Been in a relationship with HB8 for 3 months. She is the same girl I posted about last time. My first time having a girlfriend.
My old post is here: https://www.forums.red/p/asktrp/324472/are_these_iois
On a new account because my old email address got hacked. Thanks mods for helping me clear it up.
What do you do if your girlfriend seems to have a swarm of beta orbiters and simps that are always trying to kiss her ass and get access to her?
What do I do about how she snoops through my things?
Is it normal that she is dominating my space, bringing a suitcase load of beauty products every time she stays over and leaving half of them behind? Five different kinds of shampoo in my shower, bottles of lotions in my car and my office and every room of my house?
Are these things normal or are there actions I should take? She is a very nice girl and I am happy. She is bright and cheerful, pleasant to spend time with, understanding, tries to make me happy and meet my needs.
Thanks lads.
Edit to answer own question:
I think red pill would say it would be to have other options and not focus on one girl but she is extremely hot while I am disfigured from an accident. Don't know how to get an abundance mentality when other women all think I'm scary. Act confident but honestly feel lucky that even one hot girl thinks well of me.
Musicgoon78 3 1d ago
Look bro, I just got to this question. I'm going to take a stab at it. First off, she obviously sees you as her hypergamous best option. So betas are always going to swarm around hot girls. All this means it that you've landed a baddie! You're job is to not give a shit and fuck her properly. She's not going to leave you unless you stop working on yourself or become a beta pussy. So don't worry about the simps. That's normal.
Second is don't let her snoop through your shit. That's a boundary that she shouldn't cross. Here's how you handle it. "Babe I've noticed you rifling through my shit lately. That doesn't work for me. If you want to know something, ask me. My belongings are personal. And I don't want anyone touching them."
Her leaving shit at your place is like an animal pissing on things to mark it's territory. Luckily this shit doesn't smell like piss but it's annoying. It's a sign that she really wants you. How to handle it? "Babe, this place is getting way too cluttered. I don't care for that. Keep one or two items here that you like and take the rest home. I'll get you a bag to put shit in."
Don't negotiate, just inform. This keeps any argument out of it. Just stay warm and firm. Not angry or aggressive. She will listen and respect that.
This also gives her some structure and sets you up as the man who leads.
Enjoy your relationship bro.
robert87 1d ago
Thanks a million guys. The red pill shit really works! Still can't get over that - holy fuck, does Big Titty Teen Girlfriend really think I'm her hypergamous best option? I was a virgin heading towards inceldom.
Musicgoon78 3 1d ago
Brother, I was in the same boat all the way up to my early 20's. Inceldom was not a thing back then, but I could see the younger me found down that rabbit hole. A woman that gets jealous and weary of her man is a woman that values her man. If she's doing that, she see you as her hypergamous best option. Take the win instead of subconsciously disagreeing with her.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4d ago
No one answered so I'll give it a shot
1
It's a woman's job to regulate access to her in a committed relationship, including orbiter attention (aka back up options) and she isn't. Red flag.
2
I find this behavior to projection. Women who are so jealous and insecure of you that they have to snoop themselves would do something shady in my opinion. Not a 1:1 correlation but I've seen it enough times this is a red flag.
Even if it isn't projection, it's clear disrespect. Established firm boundaries and red lines, tell her overtly it's unacceptable and that you won't stand for it and make sure you actually walk out of this if she continues. Don't go back on a boundary you have established
3
Absolutely not. Considering most men don't even like this much makeup this is completely unacceptable and it is unacceptable anyway
Women like to mark their territory with hair clips and panties etc but this is over the top and you're in her frame if you're allowing it. Say a firm no and either leave her suitcase outside on your porch next time or stop seeing her over it if she keeps disrespecting you
Further, depending on where you live (local laws) and how much stuff she has left behind, she can actually squat if she's crazy enough. She can claim she lives there because she has so much stuff in your house. This isn't okay
4
And yet you got her anyway and she's jealous of your perceived options
There's your abundance. Tolerating major boundary crossing and attention seeking from other men is unacceptable
You need to put up boundaries because she will eventually leave you over your lack of them after she dominates your frame
You should probably not be in a relationship with a woman like this and should take the confidence boost you got her and pursue better women imo
GeorgeIII 4d ago
Verm has already answered most stuff.
I’d just add that I wouldn’t be too worried about beta orbiters, within reason.
Understand that even most 6’s have orbiters. It’s practically guaranteed that an 8 will. With today’s simp economy especially.
Orbiters can actually be a good thing. (1) They can make you look good assuming you are her alpha. If she is surrounded by 5 orbiters and you (the alpha), you look really good as being top dog. (2) They take some of the comfort requirements off your shoulders. For example, if the two of you have a fight, they will become her emotional tampons lol. Remember, a king doesn’t get mad over every thirsty peasant jealous of his hot wife.
Of course this orbiter stuff has limits (which you can decide the limits on). For example, a bad situation would be if she is staying the night at an orbiter’s place.
robert87 3d ago
Alright here was the problem in my thinking. The orbiter attention - is this a normal thing that happens with all hot women? Is it inevitable? Then I puzzled over whether it would be worse to let it continue or worse to show insecurity by addressing it directly. Whether this is a boundary I communicate, or a situation where I draw back quietly, or a non-issue that I ignore.
By beta orbiters what I mean mainly are friends since high school who obviously want her but have never tried making a move. Some of them share a social circle with me too. Guys through text try to convince her not to be with me, tell her I’m disgusting and a loser and below her. She shows me these and does defend me. I wonder over whether it's better to address how it seems not right to talk to these guys at all. Or whether I should act like it doesn’t bother me to display high value/show I am not threatened.
I have been right there while men approach right in front of me as if they assume I must be a family member or something platonic, as if they would think she is not there with me as a boyfriend (I am a one-eyed man with two-thirds of my face badly scarred). She responded to these situations with PDA and also does PDA in general when we are out together now. In fact I now think there's something thrilling for her in being seen with me especially by other men who like her. I can see it in how she leans into me and shows PDA more when people look and how her face looks happy and mischevious when they seem shocked. And text convos where she flaunts it, similar to this as an example:
Guy: You're not really with Robert? Her: Yes, I am INDEED with Robert. (+ bunch of emojis of hearts, kisses, and smiley faces). Guy: Not really? You're joking? You don't really kiss and fuck and everything? Her: Yes I do kiss and fuck Robert ALL THE TIME (+ bunch of emojis of hearts, kisses, and smiley faces).
With the snooping - I do not want to break up but the idea is that I have to enforce boundaries or all the respect will leave and the relationship will then eventually end - and not on my terms. That is the idea right? My girlfriend's father cheated on her mother and she’s naturally distrustful of men. I wonder if she got with an ugly virgin like me on purpose because she thinks I couldn’t/wouldn’t cheat. Although that's true the attraction will go away if I am baited into the constant beta reassurance loop. What I said so far is that there must be trust if our relationship is going to work and that I’m not going to repeat over and over again what I already told her once (that I would not betray a person who is good to me). What I will have to say next is that the snooping must stop and that if she cannot trust me then this is not going to work out between us. Am I thinking right?
Anyways she is only 19 and a really nice girl. bright and cheerful, very beautiful, happy personality. I am still working on developing a positive view of myself but I approached and was rejected by a hundred women (HB4,5,6) before I decided to just go for HB8 in my social circle and felt lucky and shocked that she didn't stop me and actually let me fuck her.
Most women literally recoil at me because I look scary but my girlfriend is really into reading these dark romantic novels. So she sees me as "you are so cool, you look like you've been through war and survived it, your face makes you look so strong." Nobody else has said anything like that about me. It must be only a very niche subset of women that could find me attractive and of those, most of them are likely not as hot or nice as the girl I have right now. I'm still working on internalizing the positive psychology and for now trying to hobble along as best I can in the meantime, still feeling something like an imposter just fronting alpha confidence.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
It's normal, but optional. She doesn't HAVE to let them give her attention. That's a woman fail in my book. I expect girlfriends not to have that in our lives. My former girlfriend did not let men do that while with me. I don't tolerate it.
Oh they've made a move. It just didn't work and their move, even if subtle or indirect, was still an attempt. Again, at least one of these orbiters or a future orbiter is going to possibly end up being a viable backup if you have a bad fight, etc.
Orbiters are traitors to men who fuck. Again, I don't like them for a reason, I don't care if they are ineffective, I don't want that energy in my life or relationship.
Clearly she doesn't care. Women are more forgiving of scars than men.
If you do not have boundaries with women any outcome you would have inevitably have had with them will accelerate to an end. You need boundaries.
That's not okay. Put a password on your phone and if she wants to know something you talk about it on your terms. End of story.
Read this post
I'm truly sorry that happened to you in your life but need I say more? Maybe one day you can save for cosmetic surgery but for now it's clear you can get women. You might need to come across as friendlier or so to compensate but you get results. So run with your ability to get results.
If you can succeed once, you can succeed again.
You're not. Take this one step at a time. Boundaries. You need boundaries. No shit left at your house, no more snooping. She has to ask for info and if it's reasonable she can get it.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
I'm not saying you should dump her over orbiters, I'm saying I personally have no tolerance for it and it's a selection criteria for me ever getting into another relationship again
robert87 3d ago
That post you linked is so true. Mid girls really are bitches compared to hot girls. Many of them that rejected me treated me like I wasn't even human. I guess they did me a favour because I don't think they'd be any fun to be around. Nah don't think I'll go for plastic surgery. Saved up for it funnily enough but once I got my hands on enough money to do it I couldn't bear to part with it. I considered it for a long time, but another guy I know of who spent a huge amount on reconstructive surgery has this uncanny valley vibe and still doesn't look normal. The way I am now its obvious that I had an accident, I wasn't born like this, the unharmed side of my face still looks normal. My new girl likes me how I am, sees my ugly face more like a cool sign of how I faced death and survived and is excited to be with me. If it doesn't work out with her I might be able to find other women who have this similar niche romantic taste.
Thinking of going with something like this:
"I like you a lot and I want this to work. But I’m not going to live in a relationship where I’m treated like I’m guilty. If you want to be with me you stop the snooping thing. If you can’t trust me we shouldn’t be together."
or
"Don’t go through my things again. If you can’t trust me we shouldn’t be together."
I don't know if I should bring up the orbiter thing or wait until she shows me another text from one of them talking badly about me.
Would not the higher status reaction be to be entertained, not angry?
To laugh, and say something along the lines of "Tell him to cry harder."
I think I've read somewhere that it seems insecure to tell a woman to cut them off.
What about something like this:
"I’m not worried about those guys. But I’m also not going to seriously date a woman who keeps male ‘friends’ around who disrespect her man."
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
Okay cool. Glad you are resilient about it
no, too wordy and negotiative. Don't
"I gave it thought and I don't want you to go through my belongings or my phone any more. If you need to know something we can go from there"
If she protests:
"I've been transparent this entire time, these are my boundaries."
I don't think she's causing you enough problems with it to bother and you didn't seem that bothered by it, so disregard my own personal standards. I don't think you are at the experience level to navigate that with the right frame at this time so just let it be for now.
no. Indifference is often the best reaction unless a woman necessitates a reaction. This doesn't deserve much of one, unless there's more she's doing with him than just letting him be an angry orbiter getting nothing out of it.
Focus on your boundaries instead, including:
**"I can't have you leaving all this stuff at my house like this. A few toiletries max."
If she protests,
"This is my space, I don't want all of this stuff here, it is too much"
you don't need too explain why. It's plain excessive item dumping in your space.
It is, that's why I won't settle for women who really even have them at all. But that's just me and they do exist.
no, just leave it for now. You have other boundaries to enforce. Obviously don't turn your back to the orbiters. If something in your gut ends up feeling wrong about any of them, don't ignore it. Disregard my own standards for now, that takes more nuance to navigate
robert87 3d ago
Alright we talked today about the snooping and leaving so much of her stuff here. She snuggled into me and said "Why are you being so mean?"
She has a strong frame and is used to getting everything she wants I think, and dominating situations but in a smooth and covert way while being very sweet all the time. She kept looking at me very sadly and explaining how this or that thing is absolutely needed every time she takes a shower, her entire life will be uprooted without continuous access to this serum, I said you can keep some here but not all, it's too much. Sometimes I thought she was ridiculous and laughed, other times I genuinely felt like I'm being too mean, she did pack in her bag and bring home ~80% of it.
She said that I shouldn't mind her looking in my phone if I'm not trying to cheat and protested that it's only fair since I have open access to her phone too whenever I want. I said I've been transparent and these are my boundaries, she snuggled into me and asked me why I'm being so mean, telling me all the reasons I should let her, how not being able to look will make her feel worried, how I'm making her sad, caressing me, putting herself close to me, showing off her cleavage, she even said "why won't you just let me do what I want?" She stayed very sweet and smooth the whole time but she pushed a lot for getting her own way. The conversation ended "I'll try to stop doing it but you are being very mean." It wasn't an argument and I didn't respond very much to all the protests. Honestly I did feel mean. When she is touching me and close to me it's hard to think straight. She acts feminine and cute turning up charm and sweetness. My brain goes to this place of disbelief in having such a hot girl to myself and worrying about not ruining it. She also said "please don't cheat on me, I want us to have a special relationship."
The snooping and leaving stuff in my house doesn't bother me really I'm only setting a boundary about something for the sake of it. If I don't she'll think I have no spine and end things eventually, that's the idea, right?
The beta orbiter stuff bothers me more than those things because it's more of a threat to me but I have left it alone for now. Haven't decided yet how best to go about it. Have never seen her flirt with them but I think she likes the drama of how they don't like me and likes the feeling she gets from defending me. I think she likes it that they like her, that they can't have her, and likes rubbing their noses in it. It enrages me more towards the men seeing how they talk about me as though I'm less than a person. They don't even try to make moves on her but position themselves as her 'friends' who are trying to warn her and watch out for her. She does not hang out with any of them one on one but they are all part of her social network so she does see them in groups/mixed company and I sometimes see them in the same situations, where she does seem to do PDA with me in front of them enjoying making them uncomfortable. I think she is used to seeing orbiters as a regular part of life. She blatantly disrespects them in small ways and I think enjoys it as a dominance flex.
Thanks everyone for sharing your advice and perspectives on my situation. Great bunch of lads.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2d ago
And she should get rid of more of it. Trial size travel tubes of anything that isn't a shampoo or body wash
"If you want to see something, you can ask me and we can talk about it. I expect the same from you"
This is a horrendous attitude. It's your shit, she shouldn't be dominating it. That's not just for the sake of it, you cannot let women just claim your shit as their own space and crap to pillage through
those are their moves. Stop being naive
and it's disgusting. I'm not in a position to give you advice on this, I think you still need to get your frame and boundaries in order before you do a more advanced action step like setting clear boundaries with orbiters
this is why if I ever get into a relationship again, the woman needs to already come factory ready with no social media or nuke it for me immediately upon request with no apprehensions
I don't do orbiters. I have very high expectations with committed relationships. I don't care how else they treat me
no problem man
robert87 1d ago
I hate orbiters too. Have just been unsure as to the best way to go about it. I am for now keeping a close eye on it and not acting quite yet, as your suggestion. Such a slimy way for a man to act, trying to undercut a man who is fucking the girl you fancy. Pretending you're her friend and looking out for her so you have plausible deniability. Who lusts hard after a girl who is already fucking someone else anyways? Talking shit about a man behind his back, like a gossipy woman? Calling me a pervert because a man with ugly looks is supposed to be asexual with no rights to love? Faking being worried about a 19 year old dating a 22 year old as if she's an innocent baby and I'm an old predator? If I'm so disgusting, what are you if you still want her after I've fucked her, anyways?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1d ago
When you are a beta with no game this is the only game you know. Hard to hate them if you understand how pathetic they are
Beta game. Need I repeat myself?
the sooner you stop caring about men with shit game the better
mattyanon Admin 3d ago
Be brutally honest with yourself: are these admirers, or is she encouraging this by flirting and allowing it to happen?
unacceptable
You are failing to set boundaries
Set boundaries
She is marking her territory and starting to move in with you, pushing your boundaries
yes
yes
if you can get one girl you can get another girl.
You are using perceived relative SMV difference to justify being weak.
not all
scary is attractive
Yeah, you are putting her on a pedestal and she is beta-izing you.
First-light 2 3d ago
Its great to hear you have got the girl and things have progressed well. Well done.
Women leaving a ton of shit in your house is a good sign for the relationship -she thinks of your space as her space. We say only half jokingly that a woman says "what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine too" i.e. she will think of her stuff as her private stuff and your stuff as stuff she has full access rights to.
You may need to set some gentle boundaries. A bit of sensible, gentle and obvious counter snooping is probably better than a strict snooping ban -because you never know if you get paranoid about an orbiter, you might even want to snoop a bit in return. If she has has already invited it by her behaviour so much the better. If she asks why? you say "I was curious like you were when you snooped in X and Y ways". In the end you will get into each other's personal spaces a bit as you become closer. Its Ok, it just needs to happen gently, proportionately.
I would stress the gentle bit. Women remember hard rulings. Gently suggest if you feel your boundaries are a bit pushed. It is better to try to elicit empathy on domestic space usage and privacy than to issue hard rules because sooner or later the rules don't fit the situation but they are still rules and flash points that then need re negotiation. Its when guys sperg out on boundaries that then things get toxic as there become red lines that must not get crossed, yet life seems to occasionally make one cross them.
This brings me to the trickier question of the orbiters. Here you may need some firm ruling but still try not to make it a red line that triggers instant meltdown if crossed because life will throw a guy across it at some point and then you want to be able to talk about it not have a meltdown about it.
She has chosen you not the orbiters. This should be remembered but I expect there is a doubt at the back of your mind that perhaps she has chosen you because you are a safe bet in a world of men who might quit more easily. Maybe she still likes the orbiters. We all like having orbiters of the opposite sex and we do have to set boundaries for them or our lives get fucked up. I would tell her when an orbiter makes you feel uncomfortable. Don't make it a flash point so much as an information point to start. "That guy trying to rub your shoulders/ drive you to the shops/ invite you for a drink made me a bit uncomfortable. Really that is not what he would do for another guy. I think he likes you and he is going to feel you are happy with that if you accept his offer and that will make me uncomfortable" Give a rational woman enough information and she see that she needs to set sensible boundaries.
Its only if you find that she knows you don't like the orbiters and yet she does not care enough to change her behaviour, that then you have to have a more serious conversation and say what you will not accept in your relationship. This can be necessary for some hot women. They are just used to seeing orbiters as part of life. It starts very early. I have two hot daughters and some normal ones. The hot ones got given an umbrella to share by the school bus driver when it was raining. No one else got to borrow his umbrella. What does this tell a hot young woman? -expect orbiters, they are your right. A man may have to deal with this but the girl may be sensible enough to deal with it herself and if the behaviour is not too unacceptable, I would start with giving information.
In response to your own answer to the question, at some point you go from having a girl to being in a relationship and then you do need to focus on the girl, while continuing to have your own value. This value does not only need to be asserted in possessing options to pussy. So long as you are not her private simp and you have friends and interests, you are showing that you have independent value and see her in perspective as a very important part of your life but not its sole purpose.