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hornetsfalcons12 Sr. Hamster Analyst 1w ago
I used to try bumble. It sucked. The only women who would even try to make an approach were bottom 20% kind of women. That was a concept destined to fail.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
I'm amused at how insecure they are. To get around this "empowerment" (making the first move), they need only simply type a one word greeting such as "hi!"
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 1w ago
And that is all they did. The problem is not that they had to make the first move, the problem is that women will shoot above their league and not have the game or personality to pull it off. Bumble's solution is to reduce the effort needed from women and to make them even more passive than a "Hi!". Can't really blame them for it since that is the game they are in. The cycle will continue.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 1w ago
That's the number 1 reason they refuse to engage in proper initiation: It's a power tactic and a highly powerful at that. Other women will mercilessly shame them for breaking The Cartel. Something to consider is that nearly every woman starts a relationship with a man she hasn't even met with putting The Cartel over her future family's interests. A new man is merely an concept, like thinking of a vacation in Tokyo someday, but The Cartel Hivemind is omnipresent in their lives from childhood.
Ghosting is their main weapon. My (future) wife pulled it on me. I had to run up and "stop" her from leaving. She engaged in The Silent Treatment early on in our marriage. Once she came back the first few times, I merely viewed The Silent Treatment as a vacation (and she figured this out after the first day) and didn't bother pulling it again.
Nonetheless, OLD restores some of the balance (not all) of what old fashioned dating used to be like: A woman didn't go to a dance hall with her friends back in 1958 without men knowing she went there to meet men. Back then, there was none of this disco freestyle dancing of women in a circle dancing with each other. To dance, she'd have to accept an invitation from a man and make physical contact with him otherwise she'd sit along the wall by herself looking anti-social.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 1w ago
The problem with OLD is that women do not have to be decent human beings whereas in real life, they have to be.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
But what if she gets rejected? Can't have that...
GimmeTheUsual Jr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
Exactly.
Women never want to make the first move, this just affirms this predisposition. Someone wake me up when we stop pandering to these bints as a society.
houseoftolstoy Unchivalrous Christian 2w ago
And that's just the thing with Bumble. Even when "giving women the power" by having them be the ones to initiate, many of them apparently take that opportunity and just give out a one word greeting like "hi" or "hey." They are still expecting the men to carry on the conversation and be the doers rather than themselves. So when women give out these no effort openers, then you have to wonder what is the point of them using the app in the first place. They might as well go somewhere else, as they are just not using the one defining feature of Bumble to any real extent at all.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 1w ago
But they are. Bumble exists so that women can encourage desirable men to approach them without the hassle of having to deal with undesirable men.
houseoftolstoy Unchivalrous Christian 1w ago
That factor is not exactly unique to Bumble, as other dating apps can make it so that you only communicate when there is mutual interest from both parties (e.g. Tinder both have to right swipe). Bumble was just adding in the extra gimmick that had women being the ones who needed to start the conversation.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
The cool thing about chads they can respond with "hey" right back.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
Bumble: We're empowering women by having them make the first move.
Also Bumble: Why is our stock down 85.66% over the last 5 years?
houseoftolstoy Unchivalrous Christian 2w ago
While not completely making it so that women are only able to make the first move (as the women users have to opt in for this option), it is in essence taking away the key feature that made Bumble unique. Was this a good feature? I cannot speak from personal experience, as I never used Bumble. But it made Bumble distinct.
I really doubt this will help Bumble, as online dating in general fails to provide people with what they want, results in the form of relationships (or hookups for those playing the short term game). I see it as a combination of user expectations being too high and dating apps using a variety of deceptive techniques to keep people on the platform (e.g. numerous fake profiles to provide the illusion of having lots of options).
And when accounting for the sexes, I would see women as the more guilty party with the failure of conversion rates, as they tend to have more inflated expectations than men and refuse to compromise more often as a result. Even the least attractive women have some men messaging them with interest, and the same cannot be said for men.
In the end, I do not see things changing for Bumble, as the issues with that site are going to be there due to the very nature of online dating.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
I absolutely LOVE bumble.
But, as with all things dating, if it gives advantage to a man then it puts women at a disadvantage.
See, the act of the woman having to initiate causes her to immediately surrender all her power - she has to take an active step and express interest beyond just making herself available. Her direct action demonstrates that she finds me valuable. She no longer has the luxury of simply matching and waiting for the man to qualify himself to her.
Smooth move ladies.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
And that's why it failed. Women collectively could not handle not having a veil of plausible deniability to hide behind and wield like a social cudgel should some prospective suitor make even the smallest error in his approach.
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 1w ago
Well said.
mattyanon TRP Endorsed 2w ago
The advantage for women doing it the bumble way is that women are not inundated with messages. But they can't say that, so they pretend it's about power balance or something.
But it's sexist, so I'm amazed they've been able to do it for as long as they have.
Maturin_nj 2w ago
This company is sinking. A public company's mantra is growth. Even their woke bullshit takes a backdoor to the survival of the company. This company is dead and so is tinder. They had a decent run but they can only fake guys out for so long with their lies, bots etc. Men have stopped paying so revenues hit the crapper. Men are not ther er to provide validation. The chick's with high smv don't use this shit......farewell bumble tinder and match.....
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
There's an entire generation of men who has gone through the emotional wringer of giving validation (even by the tiniest amount) to 1000's of women by swiping right on women of all looks, including those WAY beneath him, and being rejected. On the opposite side, of course, pig-women are getting thousands of dopamine hits. It's like an evil scientific experiment.
Back in the 1980's, a guy in our friend circle decided to cold approach a hundred women to ask them on dates and got rejected by each and every one. He was devastated.
Looking back, I did something unthought of which is that I took a stand on a principle (back then, it was women paying their share on dates) and actually let otherwise good prospects slip away because I refused to compromise on it. Sometimes I even told them off. I viewed it as positive karma to spread out there but also, for myself, I felt that if I could stare them down even when they were holding their sexual access over my head like a dog treat, they couldn't manipulate me. I cared most of all about my frame (even as I didn't know what "frame" was back then.)
OLD has hit bottom.
Maturin_nj 2w ago
What your saying is you stopped all the BP shit that was the norm back then. I was there in the 80s. I know it well. Men in the northeast were the biggest BP pushovers and doormats who were trained like circus seals under the auspices of Romantic love and Chivalry. The younger guys today are punching their way out and doing a decent job of it imo.
houseoftolstoy Unchivalrous Christian 2w ago
Funny you mention that, as I can attest to this very issue of fakery and (possibly) bots for a different dating app. One of the apps that I tried (and got no good results from) was eHarmony (I cringe thinking back on that). While they have their gimmic of all the "compatability traits," they also operate on slowly presenting profiles over time rather than users being able to access all available profiles. I recall when my subscription window was ending, suddenly I got a huge spike in available profiles, saying that I am missing out on these new matches if I do not renew my subscription. It was pretty clear to me that this was just a ploy to string me along and get more money out of me and, so I most certainly did not renew my subscription.
Other dating apps/sites most certainly have fake profiles as well (eHarmony did for sure too), as padding the numbers makes it seem like it is a hopping place to meet people, which keeps those who are paying on the site longer. Those that use dating apps find out that they get similar results to what they got "in the wild." And for those that struggled to get dates offline found that online was hardly any better. And if I recall correctly, most dating apps have a skewed ratio of a lot more men than women, which makes it much harder for men when they have less options just by the numbers alone.
I did find my wife with online dating, though that was on Christian Mingle. So it is not that there is never anyone who can find long term relationships with online dating, but it has not delivered the results that many people using those apps want.
NotaBene Jr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
That reminds me of an oldie, but a goodie:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAyViQbhYgI
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2w ago
I found mine on Yahoo! Personals back in 2004.
I was talking about this just a few days ago in a different area of the site, and I know I've said this at the WAATGM subreddit many times over the years, but OLD was awesome back then. I pity the dudes who have only experienced it in the past 10 years or so, because it sounds like it really went downhill.
sean_karaya 2w ago
I hope historians will keep an accurate record of women's behavior this time so in 100 years, another "muh women were oppressed" story can't appear
No-Stress-Cat 2w ago
*Leaps forward in time 100 years. Goes to The Great Library of Knowledge. Pulls out a 12-inch-thick leather-bound book entitled "Women's Behavior Over the Last Century". Opens to the first page and reads the only passage in the entire huge volume of blank pages.*
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 2w ago
Due to my age, I never used any kind of dating app (although I met my wife through a dating service).
We all know that single women prefer a world in which the men they find attractive approach them, and the men they don’t “know their place” and refrain from approaching them. In meatspace a woman can let a man know if he’s in the first category by sending some sort of IOI (Indicator of Interest).
It seems to me that Bumble replicates that dynamic in cyberspace by allowing women to target the guys they like with an IOI in the form of a message. It doesn’t matter what the message is… in fact, it’s best if it’s the simplest message she can think of: “Hi.”
The reason is that all she’s doing is signaling that she wants to be pursued by him. Once the”Go for it” message has been delivered, it becomes his job to run with it.
Honestly I don’t know why women use anything else.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
Because their strong and empowered feelings can't even handle the incredibly indirect form of rejection that is implied by a man failing to pursue them. They apparently consider that worse than being approached by the unwashed hordes of undesirables that they clearly wish would just go back to their Morlock tunnels and keep society running at no benefit to themselves.
Yet we are supposed to regard a demographic with this sort of consistent behavior pattern as our complete equals.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2w ago
Fucker beat me to it!
@lurkerhasarisen - surely you've seen firsthand and secondhand IRL that women cannot handle rejection. They would see initiating contact on bumble and being turned down or even just ignored as rejection.
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 2w ago
I think that you and @Overkill_Engine missed my point: I’m not saying that Bumble is perfectly aligned with women’s preferences. Nothing is going to do that because no system can create an endless supply of fried ice. I’m saying that it’s the closest they can get in cyberspace.
In meatspace, a woman who makes herself appealing is doing so to attract Chad, but she runs the risk of having Billy Beta take a shot. She doesn’t want that: if Billy views her as being attainable then maybe she’s not as hot as she thinks she is. She likes the fact that a lot of men find her attractive, but she also wants non-Chads to know their place and keep their distance.
In any case, women would prefer for Chads to approach with no effort from her, while all the Billys admire from afar. In practice, though, most women know that they have to send some sort of signal. A lot of them like that, because it’s part of the “dance.” Obviously any signal can be missed, misinterpreted, or ignored, so there’s no way to play the game without some risk of rejection.
The Bumble paradigm reduces that risk to the absolute minimum. The mere fact that a man has a profile means that he’s in the market, which means that he’s actively looking for women to signal interest in him. This system allows her to make herself as appealing as possible to Chad while actively preventing Billy from approaching her.
The only thing missing is that hordes of Billys can’t give her dopamine hits because there’s no way for them to do so. I suspect that they could fix a lot of their problem by allowing men to “like” women’s profiles without being able to initiate contact. An average woman would get a ton of attention, and could choose to send IOIs to the ones she likes best… knowing that they have already indicated that they’re interested in getting IOIs from her in particular.
Anyway…
V-CARDS FOR BOTH OF YOU.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 1w ago
I made a similar observation on the other platform what you're saying: My father met my mother at a dance hall in 1958. Back then, beta billies approached women for a dance and the woman usually went for a single dance and then she'd express interest to continue or went back up to the wall with other women waiting to get picked up. I went to an over 30 singles mixer back in the early 1990's and it was the same thing: The women were all at tables waiting to be approached by the men but they sort of formed these cliques to lock the men out. I found it strange because why go to a singles event and then make themselves unavailable?
Anyhoo, in an ideal world the women would like it that way in that the men should look for her clues and let her be in charge "Only THESE men can approach me BUT he has to do all the work and chase and please her!" This worked back then in some ways because women had low body counts as in, most of them, 0. My parents were virgins when they married. My mother's shit test for my father was she gave him her name and he had to look her up in the phone book.
Chad would only respond to clues from the hottest girls and he wouldn't pursue too hard. The women worked their way down to an attainable beta who also didn't pursue too hard either. The sexual marketplace balanced out.
oowiw 2w ago
I don't think this is it because women can just swipe on the chads, billy beta can't message her if she didn't swipe on him, on any platform, not just bumble.
What's the same on all platforms is first, both people must swipe on the other. Billy beta cannot message because he cannot get the swipe in the first place.
Women match with the chads, and THEN the difference with bumble comes into play, I don't think billy beta is a factor.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
The core issue with Bumble and why it failed is that "the woman has to message first" original design meant completely bailing on any plausible deniability a woman had as a shield against rejection.
They had to signal interest in an overt manner, which unlike the subtle queues exploited by women in meatspace, could not be hand-waived away as easily- to their own egos most of all.
A man not replying to a direct and unmissable text message was clear overt disinterest/dismissal/exclusion. Unlike, say a man just not noticing a hairflip and lowered eyes within a specific split second frame of time on some poorly lit raucous dance hall floor. Which a woman can just rationalize in whatever way allows her to preserve her self image.
This lack of deniability and the downstream ego hit messes with women on a primal level just like "ghosting" does, which is why they complain so stridently whenever men adopt that tactic as well.
Risking rejection/dismissal/exclusion is ucky man work to the female psyche.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
I love the Morlock reference, because it's perfect.
The Morlocks in their tunnels are the very reason that the Eloi can live their idyllic life.
Land_of_the_losers the-niceguy.com 2w ago
HG Wells (the socialist) was making a comment on class-based society in the original novel. The Eloi had descended from the 20th century upper classes and the Morlocks descended from the lower classes. That idea sort of got lost in the cinematic depictions, and in its 1950s 'Classic Comics' adaption as well.
In the novel, the traveler also goes forward in time to see the last living things die on earth but that's not in the cinematic or comic adaptations either.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2w ago
Yeah the movie and comic formats due to the nature of the mediums involved did gloss over why those two castes existed and how they came to be, which actually makes using them as a metaphor for modern sexual stratification even more apt in my personally inflated opinion.
Modern women have been allowed to forget to be grateful to Morlock-tier men, and it will be to their eventual detriment.
Land_of_the_losers the-niceguy.com 2w ago
Your analogy does make more sense, what with sexual reproduction being the central engine of evolution.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 2w ago
Only a team of women would sit around and create a dating app that relies on women doing the one thing that they fucking hate doing the most - giving up the right of first refusal.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2w ago
Also, thinking women would say anything other than "hi"
Bumble is just plain broken. It's like tinder except that women can match you for attention and then let you expire as a way to have her cake and eat it to and there's nothing you can do about it