Welcome to The Red Pill
The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.
Original Reddit Red Pill sub (quarantine bypass) that contains the full original sidebar
The Rules & Glossary
You are REQUIRED to read these before posting. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse.
Endorsed Contributors: Respect The Tag
Glossary of Terms and Acronyms (2015)
Here to troll? Here's a Glossary of Shaming Tactics, try to be creative and avoid these. We know you won't, that's why you're easy to spot.
The Red Pill Network
Official Fail Safe Forums (Currently Locked)
New Here?
New here? Read the following threads and the Theory Reading below. Read before participating:
Confessions of a Reformed Incel
Theory Reading
Relationships, the Red Pill, and you
Women, the most responsible teenager in the house
On Value and the Value of Women
Powertalk and other Language Categories
References
Everything you need to know about Shit Tests
Comprehensive Guide to Shit Tests
Goals - A beginners guide on how to attain them
One Key Step to Not Giving a Fuck
Links to the Manosphere
Subreddit By Flair
Red Pill Subreddits
/r/TheRedPill
/r/RedPillWomen
/r/askTRP
/r/RedPillParenting
/r/thankTRP
/r/becomeaman
/r/altTRP
/r/GEOTRP
/r/TRPOffTopic
The Archives
Special Thanks
/u/CrazyHorseInvincible
/u/bsutansalt
/u/EpicLevelCheater
/u/Halitenina
/u/SlyGradient
/u/TheRedPike
/u/RedForEducation
/u/RedShifter99
/u/LegendOfTheFrontier
/u/MachiavellianRed
/u/RedSovereign
/u/OldMuckyTerrahawk
/u/Aerobus
/u/RedAsteroid
/u/CrimsonPerspective
/u/RedGoldSaint
/u/GaiusScaevolus
/u/SoftHarem
/u/-Anteros-

DonRP 10y ago
Thanks for doing this AMA!
1) To what extent do you agree or disagree with your wife's summary of the problems and corrections that your marriage went through? Do you feel that your wife changed on her own or do you feel like you played a part?
2) Since most partners find it difficult to take a step back and consider that they may be the problem (as your wife did), what advice would you give specifically to men in marriages who feel controlled, belittled or not respected by their wives?
3) What advice would you give to younger men to avoid a situation like you had in their own marriage in the first place? Do you think marriage is still "worth it"?
jmdoyle 10y ago
1: My reaction to the problems was to check out and shut down and go along with everything. From my perspective it was just a matter of hoping things would somehow get better. But I think her change lit a spark in me to make a change happen too.
In retrospect, I agree with her view of the problems. At the time I thought I was the problem because she was telling me I was the problem.
It's symbiotic a little bit. We changed each other. As she changed, I would change, causing her to change more.
2: It's pretty dangerous to try to make her change by telling her she's controlling or bossy. My wife is good at helping women get a clear view of how they're participating in their marriage struggles. Try giving her a book. The Surrendered Wife is an inflammatory title that would probably get shoved back up your ass if you suggested it to your wife, but Laura's new book, First, Kill All the Marriage Counselors has a less inflammatory title and can really help open your wife's eyes and help things start to change for the better.
3: I think marriage is still worth it. There is a natural dance between men and women and with a man's side it's more being solid and taking the hits and not being emotional about it, but accepting that's how women and men are different. I need someone to impress and someone to please and the mirroring of how good I am. I have someone to work for. Men have always tried to impress women. That's how we progressed.
garlicextract 10y ago
Wow. The world we live in, where a single wife "surrendering" is more offensive and inflammatory than the suggestion of mass murder.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
Ha ha ha! I don't know what happened to this crazy thing. Rookie mistake.
zandd23 10y ago
"Before Laura was a Surrendered Wife, there was an expectation set up long before we got in the car that I wouldn't do it right."
This hit me like a thunderbolt. My marriage in a nutshell. Once there were contractors in and out of our house, and as I left one day I wondered if I should lock the door. Well, I thought, if I lock it I'll get yelled at for locking out the contractors and if I leave it unlocked I'll get yelled at for that. There was literally no way to win.
"At least you got that you aren't crazy, I hope.". This was truly the gift the book gave me. I realized there wasn't anything wrong with me, even though that was the consistent message I received in my marriage.
I was so happy now to have found a woman that is naturally saturated in "Surrendered Wife" wisdom.
like_a_ghost 10y ago
Idk why but I have to ask because I'm curious....which choice did you go with? Locked door or unlocked door?
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
That's great! Many times as men we're people-pleasing our wives and we go overboard and that doesn't help either of you. Thank you for relating your experience and I'm glad things are going good for you now.
Redasshole 10y ago
Thank you for taking some time to do an AMA.
How is your sex life?
jmdoyle 10y ago
By "your" I assume you mean "our." And by "our" I don't mean you and me.
It's really good. Thanks for asking.
Sex is an important thing in marriage. Vital.
Redasshole 10y ago
I meant your.
Thank you for the answer.
bogeyd6 10y ago
Hi Jim. I have a two part question.
What single most important piece of advice would you give a man who is on his way to filing divorce papers? If you feel good about her, and she generally feels good about you. However, you just cant seem to make it work. Does that mean there is something to also save?
jmdoyle 10y ago
This is John, but I'm guessing you're pretty wiped out from getting ready to file for divorce, so I won't hold it against you. Laura threatened me with divorce once, so I get it.
My advice is that there IS something to save. If you're on your way to file for divorce, stop off at Arby's and have a shake instead.
You can make a difference. I hear you saying you don't want a divorce.
Laura's only ever written one blog for men and it's about how to get your wife to stop nagging you. If you go to her website and search for "How to Get Your Wife" it pops up. It may give you some insight about what to do. She mostly writes for the wife, but this could help you.
Once she stops nagging you'll do better.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
I'm 59, Laura is 48. It will be 26 years married next month.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6075
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
Something like that.
jmdoyle 10y ago
I want to thank everyone for participating today--this was great! I especially want to thank the mods for making this possible. Peace!
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
Thanks, my wife will appreciate that!
AnalLeak 10y ago
This is amazing. Has anybody sent this link to their wife with good results?
my_redpill_account 10y ago
Thanks, had no idea who he was and a bing search led me to some musician lol
heeb 10y ago
Bing? Is that still a thing?
my_redpill_account 10y ago
Yeah... Default engine in the win10 search bar. It's really not that bad, bing rewards isn't something I'd say is a game changer but it's cool you get points for random searches. I'm gonna search anyway so why not throw away points into stupid contests they have.
A search is a search. People just circlejerk over Google, but being a tech fag I like windows 10 and want to support Microsoft products.
[deleted]
my_redpill_account 10y ago
I've heard about it. But my searches aren't anything that would really flag me for anything.
I mean the last search I had was "what does it mean when a wisdom tooth is impacted". I use my laptop for facebook (barely), reddit and guitar tabs. Occasionally porn but my phone is more important to spy on, which is an Iphone and apple has been tracking, watching, etc for longer than microsoft (guessing, i have no proof) so whatever.
[deleted] 10y ago
Bro. You should stop using Windows 10. They spy on you in insidious ways.
Move to GNU/Linux.
my_redpill_account 10y ago
I don't use my computer enough in ways they'd gather anything worth spying on me with. I barely game and mostly use it for reddit, guitar tabs, and porn.
My phone is more valuable to spy on, which is an iphone, which I would guess is probably more spied on than a windows product. I don't look into it, because I don't care.
I understand what you're saying though.
systemshock869 10y ago
Has this been shown to be true anywhere? From what I can tell, they only have access to things you give them access to, like every other major tech company.
sippindrank 10y ago
Those gift certificates you can get from the points really add up.
my_redpill_account 10y ago
yeah, you have to search so why not.
I just enter in that 10 credit drawing whenever, its not a huge deal to me. at home i search and don't use those so i'll save them up for a gift card.
at work i have a seperate MS account so i enter those into drawings cause why not, doesn't matter to me.
[deleted] 10y ago
A search is most definitely, definitely not a search. I swear. Just try the bing vs Google on your next 5-10 relatively obscure searches. I've had to prove this to my mom a few times since my stepdad is (rightfully) anti-Google. I don't agree with them as a company all the time, but you can't deny efficiency.
my_redpill_account 10y ago
I guess.
I get the results I want/need so it doesn't bother me.
OneInAZillion 10y ago
Why do you think a lot of women have a hard time agreeing and identifying with the messages of The Surrendered Wife?
I noticed on the Amazon Customer Review page that most people who rated the book either gave it a 4 or 5 or a 1. That tells me that it's very polarizing among it's readers. Why do you think this is?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I think a lot of women are afraid they're going to have to give up something that's protecting them by being vulnerable. It's always scary to change and the reactions to having to change can be visceral. And some women just look at the title and don't go any further into what the book is about. A lot of women philosophically disagree with the book. We call these women "single." LOL.
Elodrian 10y ago
This calls to mind Richard Dawkins' preface to the 30th anniversary edition of The Selfish Gene:
JohnPeel 10y ago
Don't even get me started on therapy.
One should always be suspicious of anyone whereby the better they are at their job, the less likely the customer is to return.
[deleted] 10y ago
That's not quite accurate (except for marriage therapists, then it very well may be). But you don't go to the dentist once and call it a day for good, no matter how well they clean your teeth you need check ups.
Going to therapy just when you "have a problem" is a decently American thing plus all the negative stigmas. In many other countries everyone just goes regularly, quite similar to the mechanic or dentist.
I don't mean this as RP or anti-RP or anything. I'm just not accustomed to viewing therapy like that. Again, with marriage therapists, eh, you're probably entirely correct.
[deleted] 10y ago
Can you elaborate on that last sentence?
haxurmind 10y ago
Manufactured Obsolescence.
The idea is that if you do too good a job on the first run with a product, it will outlast the needs of the customer so you don't make as much money as you would reselling the same product over and over.
Specifically for a therapist; where money is more important than results, they will work in a way that you will achieve the same result after several more appointment$ than necessary.
ColdEiric 10y ago
Hunger is a problem. Just like any other problem you'd bring to therapy.
But everyone of us knows that hunger is a problem which you can't solve. You know it, and the baker who sells you your bread knows it. The problems you bring to your Therapy, on the hand, are problems you can solve. You solve them, by the help of meditation, by God, by not behaving like an idiot, by not thinking like an idiot, and so on. Therapists know this, but they don't want you to know it. Because if you do, you won't be visiting them anymore, and they can't 'sell you more of their bread'. So, therapists want you to 'come in, talk about your problems'. Instead of solving it and not paying the expensive therapist.
Or as John says;
If success in therapy means less money for therapists, they're not trying to solve your problems. Because once they've solved your problems, you won't be paying them anymore. Why go to therapy if your problems are solved? That's why they aren't trying to solve them, and you should avoid therapists. Just like you avoid feminists who try to make you pay for their nonsense. They don't want to solve your problems. They just pretend to listen to you, and expect you to pay for the time they give you.
like_a_ghost 10y ago
This makes sense to me. I'd add in that they can easily exaggerate problems and/or create the appearance of more problems and in doing so, get more moneys.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
Is it true that she didn't mention you missed an exit resulting in driving to another state? How did that fly from your perspective?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I don't recall that happening because when she surrendered, things like that weren't such a big deal, like red-letter arguments anymore.
I notice when I'm driving by myself, I seem to have no problem just getting to where I'm going. But when we were in the car together I felt like much of my attention had to go towards her and that I wasn't really paying attention because we were usually talking or arguing, which usually resulted in me not concentrating on my driving as much.
Her not talking about missing an exit meant I realized it myself, and then I just turned around and we got to our destination anyway. But I don't remember crossing state lines. We live in California so that would not be easy to do. States are smaller back east.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
Thanks for the answer. I've never understood how that was supposed to have been a VIRTUE.
Follow-up, would you say ASSERTIVENESS, as opposed to passive/aggressive, is a good skill for a wife to have?
For example, "I think we may have missed our exit" as opposed to doing nothing while the car goes hundreds of miles versus "YOU IDIOT! You missed our exit! Now we'll never get there thanks to you!"
Many people misunderstand assertiveness and conflate it with aggression.
jmdoyle 10y ago
Before Laura was a Surrendered Wife, there was an expectation set up long before we got in the car that I wouldn't do it right.
If I'm driving, I'll figure out if I'm going the wrong way eventually. I don't need her to tell me.
Maybe I was planning to go a different way. Or not! Just let me drive. If you start getting into all this minutia while I'm driving, I'm going to end up in a ditch.
Usually I missed the exit based on having to deal with her in the first place. I'd rather she said nothing. Nobody wants to be corrected when they're driving.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
What about assertiveness in day to day life? It is one of the bullet points on the back cover of the book, though not by name. "The Surrendered Wife" is a step-by-step guide that teaches women how to... express their needs while respecting their husband's choices."
jmdoyle 10y ago
Surrendering doesn't mean be a doormat, but I'm looking at the back of The Surrendered Wife and I don't see assertiveness there. Assertiveness sounds confrontational and argumentative to me.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
That's the mistake a lot of people make when they hear the word; they conflate it with aggression. Look at the second bullet point on the back of the book, and this from the Wikipedia page on assertiveness.
Assertiveness isn't the opposite of passivity, it is a style that transcends both passive AND aggressive behavior.
prittbc 10y ago
It's usually a lack of tactfullness in someones speach as well, I understand what you mean and my two cents is usually people don't generally learn how to tactfully communicate with loved ones like you would with someone at work or just meeting someone. Few people stop and think about not just what they are going to say to someone they know, but also how they will say it.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 10y ago
Agreed. Thanks for joining us on TRP today, it has been interesting and insightful.
[deleted] 10y ago
What do you think of the red pill?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I think it's a great place for honesty. There seem to be a lot of hurt souls here, and a lot of wisdom too. Generally I feel like it's a good group of men who have gone through a lot of the relationship situations that I have. We're kindred spirits.
I'm grateful to be here doing this AMA. Thank you.
[deleted] 10y ago
Right back at ya! Appreciate the AMA.
ColdEiric 10y ago
Thank you for doing this, John Doyle.
Imagine that you're single; not married to your 'Surrendered Wife', and you're looking for a 'Surrendered Wife'. What socioeconomic status signals do you look for? What makes her good? What makes her someone you'd tell your friends to avoid? What details would you look for when you determine whether a man should keep talking or stop talking with this girl? What makes her 'just another slut', and what makes her 'someone who might be worth keeping'?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I think being a guy, it's a matter of hunting. I'd be in hunter mode. And I'd have to accept that there'd be some rejection and some disappointment. The key to success in dating or anything is to not take things personally. So I would just get out there and look for the right person that made me feel good about myself.
ColdEiric 10y ago
Thank you, John Doyle. I agree with you. Hunting is a good mindset to be in. You hunt for a good wife.
But I think you misunderstood my question.
I was asking for stuff like broad generalizations. Like "Always avoid girls who talk of their horse/horses." Because, supposedly you're prioritized after the horse. And on top of that, horses are expensive.
Have you got any of those? Any generalizations, any tests which you've found that your wife and her friends pass without any exceptions?
jmdoyle 10y ago
Avoid the girls who says her horse talks to her. Ha ha.
What I really think is look at yourself and see how she makes you feel more than anything. She could be the craziest person and to the point of exasperation for you. But if she makes you feel like you can be a better man then what's stopping you? I don't know of a litmus test because nobody can tell you about you.
Banchamekk 10y ago
you are encouraging people to marry ( which is extremely dangerous with the current laws) based on feelings. if a guy followd your bad advice the chances are good he will marry a good manipulator who will fuck him over badly.
your advice is useless, its like telling a guy who has zero success in dating to be just himself and keep looking.
ColdEiric 10y ago
What, something in the style of this?
"Does this girl make me feel good'? Or do I feel like I feel when I meet yet another stranger? Does her mere presence improve things and stuff?"
Once again, thank you for your time, John.
jmdoyle 10y ago
For me, it involved reflection when I wasn't with her, like after the date or when I was just driving around. Something in my brain, almost something subconscious, was replaying the significant cues and messages I would pick up from her on our date or in our time together. With Laura, I would be at work and thinking about her and feel like she was good for me. It's pretty simple.
TheRiseAndFall 10y ago
But those feelings are natural after the first few times one spends with a girl. I was with a girl last weekend and we spent nearly a whole day in bed. She loved the way I held her close to me because I am the strongest guy she's been with, and I loved having someone to love being with me like that. I thought about her at work on Monday and while I was out on Sunday. But I know those are just feelings of infatuation that are natural in the "honeymoon phase" of the relationship.
How long do you have to be with a girl to know that she is making you feel good when you are not with her? The last girl I had a serious, monogomous relationship with was very much like this girl at first, but I grew to almost hate her when we were apart because she was often unreasonable, and did little things that pissed me off sometimes. Does this not happen with everyone eventually?
I've never really felt as good about women as I do about some of my male friends. Sometimes we make each other mad, but we still have good relationships with each other and have a good time going out for a few beers or just hang out. You can really open up to your best friend and have them be there for you through difficult times that I've never seen in women. They always seem to care less for you as a person if you do that.
[deleted]
rockinhard130 10y ago
After reading reviews on Amazon, I'm thinking that this is the equivalent of the married wife's "No More Mr Nice Guy". Have you read that book? And if so what are your thoughts on it?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I don't read relationship books. Sorry.
robjnava 10y ago
It's more of a social book than anything else, relationships aren't a core topic touched by it. Extremely recommend it
Lt_Muffintoes 10y ago
It's not a relationship book, it's about ingrained behaviours.
notmyusualreddit 10y ago
Thats a dumb answer from someone whos marriage was apparently helped by the now contents of a relationship book.
Dildo_Saggins 10y ago
From chapter 1 of her book:
Thought I'd point out that rampant hypergamy does indeed exist everywhere. How did you feel about your wife wanting to constantly "trade up"? And how is it now that she has changed?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I had the feeling she was just blowing a lot of hot air and maybe testing me. We had only been married a few years at that time. I felt that she knew what a big step divorce would have been at the time because her parents had been divorced and she could see the pain it causes. I wasn't totally believing she wanted to split up. It felt more annoying than anything else because I knew I wasn't much different than any other guy around.
Now that she's changed it's more like we're both participating in this relationship and not just looking for the exit or something better. We're not rolling dice in our heads. It stable and grounded and fun. We can have fun within the relationship without being scared all the time. It feels permanent. No worrying that a strong wind would blow everything away.
Dildo_Saggins 10y ago
That's really nice to hear. Not enough LTR advice going on in this subreddit, thank you.
jmdoyle 10y ago
Thanks, Dil!
PanzerBatallion 10y ago
That's because it gets downvoted anytime the M word is brought up, and like it or not, the majority of people who are 10-20 years older than you that can give you advice about successful LTRs are married.
Its a self fulfilling aspect of this forum. No marriage can succeed, so we don't believe anyone who says it can.
[deleted] 10y ago
What motivated you to marry your wife?
Was she always aggressive and catty during your relationship? If so why did you marry her even through such difficult to handle traits?
Have you ever done research or seen the effects of divorce on the men around you?
How do you and your wife maintain interest in one another through time?
Thank you for doing this. It'll definitely bring the forum a different perspective.
EDIT: Sorry for this, but I have 1 last question. Do you think the Jaded skepticism that is common in this forum is a healthy stance for relationships with women in the modern age?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I was motivated to marry Laura because she was cute and with a lot of energy and a lot of fun. We got along.
She wasn't always aggressive or catty during our relationship, but sometimes she was, but not enough that it really stopped me from liking her. I was rather smitten.
In my own family and Laura's family I've seen what divorce can do and it seems like such a waste. A couple builds something up together and then they throw it away because of seemingly trivial reasons. I'm not talking about physical abusers. I'm talking about women who are angry themselves and they project it on their husband and they think that someone else is going to be better. But they have to take themselves with them.
I don't know why Laura is interested in me, but I still think she's cute. It's like the Beatles said, "I love you, and you seem to like me."
Actually, I feel loved. She's lucky but I'm luckier.
It may sound like a joke but it's a far cry from being raged at and wishing you never met this person. Feeling like you're better off alone.
We have a lot to talk about. When you're not talking about problems and what's wrong with the other person, and you're talking about things you want, and the future, there's a lot to talk about.
jmdoyle 10y ago
I see nothing wrong with self-protection, but you can't be a hermit. I prefer more of a healthy skepticism. You have to take some chances. There's a celtic saying, "To the brave belong all things." You might be scared but don't be too afraid to fail.
In terms of the modern age I don't think women have changed substantially inside.
[deleted] 10y ago
You are a very motivational person, thank you for your honest opinion.
jmdoyle 10y ago
Thank you very much for that. That's just what I was hoping--to share my experience so maybe it would help someone else.
antwonedw 10y ago
When did you first notice the "change" in your wife? Did she tell you, or you just notice over time that she started backing off from being "the boss".
Also when she was bossy and you were spending time in your garage, what were you doing in there?
jmdoyle 10y ago
Ha ha ha! Mostly I was hiding in the garage.
It's hard to say when I noticed the change exactly because it was pretty gradual.
I first noticed the change when I was going to do something for the family and she would say "I trust you to do a good job" on something that she wouldn't have trusted me on before. I was a little scared because I wasn't sure I trusted myself at first because I was taking over for the first time. In the beginning I just noticed over time. Eventually I could see there was a big difference between the person she was before and the person she was becoming and I felt happier and our marriage was improving.
StingrayVC 10y ago
Good afternoon, Mr Doyle. Thank you for doing this.
When your wife began to surrender, is the change something that you immediately noticed or did it take some time to see the change?
Also, how long did it take you to trust that this change was something that she intended on making permanent?
jmdoyle 10y ago
At first I didn't know there was a thing called surrendering. Then I started to notice that things that we used to fight about no longer came up as a conflict. Sometimes I'd be expecting a fight over something like when I was going to clean the garage and then she would just say, "whatever you think" about things that were just in my domain. It was small changes at first, then basically the jig was up when I found out she was writing a book.
jmdoyle 10y ago
As far as how long it took me to trust, that came about in stages. I started realizing things were changing subtly over time. I was kinda wondering what was going on and a little concerned that she might change back into a shrew and that this was just a temporary thing. It's seems to have stuck.
redpillschool Admin 10y ago
We verified this user (late to the party lol)
jmdoyle 10y ago
Yep, it's me! John Doyle. Husband of Laura Doyle, Surrendered Wife author.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
It would be nice if other people had happy marriages, so yeah. I wrote a few blogs for Laura's website. I try not to get into any trouble that would end up on TMZ.
Although I have my own video company that does work for the legal profession, I support her efforts by making videos for her to get her message out.
FortunateBum 10y ago
Maybe this is a better question for your wife.
I'm just curious really, but why is it women are so obsessed with control? It's something I've noticed over the years and have never been able to really understand.
questionnmark 10y ago
My hunch is anxiety. Women tend to to be more anxious than men, so they tend to want to be more pro-active. I guess the answer to this anxiety proposed in the book is not to seek control, but to allow trust instead.
tallwheel 10y ago
That's a good question for TRP.
Shit testing. She's testing your fitness as a mate. You fail the test by surrendering control, and the more you fail the more dissatisfied and unattracted to you she becomes. The important thing to realize is that she wants you to take control, and not surrender it to her.
jmdoyle 10y ago
I really couldn't tell you. I'm just another guy like you. You can ask Laura questions on her blog or on FB or Twitter. I'm sure she'd tell you what she's learned about this over the last 17 years.
One thought I have about it is that women are trying to be like men and deep down they're not men and they're afraid because they don't know how to be men. And they don't have to be men, but they're told they should be.
1independentmale 10y ago
I think you're spot on. This is one of the truly unfortunate consequences that feminism has brought the modern woman. I support equal rights and opportunity for women and I'd like to imagine the early feminist movement had good intentions, but the result has been an unmitigated disaster for relations between the sexes and especially for women.
Men don't want women who act like men. That seems obvious, but apparently today's women don't get it.
vicious_armbar 10y ago
John you've stated that you still think marriage is "worth it" to men. What specific benefits do you think marriage gives to a man, that outweigh the risks he is taking on; that a girlfriend can't provide him with? Assuming that he doesn't marry someone more affluent then him of course.
mrmeyhemn 10y ago
i've got this one John.
there are 0 benefits to men that outweigh the risk of marrying. there is nothing that a girlfriend can't provide him with that a wife can. marriage is an antiquated institution, with marriage v2.0 in full effect it would require that a man be completely batshit insane to marry.
now, go ahead and try to sell marriage some more john.
WhiteKnight49 10y ago
The answer is: If you want children.
If you want to have children, it is economically beneficial for you to be married. It gives you a variety of tax-based incentives and it can be good for your career. Why do you think presidents always want their wives showing up to support them at debates, speeches, etc.?
Does this outweigh the risk of divorce and settlements? Up to you.
Banchamekk 10y ago
the divorce (and actually the marriage itself as well) will cost you more than you can safe by your tax-incentives.
mrmeyhemn 10y ago
more bullshit. you don't have to be married to have children. surrogate or adopt. no wife to divorce rape you and you can raise your child how you see fit. often single fathers make much better parents than single mothers.
edit: i know a handful of women raised by single fathers. they are more down to earth, have lower n-count, more loyal to their boyfriends, more goal oriented, and less solipsistic than their counterparts that were raised by single mothers by a fucking mile.
the couple of guys i know that were raised by single dads are alpha as fuck.
WhiteKnight49 10y ago
Like I said, it's up to you. I know we like to jerk off to the fact that men are better than women here, but there is no data to back up your "often single fathers make much better parents than single mothers." statement other than anecdotal evidence. In fact most research suggests there isn't really a difference: http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/singpar.htm. I doubt being "alpha as fuck" is a criterion in most studies though.
vicious_armbar 10y ago
What specific tax-based incentives are you referring to that outweigh the 50% chance of losing all of your stuff, plus the chance of paying alimony, and an increased chance of paying child support? Usually women that are married to a man that accidentally get pregnant won't get an abortion.
I get that people say marriage has tax benefits. But I want specifics. The only benefit I can think of is that you save on your taxes if your wife makes less then you. That argument doesn't hold up financially; because if that's the case then you're supporting your wife, and in danger of being forced to pay for your wife's lawyer as well as paying alimony should you get divorced. And as I said before there is a 50% probability of that happening.
I know marriage is arguably beneficial to children. Marriages are more stable relationships because the man is locked down and unable to leave. Woman have to file divorce papers and retain a lawyer which is a pain in the ass so they are slightly less likely to leave as well.
But my question wasn't about what's best for the children. It was about what was best for the man.
Less then 1% of the population serves in elected positions, it's illegal to ask if someone has kids or their martial status during an interview, and if you want your employer to think your married you can easily wear a fake wedding ring to work.
WhiteKnight49 10y ago
Like I said, the risk is there, you just have to decide if it is worth it to you. However, if you ever have children, I think you will that that you want the best for them and that knowledge will make you happy. It will also make your life immensely easier to have a 2nd person helping you out with children. Lets even throw out tax benefits for a minute. If you married decently well, then your wife has a legitimate job and that adds quite a bit to your net income.
No way it is illegal to ask someones marital status. If so, how come it is on nearly every form I fill out these days?
vicious_armbar 10y ago
It's illegal for an employer to ask your martial status as well as if you have children in my state. I think it's in federal law also. If they do, and you don't get the job; then it opens them up to a employment discrimination lawsuit.
zandd23 10y ago
John, I just noticed this, so I'm late, but I just wanted to say that The Surrendered Wife had a huge influence upon me during the time I was getting divorced, a very stressful time for me. All the negative behaviors of the author, before she modified her behaviors, were an almost exact copy of the dynamics of my marriage. I sincerely hop the message of the book is still getting out, I believe it can have the same positive impact it had on me as on others
jmdoyle 10y ago
Wow! Thanks very much for that. I'm sorry to hear about the divorce. I hope everything goes well for you.
Before Simon & Schuster printed The Surrendered Wife, we self-published 2,000 copies hoping that it would help married people stay married. We didn't know it would strike such a big nerve across the country and the world. I hope somehow it helped to validate your experience. At least you got that you aren't crazy, I hope.
nyrp 10y ago
What changes did you notice in your wife between dating and the beginning of being married?
jmdoyle 10y ago
Not a lot because we were really hitting it off. We were having a full on relationship after a couple of weeks of dating. We were engaged for less than a year.
I blame hormones.
We struggled financially in the beginning of our marriage and I think that might have exacerbated her bad mood. She had a few rage episodes, which, when we were dating seemed kind of amusing. But after we were married, not so much.
notmyusualreddit 10y ago
What about dating someone with rage episodes made you want to marry them? If she had never learned the contents of this book, it seems like you were headed for divorce.
Do you think you picked the right person, or just got extremely lucky in self corrected?
jmdoyle 10y ago
I don't know if you've noticed, but women who rage seem to be pretty common. And when you're young like I was, you tend to overlook a lot of things so you can get sex.
I think it was more a matter of luck on my part that she saw what she had to do to change. In retrospect, I also picked her because I liked her, so it's not totally either or--it's a little bit of both.
We find someone who compliments us. So maybe it was her dynamic energy that complimented my static energy and it was just a matter of adjustment so that it all worked together. Me letting her be herself may have been part of her transformation.
But we had to stick together for that to happen.
[deleted] 10y ago
Fuck that "right person" myth.
dalls18 10y ago
Hello, thank you for doing this AMA. From your male perspective and from a man that has been successfully and happily married for many years....what qualities should a woman look for in a prospective husband or longtime partner? Also what is your favorite quality in your wife and in women in general? Also If you wanna slip in any other secrets to making a successful happy marriage, that'd be really appreciated haha. Thanks :)
jmdoyle 10y ago
As far as what a woman should look for, let's not set the bar too high here. If he's not a drug addict, problem gambler or alcoholic, physical abuser or serial cheater than he's good relationship material.
My favorite quality in my wife is receptivity. She accepts my help and my compliments and me. My gifts to her. That's what I mean by receptivity. I like women in general because they're cute.
As far as secrets to making a successful marriage: Make 'em laugh.
[deleted] 10y ago
[deleted]
jmdoyle 10y ago
As men, we pretty much go after anything that moves.
Same things apply though: Addicts, serial cheaters or physical abusers are not good choices for a mate or even a girlfriend.
In terms of setting the bar, unless you're at a track and field meet, I wouldn't overthink it. Just go with the flow.
RP_Vergil 10y ago
Hi, thanks for doing this AMA, when your wife started the process of surrendering, did her friends or yours start to comment on the change as much? Or was it so gradual that it wasn't even noticed much?