This is something of a disgruntled critique and will likely prove to raise a few heads, cause some figures in the sphere to dislike me on a personal level, and possibly even cause a bit of controversy, yet nonetheless, I'd like to stick my neck out and state some things on my mind that bother me about the general direction the manosphere has been taking.
I suspect that being one of the oldest red pill posters, as well as a known blogger, these concerns are more likely to be heeded, noted and more seriously discussed as a community coming from me, than they would should the same sentiments be expressed by a less established member of the community.
And likewise as someone who has retained their anonymity, has not attended 21 con and who has not become part of the larger get along gang of "I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" I have a political and economic impartiality to say things pertaining to our fair space that perhaps others do not.
Basically, I don't mind being hated for telling the truth because doing so will not harm any significant personal or economic relationships I have.
I haven't published anything to my website for approximately a year and a half now, taking something of an extended hiatus from writing and building "my brand" (I use that term loosely, because even though it's the byproduct of my mind, it's not a personal brand)
And in that time, the sphere has changed A LOT - and as far as I can tell, is being diluted down and ceased upon by people who wish to hijack the community we've built to push their own personal brands and line their pockets rather than add to the literature and provide a fair value for cash exchange.
Essentially, we're under siege from grinders, grifters, hustlers, marketers and other opportunists who view us as an undersaturated market they can tap in to and sell to.
These types take the social network we've built up through our various forums and blogs which have migrated slowly over to social networks like Twitter over the years as manosphere writers such as myself and Rollo have used it more, and are inserting themselves into that network to rinse the fuck out of the less intelligent amongst us with trite platitudes and rephrased stolen content for personal profit.
We've always had people trying to sell e-books, and even the odd PUA course for sale here and there, but for the most part, our space has remained relatively non-commercialised and has been more about supporting individual content creators who push the envelope through book purchases, donations and even merchandise (Roosh) rather than actually trying to dilute down the core message by corporatising it.
PUA was more corporatised and bullshitty than TRP with the $5k per weekend bootcamps and what not, but the red pill itself has always been quite an organic community where the bulk of the value was provided for free, and the rest was provided for a modest price in a fair value exchange between creator and consumer.
At the end of the day, nobody needs to buy Rollo Tomassi's books if they don't want to because everything in his books is already on his blog. His monetisation of his work is respectful to, rather than manipulative of his followers. This is an ethical form of monetisation, as it allows people to support work they've already enjoyed for free should they so choose, and is more content rather than marketing heavy.
This is what I call a fair value exchange, because you get years worth of thinking and writing for a modest price in something you can physically hold.
Selling a course on how to improve your mindset or make money online for $293 a unit "whilst stock lasts and for a limited time only" whilst employing copywriting to aggressively push this to your twitter following is not.
This is frankly insulting people's intelligence and in all likelihood selling a subpar product that does not live up to the grand claims it makes for a quick buck.
I likewise now see 21 Convention is marketing soap claiming it will "turn you into an alpha chad due to an infusion of pheremones" - other than the immediate comedic value - is this serious? We're selling soap now? Seriously? The manosphere is selling soap? I honestly hope I'm missing out on some sort of joke or something and that this isn't a serious value proposition, but in all honesty, at face value, it appears to be a cheap cash grab.
This isn't even meant as a shot fired at 21 Con, as evidently it's helped a lot of manosphere writers, personalities and other people to network in the real world, and is predominantly an information aggregation service brought to a live speaking format.
But when we start selling soap and claiming it'll help you get girls, there's a degree of corporatisation and opportunism in that I believe to be ultimately harmful to the community, because let's face it, there's no fucking soap on this earth that's gonna get you laid and anyone who buys that shit believing it will is ultimately a gullible idiot.
Be it soap or online marketing courses, it is clear the goal here is the enrichment of the person selling the product, not the transmission of actual useful information that can uplift the dire condition of men by helping to combat the toxic effects 2 generations of divorce and single motherhood wrought by feminism has had - which is after all, why this community even exists to begin with, lest the unabashed pursuit of greed cause us to forget this.
All of this is most evident on Twitter with the plethora of random marketers, narcissistic attention seeking personalities who offer little real value, and personal branders who have popped up out of nowhere and whom have gained a foothold in our extended social network by being a mix of theatrical and consistent in posting rephrased general self-improvement advice, yet who clearly have no desire nor ability to either add or build upon the body of literature we have created, let alone actually admit they are associated with us.
Many take a great many deal of the things we say, rephrase them, claim them to be some sort of innovative and original insight, take the credit, and profit off the back of it as they incorporate knowledge freely given into a paid product.
There are a number of personal brands on Twitter whose following mainly consists of red pillers, or of whom at least got their start from the red pill, who would publicly disavow or even deny being associated with that label.
I remember being on Twitter as far back as 2013, and thus remember the manosphere space on there before personal branders, marketers and other parasites who have added little if anything to the general literature were rampant telling you to sign up for their newsletter, promising they can help make you thousands a month, whilst other uncreative types who could never write an even remotely profound long-form essay to save their lives push the same rephrased general self-improvement advice over and over again in bulletpoint check lists.
These people then have the gall to tell people who call them out "you don't like money" and "you need to stop hating on people trying to make a living" when you call them out on their bullshit, which I have done, primarily because I am an asshole, and secondarily because I am protective of a community I've played a large hand in building that I now see being opportunistically exploited.
In truth, I've made a decent sum of money from the manosphere all without actually selling my integrity and treating my followers like a bunch of idiots by peddling low quality products and services to them with aggressively manipulative marketing language.
If I wanted to read Ca$hvertising, launch a supplement, sell a course, use marketing language to aggressively push products, partner up with some affiliates and put advertising banners on my blog, it is well within my power to do so.
I don't do this, because these are consumer unfriendly practices and ultimately dilute my content.
Does this mean I don't make as much money as I could by not manipulating everybody at every available opportunity? Yes.
But it also means my brand is stronger and more trustworthy, precisely because it does not resort to these cash grabbing gimmicks.
I never actually bothered to launch or sell a product (much to the annoyance of many who still pester me to release a book - I'll do it eventually before you ask) but I've made money by giving people the option to support my work where they see fit
This has mainly taken the form of donations, patreon sponsorship and consulting services, rather than in the form of affiliate marketing, advertising, courses, and the sale of supplements and other subpar products.
I am happy with this form of monetisation, because it allows me to create the content I want to create whilst putting quality first, rather than putting money first and seeing quality as an afterthought.
I respect my followers and want to entice them into supporting good work, rather than see my followers as a flock to be fleeced who shall be taken for coin at every available opportunity.
The poetic irony to all of this of course is that I am the one who is known for more greatly exploring cunning and the dark triad within the sphere, yet when push comes to shove, am one of the few showing the most integrity in actually not exploiting my fans for cash.
I leave you with this final thought:
There's nothing wrong with making money, but there's an honourable way to go about it, and a scummy way to go about it
We, as a community, need be vigilant in maintaining an organic resilience to those who would look to exploit the social network we've built for quick profits, but whom don't give a remote flying shit about men and are ultimately just here to build up their wallets rather than build up men.
When you see this, call it out - force people to make money ethically by providing high value in return for cash, or deprive them your cash altogether.
Allowing for increasing corporatisation of the community will be ultimately what kills it, and we can't afford for that to happen.
bonyfus 6y ago
Its just pathetic to see the othet party just talking bullshit and throwing personal attacks on IM. Just need an intelligent dialogue instead taking things personal.
IllimitableMan 6y ago
They don't want an intelligent dialogue, because they know if we have one, they will lose.
They're not confident enough for a debate, so they throw shade instead. Loyal to their pockets, not the mission.
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FrancoB42 6y ago
100% agree with IllimitableMan here. A lot of these “self help” gurus claim, in their own personal stories, that they were broke as hell when they became redpilled. But now since they’re doing well financially (at the cost of selling other men low quality products), they decide to paywall every bit of information. I usually have no problem with this, but then they started being douchebags and insulting people that weren’t willing to buy their 200-1500$ products and get rich quick courses. These sellers are hypocrites-when they were vulnerable, and didn’t have two nickels to rub together, they took all the FREE content they could, and that is how they built their personal brands. But now everyone who opposes their paywall/scamming business practices is, and I quote “a communist”. The state of the manosphere is so damn ridiculous. These scams will grow, and the shills will get their money, because retards will always buy their products. Patent your stuff while you can, because the con men are actively looking for blog posts to steal and then repackage as a 200$ course. The biggest redpill was realizing that “the manosphere” has become a cash cow, run by hypocrites.
[deleted] 6y ago
I told everyone this a long time. I thought GLO selling t shirts here would lead us down a very bad path. But everyone told me to STFU.
This is just the evolution of a community. Once it gets too large, people take notice and come in just to make a niche for themselves or to try and turn a profit
juliman17 6y ago
Thank you Son Whisperer for being the voice of Reason once again.
Allthough I haven't followed the manosphere lately, I've been around since 2013 and I can agree 100% that the content back then was original and helpful. When it was only independent contributors trying to help each other, share knowledge and help build the community.
I guess to some extent, it's inevitable when something goes mainstream and the masses(low-iq's) take over the narrative by using "democracy" upvotes. There is when some authority needs to come in and insert some influence.
It's saddening to see it dilute and end up being taken over. Glad you spoke out and used your influence for the sake of cleaning and preserving the Manosphere.
Take care IM, (i'll buy your book, take the time you need to perfect it)
YaseenNoorani 6y ago
Been on TRP for about 2.5 years , and eventually started following few people on twitter. Rollo and IM have by far been the most valuable. So much average-value rehashed self help bullshit out there from a lot of others who imply that you're not committed to improving yourself if you don't buy their course or whatever.
Also, I get the feeling that the quality of posts here has dropped significantly compared to the first year of when I joined. Not sure if that's an extension of the what this post talks about or it's just because I've already learnt so much on here that new stuff seems a bit shallow now compared to when I was new
FinickyFizz 6y ago
IM you yourself retweet stuff from Ed Latimore, AJA Cortes.. I was a fool to pick up a stupid course from Christian Mc Queen which I think was the biggest waste of time and these guys who I trusted got affiliate money from this deal. I really should be blaming myself for falling for Christians stupid marketing but I really wanted to get a business off the ground.
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Like you say, it is alright to have them no scamming us, but the entire community is running behind creating a "brand". Fuck the brand guys.. You are scavenging money from poor suckers who are not as cunning or conniving as you are..
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But having said this, you are among the few including Rollo and Quintus who dont sell without having offered value.
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DamnDirtyApe87 6y ago
Wow, some actual discussion here now.. wb IM
johnhawkinsbp 6y ago
LINK TO THE ALPHA MALE CHAD SOAP! PLEASE! I NEED IT NOW. Uh, for a.....friend!
Quo210 6y ago
They are employing the good old tactic the chinese, in their roboticm, uncreative and efficient culture have used for millenia and succeeded: take the works others did, change it, improve it and resell it as yours.
it's amoral, scummy and generates revenue from the gullible by exploiting them. BUT At the end of the day the only thing that matters is power. Integrity is subjetive and only needs to be believed by others. I often manipulate by engaging some emotional and moral sense while I don't reveal my own moral ambiguity to not be socially condemned and retain social proof.
This is core values of the machiavellian tactics. You're not in the game to make the world a better place, you're here to make you a better person. That usually means making a lot of 'bad' moral practices... but as long as they're not revealed, you'll stand in the moral high ground, over others.
If TRP values grants success, do you really think no one will exploit it? This is nature and evolution, an arms race.
It's been said in the past that if TRP went viral, it would die. Maybe this is the reason? It's so efficient any corporative interest will seize it like a rabid animal and mass produce it.
I would you suggest you, and all the original content creators, to patent your stuff where you can WHILE you can. Someone will do it, otherwise.
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
Nice to see you up and making noise IM. How have you been?
IllimitableMan 6y ago
I'm good man, hope things are well on your end.
We should catch up soon!
EdmondDaunts 6y ago
I’ve been developing software and business ideas in my own company which has parallels with this post. In other years I dabbled in online marketing too.
Progress is necessary and often monetising spurs growth as well as produce feedback. Conversely it’s hard to monetise a philiosophy. Demonstrating value first and a long time appears to be the key. Not falling for the fast buck as well.
But as ever YMMV
azeenab1 6y ago
"Quality first" vs "money first" is a false dichotomy. "Donations and consultations are OK. Books and online courses are NOT OK" is arbitrary. There is nothing noble about being a hobby blogger who doesn't charge for his work.
No one is holding a gun to people's head asking them to buy products. Everything you need to help yourself is available online for free. So you need to ask yourself:
Why have most people still not taken action?
Why do they pay for information they can get for free?
Eventually, you'll come to the realization that money is a byproduct of the value you create in the world. The more money you make, the more value you can create and the more impact you can have in the world. In fact, by not charging for your work and limiting yourself to begging for donations and trading money for your time...
You're being selfish.
You could help many more people. You choose not to. Maybe you can't be arsed because it takes too much time to produce quality. (Imagine how much more time you'd have to create content if you didn't need to work a job to pay the bills.) Maybe you think yourself some sort of martyr, above it all.
But if we're talking about impact and lives changed, who has helped more men? You or Mike Cernovich? You or Roosh? Hell, don't even count book and audiobook sales. Just count the website traffic.
How are they able to reach so many?
By charging for their work.
YaseenNoorani 6y ago
Are you implying that IM's quality/value of content is subpar? Compared to who, Mike Cernovich? Troy Francis? Really?!
azeenab1 6y ago
I'm not saying anything about the quality of his work.
My point is that industry and integrity are not mutually exclusive.
TheStoicCrane 6y ago
I don't use mainstream social media and treat unsought advertisements as the Devil's projectile vomit. If the world adopted a similar mindset or at least reduce exposure to a bare minimal these parasites wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Didn't even know this soap bullcrap existed until reading this thread.
278209AR948Q 6y ago
First time commenting here in years. I have been part of this community since 2014 under various accounts.
Ever since the beginning of my redpilling, it was stated that most people use TRP as a stepping stone. Once they figure out the rules of the game when it comes to intersexual dynamics, they find out there are other, bigger games to play. The next step after TRP, in my opinion, is finding out the rules of money making and becoming rich.
RedPill users who created the manosphere are long gone and passed the torch. The ECs that stay here are doing the dirty work of keeping the site clean and teaching the newbies. Most spend a few years here and move on. When I found out about this place, GLO was here, as was Rollo, Oxdada, Omlala, Abdada, Unlce Vasya, Archwinger, Whisper, RPS… and you, /u/IllimitableMan.
Every platform has its codes, its practices and its audience. In 2014 only you and Rollo had twitter. I remember when Ed Latimore, BLL and more were nobody and had 500 followers. You gave them exposure. With exposure, others came, and where there is people, money will be there too.
The surge of personal branding on our corner of the internet can be traced back to you, in my opinion. I understand that, as one of the OGs on manosphere twitter, you see what this has become and don’t like it. Hell, I don’t like it either. What I can say is that peoples’ goals and intentions can be seen now. Most are there to earn a buck or two, which is what everybody wants. But don’t deny this, people saw the example you created and fed off your capacity of creating a following to become who they are now. And now they are milking them for the own personal gain.
You are one of my biggest influences here, but I can safely say that I don’t know which are your intentions. Still anon, nothing to sell. I applaud you for this, as you can say what others can’t. You have the most loyal following of all on twitter exactly because of this. Nobody can do what you do the way you do.
I don’t know if you feel you have lost authority over the place you helped create, or if you are branding yourself as the contrarian of the contrarians. You got goons everywhere. With you not doing long form content anymore and creating this almost cult like following on twitter, I don’t know where you are heading. Anybody with common sense knows to not trust the dark triad master 100%, and I expect you to understand.
We always knew that TRP wasn’t going to last as we knew it 4-5 years ago. The same can be said about the people who were in the SoSuave forums back then. Comunities change, so do the playing tables.
The natural progression from figuring out how to gain self respect and to get laid is to get money. Many of those who follow this path will destroy TRP from the inside. Here, it is a closed area, on twitter, there is nothing we can do. The only thing that occurs to me to influence this in any way is to not follow and engage in those fake TRP guys who appeal to the masses with PurplePill nonsense.
I agree with most of what you have said, IM. I also say that you have had a big part of it, either by influencing or by providing a following. I wish I understood where you are heading, because I owe a lot of who I am to guys like you. I think it's inevitable that where there is gold, a gold rush will occur.
All I will add is thank you to all that made this place what it was, what it is and what it will be.
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
I think the trick is to work with other men to make money in our society. Not work individually to make money off the other men.
That is where the manosphere marketers are going wrong.
278209AR948Q 6y ago
I wholeheartedly agree with you RPS. Feeding off of each other in a loop and a win-win scenario is the way to go, feeding off lost boys and men to earn a buck isn't.
I understand we are at a weird time in the manosphere, as we have always been anonymous and now some are creating their personal brands.
The ones that are creating their personal brands are the ones who will be known with time. This is reality. Soon anybody who thinks of the Manosphere will only think about Rollo, as he has the books.
This is not bad, as Rollo is one of the godfathers, but others like yourself and the others I mentioned, by remaining anon, will be remembered by less people.
This, in turn, creates more authority by the known people than by the anons. Here, the message always mattered more than the person, in twitter it's the other way round.
I can't say more as I have always fed off of the content here and never added anything, which I should start doing.
GeneRD 6y ago
I like the way you write. It will be great if you can start writing content.
278209AR948Q 6y ago
Thank you for your kind words. I am better helping guys in real life than through the internet.
There are things that, no matter the intellect, one cannot understand until it is lived. I am at an age where I don't know people in the ephinay phase, for example. Neither at an age where people my age have kids or get married.
I intend to bring back to life some forgotten content by others who influenced me a few years ago.
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OpenJizzHandFaceSlap 6y ago
Migrate to u/redpillschool platform he listed below.
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
We're working on our alternative, forums.red as we speak...
http://a.trp.red/files/testrender1.png
UnleashYourLife 6y ago
Are you truly unplugged if you understand the world around you, but can't get over the fact that it is a lonely road walk?
The chumps who fall for that turncoat are not thinking individuals despite the fact that they have glimsed the truth. They are no different than the whores with a daddy complex. It's just a search for a new god; For a person willing to speak whatever they want to hear.
He's just trying to recreate "I feel that I'm part of something greater" feeling akin to the gospel mindless tools listen to at the church. It's an illusion, a litteral fecal mattet hidden behind a sugary facade.
The idiots who pay for something that exists for free online are not only intellectually incapable, they are also lazy and weak.
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vandaalen 6y ago
That was a worthwhile watch. Thanks.
chaseemall 6y ago
Have you picked up any Girard yet? It seems right up your ally.
red_dread_redemption 6y ago
Isn't this coming from the fella who sells 'alpha' shirts? How is this any different?
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Collector797 6y ago
Graduated undergrad with a philosophy degree, never read Lacan or Evola. Fun little rabbit hole, thanks for that.
red_dread_redemption 6y ago
Admirable response, and to be honest I never felt you were really pushing the merch anyway. You do come off as having a personal brand, but I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with that, since I think red pill is quite individualistic (take the knowledge & experience, apply it how you want).
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OpenJizzHandFaceSlap 6y ago
Thank you for your good work.
"It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit." Harry S Truman, 33rd president of US (1884 - 1972)
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
Yep. I’ve been writing articles to post when I launch this blog/online mag. Got a couple of other writers producing high quality stuff too. Goal is to bring a red pill awareness to the shitstorm of meta politics and ideology flooding our society.
Seeing this post’s headline made me nervous at first because it made me concerned we wouldn’t be able to monetize. But we have a really quite different project brewing than the grifter marketer stuff.
bringer_of_glory 6y ago
Its the same. You sell stuff, just with a different taste. (In this post, you sell your act of selling).
Your stuff wount liberate the people, as well as the tactical soup will never do.
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bringer_of_glory 6y ago
so you selling people sexy tank tops is an act of teaching people a functional skill? The skill of not buying crap they actually dont need maybe.. :D
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ex_addict_bro 6y ago
The soap is actually legit because it contains u/Rian_Stone's sweat.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Fuck guy, mi sides ????????????
ex_addict_bro 6y ago
Mi fuck guy never, sides, back, front, never
Come to Europe in 2019. British people can hardly understand my accent. Fuck this whole Hegel thing GLO writes about
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RainySeasonInPH 6y ago
Sentiment: 100% agree.
Reality: Mac OS was built off the back of BSD. Get used to it.
xcrazytx 6y ago
I watched a video on 21 Con today and half of it was just this guy selling his shit. "Only $200 for my meditation monitor" "2,500 for a week of meditation with brain monitors- it makes you learn 40 years of zen meditation in 1 week" bull Fucking shit! 40 years of daily zen meditation learned in a week, fuck you, that's an insult to those who practice meditation. That's worse than the soap. Then he's handing out his coffee and I noticed myself thinking about ordering it bc his coffee was "clean and doesn't give you anxiety or a crash" this post just woke me the fuck up from a trap I was falling in. The truth is real men go out and figure this shit out themselves in the field, these videos and all are just one usually 30-something dudes view or experience of the world. The second you notice it is costing you money, red flags should rise. Thank you sir
EPArt 6y ago
So wait one year of monitor meditation would equal 2,080 years of zen enlightenment. If I do that I would be a god where do I sign up!!! In my opinion this shit is just as bad as the wave of shopifiy gurus claiming thousands in their first week of starting a business selling online. Buy their amazing ebook even though they admit they have little experience themselfs.
truckthisfeet 6y ago
Great post. I’ve experienced the Twitter part.
I lingered there for few months in the manosphere and finally realized the influencers over there are mostly there to shill something. Incessant tweets, fights and drama to entertain the followers - finally to sell some course/product.
Is it inherently bad? Probably not. But I couldn’t take it. I’d rather read a redpill book(I’ve bought and read some already) or blog, than the junk stuff that is tweets.
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LegionVarsovie 6y ago
Good to see your insights again IM, instead of shit-posting on TT.
Nov51605 6y ago
is powdered deer penis the active ingredient in the soap ? Will it get me fighting and fucking babysitters like Segal ?
Pezotecom 6y ago
I imagine the "female is the future" shirts but in a manosphere way lmao.
But, in the same example, "female is the future" is definetely feminist, and the equivalent for the manosphere shouldn't be TRP. That way, yeah sure buy shirts that say you don't give a fuck, don't-give-a-fuck-man, but as we all know you DO give a fuck, you may aswell take of your shirt, you despicable little man.
adminsaregayniggers 6y ago
buy my tshirt guys: it says "the future is female" and it's got a picture of an aborted fetus and a city in ruins
RPLawyer 6y ago
Man is a wolf to man.
Even though the manosphere is fundamentally a massive collective ressource to help men achieve success and happiness, you still have to be vigilant and trust your guts: there are snakeoil salesmen out there who realise they can make money on the backs of insecure men who still think there exists a magic solution to their problems.
You don't need a seminar or a magic soap: you just need to read the free sidebar and apply it in the real world. If you wanna go crazy and spend some cash, buy some basic books like NMMNG, SGM and MMSLP. Excluding a new wardrobe and a gym membership, if your Red Pill journey costs more than 30 bucks, you're getting swindled.
Unlucky_Leader 6y ago
You seem to have two major asks.
The first is to have an increase in the literature in the manosphere.
The problem I would raise is that many of these twenty-somethings don't have frontal lobe capacity nor the experience.
The second is skin in the game. The problem I would raise is that as anyone here knows that putting a namesake on any of these ideas is tentatively career suicide. In order to evade this problem authors need to have fiscal freedom. This sub-par products are shilled.
FinancierGuru 6y ago
I'm going to help the OP here, and move away from the blame and complain game he's playing.
I am an author, too. (and I don't want to be known)
I spend an average of 4-5 hours writing a small/average post. OP can confirm that.
And for what? To "help out" a herd of bums? I don't own you anything, you fucking losers.
You can't spend 10 bucks on a book, you're a worthless bum. Most are like that.
Did you know people are spending $22K for a 6-days stay at a castle to hear a 72-year old clown speak to them? It's true. The guy (re)sells them $20 Harvard Business Review cases and tells them what fuckups they are. For the low price of $22,000. Of course, you don't wanna do that.
But you can't spend ten bucks on a book.
I don't own you anything, you weaklings. Life doesn't own you shit.
Keep being a freeloader your whole life. See where you''ll end up.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
This was something I learned early.
I used to price low, and it wasn't worth the headache.
I take it seriously, and charge to filter for those who do. I remember one of my posts had some chore getting mad at me for my fees. I told him, the price is high enough to keep you out.
TRP on Reddit is a horrible demographic, no one in their right mind would even think to sell to it. I know for me, I've given back easily as.much as I've taken, and I don't see a single one of the guys in here spewing vitriol able to say the same.
At this point, I like the guys too much to leave, but more content is a courtesy at this point
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--Sai 6y ago
Could you suggest some @s to follow on Twitter?
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BWet00 6y ago
I, too, had a laugh/blank stare when I saw the promo for the tactical “alpha male” soap. Give me a fucking break.
I didn’t follow the “manosphere” until about a year ago. To be frank, I looked at a lot of the profiles that I would come across on Twitter, scan the bio/feed and my immediate thought on most of them was “fraud”. After following for awhile and observing the sleazy tactics and all of the suckers who get baited, I decided to scratch that part of my brain and do some research on a lot of these folks. Generally speaking, my gut reaction was not wrong. I will not name names at the moment.
Anyone of above average intelligence, discernment and an understanding of salesmanship can see through all of the sleazy tactics that clog up your average “manosphere” feed. The pushing of ridiculously-priced, “limited supply” (LOL) digital PDF courses and literal [snake] oils is unreal. It’s embarrassing.
It’s a bunch of copycats. It’s the year of the e-course. Unfortunately, I’ve seen a handful of people whose opinion I highly respect fall into this trap and sell integrity for a slice of the money grab in this market.
By all means - get paid and find a way to monetize - but it needn’t be done in such a disreputable way.
Your story reminds of me of filmmaker Sam Bozzo's take on film leaks. An early cut of his “Hackers Wanted” film was leaked. What initially looked like a disaster/cause for panic was a blessing in disguise…As it was good film-making, donations poured in. His work was shared far and wide. He didn’t need to dump money into advertising like a lot of big box office, D-grade films need to do to get people into the theaters to make profits on their shitpile scam of a movie. People watched his work and THEN decided to pay for it willingly, despite it being available for free. The only people who don't want their stuff read or leaked are those with shit content...So they put up a paywall, sell you on the advertising and "life-changing" advice on the road towards financial freedom where you make money while you sleep, then fail to deliver (what a surprise).
This is how I feel about all these bullshit artists and courses/products going around. Provide value first and the money will come. Those with a discerning eye see through all of your greasy and formulaic tactics.
Or don’t, and pad your pockets a little bit more but erode your soul in the process.
You're paying a price one way or the other.
What the fuck ever happened to integrity? Death before dishonor for this guy.
New e-course coming out on how to spot fraudulent e-courses. GET ON THE LIST! DO NOT WAIT, AS THERE ARE ONLY 10 DIGITAL PDFS LEFT. SPECIAL PRICE OF
$25,000$497. GET IN OR BE EFFEMINATE.Respeck on your name, IM.
laserdicks 6y ago
This leaves a tiny portion of the population.
BlackendLight 6y ago
I don't think it's appreciated enough how strong persuasion skills are and how many people don't understand it or refuse to believe they work.
Quantum_Pineapple 6y ago
Right? Amazing. Then, you get to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist for trying to explain how psychology works to the average person.
BWet00 6y ago
Good point. Something I take for granted.
I'm a bit conflicted on exposing all of them. Part of me holds the belief that idiots deserve to have their shit taken. If you buy a course on 'How to be a G' for $500 by a fraud failed actor who wears mascara and emo trenchcoats in sadistic F-grade budget films, you kind of have it coming. You could buy 'The Art of War', 'Meditations' and 'The Prince' for under $10 total on Amazon...The real 'How to be a G' starter pack.
The other part of me gets a high on exposing frauds and liars. I've got a dossier on half of these jokers. I don't really go out of my way to stir the pot but if I'm ever provoked I'll fucking ruin them.
virtuous_toobie 6y ago
You should share that dossier
Pestilence1911 6y ago
Dossiers are important.
I too have them on lots of people i dont like, doxxing is easy kids. Zucc does the work for you.
LowSpecTea 6y ago
Literally Christian McQueen w/ that last point lol. I ain’t afraid to take names , that dude needs to be called out.
nabosch 6y ago
Christian McQueen, Nate Schmidt, Chris Johnson, Kyle Trouble, Curtis Chief.
Don't buy their shit, there's nothing valuable in it.
The only valuable course I bought was Ryan Homler's Facebook one.
LegionVarsovie 6y ago
Yet he has back of some respected individuals like Cortes etc. They say his course is not a scam. Sphere is more and more ambiguous.
RP_Mamba 6y ago
It's a case of fellow salesmen having each other's backs. The difference between a guy like A.J. Cortes and Christian McQueen is that there is evidence that A.J's workout programs work (I can personally attest to that). I have seen zero evidence that any of CMQ's products work, he just spouts off typical salesman bullshit that anyone with a brain can see right through.
[deleted]
LowSpecTea 6y ago
Cortes strikes me as a nice guy con. He genuinely wants to help and make men better but I don't believe for one second that he hasn't made his money anywhere else besides the manosphere helping him out.
We are probably the ones who buy his coaching and training and hey more props to him for finding a way to make it work. I like his twitter feed but twitter feed is not the only merit you can have to your name and claim that you are an expert in sports exercise & nutrition(people have PHds in this area)-for me anyway. Other people can believe whatever they want.
FinickyFizz 6y ago
This is my biggest problem with so many of them on Twitter.. I am such low cunning that I fall easy prey for these scams.
LowSpecTea 6y ago
I just deleted twitter off my phone. I maybe check the web version once a month to see what I missed or save some wisdom.
virtuous_toobie 6y ago
That guy irks me. I though he was legit because he was close to Rollo and IM and his blog had some good posts. But then he rebranded himself as 'The Cad Club' (seriously...) and started to shill his bullshit courses non-stop.
There a lot of shady individuals (Ivan Throne comes to mind) rubbing shoulders in twitter with established manosphere writers, and it's getting harder to know which ones are the real deal.
Rian_Stone 6y ago
your friendly neighbourhood whisper already told you what to do
You just have to look at content. And don't fall for this communist crap, where everyone should be giving away everything for free, all the time or else you're being oppressed. Reddit has been a blessed place, where so much is given away for almost nothing. We've all been given a gift, but it's never going to leave this little corner of the internet if we continue to do it like this. And if in doubt, compare it to the success that you've been having after reading and applying what you've read in here (you have been reading and applying the lessons from whisper, RPS, uncle vas, vengeful, Matty, ex addict and the rest of the group, right?)
Honestly, it's shit like whats been going on in this thread that really makes me cynical. It's almost as if a vocal percentage of readership aren't against feminism, with it's boot on the neck of so many men, they just wanted to be the one with the boot and have sour grapes about it. Add to that the solipcism of I don't want it, therefore no one wants it and you've built up a grade A, quality dick-thot.
Maybe it's because I'm bias, I'm in that space now, maybe it's because I know the guys, it does make this opinion a 'grain of salt' type thing. Maybe IM is right, and over the last 2 years he's not been arsed to produce anything, but he's still the moral authority on this amoral place. He's done the feminist frequency business model, and vaporware seems to sell. Can't fault him for that. I've asked him to create, and he told me to go fuck myself, point taken. He doesn't want to create, he doesn't want to work, he just wants to gripe and feed his ego. I wish him luck with that.
It was something my grandmother brainwashed me with when I was young. My grandfather game in from working on his farm covered in dirt. I made some flippant comment about him being dirty, as a 7 year old tends to do. After she reamed my ass out, she said something that sticks with me to this day
"Never insult a man with working dirt on his hands"
It's a marketplace of ideas, and a lot of guys are in it now. People who complain about it not being to their liking are welcome to have that opinion, and I may share it, depending on who we are discussing. The thing is, I would rather have a hundred guys selling sub par content for men, than 1 more effeminate asshole telling me to man up and marry those hoes, or to build an empire to give it to a single mom. the thing that riles me up about it is that no one seems to want to, or be capable of, doing anything better.
Fuck, I'll do my part to help, for what it's worth. Brand new podcast, I'll show up. Brand new article, I'll review it. Brand new twitter account, I'll shout out every chance I get. Least I can do for a guy trying to help men out there.
I really should watch the soap commercial, see what the fuss is about.
JackNapier368 6y ago
The last sentence made it worth the read, you lovely, lovely cunt you
LowSpecTea 6y ago
Ivan throne incredibly enough is one I actually don't mind, he actually has a rocksolid blog and tons of free content so he's paid his dues so to speak; for me anyway...
He just seems to be covering news and what a clever guy he is now but in the earlier pages from like page 10 onward of his home page is where things get good.
https://darktriadman.com/page/11/
Rian_Stone 6y ago
I watched the talk from his partner there, Mr. Swift. I have never been a fan of the 'get ready for the apocalypse' message, but you know what? I kind of see the point, if you get to the core of it. Was something he said that resonated.
"How are you expected to be a good parent if you can't pick up your kid and run 150 feet to your car in an emergency?"
Sure, everyone here isn't going to mercenary it up in Iraq, but he did have a good point.
virtuous_toobie 6y ago
I find him very obnoxious, and his articles aren't that good, he is only form with little content. His 'dark world psychopath' persona is very cringy. IM covers the same topics much better.
Plus I had to unfollow him on twitter because he's always picking fight with random accounts and shilling his cigars.
scissor_me_timbers00 6y ago
Yeah he’s cringe as fuck
LowSpecTea 6y ago
Yeah I don't follow him either, he is cringy but I found his earliest posts to be not atrocious. Things like controlling your rage or some of his analysis on women were entertaining/gave me one or two practical tips to walk away with.
IM is in a league of his own, that much is clear.
newls 6y ago
Admittedly I haven't seen his earlier content, but I laughed recently when I saw his claim that he's one of the "best living writers on Twitter". It's like, even if it's remotely true, don't claim things like that. Bluster and swagger 100% always cover up deep insecurities.
LowSpecTea 6y ago
If he really said that then the dude just lost like half his credibility. A man never brags about himself boastfully. He lets others brag for him.
XtoDoubt 6y ago
How autistic do you have to be to take those soap commercials literally? Am I taking crazy pills here?
le_dod0 6y ago
I'm very glad that a respectable member of the community made this post, I was thinking the exact same things but didn't have the guts to post.
So, thank you for bringing this forward.
Just a few days back I was kicked from a facebook group called "Becoming the ideal man" because I called bullshit on "tactical soap". I made an analogy with the fitness supplements that use all those buzzwords (anabolic, monster, mega shark dick etc) and steroid using bodybuilders on the label.
I saw that this product is promoted by the fellow who runs 21 Con and the guy from Entrepreneurs in cars.
21 Con is just between ethical and scumbag money making in my opinion. Sure, it's great that it promotes TRP in real life, bringing people together, sharing valuable lessons etc... but let's get real, it's way to expensive (or maybe it just seems that way to me because I'm not from the US) and MOST of the content is just rehashed from reddit/trp forums/books.
​
edit:
Sexual strategy is amoral, but taking advantage of thirsty beta guys with crappy products is just nasty.
dulkemaru51 6y ago
All strategy is amoral, sexual and marketing. Taking advantage of thirsty beta guys by selling them crappy products is an amoral act, and what makes it "just nasty" is your opinion which is that it's immoral.
le_dod0 6y ago
A biological strategy that comes from the subconscious differs from a strategy that is well planned and comes from the conscious. Women want better men and men want to fuck more women because it is the way nature designed us. If you decided that the business for you is selling shit to idiots, well, that says something about you doesn't it? Also, selling shit to idiots also says that you can only can offer shit, not something that actually provides value.
Snake oil merchants, scammers, call them what you want.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Entrepeneur in Cars is an example of this it seems. He rehashs TRP advice and rollos books and sells it via his "consultations", which i doubt have much value.
[deleted]
CfromCA 6y ago
What? You don’t want to spend $100 for someone to tell you to “become the best version of yourself”. Crazy.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Totally, $100 is mot enough for such simple advice
/s
OpenJizzHandFaceSlap 6y ago
Very true. However, Richard Cooper (Entrepreneurs and Cars) gives damn near all the his credit to Rollo all the time. Much of his advice is great introductions for BP men. The man is also a very successful self-made entrepreneur in Canada. His personal space makes it quite clear money isn't much of a factor for him. I wouldn't know, but if I had to guess Richard charges a consulting fee as a means of filtering the people that are serious about seeking his advice. Just my two cents.
red_philosopher 6y ago
There's money to be made with things that work. Ethical business would suggest that helping people, for a price, comes with the commensurate duty to not commit copyright infringement. While original content can only go so far, people like gaylubeoil are at least taking steps in order to spread the RP mentality to those who seek it.
Here, we have walls and walls and walls of text. Some cannot easily or effectively process or put into practice the teaching here. It is difficult to codify, difficult to understand, and difficult to fully comprehend due to it's diffuseness. This creates opportunity. There's very little humanity about it as well The darkness of social media limiting the scope of the message day in and day out. Sometimes, a human face is all that is needed in order to deliver a clear, actionable message.
I've had some success one-on-one delivering a RP message, the need is there.
mallardcove Endorsed Contributor 6y ago
Here is how I see it.
I think the best way to go is to offer your stuff free of charge at first. But eventually you will reach a point to where you have achieved saturation amongst your intended audience. At that point if you want to start charging people, do so not to make money and take advantage of your audience, but because you feel like your audience has reached a point in which they would be willing to compensate you for your work. In other words, if you know your audience is interested in a more objective way to look about things, and they see the value in the material you produce, they will be willing to compensate you.
With that being said, I believe a full paywall isn't the way to go. Offer something for free on the surface, and if people want to go deeper, that's where the subscription/paywall can come in. People who are in it for money won't do this, and that's how you can sniff out the bullshitters.
azeenab1 6y ago
This is exactly how every authority in the manosphere operates. That's how blogging works. And it doesn't matter which way they choose to charge for their work. They are all charging for their work. There is nothing wrong with this, except for the fact that waiting years to sell a product or service is ass-backwards.
[deleted]
IllimitableMan 6y ago
I wholeheartedly concur.
replicaplater 6y ago
To some degree the monetization of TRP was inevitable. The fact that its taken this long (~6yrs) is surprising to me. If anything the delay was probably just a function of this community being an "underground" non-mainstream movement. Like any other movement or even private club for that matter, once a certain critical mass of people is reached, the vultures move in and commercialize everything and it loses its original value and the message gets watered down.
To some extent I also wonder if this influx of commercialization isn't just a result of the lack of really novel concepts/philosophies within the manosphere. In a sense, a large portion of content that I've seen posted on this sub is some derivative or amalgam of concepts that were put out there a long time ago by Rollo or someone like Pook. I'm not saying I've come up with a paradigm shifting theory myself, I'm just observing the general trend of content. Restating the fundamentals and reading about them isn't a bad thing per se, it just becomes repetitive and tedious. I could see where someone providing content gets burnt out and just decides to monetize the message and start diluting it with filler so that people will have to buy more content to get the full message.
Regardless of where the manosphere ultimately goes, the core principles are always going to be out there in one form or another, especially in the "classic" time-tested stuff.
chaseemall 6y ago
I’ve sort of moved from thinking about things at the individual level, to thinking about things at the civilizational level, especially in regards to the metaphysical. The stuff I learned here was a good grounding, but there isn’t that much more without going beyond the individual or material level. My contributions really aren’t here, but in the stuff I’m working on IRL.
Who the hell knows? Maybe a paradigm shift is right around the corner. Who am I to say?
Edit: damn punctuation
[deleted] 6y ago
It makes me wonder what's next for trp. I find myself reading the posts on here less and less because they seem so repetitive. I feel like things have changed especially over the past few years and not in a good way.
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
Here's what I see.
Sexual dynamics are important to learn but once you have them under your belt it's nothing new. For instance, I've been here a while and almost no post here is fresh to me.
What is fresh is developing successful life strategies for men once they have the building blocks necessary to get started.
Some of what I'm working on for the new site include tools for coordination among smaller groups of men. I think communication between men is going to be the biggest point of contention in the coming years and I want to get in front of it.
The broader picture is that I think every man should have a mission and work on gaining the power and community to make it happen. Strength is in brotherhood in my opinion.
My personal goal is facilitating this connection. What will your goals be?
Unlucky_Leader 6y ago
I think in the United States the key priority is economic success. Which facilitates everything else.
Annnnnnddddd we are back to the main point of OP's post.
[deleted] 6y ago
I think this is a great idea and I would like to see more personal and professional development stuff on here alongside the sexual dynamics. We need a stronger community now more than ever and I don't just mean between men.
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
I know I say this a lot (It is coming!)- but a huge number of new features I'm working on for TRP.RED and forums.red are specifically to facilitate communication and interpersonal development.
Right now, how would any of us communicate to accomplish something except through a platform that hates us?
virtuous_toobie 6y ago
Unironically the incel/blackpill community. They are in the MGTOW phase now but just wait. I recommend following @thefaceberg on Twitter.
BillyRedRocks 6y ago
In the subreddit people are endorsed for a reason. On Twitter everyone can claim to be Red Pill, all he has to do is put "Alpha/cad/Red/whatever" in his name and bio. If you want to start exposing frauds for what they are then make a list with TRP Red endorsed twitterers/ scammers/blue pillers that claim to have smth to contribute and let the manosphere wars begin once again.
When Artful and Stedman started their bullshit upstream twitter this opened the doors for more crap like them - "Rollo doesn't want ppl to discuss things whaaaa" "Rollo calls me purple pill because I shove blue pills into little kids assholes whaaa"
Guess what - it worked and now there are thousands of retards regurgitating their words.
If you want the red pill to have a secure footing on Twitter there actually have to be Red Pill writers on twitter. So far all there is is Rollo, Rian, and GLO. You said it yourself - you haven't put out anything in a year, victory has defeated you if you don't want to lead your red pillers to red pill valhalla someone else will take your place, and that someone might be a 60kg never touched a barbel in his life Tap Soymen.
You're the Dark Triad Expert, dealing with some wimps on twitter shouldn't be a problem for you.
ozenmacher 6y ago
I think the other way you can look at it, whether you may think it is good or bad, is that the expansion of the manosphere through the free market will and likely already has resulted in it finding a larger audience. The reality is the manosphere still only reaches a small slice of modern society. And in my opinion, the more the better. Even cringe shit like RSD can have real, positive confidence boosting advice for a life long blue-pilled beta. Personally, I am all for the message of the manosphere to reach a larger audience. Eventually a red-pilled man will find his own truth, and will wade and see through the BS along his journey toward self-improvement.
Gimpness 6y ago
PM me if you want alpha lotion, will pump up your testosterone while you pump your penis.
You want your LTR to grow back hair? Look no further.
Vikingcel 6y ago
The most alpha lotion is the original gaylubeoil.
​
Auvergnat 6y ago
It’s quite ironic to see the Manosphere’s Master of Machiavelianism complaining about the perceived lack of morals in the tactics of some people.
If a personal profit can be made, there will be people going after it, even if it comes at the detriment of the community (here, low-value washing). This is how humans roll, and redpill-aware people, who have learned to identify and acknowledge the dark side of human nature, should really know that by now.
This is exactly what happened to the pick-up community. Before the expensive bootcamps and books/dvds for sale, it was simply an internet community sharing tips for free. Then some realised the money that could be made. At start, it was only the established gurus with true knowledge and the price was probably about right, then everybody jimped on the bandwagon, including many low-quality / scam. Every human endeavour follows that process. If anything, I am surprised at how slow it’s taking the redpill community to monetise. My take is to let the Market be. Good value-for money offers will thrive. Bad ones will quickly whither, though like weeds, they grow back faster that you can uproot them.
All in all, I think you have the right to complain, but why bother? It’s like a TRP newbie complaining about Hypergamy.
U-94 6y ago
You can trace cultural trends and memes on reddit and easily set up a t-shirt business on redbubbe or etsy. In fact that's all those t-shirt companies do. Do you think ugly/nerdy x-mas sweater makers don't just rip off whats being shared the most on social media?
chaseemall 6y ago
Here’s the thing though, men cooperate. We happen to be pretty good at that. We instinctively form and police hierarchies to cooperate. We naturally police these hierarchical cooperation structures for the collective benefit of the group.
The Endorsed Men on this sub happen to be at the top or close to the top of this cooperation hierarchy. In Vox Day’s terms they’re the alphas and betas, most normal types like me are the deltas, of varying contribution, and concern trolls are the gammas. Who polices the group? Primarily alphas and betas. I don’t think that calling out things that are inherently destructive to the group is outside the purview of people at the top of that group. It’s actually sort of their role (and what you’re doing in this comment, which I get). What IM is talking about is something that can destroy the signal to noise ratio. Moreover, it is something that can kill the group. Nobody talks about PUA communities anymore.
zyqkvx 6y ago
You have my upvote. I see it the same way.
TheSeaOfFog 6y ago
Commodification is inevitable.
America commodified free love into an ad for sugar water. You can screech with the feminists or accept it.
This said, the soap was bad enough but Richard Cooper’s totally not made up vlog about “Easter” Europeans should open everyone’s eyes that he’s nothing more than a fraud.
I like TRP but there’s a lot of beta intellects punching above their weight class.
MattyAnon Admin 6y ago
Limited edition MattyAnon TShirts are available in my e-shop.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
Too many channels to keep up. What did he say?
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
IllimitableMan 6y ago
Link the post because I can't even find it and the fact you link it to this is just weird and irrelevant - as if to suggest without that post I wouldn't give a shit our space is filling up with charlatans
It's a preposterous claim bro
IllimitableMan 6y ago
Telling me to be the change I want to see when I literally do none of the things I'm criticising and all of the things I advocate for is moronic.
I have never said the red pill is for losers in any kind of demeaning context, and wasn't even aware "Rollo gave me a jab the other day" - if he did? Why? What's the point in that, and why do you feel the need to do what you claim he did now?
Likewise, speculating on my relational status is utterly irrelevant to anything - something I would expect from gossiping young girls.
You've always been fairly hostile, disrespectful and provocative towards me, and for the most part I have ignored you. I don't know what your problem is because I've never been indecent or untoward with you, but I do not care for it. Have a bit of decorum.
You don't have to like me on a personal level, but to deny I'm a net positive to the community and berate me in your typical hostile fashion is a weak take.
I suspect something I've said here has touch a nerved for you in order to elicit such a reaction.
If all you have is belligerent contempt, lies, gossip and libel rather than balanced criticism to offer me - don't bother talking to me. I'm not interested.
[deleted] 6y ago
[deleted]
IllimitableMan 6y ago
Don't agree with your take, but this was better than the first post.
I have no problems with Rollo (I literally compliment him in this thread so I don't know why you keep reiterating this) and Hotep Jesus tried to troll me for his self enrichment.
Honestly, you couldn't be any more biased if you tried.
As for random twitter girls begging you to start beef with me - that'd be a bad look for you. Don't act like you're doing me some kind of favour, because if you were, you'd have come to me before and said "look, this person is talking shit about you, but I got you"
To be honest, all these interactions should be had over DM and not in public on Reddit, but if they were done privately - there'd be no audience and it'd be meant in earnest as opposed to being performance art.
Soap isn't helping anyone unfuck themselves, but not going to lie, that commercial is hilarious.
SammyD1st 6y ago
He deleted his comments - who was it?
Also, wasn't the soap thing a "Fight Club" reference? Just wondering.
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KeffirLime 6y ago
TRP itself, the established community, is fairly well guarded against exploitative monetization for the simple reason that there is such a vast depth of content archived here for free. There's very little you could say that hasn't been said already, intersexual dynamics can only change so much.
It's not really a great marketing hitch either. "This is not a quick fix, this will take time, you need to work for it"
There's certain individuals who have thrived out of here, like yourself, but that's not because of any aggressive marketing, but rather because of an extended preview to their work. The risk of investment for their followers was minimal, they were already obtaining value and are now simply compensating for that value.
It's probably the only way TRP could be monetized, and I take no issue with it, infact I prefer it. To expect individuals to consistently devote time and energy to your benefit without any compensation is not reasonable.
Having said that, new (desperate) inductees to the manosphere as a whole, and even some here, would be fairly susceptible to being sucked in to marketing gimmicks. Which is a pity, because selling them some bullshit magic medicine is counter productive. It will push more away than it draws in, and those are the ones that need to be drawn in the most. TRP's quarantine doesn't exactly help either, finding us is harder than ever.
More ad's/marketing/monetization also tends to bury the quality and make the core message that much harder to reach, however in a growing market where money can be made it will be made. Your warning is relevant and I suspect consistent warnings and opening/promoting the right channels(directing them here/Rollo/Yourself) is the only defense against it.
redpillschool Admin 6y ago
We've also taken a very hardline stance against blatant hijacking of our popularity for marketing purposes.
For instance, we've had a ton of guys write shitty blogs pushing a product at the end to "solve" the problem. They get removed and banned.
We don't allow people to use TRP as a funnel to paywall sites.
We do allow people to publish entire articles and link to their own source.
We do allow certain long standing members to offer a way to tip (GLO's T-shirts which isn't exactly making anybody rich, TRP.RED Tipping (to any member!), and a few members have patreons (including IM and myself). But once again, we only do so if it's not required for the actual content. TRP.RED and FORUMS.RED will always be free. For me, this is a project of passion.
Anthony/21 convention is an interesting case. On one side I like the idea of supporting a men's convention and anything that increases communication and networking between men should be embraced.
On the downside, I'm not sure the convention itself needs to be as expensive as it is, and Anthony has no idea how to play nice, getting himself into arguments with the mods here regularly.
The unabashed marketing of soap puts him squarely in my do-not-trust list. And I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because he says it'll get you laid.
I'd better trust somebody who says "here's a public good that I'm doing, and here's some neat soap I like. If you buy it, it helps me to keep doing what I'm doing."
But as far as I can see, his only public good costs $1700 for entry.
Am I wrong about this?
Dream_21 6y ago
Yes, you're 100% wrong and currently lack a basic understanding of 21 Studios and 21CON.
KeffirLime 6y ago
It's alot. I'm not willing to invest any amount of money that doesn't yield a corresponding return. I can't say if 21con fits that model.
Having said that, personally, I am appreciative of the effort to gather men in a masculine hostile era. It's a necessary endeavor and I think he could rightfully retort, well, who else is sticking their neck out.
So for now he's doing more than most, while charging more than most.
The challenge I guess, is building alternatives. Getting guys together, discussing these ideas, implementing them.
How that get's done is up for debate, but I think the opportunity is there and it's ultimately the logical next step if the ideas presented in here are to take shape out there.
le_dod0 6y ago
Check out my post below, I have exactly the same feelings. Good to see I'm not the only one.
Imperator_Red 6y ago
$1,700 is absurd. I am thankful for the work the mods and other contributors do here with very little in return, but in this case it is hard to come to any other conclusion than that the 21 convention exists to separate fools from their money.
zyqkvx 6y ago
I was brainstorming once, and thought maybe it would work to simply offer content free, yet have a store to buy regular branded stuff that everyone already buys, such as Tide laundry soap. Then expand the store to things a TRP minded person would buy. Such as a Wahl Magic cordless razor (for beard shaving), Andis Slimline (for edging), Andis Profoil (stubble/cleanup). These are the models you would actually have if you were in the know, the one's I use. Take Amazon linking profit. Later vertically integrate, start a 'dollar shave club' doing the same thing they do. Express that the shave club model is fungible and that procedes go to support the forum without buying price ramped products. That's the gist. Call it 'The necessary Good' since prices aren't ramped up and they are products that raise the quality of men's lives. It sounds absurd, yet that's also the costless marketing pitch.
Expanding. Coupled with the online TRP store could be video tutorials how older guys can keep their eyebrows trimmed. A video on what soaps are shit and what ones are good, offer link to the house soap. It would be a side tutorial based online store that was it's own little world in the sidebar, so to speak.
So you could start selling tweezers, all kinds of stuff. Anything that is actually relevant to the subject matter of self improvement. If the product is unbranded for God's sake don't call them 'Alpha razors'. Maybe call them TRP Basic. Much like Amazon has their 'Basic' line. In the store you could have a button that was obvious but not too invasive that read, "Learned some things from these videos? Want to be supportive yet going with a product elsewhere? Skip it and simply donate $5 to cut out the noise'. That's too wordy, but basically that. Then tote that your monetization is the most honest, transparent model that the organizers could conceive. It's relatively low maintenance.
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Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
I remember Mike Cernovich from his dangerandplay days. He used to give good advice, be masculine but now has went full cuck mode pushing his shitty book (which is merely a new age rehash of Marcus Aurelius), supplements and movie. The guy also went against his own principles in dangerandplay and got married.
FinancierGuru 6y ago
Hey, take it easy and slow on Cernovich.
He has monetized the manosphere better than anyone.
GM sold 35,000 copies the first year, 35K the 2nd Year, and is close to his target of 100,000 total after more than 3 yrs. now.
Show me somebody else who has reached that level of success.
I'm not his fan, but I won't deny him credit when due.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
How do you know it sold those numbers? What is the source? If this is true, that is impressive.
Sure he monetized it and thats nice, my issue is that he doesnt believe in the manosphere that gave him much. He paid it lip service but then never followed the principles (ie he got married and is writing some cucked shit on his insta).
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Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
I agree with you. This problem that you discuss (ie infighting/profit seeking) is a huge problem in many movements especially given the American belief that the highest virtue is money. It is a symptom of weak centralized leadership. I believe that theredpill/manosphere should move towards a centralized leadership with a few men acting as 'authorities' that have the ability to discredit a certain writer. Moreover, it should be a non-paid position so that only those with passion for the craft seek it.
As for mike, i agree he jumped on the trump bandwagon when it was popular and moved away from masculinity. I think that severly diluted his message. On instagram he posts peoples answers to questions and theyre all bluepill. The guy is hinself a fraud.
Also, i feel thats the case with entrepreneur incars. The guys trying to rehash Rollos/TRP concepts, get paid for shitty consultation sessions (what makes him an authority to offer consultations) and is writing a book. From the excerpts i've seen its not high literature nor does it push the envelope of redpill knowledge any further.
Only decent guys on 21 convention are you, Rollo and Jack Donovan
Rian_Stone 6y ago
Thanks, I truly appreciate the vote of confidence. It means more than you know.
And honestly, I wish more guys were in this space. If guys truly care about learning, being better, and advancing things, at some point they will need to either contribute, or admit they never cared enough to in the first place. Even here, we got EC's way smarter than me who aren't more public, and for good reason.
It's not as it the market is saturated or anything. All I'd want is to earn enough so that I can consistently make the mortgage payments and leave the corporate life while I spend all day writing, lifting getting better at game, and otherwise producing for a lot of the guys out there who need or want it. Apparently my dream is so low the guys like fun at me for it ????
At some point people are either going to have to produce, or admit they didn't care enough to bother.
As for the payment, guys who are worth a damn have financial obligations. Make it free and only NEETs will do it. One of life's tradeoffs I suppose
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
I do not feel I am at the level yet where I can make significant contributions through worthwhile posts, so I try to contribute through comments.
What i fear is that in pursuit of profit, the quality of posts would go down to be replaced with writing meant to generate money. I see what you are saying about life obligations and respect that but many things were written in the past that were written out of passion.
How would one monetize something like the redpill anyway? Maybe the ECs could do "personal training" but in terms of taking mentorship of boys/men with potential and train them. If the ECs select them say every four months, this will create competition to generate the bests posts/comments/insights/improvements?
Rian_Stone 6y ago
When I get an answer, I'll let you know.
For now, I'd rather act and reflect, then reflect and never act
le_dod0 6y ago
A great idea to monetize red pill and offer value to society would be a private school for boys. My 2 cents.
Chaddeus_Rex 6y ago
Yes. Another idea is to do 'redpill getaways' where men go into a forest together for a few days, to hunt, fish, show feats of strength, practice social skills, talk.
napthaleneballs 6y ago
As a fairly new redpiller, I would say that after reading everything Rollo has written on TRM, 95% of what I have read elsewhere is covered by Rollo. And the rest can be found here.
I have never paid for a digital product in my life, and generally, the products which are heavily marketed by creating a fear of 'missing out' are never worth the money, or in my case, the effort of scouring the internet for the magnet link.
I generally consider audio/visual media far inferior than the print media in terms of quality and quantity of the information, save for some cases where it's necessary, (e.g. video editing tutorials) or where the print media has not caught up with the changes in the sphere (e.g. Poker).
The manosphere is neither of those cases and I believe these people are taking advantage of fools, and smearing the name of TRP in the process. But the thing is, we are already comfortable with people hating us and making fun of us, and the people who buy these products are simple folks who in my opinion, can't be redpilled.
MrCongeniality1 6y ago
Dr Squatch is a really good brand of soap - more glycerine, fewer detergents, doesn't dry you out.
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MisfitPL9 6y ago
Wizards First Rule - People are Stupid and will believe anything. They will believe a lie because they want it to be true, or they are afraid its true.
KewlThanks 6y ago
You get all you need from here and experience.
I went from drugs to clean living so I had the not giving a fuck thing down easy, then realized you can give a fuck, and not give a fuck that people care if you give a fuck, that's true freedom and it's...at the most basic level just being you but accepting the anxiety of life and being accepting of it all. And then comes stoicism and people look to you.
But you don't need to pay for shit, it did take me...shit what's it been? Found this place in about 2014...now I went through some hoes and think I got an LTR, but...I'm not trusting and don't care, she's great to be around but I have a safe level of detachment, and am just enjoying life and enjoying me. You need to develop narcissism, you're a male, you had to do WAY more to get where you are. To go to the same college you had to impress teachers at a higher baseline, if your presentation was bad, you were a fucking loser shaking, you weren't a doe-eyed girl who got points cuz teamwomen or the protector instinct kicked in for whatever pedo male teaches HS (I kid, sort of..it's a weird profession for men to pull off), but yeah, you should already be a confident fucker. Here I am giving you kids the tips. I'm not worried about competition, we have enough globally, and there's so many fucking losers beyond redemption there really is more than enough pussy out there, it's cheap, or as expensive, as you make it.
Wow if you remember me from 2014, how I've grown. I could never imagine having head when I want on demand, then leaving and not being obligated to text her unless I want to...shit's crazy. Head is better than sex I don't care, head all fucking day.
Yeah don't pay for shit. It's all here.
itsjustsimon- 6y ago
Oh let get this straight; Some of the redpillers actually had balls to step in front of everyone and expose themselves, now some people here are mad because they would rather stay safe and anonymous. Now they are mad because some people are monetizing out of it. Cmon man.
I would pay someone who would put all this knowledge in audio/video format simply because I like that kind of format more. You can argue all day long how everything was written before and who came first with the idea, but I really don't care.
I'm not buying soap or PUA bootcamp, but telling me where should I put my money... none of your business.
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IllimitableMan 6y ago
You sure I'm not mad because BLL was posting "tell your wife's son this" instead?
You sure seem pretty mad taking any available opportunity you can to besmirch my name.
What's rattled you eh?
You're dramatic Rian. It's unbecoming.
Whilst you're pulling shit out of your ass - link the actual tweet I'm supposedly so upset about it compelled me to write a thread addressing the state of the community a whole 3 days later - why didn't I react sooner?
You're a shit talking idiot.
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IllimitableMan 6y ago
You're clearly a bad actor playing mind games to bolster your profile. It's a shame others have no issue associating with you when you engage in such antics.
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