On a conservative subreddit where I'm one of the mods, a lot of objections pop up about male trannies in women-only spaces. A Christian college is fighting this in court because the Biden Administration is insisting that people be allowed to pick their "gender," and women will have to share spaces with men. I suppose I could have said, "Render unto Ceasar..." if they want to accept tax dollars, but I said this instead:
No wonder the court struck it down... they seem to have no objection to men being required to accept women into their dorm rooms and showers. (See edit: the college's only objection is that it offends the modesty of women, although the rule applies equally to men.)
Story time: as the military acceded to women's demands to open up formerly all-male billets, we were told to share intimate spaces with women. When anyone objected (including the wives), we were told to shut up and deal with it. I was in an all-male field when it was opened up to women, and I never signed up to share sleeping / changing space with women who insisted on being there, but I wasn't given a choice.
By supporting feminism, the right freely gave away the high ground on this issue. The time to make a stand was decades ago when men were being forced to deal with this. The idea that something is only objectionable when it applies to women rings hollow at this point.
Here's a radical solution: get both men AND women out of each other's spaces.
Edit: From the article. (Emphasis added.)
At stake is the school’s ability — any school’s ability — to restrict spaces such as dormitories and showers to only women.
Biden’s Department of Housing and Urban Development issued new rules requiring schools to open their women’s dormitories — showers and all — to men who “identify” as women.
“Young women shouldn’t be forced to have to change or undress in the presence of men,” ADF senior counsel Julie Marie Blake told The Western Journal on Friday in an online interview. “Young women should not be forced to have men as roommates.”
Esther Rea, a senior at the college majoring in public relations, said she finds the prospect of having to share dorm facilities with males “extremely scary.”
“Where I live now … I know it’s safe,” Rea said. “I have a lot of comfort in knowing where I live right now, I don’t have to share that space with men.”
The bottom line is, the government does not belong in girls’ dorms.”
If they object to subjecting their male students to being forced into the same situation with F2M students, they certainly didn't say so. In fact, it seems that it never occurred to them that young Christian men might not want female roommates.
Edit 2: FWIW, I'm not defending Biden's idiotic stance on this. The problem is that by framing this as an issue that is only problematic because it affects women, they show that they don't object to forcing people to share dorms and showers with members of the opposite sex on principle... they only object that women are included. (In fact, there are far more F2M "transitioners" than M2F ones. This ruling actually impacts men more than it impacts women.)
Conservatives really need to stop doing RadFems' dirty work for them. It's not enough to stop this nonsense: it needs to be rolled back. Remember: they asked for this: let's stop trying to shield them from the bad consequences. That's the only way they'll lose support.
Oddest-One-Here 7mo ago
This is because of social justice pushing their version of what it means to be trans and making it mainstream, before the 2010s, trans-people were a small number of gender dysphoric individuals who wish they were born as the opposite gender, they didn't want to identify as "trans" and wear it as a badge, and back then there were way more M2F trans than F2M trans, having the social justice crowd ruins every subculture they manage to get their teeth into.
Oddest-One-Here 11mo ago
The best way to deal with F2M Trans is to treat them like you would any other man, make sure they know that they have lost their female privilege, the genuine F2M will realise just how tough it is to be a man compared to living as a woman and the fake F2M who only "transitioned" to get access to male spaces will reee from the lack of female privilege they still expect to enjoy.
Problematic_Browser 11mo ago
Let clown world burn.
It works out for men like me, men who embrace masculinity and the responsibilities and perks that come with it.
If these people really want to embrace this insanity, fine. I'll sip my scotch while watching it all burn down and playing with the women who aren't fighting their biological hard wiring.
I can't fight this hurricane by blowing into it, so I'm just going to enjoy watching it obliterate the systems put in place to protect the very group who benefit from those systems.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
I keep telling my fellow TradCons (the blue-pilled ones), that they're taking exactly the wrong lessons from this whole tranny thing.
If Leah-what's-his-face smashes a few NCAA records and a few guys get athletic scholarships... that's fine. Nobody gave a crap that I wasn't going to get an athletic scholarship because of genetic realities that no amount of training could overcome.
Trannies versus TERFS? Both sides hate us, so the only winning move is not to play. Two things stop the onslaught of gynocentrism. The first is hard times that force women to realize how much of their "strength" and "independence" is based on men creating first-world conditions for them. The second is giving them the equality they keep saying they want... all of it - not just the good stuff.
Personally I think the Republicans are missing a golden opportunity to "win" this debate. When the Senate Democrats tried to push that ridiculous parliamentary bluff to put the Equal Rights Amendment up for a vote, the Republicans did what they always do: folded even though they had a winning hand.
The Democrats knew the measure wouldn't pass - they don't want it to pass: they want it to use as a club to paint Republicans as misogynist - and the Republicans dutifully gave them their sound bite.
What they should have done is to offer an "Equal Rights and Responsibilities Amendment" that creates true equality, and watched the left tear itself apart.
Lone_Ranger 7mo ago
It is fun to watch the feminists and trannies slug it out. The feminists (I call the crypto feminists, because modern feminists are not looking for equality) got all bent out of shape the moment that society gave the green light for men to be women simply because they say they are.
The crypto feminists wail loudly about 'women spaces' (like changing rooms) but that is just a ruse. What they really are trying to defend is female priviledge. Can everyone not see this?? The feminists got equality decades ago. They got the right to vote, to equal pay etc more than 40 years ago. The crypto feminists are nothing to do with equality - they are all about protecting female priviledge.
Now that is what makes the M2F trans so entertaining - they are chipping away at female priveledge.
And as a man, I fully support the M2F trans rights!! Go team M2F!
Because it brings up some really important questions. The crypto feminists are loudly wailing about protecting female pro sports . The argument is that if men are allowed to identify as women just by identity alone, then soon there will be no professional womens sports.
To this I say - "Great". If you want to
lurkerhasarisen Mod 7mo ago
I appreciate the sentiment, but feminism has never been about equality. Female privilege has been there since the very beginning.
The right of the common people to vote has been a millenia-long process that was only resolved by recognizing that the people who bleed for the system deserve a say in the system. Who bleeds for the system? Who is subject to conscription?
Men. That's it. That's why men got the right to vote and women and children did not.
The so-called "good" feminism... the so-called "real" feminism... the so-called "equality" feminism was never about women having equality when it came to sacrifice and responsibility. Women get to direct the courses of nations although they bear none of the burden of supporting and defending them.
People seem to have forgotten that the reason the ERA didn't pass in the US when it was first proposed was that men were being drafted to fight in Vietnam, and the ERA would have extended that obligation to women. They already had equal voting rights and equal pay... the ERA would have given them the parts of equality they didn't want, so women opposed it to preserve their privilege.
What you describe as "crypto-feminism" is just feminism following its own internal logic: rights without responsibilities. Feminism looks at both the old system wherein both sexes had privileges and duties, and the new system where everyone is supposed to be equal, and it treats both systems like a smorgasbord wherein women get equality when it suits them, and retain privileges when it suits them, without the downsides of either.
If you want to differentiate between the "waves" of feminism, just call the current version mature feminism.
Overkill_Engine Endorsed 11mo ago
That's their job in the modern political kayfabe where people are tricked into believing there are two teams named DNC and GOP, when it's more like there are two teams: the actors and the audience.
moorekom Mod 11mo ago
Exactly. Controlled opposition. They take their nicks on both sides, but they are far more aligned than not.
Diabs 11mo ago
Well said. we are already seeing traditional feminists vs tranny freaks at protests lol let the left eat itself.
Problematic_Browser 11mo ago
It's amazing how women cheer for things that destroy them.
I got into a debate about whether or not trans-women are women (and oddly, it's never about trans men, because women DO NOT WANT THAT BURDEN), and it was funny as fuck for me because I'm not invested in the outcome. It does not affect me.
They are choosing to compete with women. That helps me.
At the end of it, I had to remind her that just the other week she was griping about how said trans woman was getting more dick than she was.
Hell, I got into one about how onlyfans is terrible for men and a pack of them descended on me and called me a mYsOgYNiST. I just had to laugh. I told them that they are literally defending their right to be pimped because I made a comment critiquing men for encouraging it.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
F2M trannies vastly outnumber M2F trannies, and it's 100% the result of social contagion.
Remember that privilege hides itself from those who possess it, and very few women (and even fewer adolescent girls) understand that men even have burdens that they don't have. All they see is "male privilege" without male responsibility... until they "transition" and suddenly realize that nobody cares whether they live or die, and that they are only judged on what value they bring to others.
When they discover how little "privilege" and how much crap comes with being a small, short, effeminate "man" they tend to deeply regret giving up all that female privilege they were told didn't exist.
Oddest-One-Here 11mo ago
They do not understand that 99% of all male privilege is biology, until technology advances enough to transform a female body into a male one or vice versa, F2M Trans will not gain any significant benefits by transitioning.
Problematic_Browser 11mo ago
"Men have it so easy!"
/Spends a year as a man
Norah Vincent has left the game.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 10mo ago
Shameless plug:
RIP Norah Vincent: a requiem for who is likely the only genuine female ally men ever had
Problematic_Browser 11mo ago
As an aside, I think you meant to say that FtM is outnumbered my MtF
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7906237/#:~:text=Studies%20have%20consistently%20reported%20a%20greater%20prevalence%20of%20MTF%20than%20FTM.&text=A%20recent%20meta%2Dreview%20found,ratio%20of%20%E2%88%BC2%3A1.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
That article is three years old.
Prior to recent social changes that make weird sexualities "cool," the vast majority of people with gender disphoria were pre-pubescent boys. That baseline goes back a century. Most of them snapped out of it at puberty, while a disproportionate percentage became gay as adults. Until very recently it was almost unknown among adolescent girls.
Since then there's been a massive increase in adolescent girls claiming to be transgender that is many times greater than the "baseline" from before 2020. The sudden spike is generally attributed to teenaged girls succumbing to social contagion.
That makes the article about the college even more suspect. Trannies have traditionally been a tiny fraction of the population, and almost none of them were young women. The boys who didn't grow out of the phase didn't think they were women... they went gay. The sudden increase only happened in the last couple of years, and it's overwhelmingly girls who are easily influenced by social media. That means that the people most likely to be college age in 2023 and declare themselves to be the opposite sex are young women... not young men.
If the college is worried about people insisting on being treated like the opposite sex, their focus should be on women invading the men's spaces... not the other way around.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 10mo ago
I'd been wondering about what had seemed to be a sudden increase in FTM freaks.
Check this example out: https://www.trp.red/feed/status/126532
Seagram7 11mo ago
https://patriots.win/p/16b6N5JkAr/aww-what-happened-ladies-do-you-/c/
The link is from a reeedit! post on how a girl in a gym locker room fully nude turned around and there was fully bearded man standing there. Congratulations ladies: Welcome to the world you created. Women really thought of themselves as an oppressed group. Since gays and trannies are also being oppressed, then we should all be allies against men and the establishment they created...right? Now women are starting to realize this was actually a bad idea but the train has left the station on pulling this idea back. I'm now seeing (like the comments in the link) women saying that "I was never a part of THAT! Don't lump me in with those crazy feminist, I'm DIFFERENT!"
Now he can be in the shower making direct eye contact with you and washing his lady penis, very fast.
Boar_excrement 11mo ago
I love the smell of schadenfreude in the morning....
Boar_excrement 11mo ago
Well, if gender is just a construct, then there went all the female privileges out the window.
Equality = Consequences.
Be careful of what you ask for, laydeez.
mattyanon 11mo ago
The thing that fucks people's heads is the latest marxist/feminist shit which is "gender is not biological". If men say they are women you are a bigot if you disagree.
The world needs to stand up to that shit and draw a line. It's really simple: two X's and you're female, one X and you're male, if you don't like it then feel free to change anything you like about yourself, but you're still not allowed to go into women's changing rooms.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
No that's not correct. There are XY women, XXY women, etc. Check out Swyer's syndrome and Klinefelter's syndrome along with a hundred other intersex conditions.
mattyanon 11mo ago
Intersex is rare...... much rarer than all this "you can be whatever you delude yourself into thinking you are" shit we're getting now.
So ok sure...... diagnosed medical condition, assign gender on a reasonable basis based on physical attributes.
But this "you can be whatever you think you are" shit needs to stop.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
There was one study that showed most trans people have a brain that resembles the sex they identify with more than the sex they were born as. It's a step in the right direction toward identifying trans people and recognizing it as an intersex condition, while at the same time dispelling the notion that one can choose whether to be trans or not. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8955456/
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
I notice that - like the college and the RadFems - you only object to men being in women's spaces but seem fine with women being in men's spaces. Two questions:
1) Women demanded - and have received - access to every space that used to be considered "male" in the name of equality (including locker rooms). If we are equal, then there is no rationale for not allowing men into all "female" spaces. So... are we equal or are we not?
2) If we are not equal, and since women are currently allowed to go everywhere and do anything, which "male" rights should women lose, which "female" duties should women be forced to perform, and which formerly "male" spaces that women currently occupy should women be expelled from? (Be specific.)
mattyanon 11mo ago
equal is not "same"
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
So despite the fact that women can go anywhere men can go and do anything men can do, you cannot come up with even one specific place, privilege, or duty that benefits women that should be changed to better achieve equal opportunities.
Not. Even. One.
On the other hand: in the US, men (and only men) have a legal obligation to register for the draft and go to war if we're called. Meanwhile, women get to vote for the politicians who declare those wars at no risk to themselves. How do you not see the problem with that arrangement? You can't mix "different" with "equal" without screwing somebody over... and for some reason libtards, blue-pillled TradCons, and feminists always throw men under the bus. Why are you siding with them?
Giving women all the benefits of equality without any of the burdens or restrictions - while denying that to men - makes you a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist).
Don't be a TERF.
mattyanon 11mo ago
This is not the point I was addressing, so you are taking what I said out of context.
Right, and this is a different point to what you asked originally.
I DO see a problem with this arrangement.
Dude.
Seriously.
You are attacking the wrong person.
You asked a question which I answered albeit without doing all your homework for you, and you now claim that I oppose you because of factors that you didn't even mention to start with.
I mostly agree with your point. Go fight the enemy, don't pick a fight with the ops.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
I asked you for a specific list of what should change, and you didn't list anything. There was no other context.
I'll ask again.
If we are not equal, and since women are currently allowed to go everywhere and do anything, which "male" rights should women lose, which "female" duties should women be forced to perform, and which formerly "male" spaces that women currently occupy should women be expelled from? (Be specific.)
Spare me the "context" and just answer the question. Nobody is asking you do any homework. All I want is your list.
Those other things you object to were me trying to get you to understand that women have privileges that men don't have while men have responsibilities that women don't have, because you didn't seem to grasp that "Equal opportunities" cannot exist in conjunction with, "not the same."
The reason I criticized what you wrote is that you're making the same mistake as the college and the TERFs: when equality benefits women it's good, and when equality doesn't benefit women then suddenly we have to talk about how women should get special considerations. When something harms both sexes, all they - and you - mentioned is that it harms women.
But since you agree that letting women vote to send men to war is a problem. What's your solution?
Either we have to get rid of registration for everyone and hope it doesn't bite us in the ass, or force women to register just like men do, or require women to take on some obligation that is comparable to being sent to war, or just not let women vote in elections where the winners get to start wars (members of congress and the president).
Edit: there is another way. We could make registration for the draft voluntary and only allow the volunteers to vote.
mattyanon 11mo ago
Nah..... I'm not engaging, you've blown it
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
I don't blame you for backing away. I have that effect on people with weak arguments.
We agree that the tranny stuff is stupid. The college in the article is correct... guys shouldn't be in women's dorms. WE ALL AGREE ON THAT. My problem is that they... and bloopie TradCons... and Redical Feminists... and you... focus 100% of your concern on how this affects women and don't seem to care that men have been putting up with this for decades.
If men and women are different (and we agree that they are), the way they're treated by society can't be just, "Give women all the advantages of equality... plus special treatment when they can't keep up... and make men retain their old responsibilities while exempting women from taking them on."
I'm tired of the above-listed people demanding equality and then treating it like a smorgasbord. If I can be forced to share sleeping quarters with women because they demanded access to what used to be an all-male space, so be it: but women don't get to complain when it works the other way. And I don't care to hear the complaints of those who suddenly decided that it's not fair (but still only in one direction).
If men shouldn't be allowed to "declare" their way into women's dorms, then women need to GTFO of a whole lot of spaces and situations before I'm going to care.
mattyanon 11mo ago
Weak is misrepresenting what was said to you, claiming it was something different, bringing other factors into play, claiming those factors were actually being commented on and bringing out the pièce de résistance of those losing an argument: ad hominem attacks.
So no, I am not engaging with what you have to say, and trolling me further isn't going to help your case.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
I'm not trying to help my case. I already made it. You should try it some time rather than obfuscation and white-knighting.
What I'm doing is showing the audience the weakness of your position. I'm showing how even a "red-pilled" guy can fall into the trap of siding with radical feminists when women complain about a common enemy.
Don't worry: by not being able to come up with a single example of unjustified female privilege that should be rolled back, you've demonstrated my point better than I could have explained it.
mattyanon 11mo ago
Weak
deeplydisturbed Mod 11mo ago
THIS is the issue right here.
I have long since supported the madness. I think trans women (men?) should be able to invade ALL female spaces - including gynecology, abortion clinics, etc. And women who refuse to use their services should be punished (however mildly) for being a transphobe. Just as some crimes are also labeled "hate crimes", so too should this qualitfy.
As you said, the time to push back was a long time ago. I pushed back and got banned from a number of subs for simply asking tough questions.
Those fine humans can now lie in the bed of their own making.
I do not simp for women - I fought for reasonableness. I lost, this is the result.
So now its time to enjoy the delicious schadenfreude.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
Exactly. When people called this out decades ago we were told to shut up. We were told that we were guilty of the "Slippery Slope Fallacy." We were told that our warnings that these specific things would happen were fearmongering and misogynistic.
Oh well.
I'm old enough to remember when a female sports reporter sued to gain access to male locker rooms... and won. Apparently her desire to be a sports reporter was more important than the modesty of male athletes who didn't want some chick watching them shower and change clothes. Now an assertion that women should be kept out of male locker rooms will get you canceled, banned, fired, and even arrested in some countries with "hate speech" laws.
But let some dude win a head-to-head competion against an inferior female athlete, or some weirdo taking t-blockers change in a women’s locker room, and everyone is grabbing torches and pitchforks.
WE didn't ask for this. WE warned them. WE lost the battle. Now those same people are complaining that they have to live in the world they created, and according to the rules they wrote.
Problematic_Browser 11mo ago
I was at a mandatory fun company event one time, and they had a friendly jousting event set up. Well, fate conspired to put a woman up against me.
I cleaned her fucking clock.
Why do I bring this up? Because I was booed for not playing by the old rules. I literally treated her like an equal - the rules that women insisted on and call men sexist for not respecting.
They wrote the new rules and now that they're realizing that the game sucks, they don't want to play anymore.
lurkerhasarisen Mod 11mo ago
They want to play, alright... they just want two sets of rules to be written so that:
1) They always win.
2) They get to pretend that the content wasn't rigged.
3) WE have to pretend that the contest wasn't rigged.
4) Nobody is allowed to point out that the contest was rigged.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
I dunno. I like chicks with dicks and wouldn't mind them coming into my bathroom. They tend to be way hotter than cis chicks these days. Sure you have to deal with poo/anal but that's way better than these fat, insufferable women soyciety is producing.