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Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago Stickied
Jordan Peterson....
He has a voice, an audience and a following. When he speaks, people listen. So..... what is it that he says?
In this case - he said something good. He expressed empathy for men who are having a hard time. Good job Dr Peterson.
However, in general, he is a net negative for men.
Why do I say this?
Because he encourages male responsibility but not male authority.
What is responsibility without the corresponding authority?
It is called slavery.
Conversely, what is authority without the corresponding responsibility?
It is called tyranny.
By promoting male responsibility, while also promoting female empowerment - Dr Peterson is promoting male slavery and female tyranny.
You know, just like the feminists and the tradcons.
It's all gynocentric bullshit. It's all antithetical to nature. In nature - responsibility and authority go hand in hand. It's impossible to have one without the other.
WymynZ want to be stryng and indypyndynt? Wonderful! Sooner or later, men will stop taking responsibility for them.
WymynZ cry that a rEaL mAnZ steps up and takes responsibility? Wonderful! Are we going back to a world of male authority? No? Then shut up bitches. You did this to yourselves.
Consequences are tools of the patriarchy!!!
Cheers!
redpillschool Everybody tag him 1y ago
Well said. +1
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Thank you sir.
SeasonedRP 1y ago
That perfectly describes what I've noticed about tradcons and the religious right. Whenever I hear recommendations for young men to find a religious girl, I just shake my head because they are raised to expect the conditions you describe.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
To add to that, the church is quickly becoming a refuge for reformed whores looking to have a soft landing from the carousel. A man who goes there looking for a wife without understanding that only ends up making the oldest mistake in the book: trying to make a hoe a housewife.
Hanscheezburger 1y ago
dude talks about male authority literally all the time. You just take one interview out of context and say it's his entire view
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0YCyZ8l-gQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSErYhxNLX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzZcGsnGWjw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwaLhSgi7q8
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Well, @Hanscheezburger - you seem to not understand the concept of authority. That's why you're conflating it with competence and restrained potential for violence.
Over the years, I listened to way too many hours of Jordan Peterson. This isn't a mere "out of context" misquote.
redpillschool Everybody tag him 1y ago
I can't listen to JP for too long or I forget how to speak in clear concise English. It just turns my brain to gibberish.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Yaaaaaas! Hashtag metoo!!!
I stopped listening to him years ago. I only listen occasionally these days. I listened to this interview....
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I think you have to take his words in context. He's 60 so a boomer. He clearly has emotional dysregulation from benzo addiction. He went through dealing with a chronically ill daughter. He became a woke target and nearly lost his job. He got a unicorn wife at a decently young age.
When I see old guys like this, including my dad, I think of them as manipulated men. A man can't know what he doesn't know. The entire world changed completely during their lives. They have old order thinking. It's just automatically assumed by them that the man has authority. He lives in a blue pill world where everything works just fine for him.
I never though of Peterson as the incel Messiah. I always thought of him as a clinical psychologist with a really good course on personality and some interesting things to say about human behaviour. At some point though he will get red pilled. Maybe this is that moment.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Sure, but even doing that, he's a net negative for men - which is my main point.
He has been this way for years. His fundamental beliefs and way of thinking, have hardly changed, if at all.
Sure, but he believes in the same core values as the woke mob who hates him so much.
I don't know anything about his wife or their marriage. I therefore can't really comment on this. From the one interview I saw with the two of them - I don't think she's a unicorn at all.
This is a good excuse for your dad, my dad and anyone else's dad.
However, Jordan is supposed to be a thinking individual. He can't use this excuse.
Besides, he's been exposed to red pill ideas for as long as he's been famous and made many comments over the years.
That's what I thought of my dad when I first discovered TRP almost a decade ago. However, as I learned how to convey and discuss concepts with him and others, I have seen his thinking shift as well.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago
That's the one part I disagree with you about.
He has helped a lot of men decide not to commit suicide.
That's a net positive, even though Dr. Peterson is a gynocentric bloopie.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
That's okay. I'll still give you a precious upvote lol
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I just don't understand why he is being dragged into red pill. It's like as if the feminist troll mob has run out of high profile targets so now they must resort to calling some guy who has nothing to do with it the Incel Messiah.
I would argue that he's way ahead of red pill. He's been touting self-improvement and stoicism for a long time. Even if he takes the trad-con route, he's actively discussing how we move forward from the state we're in today without completely yeeting all the lessons of the past. His clearest example is how men are hierarchical and women are communist and how that undermines society to put women into hierarchies designed for men.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Because he kind of, sort of, pushes back against "the narrative".
And because his ideas seem similar to TRP to the undiscerning eye.
That's why I made my original comment. To point out how his message is very different from TRP.
Does he though? Which tradition is he following?
Or is he merely a previous flavor of progressivism itself?
What he advocates for is male slavery and female tyranny - as explained in my original comment.
In my books, this does not constitute moving forward...
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Well, what I'm seeing from many different sources in wildly different fields is a tipping point occurred in 1965 which led to the breakdown of the family. Rollo would say it's hormonal birth control, abortion, and the sexual revolution. Some demographers would say it's a rise in felony arrests of men. Religious people will say it's secularism. Marxists will say it's capitalism. Men will say it's no-fault divorce, alimony, and child support. Women will say it's liberation from the patriarchy.
Every single one of those spells doom for families. Throw in accelerators like social media and pandemics and you get a real mess. I don't feel like a slave in my marriage but we have an understanding based on Islam and mutual respect for our masculine/feminine roles in our family.
As for Peterson commenting that Incels are a marginalized group and should be represented, he's right. It's tyrannical that they're not and it's an extremely dangerous situation. So if we want to ask what we should do about it, Peterson talks about how we can help those men who are demoralized because they are not attractive to women.
If you go to the larger issue as a society, Peterson talks about the problems with putting women into male hierarchies and all the fallout it creates. In fact it explains most of what was identified in my first paragraph. Women in gov't create welfare states, no-fault divorce, etc. Women in corporations create sexual harassment problems, sexism, go woke go brokeism, etc.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Agreed.
I think that his message to men comes from the right place - grow, develop, accept responsibility, and endure pain. These things make men great.
His problem is that he hasn't adapted to the reality of our society...women do not give a shit about any of that.
Women will break a man if he isn't aware of their nature. Giving modern women our love, protection, and honor only results in men ending up broken and desititute because there are very few, if any, voices telling women how to be what we need. (Shout-out to RealFemSapien).
The result, if we all followed his advice, is a world of men who get PLAYED and don't understand why.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
Another way of putting his gynocentric view is his stated notion that women should be the choosers. This is the exception to the rule of human civilized (and perhaps even pre-civilized history). Men chose. Even when only alphas mated, the alphas chose the women, not the other way around. That women are basically bossing men around via hypergamy to improve the human race. What we see instead with women choosing is Idiocracy: They pick thugs, "bad boys" or perhaps "pretty boys" that are lousy fathers and result in children being neglected. When they are golddiggers, they treat the providers terribly. The core essence of beta-blue-pill thinking is to be a "nice guy provider white knight" and the woman will respect and love you forever. We now see in an era of women's choices that this isn't true when women are given free will as in they can spend their money on health food or crack, they'll buy crack (most of) the time. Only via "bailouts", the welfare state, and so on can women's "equality" exist and they can make such demands. Instead of equality, they have an artificial matriarchy funded by powerful men and a self-destructing society and in a true "level playing field" sexual marketplace, women's choices would be offset by their pragmatic, 'settling", notion that men also have choices and peak value as we do here. I think he's either a bit mainstream or as others say here, purple pilled. But he does say useful things much of the time.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
In other words: that women have the authority to make the choices, while men have the responsibility to "clean their rooms"....
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
I'm sort of reminded of The Hunger Games where the peasants in the Feudal order get to compete for a lifetime of benefits taking each other out and are told that if they die, it's because they're "lazy" or "weak" while the entitled just need to show up to enjoy similar status. The harder you work, the more the goalposts are moved or bar raised.
Exodus 5:6 That same day Pharaoh gave this order to the slave drivers and overseers in charge of the people: “You are no longer to supply the people with straw for making bricks; let them go and gather their own straw. But require them to make the same number of bricks as before; don’t reduce the quota. They are lazy; that is why they are crying out, ‘Let us go and sacrifice to our God.’ Make the work harder for the people so that they keep working and pay no attention to lies.”
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
These things make men great SLAVES!
This does not come from the right place, unless you consider - male slavery under female tyranny - to be "the right place".
[deleted]
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago Stickied
You completely neglected the point regarding responsibility being commensurate with authority.
It really doesn't matter who is your tyrant. Whether it's women or someone else.
The rest of your comment is uncalled for because 1. You're stooping to getting personal. 2. You're puffing your chest.
Stop it. It's cringy.
Put away your dick and have a normal conversation like an adult. You're more than welcome to disagree with myself or any other mod. You aren't welcome to have a pissing competition here.
If you have an actual point to make, make your point. Cut away the silly drama.
Therefore, your comment is being removed.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I didn't ignore the point, I just didn't debate it because I agree that authority and responsibility are inextricably linked (or rather, they should be in order to function).
My disagreement was the dismissal of the fact that men have to do the work of becoming, and the idea that these things make men slaves is silly.
A man who doesn't do these things doesn't have the power to take charge of his life in any way.
DextroShade 1y ago
The same stupid cunts batching about "toxic masculinity" and how boys need to be taught to express their emotions are the same ones roasting him and calling him a crybaby for getting a little choked up in this interview. Yet another example of the hypocrisy of these woke shitstains.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago
Those who are familiar with my writing know I'm not a fan of Dr. Peterson. He is solidly blue pill and gynocentric.
However, he is still an overall net positive in a world that is increasingly anti-male, anti-masculinity, and anti-reality.
Much like when he said in this video that some men are so incredibly lonely, and have no idea how to be attractive to women, we also sympathize with such men and hope to help them unplug from the gynocentric matrix.
Some important information he left out: those poor dudes have been fed a lifetime of lies, and have been making decisions based on those lies and gynocentric conditioning, and that is why they're lonely, frustrated, and sometimes even angry.
If you're such a man, you are welcome here.
Initial-Glove Wahmyns 1y ago
Well he's right. Men who dont date are as much of a marginalized class as anyone else claiming marginalizing.
Its a direct result of feminism. The women are unmarriable. And men dont want to marry unmarriable women.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
If he were crying discussing women's problems, he'd be called heroic and brave. But since he's caring about men (and undesirable men no less) he's mocked.
Once again, society proves that it gives no shits about men.
AurelianWay Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
With the rise of single motherhood in the last 40 years and women dominating academia, they are the ones raising and educating these so called "incels". Peterson has some compelling stuff and I will always get a kick at the way he handled those turkeys from UofToronto. However he always seems to pull back when topics with obvious misandry are brought up.
I hope he doesn't get de-platformed but at the same time people should accept that he has a lucrative grift thanks to youtube. He also has his own personal problems that effect his credibility. IMO his relationship with his daughter makes me question his credibility even more. He is well meaning and his heart is in the right place but I take him with a grain of salt.
Hanscheezburger 1y ago
I have sympathy for the incels that want to better themselves but don't know how to
I have no sympathy for the incels that actively sabotages other men and promote the ideologies that put men in such a detrimental position
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
All incels are in a prison of their own making. Here's why:
The rules of the game are known: be hot, be fit, be rich. Two of those things are in your direct control. Nobody tells millionaires "no, I don't do that until I'm married". Nobody tells jacked muscular men "that's rude, how dare you!"
Yes, not all men are created equal, but effort beats luck every fucking day and if you don't do the work, you don't get to bitch when you lose.
StatisticsJason 1y ago
I don't see any difference between you and today's women. You have the same exact anger and disgust towards incels as they do, perhaps even more.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I'll explain.
Women don't hate incels. Women don't even see them as people. That's the first difference.
My anger isn't at them as men. My anger is at their wasted potential, at them being a prisoner who holds the key to their own cell.
I have a question for you though: what specifically did I say that implies that I have "disgust" towards these men?
I think you're just trying to be edgy and you're coming off retarded.
StatisticsJason 1y ago
I'm not trying to be edgy, that's the sincere impression I get. It's your whole tone towards incels. You make the three things men need to do to attract women seem easier than they are. For example, The rich have always been a small minority of the population and a large percentage of them are born into it. Plenty of people can have ambitious ideas and still fail. A healthy, functioning society does not make men go through difficult hoops just to attract an average mate. Maybe you agree this isn't a healthy society, well then it's women who are at fault for being too selective. The incels are the victims because if given a chance many would be superb husbands and fathers and our entire society would greatly improve.
Another point I'd like to make is if every man tried to be an alpha the threshold would just get higher. That has happened in one of your three things a man must do to attract women...be fit. I'm older than most of you (not a boomer) and recall when most men were not muscular but still easily found girlfriends. I had one buff friend and the girls went crazy for him. They would literally stop him just to admire his muscles. That same guy today would be invisible because he is a dime a dozen. The threshold keeps getting higher.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago
They're known to men like you or me.
Trying to get some of these dudes to even see these rules that line up with their own experiences can be ridiculously difficult, thanks to how strong their gynocentric conditioning is.
You've seen some of the conversations I've had on the public square and other tribes at the trp.red side of this site. Some guys just can't/won't bring themselves to fully unplug and stop believing that women are magical creatures of pure goodness who fart rainbows and shit diamonds, or accept that men and women are not the same and men must become while women just are.
So to add to and correct your line about them being "in a prison of their own making": the prison is made by our gynocentric soyciety, but due to their state of learned helplessness these men refuse to exit even when men like us hold the door open for them.
(I'm pre-coffee, so I hope this was clear. I might edit for clarity later.)
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Editing for clarity is a thing I do often, so I totally understand.
And yes, you're right. Most of my interactions are akin to that scene from Invincible where Omni-man is standing over his beaten and bloodied son screaming "THINK!"
Part of my rage is rooted in the fact that I can't make them see the evidence in front of their own eyes - their actions (or inaction) is directly producing the outcomes they're getting and if they just did something different, it would change.
The gynocentric programming is so damn powerful.
vvolfgang 1y ago
Remind me what’s rule 1? Something about not being emotional?
I like Peterson, he’s a good man but holy shit does he makes himself look like a bitch. God bless him. The dichotomy of his daughter relating to him vs her relating to Andrew Tate shows the way in our dysfunctional age, the male archetypes have had a schism. Peterson is the good and wise father. In a sane age, he would also have authority backed by society, and wouldn’t be so prone to tears. Then we have Tate, a badass fighter, decent guy, but also actually pimps out women. Or did. So I’m split on him too. But Peterson’s daughter puts him thru the ringer but goes and fucks Tate. This is so archetypal my guys. In a sane world, Tate and Peterson would be fused into the ideal of the benevolent alpha. But now we have two guys who are decent but distasteful for opposite reasons. I like them both and the culture needs them both but they have inverse flaws.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 1y ago
Our forum's rule 1: no shaming men for any reason.
Check out the rules on our sidebar. They're a large part of what makes our community unique among Red Pill communities.
If you're on mobile (like me), you can see the sidebar by hitting that little menu button which looks like a card that's black on the left and white on the right near the top right corner of the page.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Rule 1 (no shaming men) is a good rule to carry in your pocket in real life.
One of these days, go about your day thinking about rule 1. You will be enraged by the end of that day.