For those of you who don't already know, Norah Vincent was a lesbian feminist who went into a project with an agenda, but had her mind and eyes opened by reality. When she disguised herself as a man to check out the supposed privilege, she found out that being a man is actually far more difficult than she had imagined, and that it is women who are privileged. She went undercover during 2003 and 2004, and her book Self Made Man was published in 2006.
Living as a man was so rough on her that she stopped her research earlier than she had planned, and sought psychological help for depression. This led to another, later book in which she immersed herself in a mental hospital as a patient to write of that experience. What she went through in both of her "immersive journalism" books took its toll on her, and she used Switzerland's assisted suicide laws in July of this past year (2022) to cease living with the mental anguish.
Primary source: YouTube video of an interview Norah Vincent did with ABC News to promote her book Self Made Man back in 2006, when the book was new. I encourage anyone to watch the entire video, but I'll link to timestamps [edit - I can't seem to make that work, so I'll just use plain text until I figure it out] [new edit - the timestamp links seem to be working now, but I'll leave the plain text there just in case] that are pertinent to what I'm saying.
3:44 3:44
She shares her surprise at how men were actually far kinder, and women far meaner:
[people think] we're [women] so nice, we're so easy, men are so mean, [but it's the] complete opposite
9:20 9:20 until 10:50 or so.
Norah describing a woman she had approached as "Ned":
emblazoned with hostility
That rejection was actually quite tame and polite compared to what a lot of men experience. I'd have liked to have seen Norah's reaction to a nuclear rejection.
apologized for how she treated "Ned"
sorry for being bitchy
But as long as she had thought that Norah was "Ned", she believed her treatment of "him" was acceptable!
11:00 11:00 until around 12:10, online dating.
Norah, as "Ned", also went on about 30 dates with women, mostly arranging them on the internet.
A) I'd like to remind everyone that this was during 2003 and 2004, which was when I was using OLD. OLD was awesome back then, and not the raging dumpster fire it has become in the last 10 years or so.
B) 30 dates isn't bad, really. I'd have been interested to know how many attempts were made that never went anywhere.
C) it's interesting that while "Ned" had a few things in "his" favor, such as height and a symmetrical face, "he" still came across as rather soft and effeminate in person, which turned women off (so much for wanting sensitivity!).
interviewer: did you have any fun?
Norah: rarely. Rarely.
interviewer (voiceover narration): the pressure of having to prove herself as "Ned" was grueling. Norah was surprised that many women had no interest in a soft, vulnerable man.
There's that male burden of performance that women just don't understand, because they just are.
14:45 14:45 until about 15:03, she discusses how men frequently vent their anger and darkest thoughts, but that most of them would never actually do those things.
This is something a lot of women who venture into male spaces online fail to understand. They don't see men healthily venting, but rather plotting violence.
This also falls under one of the many reasons that allowing women to be moderators at any male space dooms that space.
More on this in a bit.
16:50 16:50 until about 17:10
This is her descent into depression, etc. Living as a man for a little over a year was enough to break her.
17:25 17:25 until 17:44
Norah: men are suffering. They have different problems, but they do not have it better...they need each other more than anything else. They need to be together.
interviewer: do you think women understand what it's like to be a man?
Norah: not at all. No clue. No idea.
Again, this is one of many reasons why male spaces without female moderators are essential.
17:55 17:55
this'll be revolutionary, since it's coming from a woman!
No, sadly, her journey has been swept under the rug by the powers-that-be and mostly forgotten, since they have a men-as-oppressors agenda to push.
Now to tie this requiem to the one female ally about whom I have no doubts [edit - one of two; I had forgotten Esther Vilar] to the theme of this forum, her journey explains partly why so many "good men" have checked out. She wasn't treated nearly as badly as most men get treated, and it was still too much for her. Is it any wonder, then, that as women have become ruder, sluttier, and just nastier all around, and as laws and soyciety continue rewarding and encouraging their bad behavior that includes frivolous divorces in which they pillage half of everything a man has worked for, is it any wonder at at all that so many men are checking out and refusing to commit? That those of us who fucked up and did, will tell any younger man who will listen "do NOT get married"?
Gentlemen, I encourage you to live for yourselves. Let those who don't care about you rot.
Suggested additional reading: archived article from Evie about Norah's life, work, and death.
Lone_Ranger 1y ago
It's such an interesting project.
houseoftolstoy Mod 1y ago
I will give Norah Vincent credit for the fact that she not only did more than most women will ever do in terms of trying to understand what it means to be a man, but she also was able to admit that she was wrong about her previous conceptions of what it means to be a man and what they go through. I don't know if other women would be able to be as convincing as her when it comes to passing as a man (Norah Vincent was taller than the average woman and took voice coaching lessons and as I recall had a more alto voice already), but I don't think many other women would be as willing to try this or stick it out as long as she did. Being a man is by no means sunshine and roses, but rather there are upsides and downsides to it.
I can admit I do not know what it is like to be a woman, as I have found out from being married to my wife how different a woman's perspective is for doing things such being somewhere alone at night. As a man, I do not have to fear being easily overpowered by most other men. I am not the biggest guy, but I have little to fear from most men if they were to try anything. My wife, on the other hand, is very petite and most certainly would not be able to stop the vast majority of men from harming her if they wanted to. Most men would not do such a thing, but the very few that would causes women like my wife to take caution about that sort of thing. This sort of situation does not happen very often, and my wife does take precautions to avoid that sort of situation altogether when she is by herself. But the point is I would never even think about these precautions nearly as much as she does. Not that I would put myself in a dangerous situation either, but there are far less situations where it could ever be dangerous for me in the first place.
Yes, men are the victims of violent crime more often than women. Perhaps because other men take even less precautions than I do, or perhaps there is less of a stigma in harming men than harming women. So that does show that even if you are a man, you are not necessarily getting all that better of a deal when it comes to safety and harm.
aldabruzzo Mod 1y ago
I do not have to fear being easily overpowered by most other men. I am not the biggest guy, but I have little to fear from most men if they were to try anything.
This right here is the only "privilege" men really have. We don't really worry too much about where we go or when. We don't worry about male-on-male aggression, first because we don't worry about other men starting shit with us, and second because most of us know what to do if someone does start shit.
Lone_Ranger 1y ago
Strongly disagree with this. Men should and must worry about where and when they go. We're many times more likely to be victims of violent assault then females. We're much more likely to be beaten or shot by cops. The ratio of men to women that suffer life altering injuries as a result at looking at the wrong person the wrong way after dark is probably 100 to 1. I've never heard of women being beaten unconscious in bars and night clubs buts a daily occurrence for men. Men are much more likely to be imprisoned as a result of a skirmish, even for self defence.
I heard a criminologist once saying "All those parents that are exerting their boys to walk women home are worrying about the wrong thing. Young men are many times more at risk of violent crime than young women. It should be the young women that are making sure the young men get home all right."
mustangfrank1 1y ago
I was in New Orleans checking out of a hotel. I had time to kill, so I turned on the TV. By chance she was about to be interviewed, so I watched.
She told the truth about how men have it hard, which is why Feminists have either ignored her or have no idea who she is/was.
I later purchased her book"Self Made Man". When asked if she would like to continue life as a lesbian or a man? She said a lesbian. Why? Men have it hard.
She also found out how rude and nasty women can be to men. She writes about the rejection she got from women while dressed as a man. Something she never thought about as a woman. Imagine that.
It should be required reading in Universities. women might learn something.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1y ago
Strongly agree. THIS is "gender studies".
moorekom Mod 1y ago
It cannot be. It might lead to some empathy.
whytehorse2021 1y ago
Seems like every feminist who actually researches men's issues ends up siding with men. There was that red pill documentary feminist... Jedidiah Bila... etc. They all get swept under the rug. You don't see this in countries where women aren't spoiled. Esther Vilar pointed out how Western women have the luxury to be feminists and manipulate men through what basically amounts to slavery.
Boar_excrement 1y ago
Many heartfelt thanks for doing this. The truth cannot be stopped nor should it be forgotten.
RIP Norah.
adam-l 1y ago
Great post.
Never forget Esther Vilar, one of humanity's greatest and bravest minds, imo.
whytehorse2021 1y ago
I'm happily surprised other guys have read her stuff. I'm still trying to find a translation of her 3rd book to no avail.
adam-l 1y ago
Yes, it's a shame it's not translated in English.
Oddest-One-Here 1y ago
Back when r/MGTOW was still around, Esther Vilar's book "The Manipulated Man" was featured in the sidebar.
whytehorse2021 1y ago
I think it was the first book I read from red pill. Right away I went to my wife and said "Honey, you need to get a job". lol.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1y ago
LMAO!
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1y ago
Ah hell, I actually did forget about her. I was remiss, and will edit the post accordingly.
Overkill_Engine Endorsed 1y ago
I ascribe that to at least being partially due to the barrier to entry to the internet being higher back then, so the average gutter thot that can barely figure out how to twerk, charge her phone, eat hot chip, and lie, was not as present in the pool. They were still defaulting to going to the bars and clubs as the venue to get railed.
But now that nearly anyone with two neurons and an overpriced smartphone can get online, of course it went to shit.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 1y ago
I think it was partly that, and partly that at least back then, women on OLD were actually there to meet someone. I hated bars, because sometimes they really were just there to hang out with friends (and bask in attention, though that was subconscious). OLD back then wasn't a great place to seek attention if a woman wanted that.
whytehorse2021 1y ago
It's more like access to the sexual marketplace expanded, thus bringing inflation for certain demographics that have monopolies. Mostly the top 10% of men and 90% of hoes. Globalization is breaking the monopolies more recently. There's also a huge pullback from men who figure out red pill. Facebook, IG, and Tinder all saw declines in 2022. It's the beginning of the end for OLD.
moorekom Mod 1y ago
Instagram is declining? I thought that was the new thing for OLD.
whytehorse2021 1y ago
Nah, it's tik tok now. Video memes or some shit like that.