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polishknight WAATGM Endorsed 2mo ago
Commenting on this a bit late: This issue is what got me RP'd back 40 years ago. I believed in all this egalitarian BS and then when women on dates played their games, it was eye opening. It wasn't only that the women refused to pay, but how they did it with gaslighting rationalizations that made me feel like I was on Shutter Island. "Asker pays" or "It's simpler if the man pays!" or "I was raised this way!" and so on. She doesn't WANT to pay so she shouldn't.
Combine that with how many of them will wail away at gender injustices including even so-called traditionalist women that the man isn't "helping out enough" at home. My wife tried it on me a few times and I told her to hire out a cleaning service on the family budget or lower her housekeeping standards AND I also reminded her of everything I did that she had failed to account for. Never heard anything about it after that and no, she didn't poison my tea. I think...
I marveled at how unmanipulative they were otherwise in that while they came up with everything imaginable like a defense lawyer on contingency representing a wealthy axe murderer, they couldn't imagine abandoning the free meal or dinner date antics for a long term goal. I dated several working class chubby women whom, if they had simply ponied up half and been nice about it, or even paid the whole thing, I'd probably have wifed them up and been worse off. One 40 yo clock ticker moaned she wanted to get married and quit her job and paternity trap a man and I escaped her clutches because she couldn't keep her big (literally!) mouth shut.
My sister told me something in disgust, but happened to be true, that I would only date ugly women if I didn't pay so I took the advice to heart: I paid, all right, but only for pretty women because a date costs just as much for a plain looking woman than a pretty one.
Lone_Ranger Live by the pork sword, die by the pork sword 2mo ago
goodish meme, but please stop pushing misinformation about women getting only 50/50 in a divorce. If younger guys believe this, more and more of them are going to fall into the marriage con.
It's not 50/50 in a divorce. It's more like 90/10 in the womans favour, or worse.
PoopBeast Jr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
My understanding is that it's usually 50/50. We need to be at least somewhat precise and non-exaggerated when making our points otherwise it just gives people ammunition against us. That said, when you consider how much more of their income women probably spend on consumables compared to men, I suspect that "50/50" usually does work in women's favor. Also the issue of hypergamous economic dating, as @Overkill_Engine said.
GimmeTheUsual Sr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
The key here is which assets are being 'split'. Guys that build a business where the woman had zero input are definitely paying more on principle, since that split isn't even remotely fair. I've been in that situation, had assets taken from me that I built on my own. Wasn't all bad though, I'm in a place now that she can never touch - and I made it all back and then some.
But most guys don't, and it cripples them for the rest of their lives, especially when getting divorce-bombed later in life, where recovery isn't as probable. I can only guess how many take their own lives because they come to the conclusion that they're totally effed.
Lone_Ranger Live by the pork sword, die by the pork sword 2mo ago
It's actually not 50 / 50 ... esp when there are children.
When there are kids involved, and you take the net present value of the future income streams, the man basically gets a negative amount in the settlment.
PoopBeast Jr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
Is this written as law? What I don't understand is that I personally know a woman who was the primary breadwinner who consulted a lawyer while considering a divorce and was told it would most likely be split 50/50. It's funny how conflicting the stories are on this.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2mo ago
Keep in mind not only do divorce laws vary by state (so even if we dig up and cite one states' laws, another will have different laws) but also judicial interpretation of such is also a hurdle.
The end result being that men who don't get fleeced are the exception rather than the rule. The system rewards most consistently those that are willing and able to ratfuck the other party harder. And given that roughly 70% of divorces are not initiated by men...
Either way we can dicker about the details all we want, but the bulk of the issues about optimizing dissolution of the commingling of assets can be avoided by men by simply never commingling assets to begin with.
PoopBeast Jr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
Interesting. Definitely not trying to "dicker", I've just always wondered about this.
Lone_Ranger Live by the pork sword, die by the pork sword 2mo ago
just go on any divorce forum that is for men. Listen to their stories.
I'm telling you - it aint 50 / 50.
the myth that it is is probably misleading men into getting married in the first place.
The more you earn / the higher your net worth, the worse it is.
I personally know of a guy that lost an entire £2m pound house, and has 80% of his wages deducted. He now lives in a small apartment, that he rents (cannot buy in his condition). He basically has no assets, and 20% of his net income to live on. His wife does nothing, except spend spend spend.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2mo ago
I definitely think one of the more subtle vetting measures men need to learn is to portray themselves as being drastically poorer than they actually are, or at least obfuscate the fuck out of any wealth markers to avoid women with the worst materialist drives. (translation: gold-diggers/sandbaggers)
And then still avoid getting married at all costs anyways as extra insurance since the entire system is broken and counterproductive to long term stability.
Lone_Ranger Live by the pork sword, die by the pork sword 2mo ago
If I could have my time again, I would definetely hide my wealth. Before, during and after any marriage.
it's actually very easy to do. When you get divorced in the UK, they only ask for 12 months bank statements on the form E. If there are no contributions to some savings plan or pension, its easy enough not to declare it.
Any guy that is married, even if you think all is well, make sure to squirrel most of your assests away. if you have parents that are alive, consider transfering the ownership to your parents (but be aware of inheritence tax).
Divorce has cost me 7 figures. It is the leading cause of asset loss for successful men.
Source: been divorced twice.
GimmeTheUsual Sr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
I stopped being subtle about it.
Here's how I figure it, yes, I will attract women who will attempt to exploit me - but it also gives me social proof that can allow me the ability to select/influence a woman that I deem more worthy. Still, no marriage - I totally agree there. Even prenups aren't ironclad, so why bother with all that nonsense.
"Family" Law would have to change drastically in men's favor for me to even consider it, and I doubt it ever will.
woodsmoke Respectful reprobate 2mo ago
I don't know exact numbers but my brother's divorce damn sure didn't end in a 50-50 split. His ex got the car, the house and all the furniture, the cats; about all my brother made it out of there with was his gaming gear and his clothes. Wouldn't surprise me to learn she tried to go after his PC and Xbox as well, purely out of spite.
Granted, I don't know as he fought particularly hard for his share of the equity in the house or car and I know he didn't fight for the pets. By the end of the divorce he was so ground down he just wanted that woman out of his life with no legal or fiscal means of worming her way back in, and his is far from the only such story I've heard.
I suspect there are many such cases of assets technically being split 50/50 in a purely legal sense but in reality being split 80/20 or worse in favor of the woman, simply because most dudes don't have the level of vindictiveness required to fight tooth and nail for every pound of flesh one can possibly extract from one's ex on the way out.
GimmeTheUsual Sr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
One moment I'll never forget during my divorce was in court, and her lawyer did this dramatic build up and pointed at me when describing my "expensive computer equipment".
Oh really, please tell me what computers aren't expensive that are worth a shit? LOL
Just fucking stupid, but had to share. I'm still very glad I pulled the plug on her and it wasn't the other way around.
NotaBene Sr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
My dad, decades ago, was paying $40,000 a year in child support and alimony. My mother wasted the money and constantly dragged him through the courts for more. The irony was that my dad was paying for both lawyers via court order, literally paying for his former cheating wife to sue him over and over.
Hell hath no fury like a monkey-branching whore who can't take 100% of a man's assets after a divorce she instigated.
Lone_Ranger Live by the pork sword, die by the pork sword 2mo ago
its actually not just 100% of his assets, a lot of men end up with the women taking about 350% of his assets.
A lot of young guys don't seem to comprehend the nature of NPV and negative future income streams.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2mo ago
Imagine what the actuary data would uncover if there were such a thing as marriage insurance.
I bet the interest rates on such and how it can vary would be enlightening to at least some men.
("Well according to our background analysis Mr Chump, your fiancée has 5 friends who are all single moms whose mothers are single moms as well, so we are going to have to charge at least 60% APR on any policy we offer")
Granted, even the ridiculous interest rates on a new muscle-car from that car lot just outside of base doesn't deter a lot of young bucks from making bad decisions either.
Overkill_Engine WAATGM Endorsed 2mo ago
Hell, even 50/50 in a divorce is a horrid deal as it is once one realizes that women prefer to marry up and often do not contribute anything resembling 50% of the total income.
mattyanon TRP Endorsed 2mo ago
It's 90/10 in the woman's favour. Plus alimony. And if she fucks it up and needs more? There are no limits on her lawyers renegotiating her payouts. Also, you have to pay for her lawyer as well as your own.
And it's even more unfair than that, because it's a 90/10 spit of YOUR money. It's not like she contributed to the pot in the first place.
Vermillion-Rx Penchant for plastic dolls 2mo ago
To be fair I didn't make the meme and it was a play on words
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2mo ago
to be faaaaaaaair...
Lone_Ranger Live by the pork sword, die by the pork sword 2mo ago
to be geeeeeeeeeeeeeeyyyyyyyy
Typo-MAGAshiv asshole. giga-shitlord. worst mod EVAR. 2mo ago
no, u
First-light Jr. Hamster Analyst 2mo ago
Love it. I am sure the reality is the top face in both cases -she would always expect more than 50% in a divorce, especially if there are kids but it speaks a truth that is very real.
Traditional "chivalry" gets men to give women a cake. The law then says women can eat men's own cakes too when they split up with men. The law made by representatives they elect also lets them earn their own cakes easier than men can.
Modern women have a win win win over men and something needs to change.