Picture for reference: https://i.imgur.com/PZd2IG9.png
Whether or not women are truly happy to spend most of their fertile years pursuing even more years of "education" is one thing. We can also debate whether or not the time and money invested has any real benefits. While I argue that the outcomes are not worth the costs for the vast majority of these women, there is a glaring issue with women like this. That being her desire to be seen in the equivalent light of a mother.
Mothers are indeed important, as they are necessary for the continuation of our species. So when you see a picture of a mother with her baby, the general reaction will be one of warmth and happiness. This same feeling is not one bit replicated when a woman takes the same type of picture with a stack of papers instead of a baby. This is just an absurd attempt to try and claim that a woman getting a degree should be praised the same as a mother.
These days it certainly does not take much to become a mother, as any woman can do that by sleeping with a guy and getting knocked up. The picture being replicated here though is meant to be the archetype of the mother who took the effort to meet a man worth marrying and being a good father. The point is that mothers are at their best when they do things right by first marrying the man and then having children with him (as fathers are still essential to society), and this picture is trying to equivocate that same essence but with a stack of papers. I bring up the implication of the father being completely in the picture as a husband because in order for a woman to do that, she has to put in a lot of effort to get that sort of man. That effort is something so many women are either incapable of or unwilling to do.
Perhaps this woman put some effort into those papers, but that will not inspire the same joy that a picture of a mother holding her baby will. It probably does bother her that she does not get the same adoration a mother would receive, as she believes that her choices should also be validated all the same. The problem is that whether or not she believes it or makes any effort towards it, her body is meant to bear children (not the same thing as being guaranteed to have them). We all inherently recognize this reality, but she has been told that this role is something that is not all that important, as she can just do it later or ignore it altogether. She may think she can ignore those desires, but her body and instincts are telling her that she should be having babies. Instead she insists that this will make her just as happy, and that she should be just as highly regarded as a mother would be.
You cannot fight against nature and expect that there will not be natural consequences in return. Women who think they can delay or entirely forego having a family if their own may think that everything will be blissful in the end, but they better be darn sure that they are not going to regret not placing emphasis on finding a man to marry and have children, because if they are wrong about that assumption, they are going to find that the second half of their lives are going to be lonely and unhappy.

Snoo33176 5y ago
This is a HUGE problem for lady doctors. Med school + internship + residency = 7 - 14 years of near constant, day and night work, about the only way to have a child is to be rich and have a full time nanny, and by the time they finish training the ladies are in their 30s.
herbw 5y ago
Yes have seen many women helping their husbands get an education, and then a job, and helping him keep it. & without that critical help, the men would be nothing.....
[deleted] 5y ago
Most PhDs are bullshit.
When someone tells me they have a PhD the first thing I think about is what is it in, then I think about, ok that's worthless, now what have you accomplished?
A PhD is basically a high school diploma.
herbw 5y ago
Well, delusional beliefs are in fact the case, & this silly claim & absurd assertion is one of many such around.
Go ahead, continue to ignore the high educational levels of those with PhD have, and then you die.
It's that huge a delusion on your part.
[deleted] 5y ago
I hope what you've accomplished in your life brings you great fortunes and a prosperous life.
herbw 5y ago
Money is not happiness, and usually gets in the way. I have a good family and so I have many good benefits that money can't buy.
Financially comfy too. But I give lots of food, and help to my family and of course, it works out best for all.
Given all the drugs, crime, deaths and diseases of all sorts going about,. We have NONE Of that in our family.
A felon seriously injured me earlier this year, but he was hit by a car, eventually, & as he does drugs, his future and happiness are nil.
Mine is unlimited. I have wonderful family all richly embroidered with Xtian love and outcomes.
I wish that same for you.
Happy New Year!!!
[deleted] 5y ago
Family's health is most important.
Happy new year.
[deleted] 5y ago
Not every woman wants to be a mother, and that is perfectly okay.
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DeeplyDisturbed1 5y ago
So many of women's complaint come at the hands of other women
All men want one thing....Men are pigs... men are dogs. THEN: Play the field, bang all the guys you can in college. THEN: WAATGM
Get a job...get a career...have a backup plan. THEN: Get a family, your time is now. Don't wait too long. THEN: Why are societal expectations so high for women!
What you never hear is:
Young women. We were wrong. Men are not evil and feminism is poison. We are sorry. Signed, wiser older women.
Men die for us in the millions each year defending us. They die in industrial accidents so that we can have a good life and they can make a decent living for their children. Maybe we should respect them.
yeah.
[deleted] 5y ago
Heck yes, sir!
BigBoiBahmani 5y ago
Here is one of quick piece on women mindset :
Listen bud, "Never appeal to a woman's logic". Women right now are very feral because society has let them be. And men right now are not men because society has forced them to not be. Realize that society as a whole is completely feminised and male traits are demonized. This in itself is a shit test but that is a topic for later. Therefore, understand that the society is female minded. Gynocentric. Female brained.
One important thing to understand is that women are very limbic. Very instinctual in their decision making. As Rollo says, a woman's mind processes events and decisions by the route of instinct -> emotion -> reason; whereas men process them by the route of instinct -> reason -> emotion. This is very true.
Therefore, women don't use logic as a natural framework after instinct. They use what "feels right, right now". And what feels right is the thing that aligns to her innate solipsism. And that too not in the long term. What aligns to her solipsism right now. AF/BB is a solid example of that.
Taking all of this into consideration, remember one thing. Don't try to process things they say by using logic. You will only frustrate yourself. Understand that society as a whole is a bunch of women standing up for women using whatever workarounds that they have to use to benefit themselves (or women as a group) directly or indirectly. The arguments can be logical or illogical, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as long as it is effective. And it is effective. Understand this and things will make much more sense. Although, they look illogical on the outside. Listen to the episode of "Never appeal to a woman's logic" on Rollo Tomassi's Youtube channel.
You may say it doesn't make sense. She'll call it harassment. And she will be effective. You won't be.
[deleted] 5y ago
wow create insight, thanks for sharing
tosernameschescksout 5y ago
Feminism has always been VERY anti man, anti family, and thus anti-motherhood.
They deny it, but it's there and all interconnected.
The result is that there's no credit or value to being a mom. It's definitely seen as something to delay. What feminism didn't get right is that no matter how much your brainwash a woman, she's still going to have that instinct.
We see women at war with their own biology. Hate wins out long enough to become leftover women, then they have the regret.
It's sad, but I think stuff like this will pass. It won't be vogue forever. Sooner or later, truth and nature always win.
jihocech 5y ago
You can also say anti-human, anti-nature, anti-life and anti-God. An ideology of pure destruction.
ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
This is really, awfully sad. Women like this think that “society” pressures them to become mothers, and that they are stronger for not giving into outside pressures. In reality, the desire to become a mother is inherent in most women. She is simply attempting to replace what she really wants (a baby) with personal accomplishments. But she will never feel true fulfillment from these pursuits. Her cognitive dissonance is on full display in this photo. And everyone can see it but her.
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ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
Cool. If she wanted a degree, get one.
But I’ve never seen a man swaddle his dissertation..
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ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
?? I don’t see the funny..
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ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
You know, the more you explain it, the funnier it gets...
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ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
Absolutely true. Unfortunately, most women are blind to the real forces that control them.
PlainTundra 5y ago
Every time the blame "society" for something, biology is actually the one to blame.
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BigBoiBahmani 5y ago
Cope More, Senior executive of the Cope Department.
ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
There’s one problem with your analysis: this women has the degree, but she’s not a mother..
moorekom Mod 5y ago
Don't get drawn into debates, especially ones where the other person assume a position of superiority. Next time, hit the report button.
ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
Eh, I enjoy it.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
This is not a debate sub.
ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
Fine. I won’t tell you how to moderate.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
Thank you. That is nice of you.
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BigBoiBahmani 5y ago
She is holding a stack of papers as a baby. Any mother with a successful family will rebuke her. So do we. You are either a women, or you're a very, very pathetic man. And very delusional. You are the people who make this Earth a very amusing and entertaining place. We love you.
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BigBoiBahmani 5y ago
Aren't you a cute little one. One of the best and worst things about being a woman I observe are that no one will ever give you honest criticism. And you have the fascinating ability to accept what you get in life as what you wanted to happen.
So how about this little one, you go away and never come back. We don't like working women. We don't want working women. Why do you care? No one here wants to marry you. And I assure you that everyone here is done with dealing with nagging.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
She is not our problem. Hit the report button.
ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
No, but she’s certainly past her prime fertile years. And apparently mentally ill, since she thinks a stack of papers is her child..
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ANIKAHirsch 5y ago
Of course women can do what they want. But I think it’s pretty obvious that this woman wants a family, and doesn’t know how to get it. Men don’t marry for money the way women do. Education won’t make a woman a better wife, if she’s not also dedicated to serving her husband.
jihocech 5y ago
Education can help meet good men at the college.
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[deleted] 5y ago
Not really. My aunt wanted to go for Engineering, but she did not get a seat, so she went for BS Mathematics, and then did her Master's in Computer Management. She is now a successful IT Professional, and I don't think she ever wanted to start her own family. And neither is she resentful towards her friends who married, as they are leading somewhat mundane lives as SAHMs. She's more like a guy mistakenly born as a girl, or in other words an outlier. Though I don't know much about other women.
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[deleted] 5y ago
I'm an Engineering student as well. And I understand the concept, just that I don't know what the situation is out there as I've only dealt with outliers in my life. Maybe most of the women are talentless, but my only point is that we should not keep a bias, at least in the professional settings. Other than that, I completely agree that the women who make mistakes will pay for it later on by becoming single moms and cat ladies. But I also believe that the women who are successful professionally can feel as satisfied as those who are housewives, it's just a matter of individual choice.
Ferret_Queen 5y ago
I can't wait to be seen as undesirable to have kids with! I don't want crotch goblins anyway lol.
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MrNeurotypical 5y ago
I'm going to highly disagree because I have a Master's in Education and I believe that higher education makes society a better place, no matter whether it's put into practice or not. Nobody cares about basket-weaving until it answers a fundamental question which moves society forward. Even in the absence of revolutionary contributions, it takes society up as a whole.
If my wife has a PhD in child-rearing it's useless in the job market but society benefits by having kids being reared better. If she writes a book then other women can read it and become better at rearing. It's progress. If my wife has a degree in basket weaving she can teach kids the art in school and then they know that. Is it useful in making ends meet? no. Is it useful to a budding young artist who goes on to be the Mozart of of basket weaving? Yes.
Additionally, there are not a limited number of seats in university. In state unis they adapt to the number of qualified applicants. I actually had my uni run courses that only had 4 students because we enrolled in a specific major(pure physics) which included classes which would have been dropped otherwise. I was also in classes that had 75 people initially and bounced down to 20 after a few weeks. They just adapted to the students and their needs and it wasn't based on numbers.
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MrNeurotypical 5y ago
Let's set aside credentials and degree mills, for the sake of discussing the benefits of actual education. Let's further admit that economics does not account for social costs. Social costs include things like paying for unemployment when a factory shuts down, treating people whose health was damaged by pollution, gov't assistance to people affected by wealth inequality, etc.
When a woman who is capable of going to university does that, it's usually at age 18 and lasts until age 22. This is the age at which a woman has the most high quality eggs, therefore nothing is lost in terms of fertility. In the case of an exceptional woman who qualifies for graduate school an additional 2-4 years of university can push them past their prime but not by too much that it is a problem and in return society has more doctors, professors, psychiatrists, etc.
Now let's look at what society gets in return for the majority of qualified women getting 4 years of university. I went to a liberal arts and science college(oddly physics is a liberal art/science) that was public. Every student has to take a core curriculum which includes one class from each of the departments(psychiatry, art/music, language, humanities, philosophy, science, and sociology). Then you also take courses in your major.
My professors told me that you don't go to college to get a degree and they are correct. You go there to become a better, more well-rounded person. I rolled my eyes when I was told I had to take a diversity course and the choices were history of women and history of race/ethnicity. I chose race/ethnicity and learned a lot about my own race/ethnicity(white/Scottish immigrants) as well as ones you never hear about where I grew up(Chinese railroad immigrants, Irish immigrants, etc). The point is I learned a lot of things that make me a better person and now society has more people who are better. I go on to teach my children, neighbors, friends, etc. Society grows as a whole. Hell, I even know a lot about existentialism because I went to college for physics.
Finally, when you compare now to past times in this context of allocating female human capital, you must include the mortality rate for children and average life expectancy. Blood transfusions, vaccines, and antibiotics have radically altered child mortality and life expectancy. This means we need to have a lot less children than our great grandparents did to get the same outcomes. In fact, we need to have minimal amounts of children and maximize their potential via physical and mental methods. We need the best and brightest parents and teachers raising our kids.
I mean, we obviously aren't doing that en masse and instead are having the dumbest and least qualified parents having maximum amounts of babies while the best and brightest are bred out of existence. Yay!
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MrNeurotypical 5y ago
You may have a point but I doubt your average high school grad can teach themselves university level courses or even know they exist(ever heard of quantum mechanics part 2?). I was a physics major and didn't even know until I had to take it. Or stuff like diversity classes, existentialism. Egads when I first went to community college I had to sit down with a counselor just to figure out what classes to take to get to where I wanted to be.
I purposely excluded degree mills and credentialism. I'm talking about education. A person with an MA in Sociology can easily find work as a social worker, unless they didn't learn anything, then they work at starbucks.
We have a capitalist society that incentivizes people in all kinds of wrong ways. If we were rational we would tell young people that we have a shortage of endocrinologists, electricians, foremen, etc. Invest in their education to produce more of what we need. If we don't need more museum curators, we won't train millions of people in MA Arts. Stuff like that. The fundamentals are solid but the implementation is highly flawed.
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MrNeurotypical 5y ago
Well that's mostly true. Universities have made tuition cost the same as the maximum amount of loans a student can get. I had the rug pulled out from under me while going through my degree. 200% increases? Based on what?
Capitalism has always had certain flaws. Namely: boom/bust cycles and inequality. Ever since it became the predominant system, the government has had to intervene to fix it. We've had pretty pure capitalism and free markets before. Back in the time when Oliver Twist was depicted. Orphans were sold into apprenticeships with an undertaker. Inequality was insane. There's a reason why the New Deal came about and it wasn't generosity. It was the abyssmal conditions created by capitalism that led the people to threaten to replace it with communism. The rich were so scared they gave them money for old people(social security), money for sick people(medicare), money for poor people(welfare), and 12 million jobs(federal jobs program). Additionally, they accepted a top tax rate of 90%.
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MrNeurotypical 5y ago
The point I was trying to make is that it incentivizes people to do what's profitable, even if it's not in their best interest.
Even famous economists don't agree on the cause of the depression. Everyone agrees it wasn't rational. We learned that monetary policy by the fed can prevent the huge deflation and going off the gold standard assured we didn't run out of money. Where we're screwing up now is not doing the massive investment in infrastructure and jobs that it took to get out of the last depression. We're just letting people completely disengage from the economy by being unemployed.
Another capitalism created crisis is our unpreparedness for a pandemic. It turns out it's not profitable to have big warehouses full of masks, gloves, respirators, etc so nobody did it. We've had many pandemics too. Spanish flu, SARS, MRSA, Ebola, etc.
[deleted] 5y ago
In reference to the linked photo: What is this abject mental illness??
Savagetiddies 5y ago
First of all this picture is probably a joke. In no way is this woman indicating her desire to never pursue motherhood or marriage. I don't see why it's so wrong wanting to have both, education and a family. My mom has a masters, 2 children and a happy marriage, getting a degree before popping out kids was the best decision she could have made at the time.
herbw 5y ago
Exactly. We see this all the time and are richer for it, too.
The Either/or, in no matter what form it takes, are the FALSE Dichotomies, very bad fallacies and a bad way of processing info.
IOW, when we see that, ignore it. The outputs of those brains are fundamentally flawed.
houseoftolstoy Mod 5y ago
Jokes still have a basis in reality, or at there is an attempt to base it on that. I know that she does not see her dissertation as her literal baby, but I do know she wants recognition for her accomplishment. It is no accident that she had the picture like this, as this the exact type of photo mothers have with their babies. It was intentionally set up that way to provoke the sentiment that her accomplishment is just as significant as being a mother, even if done jokingly.
I would not doubt that this woman and others like her have it in their minds that they are being pushed into motherhood. In a way they are right, but it is not solely a social construct, but heavily biological. This picture can be seen as a snub against those attitudes. But it is not attitudes alone that drive desires, but biology as well. It is the same biological drive that causes people to uphold motherhood as a good thing while paying far less attention to the type of woman who chooses this path. This photo tries to get the attention of society with a deliberate comparison, but it will not change what biology drives us to do.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
First of all, let me apologize for digging through your account to disprove your point. That said, this is the same mom you complained in an earlier thread killed your self-confidence? I am not sure she is such a stellar example. The problem with wanting to have it all is that you can't and you usually end up giving up something valuable for something that is worth less.
Savagetiddies 5y ago
No trouble, I'm honest about my upbringing. Yes my mother is big time asshole when it comes to me but I can be nothing but greatful for her being able to provide a stable life even after my dad died and we lived in a foreign country. I will always see her as an example of being able to have it all.
I'm also speaking from my 1st world privilege so I'm aware that those kind of life choices don't apply to everyone.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
I appreciate you handling this maturely and gracefully. While it is a good thing she was educated and as a result, was able to provide a stable life, I would not say that your mother was able to have it all if your father died. I understand that in your eyes she is, but that would not be the metric most people around the world would measure her with. Out of personal curiosity, did she remarry and find marital happiness again? You do not have to answer if you do not want to.
PS: Nothing wrong with first world privileges if you can recognize your pros and cons and be humble about all of them.
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houseoftolstoy Mod 5y ago
I am not sure what circles you were frequenting, but I would expect the kind of man that would reject a woman for not having a Master's degree would be quite rare and the exception. Also, those men do not appear to be marriage minded, as you stated that you wanting marriage and kids was also a dealbreaker. So my point stands that most men who are seeking a wife and children are not going to be putting a Master's degree as a requirement.
retal1ator 5y ago
These men simply don't want to support a family and kids. I understand them because I feel the same, even though ideally I would find it the most efficient way to raise kids right.
Time have changed. We aren't in the 50s anymore where women can pretend to be good housewives and in return let men do all the work. Feminism and newer family law have completely destroyed any trust that men had in a traditional family.
It will take a lot of work to undo the damage feminism has done.
MrNeurotypical 5y ago
I've never heard of that(master's degree) but I have heard of guys being scared of marriage/kids. Men go through a very rough stage in their 20's where they are starving college students and entry level workers barely making ends meet. This goes on until late 20's usually. It can be devastating to take on a wife and kids when you're a starving college student. It can also be life changing to have a supportive woman at your back that is willing to wait a while until you get on your feet before having kids and all that.
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moorekom Mod 5y ago
People lie.
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jihocech 5y ago
Women gossip all the time. Few decades ago you would be an old mother. And people are envious and herd animals also.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
Who did this handwringing?
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moorekom Mod 5y ago
Nice side stepping there.
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moorekom Mod 5y ago
Yes, you do. You understand it enough to edit the comment three times (that I've noticed).