25lbs of fat is equivalent to 87,500 calories (gained or lost). That may sound like a lot if you're trying to lose weight body fat, but at 500 a day--which is entirely achievable--you'd lose that mass in just under 6 months if you are consistent.

Think about other life changing things you can do and consider how much time it takes to accomplish it? 6 months is a tiny duration comparatively speaking.

I lost 40 lbs in 5 months by doing keto because I was sick of being obese and I did notice I was being treated differently after I lost the weight. I am not angry about it, it is what it is. I know I would be more inclined to be nicer to a young hot chick versus an old fat one simply because of biology and I already assumed that everyone else worked the same way.

That being said, keto is definitely the best way to go from being fat to being not fat.

Another thing I don't see being talked too much here: FACIAL GAINS. When you get slim as fuck your face really appears, you get a more chiseled face and that shit is GOOD. When you're fat your face is hidden behind all that fat

I've spoken about the topic of SMV and fat loss numerous times around here but due to the tenacity needed to lose and maintain it I believe it's worth reiterating.

Here's my very first experience with it. For some reason I haven't told this story yet.

I was a high school football lineman so I ate however much I wanted of whatever I wanted and it made me a big strong boy. I used this excuse until the end of my football career and had to look elsewhere for my prestige. I'll tell you, if you're a big fat guy and you're not playing a sport, you're just a big fat guy.

I did manage to get a thin, attractive young girlfriend near the end of high school but she was full of shit tests. We were together for a few years and then she headed off to college out of town. Around that time I had finally started to lose the weight. When I went to go visit her at her college I had managed to lose somewhere in the realm of 80 lbs. Lost a ton of muscle too but whatever, I was still in phenomenal shape compared to the majority of people that were gaining college weight.

So one thing this girl always did when she was horny or feeling lovey is she would say "you're so cute." We went to a party when I was visiting and she was doing her share of drinking, so when we get back to her dorm it's time to frick. Lights are off, she's making out with me, grinding on me and breathely says to me for the first time, "you're so hot." And that's when I knew being overweight was unattractive to women. Even if they say "you're perfect", "I love you", "I'd do anything for you" being attractive is always better than being unattractive.

Anyway, I broke up with her the next day. I wasn't going to do a long distance thing. 3 hour drive? Early 20s me wasn't putting up with that shit.

That 25lbs isnt just for show though. It takes so much to earn that. That 25 lbs is your fucking trophy and a testament to everyone else that you mean business and they better not fuck around with you because you will actually do something about it.

I just want to say that I love this thread so much because its filled with bros talking about how much they have lost or gained. You guys fucking get it and are doing it. I love this community (well most of it). I will always bend over backwards to help out a bro that is trying, but have absolutely no love for the beta who gave up and wont do anything to make their lives better.

Great Post...

Unfortunately the world is indeed this superficial.

I've been up 9lbs and it starts to get positive attention from both genders.
As i am a skinny dude, the progress is obvious, every pound is visible.
They definitly admire the work and view, but after all its not that important, just helps your mindset get straight.

My goal is indeed 25lbs at the end of the year.

In total, i lost 45kg (around 100lbs) of excess weight in the past 3 years. I'm the leanest i have been in my life. I'm aiming to have a six pack, and i still need to lose around 5-7kg of fat around my belly & love handles. My genetics & work are shit for this, but i go 4 times a week, 2hs, to lift like a madman. Still, the difference in how people see you & treat you is astonishing. Is getting hard as fuck, as i have been in a caloric deficit for the past 3 years, counting everything i eat & now doing a food rotation just to wake up a bit more my metabolism, but it worth it. Really, is so much work that i don't do it for the womans or the people anymore. I love how i can now use slim fit clothes, how i have visible biceps, and how i'm not a hypocrite, why i don't like fat girls, so i can't be a fat guy right?

Will it make a difference if I study X before the exam?

Yes of course it will. If you don't study for it, it could very well end up on the exam and be the difference between failing and passing.
Put in the work and it will pay off

What makes a fat chick unattractive?

Bro! I need to hit the Gym. Like... now.

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Ghosting in plain sight is so much easier if you weigh a little bit more. I want no part of a relationship unless the women is beyond wealthy and going to pay for everything. Life is so much easier when you do not have to deal with bs drama.

While I agree it's worth it either way, as someone who has done both 25 pounds of LEAN muscle or fat loss is NOT the same thing. 25 pounds fat loss can be achieved by Halloween if you get your ass in gear and learn to diet properly.

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25 pounds of muscle may take you 2 years, with bulk and cut cycles, unless you have experience in strength/conditioning to know what you're doing. I went from 185 to 208 in a recent bulk and never got above 15% body fat. Trying to cut down to single digits body fat (\~195) before bulking again. This all took my maybe a little less than a year and is probably 2 pounds of muscle for every pound of fat.

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That said I'm tall so might take others shorter

more importantly, what does anything matter if you're skinny/fat?

a bit deeper, it's not about what we do, but why and how. Someone skinny/fat doing anything is already a sign that he's doing it badly and for the wrong motives.

TFW already low BF & athletic physique and still zero attention from women

You guys must be good looking :|

I lost 50 pounds over the course of the last year and I’m definitely noticing differences. You tend to just get noticed more when you aren’t a steaming pile of lard. People tend to ignore you when you aren’t pleasing to look at. That goes for everyone, men and women. There’s a very clear difference in the amount of deference and respect you get when you get more fit. Sure, I could get all butthurt about it, but guess what? Fat people don’t like looking at other fat people either!

There is a Chapter in "The Book Of Pook"about how his level of attraction improved as he got bigger. I've gained 45lbs & the way that both men and women treat me is significantly different. The physical transformation also had an affect on me mentally as well.

It is a difference of 25lbs. 100%. It's awful to experience at first, but it's completely true.

"Imagine going through life without knowing what your body can look like at its peak"

To me you're not the same person. You now showed the discipline to lose fat.

Attraction is largely physical.

It all makes sense. Nothing to be angry about

I still think this is more of an US thing.

I live in scandinavia and I've gone from "average fit physique" @ 85kg (~190lbs) to bulked up 110kg (~240lbs) and back to ripped 90kg (~200lbs) @ 10% BF and I haven't noticed too much difference in how girls treat me (altho, when I was 110kg, I seemed to intimidate especially other men). Occasionally I get compliments about my body but they are somewhat rare even tho my physique is at top 1% right now.

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The difference can be as little as 8 lbs (3kg). No. I'm serious.

I was a "Hungry skeleton" IRL who once in a while picked up picking things up and putting them down on regular. Nothing fancy, just Starting Strength and sticking to it for 4 months I went from 66 kg (146 lbs) to 70 kg (154 lbs). At 186 cm (6'1'').

I like to joke that this small change made me go from hungry skeleton computer nerd with bad back to skinny IT professional in the eyes of women I met. And the change of how they were treating me was not because of a "change of attitude" or "self-respect" or any other popular excuse. If anything, it made my self-respect worse, because after 6 months I still felt like a weakling, who began to stall on his gains.

The worst part, the part that made me finally swallow TRP and not spit it back, was that even some of my long time female friends, which had LTR boyfriends at the time and "LJBF'd" me before, began to treat me differently. Nothing ever came of it, but the difference in behavior between "before and after I could squat my body weight" was hard to miss.

It's a bitter-sweet realization.

Long time lurker, first time poster, but this is spot on from my experience. I was chubby/fat in high school and had zero luck with women. I had tons of female friends, but always the best friend, never the boyfriend.

After high school I had a run of bad luck with my health which was fucking horrible (bowel issues). I left the hospital emaciated and was now in a position I needed to gain weight. Working manual labor I ate whatever I wanted and slowly gained muscle and filled out nicely.

I started crushing pussy as soon as I realized women found me attractive. I was shocked at the women I was pulling, they were out of my league before. That thought process changed though, I started treating women like they were lucky to be with me. Any BS and I got rid of them and went after a friend. That attitude combined with the shape I was in was fatal.

There have been ups and downs though. I'm still in great shape, but going bald and trying to develop the confidence to shave my head. Admittedly this has affected my game, but I can work on it.

As a fat guy who fluctuates, I am received better when I'm in better shape

Big and strong attracts rough hoes who are ready and willing and guys who wanna know how to get big. During the day people get out of your way, during night at bars you can stand out to people who want to fight. You stand out with your shirt on, yet disappoint when it's off and people expect a six pack.

Being ripped and fit attracts more reserved/girl next door types and guys that say it's easy to have a six pack if you have no muscle. You look skinny with a shirt on and sexy with your shirt off. Bad thing is you can't take your shirt off everywhere unless you wanna look like a douche. Just an observation I got from having been both body types.

Being average/skinny fat sucks. You don't stand out with your shirt on, you look fat and still have no muscle with your shirt off and you're weak. When it comes to body type, be anywhere except in the middle of the spectrum.

I imagine you'd be angry. How could you treat me this way?! I'm still the same person. What if I lost muscle/gained weight again? Are these people going to be back to treating me as before? Women are ridiculous!

Heres the problem with that whole statement. Your personality is malleable. If you make this massive change, you are not the same person anymore.

Besides that, 25lbs of lean mass gain is a ridiculously huge number. That's years of effort natty. (girls dont want bodybuilder builds. they just want a bit of muscle & leanness. Dudes on the other hand appreciate bodybuilding builds. I chat up big dudes all the time. "Hey bro you look great. What's your program etc etc." So depending on your Kinsey scale you do you bruh) You need 6mos of solid gym time (no fuck arounditis, decent program of choice) to have "sexy" muscles. That's it.

25lbs of fat loss is 2-3mos effort. Ask me how I went from 185 winter bulk to 155 summer body mode this spring.

Yes people treat you differently. Yes you treat people differently yourself. You have changed. Your self-image has changed, therefore your innate image-matching has changed. I scoff at girls I used to think were kinda ok these days. my image- matching has changed.

There are no downsides to positive improvement. Only excuses & whining holding you back.

OP- What is your point here?

I lost 110lbs and it's eye opening how women treat you. I'm also talking about girls that I've known for a while. Post a progress photo and they're sliding into my dm's like crazy.

A huge part of red pill philosophy is that getting/staying fit is so much more then increasing physical attraction. It shows you get shit done. It shows you have urgency to get out of bed and care about yourself. There are literally no reasonable negatives to working out. It's good for mental health, physical health, encourages other positive habits, etc. Unless you have a real health problem that prohibits exercise, you're only giving an excuse and therefore you are weak in every sense of the word.

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I started working out two years ago.

-Two months in: I noticed a slight difference. -Three months: female friends start to notice -Four months: unattractive girls start to hit on me -Six months: attractive girls start to look at me -Nine months: I notice attractive girls checking me out, some come up to talk and they’re friendly

This is where it gets really weird: this whole time, while I’m getting all this attention from girls, I’m really uncomfortable because it conflicts with a lifetime of what I’ve told myself about being ugly to women.

12-14 months: I finally come to accept that women find me attractive. Yes, I had to accept it. Because it ran counter to a lifetime of programming and self-hatred.

24 months: beautiful girls I’m making out with can’t stop telling me how hot I am, as if they can’t believe their luck.

Lifting weights, boys. Just be patient with the results and understand that your insecurities won’t magically disappear once you’re lifting a decent amount but things will get gradually easier.

To take the discussion a step further- I would argue that anyone who is still getting angry or negative feelings about being treated differently on any aspect of their persona (let alone only their physical aspect), is in plain denial.
Why wouldn't you be seen in a more positive light for improving yourself, if only at a physical level.

Given, in an LTR (platonic or otherwise) the other person will know you better than to judge you on physicality alone, and yet a better physicality would always add value. I have gone from 99 pounds to 155 to somewhere in between (174 cm), and like most other goals, it's about priorities.

I stay fit for me. Attracting bitches is a side benefit.

Yet 90% of the attention I get from women is from ugly/fat women. I hardly see any attractive women walking around in my everyday activities. Unfortunate.

The main reason for achieving an elite physique is TRP point 1 is that it can’t be faked. It takes consistent dedication to lifting heavy weights. That appeals to others because you at least have the self discipline to make it a reality.

Losing weight and getting fit was one of the biggest things to give me the red pill.

At first, I wanted to get fit to be more attractive. However, it quickly became a big and very enjoyable part of my life that some how affected a lot of things during each and every day.

Girls I went to high school with would see pictures of me and ask what I was up to over Facebook despite us barely ever talking. They ask if I was single, what I did for work and tell me that I was looking great. At first, the attention was welcomed but I quickly swallowed the red pill because of it.

They wanted what I was in that moment but none appreciated the hard work I put into getting where I was/am. They couldn't comprehend why I counted calories, why I went to the gym at 5am or stopped binge drinking. Yet it was those things that had given the result which now attracted them.

That's what taught me a valuable lesson about good looking women. 98% of them have always been good looking, from their early teens. Due mainly to being active as a child and teen, a good diet administered by parents, their genetics, etc. They didn't actively work for it. Then, when they hit mid 20's all the binge drinking catches up. They likely have quit all the activites they were in during their teens and thus speeding weight gain. But yet, they always see themselves as attractive despite becoming whales because it's what theyve always been.

Noone gives advices to skinny guys. Who visit gyms for years, becoming Bruce Lees but never managing to gain any weight. So sad.

You may find yourself treating others differently in the mere balance of just 25 - 50 - 100 lbs.

For most men 25 lbs is the difference between desirable and sort-of-ok-in-a-good-light.

For most women 25 lbs is the difference between desirable and sweating swampbeast.

I've lost > 110# of fat in 1.5 yrs. and gained muscle and strength and shoulder/chest/back/arm size vs. when i was a doughboy (no pre/post pics, but been doing tape measure of body parts the whole time)

What changed? / What did I learn?

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1) my sphere of influence went from "the group near me, drink in hand" (it was: the women who could hear me speak and sample my wit, see my chubby cherub like handsome face, and such), to the whole damn room when I walk in. What they see: no more cherub, now a strong jaw line and the shoulder-to-waist V shape I've cultivated. Sure, the face to face skills are still there. And when I'm up close I now get to watch them play with their hair more and turn hips/shoulders to me more, but the biggest difference is the "at a distance" IOI's and double takes and tells from 20', 40', 60' away. Before I was one more fat sack-of-shit in a sea of dad-bods. No more. Being fit puts you ahead of 75% of other men before you even say a word. Being really fit puts you in the top 5-10%.

2) Women are visually stimulated, too. Sure they may read porn stories more than guys (read "a billion wicked thoughts" for more info) but to think they're non-visually turned-on is utter BS. My outward fitness improvements (specifically: musculature, BF% (I've gone from above 40% to below 15%), skin tone/coloration/glow, cardio (used to get winded doing 2 flights of stairs) - all of these improvements exude: good genes, strong drive, ability, virility, discipline, strong Testosterone levels, strength strength strength. What women subconsciously desire in a man.

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In one sense, at first, it was a little annoying (gee, i'm still the same guy, why give me attention now?) but I soon realized, I'm not the same guy. So that was simply a defense mechanism my (old) ego had built for protecting itself. I was hamstering myself. Examples of how I changed:

• I went from a 50+" waist to a 32" waist and my cock literally grew 2". With my same LTR, so she didn't change, I did: I have to be careful not to go balls deep in certain positions or it's too much/stop time. When I was >300#, I didn't have that "problem"
• I went from someone who couldn't run a city block to someone who does a 10K on a whim with friends when they're in town.
• I went from someone who dressed like Steve Correll in "Crazy Stupid Love" to Jake Gyllenthal's character (my abs aren't Jake level yet, but I'm working on it...), I look fooking good now though, losing 100# means buying new clothes, so go for it.
• I went from my LTR literally not caring about when I was out with friends on on business trips (because who would look at me/want me anyways) to now Dread based motivation in me staying interested in her, so she's actually trying to please me - for first time since courtship 2 decades ago - in many ways.
• With NMMNG and WISNIFG I am a stronger person in dealing with others and understanding self (it has caused conflict with some family members, but break some eggs to make an omelette), and strangers treat you better when you're fit. They literally have contempt for you when you're obese.

So, maybe 25# will do it for you, maybe it won't. I can say 100# has been life changing for me and I assume some number lower than that can do the same for others.

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A lot of how you’re treated comes with how you look. It’s the simple truth. A 6’5 230lb shredded dude will get treated better and with much more respect than your 5’4 skinnyfat dude at 150lb.

You could also look at the difference between being a very attractive male and a not so attractive male is a couple inches in height and a few millimeters in the facial structure.

Look, mating is such a superficial process. The more we see it as such, the more we become indifferent and detached from it.

So I should do SARMs after gaining 15 pounds of muscle.... BET

Surely you get fit and find out? I can assure you its bollocks but I would implore you to find out for yourself.

You’re lying to yourself if you think you treat a fit girl and a chubby girl the same way, why would you expect them to act differently

What every skinny guy should know by Pook.

attention from chicks is great and all, but what i really love about my new swole life is constantly getting sized up by construction workers and chollo bodybuilders.

This is a very interesting perspective. Good quality post.

This is a refreshingly realistic and concrete way of perceiving things, one that most people wouldn't understand unless they had lost a ton of fat or gained a ton of muscle.

I've lost 45+ lb this year and, boy, it does make a difference. Does it bother me that I got no attention before? Hell no. I'm trying to get in the pants of fit girls, and I have rejected fat girls, even some I like as friends. It's just the rules of the game. Thank the gods I found about them this year and not in 5 years. No point in crying over the spilt milk.