A complete guide to picking up 9s and 10s
Today I want to tell you everything I know about getting the highest calibre girls from cold approach.
This guide will cover: frame control, inner game, and passing tests — which I consider to be the holy trinity of “9 and 10 game”.
This guide will NOT cover: body language, pulling, or handling logistics. Obviously, the latter are extremely important, but they’ve been adequately covered elsewhere, and there just isn’t space to include them here.
My background
Picked on in school, small and sickly, didn’t have a girlfriend until 18. Was dumped by her and spent the first 2 years of college pretty much celibate.
Got into redpill ideas through the old “Citizen Renegade” blog (which is now Heartiste). From there stumbled on RSD’s infield videos.
Started going out and approaching regularly. Approach anxiety and ceaseless rejection for months, but I kept at it. The odd success here and there.
After about 2 years I was fucking a new girl every fortnight or so, mostly 7s and 8s with the occasional turbo when fortune smiled on me. My current girlfriend is a 9, has done modelling etc.
Below is everything I know about getting the hottest women from cold approach pickup.
This is specially engineered for getting 9s and 10s and dealing with the kind of bullshit these girls will inevitably give you.
If you’re more into sleeping with tons of 7s (and there’s nothing wrong with that), this might be overkill.
When I was single I personally was one of those guys who would rather fuck half a dozen 9s/10s in a year than 50 mid range girls, so my whole approach to game is based on optimizing for that.
Take it for what it is — I’m not saying my approach is better, this is just how I roll based on my preferences.
This is a long post. You may want to bookmark it and return to it later if you’re particularly concerned with getting the hottest girls. There’s a lot of subtle points in here that won’t be immediately clear on a first reading.
PART 1: THE ATTRACTION PROCESS
1. Women are attracted to you because you have a stronger frame than they do.
That’s all.
There’s nothing else to it.
Attraction is purely a function of the fact that:
1. you’re a man
2. you have a stronger frame than the girl
As a man, you naturally have a strong frame of reality whereas women don’t. Therefore they value that. (Having a strong frame is a result of high testosterone levels.)
2. Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame than a handsome guy with a weak one
Evolution has designed women to be very flexible in terms of who they’ll become attracted to.
Women would rather fuck an ugly guy with a strong frame (i.e. a natural leader) than a handsome guy with a weak frame (cowardice, uncertainty).
That’s because women who chose to fuck the latter ultimately had their genes rooted out of existence by the brutal conditions of ancestral life.
In consequence, women now are very adaptable. They have the capacity to be attracted to almost ANY man so long as his frame is stronger than hers.
3. A girl can ONLY get horny for you if you have a stronger frame than her.
Think of this like a mathematical equation. There’s no getting around it, no cheating it, no short-circuiting it. It is an immutable law.
Women want to submit to you. They want to submit to a strong man. But she can’t submit to you if your frame is weaker than hers.
Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible.
4. “Be a man. Act like you have answers.” (Bill Burr)
What is a strong frame? Fundamentally, it’s a sense of certainty in everything you do. This certainty manifests itself as calmness in the face of social pressure.
Simply put, in a cold approach pickup, the woman becomes attracted to you because you’re more relaxed than she is.
That’s all.
That might seem strange, but it’s actually not.
The very fact that you approached the girl at all demonstrates a massive amount of confidence and social value (either real or potential).
So once you’ve approached the girl and gotten her into a conversation, the game is yours to lose. She’ll inevitably become attracted to you because you’re a man, and because you have a stronger frame than she does.
5. Relax
You will approach women, and you will make mistakes. That’s fine. Women don’t want you to be perfect. They only want you to be a man.
You are not physically perfect. Neither am I. Neither is anyone.
Women are not looking for perfection. They’re only looking for a man who has a stronger psychological frame than they do.
And fortunately for you, you already have a naturally stronger frame than women.
An example of this is how women will freak out over spiders or mice, jump up and down, scream, and so on, whereas a man will calmly deal with the situation without it breaking his frame.
6. She tests your frame to test your masculinity. The two are the exact same thing.
Women are attracted to masculinity. And masculinity can be defined as a measure of how much pressure a man can endure without it breaking his frame.
When you approach a hot woman, she immediately starts trying to break down your frame.
She’s testing it for strength.
If your frame crumbles in the face of her frame, she knows you’re not a man — because men have a stronger frame than women.
Fortunately, your frame will not crumble. A girl’s frame will always “buckle” under yours after you pass several of her tests. It’s instinctual. Women want to be with the strong man. When she sees you have a strong frame she starts getting wet.
7. “Listen, smile, nod, agree — then do what the fuck you were gonna do anyway.” (Robert Downey Jr.)
Women test me all the time. Women have said things to me that are totally brutal — called me ugly, too short, a loser, etc.
Most of the women I approach will make a weird face or pretend to ignore me for the first 10-20 seconds.
It doesn’t penetrate. It doesn’t cause any emotional reaction whatsoever inside me. I smile, nod, agree and then keep talking to her as if she’s being nice to me.
Eventually, she starts responding. Then she starts laughing. And then we have sex.
A woman’s frame will ALWAYS buckle under yours. It’s not a question of “if”, but “when”.
8. Chasing hot girls gives you a “charge”
When you’re first getting into game, it’s fine to only approach 5s and 6s.
Many of these girls will be super nice to you, and that’s cool. A lot of them are fantastic in bed.
But once you start to get some experience, you’re naturally going to want to move up the ladder and start laying 8s, 9s and 10s.
This is a natural instinct, and it’s good. It’s okay to chase girls just because they’re hot. These girls want you to chase them. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t make themselves hot.
Part of being a man is that you can appreciate a woman’s beauty and femininity. It gives you a charge. And pursuing women who are “out of your league” (by society’s false standards) also gives you a charge.
9. Seducing a 9 is no different from seducing a 5
The process of attraction is exactly the same. The only difference is that the hot girl’s frame is stronger than the chubby girl’s.
But ultimately, no matter how strong a hottie’s frame is, your frame will always be stronger, because you’re a man.
10. Women will test you brutally when they want to sleep with you
When you approach any hot girl, she’ll test your frame HARD to see if it’s strong.
She’ll act like a bitch. She’ll pretend to ignore you. She’ll tell you outright to go away.
She wants to see if you’ll buckle to social pressure, or if your frame will remain calm and consistent regardless of external feedback.
She actually WANTS to sleep with you — but she needs to test your strength first.
Don’t be fooled by the bitch persona for a second. It’s a carefully cultivated TEST.
Most men fail the test because they don’t even realize they’re being tested.
11. Fight Club analogy
Getting a hot woman into bed is like the hazing scene in Fight Club where the new recruits are lined up outside the door.
Tyler berates the recruits with personal insults. “Too old, go away.” “Too fat, go away.”
He forces them to stand outside for days. He tells them there’s no possibility they’re getting in. Most give up. But the few who stay are ultimately invited inside.
Seducing the hottest women is the same. It’s a WAR OF ATTRITION.
Women will fuck pretty much any guy who’s around at the end of the night so long as he has a stronger frame than she does.
But you have to stick around. You can’t leave when she insults you or acts like she doesn’t want to talk to you. If you do, you’re failing her tests.
We’ll get into the mechanics of passing these tests in a moment. First we need to talk about inner game, which is the basis of out-framing anyone.
PART 2: INNER GAME
12. The battle is won or lost inside you before it’s ever fought
We’ve said that the only way to AROUSE a woman to the point that she wants to sleep with you off cold approach is to pass her tests.
How do you pass these tests?
The first principle is to understand is that all tests are FRAME tests. The entire purpose of tests is to see if you have a strong frame that won’t buckle under pressure.
Therefore, it’s useless begin with talking about “how to pass tests”. The real value is in having a strong frame to begin with. As Sun Tzu says in the Art of War, “every battle is won or lost before it’s ever fought.”
13. The “I am enough” frame = the gold dust that gets you 9s and 10s
The basis of your inner game is the idea that “you are enough”. In other words, you have value to women simply because you’re a man.
Everything else is built upon that foundation.
You don’t have to “do” anything to attract a girl. She’s attracted to you simply because you’re more relaxed than she is.
You don’t have to change anything. You don’t have to improve your “game” beyond what it’s at now. You don’t need to become better looking.
You CAN do all these things if you want and they will help you. But you don’t have to.
You’re already “good enough” simply because you’re a man — because you’ve got testosterone and a dick. Women value that.
14. Men and women are meant to get together
We fit together like a key and a lock.
There have been studies done in which women smell men’s sweaty t-shirts, and it changes the chemistry of their brain — making them more relaxed and calm.
Your “male-ness” is inherently attractive to women. Same way as their femininity is inherently attractive to you.
15. Standards are a myth — everyone is a horny scoundrel
We have been brainwashed in our culture into believing that people (women) have something called “standards”.
Women don’t have any standards — not really. Neither do men.
Imagine you’re naked in bed with a “4”. She’s kinda chubby, plain face, you probably wouldn’t be proud of the lay, whatever. But her skin’s soft, she smells good, and she’s naked and wet.
Are you going to say no?
Probably not, if we’re being honest with each other. You’d almost definitely fuck her if you could be CERTAIN that (a) she’d leave afterwards, and (b) no one would find out.
There’s a natural magnetism between men and women. We have no willpower around each other.
Women are the same way. Take it from someone who’s “shot out of his league” too many times to count.
16. Be her cheat meal
You can be a “4” and she can be a “9”. If the circumstances are right, she’ll fuck you so long as there’s no downside. Why? Because sex feels good.
Even the hottest, slimmest yoga bunny pigs out on pizza every once in a while. It’s human nature. We’re not strong. We’re weak.
We pretend to have “standards” to the outside world. But down deep inside, no one has any standards, and we know it. We have no will, no self-control.
Hot women are the same.
If you can hold frame, pass a woman’s test, and lead her to somewhere sex can happen while creating plausible deniability, she WILL fuck you.
You’d be amazed how easy it is when you get it down.
17. Stop thinking you need to be an “alpha” to get hot girls — helpful at first but it will ultimately stress you out
Your frame is: “I am enough.”
Your frame is NOT “I’m a badass alpha who’s better than everyone”.
That’s hard to uphold in the face of conflicting evidence, and will cause cognitive dissonance and stress.
It’s simply: “Women and men are meant to get together. I’m a man. Therefore, women are already attracted to me on some baseline level.”
That’s not a hard frame to maintain. It doesn’t stretch the truth. It doesn’t cause cognitive dissonance.
And therefore it’s MUCH MORE RESILIENT in the face of tests and resistance — which is the most CRITICAL element to getting the hottest girls.
18. Cultivate a “reality distortion field”
In order to do this, you must fully INTERNALIZE the “I am enough” belief system.
Understanding it in theory isn’t enough. You have to feel it with your whole “mass”. You have to believe it with total, unquestioning, brainwashed conviction.
The more you think about the idea that there’s no reason you’re not enough, the more it will feel “true”. (Things become true to us through repetition, not through logic.)
Use self-hypnosis if necessary. Find every reason you can to support the belief that you’re enough, while cultivating “deliberate blindness” to anything that contradicts it.
Don’t be a slave to logic. Make logic a slave to you. This is how you cultivate a “reality distortion field”.
PART 3: HOW TO MAKE WOMEN HORNY BY PASSING THEIR TESTS
19. Enduring tests = building attraction
When you approach a woman, she immediately starts testing you. By passing her tests, you demonstrate that your frame is stronger than hers. This makes her horny for you.
Women are wired in such a way that they can’t become wet for a man unless he’s overcome some kind of resistance to get her. Hence, tests actually help you to seduce her. You want her to test you. The more tests you endure, the faster she’ll sleep with you.
When a girl is so into you that she doesn’t test you, this is how you end up on a 3rd date with a woman who still won’t put out.
Tests are your friend.
20. Passing tests is where ALL attraction is ultimately generated.
Attraction is NOT generated by pickup lines and witty comebacks.
Attraction is NOT generated by manipulation techniques.
Attraction is NOT generated by looks or money.
All of these things WILL increase your probabilities of getting laid, and make your game smoother and more streamlined.
But they’re NOT what builds ATTRACTION.
The one and ONLY thing that builds attraction is ENDURING A WOMAN’S TESTS.
The reason for this is obvious when you think about it:
21. Enduring her tests = ability to overcome adversity = GOOD GENES
Women have to see you have a strong frame, because otherwise they have no confidence that you’ll be able to protect them and remain calm in the face of danger.
And the ONLY way they can figure out if you have strong frame is by testing you, being bitchy, insulting you, brushing you off, ignoring you, etc.
That might seem “unfair” to you.
But if you can’t handle the abuse from some blonde chick in a bar, how the fuck are you going to handle beating a 7ft tall man to death with your bare hands when he and his tribe invade your village and try to gang-rape your girl?
Think about it.
22. Women aren’t built for Starbucks. They’re built for the African savannah.
Women aren’t built for the modern world. They’re built for nature, red in tooth and claw.
If you understand that, you’ll do things differently. You won’t take it so personally when you approach a girl and she tries to destroy you.
It’s necessary.
Hot women aren’t acting bitchy to you because of feminism. They’re acting bitchy to you because they WANT to fuck you — but they can only do so after they’ve proved that you have a stronger frame than they do.
This is instinctual. It’s part of the natural order.
Innate female bitchiness existed long before feminism. Testing men who approach them is encoded into female DNA.
When you get bitter at hot women for testing you, you’re being just as anti-nature as feminists themselves.
23. Eliminate self-destructive beliefs
There’s a common myth in the seduction community that a girl who acts “bitchy” to your approach is fundamentally flawed and therefore “not worth pursuing”.
This is totally ludicrous.
In fact, it’s just an incidence of “sour grapes” — cognitive games we play with ourselves to rationalize that the grapes we can’t reach are sour.
The reality is that if a girl has ANY VALUE WHATSOEVER, then she will test you hard during your first approach.
24. Embrace tests
Do you want a woman who says yes to every cock who comes along without putting up the slightest resistance?
Or do you want a woman who actually DISCRIMINATES among men based on their value — and who CHOSE YOU over hundreds of other suitors because you had the highest value?
If you’re a normal, healthy man, you want the second woman — and that means you must LOGICALLY EXPECT her to test you hard, and to test you with everything she’s got.
And you must not only expect tests, but APPRECIATE them.
You LIKE it when a girl acts bitchy on your approach. It means that if you settle down with her, she’s likely to act bitchy to OTHER GUYS who approach her, scaring them away.
The higher a woman’s value (in looks and character), the harder she will test you by ACTING “boring” and “bitchy”. This is the way it is and will be. This way and not some other way.
Luckily, passing tests is the fastest way to create arousal and horniness. This means that, paradoxically, the hottest women are often the easiest to seduce if you know how to pass their tests.
THE TWO CATEGORIES OF “TESTS” HOT GIRLS WILL GIVE YOU, AND HOW TO PASS THEM
Women will give you two types of tests — active tests and passive tests.
25. Active tests
Active tests are covered frequently in PUA literature.
When a woman insults you, belittles you, mocks you, or says something provocative to get a reaction — these are all examples of active tests.
Common “brush-off” lines like telling you she has a boyfriend, saying you’re a nice guy, telling you LJBF — these are also active tests.
I won’t talk much about passing active tests as this material has already been done to death in the redpill/PUA world. (Just look up anything on “shit tests”.)
Suffice to say, the best way to pass active tests is to either:
a. Agree and amplify.
b. Ignore the test and continue as if you didn’t even hear it.
Generally speaking, getting active tests is VERY GOOD. If the girl’s actively testing you, it means she’s definitely interested. It’s also a very easy way to demonstrate your strength of frame by being a charming asshole in response.
26. How to get past her “bitch shield” persona and into her knickers: recognize and endure passive tests
But there is another type of test, which is MUCH more important to understand.
This is the PASSIVE TEST. This is almost NEVER covered by PUA/redpill literature — yet these tests are actually the most COMMON you’ll encounter, particularly when dealing with 9s and 10s.
Passive testing happens when you approach a girl and she appears to be INDIFFERENT, BORED, or ALOOF.
“Resting bitch face” is a passive test. Giving you only one word answers is a passive test.
And — my favorite — when you go to approach a hot girl and she looks at you with a face of half-disgust, half-horror, and runs away.
Utterly BRUTAL as it seems — yes, even THAT is a test.
27. Don’t confuse passive tests with “rejection”
99% of guys interpret passive tests as REJECTION. Even natural alphas do.
And that’s totally understandable.
I mean, it makes sense right?
If you approach a stunner and she takes one look at you before making a “creeped out” face to her friend, and then they run away — that’s obviously a rejection, right?
Well, what if I told you that at least half the women I’ve slept with in my life reacted like that (or similarly badly) when I approached them?
Here’s a particularly good example:
28. “Rejection” is not rejection
There was this girl I went to college with. Brunette, hot, did modeling work in her spare time, socially was one step down from a “minor celebrity” in my city.
Probably one of the 10 or 15 hottest girls in my college.
I always wanted to fuck this girl, because she seemed smart and interesting as well as just hot. But I rarely saw her around.
One day she passed me in the stairwell, and I thought “this is probably the only chance I’m ever going to get”.
So I approached her and blurted. “Hi, I’m Mike”. Good eye contact. Held my hand out to shake hers. Whatever.
She looked at me like I had leprosy.
I mean, she literally RECOILED. Her eyes went wide in horror, as if I was trying to infect her with AIDS.
She shook my hand limply and muttered some social nicety back, then ran away swiftly.
WOW… Now THAT’S a rejection, right?
Well, the story has an addendum. That woman is now my girlfriend. Has been for three years. She’ll probably be the mother of my children.
So what’s going on here?
If she was attracted to me (which she later told me she was), why did she appear to “reject” me?
Answering this question is the THE KEY to mastering all of game and social dynamics. You ready?
Ok, here we go:
29. You are TOO HIGH VALUE
Yes, you read that correctly.
When you’re getting “rejected” by girls, it’s because YOU’RE TOO HIGH VALUE FOR THEM, and it makes them nervous and self-conscious.
Stay with me here. I know this sounds paradoxical, but try to grasp it.
30. Women are nervous around you
When you approach a woman out of the blue, it demonstrates a LOT of value. More than you probably realize.
This is because 97% of guys DON’T APPROACH AT ALL. (Those who do are usually drunk and sloppy.)
This means that if you’re an average to fair looking guy, and you cold approach a girl, you’ve just put yourself in the top 3% of men in terms of confidence.
In other words, she is going to naturally ASSUME that you are an alpha male (whether this is true or not).
This makes her NERVOUS and SELF-CONSCIOUS. She’s ill at ease around you because she wants to make a good impression.
So she tries to act “cool”, “aloof”, and “standoffish”… because she feels awkward.
She says bitchy things… because she can’t think of anything else to say.
She run aways… because she feels anxious around you and doesn’t know what to do next.
In other words: you’re coming across as TOO HIGH VALUE.
Women are nervous around you. Be patient with them!
Dumb yourself down. Hold frame, tease them, keep smiling warmly.
Eventually they’ll open up and start laughing, flirting back, and ultimately get turned on by the fact that you out-framed them in a way no other man ever has.
BONUS: THE 6 MOST COMMON TESTS HOT GIRLS WILL GIVE YOU AND HOW TO PASS THEM IN A WAY THAT BUILDS ATTRACTION
#1. You approach her, say hi, and she makes a weird face, or pretends to ignore you.
Simply keep talking as if you expect her to talk back. She’s nervous and self-conscious and doesn’t know what to say. That’s why she’s acting “bitchy” — you’re too high value for her and she feels anxious, causing her to try to act cool.
Don’t react to her. Keep your body language open and relaxed. Warm smile, unwavering eye contact. Keep talking. Eventually she’ll start talking back and responding positively.
#2. You’re talking to a girl and she acts indifferent or aloof, only gives you one word answers, or keeps looking off into the distance
Again, you simply have to ENDURE IT. Keep talking, keep being playful. Teasing her a little bit never hurts either. “Are you this charming with all the guys?” “This bitchy cheerleader persona you’re putting on is really turning me on, please keep it going ;-)”
When she sees you’re not going to go away so easily, her frame will crack. She’ll start to smile. Attraction.
#3. You’re talking to a girl and she leaves to go to the bathroom, says “I have to go find my friends”, or runs away for no apparent reason.
Let her go. Then re-approach her later. I can’t tell you how many girls have run off on me, then I approach them half an hour later and they’re like “Oh it’s you!” and then we hook up.
Why do women leave? Again, they’re NERVOUS.
Have you ever approached a hot girl and things were going TOO WELL? The girl is smiling and laughing…. she’s responding well… and…. you freak out! You don’t know what else to do, but you don’t want to fuck it up, so you leave set!
GIRLS DO THIS TOO. Women will “run out of things to say” and run away because they’re nervous and overwhelmed by being in a high value person’s presence, same as guys will.
Let her go, then re-approach her next time you see her.
She will respond extremely well 90% of the time in my experience. She’ll literally be GRATEFUL to you that you gave her another chance. Women have told me this explicitly.
#4. If you’re talking to a girl and she tells you outright that you should leave, or says “well, you should go back to your friends”, “it was nice meeting you”, etc.
Smile, nod, agree, and then continue talking to her as if she said nothing. Never leave set because a girl tells you to.
SHE can walk away if she wants. She has that right.
But in a public space like a bar or nightclub, you’re well within your rights to talk to whoever you want.
It’s Saturday night. It’s a social environment. You’re mixing with people.
You’re free to talk to whoever you want, and she’s free to walk away at any time.
But if she tells YOU to leave, it’s simply a test of your frame. She wants to see that you won’t buckle under social pressure.
Pass the test by ignoring it. If she tells you to leave again, look her in the eye with a sly smile and say “You’re free to go if you want to.”
Her eyes will light up and she’ll punch you in the arm. Pussy dampening commences.
#5. You’re talking to a woman and there’s an uncomfortably long lull in the conversation.
Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.
#6. You approach a woman, or a group of women, and they attempt to mock or belittle you.
They’re nervous around you because you’re the alpha male in the environment. (As demonstrated by the fact that you approached.)
They feel uncomfortable in your presence because you’re high value, and so they’re trying to maintain frame by making nervous jokes.
Smile, nod, agree, and keep talking to them AS IF they were being perfectly nice to you. If you act like they’re being civil, eventually their frame will buckle to yours and they actually WILL begin to act civil.
That’s the nature of having a stronger frame: you create reality. Other people adjust themselves to it.
TL;DR
1. Women value you because you have a STRONGER FRAME than them. That’s all.
2. To figure out if you’ve got a strong frame, women test you. These tests come in the form of indifference, bitchiness, aloofness, personal insults, etc.
3. You don’t have to do much to pass these tests. You just have to ENDURE them, keep talking to her, teasing her a little and being normal. Over time, her frame will buckle and she’ll become aroused by you because she sees you have a strong frame that can’t be pushed around.
4. Attraction is a passive, not an active process. You attract hot girls by outframing them. You outframe them by enduring their tests without it breaking your frame. Eventually they “buckle” to you and become wet, laugh at your jokes, ask you what you’re doing later, etc. Then you can take her hand and lead her to the sex location and she’ll be compliant.
5. The hotter the woman, the harsher will be her tests. Paradoxically, this can actually make hotter women easier to attract, because if you can endure her tests you stand out massively from other guys. Compare to an average girl: her tests won’t be as hard, so you have to pass more of them and spend more time with her before she can see you’re strong
If you’ve found this guide helpful, you might like my blog. Start with my most popular post: [The Ultimate Guide To "Same Day Sex"] (http://insurgentmedia.tv/how-to-have-sex-with-a-woman-youve-just-met/)
TheOneWhoDidntCum 6 years ago
Things become true to us through repetition, not through logic.
This is GOLDEN, not because of women because of the nature of reality.
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akakidude 6 years ago
This blew my mind, quite literally.
bikerboyhayden 6 years ago
So I am reading this and I am like what happens when they theater to call the police because you won't leave. Then I remembered way back when I lost my virginity freshmen year of college I was faced with almost the same problem. I got invited to watch a movie with this cute girl in her dorm room. Anyhow, I show up in my comfy clothes with lots of condoms ready to watch a movie and hopefully lose my v card. Start talking about common stuff and all of a sudden she says "sam you an asshole leave now". I am like shit test "No you leave" this you leave no you leave scream match went on for a good min and I was very concerned that the RD or RAs would hear and come and get me for sexual harassment or something since I wasn't leaving a girls room when she was yelling at me to. And then all of a sudden she hit me in the face super hard and I got a little mad and just said wow you got a weak arm. Then she said well before we get kicked out of the dorms for abuse you should shut the door. I did so and she ripped my clothes off. definitely was the hardest shit test I have ever received and passed.
Also realized that the hottest girl I've got with easy 9.5. was at a party when I somehow got introduced to this girl and then she was giving easy bs and my friends went with her white knighting for her laugh at them and said and who just made out with your girl bro and the group of guys just walked of and this super hot shy girl bit her lip lean in and started a great convo with me and then this rude asshole butted in and started hitting on her and gave him a compliment and starting a great conversation with him and completely ignored the fact that he butted in our private convo. she left and started talking to this big jacked football player and I got super disappointed. right then the cops came and the owners started kicking us out so I ran up and said we never finish our conversation what your snapchat in front of the football player glaring down at me and she goes thanks for coming back and asking here. hit here up 2 days later with so what were you saying when we got interrupted and she says ill be more than happy to tell you in person. We tried sex in a small car and it didn't work so she brought me back to her place and the rest is a history lesson about approaching the second time.
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PC_2_weeks_now 6 years ago
Some point are valid fellas, but as with all things, you have to look further ahead and not believe internet posts. Take in some points if you need to, but everyone is different. Plus this guy wants a girl he porked on their first date to have his kids as stated in another comment which i wont give a shit to copy and paste here. His points are great and concise, but so are yours. Be strong, be smart, train your body, do what you like, put yourself out there, and try to increase your income. Dont bash the man for trying to help you get pussy.
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Pleb_Penguin 6 years ago
I know someone that goes on this subreddit, and he recently got kicked out of Layola for sexual harassment. Yeah no thanks.
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johnnnyrs 6 years ago
5. You’re talking to a woman and there’s an uncomfortably long lull in the conversation.
Stare into her left pupil while saying nothing. Instant sexual tension.
hahahah... is this supposed to be a joke?
Kingern 6 years ago
Ctrl + F "Hypergamy" No matches found
I really like a lot of this post but statements like "women don't have standards" and "religiously deny objective reality to make yourself feel better" are in direct conflict with two absolutely critical redpill observations, and seeing them in here is rather concerning
Insilencio 6 years ago
Posting to find later. This looks super interesting!
sloppy_jay 6 years ago
HAHAHA..
Okay wait.. that's not funny. It sounds like you're more of a date rapist/rapist than a ladies man. You really think women all say yes when they mean no, ignore men for attention, and ask you to leave them alone just so you continue to pursue them?
It's much more likely the woman is ignoring you or telling you to leave them alone because they don't want to talk to you. Now leave us alone. Kbye.
clutchtho 6 years ago
holy fuck this is the stupidest thing i've ever read lmao.
vwcrane13 6 years ago
What are thoughts on paying or not paying on a first date?
TheSingularity01 6 years ago
First of all, awesome post OP. I also followed you on twitter. I assume that's the girl you wrote about in your profile pic?
So today at the gym was my first attempt at maintaining frame in a long, long time. I mean, a real concerted self-aware attempt. Immediately, I set myself up for failure because the idea that women don't want to be approached in the gym seeped into my mind. But I continued forward and refused to not follow through; you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
HB8, probably 18 or 19 was on her smart phone balancing herself on the weighted assist dip machine. Instead of waiting for a better opportunity where I could face head on and mirror her body language or standard AMOG posture, I approached with her positioned perpendicular to my body, her facing to my left. I said to her, "No phones in the gym, what do you think you're doing". I'm almost positive she thought I was dead serious and looked out of the corner of her eye with a bitchy stuck up look. Usually I make it a point to never say "just joking", or "just teasing", but stupidly I did with a coy smile. That was me breaking frame immediately and quickly. I suppose I should of said "*hey, my name is Thaddeus Silkwood, good workout so far* or something like that. Or instead of saying "just joking*", albeit she did then look at me in smile when I did.
So after she smiled, I did the introduction I wrote above, not offering my hand to shake. ( I seem to recall an unwritten rule that you don't offer your hand to a
ladydumb bitch unless she offers hers first ). Anyway, after I introduced myself, she responded with an "okay" and nothing else. I didn't maintain frame once again, and said, "alright, have a good workout" with a dismissive tone because I was already pissed off. I mean why hasn't this bitch asked to blow me in my truck already? haha.In retrospect, I should of continued on and said "so, do you need some tips on using the machines in here or something", some kind of neg tease. But anyway, practice makes perfect and that's the first cold approach I've done in many months as I've been doing monk mode. Again, great thread OP, I'll have to check out your blog.
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TruthInArt 6 years ago
Reading number 17 made me feel like a weight had been lifted off my shoulders. I've been in Monk Mode for 6 months, swallowed for 12. I just finished The Subtle Art of How Not to Give a Fuck. Being Alpha isn't one of my values anymore and #17 gave me permission to drop it. Underlying problem is that I equate sex with success since I'm a Virgin. Thanks for the guidance.
xddm2653 6 years ago
I fucking love the red pill..3 years in and never felt more like a warlord
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theOneUpper15 6 years ago
Hey really appreciate your sharing your perspective on approaching women and your methodology. Its a fresh perspective while controversial, it definitely stirs up new ideas and possibilities.
The consistent narrative I gather from your post is its all about having the stronger "Frame", and letting the woman's Frame eventually submit to yours. Practically I understand practically this would look like persistence + unreactiveness to her (tests) + positivity.
I was wondering if you have recorded a real life example of this and can share it. If not can you point me towards recorded examples of a guys Frame winning over a woman's, in the face of continuous shit testing?
nmorpus1 6 years ago
Yeah. Everything in this is wrong lol. Kinda rapey vibes.
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HedoNNN 6 years ago
Are you monsieur Pook by any chance?
nrque 6 years ago
A Thank you would not be enough for the high value of content that you've put out for us. Cheers mate. Keep up the good work.
Oh1FiftyFivee 6 years ago
What about the attractive girls who DON'T shit test? Like the ones who are easy to talk to at first and almost "overly nice". So nice they seem to almost belittle you like they are doing an incredible thing by talking to you.
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saynotocomicsans 6 years ago
So much frame in this post, get this guy some pictures for them.
newls 6 years ago
All the commenters asking "but is this reeeaal?" are completely missing the point.
I loved this post, just reading it made me feel inspired and put me in a more confident and excited mood. It bred new ideas that I'm excited to try out.
When I go and talk to a girl, she'll then sense that, and we'll all have a better time. OP has done something hugely positive with this thread. Don't hate, congratulate.
meh613 6 years ago
Any reason for the left pupil?
kaiserpuss 6 years ago
Does that mean a more attractive guy has a stronger frame than a less attractive guy?
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stomponthesun 6 years ago
http://lookism.net/Thread-r-TRP-autists-says-looks-don-t-matter-in-obtaining-super-model-tier-women-9-s-10-s
_Serene_ 6 years ago
First of all, you may find this as nitpicking but your constant mention of the word "frame" kind of reduced the reading quality throughout your post. You said it 59 times. I think that's something that you perhaps should keep in mind and avoid, if you decide to do any future post installments.
Anyway, now onto the post. Your message here is essentially that humans have an engraved mechanism in their brain in order to prevent the human species from going extinct, therefore "here's how women test you and work when they choose their mate". You could've easily broke down your post into a few paragraphs and made the point: Women are attracted by a biological perspective which means a woman search and choose men based on their natural instinct which tells them to look for a man which possess the following traits and abilities:
These are the most crucial considerations for a woman when they want to choose a mate. Then there's of course some other personality traits which I mention later on (which obviously are subjective to each person).
I feel like this is common knowledge and didn't see a need to repeat it throughout your post, making it feel like an unnecessarily long read.
And you would seriously continue pursuing a woman after they treat you like that? No man with self-respect would want to spend his time with that kind of woman. Also, no respectable woman would act in such a degrading manner to a fellow human, presumably you've had some bad luck in this area and are speaking from what normally would be a rare occasion. I know that some people may be into this, for who knows what reason but what I meant is in regards to what the majority of people on earth behave like.
Once again, similar to one of your earlier examples but this is simply inaccurate and misleading. Most women are interested in men with intelligence, humour and someone who can provide, like earlier stated. I think you've just had some strange experiences or are perhaps misinformed. Spending time with a partner would reveal if it's the right one, I don't understand why you have to keep bringing up examples of a woman acting in a deprecatory way to find out if it's the right choice. It certainly isn't the way women generally go/should go about it.
Nonetheless I thought you had a decent post even though I had some criticism regarding it, which is why I replied. I didn't like either that you focus your post and basically state that "women owns you", or was it only me who felt that way? A lot of it is also just your personal thoughts/opinions and isn't based on factual evidence but that's fine, you seemed to have started a discussion which I assume was one of your motives behind this.
I know that it's a bit late to post here but I figured that I might as well share my thoughts too since it's only a month old as of me posting this comment.
[deleted] 6 years ago
one of the only posts that i can agree with in this sub.
AragorntheMighty 6 years ago
What would you do if she told you, she had a bf?
AragorntheMighty 6 years ago
Me reading this article, is similar to the Green Lantern's ring being given to a six year old child. They wouldn't know exactly what to do with it, but they would definitely try it out.
Very good read though, well thought out, and not at all bull headed like some of the articles on here. Thanks for sharing.
iamthedaymanahhah 6 years ago
I asked a dude if he wanted to fuck and he said "no man I'm not gay" but ever since I read this post I understand that was only a test. I now fuck dudes on the regular. I pass all of their tests. I am the true alpha
[deleted] 6 years ago
This is all great, but you missed the most fundamental thing: you have to go out and practice frequently, otherwise all of this means nothing. And by practice, I mean actively approach girls, get rejected, eat shit, and learn.
An example of how guys lose their frame is by losing their temper, becoming aggressive, hitting people, and getting into reddit fights.
Actually having a strong frame is a result of practice. Women can have a strong frame, it has nothing to do with hormones.
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daydreamin511 6 years ago
You know I haven't visited red pill in a while and I decided to check out the top posts this month to see if there are any insightful, refreshing posts.
I'm glad I read this. While it certainly isn't refreshing given the amount of content I read a few years ago, it sounds very true.
It's a mindset that never shatters your self confidence. Ive been out experience life more and I have to say the part about maintaining frame is correct. I've had my fair share of not maintaining my frame but boy when I maintained it, you can FEEL the attraction and tension. It's like they feel very interested when you pass their tests with flying colors.
Like I've gotten shit tested many times and I've grown to just enjoy it. I'd take shit testing over full blown disinterest. It makes the game easier to play because I have something to work with. Indifferent girls are a lot harder to work with but your insight on it being a form of shit tests has definitely piqued my interest.
Solid post my guy.
IronedSandwich 6 years ago
thanks, the Incredicel Hulk
lauren646 6 years ago
This is incredibly written. I've definitely given the 'bitch face' before and still ended up with the guy. Manliness is sexy.
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Sweedie 6 years ago
TRP logic seems to be:
Bitch gives positive response = SHE'S INTO YOU!!
Bitch gives negative response = SHE'S INTO YOU!!
Bitch files a restraining order and reports you for sexual harassment = SHIT TEST ALERT, GUYZ!!
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
Yeah I know this post was ridiculous. Essentially what he's saying is that IODs are all shit tests. Wrong. Big difference between a shit test and an IOD. Shit tests are accompanied with IOIs. IODs are not.
This guy is an idiot and going against all game advice accrued over the past 15 years.
Sweedie 6 years ago
It's probably good for the ego though. ;)
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INTJokes 6 years ago
Hey Arnold makes way more sense now.
Sweedie 6 years ago
It can be really annoying though when you're trying to eat + have earphones in + are reading something and a guy approaches you and won't leave you alone because he's convinced you're just playing hard to get and are actually DTF.
Like, no dude I'm just trying to eat my sandwich.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Understandable.
The problem is that most men have had the experience of getting a "no" from a woman, continuing to persist, and then ending up in a relationship with that girl.
In fact, that's how every meaningful romantic relationship I've ever had started.
It's quite possibly how your parents met.
Sweedie 6 years ago
I guess you just have to be lucky and target the right girl then! And no, I'm pretty sure it wasn't, my dad was a nerd and they met as teenagers and had sex and then broke up.
[deleted] 6 years ago
bluepill nonesense, especially your second point
looks are literally the only thing that matter
you're delusional af if you think a konfident 5'2'' ugly ethnic would slay more (or at all tbh) than O'pry or Barrett even if they acted like complete beta cuckolds. the only time uglycels are ever going to get laid is when they meet tryone after the girls they try initiating contact with call the cops on them.
dunk_hs 6 years ago
This was a great read actually.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
You're right that placebo effect plays a major role.
I don't see that as inherently negative, however. Studies have shown that placebos work even when people know they're being given a placebo.
I recommend reading Placebos by Seth Godin. It's a short e-book which you can read for free at his website here: http://sethgodin.typepad.com/files/placebo-godin.pdf
He mainly talks about it in the context of marketing, but placebo (i.e. self-hypnosis) is very useful in dating.
Imadejust4this 6 years ago
First High Value post I have seen around here in ages. Well done.
aherne18 6 years ago
There is a grain of truth in this, but it's like listening to an intellectual version of "a man of Jesus". Whatever he says will form a prelude to a later lie: here TRP dogmas about "shit tests".
The whole discourse is based on the veracity of that mysterious force that I never saw in real life (but "you just have to wait and Jesus is there in the corner"). What exactly are "shit tests"? Nothing more than an "enlightened" hamster used by unattractive men to rationalize rejections!
But there IS a grain of truth in original post. You can indeed circumvent/prevent rejections through dominance, status and frame, but that has its limits too. If circumstances are perfect, you may fuck her and she won't have a Sahara snatch (which is an achievement only because you haven't seen better), but in the long term if you make the mistake of sticking with her you have everything to lose.
Case in point: OP LTR-ed someone who originally loathed him. Maybe he managed to miraculously change her mind (but I don't believe in miracles, sorry Jesus), but more likely he's just a nice guy she thought as a perfect settling down opportunity.
Before injecting yourself with feel-good bullshit, have a shower of reality and grow some spine! You are not her monkey, you are not there to perform for her, you are not to wag your tail to someone who "looked at me like I had leprosy". How in the name of Jesus Christ would anyone still be around and actually pursue (!!!) someone who behaves like that is beyond my understanding...
These words: "She was just shit testing you because you have TOO HIGH VALUE"
Ring like a variation of: "It's the DEVIL that made her react that way!"
qpxb 6 years ago
I'm conflicted when reading this post and others like it here on TRP.
On one hand, I feel motivated while reading stuff like this. It feels good to be assured that it's me holding me back. That I am the limiting factor in this equation.
On the other hand, I feel like a lot of this is just pulled out of the OP's ass and presented as absolute truth that cannot be contradicted.
On the other-other hand, I'm thinking: "what's the harm?"
If I followed the advice in the post, I would approach more women. I would approach them with confidence and I wouldn't back off after the slightest hint of adversity. To me, that's just giving myself the best shot I can.
jomavi12 6 years ago
Excelent post. Thank you for sharing.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks! Glad you liked it
SlumpDOCTOR 6 years ago
Can you answer the following question seriously? Why do you fuck girls? What is your intent?
MikeHaines 6 years ago
I enjoy their femininity.
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norcalguy510 6 years ago
Hey man, just wanted to thank you for sharing this with alot of us men who would mever have thought of this "frame" approach to women. Went out last night and secured 3 numbers in a couple hours. Thanks brother
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks man! Glad to hear you're taking action.
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
3 options here:
(1) Learn to get good at pulling on the same night. This is not easy, but it's possible. And when you do it a few times, it becomes effortless as you transition from "conscious incompetence" to "unconscious competence". Flake rate is close to zero with girls you've already fucked. This option requires that you build the skill of leading.
(2) Run VOLUME. You can get laid just by taking numbers and going on dates, but you have to approach it like a marketing funnel. Know in advance that for every 10 numbers you take, 9 will flake, 1 will go on a date. This option requires you to do a LOT of approaches on a regular basis and make approaching part of your lifestyle.
(3) Upgrade your text game to minimize flaking. This is something I've been experimenting with recently and getting good results. It's too complicated to explain here but I might do a post on it in future.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Awesome post OP. Never really thought about it from that perspective.
However, Would be awesome if more of these hos had some decency and would start approaching me. It happens once in awhile, but cot damn. I finally went up to this one girl talked to her and asked her for her number, she was like finally you decided to come up to me and how shes not getting any younger. I just dont understand why if a girl likes me, why she doesnt approach me. I like bad bitches so It is what it is. It would just be a lot quicker if some of these girls would have a tad bit of courage. Literally this girl who approached me while I was out and gave me her number, seemed to be mad at me for her having to come up to me and give me her number. How am i suppose to know she is that interested in me and wanted to give me her number and possibly let me fuck.
Aaronindhouse 6 years ago
If only women acted more like trump and grabbed men by the dong when they want some. Confusion would be no issue.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Lol. I mean it would be nice if at least some of these girls where more obvious that they like me and want me to ask. Realistically If would be better for girls that do like me to just come up to me and talk to me. Like Ive previously stated I'm a bit slower to know when a girl likes me. Like sometimes I'm completely oblivious. Sure if a girl comes up to me and is like hey my girlfriend wants to know if you are in a relationship with anyone. Thats pretty obvious that she likes me.
-Universe- 6 years ago
Thank you very much for this. I found RSD guys 6 months ago and they are very good not only at pick up but also at life advice. I love Tyler.
MrBallin 6 years ago
During daytime settings (daygame/ streetgame) when the girls are walking and try to ignore you (they usually stop for me tho), what is rejection? How much should i push? 4th "NO"? I know theres a thing between hard "no"s and shittest "no"s but where do you guys draw the line and be like "Ok well this is prolly gonna get me in trouble better bounce"
AttackOnKvothe 6 years ago
Ooook....
No offense, but this looks more like "Abussive women are ok because it's all TRP in the end, you are just a cuck libtard who doesn't get it" self-delussion than actual advice.
yeah, I get it. Women shit-test men and all that. Ok, I agree with you.
But there not only should be, there IS a limit on "shit-tests"
If she says "Oh, you are such a player, I bet you say the same to all the girls" she is shit-testing you.
If she sets you on fire, she is a crazy psycho. No shit test, no bullshit. Its her fault, it's not yours for not being "manly enough"
I belive your post doesn't convey that, it just focuses on "over-frame the woman"
They are very good and valid advices, but if taken in it's entirety, this can be read as an "always be alert because life is a total chaotic war".
Nah man, sometimes I wanna relax with a girl. If she shit-test me, I will go with another who actually prefers to talk about random shit before fucking wildly.
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outofyourDreams 6 years ago
This was a better article than I thought it would be. But still, I couldn't help but laugh at "Physiologically, girls can’t even become wet for a guy who has a weaker frame than they do. It’s literally impossible." I dare to disagree
ShrinkingShadows 6 years ago
Amazing post! I read this before going to a club last night and it totally gave me the confidence to take home a 24 year-old 7/10 with ease. What really helped me was your focus on "be relaxed" and the idea that keeping frame makes you attractive no matter what. I was in a 1-year cold streak after my girlfriend broke up with me. Now I've been shifting to Red Pill for just a month or so and your post pushed me to my first success. Thanks!
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Fucking beautiful. Congrats on being an action taker, I'm really glad this got you some solid results.
paksat 6 years ago
terrible
basically all of it
I'm 7 for 7 on chicks over at my place so far for anyone wondering. First time over, all of them with clothes off within the first 2-3 hours
This advice is trash i'm sorry but I gotta say it. Especially 14 lol, "oh you gotta a d*ck so she wants you"
bruh every dude has a fuking d*ck and every girl does not want you
The best quick real advice I've ever seen for you guys to read would be the 16 commandments of poon ( google it )
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks for the feedback, glad you got a system that works for you!
MikePatton-yakyakyak 6 years ago
One of my exes told me that she used to fingerbang herself to the scent of my shirts when I wasn't around.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
No doubt.
PrawDuhJee 6 years ago
Interesting post, What are methods to building a stronger frame?
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Very common question in these replies. Will be the basis of my next post on TRP.
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
Cheers!
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
Take action, approach a lot of women, endure their tests, make a lot of mistakes. This is how you develop intuition. It can't be taught to you by someone else. You have to learn from your own experiences. That's how you develop "instinct" -- the ability to mind read, essentially.
vlodia 6 years ago
Thank you for opening the matrix once again.
Wolffy93 6 years ago
You know... honestly I was getting discouraged. In terms of women, career, finances, not making gains quick enough in the gym. But boy did this just whip me into shape. I needed to hear All of this. Especially the "You are Enough."
"You are enough" will fix So many problems so long as you put in the work as well. Suppose that is monk mode.
Also needed to hear someone in the comment section mention to just Get Out And Approach Now. Adopted the philosophy of monk mode and figured "If I work hard enough, soon I will be able to get my first lay at the ripe age of 23 too! I just need to make 100k and be ripped before that!" ... such a toxic mindset. Didn't even REALIZE that until reading this post.
Lot of brutal truths here, delivered in a grasp-able way that newcomers like me can really take away a lot from.
EnzoGold 6 years ago
Mike this is really fucking good man! I really needed this. A true master piece.
coolredpill 6 years ago
first of all, thank you for this awesome post. i'll re-read it everyday.
a few questions
what to do when they reply with "i have a boyfriend" and walk away? trying to find an answer in the comments, but one time i approached a girl in a club, she immediately responded with that and walked away
i guess my overall question for both is how to draw the line from being too clingy
MikeHaines 6 years ago
angryguy4444 6 years ago
The ONLY advice anyone needs is "get out there and practice until you can develop your own system and write such a post yourself".
[deleted] 6 years ago
"5. The hotter the woman, the harsher will be her tests. Paradoxically, this can actually make hotter women easier to attract, because if you can endure her tests you stand out massively from other guys. Compare to an average girl: her tests won’t be as hard, so you have to pass more of them and spend more time with her before she can see you’re strong"
Reading through the OP post again, I wonder how many of you guys are overthinking everything because of these PUA guys.
The thing about attractive women, is they're just women. They act like other women do, mostly, and there's not a whole lot different in how they behave when they like you, vs average looking women. A lot of average women get hit on a lot, and with social media and stuff, they basically have inflated ideas on what their SMV probably is. Its been my experience that a lot of very attractive women slightly underestimate themselves, so they behave much the same as your average girl.
This is why I think a lot of this stuff is bullshit, just made up by guys who want to prey on the weak. Snake Oil, if you will.
I don't particularly respect Snake Oil salesmen. I'm here because I want to help the younger guys in particular, perhaps, since I think someone should. No one else is looking after them. After being lied to, and blue pilled, they come in here looking for help, and I want them to get that help. This is why posts like this actually make me a little angry.
Looks at some of these lies objectively, guys. We're talking frame, hold your damn frame and look at some of these claims honestly. He's telling "ugly" guys that they're being rejected because they're "Too high value." Does that sound like a legit thing?
Lets get back to reality here. If you're a 5 and you hit on a 9, she's going to make a face at you and move on with her day, and it has nothing to do with you being too high value. Don't try to neg her, you're a goddamn 5, so fix that.
I've approached women when I was a 130 pound skinny kid, and after working to improve my own SMV for years. I know what it feels like to try to hit on women without any real SMV, and what it's like when you are legitimately attractive. When I say "Drop the delusions, and get to work", I am saying so from a place of love, my friends. I have no incentive to lead you astray, I don't need you to come to my blog and buy any of my shit. I say this from a place where I'm passing on knowledge to a little brother, to pass on things I've learned in life, and to bring more value on those experiences.
Ignore these "Frame" posts. I think they're made by liars who want to take advantage of you. Instead improve upon yourself. Work on doing things you like doing in life, and enjoy your stay. There might not be anything waiting for you after this, after all. Women are people, not absurdly different from yourself in a lot of ways. Try to understand that there's not a lot that's actually about you, people just want what's best for them. If you improve yourself and you get to a place where you have very real value, you're going to find your confidence. You will notice that others want to be around you, both men and women, if you have real value. You won't have to go out there and put on a false face, and make believe that you are good enough. You'll just BE good enough. Understand?
Part of actually being the Warlord, vs playing make believe, is you will have earned Frame, and not irrational Frame. I don't know if that's a thing we discuss here.
Hypothetical situation. A chihuahua vs Pit Bull. The chihuahua has superdog "Frame" and really believes in himself. The Pit Bull is a Pit Bull.
You know the answer guys. Come on. DO NOT DRINK THE COOL-AIDE.
saladpurple 6 years ago
I like this, any more you can share?
johnnielittleshoes 6 years ago
I would say that chihuahuas CAN scare off pitbulls, solely based on their self image. Or cats vs. pitbulls. Or parakeets.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Can, sure. But 9 times out of ten, that'd be a dead chihuahua. You know the point I'm making here, stop being stupid.
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nadolny7 6 years ago
Holy shit and with this post and it's comments we advance in our collective knowledge. Learning so much right now, just realized that by not insisting with girls (unless explicitly told to gtfo) I'm just making myself not pass their tests. And know I have learned and know better than that, thanks for the post
TehJimmyy 6 years ago
If you’re talking to a girl and she tells you outright that you should leave, or says “well, you should go back to your friends”, “it was nice meeting you”, etc.
What about if shes at a table at a coffee place etc with her friends and she cant obviously leave them ?
For example i was hangin out with a girl and her ex came and i talked to him just fine and then after she looked at him and told him "You should be going now" . And he got up and left.
matrixpush 6 years ago
All that's missing is style's C's vs U's routine. Basically a call to early PUA, built on the premise that any lardass can impress women with his personality.
The reality of America:
https://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-49704.html
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Metalgear222 6 years ago
this post came in so clutch. i just started approaching hotter girls at my gym. I'm 25 and I approached a 35 yo HB9, and an 18 yo HB10. got both of their numbers under the guise of wanting to workout with them. after texting for a while both asked if it was really the reason I grabbed their number. to which I replied "tbh I thought u were pretty hot n wanted to meet u". both dug it and when I asked them why they gave their number to me, they both said something like "im attracted to confidence, i like that u just walked up and started talking to me". now im not a great looking dude but I have a year of lifting under my belt and I'm 5'8 170.
have dates set with both of these girls and they both text me first. 35 yo sends me pics of herself in little black dresses and 18 yo sent me lingerie before ive even hung with them. all from setting a playful, flirty, dominant frame with strong eye contact. just wanted to add my experience to silence the haters on this post that swear looks are most important.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Nice, great to see you're taking action.
sergeantbbbbs 6 years ago
Can attest to this. A few years ago in ibiza I'm sat on a bus on drugs and this 9 comes over and starts being very insulting to me very loudly, the worst comments you can imagine.
I sit there smiling, because I'm on drugs. She goes on for 10 minutes. As I'm getting off she says "do you wanna fuck me then?" Life is funny.
On another note, where do you draw the line between persistence and harassment? I find this difficult
mrfaku 6 years ago
Very insightful post, just what I needed, cleared up a lot of things I didn't quite understand until now. Just one question:
So if real rejection means her leaving and not coming back, but you are in a club or another social convention where your paths cross, when can you decide that the pussy is lost? When do women consider it creeping/stalking her?
Thank you again for the great post!
MikeHaines 6 years ago
You can keep trying up to 4 times of being "rejected", brushed off, whatever.
You'll often find she brushes you off the first 1 or 2 times, but if you keep persisting she quickly becomes warm and friendly.
Persisting more than 4 times though -- that's where you get into creepy territory/just wasting your time.
So I generally play it by the 4 Times Rule. (I didn't invent this rule, a guy called Alex did, but I've found it to work.)
[deleted] 6 years ago
When i read this, I think "This guy is the real deal and speaks from experience."
When i read 90% of posts here I think, "This guy is speaking of shit he has no experience with and is talking garbage."
We need more posts like this.
Rocky_Bukkake 6 years ago
honestly, good advice. a rarity on this page.
cashmoney_x 6 years ago
Oooorrrrrrr.......not jump through hoops like a fucking slaveboy and #mgtow this motherfucker. Haven't had sex in 4 years and my life has never been better (I'm dead serious on both counts). I did a pro/con list and dealing with women just ain't worth the physical pleasure/ego boost sex provides. What I lose there I make up for in a myriad of ways. Mentally and physically I have never been better.
LibertarianLibertine 6 years ago
You sack of shit, if you're not a loser you can build attraction with a woman through a normal enjoyable conversation. You don't need to ''jump through hoops'' to get laid.
You're just a loser whose involuntary celibate, like all MGTOW faggots.
no_face 6 years ago
TLDR:
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
bigcitytruth 6 years ago
Passing shit tests don't make women wet; failing shit tests make women dry. A subtle but important distinction. This list is good at the defense, but completely overlooks the offense - how to make them wet. Once you pass a bunch of shit tests, you're still going to have to make her want you. The key to making women wet is mastering the escalation of sexual tension and making her feel good. Really good. There's 1,001 methods on how to achieve this, and everyone has their own style (cocky-funny, aloof rockstar, mysterious Don Juan, playful daredevil, etc). Whatever the method is, you pull her by being the man that gives her the most tingles.
This is a decade old but a few things on here give a great summary of what I'm talking about:
http://www.vice.com/read/poster-v12n1
MikeHaines 6 years ago
hahaha oh for the days when Vice was actually good. Gavin McInnes is a beast
bigcitytruth 6 years ago
Old Vice = proto-red pill. New Vice = beta as fuck.
One_friendship_plz 6 years ago
Don't let the confirmation bias kick in when you come to this subreddit guys.
If you are doing overwhelmingly well in at least 2 quality areas you can still get laid.
Having frame just happens to be the easiest things to accomplish.
In other words, being overwhelmingly rich and not insane could get you laid, regardless of if you're a beta or not.
There are women who openly call their boyfriends beta cowards, which makes me believe that a woman can fuck a man even if she thinks he's a beta, if you're doing overwhelmingly well in the other areas.
If she's broke as shit and is about to get evicted, then walks in MR moneybags, she's going to get wet.
It's just not the most optimal path.
You can get laid, it just won't be like the movies.
Being beta doesn't mean you'll die a virgin. It means you don't have the right to pick & choose who you want, what your type is, and how often you'll have sex.
PC_2_weeks_now 6 years ago
Money makes life easier. And some hot ass women would pit.out than work, amd thats ok
[deleted] 6 years ago
29
Biggest take away from this post IMO with where I'm at. One time this girl straight up told me, I can't date you anymore because it makes me worried to know that you have so many options and that you could leave me so easily at any time.
VasiliyZaitzev 6 years ago
Meh. I liked this better when it was called Uncle Vasya’s Guide On Dating Models but then again, I'm biased. /grin
MikeHaines 6 years ago
I'm gonna be honest with you, that's pretty dope. "Possession of the Ass is 9/10th of the Law." I love it
CRAIBaby 6 years ago
Vasiliy, much respect to your contributions.
Could you checkout my comment above and tell me what you think?
slurmfactory 6 years ago
Goddamn this is fucking gold. I'm in a LTR now, after having some great success using PUA tactics and TRP mindset, but this can help even in LTR. frame > all. Being relaxed > women's erratic personalities.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Nice man, yeah I'm in a serious LTR and I find it's just as applicable
ReddittFeist 6 years ago
Going to add something my PU mentor said to me:
"Game never ends"
What he means was, you can never get lazy with a woman, no matter what kind of relationship you're in, and that means you keep using game principals, even after she's "committed" herself to you. Dating, LTR, even married, poly, you have to use the same principals all the time.
Rock solid frame. Especially a commitment to completely shut down bad behavior. Personal improvement. Dread. Cocky & Funny. Absolute, Complete Outcome Independence.
You have to have it when you first meet them in the club or the bookstore or coffee shop.
You have it every minute of every day with them.
This concept has served me well.
Postscript: This is exactly the same principal women need to keep in mind.
Girls need to keep using Girl Game on their man. Think about how uspet you'll get as a guy if you commit to a girl and then she stops taking care of herself: gets fat, eats cake and gets pimples. She gets lazy about shaving, and then to top it off she stops wearing good looking clothes and ambles around in sweats all day. Then she can't be bothered to fuck you like a woman, so that she's giving you lower-quality fucks than a fleshlight would.
You'll get frustrated with her, warn her, and then finally if she won't clean up her act, you'll dump her ass.
Same principals guys. Your woman needs to give you what you need, and you need to give her what she needs, every day.
And shout out to @MikeHaines for laying it all out so well.
ecosci 6 years ago
All this just to get female validation it wont work against female nature so stop coming up with guides and safegaurds she (is) going to cheat or get bored eventually if you are doing anything for the sake of women youve already lost the game they only are attracted to selfish assholes dont waste time and energy figuring out females take care of you first.
TheChosen1Xod 6 years ago
Very good and insightful post. Two questions though:
What does a real rejection look like? The post seems to suggest that most all rejections are a test.
And with the boyfriend excuse, is it best to just abandon set after that or keep trying? How can you tell if it's true or not while not wasting time?
trp_dude 6 years ago
She smiles, and tells you warmly, "I'm sorry, you look like a nice guy but I'm afraid I have a boyfriend."
That's a true rejection, my friend, when she lets you down gently.
whodeannny 6 years ago
My response to 'I have a boyfriend' is 'don't worry, I'm not the jealous type'.
thewritingtexan 6 years ago
Or firmly and strongly telling you "no" or the countless other things she could say which infer she doesnt want to talk to you.
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Packie1990 6 years ago
Not all rejections are a test but what hes saying is if you destroy her rejection then she will second guess it theb you have a chance. As far as the boyfriend thing goes. It could be a test or it could be true. I would say just be more aware of it. One way is too call them out on it.I purposefully don't disengage after that because it makes you just look like your trying to sleep with them. I continue conversation and break away at a different part in the conversation.
[deleted] 6 years ago
when they ignore you and walk away. Happen to me once, it's funny tbh.
bsutansalt 6 years ago
Real rejection is them either telling you to fuck off or them walking away. Sometimes both. That being said, seeing either one is exceedingly rare and even when you do it often has less to do with anything you did and says more about their own situation.
Anything else can generally be treated as ambivalence at worst and them waiting for you to make a move at best.
edit: and keep in mind that if you get rejected, they're not rejecting you as a person. They don't even know you. All they're doing is rejecting your approach methodology or the logistics of their situation which may have no thing to do with you. Could very well just be she's there to meet up with Chad she's been looking forward to all week because he keeps flaking and she's afraid you'll cock block her. Stuff like that. Or she's married and her husband beats her if she talks to other guys, so you're talking to her will get her smacked around later if the husband finds out. Point being, do not take any of this shit personally.
Being rejected isn't her rejecting who you are as a person, but the situation at hand. Sure, she might just not like what she sees, but an iron-clad frame and rock solid game can overcome those personal preferences in many cases because women get turned on by more than just hard abs and height, which is the ultimate point of this thread.
ozaku7 6 years ago
Those a 2 obvious signs, but why would you even stick around if the woman in question is not interested during the interaction. I start talking to women I find interesting, and keep talking with those who are interested in me.
sgtslick 6 years ago
Yeah I find myself wanting to walk away big time if its not a 2 way conversation, and even then I can be pretty judgemental. I mean im not asexual or anything, but I find it hard to stick with it.
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fritzthekids 6 years ago
Rejection is her leaving and not coming back.
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fritzthekids 6 years ago
She's interested, but you fucked up. Just approach her and act like nothing happened. ALWAYS ACT LIKE NOTHING HAPPENED unless she brings it up. You need to show her you can hold frame and it didn't phase you AT ALL. If she brings it up you can explain yourself but nothing long "oh i had a drink to finish" is fine don't explain further. Just approach her and say hey you never came back for that drink did ya in a joking way. Then tell her to make it up to you by buying a drink for you. She declines or acts high class just ditch her and go find some other girl to seduce, she might even notice you don't care and that you're having fun without her and follow you and try to approach you again. Wall of text but hope this helps you.
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fritzthekids 6 years ago
Nah. Let her go, you're not gonna get her if you don't do what I said. Also classic case of oneitis just get her out of your mind.
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fritzthekids 6 years ago
I recommend you read the whole sidebar!
___Jamie___ 6 years ago
Nah that's a test too. She wants to see if you have the balls to break into her appartment at night :))
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
Then when you break into her room and she resists your advances it's a test to see if you're man enough to rape her. After the rape you win.
ManliestManAmongMen 6 years ago
When i read that, all i could think of was "So Bro.. You basically drugged her, then she started responding to the drugs and laughing uncontrollably till she passed out and you had sex with her while she was unconscious"
dr_warlock 6 years ago
This is actually how many females in the animal kingdom act. They deliberately throw themselves in a pile of males, after the most dominant male bashes through them, he goes for the female, then the female runs all over the place and attempts to fight him off. After forcing himself on her and a few thrusts, she calms down and lets him finish. "If you could force it, it was yours all along" is the mantra. How much this applies to human females, I'm not sure.
___Jamie___ 6 years ago
Most people stop there. Most people are wrong! That's the final test. She wants to know that you know that most women(people really) will stab you in the back given the chance. She will most likely call the police on you after you leave. You pass the test by murdering her and hiding her body in a nearby river. Every night she will appear to you in your dreams, giving you a sort of spiritual hug that emphasises adoration for the only real man she ever knew- the man who passed all the tests :)
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cosine88 6 years ago
If you fight off the police and approach her a third time, are you finally alpha?
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
You're not alpha until the rape is complete and you've got her pregnant against her will.
justameremortal 6 years ago
If you read the post he points out that could be the chick getting nervous.
Honestly I've brought so much into shit tests that I couldn't imagine a hot chick getting nervous until now. Jesus
cuntweiner 6 years ago
The real answer is women don't reject. They throw shade until you reject yourself. Some guys reject themselves before even approaching, some guys never give up, which leads to either banging the girl or a restraining order (edit: or relegation to beta orbiter).
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justameremortal 6 years ago
Well if she runs away yelling multiple times she probably is not interested hoss
cuntweiner 6 years ago
Yea surely, but that kinda falls under restraining order. If a girl has to raise her voice and physically flee you to the point of making a scene, she is trying to get others involved to separate you. Most guys will reject themselves before this point though, and it's really only an issue with creepy guys that make women feel threatened.
justameremortal 6 years ago
Yeah I was exaggerating. I'd stop after she leaves twice
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akru3000 6 years ago
respond, we barely know each other and you're already thinking about my D*ck? Then keep conversation going?
[deleted] 6 years ago
You'd think so, but....
My frind's wife was/is a stripper. At the end of teh night they usually con some Beta to buy them breakfast. Me and my friends went with.
The entire time she made fun of my potential little dick. She claimed she can't even imagine me getting laid. I just chuckled and nodded like "you have jokes. Cute."
So tell me why at the end of the night (morning when they ditched the beta) she admits she is sexually unsatisfied. And she has dreams of sex with a black guy and she tells me she even came?
This is my good bro so I didn't do anything, but you tell me what all that was about.
RedDeadCred 6 years ago
If she brings up sex it means she's thinking about it. That statement is a green light.
ZlatanchesterUnited 6 years ago
if she's already talking about you in bed, she's already thinking about it. You are in a good position
poopcasso 6 years ago
Since you're premeditating on questions like this, your inner game isn't ready yet. And if your inner game isn't ready yet, no answer will satisfy you or your imaginative scenarios, cause you will find ways to excuse yourself out of action.
Praecipuus 6 years ago
Tell her not to worry about that, and that your average-sized dick will feel huge when it's in her butthole.
RPM4 6 years ago
Try again later in the night. Act as if that didn't happen.
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BreathOfDick 6 years ago
Irrational self confidence. 'Too dumb to fail' as RSD says.
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185poundsofhatredWIP 6 years ago
Have you ever been in that kind of a situation?
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185poundsofhatredWIP 6 years ago
In a situation where the woman is straight out rude.
Maybe I'd be better off deluded, but I'm not. I know that most hot chicks I'd approach wouldn't be interested in me at all.
Xakarath 6 years ago
Your words becomes your reality
[deleted] 6 years ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.2294
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kittythecat77 6 years ago
Yeah, but women love attention, plus a persistent/persuasive man gives us the tingles. You could come off autistic to a SJW/feminist but to the feminine girls you would come off as cute or funny and sexy.
ozaku7 6 years ago
Ofcourse that's only when he is attractive himself aswell. I doubt you will get tingles from quasimodo persuading you.
kittythecat77 6 years ago
Ahahahah attention from quasi is better than NO attention at all. So even him can and will fuck if he has game. ;)
ozaku7 6 years ago
Given that the women is desperate enough for Vitamin D, yes. Put it from a different perspective, I bet she would make him fuck her because noone would want to be rejected by quasimodo, haha.
faded_jester 6 years ago
I'm sure she has lots of sex with butt ugly men who won't take no for an answer.
ozaku7 6 years ago
You can still shoot bullseye with the most disformed arrow, just not as often as with a straight one, but never if you don't shoot any.
kittythecat77 6 years ago
Honestly the few men I had sex with/relationship/severe "oneitis" for them, are not considered attractive by most women, they were just my type, my 10. They had everything that turns me on (masculine face,were bulky and short as well, just a little taller than me- I'm 5'5'').
faded_jester 6 years ago
So you did find them attractive.
Did you have a point?
kittythecat77 6 years ago
I did, but that doesn't mean they were attractive indeed. A quasimodo can be a girl's type and can be perceived as attractive, but if he doesn't approach and pass the shit tests, he'll never find out. Or is my point of view just a whole lot of hamstering? I'm confused, I don't know. Ugly people get laid too though.
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PenisPeddler 6 years ago
This is autistic as fuck. For any readers - dude don't do this.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
If she says something like that and you are truly non-reactive (calm gaze and continuing to talk to her normally), she'll become more attracted to you than if she'd never said anything bad at all. Meditation helps with cultivating non-reactivity.
candyman420 6 years ago
You know, it actually is reasonable to assume that not all women want to be picked up at all times. Your post is good, but leaves no accounting for the fact that some people just want to be left alone.
jazerac 6 years ago
Ya they aren't going to be interested or happy if they currently have a vaginal infection.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
No one "wants" to be sold something by a door to door salesman, yet billions of dollars of goods are sold by door to door salesmen every year.
Use common sense. Don't harass women or be aggressive.
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
IODs are real shit stain. Get it through your head.
candyman420 6 years ago
Unless you're the type of person that slams the door without a word.
Give me a break. Not everyone is the same.
TryHardDaily 6 years ago
That isn't the point of this post, the point is that you are the salesman, going out and making a shitload of money. You really think that you are going to remember that douchebag at 617 Saints Street who slammed the door on you? No, because Steve down the block just spent $1200 on a vacuum.
Banincoming 6 years ago
So, in this analogy, did Steve suck his dick like a pro?
[deleted] 6 years ago
Probably not, Steve forgot how to give blowjobs because of his boyfriend's frame crashing here and there.
el_Technico 6 years ago
Don't be glib buddy, we're all friends here.
candyman420 6 years ago
Yes yes, the point of the post is persistence, that is obvious.
But it should be acknowledged that no amount of persistence is going to work on a person that doesn't want to be sold.
TryHardDaily 6 years ago
That is only part of the way true though. Sure, there will be times where a broad is totally turned off, but there are also times where a chick that was 100% turned off can be turned around simply by your "IDGAF what you think or say I am going to have a good time" attitude and conversation. There was a post a little while ago about being self amusing, and if you are there is a good chance that you can get any dumb hoe you want.
myInnerMars 6 years ago
what if I'm empathetic to their not wanting to be picked up for whatever reason and just don't want to be a dick? The post puts you in a situation that forces the woman to leave where she is or continue being harassed. I can't get behind that. I don't want to be that person.
you can be open to conversation, approach woman, not give a shit if they say no, not lose frame, still get numbers, and not sacrifice the part of you that cares about not being a dick.
in my case, it's not about identity. it would cause me actual pain to make someone feel like they had to run away from me in order to reject me. 2 chances. "don't be shy, im a great time" 2 no's is all I'm willing. I understand this means I miss out on pussy. peace of mind is worth much more.
candyman420 6 years ago
it's not about being turned off at all, that's what i'm saying. maybe her father died and she's out for a walk, and being seduced is the furthest thing from her mind. I could certainly understand this kind of burden they face from pushy people, at times.
CQC3 6 years ago
I get what you're saying, but it's up to you to fill in the blanks in terms of nuance and context. Nobody has time to delineate every single contingency. Use your head.
I do agree, not everyone can be sold. Some people WILL not be sold for reasons outside of your control. The most important point OP is making is that the MARGIN to which people are actually available to you is FAR greater than what most men believe.
Persistency is important because much like consumer oriented business, people don't really know what they want until you give it to them. People were probably skeptical about smart phones until somebody made one in the right way that MADE people want them. Same deal with MP3 players.
If there's a 100 girls, and most guys will assume say...30-40 are completely unavailable. But OP's posts suggests that in reality, it is more like only 1-5 are truly unavailable. Obviously those numbers are bullshit.
Context is most important, your examples don't hold up to gaming girls in social environments. The amount of persistence you use on a girl in a cafe or in the park is not the same as what you would use in the bar/club scene. They wouldn't be there if they weren't open to being gamed. You don't show up to the court and complain that some guys keep asking you to play a pick up game.
PC_2_weeks_now 6 years ago
As a baller, i like that last analogy. Damn right i came hoop. Damn right yall came to get whoop on son
candyman420 6 years ago
While probably true for some people, for others this is insulting.
Xakarath 6 years ago
In the sales industry we have a saying. 10% are always yes, 10% are always no. Your skill as a salesman is to sway the other 80%.
candyman420 6 years ago
And the difference between a good salesman and a douchebag is knowing when you are dealing with a 100% no person.
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candyman420 6 years ago
It's a completely incompatible analogy you are pushing. Some people just don't want to be sold, period. That's all I'm saying.
You can get their number and come back with another product all you want, and for these people, it will only piss them off more.
Persistence is usually good, but the counter-argument in this situation is worth acknowledging.
NotMyBestEffort 6 years ago
yeah .... but, the people who really don't want to be sold - are buying lots of shit every day - SOLD
candyman420 6 years ago
Come back to earth. The chick who is out on a walk and wants to be alone with her thoughts, maybe cause her father just died isn't going to give you the time of day. NO SALE
thelifeofbob 6 years ago
So when you say...
You don't actually mean it? Phew. I was about to have to look up "harassment" for you.
verdantsound 6 years ago
Say that two different women use the exact same line. One is interested, while the other wants to be left alone. How will you know whom is whom?
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
"What does a real rejection look like?"
No one can reject anyone. The reality of the world is that we're atoms and particles colliding with each other in empty space. Rejection is a mental concept which you're imposing onto that. Eliminate any mental concept that doesn't serve you. Delusional? Maybe, but it's worked out well for me.
"The boyfriend excuse, is it best to just abandon set after that or keep trying?"
Not intending to spam the comments here but I coincidentally just wrote a post on that which you can check out: http://insurgentmedia.tv/what-to-say-if-she-tells-you-she-has-a-boyfriend/
Bottom line: Don't take it seriously. Girls without boyfriends will say IHABF as a test. Girls with boyfriends will often hook up with you anyway due to natural selection positively selecting for women who are successful at paternity fraud. Not saying that you SHOULD fuck girls with boyfriends -- just that it's possible.
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[deleted] 6 years ago
I... I don't think just saying "I'll get you pretnant" will work as well as you wrote.. seriously smells like bullshit to me
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Read the Selfish Gene. Women have an instinctive urge to be impregnated. It's not something I like to play with much because by putting the idea in her head you're almost inviting her to get herself pregnant with you. But it is powerful. Tell a girl you're going to shoot a load into her and put a baby in her belly during sex -- feel how wet she instantly gets. It's instinctual.
ozaku7 6 years ago
That IHABF is not a test, but a filter to seperate the boys from the men. A man knows that talking to a girl isn't sexual, and her having a BF or not is irrelevant. I usually laugh the IHABF test off with "My buddy over there has a BF too, so what's your name?"
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zxcsd 6 years ago
I would lay off the physics because your not doing yourself any favors with your ignorance.
I think you're crossing a line to a dangerous frame of mind, people have free will, moods and emotions, it's not all about you and not everyone wants to get it on all the time.
And even if you could maybe change their mind, it's still not ok to harass 9 to get the 1.
189203973 6 years ago
Holy fuck some actual sanity in this thread. Thank you.
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TheMrYourMother 6 years ago
Are you autistic? There's no such thing as no? Really? If someone tells you no and you say "eh, they really mean yes" you're gonna end up in jail. If you approach a girl and kiss her and she says "no", and you keep going you're fucked.
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Shoobert 6 years ago
so by that logic if a guy wanted to fuck you and you said no, but he kept pressing you enough and eventually got what he wanted even though you didn't want it, it would ok? because there is no such thing as a NO, right?
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brianbria 6 years ago
Dude get therapy. You're extremely delusional, and I worry for yours and others safety.
Shoobert 6 years ago
well at least there is now no doubt that you are also an idiot on top of being a horrible human being.
TheMrYourMother 6 years ago
Have fun in jail after you rape someone. Fucking toxic, antisocial mindset.
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TheMrYourMother 6 years ago
No, that's not true. The belief that there is no such thing as no comes from a lack of understanding of how people function. If you truly believe someone saying no, is really them saying ehhhhh maybe, then you lack the skills to socialise in a tactful and effective way.
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
Sorry to hear it didn't connect with you
blackedoutfast 6 years ago
excellent post. this guy gets it. learn how to control the frame and the world is yours.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Typical pre-2014 era PUA bullshit; it's no surprise to me you mentioned you read and were influenced by RSD. So a strong frame is all it takes, huh? Listen, it's true the hottest women date all types. Sometimes they date hot male models. Sometimes they date low-life gangstas or drug dealers. Sometimes they date rich old men. But they're never going to date an average guy because of his "strong frame."
This is not what I see in real life. This is what exists in the theoretical bubble you've created in your mind an in attempt to boil pickup down to one easy thing. Let's deal in reality.
Looks-Height-Finances-Social Status. That's what women look for. You need to be perfect in one of those categories or above average in all of them to have a chance with the hottest women. Even the average women these days.
A strong frame... What a magic fucking wand this is, if only I had known!
MikeHaines 6 years ago
"Let's deal in reality."
Ok, here's the reality. Our minds are wired in such a way that we will find confirming evidence everywhere to support what we already believe. This is called confirmation bias.
If you believe (like I once did), that women are ONLY attracted to looks-height-money-status, you'll see confirming evidence for that everywhere, while unconsciously blocking out any evidence that contradicts it. This is how normal brains work.
I have found that viewing attraction as if it is purely about frame gets me better results than viewing attraction as if it's purely about status.
Which one is true? I don't know. I don't care.
I only care about results.
And if one lens through which to view of the world gives me happiness and sex and pleasure, and the other one doesn't, then I'll choose to see reality through the first lens.
This post explains what worked for me. But you don't have to adopt my lens of viewing the world if you don't want to. It's a free country.
rombios 6 years ago
much respect for the tone of this response.
[deleted] 6 years ago
I've gone through many working theories over the years including the standard PUA bullshit that you are espousing before finding what I consider to be pretty much the truth. I've found this by working in the nightlife industry with hired guns -- 8's, 9's, and 10's, and listening to conversations over the course of many years, and watching who they date. They often talk about how hot a guy is, how tall a guy is, how rich he is, how cool he is. Not once have they ever mentioned a guy's strong frame, or how he just wouldn't back down and he wore them down. Not once. Your post remains utter bullshit. Why so few are coming out to condemn this nonsense has me questioning the utility of this whole subreddit.
You even write like a 00's era pied piper PUA artist. The written equivalent of a sleazy car salesman's pitch. With the stupid italics and everything.
"My friends, I've discovered the one secret that will get women into bed with you. Thats right, this one secret is all you need to know. See, before I found this one secret, I was like you. Studying in my room on Saturday night. Missing invitations to parties. Thinking I would die alone. Then I found it. This one secret changed my life. And all it takes to learn this one secret is to sign up for my exclusive newsletter."
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Ok dude, sorry to hear it wasn't helpful to you. Thanks for your feedback.
Entropy-7 6 years ago
I do internet game rather than day game and cold approaches but a similar rule applies: swing for the bleachers!
It took about 50 openers to get 3 girls on the line. I had a first date with one on Monday; one seems good to go this weekend; the third likes to chat and will probably be down to meet when she returns home from college for the holidays.
The oldest is 18 years younger, the youngest is a teenager who is 31 years younger.
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IIlllIllIIIllIl 6 years ago
"Just be yourself" is literally the in the feminist manifesto for how to pick up women. If "just being myself" got me women, I would never have had the need to come here.
thehugejackedman 6 years ago
I'll break it down so it's easy for you.
Want a long lasting, successful relationship? Be you, and be you^2 because that's how you find compatible women. Women who like you for who you are when you are the most you. If it hasn't worked, you haven't found others compatible, it takes time and patience. Not everyone can be with anyone.
Want to fuck girls at a college bar for the rest of your life? Lift weights and develop your inch thick 'strong' frame. Enjoy paying for her shoes the rest of your life.
IIlllIllIIIllIl 6 years ago
Right, but you're missing the context of TRP. There are plenty of blue pill betas out there who are "just being themselves," and they're getting eaten alive left and right by the women they love.
Fundamentally, women love different than men. There is no good/bad judgment in that, it's simply reality. But I needed to be taught how to be a man, in our 21st century feminized society that's not something that comes natural. I'm proud that you popped out like that, but you're overlooking the realistic struggles that cause many men to come here.
IIlllIllIIIllIl 6 years ago
Found this on AskTRP. They made a movie based on exactly what I'm saying.
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
I'm building a red pill media company. That requires that I build an audience. Building an audience requires that I offer value to people. So right now, I do that by writing about my experience with game.
"you either don't have an SO or you have constantly failed at attracting / keeping a valuable mate."
No offense but I think you might be projecting, mate.
thehugejackedman 6 years ago
I'm starting to see reading comprehension suffers on this sub. Like the previous commenter, I have had one successful relationship after another since I was 17 and I am in my most fulfilling one yet.
'Experience with game'. Dude, get over yourself. That is laughably douchey. And if we are to talk about projection... The whole time I was reading this I couldn't help imagine you as the pre-experiment Captain America. But you know what was great about pre-experiment Captain America? He already had a woman who loved him for who he was because he was a kind and funny person. Not because of his 'strong frame'.
L1amas 6 years ago
Do you know what sub you're in? Literally that's the exact opposite of the mantra. Read the sidebar, and quit spewing idiocy. Another suggestion: Search for "Just be yourself" in this sub and see the results, then see yourself out.
no_face 6 years ago
How do you know he's a BETA? Do you know OP in real life?
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no_face 6 years ago
He's creating a following to shill his pickup website
lmaotitle 6 years ago
What red pillers truly reflect about a lot of modern men in reality:
Men are sad that women don't have to stay in unhappy relationships because they are now financially independent.
You twerps have to ask yourselves why this is the only way you think you would get and hang on to a partner. Low self-esteem much?
"Oh, I long for the days when women were chattel.......Guys like me stood a slight chance of getting laid...heavy sigh..."
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angryguy4444 6 years ago
You should go read the sidebar, then, if you are a BP guy.
It wil make you cry lol
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A_yoshi_Egg 6 years ago
You seem jaded as hell, its almost as if you clicked a TRP link with a predisposition in your mind to think that TRP's are losers. So naturally nothing discussed is relevent, you already decided its full of losers who will die alone BEFORE reading. Hilarious! People like you are the fuel to the fire really.
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A_yoshi_Egg 6 years ago
you just confirmed my point "Nope. I know you guys all to well. PUAs, whatever you want to call yourselves." False assumption. Just like i said. TRP is not PUA.
also, your constructive advice isnt constructive at all. its vague and doesnt hold any value.
OP is making a point that you can get what you want if you believe in your self and put in the effort to get it. based on his own life experiences. i don't see how that's bad at all really.
It's just like i described, you had a predisposition that everyone here is losers "PUA" creepers and decided in your mind, before you even clicked the link, that everything is false and TRP is losers.
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[deleted] 6 years ago
well the key word is insecure
stawek 6 years ago
Women decide to fuck men before they see their dicks.
volksssgemeinschaft 6 years ago
Not true. You might get a pity fuck but after that they run away and tell their friends about the swole gym bro with the baby dill for a penis
Imarobot2 6 years ago
Great post but one question. Why persist so much with one woman who puts on such a strong front? Why not just cut your loss (time and opportunity) and find another girl who might be more interested?
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Mister__S 6 years ago
Shit son, I can see your white armor shining from space
rocacu 6 years ago
This right here folks, It's what we call Male Hamstering at it's finest.
Braaaaaapp 6 years ago
I was just about to say the same thing
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[deleted] 6 years ago
Yes I'm clearly threatened by your frame over the internet. Must be the frame of my phone. Rationalize all you want, but you idiots make it harder for us nonrapists to get laid. Luckily at the rate you're going, you'll be the last of your genetics.
kellykebab 6 years ago
This is maybe the most blue pill comment I have read on this sub in months. What's your amazing seduction method, whiner?
Chungpels 6 years ago
Seduction method, lol. Anyone who has a seduction method obviously are not getting laid. People, not just women, can tell an organic personality vs a guy who has obviously researched pick up tricks. This particular article reads as a little rapey with the whole rejection isn't really rejection bullshit.
kellykebab 6 years ago
Social skills can be learned like any other skills. I agree that people will be happier when they develop genuine parts of their own personality to attract others, but that doesn't mean that we can't do that by reading about human behavior and forming responses. It just takes more nuanced responses to be more successful.
This...
...is clearly bullshit though, as people (women included) are successfully lied to all the time. There's this meme that women are superhuman at assessing male character, when really they just get slightly more practice than guys because they get approached. Women fuck up and fall for bullshit all the time. If you can learn how to sell a car, you can learn how to get someone to fuck you.
Chungpels 6 years ago
See, that's just straight up not true. It might look like that to the outside world but the reason shallow guys fuck shallow girls is because they attract each other's demographic, not because they found out the secret cheat code to getting laid. Trust me, I work in a restaurant and am forced to have social interactions with random people every day. There are the socially awkward people, and then there are the people that looked like they worship the movie hitch like the fucking bible and they stick out like a sore thumb, and women find it disgusting. Same people that confuse normal social interactions with sexual advances, like OP does. Women are not a game to beat, women are not robots. They feel and think just like us, give or take a few different hormones. But those hormones do NOT make them a different species. OPs advice is nothing short of toxic and I guaranfuckingtee he is not the person he claims to be.
kellykebab 6 years ago
I have no idea how successful OP is or any RP poster for that matter. I come for the tools and ideas, some of which I use and some of which I ignore. If it's possible to develop better body language when giving a presentation, it's possible to practice good techniques when engaging with someone romantically.
I haven't read this post in a while, but my takeaway was that one should treat "high value" women the way you would any romantic partner and not get intimidated by their status.
I don't buy this idea that it's impossible to improve socially and that being natural is all you need, so that was my main criticism for the commenter above.
Chungpels 6 years ago
Can't lie, it's refreshing to talk with an rational person on this sub. Totally see where you're coming from dude. I dont frequent this sub but I sometimes check it out because TRP culture is can be pretty damn deviant sometimes and I like to see the mindset of some. There are tips throughout this sub that can be useful. I.e. Taking care of yourself, exercising, self confidence etc. There's also a lot of toxic talk about women and I'm just worried too many people take that stuff to heart. I'm not here to shit on people or anything but i am extremely avid against rape culture and any sort of sexual abuse. That's the only reason I would argue with anyone in this sub. Nice to know not all of you think like OP
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asa93 6 years ago
sorry but this is simply not true. It depends on the situation and you cannot affirm such things.
PC_2_weeks_now 6 years ago
My teeth are not straight. God damn
MisterOrigon 6 years ago
I can. I have a friend who is 6'3, has a great face, and is naturally in great shape. Never hit the gym until a month ago, but has always been naturally muscular.
He's almost 19, and since he has no idea how to talk to girls, he hasn't ever kissed one.
EVERY SINGLE ONE of my female friends is infatuated with the guy, but once he starts talking to them...
[deleted] 6 years ago
social awkwardness on a pretty girl can be cute, but on handsome guy its an instant turn off.
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Nattheking1 6 years ago
Lol I'm 6'6 and 19 and am similar to that friend of yours. Only difference is I realized how bad I am with woman and now I'm on my way to fucking them.
MisterOrigon 6 years ago
Get 'em!
That being said, it's amazing how easy it really is. I spent all this year trying to hit the gym harder and get my shit together - I'm getting quite big now, although that's the only thing I've got going for me - I still live at home (18 nbd), no car, crappy retail part time job and I've got more attractive girls than ever because I have so much time to approach and they're my only form of entertainment atm.
Game is EVERYTHING once you have your appearance in order.
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LuvBeer 6 years ago
no offense but sounds like ugly guy with weak frame salt. Good looks gets you a foot in the door but being a man is what attracts them enough to fuck you.
asa93 6 years ago
well it's not offense cause it's wrong. I am average/good looking. Since I started taking care of me I need twice less effort to get the same results.
Of course you have to be a man at some point but there a some guys who definetely can't get laid with their faces. There are some girls that I would never fuck even if I knew that nobody can hear of it. Basically I dont agree with the idea that people don't have standards. They might be lower than what ppl expect but they definetely exists. Evolutionary psychology teach us that woman are looking for other features than just "manliness".
MikeHaines 6 years ago
You're in the jungle. You're a female. You have two choices:
(a) the leader of the tribe, who has authority and power over other men because he has charisma and personal magnetism. This man is "ugly"
(b) a young guy who looks like Justin Bieber but who has no authority, no charisma, and who is therefore low in the dominance hierarchy
Over history, women have chosen (a) more than they've chosen (b). That's why "ugly" men make up the vast majority of the male population, while "beautiful" men are rare.
[deleted] 6 years ago
A severely misguided notion:
The average man today is hotter than the average hunter-gathered from 50000 years ago. We are taller, longer-limbed, more symmetrical. Sexual selection of (among other characteristics) the hottest males from back then produced the average males of today.
WalrusJockeyll 6 years ago
Yeah, but we no longer live in the jungle... girls like hygiene and symmetry
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Read about evolutionary psychology. We're still wired for the ancestral environment.
BreathOfDick 6 years ago
Cmon man that last sentence is completely absurd. I agree with the rest, though.
LethalShade 6 years ago
In what way do you consider it ridiculous? It contradicts the popular narrative but seems pretty self explanatory to me.
BreathOfDick 6 years ago
It's his opinion being stated as though it were fact. What are the criteria for ugly vs beautiful, and what census is there that shows quantity of ugly vs beautiful? There are no data (or logic for that matter) to back his assumption.
LethalShade 6 years ago
I mean fair enough but the general point makes sense. Beauty is not a trait that was necessary for males for survival. It's only now become "important" because of mainstream media. Women have been conditioned to want a sexy man, they aren't genetically predisposed to it.
Duchenne4089 6 years ago
Do women honestly consider Bieber attractive?
Findingthur 6 years ago
Im a man and i consider him attractive
SetConsumes 6 years ago
Same reason why women find Orlando Bloom attractive
[deleted] 6 years ago
He looks pretty average to me. Nothing special as far as looks. Just takes care of himself.
MyFriendKnew 6 years ago
Yea but funnily enough it has to do with him being charismatic and talented
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
He's not charismatic at all. They're attracted to him because 1. He's a famous pop singer. 2. Good looks bad boy image. 3. Has a gazillion dollars.
Take away his fame and talent and he'd have a hard time gettimg laid being skinny and 5'7.
Ed Sheeran is an ugly ginger but women still love him for his talent and fame.
Duchenne4089 6 years ago
Sure, but take his fame away and he is way below average in terms of looks.
MyFriendKnew 6 years ago
Naah he is def not below average. You think way too highly of "average" then. Bieber is neither fat nor too skinny with a pretty face. That already places him above average.
addwater 6 years ago
One of the best posts I've read in a very long time.
Instantly made my mindset do a 180.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Nice one! Thanks for commenting
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Battleaxe19 6 years ago
I think a lot of this is applicable in some situations but not all. The problem with this post and this mindset and this entire subreddit is the idea that there is a way to get any women you want and HERE IT IS GUYS! There is not a cheat sheet to finding a good partner and acting like there is, is dismissing the fact that are are millions of variables that you could never ever account for. Also, despite what some may tell you.. physical attractiveness DOES matter and it plays a pretty large role in human sexuality. The good news regarding that is many people find many different body types, face types, hairstyles, and just overall demeanor to be attractive. But like I said, right time and right place. Cheat sheets are just going to lead to confused and frustrated people who don't get the "9 or 10" they wanted.
ChashuProsciutto 6 years ago
the problem with this thinking is that you scrutinize these "cheat sheets" requiring them to be fail prove, treating each of these advice as needing the 100% accuracy or else worth little value.
These are just building blocks man, aimed to provide a few% to the whole picture with every try.
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ChashuProsciutto 6 years ago
Again, you are being very absolute in your judgement criteria: 0 or 100.
What is social engineering? Is it socially engineering for one to study more books, hitting the gym more and use knowledge to make the best out of a situation? Many would say no because it the criteria of an action is based on the degree. And if you understand this, then your argument is that the said action by OP, constitutes as social engineering and you are against social engineering.
Great, I would be too but only if it involves cheating. And this is not cheating because 1. It's not my fault when others don't want to learn how to push the right buttons; the knowledge is there, publicly; it's free and not private. 2. Girls are human beings, and they have a free will to do whatever they want, walk away from David Beckham if they wanted to.
The education system itself, along with office and work environments are all products of social engineering. Why are the majority of people not against it? Because the benefits provided, the value on greater good level outweighs the negatives. Why is TRP and similar not rightfully adapted nor banned yet? Because society largely is undecided on the issue, and it will remain that way because quite frankly, it's trival on a marco level on the advancement of human race.
Note, I didn't say it is trival, i merely pointed out so because again, the issues and methods are still in fact undecided by the society. There are no formal laws, aside from social laws established and influenced by the media only on a very very micro level.
Essentially, society as a collective left the decision of to mate or not to mate, to each of the individuals of each community. Christians say one thing, judaism says another, americans, English, Spanish and asians etc are all allowed to follow their own paths
Therefore, your argument for against social engineering is just an on the surface term to a larger issue. You don't share the beliefs of this community nor want to belong here. That's fine, it's a free world. But quit demonizing one approach over the other, making the enemy out of somethings else - just because YOU DON'T LIKE IT
It's hard for anyone to respect that.
Arizona_Ron23 6 years ago
Straight Gospel Right Here, Bravo.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Cheers, you're a gentleman and a scholar
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[deleted] 6 years ago
If you want to fuck girls like a "warlord" , the best way to accomplish that is to actually BE a goddamn Warlord.
You can internal dialogue all you want, but at the end of the day, it still matters what you actually ARE. You guys are a bunch of stupid weak bitches for even entertaining for a second otherwise. And this talk of frame?
Who are you fooling exactly? If you know in your heat of hearts, honest with yourself, that you are not the thing pretending you are, somehow you are going to project that outward, just a little, and people will pickup that you're a fraud.
Improve yourself, not your frame. If you actually are awesome, really really, no pretending, no "I'm good enough" internal mantra garbage will be necessary. You won't have to fake confidence, because you'll have it for real. There won't be anymore tricking people into "giving you a chance" anymore.
If I was capable of feeling a useless emotion like sadness, I'd potentially feel that for you weak minded faggots who need this kind of lie. Get to work, and be the man you want to be. Don't buy into this PUA style type lies that are mostly used to take advantage of men who are low SMV and desperate.
RainYupRain 6 years ago
Do you even know what frame actually is? It's not "fake confidence" or "pretending." Frame is control of the self and not letting your emotions cloud your judgement. Being able to take a barrage of insults and not even flinch, that is frame. Being stabbed in the back by people you thought you knew and STILL not "feeling a useless emotion like sadness," that is frame. (How the actual fuck do you not feel sadness. Unless of course, you are a literal fucking psychopath)
Also, I don't think we should be listening to pointers from someone who's name is literally fucking /u/God_Money. But hey, I don't judge, my name is/u/RainYupRain. However, if I were to see that as a username with no context I would believe you were one of the "weak minded faggots" you were referring to. All-in-all I recommend you learn to give some actual criticism rather than petty insults.
[deleted] 6 years ago
I've actually practiced enough NLP to understand that most of these PUA posts are going to be worthless for most young guys. This is not my only post with criticism of this premise, but probably one of my first and not as well constructed.
My main problem with this idea, is that using frame as a magic bullet isn't going to be effective for most guys, because reaching a strong level of genuine confidence is difficult for someone lacking value. Building yourself up should be the priority, and then your confidence will naturally improve and feel much more genuine.
As far as whether or not I'm a literal fucking psychopath. I was joking a little bit, obviously, but the bit of truth in that joke is that I do have a strong ability to disassociate from emotional states if I want to. Imagine a bunch of little speakers, each representing an emotional state. One's for your happiness, one is disgust, one is anger, one for that anxious feeling you get when you're not sure if you left the stove on at home, one for sadness. These little speakers all play music at different volumes, based on how intense your emotional state is. While working past a bit of PTSD I had from some near death experiences, I learned to turn the volume down on a speaker. I can't mute one entirely, I'll know it's still on, but I can pretty effectively disassociate myself from unwanted feelings. If you pickup the right books on self hypnosis and NLP, you can actually learn this sort of thing, but it will take some practice, and you'll need to put in some work.
As far as my name goes, its a Reddit name. I could explain why I picked it, but I don't think you'll find the story of much relevance to this convo.
gjs628 6 years ago
I do think it's important to mention that while the advice is "Every woman wants to fuck your ugly ass, she just doesn't know it yet" is great to psych someone up to trying to pull for the first time, in reality, the truth is that some women just aren't attracted to you. Some really do have boyfriends and won't fuck you because you're nowhere near their boyfriends in SMV. Sometimes it just isn't meant to happen. And that's okay. You wouldn't want to waste your time with a girl who has nothing in common with you and who you will hate by the end of the week. Save your energy for the women you do "connect" with.
Obviously, it can take some time to establish that connection, so don't just assume after she ignores you once that she's Satan, but be on the lookout not for signs that she's not interested in you, but for signs that make you disinterested in her.
Case in point: I was younger, and my girlfriend was "the one". I was alone with a female friend of mine who was a literal 9/10 and for some weird reason was SO into me (it hadn't happened before) but because I was so naive, I kept rejecting her advances... while my girlfriend at the time was off fucking another guy across the road.
Next instance: I was really into a girl who kept playfully rejecting me. She ended up dating some douche at work, BUT, what I saw of their relationship made me realise I was the lucky one and dodged a bullet - she just wasn't the kind of girl I'd have gotten along with after sex.
Point being: sometimes, opportunities slap you in the face and you're too busy ignoring them, and other times something you think is an opportunity turns out to be a bullet with your name on it. Learn to gauge each situation as it developes before assuming it's one or the other.
And yes, I realllllly regret not fucking that 9/10. But that was 10 years ago in my beta teens. I've made up for it since.
thatnorwegiantroll 6 years ago
One of the best posts I've ever read on this site. Clear, concise, and simple explanations for near every situation that I can recount with hot women. Thumbs up!
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Wow thanks man, that means a lot.
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
Haha good point. Long story short I added her on FB a couple months later, we got to talking, I sent her some light flirty banter, asked her to come get a drink with me, she flaked on me, I asked her again and she met me. We hooked up that night and have been together ever since
BreathOfDick 6 years ago
How many times have you had success after a flake? If that's common as well might be worth a post on its own
Mister__S 6 years ago
Reminds me of the Sean Connery family guy skit: "Fifty No's and a Yesh, is still a Yesh"
dapowa 6 years ago
if you dgaf, flakes mean nothing as you've got a line of other women to meet and you can put her last in your 'bitches to get a drink with' list next time
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
I'm average height, around 5' 10" or so. Naturally I'm extremely skinny and putting on muscle is hard but I've been lifting for long enough (half a decade) that I've got a fairly athletic physique. Face-wise I'm probably average, big nose, kinda funny looking, ugly smile, but I clean up well. I look kinda Jewish or Arab (which is weird because I'm Irish) which some girls dislike but others are into.
theOneUpper15 6 years ago
But your 5'10. That already triggers "oh this dood LOOKS masculine" for majority of women. Being shorter than that women will quickly discount you as "less masculine" even if you have a strong frame or tons of bravado.
rigbed 6 years ago
But but you're planning to get married you broke redpill law!!!!!!/s
OptiLaSeR 6 years ago
dafuq ? red pill doesn't say its a law. red pill is only the tool , make your own path with the tool.
Alex2086 6 years ago
Agreed. This is one of the best posts I've read in two years of solid lurking. CTRL+C, pasted into Word and saved for future reference. There is something reminiscent of Scott Adams (Dilbert) about this post.
trp_dude 6 years ago
Yeah, awesome post. Finally something other than teenagers whining about Muslims or posting advice on things they have no experience with.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
I love Scott Adams' writing. That's just about the highest compliment you could give me. Thanks!
king_of_red_alphas 6 years ago
While there is indeed a lot of good advice in this post, it still has the fundamental flaw of all PUA style pick up guides.
It is laced with hamstering / wishful thinking that looks are somewhere low on the list of attraction rather than the top of the list.
It also plays on the fantasy of ugly / fat / short guys that they can game their way into just about any woman's pants.
Please just stop with this shit. Anybody with rudimentary powers of observation and life experience knows for a fact that a genetically gifted guy can get away with just about anything and still get laid.
Does that mean learning game a physically unattractive guy is of no use? No. but this is TRP.
Please don't sell that "If you look like Danny Devito, just hold frame and you'll bang models" horse shit here.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Yep. The multitude of people praising this post shows how hopeless it is for most on this sub.
Luckyluke23 6 years ago
I've been framing this one wrong the whole time. every time she leaves i always thought it was because I missed up. Maybe it's just because my game is TOO good.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Yeah, something that really flipped my perspective a while back was when I heard Alexander (then of RSD) say: "Your good game is your BAD game, and your bad game is actually your GOOD game."
Meaning: if the girl is responding "well" you, it means she's not nervous around you and not trying to make a good impression.
Whereas when the girl is responding "badly", it is often a sign that she's nervous and self-conscious around you, stuck in her head, overthinking things, and trying to seem "cool" -- because she's attracted to you on some level.
For context, think about how you acted to girls you had a crush on back when you were an awkward teenager. You probably tried to act aloof and "cool" around them because you were nervous and wanted to make an impression
Hence, "your bad game is your good game, and your good game is your bad game."
Now, that's not to say you should leave sets with girls who are responding well. Some girls are just super chill and laid back.
But it does mean that in a lot of cases, when a girl is acting rude to you, it can often pay off to be a little bit more patient, go slower, keep joking around with her, and over time she'll become relaxed around you, and eventually, attracted/aroused. That's been my experience anyway.
rocacu 6 years ago
Dude the information in this post can help in so many other ways than with women, it can help in Life in general. I feel that this post is one of the best that I've ever read here. OP I just wanna say Thanks and keep posting things like this please.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks man. Yeah as I was writing it, I realized that you could really argue frame is EVERYTHING -- not just in relation to girls, but to all human relations, social dynamics, politics, etc.
I mean look at Trump. The recent election is the prefect example of a FRAME WAR. The establishment's frame was that Trump was a joke, didn't want to win, couldn't possibly win, etc. Their frame was strong because it was backed up by all the historical evidence -- a candidate like Trump (who was basically an independent running as a Repub) had never won.
But Trump was able to HOLD HIS FRAME consistently enough, and drive it with enough force, that a substantial number of voters ended up "falling into his frame", so to speak. Ultimately Trump's frame won out over the establishment's frame and he became the first private citizen to ever "hack" an election.
Whatever your view of Trump is, it's a powerful lesson in the power of frame, and how frame ultimately creates reality.
pimpdaddy_69 6 years ago
Amazing post but I'll add that for these tips to work without being rich requires you to be at least around average in appearance, plus or minus a few points.
An absolutely repulsive neckbeard with horrific hygiene and conditioning will face True Rejection from high value women.
Women who are 8 and above know they are better than other women so why would they settle for a shit looking guy? Hell, they wouldn't even consider him to be a man to begin with. Having near average looks makes them not immediately run. Being near average has them think of you as a man and then you can go on with the tests.
If you have the minimum appearance needed to be considered a man you can get 9s and 10s. Without meeting that minimum she won't see you as a sexual creature.
Also there needs to be a more clear way of knowing True Rejection so you don't come off as some creep with rape vibes when approaching uninterested women and those in a relationship not looking to cheat.
Besides that this is spot on 10/10.
With the minimum looks Frame is everything.
bsutansalt 6 years ago
For those stuck in the rut of, "I'll start approaching women after I do xyz self-improvement", this one is for you. I'm guilty of it as well.
Go approach today, don't wait. Still keep going to the gym and try to lose that gut or undo being skinny fat, but you absolutely have got to put yourself out there as you are today and take action!
EpicLevelCheater 6 years ago
Heads up, I am pointing the OP for this post.
matrixpush 6 years ago
Repeat that mantra, NLP. lol.
Forcetobereckonedwit 6 years ago
So true. Women are concerned with WHO you are not what you are. Being socially valued out trumps muscles any day. Of course having style, a fit physique, symbols of wealth such as flashy car, watch, etc etc always helps but it's does not win out over "game" and confidence.
KyfhoMyoba 6 years ago
Cold approaching women IS self improvement!!!!!!
QQ_L2P 6 years ago
I just spent 2 years arguing with myself and peeling back all the bullshit in my head and scrubbing it clean before I came to that conclusion. This is why I love this sub. Anyone who comes here now isn't going to have to spend that two years questioning themselves before they find the answer then learn to accept it. They can read it, accept it and move on.
clavabot 6 years ago
I have been making excuses for myself, I need to do xyz to become more confident, more dominant, etc. But every time I see a cute girl I feel like a faggot, and I don't know what do do, I suppose this is because of my virgin status, and that bothers me.
But you either find a way or an excuse and its time that I take action. I'm lucky that as a college freshmen there are so many women here, I will take advantage of my opportunities to better my self.
AttackOnKvothe 6 years ago
Watch on in college, because of all the fake rape claims.
666Evo 6 years ago
Most of us do, mate. Just gotta push through it and eventually the feeling will be far outweighed by, "Nah, I got this."
HoffAmazing 6 years ago
Wow, you're so young. My advice, force yourself to go through the actions this post talks about because it won't matter in the long run. In reality none of it does but you're in college. Once done, you will barely talk to any of them again. (Yes, even through facebook)
Jasperbeardly11 6 years ago
You know it's weird man I don't have an especially high n count but tbh I've consistently gotten off a number of partners and had a handful of trysts.
When I analyze myself not much has changed. I just try to be myself and take what the universe offers that aligns with that. I try to relax and appreciate the little things. Not sweat stupid things. Just appreciate yourself and your experience you get to have in life and respect what you have to offer.
Sexual aspects are easy. You just listen to her and follow what seems to feel good. Just ask also. Start slow. Work towards faster. Maybe don't be afraid to go down. Women are not very relaxed either. She's not above you. Just relax and it'll happen for you. Maybe try sluttier websites like fetlife or tinder or okcupid or pof if you're in a rush to get laid.
TimmySatanicTurner 6 years ago
Ez bruh, bust out your phone show them your lolking profile. Bitches love elo.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Most definitely. The other thing people don't realize is that approaching regularly builds your WILLPOWER up so much that succeeding in other areas of self-improvement becomes practically effortless in comparison.
When you regularly put yourself through the FIRE of approaching a hot girl in a difficult situation, getting off your ass to go to the gym just doesn't seem that intimidating in comparison.
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mooksterr 6 years ago
I'm 19 with braces till August of next year and it has really shot my confidence. I feel like chicks shut me down when they see the braces. In my opinion, its very hard to pull chicks with braces and that I should stay in monk mode till they're off. Am I making excuses or is it a valid reason?
Jasperbeardly11 6 years ago
Some will some won't. Read social cues. It's not a big deal.
bsutansalt 6 years ago
This is exactly the kind of excuse I'm talking about.
failingtheturingtest 6 years ago
Girls will say the exact same thing. how many times have you seen a girl with braces and been turned off simply because she has braces.
Own that shit. Another point in your column for having an obvious shit-test you can smash through.
EuropeanLord 6 years ago
This is social-engineerined towards men who are desperate to find partners and there's a huge chance these guys are:
a) ugly, b) short, c) obese, d) losers, e) willing to pay money if you give them hope.
Been there, done that. And world is actually much, much simpler than you think - there's just only one thing in your life you should do to be really happy - improve yourself. Fucking X chicks a month won't help you with anything and won't make you a better human being in any way and you MOST LIKELY won't feel much happier overall doing that (especially with HPV, which, statistically speaking, you will acquire in a matter of weeks or in the worst case scenario - a month or so).
[deleted] 6 years ago
What is considered short in your country ?
EuropeanLord 6 years ago
I'm Polish, according to Wikipedia average male height here is 178.7 cm (5 ft 10 1⁄2 in) and 165.1 cm (5 ft 5 in) for females.
I'm around 169-170 cm (5 ft 7 in), so about 8-9 cm shorter than average. It wasn't that bad in "my time" but people are getting taller constantly and young girls (like 10 years younger) are very often much taller than me (and even average woman is much taller wearing heels).
Height is fucking important, I've been doing some PUA stuff back in my day, eg. this super popular confidence training that took months of asking girls weird stuff. It was nice, but turned out that even there the difference between short and tall guys was huge, for example my wingman could get anywhere easly while I wasn't even let in to many clubs in my town (and I'm actually much better looking than him).
I stopped caring after I started just living my life, going to the gym, getting very good at a few particular things (both my professional field and sports), now I'm really happy.
Have a good life bro.
(the PUA training wasn't that much of a help actually, I felt amazing during it, but after field work was the same short, chubby pussy as before)
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AttackOnKvothe 6 years ago
height it's actually very important to men.
It's the only thing we can't naturally improve, and one of the biggest things women check.
It's not cool being discriminated by genetics.
EuropeanLord 6 years ago
That's the biggest bullshit of our culture, try calling a chick fat - you will be fucking destroyed and everyone will think you're a fucking dick (even if in 99 of 100 cases it's HER and HER ONLY fault). On the other hand I'm being CONSTANTLY harassed because I'm short. I don't even care anymore, because I found out years ago people who say stuff like that to me have much weaker frame than mine.
Anyway almost nobody is protecting us from this, and often fat chicks giggle at us. Well :)
You either give 0 fucks or slowly decay internally. Luckily I'm in the first group, but it took me a few hard years to get there.
kevin32 6 years ago
Oh my god. Why is this a stickied comment?
Really!?
Confidence has its place, but I don't really see hot women conversating, grinding on, or walking out the club with short, fat, skinny, "ugly" men (or even right-swiping them).
trp_dude 6 years ago
I think he's saying that you don't have to be buff to pull HB8 and HB9. He's not saying being buff doesn't help.
I've seen short and not-so-good looking guys pull women successfully, but their frame was just incredible.
It's like saying you don't have to be tall and good looking to lead men. This is true, but it is easier if you are.
If your frame is strong enough to pull hot women, it will be so good you will be a leader among men.
ReddittFeist 6 years ago
Sigh ... Yet another keyboard jockey gets on here with the same tired old line "It's really just looks"/"PU is bullshit" and yada yada yada.
LOL-I have.
Not your average short, fat, skinny, "ugly" guy who's a typical beta
But fuuukkk ... I've seen some guys who ain't got the looks but have the attitude. And the chicks leave with them.
This "it's all looks" shit is male projection onto women
Looks are what get you attracted to a woman (and for most guys looks are the only thing)
so they can't imagine that women experience attraction, and arousal, based on different things.
kevin32 6 years ago
So when I see things like this, this, this, this, and this, should I conclude it's their great sense of humor?
ReddittFeist 6 years ago
Humor?
Think you Humor What Women Want, is?!
Much to learn have you, my young Padawan.
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bsutansalt 6 years ago
You're missing the forest for the trees. Looks are just one aspect of many things that makes women attracted. Guys tend to get hung up too much on looks because of a kind of confirmation bias due to how overwhelmingly it informs our own attraction to women.
Our focusing on looks thinking women will swoon because of it is a kind of projection. Yes women will sploosh for a guy who looks like a model with abs, but I've seen the same sploosh effect when a guy rolls up in an exotic car or otherwise has sky high status (see also: rock stars & groupies).
If you really think looks are the be all end all, consider the fact Lyle Lovett was railing Julia Roberts in her prime. That guy is one fucked up looking dude. Pics for effect:
http://imgur.com/a/VCMAQ
He was 36 and she was 25 at the time they got married. Does anyone notice the SMV correlation to the age gap? You should.
IDefyAxioms 6 years ago
If Lovett is considered "fuck up looking," then I should probably off myself at this point. Damn.
trp_dude 6 years ago
Yeah, well did you see Paulina and Rick?
http://imgur.com/a/qln8z
http://imgur.com/a/h3VqY
kevin32 6 years ago
Holy fuck. Before clicking I thought "He can't look that bad", but GOD DAMN!
I never said "only looks matter", but to my bias it carries greater weight than confidence when it comes to casual sex, unlike OP who asserts it doesn't matter at all. The only time looks aren't as important to a woman is when she's looking for a beta provider or a status climb.
Anyone who says "looks don't matter" is usually good-looking themselves, and think it's only their confidence that's attractive (or they do know looks matter, but want to dupe unattractive men into buying their PUA products).
Like I said confidence and game has its place. But the OP is blatantly lying to reach less attractive men, in a place called The Red Pill, and the upvotes show they're eating it up.
Jasperbeardly11 6 years ago
I think the argument is moreso that it can be overcome rather than doesn't matter at all.
CoupDeGrace22 6 years ago
I was thinking I'm the only one here who disagrees with that.
That said,this post resonates eerily similar like that admitted troll thread by a tagged member months ago,about penis enlargement which got as many upvotes.
"All you need is frame guys!sure being ripped and having status and yadayada helps,but all you need for attraction is frame!!''every generic ''feel good'' PUA motivational thread.
Really?When did this place that taught guys how to start being responsible and owning their shit in every frontier resort to such childishly simplistic absolutism?I've gotten laid by being an insecure frameless blue pill kid just due to looks and so has half of the male population on earth who have jackshit frame and are much less self assured while occasionally seeking validation.
The entirety of this post can only hold true if you've already got at LEAST SOME if not all your shit in order(looks,personal life,social skills)
On every other context I can only call this bullshit and cringe while the skinny unsavvy newcomers here heed your advice and keep nagging every girl even after she curses them through the seven circles of hell.For fucks sake there are guys on the comments who are asking what a rejection looks like,who likely have minimal experience,and you are telling them they are ''High value men'' just for approaching.Yet once again the tag wins over the content on TRP.Good job mods.
Jasperbeardly11 6 years ago
You're missing the point. Absolutes are true in themselves. But not alwaya.
I know a person who's like 5 8 280 thst consistently dates models. He does well but not incredibly. He's just a chill honest straight forward guy. It can happen if you believe in yourself.
ReddittFeist 6 years ago
@bsutansalt never said that.
He (quite rightly) is encouraging guys to not use improvement of their looks, status, fitness, etc. as an excuse for procrastination in the "woman area" of their life.
Metalgear222 6 years ago
Exactly. What coupdegrace22 is forgetting is that the idea of being better than women just solemnly because we are men, is VITAL in becoming considered attractive by women. these inexperienced newbies will forge their way to hot pussy through failure with OP's approach, because any shortcomings that they have that are self-limiting will disappear. which is ultimately more powerful than looks. confidence gets girls wet, being attractive sparks interest.
ReddittFeist 6 years ago
This sums up one of the most important principals of success with women.
CRAIBaby 6 years ago
Can we get the likes of /u/Rollo-Tomassi /u/GayLubeOil /u/Archwinger and/or /u/IllimitableMan to state their opinions on this post?
I can't put my mind around whether this post states the truth or whether it just represents what most of us, especially newcomers, would like to believe and really just represents an extremely ignorant and overly simplified view on things...
Of course it sounds great and easy to believe that frame is essentially the only thing that matters and every act we considered a rejection previously is now redefined as a shit-test. But really I feel like behaving that way might just make us look like autistic socially inept retards.
SkorchZang 6 years ago
The post states the truth.
Many commenters are unfortunately stuck in their feminine-primary world view, so they're trying to make things easier for women, protect the poor innocent women from awkwards, snarking away with the self-conscious "but isn't that rapey" jokes etc. etc. This is the behaviour of dogs who've been beaten since they were puppies, so now they habitually imagine nasty sticks everywhere coming at them, and whine anxiously amongst themselves.
Why would I make anything easier for a woman? Especially rejecting me. Why would you care what she wants to happen, in the first place? It's the good old blue pill brainwashing, robbing you of your natural masculine qualities, as usual. Think about that for a moment, then you can re-read the brilliant post OP contributed with a clearer head.
Cupid's arrows always strike women's hearts against their will, without asking their permission first. Think of these tactics as positioning yourself so the buttnaked curlyhaired bastard can take better aim, then staying there so he can keep on shooting.
OP was explaining the essence of rock solid masculine frame. That means, a mental frame that is focused on YOU, not on her. Notice how at no point does OP apologize for anything or pepper any "but always make sure she is comfortable, don't be an autistic social retard" disclaimers. That's very telling! It's like you're seeing Neo flex in the Matrix. Of course it makes no fucking sense, how is this even possible.
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BeardThatsFeared 6 years ago
Make-believe stuff, I stopped reading less than halfway. A 9 has no reason to go for a 4-5 guy when she could have an 8-9 guy. I'm actually worried about OP getting his arse kicked :D
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tiptopalphagod 6 years ago
You're a noob or beta. Not everyone is ALWAYS in the mood to be hit on or approached. Life isn't some Disney movie where you're the prince and she's the princess you fucking moron. Nobody expects someone named 'upboats' to have ANY game at all though. Beta4life.
NiteCyper 6 years ago
Uh, I see a lot of ad hominem but not much substance. I'll summarize the meat.
I'm making some strong points. I seek counterpoints.
balalasaurus 6 years ago
It does.
But what's wrong with that?
Never underestimate what can be brought about by a change of perspective. In fact that's exactly what TRP is about.
To use the Matrix analogy, Neo becomes able to stop bullets simply because he believes he can.
Rhythmic 6 years ago
This is how you become attractive - for real.
Here's the technicality of how this works:
When faced with the appearance of a 'rejection,' you either 'know for sure' that you're being 'rejected,' or 'know for sure' ... whatever your belief is. Depending on what you believe (AKA 'know for sure'), you'll respond in a certain way. We're talking about subtle shifts in you body language, vocal tone, facial microexpressions and the like. For the most part, the woman isn't consciously aware of these subtleties, but she does get a powerful gut-level reaction from them.
You don't even have to approach for this mechanism to kick in. The moment you sense a woman in your vicinity, based on your beliefs, you either reject yourself or feel awesome. You body responds accordingly. The woman responds to your body's response.
Don't confuse 'simple' with 'easy.' Turning you body's response around takes work.
To make an analogy, if you play an instrument, you don't practice your scales in front of a huge crowd. Instead, you practice scales in the privacy of your dojo. That's what monk mode is about. Then you go out and practice not giving a fuck about screwing up in front of the crowd. These are two very different kinds of practice, and both are important.
To complicate things, people (including women) are horrified at the prospect of 'being fooled by a fake.' That's why you'll be getting the harshest tests while working at turning yourself around. There's an uncanny abyss you'll have to cross.
Use tests to practice regaining your balance. Each time a woman gives you the appearance of a 'rejection,' this is a weight for you to lift, strengthening your frame in the process. Each time you lose your frame is an opportunity to re-gain it. Each time you fall is an opportunity to practice getting back up.
Staying rock-solid in the face of challenge makes you attractive.
Caveat: Just like men, women are humans, and all humans have some (limited) capacity for self-control. There are women in committed relationships who do want to stay loyal to their partners. This conscious choice does not turn off biology - just like men in committed relationships are still attracted to boobs. Expecting this to be otherwise is a reality disconnect.
AWALT = biology. AMALT = biology too.
That's why as you get more attractive, you can expect loyal women to start avoiding you: because they are actively resisting the temptation you've become. This is something I'm dealing with right now. It's a bit of a bummer.
As you gain security about you own attractiveness, you realize how much power you have to screw up the lives of the people around you, while at the same time you lose the need for 'proof' that you are attractive. Respecting other people's arrangements becomes the self-evident way to go.
When you really get this, it will become clear to you that you can't ever 'fake' anything. It's all about becoming attractive - for real.
Edit: Caveat 2: This should be self-evident, but if you are reeking of insecurity, this will turn women off. If you keep pushing you can get yourself into trouble. There may be some serious stuff you need to clear up before going full out. Monk mode.
Edit 2: uncanny
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CRAIBaby 6 years ago
Cheers for the response. I do agree with it in essence and I will be paying attention to these aspects in the next couple of days to raise my awareness.
One thing I'm a bit confused about though: what about really good-looking guys? If shit-testing to the extent that OP mentioned was the standard to sense a partners viability for women, then why are those not getting the same amount of shit as worse looking guys? How does the above relate to them?
If I understand correctly: when women give you shit upon approaching, it still is an indicator of disinterest (which is why extremely good looking blokes don't have this as much), but overcoming these hurdles makes you more attractive?
[deleted] 6 years ago
Good looking guys don't receive as much shit, because the average girl expects them to hold themselves in higher regard and therefore have frame which represents that higher regard. Generally, if a guy grew up always being good looking, he'll never have a need for this subreddit. If his looks came later in life, his frame has to catch up to the way people treat him.
Aaronindhouse 6 years ago
Our sexual instinct, to pursue and take, can be shaken or falter when we encounter women of a certain level of attraction. I think this is equally true for women. Their default sexual instinct is to sift and sort so as to properly choose the right sexual partner. When encountering a man of a certain level of attractiveness, this sexual instinct falters in them too.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Good looking guys dont get as much shit tests because they were already attracted to them at the start. Not much need to build it up. Ugly or even more normal looking guys do get tested more because the attraction level has a lot of room to increase.
Rhythmic 6 years ago
I'd rather stay away from over-analizing^* this. For the most part, people are acting on auto-pilot.
Just train your autopilot to feel good about yourself and not depend on external validation.
poolords 6 years ago
This is post is pissing off a bunch of angry betas at the blue pill as well as a few dudes in the anger phase here, which must mean it's a good post. The greatest truth always hurts, so of course you've got a bunch of faggots who don't want to accept it. Keep doing what you're doing man.
slay_it_forward 6 years ago
No it's epic hamstering. Frame matters, but so does your looks, your voice, your charisma, whether she had that deep instinctual feeling your dna matches well with her. It all matters and makes up the overall package.
I think Sluthate LMS omegas are idiots but looks matter and does your status. Ask Beiber how many shit tests he gets. None. He shit tests them.
mustoccoli1 6 years ago
He made it clear that having good looks charisma etc. will make everything a lot easier. The more attractive you are (as far as the standards to society go) the less shit testing you will get.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
I welcome all debate!
liberated_prisoner 6 years ago
Pure gold. Makes a lot of other PUA material redundant. This is the bottom line.
LukeRhinehart34 6 years ago
hahahaaa, this is literally applied chaos magick. god, this is amazing
Akela_hk 6 years ago
Magnificent. Could not have said it better myself. I am applauding in between typing words.
NeoreactionSafe 6 years ago
"Bitch Face" came on the scene in the late 1990's.
Women trained in the arts of being feminine (old school) would smile.
I'm 55 years old and actually lived through it so I'm not accepting the "bitch face is normal" concept.
However... there were always tests but normally a woman waited until she got her "hooks" into you first.
Typically the first "test" happened a few months into dating.
(it was called your "first fight")
RPSigmaStigma 6 years ago
Great post. It's been nice seeing these kinds of posts recently. It's like TRP circa fall of 2014 again.
Just curious, why the left eye?
kankouillotte 6 years ago
I can personally attest to point 5. of the TLDR, I have verified time and time again that the hottest girl will just give you shit ONCE, and when you ignore it, intentionally or not (one, such as myself, can be so socially blind that you don't even notice anything is happening), then they're after you like you're a diamond in the rough.
Although, if you passed the test because you are socially blind, you will also NOT notice she's trying to set you up for a kiss, or inviting you to her place under false pretenses. This leads to drama, because hot girls don't take kindly to being rejected, even if by mistake.
FrameWalker 6 years ago
Bingo! I'd like to add some key points based on reading and experience 9s. You covered most of the points quite well.
A) While in public and at bars direct and forward is a major demonstration of value, at small parties I've always done well playing coy. I focus on the high status males (because they're great company) Sooner or later the HB8s and HB9s will begin compliance testing "hey get me a drink", "tell me your name", "how do you know John and Cindy?" Either ignore their questions/commands or joke around and never give a straight answer. At some point they'll be very curious and there'll be a 5-15 minute period where you get peppered with shit tests. If you make it through, soon the girls pretty much start grabbing you and you pick one. However if you're smart you'll know that HB8s and HB9s are highly fueled by preselection.
B) Which brings me to point 2: If you're interacting with HB8s and HB9s you would do well to play off 2-3 girls against each other. I've even had gay guys flirt with me at the bar while I'm picking up a girl. The girl will usually respond by rubbing my crotch or similar. For most of the hottest girls I've been with, there have been 2 or 3 in the running on that same night. Also when your out with HB8s and HB9s if another one crosses your path, flirt, sneak in a kiss and grab a number. Girls love "poaching."
C) What is the essence of an HB8/HB9? Extreme femininity. Expect Hb8s and HB9s to be emotional rollercoasters - it's the estrogen. Be a rock. From day 1 to the end. These women can seem crazy! Be ready. You absolutely must be masculine back or they will misbehave. Put them in their place, be firm.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Solid post. I agree with everything you've just said.
Especially:
B) Preselection is god. I remember this one time I was in the zone at a club. Was making out with a random chick (maybe a 7), took her by the hand and then walked up to a 9, and made out with her instantly while still holding the other girl's hand. The 9 in question was about an inch taller than me -- the type of girl who would have blown me out straightaway normally, yet now there was instant compliance, instant making out without even saying a word. Why? Just because I was still holding the hand of this other vaguely cute chick. Needless to say, I've tried to replicate this but it's hard to pull off! You've really gotta be in the zone to do it.
C) HB8/9/10 = extreme femininity. I think that's a really good way to look at it. It's not necessarily that these girls are more "selective" so much as due to being highly feminine and erratic, they require you to be extremely masculine, and anything that falls short of that will get destroyed.
Neo_Natal 6 years ago
Mods need to point you for this one. You get a saved post from me.
PenisPeddler 6 years ago
Lol this sub is a fucking trip.
angryguy4444 6 years ago
It's sexuel tension if she holds your stare.
If you want an even more effective technique do this : talk, and then start talking more slowly, in a deeper voice, very gradually, until you make pauses between words. And look in her eyes when you do so. THIS creates sexual tension
[deleted] 6 years ago
Try focusing in one pupil while chatting to a girl. Thank me later.
stawek 6 years ago
Nah, it's just eye contact. Looking into one eye just makes it more intense.
Luckyluke23 6 years ago
i get the " i have a bf" one a lot. i JUST realized that it's because my game might actually be good and NOT the fact she actually might have a boyfriend.
(note: if she tells me straight away she has a bf I'm more inclined to belive her, but if she tell me 15 mins into a convo I'm not)
Katavasis 6 years ago
I was gonna write that this post is mental masturbation and that ignores the DTF or NOT and focus TOO much on stuff that don't really matter.Which all are true.
BUT, this post also includes valuable lessons,gold nuggets,that are important to strengthen your frame.It contains social observations,very useful to the newcomers.
Just keep in mind that you have to be above average looking and somewhat socially aware. If you are a hobo creep,you can maintain as much frame as you want,but you won't fuck her.
ivan3 6 years ago
Can you post a pic of yourself?
angryguy4444 6 years ago
I remember a few years ago, I was seeing this girl 2 times a week at my kung-fu school and we would flirt big time.
After two weeks of flirting, I was at home when I did the mistake that would make it impossible for me to have sex with her :
I let that fucking feeling of joy and inner peace flow through me. I opened myself to day dreaming about being with her. It felt so good. And it costed me the girl.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Look good (lift, dress nice) + talk to girls (basic social skills) + basic rp knowledge = get laid. Increase capabilities at the first two things = better lays
[deleted] 6 years ago
great post. i've noticed the tests will get more intense after a while if you dont escalate, then they'll eventually stop as she loses interest. i've learned that if i don't escalate before she increases the level of her tests, i've lost and need to strike quicker. it happens pretty quickly, so you really have to just keep at it like you say
[deleted] 6 years ago
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RedPillFusion 6 years ago
If shaming tactics are the only mechanism by which to attack the OP, get that shit out of here man.
Definitely disagree if you do, but you've offered no thoughtful contradiction to support "getting girls isn't that complicated".
Apart from that, keep in mind that complicated is a relative term. What's simple to you is complicated to the next guy. A lot of this stuff comes natural to some men, but reverse engineering the anatomy of an approach to close success can be incredibly useful to those less naturally inclined.
[deleted] 6 years ago
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RedPillFusion 6 years ago
Do you consider this reasonable behavior?
MikeHaines 6 years ago
I'm sorry it didn't resonate with you.
[deleted] 6 years ago
It's total bullshit. If a strong frame is all it takes you can quit the gym, quit your job and live in a tent in the woods. As long as you have a "strong frame" when you periodically wander into town to pickup women. Laughable.
[deleted] 6 years ago
Not so, remember the story about the homeless guy who was sleeping with 7s & 8s? Strong frame can help you make the best of any situation. It shows you have the strength and mental fortitude to take on the world, regardless of your personal circumstances.
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[deleted] 6 years ago
You're just going to be more bitter and depressed when his "grow your dick" pills don't work. You didn't learn anything, he's just writing fantasies for bitter virgin boys. If you think that not knowing this is what is keeping you from getting laid, it's not. Maybe it's the fact that you think of women as a commodity and that sex is a reward for being nice (which is retarded because to be nice means that you don't expect anything from it). This dude is a snake oil salesman who is selling you promises that no one can deliver upon.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks! The repetition is deliberate by the way, it's a form of hypnosis ;-)
Smile or not: I tend to go in either already laughing/smirking like a bastard (from joking with my friends from before or whatever), or if it's daygame I'll approach with kind of a half-smile.
I think all these things are pretty subjective to the person, however, and the demands of the situation. I tend to come across as overly aloof and uncaring in my default mode, so I smile and act "friendly" to correct for that. But for another guy -- who's problem is that he's TOO talkative, TOO friendly -- it might be better to do the exact opposite and actually ramp up the dickhead vibe.
So I guess what I'm saying is experiment. You'll find what works for you if you A/B test it.
Kite_Blight 6 years ago
You're pretty good at this.
Each paragraph flows into the next.
You repeat concepts with a kind of beautiful consistency that few people can rival.
The fact that your post got so many upvotes is a testament to that. I haven't seen anyone do that in a while.
You're well-versed in knowledge from many different domains.
And I've gone through your posts.
Your skill stack is incredible.
You seem like the kind of person who is eager to understand the way humans function--their irrationality, their behavior...what makes them tick.
I see all the makings of a Master Persuader.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words!
Master Persuader Hypothesis is pretty much my BIBLE for understanding the world currently.
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SovereignSoul76 6 years ago
Wow, this was actually very helpful. Interesting insight/well put regarding the "Women value you because you have a STRONGER FRAME than them. That's all." bit.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Thanks for reading. Yeah, that was personally the big insight for me that took me years of approaching to finally get. Glad you got the main message I was trying to drive.
Yepbro 6 years ago
I've been wanting someone to write something like this for months. Probably the best post on the importance of frame and passing shit tests I've encountered. You have a great, easy to follow writing style and your lessons are easily applicable. Props.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Nice one mate, I appreciate it
BestSC86 6 years ago
Only addendum, I would add is that:
One man's 10 is another man's 6....I would add the frame that girls are girls irregardless of their being blessed by physical attractiveness.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Yeah for sure. Other thing I realized after being with a few "9s and 10s" is that EVER GIRL IS A 7 when she's in her natural state (no makeup, sweat pants, greasy hair, acne, glasses, etc). This applies even to the hottest of the hot.
fromdario 6 years ago
Ehh, you are overlooking a banging body, which is always banging if she keeps in shape, which most 9/10s do.
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BestSC86 6 years ago
I agree but in general I was talking about about the 5-10 range of girls which 95% of guys are interested in gaming.
I know that often, I see on this forum and other PUA sites guys talking about their 9\10s where they post a picture and it is one of the club going makeup dossed girls......which honestly to me is more along a 5 or 6 than a 10.....my preferences are different, not better, just different.
I would consider an obese chick as a 2 or 3....
beachbbqlover 6 years ago
Seconded. But there are trends that aren't predicted by older literature; like a chick being edgy gives her points over being 'plain' and pretty on virtually everyone's rankings, and counter to opinion - progesterone/testosterone in women is higher sought by higher status men, while estrogen is more sought in lower status men.
adriantada 6 years ago
can someone enlighten me what is a PUA site?
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
Yeah I 100% agree with this. It's funny, cos I used to think all men pretty much had the same preferences I do. But after hanging out in the PUA community for a while and seeing the kinds of girls guys HONESTLY view as "perfect 10s" I seriously think there's a much bigger discrepancy even among male preferences than people generally think. (And women's preferences vary even more radically in my experience)
Smajon 6 years ago
See, I think Ashley Graham is the most gorgeous thing ive ever laid eyes on, and a buddy of mine calls her a nasty fat pig. Hes only attracted to skinny anorexic looking blondes. Needless to say, when we go out, we never step on each others toes.
watts996 6 years ago
Smajon, everybody has their own preference. If you see her as a 10, then she's a ten. I wouldn't argue with your claim neither. She's fine as hell.
SetConsumes 6 years ago
She's too thick to be a 10
BENDERisGRREAT 6 years ago
shes a 7 or an 8.. granted thats with photoshoot makeup on (her face really carries her on google images)
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MikeHaines 6 years ago
Act as if she's being friendly and normal to you, in spite of the actual reality, and very often she'll fall into your frame and start acting friendly and normal.
It's kind of trippy. This is related to the concept of reflexivity in social psychology. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexivity_(social_theory)
We largely act the way we believe others expect us to act.
40_SixandTwo 6 years ago
Thanks for this post. Its going to help me out tomorrow. I'm starting to put myself out there more and I want to start approaching.
MikeHaines 6 years ago
Good to hear it man. Those first few approaches are scary but I can honestly tell you that the year or two in which I learned game and started doing cold approach regularly was the best time of my life.