I found an interesting post on a Christian blog that is sensitive to men's issues. In the post, the author (me) talks about how women have unrealistic expectations about men, and how they spend their prime years chasing men with attractive appearances who are unlikely to commit to them. Feel free to stop by and comment.
Source: https://winteryknight.com/2022/06/17/famous-pastor-discovers-the-real-reason-for-the-decline-in-marriage-rate/
Full text: In this post, I want to look at a series of tweets from an ordinary pro-marriage pastor. He is concerned about declining marriage rates. He observed young people in his church, and he did some social science research. And he's come up with a theory about why young Christians are delaying marriage, or not getting married at all. First, here's the marriage rate, accurate to 2020:
This pastor is just talking about ordinary Christian men in his tweets below, not the ones who do a ton of research on apologetics, etc.
Here is what the pastor said:
I saw this chart a while back and scratched out some rough thoughts...
Around 2010 or 2011, I noticed a significant shift in “the relationship marketplace.” I can sum up this shift with two trends I saw in my church circles.
First, I noticed that many (not all) average to above average Christian men in overall quality (e.g. health, looks, ambition, etc.) were struggling to get a girlfriend. At first, I thought these guys were just being too picky or had some other major deficiency. After all, there are a lot of lazy foolish men out there. This wasn’t the case with these men. They weren’t the top 1%. But they were quality and had very reasonable (perhaps too low) standards for a girlfriend.
Second, I noticed that many (not all) average to below average Christian women (I know me suggesting that such a thing exists is upsets a lot you) in overall quality (e.g. beauty, personality, temperament, etc.) had a fear of a committed relationship and were extremely picky. They would often complain that there weren’t any good men. But there were good men. They just thought those men were below them. They weren’t. The arrogance and pride of these women was shocking to me at the time. Not anymore.
I ran my concerns past a boomer pastor. He dismissed it. He thought all the women were just great and men needed to step up to win them. Man up and all that. That really was the moment I realized that there was some form of generational blindness related to what is happening. And that’s why I started tracking trends in sexuality not just generally but specifically as they related to dating (aka the relationship marketplace).
Now let me point out 2 particularly concerning trends that overturn older assumptions about the relationship marketplace.
First more and more women today are delaying marriage into their 30s. They, however, aren't delaying sex. Very few of these unmarried women are virgins when they turn 30. Stats vary but it's below 10% and perhaps closer to 5%. Moreover, these women have multiple sexual partners. It's difficult to calculate the number but a survey of the material points toward between 7-14 sexual partners prior to getting married right around 30. Others say that is a low number. Regardless, the consequences of this are hard to overstate. This sort sexual promiscuity has intense negative emotional, spiritual, and even physical consequences in the lives of these women. Also, it means that a large number of these women are using hormonal birth control and having abortions.
[...]Second, as you see in the chart above, male virginity between ages 18-30 has increased 20% since '89. That's good, right? No. It's doubtful that this increase in virginity is directly connected to an increase in morality among men.
[...]So who are these women having sex with?
There appears to be men who are consider "top tier guys" by women who are having a lot casual sex with a lot of women. Supposedly, 20% of the men are having 80% of the sex.
The pastor mentions that 80% of the young women these days are chasing the "top" 20% of men. It's important to understand that these are not the top 20% of men according to criteria like commitment ability, protecting, providing and moral / spiritual leading. These are the "top" 20% of men according to appearance. In fact, if a man has definite, defensible views on moral or spiritual issues, that is bad, because that means that he is strict, judgmental and boring. Not high status.
What do young women consider "high status"?
Look at this survey of women who use Bumble about where they set the minimum and maximum height of men they are seeking:
What this shows is that women have the height slider set to find men who are between 6 feet tall and 7 feet tall. The average height of a North American man is 5'9". This is what they value in a man.
Have a look at this survey of OKCupid users:
Again, the men with the highest status are judged by their appearances. And how do 80% of the women get the attention of these top 20% of men? Why, by giving them premarital sex, of course. Since these men are swimming in attention from 80% of the women, there is no need for them to commit first in order to get sex. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Although you might think that promiscuity makes men unstable, selfish and low status, you would be wrong. These are the men that women want.
As famous feminist Hanna Rosin explains:
But this analysis downplays the unbelievable gains women have lately made, and, more important, it forgets how much those gains depend on sexual liberation. Single young women in their sexual prime—that is, their 20s and early 30s, the same age as the women at the business-school party—are for the first time in history more successful, on average, than the single young men around them. They are more likely to have a college degree and, in aggregate, they make more money. What makes this remarkable development possible is not just the pill or legal abortion but the whole new landscape of sexual freedom—the ability to delay marriage and have temporary relationships that don’t derail education or career. To put it crudely, feminist progress right now largely depends on the existence of the hookup culture. And to a surprising degree, it is women—not men—who are perpetuating the culture, especially in school, cannily manipulating it to make space for their success, always keeping their own ends in mind. For college girls these days, an overly serious suitor fills the same role an accidental pregnancy did in the 19th century: a danger to be avoided at all costs, lest it get in the way of a promising future.
I've written about how feminists support the hook-up culture before. They aren't looking for men who will commit until they reach their mid-30s or 40s, and feel peer pressure from their friends who are married and having kids. And many Christian women think that hooking up with hot bad boys is compatible with Christianity, because Christianity is just about God making women happy by letting them do whatever they feel like doing "in the moment".
What Christian women, their parents and pastors believe
Here are some things I've heard over the years by Christian women, their parents, and their pastors:
- there's nothing wrong with women choosing men based on height, appearance, and bad boy character traits
- bad boy character can easily be fixed by nagging, sex-withholding, and threatening divorce
- marriage will magically happen when the woman feels like getting married, until then she should focus on casually "dating" attractive men, career, travel and fun
- a woman's ability to choose good men and be a good wife and mother isn't harmed by having premarital sex with hot bad boys
- men aren't discouraged by a woman's student loan debt or secular left indoctrination, or her desire to put the kids in daycare and public schools, so she can keep working after they are born
- it's wrong for men to have standards about what they want in a wife and mother, or to prefer early marriage
- if Christian men want to attract women, they should spend more money on expensive cars, clothes and watches
- women are just as likely to get pregnant at 35 as they are at 20, as long as they are in good shape and healthy
- studies that show that past promiscuity causes the woman to be unhappy, and the marriage to be unstable, are all false
There are costs and risks to men who decide to marry. There are external threats from policy, courts, the workplace, the schools, etc. It's become dangerous for men to advocate for Christian views, and having a family makes it even more risky. These risks make sense when the man gets early investment from a woman - support, investment and many well-raised children. These risks make NO sense when there is no early investment from a woman. A woman who chased "high status" men will never be attracted to a good man. She may eventually want to settle for one, but she will never respect him.
mustangfrank1 Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I want to support the writer's view that HOT men get all the women. Here is my life as a wing man for a Chad.
Chad is a lawyer and was working on USA/Russia oil business contracts in NYC. Every 2 weeks, he would fly up to NYC for a week and work with his Russian counterpart. He was doing this for 4-6 months, always the same flights. One day, a stewardess at American Airlines asked him if he would like to spend a week with her in Hawaii. He could fly on her companion fare, round trip, for $100 and split the cost of the one bedroom hotel room at $62 a night. As Chad is telling me about this, sarcastically I say,”And the problem is”. He says he knows he could get better looking women in Hawaii and bring them up to the room for sex. He didn’t want to bring them to the room while the stewardess was there. He had no doubt he could find women to have sex with, the issue was the stewardess.
Chad is out with a friend of mine. He is in his late 40’s but looks early 30’s. Two women, ages 22 and 26 have the hots for Chad. They are asking my friend about Chad to get the inside track on him. These women are topless dancers. How do we know? They said so. The end of the night, Chad gets both of their numbers.
Chad would go to singles events, not to find a GF, LTR or a possible wife, but to restock his harem. Women who go to singles everts, may be a bit older and are actively looking for a man in their life. These women are easy prey for a Chad. The best these women will be is an 8. Chad is a USDA Grade A 100% certified solid gold 10. These women think they hit the jack pot, when all he is interested in is a quick and easy lay. He would date/fuck them for a few times, but once they stared talking serious long term stuff i.e. marriage, kids, etc., he would block their phone calls and delete their numbers. Women never asked why such a good looking man in his late 30’s or early 40’s was never married or had kids. He was single, for a reason. He didn’t want to get married. Why choose one woman when he can have many? And that is exactly what he did.
Chad and I are to meet at a singles event. He is already there. I am waiting to get inside. We see each other through the doorway. There is a woman 30-32, 5’7”, wearing a light brown woman’s business suit. She is in shape, slender, and the suit fits her well. She has a darker brown purse over her shoulder that matches her brown shoes. She took care to dress herself and it showed. If she is not the most attractive woman at the event, she is one of the more attractive women at the event. She is by herself in a corner of the room. I am planning on approaching her once inside. She starts walking, so I keep an eye on her. She walks right up to Chad. She gives him her name and phone number.
I set Chad up with a woman I know in my home owners association. Chad picks her up. She is so memorized by his looks, they don’t go out. They go to his place for sex. How do I know? Chad tells me.
Chad and I are at a C&W bar. Chad says,”Oh no. This is going to be painful. I didn’t want to run into her.” I look up to see the backside of a woman pass behind a wooden column that holds up the roof of the bar. A second later, the first thing I see emerging on the other side of the column are huge breasts, then the woman. She then turns and is walking towards us. She is 42, 5’8” 34FF, 28, 38, has a mane of blond hair piled 2-3 inches on her head, flowing over her shoulders down to her elbows. She is former Miss Sweden and has been in TV, Radio and movies. She has her own advertising company and has her own money. She is beautiful and in shape. She wants to marry Chad. Chad wants no part of it.
I worked at GE as a field service engineer. I would get a new car when my old one hit 60K miles. I am talking to Chad on his purchase of a new Ford Explorer. He mentions he bought it at a certain dealership. He said his salesperson was a woman about 25. She was below average in looks but had huge breasts. Her breasts made milk, even though she was not pregnant. She had a hormone imbalance and they made milk all the time. He would go to her apartment 2-3 times a week to drain her breasts, and she would drain his balls. I later realized the dealership he bought his Explorer was the same dealership that I was to get my new company car. I go to the dealership showroom floor and there she was. She is wearing a shirt 4-5 times bigger than her normal size. Her breasts were pineapple size almost down to her waist. She looked as he described her. Maybe a 5 for the face, so so on the body.
Chad and I are at a C&W bar. A girl asks me to dance with her girlfriend. After dancing with her, I ask the girl if she would like to dance with my friend (Chad). When she meets Chad, her eyes go wide open. She is grinning from ear to ear. At this point in time she tilts her head to the right with her tongue hanging out the right side of her mouth. Both of her hands are balled up under her chin as she is staring up to him with goo goo eyes. She made a fool out of herself. We are talking about a 42 year old woman, not a 12 year old girl. I look at her, then at him, then straight ahead and think WTF is going on here. But this is how women responded around him. He was like catnip to women. They would lose their minds and act stupid. Chad gets her number, they go to his home a few days later. There is a hot tub outside. They climb in, but she says no to sex. This is on a Tuesday night, but she says call me Thursday. Thursday night they have sex in the hot tub. BTW She was the regional director of Balley’s President and First Lady Health Clubs. She visits various clubs, in various states, to make sure they are clean and maintained. Thus, this was going to be a ONS for her. She would never see him again. But a good man, he will have to prove himself worthy of her. WTF?
The Russian lawyer he was working with on oil contracts was a 27 year old woman. She was blonde and average in looks and body. He showed me a photo of her. He tell tells me she stayed with him the final month before the contracts were signed in NYC. He was 52 at the time, she 27. He only has one bed in his home. Where do you think she slept?
Updated I was in college. There was a Chad in the fraternity I was in. One day, I am in the lunch room. Chad is sitting down on a chair. On each thigh, is a girl sitting, over each shoulder is a girl hanging off him and in front of him is a semi-circle of 6-8 girls, all goo goo eyed over him. He had many a girl in college who wanted him to commit to her. He never did. Why? Why would he? He could get any girl he wanted and time.
inevitableowl1 Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
How much of the above are the words of the pastor who looked into things after being brushed off by the boomer pastor?
And how much are your own words added in? Because it (expertly) includes a lot of major manosphere / red pill talking points that I wouldn’t have expected solely from the musings of a pastor
Or have I got confused and are you the pastor in question?
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
The stuff I quoted from the pastor are all his original tweets:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1535266953186709507.html
NotaBene Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
We appear to have a great deal in common, I commented and will bookmark the site for further perusal.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
Excellent! Check out the two podcast episodes on masculinity. My co-host is a very intelligent woman who listens to me complain about all these things.
https://knightandrose.podbean.com/e/knighted-by-the-king-authentic-masculinity/
https://knightandrose.podbean.com/e/a-marriage-fit-for-the-king/
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
You got the 80/20 rule wrong. 100% of women are attracted to 20% of men. Meaning 80% of men are unattractive to 100% of women.
You also need to factor in the decline in Christians. Less Christians=Less Christian marriages.
What you're seeing in the church is a radical take-over by left-over women. Of course they have to change the rules so they can be born-again virgins and land a "good man". In reality the good men are leaving the churches in droves because it's full of whores.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Meh. You're getting too nitpicky here.
Let's not forget that not every last woman is being promiscuous and chasing Chad. It isn't 100% who are doing this. What percentage is it? I don't know and I don't care. It's a lot. That's all that matters.
Are you implying that the rate of marriage is the same as before, when adjusted to the smaller sample size?
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I'm not nitpicking, I'm just pointing out the mistake people make explaining the 80/20 rule. It should be called the 100/20 rule. Or the 80/0 rule. The study just says 80% of men are unattractive to women.
The actual 80/20 rule comes from business and it means that 80% of sales come from 20% of customers.
The rate of marriage in Christians can be due to less Christians but the overall marriage rate can not. If you want to focus in on Christian marriages then yes, lower sample size. If you want to look at the total population, then there are less marriages.
Seagram7 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
You just scratch the surface on that topic. You dont know just how powerful organized Christian churches can be. It can take a true Jezebel, which can be a former prostitute, coke addict, porn star or just a girl that really rode the Carousel hard and reset everything they did back to zero and never speak of it ever again because "only God can judge me.". Put that way, is it any surprise that the Jezebel's are flocking to church to find a good man. It's like church is tailor made for former carousel riders.
I have seen and heard about this so many times that I think it is a female dating strategy: be a carousel rider---hit the wall---clean up your act---find a church---repent---find a good man (provider)---have your cake and eat it too. If the good man, or his friends and family voice any doubt, scream that: "I was lost and now I'm found, I have been forgiven, only God can judge meeee!!!!!"
The most radical example I read is the former porn star Kacey. She really looks like the cute girl next door but her first porn was when she turned 18 and within 2 months was doing 8-man gangbangs. Her best porn was with a midget who was dressed as a genie. To all you haters, yes I did watch it, not my proudest fap, well actually it was. Anyway when she aged out of the industry, she went home, went to church and found a really good guy that had money and now is living in an upper-scale suburb.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Blue-pilled men who are at their peak SMV and don't know it are marks for these women when they hit their epiphany phase. This is why red pill is such a threat and is being censored, banned, attacked on all fronts. Red pilled men have standards and do judge women. That's the exact opposite of what women want. They have to put an end to slut-shaming and a whole host of other things that work against their strategy of alpha fucks/beta bucks.
Seagram7 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
What I was trying to say, and you post says it better, is that when a woman hits the epiphany phase, churches are a target rich environment for them. It's easy pickings in a church for them because it is full of easy marks. Plus whatever the congregation, preacher, imam etc preaches keeps the men in the matrix and reinforces blue pill thinking which makes these men easy marks.
I think a strong belief system in a Higher Power is good. I am a believer. The blue pill in church varies from church to church, from preacher to preacher. It is NOT just certain churches that try to keep men blue pilled. It is a concerted effort of feminism, media, Hollywood, that all are preaching blue pill thinking. The movie Chasing Amy is about Ben Afflick's character finding out that the love of his life was spit roasted back in high school; her high school yearbook had her nickname was "finger-trap". He dumps her and then realizes that her past doesnt matter and he should have been accepting of her sexual exploration but because he was so toxic in his masculinity, so narrow minded, he lost true love and she got away.
When I was blue pilled, I listened to the propaganda and tried to be the cool dude that was "whatever" with a woman's sexual past and current behavior. I believed that if you were a self confident man secure in yourself that her past doesnt matter. Whatever negative thought and unconformable feeling I had I would dismiss and push away. It was TRP that said it was OK to be disgusted by her past and those emotions of revulsion to her behavior; an even more so you can judge a woman, those emotions you feel of disgust are legitimate and there is nothing wrong feeling that. To listen to your gut, dont ignore red flags and her past behavior are red flags. Most important of all, there is nothing wrong with having standards. There is nothing wrong with you when you are not cool with her past porn with a midget, I do judge you for being filmed having sex with a midget, and most importantly, I am not going to marry you...because of the porn with a midget.
We, as in men are their retirement plan and TRP is fucking that up. What is going on now is some men are waking up and not getting married or even worse, playing the field and getting sex and not giving commitment. To a woman, Beta Bob is not suppose to be a player, he not suppose to pump and dump. When Bob uses his potential of commitment, gets sex and doesnt commit and she is deep into her 30's not married, either bastard kids or no kids, no white picket fence in the suburbs, then it is time to shut down the offending information
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Yeah we're all on the same page here. We have to realize there is a blue pill for women too. "You can have it all", "You deserve a fairy tale prince", "Nobody can judge you", "You can be a born-again virgin and get a Christian man at church after you're a washed up whore with kids in tow", "Freeze your eggs until prince charming comes along", "Blame everything on the tyrannical patriarchy"etc. I had a woman tell me my life is like a movie because I'm a man. I told her yeah, like a horror movie. She didn't get it. Too far blue pilled.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
I think I got the 80/20 rule right, but I agree with you about church. Nobody has any solution to the declining marriage rate except to let women embrace feminism, and demand that men marry them. It's too risky. Not worth it.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
It's all about changing the rules to favor female reproductive strategy. Notice there are all these women pastors, women's groups, changing sermons, changing marriage? The churches know their pews are full of single mothers and whores and that's what pays the bills. All the decent men look around and see this and leave the church.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
It's fucked up, but if I'm out of town on an extended trip (i.e >3 weeks) I hit up the church my first Sunday there.
I'm fucking by Tuesday.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Yeah, when I'm in Bangkok I hit the red light district. When in the US it's the Church.
Boar_excrement Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
That is exactly what I did. Fuck the pressure to step up take care of a bunch of Chad's kids.
I left and I took my labor and tithes with me.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Good. Tell them that too. I told my dojo I pulled my sons out because their kickboxing class turned into a grils aerobics class.
woodsmoke Respectful reprobate 1y ago
Oh, I have a solution. Repeal the 19th Amendment (actually, abolish universal suffrage altogether), boot women out of the work force so men don't have to compete with hypergamy driving women to pursue the very careers they want a man to have in order to be considered "economically attractive," abolish no-fault divorce and restore the standard of custody of the children being given to the parent best able to provide for their welfare.
In short, reward masculinity and enforce femininity.
It'll never happen, of course, but it's a solution, and one that will work a damn sight better than doubling down on the ideas that got us into this mess in the first place.
Problematic_Browser Sr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
Nope, not happening.
When women have 52% of the political power and control how most money is spent, you think they're gonna do ANYTHING that gives them more accountability?
woodsmoke Respectful reprobate 1y ago
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
I think I saw a study that showed the majority of women opposed the 19th back when it was being decided. They knew it would destroy the family and it did. No going back now but we can learn the lessons of history or be doomed to repeat them.
woodsmoke Respectful reprobate 1y ago
My understanding is most women were opposed to the measure on the grounds of voting rights being tied to civil and military obligations. In short, women didn't want the franchise because they didn't want to face the possibility of being drafted.
Awful nice of our legislators at the time to simply omit that particular requirement for women.
Loneliness-inc LvL 99 Rogue NiceGuy™ 1y ago
Correct. They didn't want the authority if it came with responsibility.
Because women absolutely hate responsibility.
Responsibility is a misogynistic tool of the patriarchy!!!
But then they gave women authority without the corresponding responsibility. No woman is opposed to that.
None at all.
whytehorse2021 Jr. Hamster Analyst 1y ago
It's all documented under the anti-suffragette movement. Lots of factions with differing reasons. The main reason was that men should handle politics. Women back then actually worked and did useful stuff in the home and to add the burden of politics was too much. My wife hates voting and just copies my ballot. I worry about all the reasons for why I vote the way I do.
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
These two seem like excellent first steps "abolish no-fault divorce and restore the standard of custody of the children being given to the parent best able to provide for their welfare".
moorekom Urban Hoe Guerrilla 1y ago
winteryknight WAATGM Endorsed 1y ago
This list seems much more doable. At some point, when the marriage rate drops low enough, policies like these will have to be implemented. We have a national debt over 30 trillion now, and the amount of government money available for all the husband-substitute programs is running out.