I’m sorry but women must think their pussy is the elixir of life. To any women lurking this sub, FYI: it’s not. I’ve just come back from a second date where after having got the meal it was agreed that she would get the drinks at the next bar, fast forward and after asking her to get us two tequilas she gets me a beer and herself a straight vodka whilst simultaneously losing her card.
I pay for this round and she then passes her drink to some stranger because she doesn’t like it and I’m left with a beer I never asked for. In the meantime she’s got progressively drunk to the point where I’ve had to actively call a taxi to take her back home where she breaks a plant pot and then she looks perplexed when I’ve said I’m not staying.
She is 2 years older than me at 30 but you’d be forgiven for thinking she was a teenager with her actions, she seemed upset when I told her she was being disrespectful but I don’t care how good you think your pussy is, I have boundaries. I also don’t need sex so bad I’d be willing to forgive this type of behaviour.
Women will date up because hypergamy, cool. I understand this as a male and to suit my strategy I will generally consider girls below my level of attractiveness but I’m starting to feel like women have received validation to the point where they believe they’re entitled to act in any which way, hell there was a congregation full of them calling their ‘dick appointments’ at 3am after their ratchet club activities just this past weekend.
we can do better, much better than whatever we’re currently being offered.
[deleted] 2y ago
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jjakot 2y ago
Hahahaha cool
[deleted] 2y ago
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jjakot 2y ago
Yeah, I mean I’d rather that than an eating disorder but go off
[deleted] 2y ago
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jjakot 2y ago
You came to comment on a post I made 90 days ago, sort your life out
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
Please use the goddamn report feature.
SmallHandsMallMindS 2y ago
They are dead. The people you see are descendants of Genghis Khan
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
OK I'll throw you a bone here, my brother from another mother. I never dated my wife. She has never dated anyone. She has never drunk alcohol. She would be mortified if I spent a lot of money on a lavish date and think I'm up to no good, a braggart, or showing off my wealth.
Good women don't date. They marry men who court them through friendship. Get a couple FWBs to keep your libido in check and start making friends with good girls. That boring plain Jane virgin that goes to church every week and prays 5 times a day is going to unleash the power of the almighty upon your holy cock once you're engaged in holy matrimony. Nobody tells you about all the nasty shit good girls do for their husbands and they get off on it. They have so much pent up sexual frustration that it's going to take decades for her to get it all out. I'm 46 and feel like I married a porn star after 17 years of marriage to a good girl. I feel like a cow being milked twice a day. And guess what? It's all moral and above board and legit and Godly and all that crap. I can't even cheat on my wife because my dick is always in use. My house smells like Nana Plaza it's so bad.
silly_birb_Banned 2y ago
The sad thing is when the woman you go out with is unpleasant to be with all the time.
Dry conversations unless she talks about her problems and from there to her exes and how all men are gay...
I am not surprised Chad only booty call such women, probably we should all limit our interaction to that.
Why force herself to date if she can't suffer other people's company?
Probably all those hollywood movies with entitled obnoxious heroines teached them wrong.
[deleted] 2y ago
As a Tyrone, I'll let you in on something...
We don't give a shit about their satisfaction. Most women, because of their laziness, don't enjoy sex. After you have a few starfish rodeos, you get extremely selfish because fuck it.
They only fuck us for the status, and I let that be their reward.
WhereProgressIsMade 2y ago
There is a lot less emphasis on holy living in the Protestant denominations I’ve been involved with over the last 40 years. It’s mostly forgiveness, mercy, and grace.
I’m not sure why. Probably too afraid of offending anyone and it being more about keeping people coming than actually trying to teach solid theology.
Ok_Management4634 2y ago
Christian Churches cater to women now, 100%. That's why a woman can thot it up for 10 years, then come in , accept Jesus and get a "clean slate".. That's why men are leaving the Church in droves, there's nothing in religion for men now. Of course, the churches still want money from men.. but like everything else in society.. churches don't give a shit about men .
[deleted] 2y ago
It's about money. If these hoes showed up and were told that they aren't right with god, that their choices have both temporal and spiritual consequences, and were held accountable... They wouldn't come back.
NoonTimeHoopsMVP 2y ago
And social justice
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
They'd have to kick out half the congregation if they didn't allow whores in.
NoFaithInThisSub 2y ago
Funny enough they used to in the 1st century, under Apostle Pauls teachings.
anoncontent72 2y ago
Can I ask two questions? I expect to be downvoted and abused which is cool but I’m genuinely curious. Did you order her food for her or did she choose what she ate? You said you told her to buy two tequilas, why were you deciding what she could drink?
BluepillProfessor 2y ago
Why not? It is a test of attraction. She accepts it gladly if.attracted and gives you shit if not. Never fails. 100% tell.
[deleted] 2y ago
"Where are all the good women?" Already married. You missed the boat. But no worries, should be a fresh batch of 18 year olds coming of age any day now.
OwenWentFullMGTOW 2y ago
Everyone has their own limitation. But this is where I'd peace out.
Mundane_Worldliness7 2y ago
I’m 32, I was raised by my mother and father as follows : If you go to a restaurant and somebody else is paying, you are to eat what you order. No excuses, anything else is rude, don’t be wasteful. My parents taught me that as kid, it’s wild that grown women don’t understand it.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Good. In that case, you should drop this bitch and never see her again.
If she begs and pleads, simply reiterate that you have boundaries.
If something is an actual boundary, you'd be less forgiving because you'd realize that forgiving is often enabling. In this case, you enabled her by buying the drinks after agreeing that she'd buy them and by taking responsibility for getting her home safely after she was recklessly drinking. It's your second date and she isn't a kid. There's no reason for you to take responsibility for her. By doing so, you're enabling the very bad behavior you're complaining about.
As explained above, it's you who is enabling this bad behavior. Stop pointing fingers at men.
Every person chooses their own actions. While it's true that one person's actions can somewhat influence another person's actions, it still remains their free choice.
Therefore, if a woman is acting in a certain way, it's 100% her free choice and therefore, 100% her responsibility. It isn't the fault of any man.
Your post comes across as a bit emotional. I'll allow it for now, because we do allow venting. It might be removed later though.
Stop blaming men for women's bad choices
Also, please remove the man shaming slur from your post.
jjakot 2y ago
Thanks, I can’t disagree with anything you’ve mentioned but it’s certainly given me a different perspective on the outcome of that evening, especially what was within my control, I appreciate you writing this as it’s hard to point the mirror at yourself sometimes but I needed to read this
SeedsOfDoubt 2y ago
A 130lb woman having 2 glasses of wine in an hour (average length of dinner) will have a BAC of .08%. That's too drunk to drive almost anywhere. At 150lbs she will be at .06% and a 3rd drink puts her at .10%. Both women could accuse you of date rape and win. Be smart out there.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
You're welcome.
Please calm down before writing your next post. It's better to write about something that happened last week and not about something that just happened. We want clearly written, logical arguments that demonstrate why men are not interested anymore.
By the same token - try to stay away from highly specific anecdotes. You did this here. Your post tells us about you and one woman. It doesn't necessarily tell us anything about men and women in general.
Likewise, please check your spelling and grammar before posting. We don't require eloquent writing, but we do expect basic writing skills.
enzo-mac 2y ago
I agree that men have collectively given women far too much validation. We love them just for existing and for being there. Women expect more of us - good social skills and network, economically productive, physically fit and able, ability to use "game", etc. If we expect anything of women, often we'll be met with "HOW DARE YOU TRY TO MAKE WOMEN CONFORM TO YOUR STANDARDS. . . .", "PATRIARCHY . . . " "ABUSIVE . . . . "
Not to say that there aren't plenty of men with poor character.
SmallHandsMallMindS 2y ago
Its evolution. There are plenty of men who dont this; they die off and are replaced
polishknightusa 2y ago
A wise woman (really) who managed a dating service gave me advice I didn't listen to at the time: She said "The purpose of a first date is to get to the second date." Unless you can get a one night stand from her, the purpose is to set yourself up in an intimacy zone with them, have the "official" first date kiss (or more), and then set up the second date and make like a tree and get out of there.
Until a man sleeps with a woman in the modern age, she's "winning" by default: Cash and prizes and attention and whatnot. Then after sex, she no longer is the "gatekeeper" to sex and he becomes the gatekeeper to the relationship.
So here's the thing: Women use their FDS game against ALL men simultaneously: sexual ambivalence, don't express interest or respect for men in general, lack of expressed need for men. It's powerful and emotionally easy because such women are treating men like literal strangers. For men's game to work requires men develop emotional pair bonding with women, or more accurately, they become pair bonded to the man and then, and only then, can he start to really run his demands list by her in digestible chunks.
enzo-mac 2y ago
Solid advise man, I appreciate that.
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
Something is wrong with this story.
I know women can be duplicitous and can change in a heartbeat. But you are acting as if there were NO signs or red flags with this one. I bet there were.
There are ALWAYS red flags. We just either
A) Ignore them because she is hot, or
B) Have not learned to pick up on certain ones yet.
I suspect that this is at least in part why you are pissed off. There is also a part of me that has been low key angry for having made all that effort, only to realize that this will never be a relationship. It sucks, if I am being honest.
What seems to be the easiest approach is to such things is pay for the drinks, enjoy the evening, and let things progress as they will - without judgment and without reaction. Do not fuck sloppy drunk women - but never go out with her again.
Some men call it "amused mastery" which to me means "master your emotions" Don't let this shit get to you. It's all a show bro, and you have a front row seat to the freak show. Imagine the stories you'll be able to tell about these things when you get older.
Take this one as a fun experience. Or, you can seethe over it and write to hypothetical women on the internet - some of whom ALSO hate women like that.
Your call. It always is.
[deleted] 2y ago
I echo this sentiment. I will not fuck a drunk woman... Ever. It gives her license to explain away her decision despite her putting herself in a position to be fucked.
I learned this the hard way.
I was at a woman's house and we were drinking and having a good time. She literally pulls me into the bedroom and hands me a condom.
The next morning, she was wracked with the guilt of what she did and blamed everything on the alcohol. Zero accountability. She still, to this day, tries to replicate the situation and I bow out every time.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Well said.
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
Thanks
lurkerhasarisen Mod 2y ago
You ought to sticky this.
jjakot 2y ago
You’re not wrong, I think I’m venting here because after a string of low quality women I’ve realised the effort put forth to organise dates is currently so one sided. constantly having to talk to at least 5 girls because they can flake for absolutely menial things, and of those 5 one might actually have a decent personality so the rest is a struggle, can’t say it hasn’t taken its toll.
I think I’m a lot more wary of red flags but new ones are definitely starting to pop up recently. All I’m looking for is a respectable woman who’s a bit interesting and not a leech, the more I date the more absurd my demands seem
banmered 2y ago
This is an incredibly hard red pill for any young man to swallow. Without these information sources like this subreddit, it was a major society-wide gaslighting of young men. So many plugged-in young men will get to a point in their dating experience, where they think to themselves:
And another blue piller bites the divorce rape dust, taking the first thirst-driven drink proffered. Your standards, if realistically tied to your goals and reason for being, are correct. Reality does not have to meet those standards, and if it doesn't, fortunately men tend to be comfortable GTOW (I strongly suspect that is biologically programmed into us).
I think we're still being sold a bill of goods, because the question should be:
If you only care about SMV, then the solution is actually comparatively simple, already exhaustively outlined in all the red pill sidebars and other resources. The Chad Formula is long time oriented preference execution for short time oriented preference results. Go forth and enjoy, skip the rest of what I say.
I believe those are just table stakes for myself though, because SMV focus is still operating in women's frame, as they decide sexual partners in our society. Chad Formula is simply acknowledging biological programming that FOOF-paths straight to women's SMV triggers. I control RMV, and that's what I care about; SMV to me is a sub-component of RMV. That's just me, though; you do what's right for you.
For men in the developed world aiming their dating activities towards an LTR with an eye towards children in a family with a married/cohabitating committed woman, the odds are, I'm sorry to say, starkly stacked against them in the current social climate. Within the manosphere context, it is every man for what resonates with himself. Whether going the Charlie Sheen, Leo DiCaprio, MGTOW, Greatest Generation grandparents' route, is each man's individual decision, responsibility, and consequences to bear.
For the children-in-a-traditional-family route, it's a pure numbers game of how many women you meet and get to know in as brief a time as possible. This is why college settings are such a fertile ground (pun intended) to accomplish that (which comes with its own set of challenges). But there are other ways to functionally accomplish the same result. Running your own business with lots of public interaction is one. Just don't get into clubs, restaurants, or bars; the ratio of sane to clown world is abysmal in those industries. Running a sports and/or high cognitive activity club with a large social component and high turnover is another.
This is the most difficult and perilous route to navigate, and the highest-risk to men. While we talk about The Wall for women, if a man is dead set on siring his own children within a marriage (I now recommend any young men to establish cohabitation contracts and not marry if they must have children, the legal and financial ramifications too asymmetrically favor women, and a smart woman who follows your lead will follow), there is a wall for men as well for the strategy I recommend for non-1% or better men is to winnow out the wheat: time, lots of time. Around a decade in GF status.
The trickiest part: with one woman at a time. Zero n-count, time commitment with a time horizon that blows mainstream focus and follow up horizons out of the water, and sexual&relationship exclusivity screens for an absurdly long list of hidden red flags. Still lift, maintain frame, be ready to burn it all down and walk away, etc. even with a woman who passes those filters (and it will be singular, "woman"; I estimate in current US-Canadian-EU social climes, no better than 1:1,000 at best in the mainstream, with ROW catching up incredibly fast).
That's where a wall for men comes into the picture. For a man deploying this strategy, he has three, maybe five decent shots in life at getting it right. Maybe. The more shots you take, the higher percentile value you have to deliver. Still better than women who are scooped up by the men who deploy this strategy: they only have one shot to make it count, two if they get extraordinarily lucky. And men do tend to handle sitting with their own thoughts for extended periods (years, decades, rest of life) much better than women. I'm convinced that is why there are so many homeless men in the US, instead of homeless men eating a bullet within a year of becoming homeless.
I believe the key is "date like you are going to live a marriage", if you want marriage (again, I do not recommend, but there is no dissuading some men). Change my mind.
polishknightusa 2y ago
Fantastic thoughtful comment. If you don't mind me adding to it...
"date like you are going to live a marriage"
doesn't work for most men because modern dating is wrapped around SMV and transactional sex. You gotta pay to play unless you're chad in which case, he doesn't need to date anyway. Modern women are taught to be cock carousel riders and/or whores and then after you've gotten to "girlfriend" state with them, you gotta then either evaluate or work to see if they can be reformed into marriage/cohabitation contract with them. It requires high levels of emotional maturity from men, including game, as well as living the rest of his life.
Average_Dad_Dude 2y ago
A man can rant and shake his fists at the clouds due to the absurdity of life and write volumes on how "this isn't how it should be"; or a man can simply embrace the absurdity of modern existence, accept the societal collapse and either 1) GYOW and not participate or 2) "enjoy the decline" and take modern women for what they are.
Snarti 2y ago
Imo there are no single good women older than 24. The good women find their significant other in college and get married.
The rest of them play the field until their pussy juice dries out and nobody wants other men’s cum on their dick.
[deleted] 2y ago
AWALT age has nothing to do with anything. The women of today are nothing like the women 20 years ago.
Snarti 2y ago
IMO age has everything to do with the value of a woman. From 18-22 a woman decides to either play the field or find a mate. The mate finders are the good women. The field players are the thots.
Ok_Management4634 2y ago
While I agree that a younger woman is more likely to be a decent woman, I think what the other posters are saying is that, things have changed in 20 years. I am about your age.. Young women now are much sluttier and hypergamous now . In other words, you can marry her as an 18 year old church going virgin. But maybe when she turns 25, one of her slutty friends convinces her that she's "missing out on so much fun and great sex".. and then she leaves you for the great Chad hunt.
Glad you found a good woman though.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
18 - 22? CC starts earlier. 18 is when it gets legitimate and intense.
[deleted] 2y ago
The two most defining days in a woman's life:
The day she realizes that her pussy will get her whatever she wants
I have a friend, a post-menopausal woman, who is definitely not fucking and hasn't in years. She is CONSTANTLY bemoaning how the young girls get all the attention and can't understand why they aren't making better dating choices. I want to tell her "did YOU make good choices when you were in their shoes?"
[deleted] 2y ago
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SeedsOfDoubt 2y ago
"Reagan? The ACTOR!?" -Doc B
Snarti 2y ago
Agreed with you… my wife was just turned 20 when we met and we got married when she finished her MBA and she was 24.
Every other woman I’d dated who was past college and unmarried was a nutjob. I got lucky and found a GREAT woman. We just hit 17 years.
Aronacus 2y ago
Oh, just wait.
Buy a house and these Thots will find you and be really interested in you.
yellomachine 2y ago
Aronacus 2y ago
Bro, they see you own a house and it's like panties fly off.
Also, if you own a boat!
yellomachine 2y ago
[deleted] 2y ago
This is a fact. I am newly divorced, have my own house my own car, my own EVERYTHING... suddenly hoes come out the woodwork.
If you're a man with resources, a fit body, and a dick that works, women WILL try to glom onto you.
NoFaithInThisSub 2y ago
yep, nation of harlots Australia has become.
Awokeeleven 2y ago
Yes you are absolutely correct. My last dates have been horrible, so much entitlement. It has gotten to the point it’s hard to just have regular sex. Nono, now the first time it should be full package 3 hour porn star sex presentation (from me, not them) if the sex isn’t perfect (and by perfect I really mean perfect) it’s always some whiny shit “you need to use your hands more on my clit” or some other shit while they just lay there moaning like a retard doing nothing themselves.
This has gotten to a point now that I’m starting to evaluate if I should just start going to prostitutes instead, never done it but I think I will in time. I’ve never had any big problems getting sex, but the sex starts to become a big problem. I don’t even like it as much because most women I’ve met in the past 2 years have only cared about their own satisfaction.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Try being married for 17 years. You'd think it would be great to have sex 4 times every day but when it's just so she can get her daily semen dose or spend 2 hours warming up riding your cock so she can orgasm, it's more like work than play.
jjakot 2y ago
A hundred percent this, have no problem getting sex but if I did a serious cost analysis escorts probably win this one
AngryCockOfJustice 2y ago
Imagine if you take her to her home, owing to her inebriated state, left her right by the door, and didn't even enter in her residence. Next day she "regrets" something and accuses you of sexual assault. Twitter will be after you, some white knight will dox you out and you'll spend your whole life proclaiming your innocence while she walks free.
Always a good idea to call taxi if they're stupid enough to hit the inebriated state.
Ok_Management4634 2y ago
Yep, I was at a concert at with a friend recently.. Met a college couple. The girl got horribly drunk, could barely stand up.. Guy was going to call her an uber.. I said, I will take her home BUT you have to come with me , just to protect your gf and me.. So I drove her home, then dropped the bf off. He was extremely thankful.. But guys, be careful.. very careful. (I did the favor to help the young man out, when I was in young, I got in similar situations of a young man with no car and no one helped me)
arokosi 2y ago
OP, my male sibling, never buy a woman anything. The only women who should spend money on are hookers. Everyone else pays their own way. This is called instant leech filter. Special exception for the smurfette who was your buddy during a dangerous SCUBA diving expedition, she gets one free lunch, but that’s an honorary bro.
Personally, I don’t think it’s realistic or sustainable for a young man with a normal or higher libido to swear off women altogether. But it is realistic to filter out the most blatantly parasitic females, which is most but by no means all of them.
jjakot 2y ago
Appreciate the advice bro, and yeah I generally like to split but if a girl is willing to get the drinks after the first bar I’ll get the first round for example. Yeah I couldn’t go full mgtow, I have a high libido, I also think it’s healthy to have sex regularly but there is so little value in the current dating market after you remove sex.
We’re expected to lead the initial interaction, organise the date, carry the conversation and then certain women think they can get away with not even paying as if just turning up is good enough. Not to mention that I would consider myself a better cook/home keeper than the majority of girls I’ve dated.
polishknightusa 2y ago
You remarked about hypergamy above and I want to share my own personal story. I was willing to compromise on a lot of things but wanted women to show they were relationship material and pay their way on a date. A shallow female relative told me "You won't get anything but ugly girls that way!" and... I realized later she was right. I went on a date with a pleasant, likable woman who was just below my very generous, minimal standards and realized to myself that I was dying a hill (women paying for dates) and sacrificing everything else.
So I thought to myself: Sure, I'll pay for dates and not even care about her putting on a BS show of paying for the 2nd round of drinks or paying the tip so she can argue that she "also paid" so she can hold that against me later. I didn't pay for expensive dates but I coughed up the cash WITH THIS CAVEAT:
I WAS GOING TO BE HYPERGAMOUS!!!
That would mean work, of course, but I didn't date anyone at my own attractiveness level. I only dated up from then on. It might mean more game, cold approaches, travel, but I decided that if I put in work, I was going to be rewarded for that work.
Hypergamy requires a sacrifice that women are not made aware of: If someone says they refuse to date below themselves at any level, they gotta "take one for the team" and remain alone just like me on that date-needs-to-pay hill. Since mathematically, particularly in a gynocentric culture as this, there are fewer affluent men than women, many will need to die alone. I decided to go hypergamous on the one thing women did offer (looks) and overall character and the rest... wouldn't worry about so much.
I nonetheless minimized my first dates generosity: I took them out to charming, but minimally prized family restaurants, split entrees with them (it's "cozy" that way), and pre-drank before showing up. When I paid, I didn't do so in their presence so they wouldn't get the satisfaction (and bump me down to beta bux) of seeing my credit card come out. I paid while they were in the bathroom.
SnuSnuClownWorld 2y ago
Slight bit of advice, if this happens again, start openly flirting with the server or another woman in front of her, if she takes offence, simply laugh and act like you dont know what's wrong.
Disciple_Of_Cheesus 2y ago
Where are all the good women? They're gone. Long gone. All that's left are the thots, skanks, gold diggers and the high-mileage postwall rattletraps.
You can try your luck overseas, but there's no guarantee that you'll do any better with the foreign women than you will with the ones here.
It sucks, but it is what it is. Welcome to modernity.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
Traditional churches, mosques and synagogues.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
too true
NohoTwoPointOh 2y ago
So you're getting downvoted. But you have a point..
Know how you hear all of these bargainers talk about the mythical pair bonding? The first thing is that they are referencing a study done on PRARIE VOLES. There is not a single peer-reviewed study that supports the hypothesis that humans have anything close.
So, they then cite a study about n count. Predictably, the study claims that the hoo-ahs (7-8+) have low chances of staying together. The virgins or first-timers did. But they stop there. The study, however, goes on to discuss the sample size. The low n-counts were pretty much all part of strong religious communities.
And it isn't so much the religion as it is the tight-knit community with social consequences. Back in the day when we were like that, homewreckers and thots got excommunicated from the tribe. Ask your Pakistani or Indian colleagues about how frivolous divorce is treated. You are treated like contagion that might contaminate the rest of the tribe. For most of today's divorces, this would apply.
ETA: Are all/most church girls good? Of course not. But tight communities with social pressure and consequences are pretty much the LAST refuge for the NAWALT. And that still means AWALT if there were no consequences in the community. It basically becomes a mirror of what we have now.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
(Preface: Please forgive me for the brainstorming tangent ahead - I essentially concur!)
I agree that most women operate better just going by social consequences compared to just the religious ideas without social concurrence. However, it appears unrealistic to expect social consequences that are a consequence of religion to be upheld without religion.
Most people must believe that there is Good and Evil (in Christian theology, an absence of Good) and that they should aspire to be Good, not Evil. This is where scripture, theologians, church authorities and so on come into play in defining what Good/Evil (based on, let's say, Natural Law etc.) is. These people are the intellectuals guiding the masses by justifying the philosophical concepts (religion) that these consequences originate from with hard-to-debunk (arguably impossible-to-debunk) arguments.
If people reject the fundamentals (existence of God, Good/Evil, etc.) behind the social consequences, they will eventually cease to enforce the consequences at the command of 1) intellectuals pointing out their cognitive dissonance or 2) their own intellectual self-assessment. It seems that women are less prone to 2) than men on average. My controversial take on this is that this is due to a mix of women being more agreeable - which means they have a higher propensity to care about appealing to social pressure in the first place, not giving in to the temptation of 2) - but perhaps even more so because men increasingly outnumber women on the right (although also the left) tail of the bell curve the further it extends. When it comes to the most prominent intellectuals disproportionally being men, it (at least mostly) isn't due to sexism. Women have an easier time compared to men upholding social consequences without the fundamentals, but that won't last all too long until a few smarter and/or less agreeable people question why they are being upheld without fundamentals.
I also like to imagine a graph on how belief in the fundamentals compares to social pressure. It could also be applied to men, but social pressure wouldn't matter as much due to a lack of agreeableness. The stronger the social pressure (led by people who believe in the fundamentals) is, the easier it is for most women to conform without really believing in the fundamentals. But the more a woman believes in the fundamentals behind the consequences, the less she needs society to enforce the consequences; they already stem from her personal, genuine devotion to the fundamentals. If her belief in the fundamentals is extraordinarily strong, it will outweigh and internally recreate social pressure to the extent that a female martyr will die for them. I'm guessing those would count as rare but true NAWALT cases, as martyrs take the consequence of death itself, maybe even accompanied by torture, upon them.
NohoTwoPointOh 2y ago
Agree on every point. Nice, objective analysis.
[deleted] 2y ago
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MrNeurotypical 2y ago
My first encounter with my wife's father was to ask for his permission to marry her. I'm pretty sure he was stunned because he said yes with no questions asked. Apparently if you act like a decent guy and put an engagement ring on a woman and ask her father for permission to marry, father's tend to know what kind of man you are.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
Being a Catholic in urban Europe, I have only had a limited share of experiences relating to fundamentalist and typically American churches. However, I have looked at statistics on things like premarital intercourse rates and a lot of the more "strict"/traditional/fundamentalist Protestant denominations seem to have comparatively good ones. It's disappointing to know that even they are apparently being hit similarly to the woke/progressive churches by the slut-epidemic, but thanks for the insight. There are definitely a couple of good girls a little older than me at the small Catholic mass I attend (even smaller sample size though), so I'm thankful I can't say I personally relate.
That does seem to be the case. I should've mentioned in my original comment that although good girls generally attend them, these institutions still have a scarcity of them. The small concentration is just higher.
If the status quo of morality were influenced more by traditional religious teaching instead of progressivism, non-religious men would have a better chance at finding a quality non-religious wife. But now their best hope is probably a lukewarm semi-religious girl with a good family from a small town, if they can find one. But I believe the correlation between church/etc. attendance and being a Good Girl™️ is stronger than ever before (at least in socially progressive areas) due to the lack of religious status quo influence. That makes the quest a hard one.
Disciple_Of_Cheesus 2y ago
Hardly. In these times, religiosity in women is nothing more than a marketing ploy, or at best a meaningless affectation. Either way, it's just hokum.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
I must of course admit that this is generally applicable. But the chances of a woman being genuine about her religion are much higher if she regularly attends traditional churches (or their equivalent in another religion). Some of us do take interest in theology, genuinely believe and try our best to adhere to a religious moral code.
Whether it's true or not, religion encourages women to be Good Girls™️. This leads to a certain amount of strongly religious women being good girls, especially when surrounded by similar people. Sadly that already minute amount is definitely shriking though…
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
If I had known about good girls before I met my wife I would be on them like stink on shit. "Oh so you're a boring virgin? Wanna be a housewife and mother? Go to church every weekend? Here's your ring.". Would have saved me so much time and money. But no, I wanted what the media told me was desirable. Daisy Duke, Madonna, strong independent women, experienced sluts, etc.
Disciple_Of_Cheesus 2y ago
That's all well and good, but I'm afraid that your numbers are far too small to have any measurable effect. And you even admit as much yourself:
Precisely. For the vast majority of men, there's really no longer any incentive left to go looking about for "the good Christian girl." It's pretty much over and done with.
I do applaud your devotion to your faith, however. 'Tis such a rare thing these days.
NohoTwoPointOh 2y ago
Islam is right about women.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
I completely agree and have a Muslim wife
Raindog92 2y ago
Exactly. It may be an individual solution to look for a unicorn, but it's definitely not a societal wide solution.
throwawayranterz 2y ago
I do agree with you, take my upvote. The point was just that good girls are more likely to be found in traditional churches etc. But I see how it may not be worth the search for many nowadays. And thanks on the last point!
SuperSupremeKai 2y ago
If you were told your entire life that you were valuable just the way you are from a young age, why would you change?
Matter of fact, why change when it might actually make you less valuable than you are now?
That is what's going on with today's women.
[deleted] 2y ago
I'm 53 years old and female. I was NEVER told that I was valuable. I realize that at least one generation has grown up behind me, but those female friends of mine who have daughters don't raise them to be princesses. It astonishes me how Gen Z acts, with casual drugs and sex w/o strings.
InevitableOwl1 2y ago
I always enjoy how we apparently live in a misogynistic patriarchy and yet from when we are young we are told
little girls are made of “sugar and spice and all things nice”
How long has this rhyme existed for? A hundred years? It crystallises the human beings vs human doings and has done for ages. Women have inherent value and men are disgusting and must earn it. And this is just common (perhaps it is only a U.K. thing? Does this rhyme exist in the US?)
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
I heard it growing up in the US. We're also told all men are dogs and all women are pretty princesses.
Average_Dad_Dude 2y ago
And a society where disney tells girls at every commercial break that they "can be anything they want" and my son has to ask "Why can't boys be anything they want?"
InevitableOwl1 2y ago
This is the big thing. Society seems to have decided that men (especially white men) already have access to all the opportunities and can already do whatever they want.
This isn’t true
This is reflected by something a manager at my work said on an inclusivity and diversity call a few weeks ago. There was a sample quote of a statement from a white man worrying they will not have the same opportunities for advancement because of the new minority promoting coaching initiatives
She mentioned she had heard similar comments from her teenage sons. But her worry was more that they believed it when they were “obviously wrong”. It was truly shocking to listen to
How people can sit there and roll out initiatives to align black staff with senior staff to coach them to promotion - something that has never been available to me in 10 years - and claim that there is no issue and that if you are not a minority you have nothing to worry about and effectively “shut up”
WhereProgressIsMade 2y ago
Just pick a minority to identify as. They can’t really argue against you.
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
I identify as a woman now. Doesn't really matter which sex I choose since I'm bi and intersex but for work and scholarships it makes a huge difference.
WhereProgressIsMade 2y ago
I was thinking of going with masculine-presenting, non-conforming lesbian.
[deleted] 2y ago
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MrNeurotypical 2y ago
Oh we had it when I was young but it was used to shame women by pairing them with low value men and bully men by pairing them with ugly women.
InevitableOwl1 2y ago
The thing is even as little as 20 years ago we were changing that marriage part of that rhyme to “sex” and coming up with a new (rubbish) rhyme for the final line
But now it is skip the love and the marriage completely. We still at least had the rhyme say sex after love
SeedsOfDoubt 2y ago
First come lust
Then comes sex
Then comes a baby and the child support checks
MrNeurotypical 2y ago
I think that right there might eventually get you a Pulitzer prize.
NohoTwoPointOh 2y ago
Understudy to our resident poet laureate?
Bronzeraptor 2y ago
This is it. While I'm old school and will keep the original rhyme to teach my kids, I'm sure society in general will embrace this modernization.
[deleted] 2y ago
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InevitableOwl1 2y ago
We avoid blaming men for the (bad) behaviour of women on this sub. That is what women do all the time
Look at every explanation women have for their behaviour :
Hide the fact they are single mom on dating apps > there a male pedophiles everywhere
I am not earning much money > patriarchy and misogyny mean the men have all the best jobs
No one wants to date me due to my high body count > Men are insecure
(I actually saw this last one on a gaming podcast discord server I am on from a woman raising a young girl. No further context or detail was given as to how this made any sense)
There are many more and it is pervasive across all forms of popular media. So we don’t do that here
Women should behave better regardless of whether they are allowed to get away with bad behaviour. It is called morals
jjakot 2y ago
I agree, and all the examples you’ve listed I’ve actually witnessed in real life. I think my choice of wording when relaying my thoughts is misplaced, what I believe though is that the only way this will change is if men stop pandering to vagina, at least it seems clearly that currently women are not self reflective enough to see their flaws so maybe some tough love will at least get them to address said issues.
SnuSnuClownWorld 2y ago
I think it's less about stopping pandering to vajayjay, than its is to totally devalue it into nothingness.
If women want to think they have a pussy pass, as men we should use every opportunity to remind them its attached to half the population, and it's not special. The more use it gets, the less value it has.
Use this at every opportunity when talking with an entitled woman. Because it will lay eggs in their mind that will last forever.
yellomachine 2y ago
mgtow is health. mgtow is sanity. mgtow is self respect.
You really don't need her and you never will.
OhBarnacles_007 2y ago
If men got organized and stopped being fucking simps imagine how the world would change overnight.
yellomachine 2y ago
Well....don't let the mods hear you say that.
OhBarnacles_007 2y ago
Oops sorry.
Men bad. All women problem because men bad. Society bad because men bad. No fun because man bad.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
You misunderstand. We do not allow shaming men here.
[deleted] 2y ago
This is the way.