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cosmicbuffalo 9mo ago
“I always expected it would just happen”
That phrase seems to appear, in some form or fashion, in every one of these posts. Either no one told them (or they weren’t smart enough to figure out) that an actual long-term relationship takes effort from both sides. There’s no doubt that there was effort from the other side early on (as is ALWAYS the case), which leaves only one party responsible.
The obliviousness astounds me. These posts should be mandatory reading for all 18 year olds - men and women.
Men: So they understand the mindset of many of these women and can avoid them/Don’t go insane playing the game. Just play the long game and increase their value.
Women: So they can take the warning that they need to have a plan in life that they’ll not regret when they’re 50.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Women...
They'll do the work for their education. They'll do the work for their careers.
When it comes to men though, they think that shit is just magically supposed to work out the way that they want it to. Dumb.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
That's precisely an observation I was toying with recently as well. They're happy to bust their hump to please their boss, their women "friends", whatever the chatter TV box says they are supposed to want, and so on, but men are supposed to be these magical sugar daddy superheroes who also provide them with tingly entertainment without any needs of our own other than sex and THEN, they want men to somehow want to give them all that without "really" wanting sex but rather because they're so special and wonderful.
So young men lie to them and pretend to really love them for their vapid personality to get them into the sack or humor them along or just keep their mouths shut and they buy into this delusion of men as magic validation servants.
PoopBeast Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
"People were more serious about marriage back then and there was no push to have everything figured out before marriage"
Gotta love this one. It's not "people" who have changed here, It's women. Women were more serious about marriage back then. Back then it was aspirational to marry and start a family. Embarrassing if you hadn't done so well before your ability to concieve as a woman had become questionable. This social pressure caused a woman to get off her ass and do something, however slight and non-committed to make it happen. Women back then would literally drop things like their handkerchiefs in front of a man they wanted to talk to. Sure, it sounds silly, but at least it was something. The best they can do now to get a man is to hop onto a tiktok fad, and wander around Home Depot for a while hoping a [home owning/"financially attractive"] man chats them up for absolutely no reason.
Men haven't changed a whole lot in this domain. We're like the cockroach, or the crocodile. We've barely evolved when it comes to romantic desires/goals.
It just amazes me; any societal issue mainly caused by women gets to be abstracted away as "people" being responsible, or the "changing of the times".
sean_karaya Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Woman, you are playing a secondary school mistress everywhere. If you want a relationship then you need to learn from it, instead of grading men on it.
How?
A man who has established everything without you does not need you as a girlfriend for your knowledge/ experience. I heard a dumbf*luck tell me that she'd be great girlfriend because she can choose and pack gifts for the guys family and friends and he doesn't have to "lift a finger" - that's her contribution...
I can't even start ....
But in any case, what role can you offer as a girlfriend/wife that the established man can't buy in open market for a better price/performance ratio?
The only thing that really makes a difference for such a man is intimate life with a really attractive woman ..
The fault isn't in man, the fault is in women who advices you. So go deal with them.
And finally repeat 100000000 times:
Men don't owe you anything, much less a relationship
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
This is exactly where feminism lost their battle and they still don't realize it. They severely overestimated the value / difficulty of their own work, while severely underestimating the value / difficulty of men's work (since we don't bitch about it all the time).
So when feminists said being a housewife and a mother is so difficult, while a man busting his hump at work had it easy, we basically called their bluff. Now, women understand exactly how soul-draining, tiring, and stressful a job can be ("where are my 2 hour cocktail lunches like those dudes on Mad Men got? Whaddya mean I need to work twice as much to get a 5% raise?"). Meanwhile, they told guys they would refuse to marry them if they expected them to do the house work, but instead of caving to their demands, we simply shrugged and did it ourselves. Now, most men I know can cook better than the average women (and do it after working all day, while women bitched about having to cook while being at home all day), pay 50 bucks every few weeks for a maid who can clean the house better than most wives do (and do it without complaining), and spend 10 minutes doing their own laundry and dishes.
And so when women who've been in the working world for a few years and now want to become a tradwife, guys say "yeah, 50 years ago, being able to cook and clean was enough to make you a good wife. Now that I can do that myself, you need to up your game. What else you got?" And the truth is, most women these days have nothing else.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
I'm thinking of this paradigm of the "strong successful independent woman (tm)" that goes that women don't "owe" us anything and they want a man who makes their lives better. "Step it up, boys and MAN UP!"
Then as they hit their 40s, they are frustrated that the men they desire largely feel the same way about them: He has this thing called a dishwasher and washing machine. He can vacuum his own floors every few weeks. Quite frankly, the worst pig sties I ever witnessed were single women's apartments.
They say "You can't give me any backtalk! I'm boss babe!" but yet that's precisely what they try to pull on ACTUAL bosses such as alpha males who handle dozens of men daily and think he's supposed to put up with it from her as a "challenge". She doesn't "need" a man to pay her bills BUT she can't handle a relationship where a man tells her that she's going to pay for her own dinner and movie tickets.
This outright hypocrisy and BS was common back in the early 1970's and 1980's due to a perfect storm of cultural metrics: Tons of older baby boomer men with good incomes, a few Gen X women with affirmative action careers, and jobs overall were still plentiful and housing was cheap. "The happy times" for feminism was about one single generation: 1970 to 1990. It stank after that for a generation and now we have this mess where men wearing dresses doesn't matter in that single modern women are so masculine (in a bad way).
Back in 1997, I matched a 33 y/o plump manager of Denny's. She gave me massive shit tests and we consummated on the 2nd date. We went to church and at breakfast she mentioned she wanted to "sacrifice her career" and be a trad wife (didn't use that lingo). She wanted a big home, luxury car (those terms exactly), and quote, a $10,000 diamond engagement ring.
I just laughed.
She looked at me befuddled: "You mean you don't want to be a Real Man and support a woman to have a family and properly take care of your kids?" I said I wasn't into that. I expected such a woman (I stated in the third person, not her) to EARN A LIVING and spend money frugally and if she wanted to buy all that nonsense, she could pay for it herself.
She got this crazy look in her eyes, lit up a cigarette (I didn't know she smoked), pulled out a bottle of whiskey, and started to tell me she was bi-polar and mean.
I ran for the hills. I went to my apartment, sent all my calls to voicemail. She called me drunk and left a voicemail threatening to kill my cat and slash my tires. A few hours later she had a friend leave a voicemail to call him and he said she'd leave me alone if I didn't call the police.
I had hoped that these woman back, gosh, 27 years ago? would have wised up by now. Maybe taught the younger generation to not make a similar mistake?
wswZtyqNGQ 9mo ago
Amazon charges $5 per gift for the wrapping. So she's adding $100 of revenue per year to the relationship while costing 50% plus of his lifetime wealth. What a bargain!
JudgeSmales 9mo ago
Her hamster is working overtime, but the eventual outcome is set. If she's 260 pounds, she's going to end up alone. The larger a woman gets, the more invisible she becomes.
oowiw Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
260lbs, 39, scarred face
Yeah, fair enough - that is a conundrum. We can only control and expand our preferences so much - it's entirely plausible that she'd be happier single, than with the guys she could get commitment from. However, she thinks that if she can just get past that initial hurdle, and get a date with a guy she's attracted to, then she can hook him:
She's of the mindset that her competition can't or won't offer the same things... Which I assume are emotional support, wisdom, and sloppy toppy.
It's convenient to rationalize that people with exterior qualities lack interior qualities, it feels "just" for the world to work like that, it's a seductive cope.
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
In my bluepill days, before I started attracting hot women, I used to believe this too. That "ugly" chicks were always beautiful inside, while beautiful women were secretly ugly inside. And then I started hanging out with beautiful women and realized, no, there's a spectrum of personalities just like the ugly women had. There are ugly women who are also stupid/mean/superficial, and there are beautiful women who are sweet/kind/looking for something deeper than money and looks. Maybe the distributions are slightly different, but there's still definitely a spectrum.
So yeah, even if this fat, acne-scarred woman had a heart of gold, so what? There are plenty of hot women who have a big heart, if not bigger, and as a man I'd rather improve myself and snag one of those than resign myself to "settling".
It's definitely a cope and the truth is, even if she was right and all hot women are superficial bitches while she has an amazing personality to offer, why not also improve your appearance (by losing the weight) and make yourself the whole package so you can get an even better guy than you can right now? IOW, the drive to improve yourself should come from within. Even if you've better than the competition, why not continue to improve?
oowiw Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
mustangfrank1 Sr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Stated well with just 4 comments. But her hamster will not allow her to see the truth. Again, it is all men's fault for not seeing the beauty she is, or it is just bad luck she didn't land a man that was good enough for her.
No accountability on her part. Things just happen or don't. She has no control of her life. Boo Hoo WAATGM?
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
I'm amused that nobody pointed out the one requirement that stood out to me: Ahem, "Not eligible for the senior discount at IHOP".
I'll admit: I qualify for that discount and it's 55+. She's 39 so that age doesn't seem like geezer territory considering her situation. I chuckle when I read the entitlement princesses griping about men who use coupons on dates. My little sister's head exploded when I told her I split plates with my (future) wife on sit down dates. My wife didn't mind (to her credit) because we could finish the food and it was "cozy".
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
I haven't set foot in an IHOP for decades even though there's one within walking distance. I can see how travelers would go there for a decent meal but why would anyone else? I was sure they would go out of business during the pandemic so I'd check the parking lot and it would be packed. I didn't understand so I poked my head in to see nothing but Boomers! Now it all makes sense: senior discount. Anyway it takes me like 5min to make a waffle and I get real maple syrup so never going there again.
There was an article a while back about how places like AppleBees are going out of business because Millenials and Zoomers aren't following the patterns of Boomers. They're eating at home and eating more healthy foods. My wife got a $100 gift card to AppleBees so I went and got a menu to see how we could maximize our dollars. $16 for a burger? Nope! $17 for pasta? Nope! $21 8oz top sirloin? Nope! The only thing on the menu that justifies paying extra to have someone else do is the baby back ribs. Like they don't even have anything cool or interesting or unique at all. It's strictly fatty Boomer food.
Not only are these legacy restaurants unhealthy and overpriced, they have nothing on offer that's better than what you can cook at home. And at a time when each generation has less than their parents it's not looking good for them either. Younger people simply can't afford to eat out. Not even McDonalds is affordable.
No-Stress-Cat 9mo ago
In other words, she can't be bothered to put in the work to get thin so men would find her attractive, so she expects a guy to no only accept her in all her glorious lardliness, but also make her go to the gym and get skinny. Talk about putting the cart before the horse.
Oddest-One-Here Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
And even if she finds a man who will do all that and she gets thin, odds are she will feel that she can do better now and dump him.
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 9mo ago
There’s an IHOP within walking distance of my house. My wife and I go there very infrequently because 1) although we’re in an enviable financial position, IHOP is ridiculously expensive, 2) the portion sizes are enormous and I can easily exceed my entire daily caloric intake in 15 minutes. We either split a single meal between us, or get take-home boxes.
GimmeTheUsual Sr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
No kidding.
Its easy to go 1 - 2K plus cals on any kind of chain restaurant food. I'm on a regimen now, I cycle into that when I notice I've slacked off too much, and its dead easy to make something that has what you need and is tasty without the heat-up-the-frozen-shit-in-the-microwave that most of the chain spots do now. (Applebees, etc..)
I honestly don't think someone should imbibe 2.5K cals in one sitting unless they're really working hard, which most aren't, so they plump up.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
I get coupons in the mail (I had to ask my postman to give me all the "junk mail"). We also don't go to sit-down restaurants frequently in that we have nicer food at home. One of my favorite stories: About 15 years ago, my wife has a spoiled Persian friend who wanted to go to IHOP Sunday morning. I told them that was like nuclear apocalypse time to hit IHOP but she insisted. We get there and there's a HUGE line. After waiting, we get in and there's this harried waiter and the Persian princess asks him: "Are your strawberries fresh?"
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 9mo ago
I’ll give her props for two things: she isn’t one of those “Cafeteria Catholics” who dates outside of her religion, and she admits that at least some of the fault lies with her.
But that’s about as far as I’ll go.
She understands that her gross tonnage is going to drastically reduce her options, and her age is the other big issue. She can’t do anything about her age, but she can make significant headway with her weight if she really wants to. Even then, though, she is a middle-aged woman who is super-morbidly obese, and the required change in lifestyle would take years and has a very low long term success rate. Unless she’s a giant (and she would have said so if that were true), her waist measurement may be comparable to her height. At that level, even naked she would barely be recognizable as female. No middle aged man who is fit would be attracted to her unless he had a fetish (and guys with fat fetishes are absolutely spoiled for choice in the US).
She knows that she torpedoed herself by waiting as long as she has, and the double whammy is that serious Catholic men generally want children, which she will almost certainly be unable to produce. Finding a financially solvent, never married, devout Catholic man in good shape is like seeing Bigfoot riding a unicorn holding a leprechaun. A guy like that could pull tail in a nunnery… why would he pick her?
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
I chuckled when she says she wouldn't want Newman from Seinfeld. My wife LOVES Newman (I know, that doesn't help with my self-esteem) but seriously: The guy has a government job. What's not to love for someone in her situation? I found this one intriguing because as I read her story and initially found myself feeling sympathy for her, she revealed that she deserved her spot in Dante's Inferno with the rest of them. She has an entitlement attitude that's bit her in her big dupa. Newman has better prospects.
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
She doesn't want to marry Newman because -- based on her weight -- they'd look like twins in the wedding photographs.
chunky 9mo ago
I love the word dupa! I haven't heard it in years!
JudgeSmales 9mo ago
I also began to feel sorry for her, and was debating whether to comment at all (why punch down?). But then her attitude kicked in. I don't think she's entitled to feel ick toward anyone.
No-Stress-Cat 9mo ago
She reminds me of this girl in junior high school my girlfriend used to hang around. She was FAT, and had very bad acne on every spot of skin that wasn't covered with a beard and mustache. She would grin with her rotted teeth and touch me and say, "Oooo...sweetheart." My girlfriend would laugh thinking it was funny, all it did for me was make my skin crawl. But I was polite to her. Because I was a nice guy.
Now I'm all traumatized again. Time to hit up the therapist. Maybe she can...take my mind off of Fiona the Bearded Goat Lady.
GimmeTheUsual Sr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Ugh. The smell.
There's a goddamn stink that comes off the super fat that I don't want to contemplate too deeply on why, but if you have ever smelled it, you know it instantly. Its nearly as bad as looking at them, really.
RedBarbell 9mo ago
ahahahahaha im sorry that happened to you bro
sean_karaya Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
I have a question. Since this is a question, this will not be fit for the WATGMA forum, where you need to post essays. The question is directly related to this post.
TLDR: Why do older married women from immigrant cultures who got married early before 30 give bad advice like "Date around, don't get serious" to their daughters, and try to foist the value of spent specimens to their sons?
Detailed Observation : #1
I actually observed similar effects amongst Indian (spec. Bengali) immigrant families.
Aunt that is in a happy marriage. She got married to her college sweetheart at 24. But she advises her niece that she should not try to marry early.
The advice is often accompanied by filler statements, like "look at me", "look, look" and such. The aunt puts significant attempt to captivate the nieces thought process by forcing her to focus on the aunt and her body language. Then she speaks a gospel that the niece should not worry about getting serious, with a very assertive tone, and associated handwaving that the niece's doubts aren't important.
Question
Why is that? What can a happily married aunt possibly gain from it?
Detailed observation : #2
Again, Bengali families.
Mother is also a woman who got married at 26, with a father also at 26, after courting each other for 5 years. Son is now at 38. He has been alone all his life, the proverbial Incel. Now that he is professionally settled, he has no need or motivation to marry.
Son tells mother his position in no ambiguous terms, that since no was with him in his building phase, he does not consider any woman worthy of marriage after he has built himself.
Mother to son: "But now you have maturity! Now you can Marry a mature woman! You can experience MAtUrE lOvE ! Isn't that great? "
Again, the body language is worth noting. It is usually a mixture of serpentine smile [ * ] followed by the sort of eye-size-increasing, and eyelid patting and finger shaking and other sort of attention drawing that you see primary school teachers do when she's pasting a smiley in a students work book, and at the same time trying to send a subliminal message to the pupil that she's some sort of a generous goddess. I hope I managed to articulate what I wish to convey. [I do not know of a word to articulate this kind of body language. so if you know a term, please I'D love to learn it]
Anyway, the mother would do all these things almost to overload the son's senses. This is almost like a subconscious attempt to block the Son's ability to calm and think in solitude. To me it looks like she wants to invade the Son's mental space of thinking with all these additional overly theatrical body language.
Question
Why would a mother try to foist a "Mature Love" to her own son? The mother herself doesn't fit in the profile she's selling.
Disclaimer: For own side, I am on the spectrum, for the other, I have been trained to recall and describe body language. So I notice a lot of detail in the speakers body language which may or may not be relevant - but I see such things.
[ * ] Serpentine smile: When I was in the University, I used to babysit a lot (yes, even as a man) - several of my professors had kids, and they all loved me, they all enjoyed climbing up my shoulders. So the wives of the professors would just ask me to babysit them. Here, I observed a lot of interesting things. The sons would play with their lego with a lot of attention, usually to impress me with their creation. The daughters would often wait in ambush, and just before the moment the son is bringing his construction to show to me, the daughter would steal a piece (inevitably causing the creation to fall apart) and bring me the piece. The son would be unhappy and express his grievance to me, and the daughter would break into an angelic smile. You know the type of smile you see in social media when some young girl sees a puppy and declares it "OMG SOO CUTE PUPPY" or something like that? You know the smile that follows such declarations? The daughter would show exactly such a smile after taking away a piece from her brother's creation.
I saw this many many many times. 99% of the siblings i babysat, the daughters show this sort of behavior. I call this a serpentine smile.
Tangent: I usually solved the issue, by rebuilding everything with the young man. And he would often enjoy the action of having another dude being with him building something and forget her sisters treacherous nature.
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
Thanks for tagging me @Typo-MAGAshiv. I'm not sure I'm an expert on Indian psychology :-) but regardless, I think this one is pretty easy and isn't even tied to Indians per se.
Re: Aunt #1. This goes to something lots of us have said before: the women of our grandmother's age, or before then, weren't saints. They were women with the same desires to slut it up as modern women. What was different was that social norms and restrictions suppressed that desire and forced them to choose the long-term happiness of a stable marriage to a good man vs. the short-term happiness of fucking a Chad. That Aunt wishes she could have had a slutty phase like all the girls now are having, so that's what she tells her niece, especially because she has no idea of the consequences if her niece ends up a decade older and unmarried and now can't find any good men to marry her.
I'm not sure how old this Aunt is, but her husband better watch out: he's at high risk of being divorce raped. Because it's clear that this Aunt does not believe that the deal she took -- stable marriage to her college sweetheart -- was better than the one she's advising her niece to take -- fuck around for 10 years, then stick the landing and marry an Alpha Bucks. Even though that advice is false (chance of snagging an Alpha Bucks when you're 10 years older is much less), she believes it. And I bet she believes it enough that -- now that she's in a country where divorce is no big deal -- she'll detonate her marriage to have that slutty phase while she's still young enough to snag another Alpha Bucks afterwards (or at least, that will be her plan; cue the shocked pikachu face when she divorces, and realizes even the slutty phase is not as fun when you're an aging single mother, and the men willing to re-marry you when you're ready are nowhere near as good as the man you left).
Re: mother #2: You have to realize 2 things: First, that son has to carry on the family name, so he has to get married regardless of whether he wants to or not. The mother views it as incomprehensible that a son would do this to his family by basically ending their line by choice. So of course she wants him to get married. It's his family duty.
Second, her advice to marry a mature woman is mental jujitsu. The son is making it clear that he's not interested in having a woman in his life for the usual reasons (sex, companionship, etc). So trying to convince him to marry a hot young woman isn't going to work: he's already decided he's not interested in what such a woman could offer. So instead, she's trying to convince him about other traits that might make a woman useful. If he doesn't want to share his accomplishments with a young girl who would just leech off him, then why not a mature woman who also has accomplishments? If he's not turned on by the thought of having a young, tight body in his bed every night, then maybe he might be interested in a more intellectual pairing of equals?
You have to realize her #1 goal here (especially now that the guy is established) is for her son to get married and have children. If he's carrying a grudge about all the hot young women that rejected him in his earlier years, fine. Maybe she can convince him about the benefits of an older, accomplished woman. Trust me, I'm sure she tried to get him to marry a young girl for years, when he was younger, and for whatever reason, it didn't happen. And even now, if he came to her and said "now that I'm established I want to find a wife that I can start a family" she'll be happy to recommend younger women. But that's not what he's saying, and this is her attempt to throw everything at the wall and see if anything sticks.
sean_karaya Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Hi good points, but just to understand..
The son can go to a conference. I can fly him to a conference and he can have all pairings he wants. Why would the mother think a marriage would be necessary for this?
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
Children. She doesn't care about the actual pairing of the intellects. What they do during their private time as a couple, whether it's fucking like bunnies, discussing Plato over some wine, or, frankly, whipping each other in a dom/sub fetish dungeon, she does not care about. If he fucks around at a conference, or has a bunch of one night stands picking up women at a bar, that might satisfy him, but it doesn't satisfy her because there are no children or LTR in that picture.
What she cares about is that they procreate and give her some grandchildren. So if he's not into a hot young woman to wife up, then she'll propose something else. As long as she's a woman with a functioning womb, she's fine. Yes, in general, she cares about her son's happiness. But she can't fathom how he would be happy as a bachelor all his life. So she's trying to find someone that he might be convinced would be worthwhile to marry and have kids with.
FWIW, there is some truth to the mother's point. Just like women can get exceedingly lonely in their later years when they have no one for companionship or to take care of them when the inevitable challenges of old age start to appear, it's the same for men. The only difference is that men start out lonely so they adapt to it better, but it doesn't mean being an old man in a nursing home with no one to take care of them or even relate to is all that great either. Yes, we handle it better than women, but that doesn't mean much. Even men who get divorced and never re-marry can be better off (not always, but often). If they have kids and they have a good relationship with those kids, then even that's better than having no one when you're older.
Believe it or not, most of the mods and regular posters here are married, happily so (including myself). This is not a MGTOW site (although they're welcome to be here and contribute their POV). There is a benefit to being married, as long as you find the right woman, and that's really hard these days but not impossible.
So her point is: okay, if you don't want to share what you've already built with some young woman who hasn't built anything herself, because you still harbor this grudge that such young woman weren't around when you had nothing and were just starting out, fine. I'm sure she tried to convince him otherwise for years, but it went nowhere and so she accepts that her son isn't going to get over that. So she's saying, why not pick a woman who's older and has built something herself? There are tons of career women who delayed marriage for years and built something themselves, like a nice career, maybe some savings, a house, etc. Then he can experience "mature love" which I interpret as the love between two older adults who have both progressed beyond the initial stages of young adulthood. That way, it's not some woman trying to piggyback on what he's built, but rather two adults who've each built something who are now bringing equal "stuff" to the table.
FWIW, this is why, although I empathize with MGTOW folks, I didn't follow that path. If someone sincerely has no interest in the benefits of marriage, then great, don't get married. Lead your life whichever way you choose. But that's not what this son is saying. At least based on the very little info you've given us, it seems that he's not automatically dismissing the benefits of marriage. He's just saying that he doesn't want to share what he's already built with someone who wasn't there from the beginning.
I understand his feelings of anger and resentment, and right now, when the memories of his decades-long slog to build something are still fresh, that resentment that no one was there for him can be front and center. But so what? He's not punishing young woman by "denying" them the benefit of his companionship. They'll just go find someone else and barely know who he is. All he's doing is hurting himself further (assuming he actually does want to the benefits of marriage).
Revenge is often a stupid pursuit even if it's against a specific person who wronged you. It's absolutely delusional if it's against some general group of people who don't even know who the hell you are. You will spend your life consumed by your pursuit of revenge and in the end will have nothing else (and have failed at getting that revenge), while the people you think you're going after don't even know you exist. That's the path he's going down.
Assuming he would actually like to have kids, a family, long-term companionship, or whatever benefits of marriage he wants, the best path is to move forward. The women who ignored him in his past, are in his past. They don't matter now. Don't wish harm on them. Don't wish anything on them. Just move on. Next them and eject them from living in your head rent free.
Instead, focus on what you want moving forward. You've now built something. Great! Don't dwell on who wronged you in that process, how hard it was, etc. Just be happy that in the end you won by accomplishing your goals. So what do you want next? If it's kids, an LTR with a good woman, etc. then recognize that you will have to share what you've built. Don't be resentful of that. Rather, leverage what you've built to get the best woman you can possibly get (however you define best).
FWIW, I speak from experience. When I first got into my very lucrative (and sexy, if I may add :-) career, and all these hot women were now interested in me and flirting with me, I felt the same way. "Where were you in high school when I had glasses and was dismissed as a nerd?" I didn't want a gold digger, and in my eyes, they were all gold diggers if they weren't willing to date me when I had nothing.
But here's the flaw in my thinking: none of the women I was now meeting knew me in high school. Sure, it would have been nice to find someone in high school, but that didn't happen. And refusing to date these new girls wasn't "getting back" at the girls that didn't date me in high school. I wasn't even in touch with those girls so how would they even know that I'm now a catch who was getting girls far better than they ever were? Refusing to date the women who were now approaching me was just hurting myself and these girls. Not the ones that "wronged" me.
So I let bygones be bygones. I still didn't want a gold digger, so I spent some time not seriously dating because I didn't trust my ability to ferret out the non-gold diggers. But eventually you acquire those skills, and start to see that yes, there are actually women who can see beyond your superficial stuff and love you for you. They might not have been there at the start, but they're willing to be there from now and help you continue to build your life. Maybe my career got my foot in their door, so that they didn't immediately dismiss me. But eventually they got to know me and that became the most important part of their attraction. Sure, they still love the fact that I make enough to provide a great life for both of us, but they're also okay when I say I'm getting tired and maybe I want to cut back.
It's sort of like physical beauty in a woman. Late bloomers often say the same thing about guys: where were you before I finally hit puberty and grew out my tits? And they're suspicious that that's all that guys want from them now. But as guys we know that sure, their beauty might have made us notice them, but if we don't develop an attraction to who they are as a person, then it's not going to last. And in a perfect world, they eventually find a guy who, while enjoying her physical beauty (whether it's sex, or just the ego boost of having amazing arm candy when you walk into a party), loves her even more for what she is.
It sounds like a fairy tale, but it's not. It doesn't happen every time, but it does happen, often enough that it's worth doing the hard work to try to obtain it. At least that's why I'm not MGTOW :-)
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
This comic puts the sentiment pretty well about late bloomers: https://foxfordcomics.com/comic/weighting-for-love/
I'm reminded of a funny story about a Twilight actor who had a groupie stalking him so he decided to get rid of her by taking her out to dinner and whining about all his problems. She never bothered him again. I think this is how many attractive men "dump" girlfriends they don't want anymore: They stop making any "effort" and the shallow women walk.
Women have a zillion shit tests for men, most of them arbitrary or silly, but women largely reveal their selfishness if you just observe them since shallow women generally lack introspection which is required for long term manipulation.
I got married because I accepted women for who they were and decided to get the best one I could knowing what I know. Both of us are well aware we "could have done better" but in the end, we stuck with each other and that's what matters. I love my little girl and that means I have to figure out a way to work things out with her mother and the feeling appears mutual.
sean_karaya Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Because, her "building" doesnt really add anything to the sons life ... ?
That is why I am wondering, how can a mother be so callous to her son? [Not that my mother is any better, but she does not talk that much, because she knows i'd just leave]
If they knew you in high school, would they behave any different? If I was in your place, i'd wonder whether you can verify how they'd have behaved.
Thus I dont really think it'd be flawed reasoning to lump the new women in the same box - there is certainly the risk of false positives, but I dont think that would be a flawed idea.
But everyone for himself.
Good for you i guess
And? The guys are interested in what she fundamentally is, and that fundamental being becomes apparent during puberty. Not sure if that is a good parallel to the buddy here.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
"That is why I am wondering, how can a mother be so callous to her son?"
I'll answer that: I realized that my mother gave my brother and I advice about women that suited women's interests, not men's, just as when she dated my father, she saw men as opponents for her to maximize her benefits from. This is a combination of feminism and chivalrous entitlement.
They see fathers as sugar daddies, men they date as someone to get free meals from or to "marry up" and get him to support her (ATM machine), and this worldview of men they stick on their son. Fathers sometimes make a similar mistake in that they told me they were training their daughter to be meal whores or corporate nuns because that's what they dated so they think that's "normal".
My aunt mocked my wife as a "green card whore" in that I have an actual traditional relationship while she was the privileged housewife 1950's type. All three of her sons who married American women wound up getting divorced. She has no personal reflection that she had misguided them.
I think of it this way: Modern women don't date "men", they date objects that exist to satisfy those that matter in their lives: their cherished friends and family, the TV box that tells them what they should want, and their desire to be perceived in public as a "cool girl". They don't know who any individual "man" is so it's easy to dispose of him. She had perhaps dated dozens of men on dinner dates and discarded them hence they are meaningless but her friends/family/TV?
Those are CONSTANTS in her life. They have MEANING. A future man she dates doesn't.
sean_karaya Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
so the takeaway is, sisterhood is above a mother's own progeny......
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
I wouldn't make it sound so evil.
I think the mother is giving what she genuinely thinks is the best advice. It's just that her worldview is very different than her son's.
First, in her worldview, nothing is more important than getting married and having kids. So that's why she's giving her advice. Her son, having grown up in a completely different country (I'm assuming they're immigrants to the US or UK or something) and a completely different time (even if they're still in India, times have changed in the past 30-40 years), has different values.
Secondly, regarding finding a woman, again, I think her advice is meant to be genuine, but it's from a different era. In her time, the main thing a woman looked for in a potential suitor was his financial stability, because women couldn't have their own careers, and depended entirely on her husband for her security. Men knew this, and were okay with that deal because there was no divorce, the girls they were pursuing were largely virgins and not coming off some cock carousel, etc.
His Mom thinks this deal still holds. So if her son is now financially well off, he should be able to get a "great wife" by playing up his financial prospects. Unfortunately, the dating market has changed. There aren't that many "great wives". Many women now pursue tons of guys for a few decades before "settling down", divorce rape is a real risk, and even without divorce, women who ride the CC do not make good lifelong partners. So finding a woman who's interested in you for your financial security is a bad move now, whereas it was fine in the past (mainly because you could take the rest of it for granted: the woman would stay with you, raise the children properly, not cheat or divorce you, etc. Now, you have to vet all of those things first, before even deciding whether she's worth sharing what you've built up).
So IMHO, it's not that the Mom is deliberately selling her own son out to some abstract feminist movement. Heck, she probably doesn't consider herself a feminist, and looks down on "sluts" as much as her son does. It's just that the son's values are not the same as his mom's and the dating marketplace has changed in ways she doesn't comprehend. That makes her advice bad and probably not something he should follow, but I don't think it's so deliberately thought out as sacrificing her own son to the sisterhood.
Impressive-Cricket-8 Founding member of FapGPT 9mo ago
Those are some interesting observations. While I have no diploma in psychology, anthropology, or such, I'll give it a stab.
In observation #1, the mother is trying to live through her kids. It's quite sad to see a parent using the kid for self-fulfillment, but it happens more often than we realise. For this mother, living the slut life is the youthfulness she was robbed of (and of course she would eventually settle with a nice AlphaBucks, she has a magical vagina), and she regrets not having done so. So, her advice is "don't care too much about getting a good husband now - you can do that later. If you marry without having a hoe phase, you'll regret it. Look at me!"
As for case #2, it could be a mix of "I want grandkids, and it's your job to provide them for me" and societal expectations - as in "the sons of every one of my friends are all married - why can't you get married so I can fit in better?". So, yes, the son is not a whole person, but a mere instrument to appease the mother's wishes.
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 9mo ago
Tag @ogrilla99
This seems more up your alley.
jaimebolton 9mo ago
Serpentine smile is basically devilish. They are creating a good image at the expense of someone else. The sister at the expense of the brother and mom at the expense of the son.
And your description of mom's body language is spot on. She is building a better beta and hence has the body similar to a school teacher with her kids. She is trying to gain brownie points in society while sacrificing her son to the gynocentric social order.
sean_karaya Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
While speaking to his son in private ?
This is not just the case, where only her nephew (myself) is present.
In fact, according to her son, similar event occurs regularly even at a fully private setting.
How does it make sense to the mother to seek social brownie points in a fully private setting? Such a mother is very confusing to me. (Not that my own mother is much better)
Impressive-Cricket-8 Founding member of FapGPT 9mo ago
And there's where it all went wrong.
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 9mo ago
People don’t plan to fail. They fail to plan.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
She has allowed her reach to exceed her grasp, except when it comes to the buffet table apparently.
She let herself get old.
She let herself get fat.
I'm going to be blunt - she let herself get scarred by acne too. It's hugely influenced by diet, hygiene, and general health. (I'm older than her and I still get a breakout whenever I let myself eat junk food so I avoid that shit)
She still got matches despite all this. Women's dating woes are self inflicted.
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 9mo ago
I had terrible acne when I was a teenager, and I did everything right. For years my face looked like a pepperoni pizza. We simply had no effective treatments back then. Even now in my early 60s I get the occasional pimple, so there’s a genetic component to it.
Everything else is spot on. She was handed a winning lottery ticket that could have set her up for life. Unlike most of our subjects who blow all the winnings in an orgy of hedonism, she didn’t even bother to cash it in.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
I'm painfully aware, oily skin runs in my family, which has some drawbacks in that we pretty much are forced to be hyper vigilant about what contributing factors we can control or otherwise....zit happens. Even in middle age.
Being more resistant to sun and windburn is nice and all but the tradeoff is annoying as fuck.
lurkerhasarisen A Strategist Among Tacticians 9mo ago
Priceless!
NotaBene Sr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
It's really not. You're a fat, leftover woman who hit the wall a long time ago. You will die alone, bitter at men.
Maturin_nj 9mo ago
Times they are a changing. The backup reserve stable provider is not a guaranteed safety net option any longer. A lot of those guys who would have once married these leftovers has gone MGTOW. See the movie Marty with ernest borgnine. Today Marty would have gone mgtow.
polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 9mo ago
Ernest is one of my all time favorite actors. I knew him from his "heavies" or bad-guy roles such as in The Devil's Rain or Emperor of the North Pole but he also played a nice guy in Escape from New York. He was famously married to Ethel Merman for only about 5 months. She was a diva who couldn't stand that she had 2nd billing to fans who approached them asked for Ernest's autograph. He won an oscar for Marty.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Isn't it a little late to have her epiphany phase? She weighs more than an NFL linebacker to boot. I have to wonder if older women purposely sabotaged her...
ogrilla99 Pez "The Pussy Dispenser" Pimp 9mo ago
Nah. She received all sorts of advice from women. She chose to remember and listen to the ones that reinforced what she wanted to do anyway.
I'm sure this woman had someone, a grandmother, an aunt, etc. who told her to get married early. She disregarded that advice and took the advice of the people telling her to keep doing exactly what she wanted to do. And now she complains that she got bad advice.
it's like the women that complain about always ending up with the bad boys, and why they never seem to get a nice guy. And the truth is, they attract all sorts of men, and then choose the bad boys.
Mixximus_XX 9mo ago
Mothers sabotage children, imagine what friends do since they are not invested in any* capacity. Her friends were competition.
Good to see you back.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
Yeah and feminism has them brainwashed to not listen to men or even their own fathers.
BobbingForBunions Sr. Hamster Analyst 9mo ago
I treasure conciseness. This girl writes like she's paid by the word. I assume she also communicates this way verbally.
Even if she were stunning, I'd pass.