Have you ever thought that the "juice isn't work the squeeze" and been tempted to go black pill? Believe it or not I have had phases in my life where I had loads of dates / options and it was cool but part of me thinks that I don't care enough to set that up again.
Maybe its just tiredness or depression talking I don't know but sometimes I think I just don't give enough of a fuck. All this "she isnt yours its just your turn" and "never ever get married" stuff makes me wonder why I bother at all.
First-light 2 2d ago
This is perhaps a very simplistic way to look at things but to me black pill is just red pill without hope. Everything looks black in the darkness of depression and hopelessness.
So she is not yours its your turn, so marriage is a bad bet, so that is a pain but its not the end of the world. Saying that Its like saying "Winter comes along and kills all the tomato plants I grow. I will never eat tomatoes again now I know they die on you when you have done nothing wrong". You won't get any help being upset about the turning of the seasons. Do you like tomatoes? then grow some, buy some, beg some borrow some steal some but don't get depressed that tomato plants are frost tender or give up on cooking with them. Similarly don't give up on enjoying women just because you know that they are not all faithful and kind, honest and able to see past surface impressions of value. Not everything is ideal.
There is always a resource cost to getting female attention. It may not be worth it in many cases. That's OK though because if you wanted it enough, you would just do those things. Only a depressed man would not. If you are genuinely depressed, try to fix that rather than worrying about the black pill.
GeorgeIII 1 2d ago
One thing that drives men towards hopelessness in the game of women is seeing little to no positive result after what is, at least self-perceived as, a significant amount of time or effort spent, whether on one specific woman or women in general.
For men, directly or not, acquiring women (1 or more) is probably the single largest life/money/time/energy expense they will pay.
After being able to fund their own base lifestyle, men try to earn more to get more/better women or to raise a family (women again). Most men, even if they don’t admit it, even if on this post they won’t admit it, go to the gym and eat healthy to improve their odds with women. Men obviously learn game to get with women. Heck, men addicted to pornography quit it because they would rather have real sex with real women. I myself am in the process of learning how to dance, at least in part, to get more/better women.
So if a man tries to improve in some or all of these things, and still sees little or no improvement in results after months or even years, it’s no surprise they want to give up. For almost any other skill/attribute, you expect to see an improvement after a year of effort (new sport, starting a business, developing a social network).
Coupled with how most families made in the US are expected to end up divorced and broken, and even “success” (getting a wife and kids) sounds like a poor result. It’s essentially “the juice ain’t worth the squeeze” but on a meta level, rather than on one specific woman.
Imagine you are a total loser today, and after 3 years of red pill self improvement, you will only be able to pull a 3/10 or worse, and she still wouldn’t respect you because you are 5’8”. If you thought that was your ultimate fate after those 3 years, it might really be better to resigning yourself to just masturbating all day. (I’m not trying to assert this stuff with the 3/10 is actually correct, just the mindset that is becoming more common today.)
Without spending all this time on red pill self improvement and all that, a single man doesn’t need a whole lot to survive decently. Small apartment to rent, PC, a hobby or 2, and a few male friends in a similar boat. And in terms of effort this is obviously much easier than the full gym-game-money-diet-date-rejection grind. You have to really enjoy at least part of that grind for the self improvement loop to be sustainable.
This is the real danger of having shittier women/family outcomes to society at a meta level. If all men collectively became hopeless black pill, there would be no more excess effort, excess production to sustain and grow society. No businesses would be started, we would all be fat pigs eating pizza on a couch, who never go outside and talk to people.
I personally think such a pointless, lazy existence is greater torture than the grind. And I believe many men, including many here, agree. But I hope you can see where the black pill doomer mentality comes from.
I’m also very interested in seeing how the invention of AI girlfriends/sexbots changes society.
As a similar example, we had a “body positivity” movement started essentially as a cope for people (women mostly lol) who know they are unhealthy and unattractive. Body positivity was an excuse for these people to not work out or diet and absolve themselves of responsibility for their issues. But the moment this Ozempic stuff comes out, it’s all the height and the “body positive” people are out here taking it in droves.
AI girlfriends could end fruitless “juice squeezing” for lower SMV men entirely. But then their contributions to society might also disappear…
-End Rant
First-light 2 1d ago
I agree with you. I think there will always be some men for whom the juice is not worth the squeeze. Identifying when you are one of those is a great first step to finding meaning in your life. It is bound to be a painful process but if you do not lose faith in yourself, there is still a lot left to hope for.
There really is no point for some guys in chasing after women. They may be able to have some interactions (especially paid interactions) but they are unlikely to ever gain anything worthwhile from women. This does not mean they need to lose hope in life or feel the world is bleak. Women are only a part of the world.
It is also fair to say that actually many of the lower SMV men could still find a niche, if they optimised themselves for that niche.
However it goes, men don't get anywhere without backing themselves. Whatever hurdles you face in life men have to keep running and jumping. The black pill is a curl up and die sort of approach and not only is a man worth more than that, but also a woman is never worth getting that upset over. We often want what we can't have.
I have had 26 non stop years of women and children of school age in my house. I tell people that when I grow up (when they have all grown up) I am going to be an incel. I think I might well conclude that for me for some time at least the juice was not worth the squeeze. I want to explore my own interests. The grass is always greener and some guys who are stuck on one side of the fence never know how little they are missing. There is a lot to life without women and of course what these guys don't know is that once you get on top of life and start feeling things are sweet, a woman is almost sure to turn up and want to spoil your peace.
Dxmx99 1d ago
"Black pill" is pretty much the denial stage of RP. Up to you to make it or break.
Frame things in a way that benefits you.
Dont: "girls just want a tall guy with abs"
Do: "I dont hit my head off the top of doors. Life's good."
You dont need women or their opinions to be the focal point of your satisfaction in life. That's draining. You'll never be happy.
Confidence trumps all.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3d ago
FYI black pill drivel is not going to be tolerated here so keep it to this at a maximum
That being said, just because marriage is a bad deal for men and most women will keep trying to find new guys after a while doesn't mean you can't be happy on your own and love women for who they are, not what they can never be
Stop acting like a doom scroller and enjoy your life. What is with this over-invested attitude. Does your life revolve around women?
randomguy7766 3d ago
Thanks for your reply What do you mean by stop acting like a doomscroller? What do doomscrollers do?
Why do you think most women try to find new guys? Because of hypergamy right?
GeorgeIII 1 3d ago
Black pill is not just giving up, the giving up part is just the conclusion a lot of guys make when they are unwilling to improve themselves. It’s about accepting that some things are unfair in the world, and cannot be changed.
Things that are black pill: accepting women prefer tall guys and you can’t change your height, accepting that having no experience in your teens or 20s with girls will make it harder, etc.
The things above can’t be changed if you are that tall, or if you didn’t get any action in your 20s, but that doesn’t stop you from improving (game, gym, meeting women in your 30s, etc).
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3d ago
No, blackpill is taking that info and deciding that it's hopeless.
Red Pill acknowledges those obstacles, but knows you can mitigate them in other ways.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3d ago
"The juice isn't worth the squeeze" is a MGTOW maxim. The blackpill version of it would be more like:
.
If you're tired and burnt out, take a break. Why do something you derive no benefit from?
ogrilla99 18h ago
This right here. Hit the nail on the head.
It's one thing to look at your situation, assess what it would cost you (time, effort, resources, etc) to attract the type of women you want, and decide you don't want to spend it, and be happy with choosing other things over having a woman. That's MGTOW and I fully respect that decision. No one is a lesser man if he decides of his own accord not to have women in his life, as long as he knows that that option exists, he just chooses not to pursue it.
Blackpill is something different. It's acknowledging that you have an intense desire to attract women, but believing that there is nothing you can do to attract them. And the reason why this is BS is not just because there's always something you can do (whether you want to or not is up to you, but the option always exists). But because this way of thinking is usually just a defense against changing. Blackpill'ers don't want to do the work to get what they want (women), but hide that by thinking no amount of work would get them that, and anyone who even tries is just a fool. It's laziness and learned helplessness disguised as wisdom. And it's 100% wrong.
There was a blackpill'er around here maybe a year ago and it was funny to watch the extent he'd try to justify how nothing would ever work. I tried to pare it down to the simple advice of exercising and lifting, saying that even if it doesn't attract a woman, it will improve your health, so at least acknowledge that this is one thing he could do in his life to improve it, and he literally dug up some article about juggling that argued that too much exercise could be detrimental to becoming a good juggler, and used that to say why any exercise is useless. I wish I could find it again (@Vermillion-RX is there a way of finding past comments? That part of the profile page never worked for me). It would be funny if it wasn't so depressing the extent people would go to convince themselves that nothing could ever work and therefore, they shouldn't change anything about their life (that they acknowledge they are miserable in).
What you're currently experiencing seems to be two different things feeding on each other. First, if you're depressed or worn out, then take a break. People go into "monk mode" all the time for many reasons e.g. a recent breakup, other stress in life that you need to address first, whatever. No one says you either pursue women 100% of the time or else you can never do it again. No shame in focusing on something else when you have to / want to.
Second, it seems you're also saying you're not sure the quality of women is worth the effort it takes to attract them. So even if you weren't depressed or tired, you're still questioning whether the effort it takes is worth the woman you'll get. Only you can answer this question of course, but there are high quality women out there. Sure, there are a lot fewer than we'd like there to be, and competition for them is intense. And you need to decide (when you're ready) whether you want to pursue this or not. But they are out there, and if you put in the hard work, you can find them, and it can be worthwhile. But you have to decide if that juice is worth the squeeze.
randomguy7766 2d ago
I think most of my life has been doing things I get no or little benefit from
Musicgoon78 3 2d ago
Sounds like a terrible way to live bro. Maybe stop that?
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2d ago
Then why are you doing them?
What do you actually want out of life?
randomguy7766 2d ago
I dont know always chasing a fix or solution I guess.
Musicgoon78 3 2d ago
If you want to quit go for it. Nothing wrong with being voluntarily celibate. It's not for me .
The question I really would ask is why do you want to associate with toxic losers? That to me is a bad idea.