[Mod] Discussing RP ideas with our detractors. | TheRedPill

There are multiple efforts by those who chose the other pill to attempt to engage RP members in discussion of our theories. Their goal is to use hyperbole, dishonest debate tactics, and shame in order to quote us out of context so they can fuel their circlejerk. If you willfully bring this nonsense into the RP network you will be removed from it.

Also, any discussion of TRP with radfems is discouraged. If you honestly believe they are open to any idea that would fundamentally challenge their chosen ideology - you're delusional.

Fair warning.

-SH

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[deleted] 12y ago

Um... I agree with the radfems, but BP's are our brothers, our cousins, our friends.

They just have not seen the light.

AbraxianAeon 12y ago

I love this subreddit because it's more sane than most others, such as r/mensrights which think they can somehow have a reasoned discussion with the opposition that hates them for who they are.

SoftHarem 12y ago

Both groups think they can make any decision they want without consequences. I do not understand how people go through their lives making consistently poor decisions and then want the world to accept them regardless of value.

the_letter_P 12y ago

I am always confused by these people who seem to want to be able to 'debate' with the radfems/bluepillers, etc

It seems like every subreddit in this place has to be an 'ideology' or a political party or something. We shouldn't really be bothered about trying to 'win' people over to our way of thinking. As far as I am concerned, the information is there for those who genuinely want to learn what we are about. Other than that I don't waste my time on trying to 'convert' people, or proving to some random internet dweeb that I am 'right'. Its their loss after all.

I'd rather this place had 10,000 users who were genuine redpillers with high value content to contribute than have us contributing our time onto winning more 'converts' and proving that we are right.

I just imagine I have found a subreddit that discusses that fire is hot. I look at the information, see it benefits my life greatly, and move on with my life of heat and well cooked food. I wouldn't then spend time 'debating' with people who don't believe that its hot. I'm just like "well, whatever" and go back to my warm house smiling.

I think anyone who has truly adopted Red Pill Principles should not be in the business of debating anyone. They should be spending their time on improving their lives, and maybe every now and then sharing their own learning with the Red Pill brethren. Maybe even answer questions of newbies who are looking to learn more. That it the best use of your time on here. Why spend time debating someone radfem, when you could be using that time on here helping out a newbie who genuinely wants to learn at /r/askTRP? You'll have a much better chance of getting a 'convert' that way, and it may actually make a difference.

I mean, what's the best that could happen? You spend 3 hours debating some white knight and he concedes you are correct? Then you never see that person again and you realise you could have spent that 3 hours at the gym or reading a good book or chatting up women.

I try not to talk too much in "alpha and beta", but I must say; A real Alpha doesn't waste time on convincing others he is right. He lives his life in the knowledge he is right and doesn't worry about those who don't believe him. Do you think the guy who is fucking hotter girls than he has ever had in his life is worrying about if the losers on thebluepill agree with him or not?

rebuildingMyself 12y ago

Debating radfems is a waste of your time, which is probably their intent. As long as you're pulling your hair out trying to convince some fat troll in a dorm room paid for by daddy you're not out improving yourself. At the end of your life, when you look back, will you be glad you spent three hours looking up scientific papers to convince some feminist you're right (being rewarded with a downvote brigade for your efforts) or pushing yourself harder in your own pursuits?

Overshadows 12y ago

I'm a little concerned. I like TRP; but I also like "NAWALT" and poking at weak 'TRP' statements. I appreciate the perspective that TRP accepts reality and goes from there: women have a specific nature, and so do men. There are universal laws and truths to human interaction. Love it.

How does TRP propose to handle its own members whose discussion are so ridiculous or lacking in substance, that it breeds dissent in the community? Disagreeing with content in these posts seems to make me 'someone who is shaming' others... when really we can all get closer to truth by talking with each other. Agreement alone doesn't build a good community.

-1

SoftHarem 12y ago

RP members disagreeing with RP members is what we want. BP members disagreeing is what we expect, yet also completely irrelevant.

ss_camaro 12y ago

but I also like "NAWALT"

This subreddit is for you! r/NAWALT

[deleted] 12y ago

I'm going to play devil's advocate here.

You'll rarely ever convince people you debate with to change their mind.

What you WILL do, though, is get people on the sidelines to think, especially if you are calm, show your facts, and aren't an asshole.

Not that engaging in this with radfems or the folks in TBP is a good idea, but it's something to think about doing in small doses.

3MinuteHero 12y ago

This is a good point, one that I have in mind whenever I engage in a serious argument. You're talking to one person who is stubborn enough in their ways to be loud about it (just like you), but you've got potentially dozens if not hundreds of others also reading what you say. Talk to them without them knowing it.

[deleted] 12y ago

Also, any discussion of TRP with radfems is discouraged. If you honestly believe they are open to any idea that would fundamentally challenge their chosen ideology - you're delusional.

I agree. You're won't change the mind of a feminist bigot by reasoning with them.

But you can change the mind of people witnessing the discussion. And at the very least, you help create an atmosphere where people feel comfortable challenging those bullies.

If you willfully bring this nonsense into the RP network you will be removed from it.

What does this mean? Will people only be banned if they specifically invite feminist bigots to this subreddit? Or is this rule more broad?

For example:

About a month ago, I noticed /u/Bluepillschool conflating self-defense law with provocation law in a discussion on /r/thebluepill. I decided to politely correct her, thinking my input would at the very least be non-controversial (and perhaps even welcome).

If you're curious, here's a non-participatory link to the thread.

She went nuts, and despite my politeness and correctness throughout the long discussion, I was downvoted repeatedly. I wouldn't be surprised if some of their members pored through my post history and brigaded some of the discussions I was having in this subreddit.

redpillschool Admin 12y ago

Every time somebody stirs the pot, we have to ban 10 more throwaways.

We're obviously not going to be nuts about it (except maybe nutz), but at the same time, remember that when you participate over there, you're feeding them the drama they crave.

Hormander 12y ago

And the attention they need

Ill_mumble_that 12y ago

reasoning with them.

This is not possible.

Nutz76 12y ago

this. when someone is being unreasonable, by definition they cannot be reasoned with.

SoftHarem 12y ago

We discourage users from posting in TBP, period. We ban if any of the fallout from posting in TBP gives us more work.

YouDislikeMyOpinion 12y ago

I have supported the mod team on all of their stances, but this is the first time that I am hearing about this one. I understand the reasoning behind it.

Sometimes, what's said in /r/TRP is something that I don't agree with, and something that I would call "ridiculous", and I'm not afraid to say that. Sometimes, it's just misunderstood.

A good example of something that I don't agree with would be: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1kjp1f/suing_for_mumumoney/cbpph1w

I go on /r/thebluepill when I feel like it, and I don't need to justify going there to anyone; it doesn't stop me from being RP. Frankly, some of their commentary is downright hilarious, and I enjoy reading it.

/r/askwomen bans you if you post a link to /r/askwomen or any /r/askwomen thread. Their reasoning behind this is that other subs linking to them gives their mod team more work.

What I've noticed is that some people in positions of power (Mod, Site admin) in the PUA spectrum of the internet have MAJOR power issues. Fortunately, we have mods that are pretty awesome and don't suffer from these issues.

I definitely don't want this subreddit to be moderated by people that will ban someone because they feel like it, or because they are on a power trip and scrutinize the most minuscule part of someone's post just to ban them into oblivion.

Once someone is banned from this subreddit based SOLELY on their actions on another subreddit, especially when they follow all the rules within the TRP subreddit, it sets a line in the sand.

I don't support /r/TRP posters being banned for following the rules within the subreddit while doing what they want outside of the subreddit. I personally won't let the TRP subreddit cross into my life outside of this subreddit in a way that I didn't previously agree to.

I do support /r/TRP posters being banned for threatening the stability of this subreddit.

Are we threatening the survival of the subreddit by posting in /r/TBP? Is it really too much?

I also support /r/TRP posters being banned for making too much work for the admins which ends up threatening the moderation of this subreddit.

So are we threatening the moderation of this subreddit? Is it really too much if someone posts something in /r/TBP, and 3 new throwaways are created by /r/TBP users to damage this subreddit? Are we really that fragile?

Am I here to pout? No. I'm here to offer solutions.

Solution 1: No one gets banned for what they write in another subreddit unless it's threatening the stability or moderation of this subreddit. In this case, the moderation would have to be strong and able to withstand most forces.

Solution 2: The same as solution 1, except the moderation of this subreddit would only be able to withstand medium force.

Solution 3: We don't want our mods to have extra work. But we also don't want users to be immediately banned for following all the rules within the subreddit while also wanting to post in /r/TBP (assuming their post would create a fallout). We deal with them in an adult manner, and send them a message about how their post is creating more work for the mods at /r/TRP, and we ask them to not do that. Then the /r/TRP mods ban as they see fit after this point.

I was banned from that subreddit about 4 months ago. Had a long discussion with the mod body of it. At the time I didn't realize what the subreddit was, but I quickly found out.

It's nothing but trolls. No better than /r/gameoftrolls when it was around. I mean who the fuck has the kind of time that they put into following us unless they either are jealous or.. I don't even understand it. Maybe its a feminist thing, they just want to destroy everything they possibly can that isn't pro-women. We aren't even anti-women, we are just pro-men.

HumanSockPuppet 12y ago

In the mind of a feminist, the "social engineering competition" is a zero sum game. Any victory for men is a loss for women.

RedBigMan 12y ago

We aren't even anti-women, we are just pro-men.

In their eyes if you are pro-men you are anti-women. You cant reason with them which is why the mods are telling people to avoid TBP entirely.

VZPurp 12y ago

They think like that because they project how they think onto everyone else. For example, they are pro-women and anti-men; therefore, anyone who is pro-men MUST be anti-women, because that's the internal logic they use.

Read posts by women carefully. They will likely think of the situation in terms of themselves. I reply and point it out in my comments, and have done so a couple times over the past few days.

Recent example

Hormander 12y ago

You can't have a rational discussion with a women so why wasting your time?

Whisper 12y ago

I think a good rule of thumb is "debate until your adversary starts using dishonest debating tactics. Then mock or ignore."

For example, this is a productive exchange. Notice his dead silence at the end. That might just be the sound of seeds growing.

Now, there's no point arguing with the fractally wrong, and we certainly don't want the place crowed with trolls.

However, I strongly object to the phrase "red pill network", because to me it rings of the SRS "fempire". Yes, we have unpopular ideas. But creating a walled garden to protect those ideas from dissent is repugnant to the notion of free inquiry in pursuit of truth, which is what the notion of a red pill is supposed to be about.

Sure, this is our clubhouse, and anyone who wants to argue with us can and should be pitched out if they don't act civilized and follow the rules of debate. But just as men are forged and tempered in the fires of competition, so must our ideas be forged and refined in the fires of conflict.

This applies, however, to debaters in here, and to those with other views in reddit in general, however. There's no point in engaging with thebluepill, SRS, radfems, etc.

redpillschool Admin 12y ago

I think softharem's contention here is that when debating with bluepillers, they always start off with dishonest debate tactics.

I have to agree, after just one day on this new debate sub, it's already a pile of trash.

Whisper 12y ago

Debating with cultural Marxists is like playing chess with a pigeon. It doesn't understand the rules of the game, so you can't even get far enough in for the pigeon to lose.

However, there's a lot of people, mostly women, who call themselves "feminists" more because they are afraid not to than because they believe in patriarchy theory. They've been taught that you're a feminist or a woman-hater, and those are the only two options, and they believed that.

Engaging with them can be productive. I've found that if they are exposed to an anti-feminist view of the world that actually contains some incentives for women, then they see a viable alternative to paying lip service to feminism, and some of them just stop.

I won't even touch the debate subs, though. Those are just bait for people looking for a fight, not an understanding.

[deleted] 12y ago

[--removed--]

YouDislikeMyOpinion 12y ago

I agree with you 100%.

puck_mar1n 12y ago

TBP was made just to mock TRP so I suspect that interacting with them in their native environment would be about as much fun as driving a nail into your dick. However, I do think it's important to hear and consider both sides to every story.

[deleted] 12y ago

[--removed--]

SoftHarem 12y ago

Cool. Don't make work for the mod staff or you're gone.

YouDislikeMyOpinion 12y ago

Do you feel that TRP users are disposable?

SoftHarem 12y ago

Anyone who breaks the rules is disposable.

Amuro_Rey 12y ago

There is no need to supplicate towards or engage people that would as soon rather you be a beta incel for the rest of your life, in my humblest of opinions.

IllimitableMan 12y ago

The thing about blue pill girls is they're jealous that their cats get laid more than they do.

When you're so wretched humans can't love you, turn to cats, they're too dumb to realise you're worthless. :)

rebuildingMyself 12y ago

Cats that are only with you because you trap them in your house. Open the door and 90% of them would piss off without a moment's hesitation.

RedBigMan 12y ago

Cats that are only with you because you trap them in your house. Open the door and 90% of them would piss off without a moment's hesitation.

Much like most men in a marriage.

Whisper 12y ago

Sounds like you've never had a cat.

The problem with cat ladies is the ladies, not the cats. Ordinary people with cats understand that cats, like dogs, are animals. They're capable of affection and other emotions, but ultimately, they are not people. So you keep them around because they are entertaining or relaxing to have about, regard them as possessions and not peers, and get rid of them when they get old and have some expensive health problem or other.

To be clear is posting on both TRP and TBP being only discouraged or is it no longer allowed? I guess my question is will I get banned if I continue to post to TheBluePill?

My belief is that TRP gets a lot of things right and TBP gets a lot of things right. The truth is somewhere in between. And so I'm subbed to both and post to both. I want to hear both sides, participate where I feel I have something to add, and decide for myself what to believe. I understand that screaming matches just clog the subs and lower the content, but the threat of being banned for posting in TBP sounds like a call to pick sides and I'm more about moderation.

YouDislikeMyOpinion 12y ago

I want to hear both sides, participate where I feel I have something to add, and decide for myself what to believe.

You are exactly the type of person that I was fighting for in my post above, link: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1kychx/mod_discussing_rp_ideas_with_our_detractors/cbulvix

I really hope that there is some middle ground that can be reached between the users like you who want to participate where they want and the mods and users of TRP who don't want more work.

Here is an attack plan that /r/TBP will use against TRP users.

TRP user #10433 posts in TRP
TRP user #10433 posts in TPB
TPB users go apeshit bananas in TRP, linking TRP user #10433 to their posts in an effort to get TRP user #10433 banned.
TRP mods ban TRP user #10433 for creating more work.

SoftHarem 12y ago

Discouraged. If you create work for the mod team you will be banned.

redpilldude 12y ago

I personally don't understand why anyone would try to have a debate with a Rad Fem. They are close-minded bigots. They cannot be reasoned with, and no amount of logic will convince them to swallow the Red Pill.

Zackcid 12y ago

Just careful with the censorship and banning. Are we really so weak that we have to silence mild trolls and opposing views? I've been seeing many posts that have "deleted" under them lately, I woulda been interested to know what was said.

You can know for certainty that any user you ban will probably run over to TBP and fuel up that fanclub even more.

nicethingyoucanthave 12y ago

Debate with detractors is discouraged? If you can't defend your beliefs then why have them?

I agree with you that we aren't going to change the opinions of the idiots at The Blue Pill (more on that below) but that's not the point. The point is two-fold (1) that the people who are on the fence need to see objections countered and (2) that debate allows us to cut out the chaff from our own views - it hones us.

I was actually banned from TheBluePill after this hilarious exchange with a mod there in which she claimed that if a child is born from your sperm, you always have a financial obligation.

I pointed out that she this doesn't apply to sperm banks.

But anyway, I can't post there anymore with this account, so I'll just use alts. That's the way it works on reddit. Banning me only accomplishes one thing: you disconnect my future posts from my past posts which prevents anyone from holding me accountable for my words.

You're only hurting yourself by banning. Please don't make rules that you cannot enforce.

I suggest an alternative: ban sarcasm. I'm serious. Welcome blue pill idiots in but require that they make their points without the laziness of sarcasm. I think you'll find that they aren't articulate enough to do that.

With that said, I do agree that we aren't going to change their opinions, and I have a great example of that. The Blue Pill narrative is that we hate women and are bitter over past relationship failures. So I posted this thread which asked how we really feel about past relationships. The thread is highly upvoted and full of TRPers saying they have always been happy in relationships with women.

In spite of that, TheBluePill linked to my post with the headline: "I need The Red Pill because I didn't get anal sex!" - They will turn absolutely anything, including me saying that I was happily married and am still friends with my ex-wife, into a circle-jerk that aligns with their narrative.

They're the ones that hate.

I went back to TheBluePill with an alt and tried to correct their mischaracterization but they still wouldn't listen - they basically accused me of being a rapist, saying that "pressure women into things they don't want to do"

So yeah, that's TheBluePill in a nutshell.

-3

redpilldude 12y ago

The point is two-fold (1) that the people who are on the fence need to see objections countered and (2) that debate allows us to cut out the chaff from our own views - it hones us.

People who are on the fence about swallowing the Red Pill aren't Rad Fems. Rad Fems are psychos.