TL;DR- I compare some dating sites and hopefully get you laid some more by telling you to do less.
“The Red Piller’s Guide to Online Dating": Browsing, Tinder and Supermarkets of Men
There’s a fairly easy method of improving your odds of having an LSSW likely to meet up with you. I like to call it the “window shopping method”.
The process is simple. Instead of initiating with all of the women you’d enjoy sleeping with, just open their bio so they see you’ve viewed their profile and move on. If they view your profile in response, you know that you’ve piqued their interest.
But why does this work?
First let's discuss the unavoidable investment.
The Unavoidable Investment
Note: Yeah, yeah, I know, reeal "witty" title, LaLa. Screw you, I'm out of coffee.
The last article focused primarily on how over-investment works between two people in that, as I’ll quote again:
“In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.”
By initiating without any form of IOI, while it can be seen as a dominant frame in-person, online it can easily be misconstrued among the other “approaches” from the dozens of other beta men messaging her, some of which might even be succinctly initiating just like the Alpha (“hey” or “hi”).
If this is the case, it could prove to be an uphill battle to get her to see how genuine your under-investment is especially considering the catch-22 we mentioned in the last post (the more you try to prove your SMV, the more invested you become in her opinion). It’s always a step into her frame.
The very act of initiating online, no matter how succinct or under-invested you make it, is an investment into her moreso than she in you (she didn’t reach out because such an act would be overt and women primarily communicate covertly). Remember, online we can only deal in the perceptions garnered by our texts, messages, pictures and bios as that’s all she has to base her judgements on our SMV off of.
There are two ways at which you could reduce this deficit of initial investment between the two of you. You can,
a) not open with high levels of investment i.e. “hey baby, what’re you up to?” which would only serve to increase the already-unavoidable gap in initial investment
b) garner some IOI to close the deficit gap a bit, should you try window shopping.
c) offset yourself from the other men by not messaging her as soon as you see her profile, which is also achieved by window shopping.
More on option C, think about it from an LSSW’s perspective: an attractive woman who is overly-accustomed to receiving a combination of profile views then initial messages from a wide variety of men checks her profile and sees that some hunky Alpha dude looked at her profile once then moved on (yes, girl think about shit like this). It bothers her. “Why didn’t he message me like the others? He saw how attractive I am.”
She’ll then visit his profile and her hamster will spin up some convoluted plot as to why you brushed over her. Then, a few hours later, she gets a message from the Alpha and she’s equally as invested. He made himself relevant by not doing anything (the best kind of relevance).
That explanation was a bit dramatic, sure. And it won’t play out that way every time (some will completely miss it/skip over it) but the ones that responded to me looking at them by looking back at me (in some cases they’ll even overtly reach out and initiate) have been some of the fastest/easiest escalations I’ve experienced with LSSWs.
Note: A long explanation for a simple method, surely. I feel that it’s important for us to understand why and how these interactions work so that with time we can tweak these inner-workings to suit each of our personalities. It’s like figuring out why a computer turns on when you press the power button. Pressing the button’s easy, but learning how it works provides insight which births innovation.
Implementation
How to window browse in practice is really easy:
1) Take a few minutes a view all of the profiles of women you’d sleep with. Nothing more.
2) Check back later to see if any have viewed you back.
3) If they have, bake for a short amount of time (depending on their SMV, longer for more attractive).
4) Initiate.
Note: That’s all there is to it. As simple as the implementation is, even if you don’t agree with me, at least give it a go. I’ll normally switch between this method and my method from the original “RP Dating Guide”, but it’s up to you.
Now let’s get more analytical. I’d like to go back to a previous comment I’d made regarding a “step into her frame” on dating sites and use that as a means to address how this varies between different sites (buckle up kids).
The “Free Markets” (Plenty of Fish, Badoo, OK Cupid, LOVOO, Skout, Jaumo, Hot or Not)
This free market “step into frame” on dating sites like POF, OKC and Badoo is usually abhorred by LSSWs as it gives men they’d perceive below their below their Beta Ladders endless opportunities to attempt to “convince” them of their SMV, thus flooding their inboxes.
LSSWs only respond to men they would either place on their Beta Ladder or Alpha Ladder, so all of the extra spam is seen as unnecessary and annoying, especially for the more attractive LSSWs. Not only do women not like reaffirmations from low-SMV men, they resent it and the men giving it.
For them, a low-SMV man that considers her attainable enough to reach out to her causes a negative reaffirmation (introspection) on how attractive she really is, which is counter to the feel-good stimuli she generally expects from dating sites. Matches, likes, favorites and communications with betas (as faceless validation sources or potential provisions) and Alphas (for FWB, ONS and NSA) is all women want from dating sites.
This is ultimately why sites like Tinder, CAB and Bumble are so popular amongst attractive LSSWs; on “free market” dating sites, their inboxes become so flooded that it’s difficult to filter out the Alphas from the betas, etc. etc.
The “Supermarkets” (Tinder, Bumble, Coffee or Bagel, Happn)
On Tinder, her inbox is directly controlled by her; only the men she deems “worthy” can even begin to speak with her, and only after she “swipes right”. To her, it’s like online shopping. She swipes right for guys she thinks she could use for either sex or validation based upon their profile pictures (people rarely look at the bio on Tinder) and swipes left for the guys she perceives couldn’t meet her standards.
Because of this, on sites like Tinder, physique is much more than a prerequisite to attraction. It’ll determine how you’ll begin each and every LSSW interaction. It’ll determine whether or not your battle will be uphill and how steep the slope. It’ll determine which ladder she leans towards for you before you even initiate.
Bumble is worse on terms of giving the LSSW control of the interaction.
On Bumble, even after you’ve both "swiped right" ala Tinder, the woman must make the first move and initiate within 24 hours in order for a conversation to begin. This is counter to the very nature of women's preferred method of communication i.e. covert communication.
Initiating an interaction is very overt, which means there's a strong likelihood that an LSSW matched with and one who openly initiates on Bumble will be dominant by nature (and thus akin to more overt methods of communication). What's more, by having to wait on said initiation the man must begin the interaction men even deeper into the LSSW’s frame than normal.
It's the purest version of online validation. The LSSWs get all of the likes and matches and reaffirmations of their SMV they would get on any other dating site, they can control whomever they actually converse with, when the converse, etc. and after 24 hours the LSSW will disappear with the man’s wasted time, effort and validation.
The man literally becomes a product on the shelf at a supermarket. This is why attractive women flock to it. No risk, all reward, all control over the interaction. It takes what little dominance that could by garnered initiating off the table.
Note: I'm not saying don't use Tinder, Bumble, Happn or CaB. Just be wary of how heavily female-catered these sites in particular have been crafted. It's always better to know exactly what you're up against so you can form a strategy around it rather than resort to blindly throwing the dice or throwing your hands and not playing at all. The former's what TRP's all about.

FreyWill 10y ago
I only really use Tinder, are there any better apps I should be using? I tried PoF once but it was full of dogs
Still_relevant 10y ago
What annoys me on tinder is that while I get decent results with my current pic (standing between three hb8,5-9,5 with puppy eyes looking at my tall frame in a club who are eye-fcking me hard) I would rather try with a more explicit sexual pic of my face & naked upper body. However to do so I have to add it to Facebook and no way in hell am I doing that.. Same goes for other supermarket apps afaik
[deleted] 10y ago
alternatively just make a new FB, but you don't get the mutual friends shown.
MarvelousWhale 10y ago
Is this feature even worthwhile? I've limited experience with online dating but it has never come in handy
OmLaLa 10y ago
You can make a private picture folder that only you can see, upload the pictures there and that way they won't end up on your timeline/newsfeed.
Screenp2 10y ago
12 months on Cupid.. 10 bangs and I only initiated contact once.
Want to be successful online..
Rule #1.. Be attractive
If you look like shit, you're doing day and night game sucker.
plsjustgo 10y ago
Do you put any of your career details on your profile?
Screenp2 10y ago
nothing specific, just a line about if you love what you do you'll never work a day in your life.
AmericanHistoryAFBB 10y ago
I'm attractive too. Tips? Shirtless pics, yay or nay. Smiling yay or nay. If your pics suck it doesn't matter how attractive you are. So it'd be nice to know what kinds of pics you use to get messaged first.
Screenp2 10y ago
I went with a B&W action photo ice skating dressed in all black with a scruffy beard and askew hair.
the action pics seem to work best over head and body shots.
BeyondDedication 10y ago
I have over 15 in 10 months. Not one upping... just proving our strategies didn't matter, we're both sexy as fuck.
Best opener I ever received "your veins look like nurse porn." She was a freak.
OmLaLa 10y ago
Attractive people don't feel the need to dick measure. There's enough pussy to go around. Cheers to abundancy.
[deleted] 10y ago
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OmLaLa 10y ago
How attractive were the women?
trpftw 10y ago
You're bullshit, I consider myself attractive, and yet the only girls who initiate are utterly ugly. The girls that respond, mediocre (5/10-7/10). The girls that never respond, mediocre hot (7/10).
Here's an experiment for you, I know from a previous girlfriend... If you're a girl who is 7/10... You will have 200 messages every week on OKC. I'm not kidding around. So even if you were a male-model, most girls will not even respond to you (but you'll get responses from others). In fact, out of 200 messages in 1 week, 40-70 of them will be hot guys.
Your time is better spent at the gym or day/night game, rather than a site like OKC.
You only get hot girls from these sites if you have a very muscular physique or are tall.
Getting phone numbers is not even enough and is already super difficult, getting them to appear in real life, nearly impossible without 1000s of messages sent. And yes, I have gone months trying different photographs, long messages, short messages, humorous messages, qualify-messages, even messages that are pretty negative which gets the most responses but doesn't get you anywhere.
There's a threshold, if you're hot enough, you get constant success (but not guaranteed on every girl), if you're not hot enough, you get tumbleweeds rolling by. I've had more success on tinder with 9/10s.
Online-dating is a buyer's market. The woman are shopping and there's 30 women for every gigantic mall full of stores. Good luck having a shopper come into your store.
[deleted] 10y ago
I think a lot of it is location too. In a big liberal mountainous state. I could have at least 1 date a week. Here in this conservative unpopulated shit hole.... bone dry.
Where are you? Big city?
trpftw 10y ago
Near a big city, but it's still bone dry on the internet. If you want dates you gotta go out and talk to hot girls. Otherwise good luck.
And by good luck I mean you won't find anyone for months.
[deleted] 10y ago
I am just learning my real life game. I got the okcupid thing down well in the big city. I fucking blow hard at irl game.... struck out sooo many times last night. BUT I am learning the ways...
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epistemic_humility 10y ago
I'd recommend adding hinge to your list. It's a decent app, plenty of LSSW matched based on common friends.
I heard it from the horses mouth ( ex plate), she was more willing to meet folks she matched with on hinge than anywhere else because her friends may be distantly connected. (No we didn't meet on hinge)
Note: if you want to fully take advantage of hinge you'll need to sully your Facebook by friending a bunch HB8-10s so their friends match you. You'll also want the chrome extension that replaces your Facebook feed with a single motivational quote. Otherwise you'll drown in the crap these ladies post to Facebook.
MarvelousWhale 10y ago
I've been meaning to organize my FB into categorized relationships with people on my friends list. So far I've got family and friends so my family doesn't see all the dope and pot jokes they put on my wall but I need to go in and filter it further.
Men, family and women, women are just blocked from showing content on my news feed entirely unless I am directly tagged or referenced.
Gotta figure this one out somehow.
Luckyluke23 10y ago
great post man. very informative.
reading most of the comments below. it feels like.
" if you are the " bad pit of looks" then use tinder to save time, If not day game"
[deleted] 10y ago
Bumble is a hilarious failed approach to online dating and everyone I've met on that app is on tinder anyways.
[deleted] 10y ago
I sometimes wonder what would happen if you made the same app for men, but marketed the chase to women.
Pre-validation and social status is important, right? What if you emphasised how many other chicks are interested? Put some buzzwords and advertising in there about how exciting and fun it is to vye for a hunk's attention. You could even have a public display on every man's profile of the profile photos (and only the profile photos) of every woman who has checked out his profile, thus giving a woman another social indicator.
My only concerns would be the complaints of unequal womens' rights, and also the fact that the women have to initiate the interaction. But, women love pretending to be a little submissive to the right Alpha, don't they?
OmLaLa 10y ago
I really don't like the concept of Bumble. I just imagine some poor schmuck waiting patiently for an initiation that'll never come, then paying $0.99 (or whatever the hell it costs) to extend the timer an extra 24 hours because "maybe she didn't see it".
She saw it. And Bumble just made $0.99 off of her ignoring him.
[deleted] 10y ago
Wow I didn't even know they monetized it.
Another thing about bumble that's sketchy as fuck (aside from the fact that an outspoken feminist parted ways with tinder to make it) is that you'll start to see the same profiles repeat in your area. I'm also certain plenty are fake and by bumble.
Luckyluke23 10y ago
thats a pretty good business model if ever i saw it.
NaughtyFred 10y ago
If I'm reading this right, the "online shopping" nature of tinder explains the male profile pic being "naked torso, no face" being a successful strategy to put oneself in the "fuck" category?
If so, at what point does the responder see the face the torso is attached to? And how important is it for that face be on a similar level of attractiveness? (ie can "hot bod, ugly face guy" keep things moving in the right direction?)
OmLaLa 10y ago
My second picture is a face pic for this very reason. If the torso pic intrigues them enough to look at my pictures, by the second picture they can confirm that the "carpet matches the drapes" (I think I'm using that right...).
dr_warlock 10y ago
You /u/Omlala shall be Omlala aka Online Dating Prophet Omlalahammed. /u/redpillschool, you should consider flairing Omlala as 'Online Dating Guru' due to his successful specialization in this field.
HumanSockPuppet 10y ago
Then I'll draw a cartoon of him daygaming and a great Holy War will ensure.
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Invalidity 10y ago
This is why daygame is ultimately superior to such "dating" apps. It avoids dealing with the type of women that would be on apps such as Tinder, ie. sluts and attention whores.
Not to mention, if she takes the bait, it's easier to reel her in as there will be no immediate competition.
aherne18 10y ago
It's more than that: day Game / night game are the only options if you aren't marketable
diFFzee 10y ago
I am 28, with a super demanding career I care very much about. I simply have no time to daygame. I did however get very lucky in the gene pool lottery (6'4'', six pack, vcut, chiseled chin etc) which means Tinder supplies me a limitless amount of girls for minimal effort. Literally minimal. I 've had girls after a grand total of 10 texts exchanged both on tinder and regular txt. Online isn't for everyone, but online in my case is very time efficient.
Invalidity 10y ago
Hence the exception and not the rule.
OmLaLa 10y ago
I know I've painted a grim picture here (as I often do), but I don't believe one is better or worse than the other.
I'd say the young, time/freedom-having RPer should focus on day-game, the post-college/grad school/newly grad RPershould focus on online dating (less time-extensive and much cheaper) and the career-focused RPer should be able to decide between them depending on his career.
They're two ends to the same means. Sex.
[deleted] 10y ago
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OmLaLa 10y ago
What you decide to use and your opinion on which is better is up to you.
As I've said, there are pros and cons to each. I don't prefer or weigh one over another.
[deleted] 10y ago
I was against tinder for years but after you figure the app out and get decent photos I now feel like it puts the ball back in the men's court rather than locking the door to the woman's, like I did in the past. I think I am relying a lot on my profile though, and I have paid for the premium.
Also everyone's on tinder and OmLaLas guide will cut to the chase very quickly and weed out the dead ends.
[deleted] 10y ago
Now this is metagame I like to think about. Obviously it's only going to be feasible if you're a high smv guy. I would also advocate having your profile pic purely eccentuating your physique. We might as well be putting a paper bag over our head as long as we're in good shape and projecting a masculine image; though I'm sure being a good looking guy doesn't hurt. But instead of a "Facebook" type profile pic as your main pic, I'd go the shirtless or close to it route instead. Unless you use those for Facebook or LinkedIn as well haha. Good stuff. I've never liked "liking" the girls on OKC, but I didn't think of just forgoing the message all together. Yeah, and bumble blows.
[deleted] 10y ago
I like the idea of using visiting as an intro. I've always just pretended that it didn't exist.
It comes with a silent hint of a rejection if you're high smv, which is nice.
OmLaLa 10y ago
Check this out.
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T0000009 10y ago
"I demand to be pursued by men who are unable to pursue me based on the site design"
Wow... Just wow... How the fuck can these harpies endlessly complain about the lack of "available men" when all these sites make it nearly impossible to even communicate.
OmLaLa 10y ago
They don't want "available men". They want "high-SMV men" and only high-SMV men without all the clutter of getting to know him or shit-testing or digging through inboxes, etc.
So along comes "Bumble" which lines all the men up in a neat little row, the ones who think she's pretty will raise their hand and she gets to take her sweet little time and pick out the ones she likes like pastries in a bakery.
Either way, Bumble will eventually crumble because the Alphas will inevitably leave it The hot women, because all of the Alphas have left, will discover that Bumble is just another validation source and flock back to Tinder because Tinder offers them both options in validation and sex.
T0000009 10y ago
I'm with you on everything, great post and your technique actually worked a little for me on Match years ago. Granted I had no clue back then, and it wasn't used effectively like with your example, but the concept is solid.
We all want the highest SMV partner there is, In my day it was Sophia Lorin, Farrah Fawcett, Heather Lochlear, but like most men I was capable of sorting fantasy from reality and realized I wasn't going to get them. The modern bitter bitch is totally convinced that Brad Pitt is going to show up on her doorstep and accept her 12 kids, $843,439.23 debt, and be giddy about getting hitched to her size 37 fat rolls.
Alas... That's the world we find ourselves in.... to much product left on the shelf to rot.
epistemic_humility 10y ago
I feel like theredpill as a community should be against bumble because of how much power it gives the ladies.
uninstalls bumble
Tinder and Hinge is all you need.
[deleted] 10y ago
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OmLaLa 10y ago
It all depends on where you live, really. I travel quite a bit for work. Some areas Tinder only consists of fake profiles and single moms (usually the more rural areas) and some Tinder's the only place where you can find a decent lay (big cities, the coast). Where I live (stateside) is a healthy balance of both, making it easier to weigh the two types of sites.
epistemic_humility 10y ago
Can confirm. In my city pof and okc are garbage. Not worth the effort. It's all tinder and hinge.
OmLaLa 10y ago
I just started on Hinge. It's pretty interesting so far.
phrostbyt 10y ago
This message is for the op and every other poster on the Internet: if you're going to use acronyms, can you at least explain wish they mean? Even once? I don't know what ioi or lssw are, and since I'm on mobile it's a pain to look them up. Please red pill guys, define your acronyms so it won't feel like you're only addressing veterans.
epistemic_humility 10y ago
Google what you don't understand.
Not just on this sub but in life. Google is your friend. Knowledge is just around the corner if you want it bad enough.
But I totally googled 'theredpill LSSW' and I would agree that in formal writings one should explain the acronym before its use. As the say, sidebar sidebar sidebar.
-Cheers
phrostbyt 10y ago
i don't have the time or patience to google every other word when i'm reading on my phone. it would be much easier and convenient for everyone if the OP took a couple seconds to just explain what acronyms he's using once before he uses them
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MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
In my experience, women log on several times a day and buzz through a plethora of inbox replies and profile views. One of the recurring complaints I've read and heard directly is, Men who view my profile but don't contact me are creepy." If you're trying to calibrate "bake time," you don't want her to go through too many waves of checking her responses and views before hearing back from you. If your picture SMV happens to be near the lower bound of her target, this could bump you down a notch you can't afford.
It's a matter of balancing the opposing forces of attrition versus appearing needy by responding instantly.
OmLaLa 10y ago
Watch what they do, not what they say.
Think about what she's saying for a second.
"I don't want some guy to just come around to my publicly-displayed dating site profile and NOT message me and shower me in validation. Not giving me validation is rude and makes him creepy."
Well, does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me.
Now, let's rephrase that:
"I don't want some beta guy to just come around to my publicly-displayed dating site profile and NOT message me and shower me in validation. Not giving me validation is rude and makes him creepy."
Online blanket statements like that aren't referring to all men. They are either meant for betas or Alphas.
"Don't message me if you're only here for sex" -For Betas
"You found me! Message me ;-)" -For Alphas
"I'm a lady first. Show me some respect." -For Betas
"A Queen looking for her King" -For Alphas
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
How large/fast of a dating market do you operate in, Omlala? In Los Angeles, a woman checking her profile every few hours will have dozens of responses queued up, and even more profile views to consider. I'm not disagreeing with your principle at all, but suggesting that in a fast market, the "bake time" has to be calibrated like cooking garlic bread in the broiler. It spends most of its time not ready, then goes to totally burnt, with about an 8-second sweet spot between states.
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Kalikoenig 10y ago
Do you notice a difference in POF and Tinder in regards to how attractive the receptive women are? I only use Tinder and am curious what the differences in women are and if I should start to open my options in other dating sites/apps.
[deleted] 10y ago
I think OmLaLa has motivated me to try some different forms of online dating outside of tinder as well.
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NovusDavid 10y ago
Would you say that IRL men (cold approach) and on the internet girls choose who they talk to (depending mainly on looks or "smv")? I always looked at online "dating" as something like an easy way out for men who dont have the guts to do it in real life.
OmLaLa 10y ago
You're reading way too literally into the term "online dating". If online dating were it's literal term equivolent, it'd be something along the lines of a romantic relationship between two online pen-pals.
Either way, we aren't hoping to "date" on online dating sites. It's just the venue. Just like a bar or club. There are pros and cons to it (much easier and cheaper but SMV portrayal is limited) but, as there are a large amount of women on them, it'd be shameful not to develop a sexual strategy around online approaching just like we do with cold and passive approaching.
I could just show you that these strategies work. But it'd be better for you and the community if I told you how/why they work, you try them for yourself and then you decide from there.
sir_wankalot_here 10y ago
I guess companies like Amazon lack guts also ?
[deleted] 10y ago
Window shopping - what if the hamster goes like "hah he is too shy to message, i am sooo hot"
[deleted] 10y ago
What women say vs what they do. The "don't message me with hi" thing is a shit test. It filters out the betas.
Do you think she seriously cares if you initiate with a "hi"? Of course she doesn't.
[deleted] 10y ago
Or maybe they have expectations for more entertaining openers... i find it pretty boring too, what other initial convo lines can be used?