Hey everyone, I’m here for your advice to turn my current situation it a one that is better for me.
TL;DR: I moved in, invested heavily, sex is scarce, and she’s lied multiple times about meeting an older “wine friend.” I don’t want to police my partner; I want honesty and desire. I’m leaning toward accepting her offer of sexual openness (I can see other people) and if that doesn't change anything (spark desire & attraction & raise my value in her mind, a bit of jealously) moving out, making myself rare (remove convenience, but be than also only available in the "good & fun" moment) or straight breakup.
Me/LTR context
2 years dating, ~1 year official LTR. I (M37) moved into her place after her (F34) roommate left. I help a lot (dog care, logistics, small money stuff, errants - to make her live easier because she had a hard time - depression ...). I’m stable/boring (behavior & fianancials ~ earn well, spend on nothing fancy - still no stingy regularly take her out to dinner) and low-drama. I have sexual needs. She says the pill kills her libido. Sex has been rare. Her past is “adventurous.” I didn’t care; if anything I wanted a partner who’s sexually open - with me. She makes a shitty day better by giving me a hug or just be there with me. (But too often in such movement the answer is "It's hot" or "I need some space")
The breaking trust (timeline)
Early this year: She floated trips to cities where past guys live (“just visiting,” “cheap Chromecast for there,” "I like to travel" etc.). After one of the trips I said the pattern felt off. She offered the phone; I checked (hesitated, then did it). I found freshly deleted messages I could recover. On that trip (with her sister) She’d arranged a “movie night” with an old fling (personal relationship - because he help her get her dog); it became dinner. Fallout: “You accused me,” “you looked through my phone.” We talked it out. I set the boundary: I don’t police you; I do require no lying.
A month ago: Said she had a work wine tasting. Sister’s comments and logistics didn’t add up (going in heals up a high mountain, midnight lift with “kids and dogs” in the car from the partner of a colleague?). I checked again (this time without asking; I didn’t want the “deleted” issue repeat). Found she’d been meeting an older guy from tastings for regular walks (when she was out walking the dog); dinner that night was with him, not work. Confronted; she confirmed. I repeated my boundary: see whoever friends thats ok; don’t lie because this makes it something you want hide from me - and than I have to assume its something bad for me.
Last week: I was at my parents helping them for the day, also sick (and she doesn't enjoy me sick and my mood). She said she was with a (female) friend and even sent the friend’s dog pic. Hours of silence despite saying she's super exited and wanted later updates on the discussions with my family. Called her once, she didn't pick up. Later message phone was on the charger, I called are then. When she finally picked up, her story and location visuals didn’t match (she said she was at the friend and they walked and she could pick up because of that, and when she wanted to show me her outfit she really liked - I picked up that she was coming from the direction of train station, and aparently she just made a large detour). I didn’t snoop this time. My read: she likely saw the older wine guy again. I assume no physical cheating; I do assume another lie. In any case I will directly tell her how I feel about this and see. But I also don't want to appear crazy and weak.
More Context
When I checked the phone A past fling texted her after a year: wanted a date. Her reply: “She is flattered." "logistics would be difficult.” I wasn’t mentioned, and it was also no clear no. To a friend she said the relationship felt “boring” (ok this was while I was injured and not exactly fun). She said multiple times I’m “not the guy she wanted, but the guy she needs.” She’s improved a lot with me (weight loss, depression better). She’s floated that I could seek sex elsewhere - she knows its important for me and doesn't want to deprive me of this because of her low sex drive because of the pill. Affection is inconsistent (“it’s hot,” “I need space” on the couch, etc.). We’re different: she likes travel and novelty; I like building and work. I want crazy sex with my partner - even though I have a hard time going out of myself with her but its something I would wish to develop with her; but she at least doesn't want to have it with me or its the pill.
My thoughts
- I’m not trying to be her parole officer. I don’t require check-ins or permission. I expect my partner to have their own moral compass and want to trust in that; but I get frustrated when I catch lies - especially when I explicitly reassured her that she should not worry to meet her friend whoever they might be, but don't make it something shady by lying about it & make up fake cover stories.
- I did check her phone twice (once with permission, once not). That’s on me. I’m not doing it again. But the pattern I uncovered was real: secret meets + cover stories.
- I’m aware I’ve over-invested (moved in, dog duties, logistics). My attention clearly doesn’t create the same charge as “silver fox” wine guy and especially the fling that message her - I know he intreques her still today in ways aparently I don't. Because she only experience him in the fun moments, but not the boring every day situations.
My goals
I want to become more attractive to her and maybe stop being the convenient provider/roommate. And either get a sexual LTR that actually desires me - or stop LTR’ing someone who lies and doesn’t want sex with me.
What I’m considering
- Move out to end the “roommate/provider” dynamic and restore distance. Keep dating her only if behavior matches words. - But I assume that she would see move out = break up.
- Accept her offer of sexual openness while staying LTR and test if abundance + preselection reignites desire/ (even some for jealously?) - and that I'm worth more than convinience. My experience from the past - I'm just not the guy from the look & lifestyle I have that is directly attractive for woman for such arguments.
- Hard boundary: “One more lie and I’m out.” No threats, just consequence. Then actually walk if it happens.
- Clean breakup now. No drama, no post-mortem.
- Demote LTR to casual (plates). Date other women. She can keep seeing “friends” honestly - no lies, no exclusivity claims.
Question:
- Given the repeated lying + rather dead bedroom, I lean towards accepting the offer of sexual openness, even getting her involved asking for help with the profile and using her "experience"? But I'm not sure if that is really a good idea.
- Or is move out + demote the correct first move to regain frame? Or go straight to breakup?
- If I stay, what exact rules/consequences would you set? (“No lying” is table stakes, but how do you enforce without playing detective?)
- And most importantly: Has anyone successfully converted this dynamic into a high-desire LTR after creating abundance (dating others, preselection, moving out)? What actually worked?
- Any blind spots where I’m still supplicating or chasing validation?
No-Stress-Cat 3d ago
Okay, Captain Save-a-Ho. First step is to move out. Get your own place. After that, build a harem.
cundardunfinished 3d ago
This is sad. Look man I stopped at the part where you read her messages meeting another guy for dinner. This is over. Early this year? Stop wasting your time.
You need to go to the gym and get fit and get other options so you aren't so desperately clinging to this woman as your only source of intimacy. Read the sidebar
n0thing 2d ago
This is sad bro, you should have dignity and leave now...
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 2d ago
NOOOOOOO!!!
This always, ALWAYS works in the woman's favor and against yours. It always means she has several alternative dicks picked out and lined up. Whereas for your part you have to work to get into a woman's pants then work harder to keep the plate spinning on a part time basis.
The solution to your dilemma is to withdraw from your overinvstment and overcommitment to this woman who is obviously not reciprocating it. No announcement, no drama, just set about lining up your own place to move on to, and remain focused on this new mission.
You'll likely find she suddenly gets really interested in you again as she senses the imminent loss of her pay-pig and doormat. Maybe take advantage of sex thus offered but don't rekindle any sense of commitment. Main problem with going for the sex is her playing the I'm Pregnant card.
Bottom line, pack your bags with the remnants of your dignity and move on!!! This woman has already checked out of any commitment to you.
We've probably all been in those shoes at some point.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 2d ago
I second this as strongly as possible, and anyone who follows the discussion threads over on the trp.red side of the site will know that Menty and I rarely agree on anything.
OP @AlexFromEurope I advise you to consider the following:
sunk cost fallacy
@mattyanon had a recent post about "stop trying to "make it work" which I advise you to read
Redpillpusher 2d ago
I will waste some time 2 give you some advice you probably won't take because you're such a mark but here it is. The 1st thing I noticed is that it appears that you think that you have some chance to improve your sexual status with this woman. You don't. You must understand that she is utterly uninterested in you sexually & never was, so any idea of "reigniting" isn't rooted in reality. You yourself stated that sex is scarce but she has an "adventurous past". You try to blame it on the "pill" but when did she start taking this pill? Definitely not at around 34 but I'm sure she told you something like that. If the pill is killing her libido why is she finding time & energy to rendezvous with multiple men besides you? I used to date someone whose libido was threatened by pills; she actively looked for alternative treatments to ensure her sexual level was up to par to do what we both wanted to do together so this excuse is nonsense.
Not only is she not sexually interested in you, she doesn't respect you. You aren't a beta in her eyes, you're closer to an omega. If you were beta with some respectability in her eyes, she wouldn't be so sloppy with her lies & sneaking around & she definitely wouldn't push the idea of open relationships. Respectable betas get the decency of getting cheated on the traditional way: behind their backs in max secrecy. Females push open relationships first when they are confident it would be difficult for the man to get ANY female, much less one comparable to them. Your relationship with her is the equivalent of a homeless yet attractive man (hobosexual) starting a "relationship" with a fat woman with her own place.
With all this being stated, your questions can be easily answered.
You need serious personal help. You lack confidence, self-esteem, & various other integral factors. You should refrain from dating until you resolve these issues to avoid falling into the same trap w/another female.
Musicgoon78 3 2d ago
This is a fucking disaster! She's making you a cuck, lying to you, cheating left and right and she doesn't give you sex. Why the fuck are you staying? This chick offers nothing except suffering and frustration. Have some fucking standards. Move on from this mess.
Read the sidebar and don't accept this kind of bullshit treatment. It's not cool.
First-light 1 2d ago
I think the analogy of the frog being boiled to death so slowly that it doesn't notice the change in the water temperature applies here. You would never have bought into any of this at the outset but she is constantly making things a bit worse and because its only a bit worse each time she lies and cheats and you are invested, you keep going.
She isn't full of desire but she wants to see other guys. Either she is not that into you sexually or the novelty, conquest and attention side of sex is more interesting to her than the reality of having sex.
This is not going to work for you I am afraid. You are becoming a police man, even though all you are saying is perfectly reasonable. She might even turn it all around on you and call you controlling or coercive.
You can't win with a modern woman who wants to cheat. You have no rights to make her play straight. She can do as she pleases, you can't even demand to know the truth. You only salvation is to walk. I am sorry about this but she will make a fool of you if you stay with her. Don't take that Devil's bargain of the open relationship. This will just take you into hotter water. You will pay bills for a cold slut and jump through hoops to court hopefully warmer sluts for casual sex. Its the worst of both worlds
Overkill_Engine Endorsed Contributor 2d ago
As usual, the answer is "Next".
Once a woman has lost the essential combo of desire/respect for you, (in this case she probably never had it, holy fuck) YOU ARE NEVER GETTING IT BACK. There is no magic pussy password to get it back. Accept that and move on.
The abuse of your devotion and good will only get worse, not better if you stay. Put on your best poker face, and quietly fix your shit by arranging things so that you getting the fuck out with as little warning and fanfare as possible.
No long heartfelt rom-com discussions. Life isn't the fucking Hallmark channel, so don't rely on shit that would only work in a world made out of fem-centric fiction.
And maybe actually read the god damn sidebar and make even the barest effort to comprehend it. Had you done so, you could have avoided getting into this shitfest of a situation to begin with by recognizing that she was not worth anything from you and having the self respect to pass on her shit.
A woman that is worth a damn doesn't make it necessary to police her or do things that put her fidelity in doubt.
AlexFromEurope 2d ago
Thanks for the feedback and for taking the time to reply. Most of what you said I already thought myself, but hearing it from a third party really clarified things.
Bottom line: the right move is to get out. I’m getting nothing here - no sexual compatibility, no stability (when I ruptured my tendon she spiraled instead of supporting me), no value in finances, housework, or cooking (I do better on my own with simple clean protein heavy dishes). She’s social, but her friends aren’t my crowd.
I guess I was intrigued at first by her sexual openness in the past, thinking maybe I could share that kind of lifestyle with her. But that never happened, even though it was dangled in front of me at times.
On the “open relationship” point - she never really framed it as that. It was more like, “you can go get it elsewhere since I have no libido - but I would apply to her.” But probably: this is how it starts, and eventually it’s either, “Well you’re doing it so I should too,” or she just uses it as an excuse for her leisure activities with male “friends” to drift into being lovers. Either way, it’s lose-lose as you said: I’d be paying bills for a cold woman at home while jumping through hoops to chase casual sex outside. That really clicked with me - worst of both worlds. I can do casual dating on my own terms without dragging her dead weight along.
I’ll admit I’m still tempted to try us the time until the exit as an experiment, just to see how much she’d actually would support it. She dangled the idea of a threesome in front of me before. So part of me thinks: fine, put your money where your mouth is. “You were adventurous before, and I get that your libido is low now, but sex is essential for me. You’ve got more experience in that world, so if you’re serious, help me. Do you know friends or people from the past who would be open to it. No, help with the apps, with the photos, even introductions.” That way at least I’d learn something, even if it’s just a lesson that this was all the bait. And if not - worst cases she introduce me to sexual open minded friends with less work for me.
But long story short: this relationship doesn’t align with my core values - support, honesty, and trust. Without those, there’s no long-term future. I need to act on that. Set up my exit, and if I choose, run a few “experiments” on the way out so I take lessons for the future. And until than set clear boundaries, I will have to think about what they are.
Thank you - your perspective helped me a lot to get clarity & take action!
SeasonedRP 2 2d ago
Anytime a woman says "I need space," it's over. The rest of what you wrote just confirms that.
mattyanon Admin 2d ago
Was this to please you, or was it so she can fuck other men?
The issue with your situation is that you are the beta provider, even if you can see other women.
She will find it easier to fuck other people than you will. You are living with your girlfriend, that will put off most women.
Honestly now...... why are you bothering? Why are you trying to compensate and fix a broken situation?
In which case she comes off the pill and you use condoms and have regular blowjobs. Or find a different pill. Or a different form of birth control.
The pill decreases libido in some women. It varies. But being on it is not working for you both, so she needs to come off it.
Right. Adventurous past is fine, but nun-like present is not.
Right. So at best she is emotionally cheating.
Why are you even talking about this? She's lying to you, talking about it isn't going to change it.
Right. You want a proper LTR, and this girl is NOT IT.
This is common... a few good years, then dead bedroom.
You need to separate her from your life. Not live with her.
See my post this week about "Making It Work" and why this is a terrible idea.
This girl is emotionally cheating on you, lying to you, and not fucking you. It's time to get free of her and find yourself a great girlfriend.
You SHOULD be breaking up with her.
Honestly, you'll struggle with this and it won't work as easily as you think it will. Can you easily fuck other women, or is this just theoretical?
No.
Boundaries have been crossed, so now you need to act, not talk.
Right.
It's a terrible idea. She now has permission to cheat with the guy she's been seeing already and you will probably struggle to find anyone else to fuck unless you are a lot better at this than I think you are.
Move out and demote, yes.
If you stay, just cut off your balls and kneel in front of her.
She's already fucking you over. The more you stay in this crappy situation the less she respects you.
It's very rare, and when it has happened you have to permanently police her, watch her, and never slip back into the same level of commitment. You get regular drama and false promises about how "it will work this time". And usually she resents you forever.
The biggest blindspot is trying to make it work when it's already thoroughly broken.
AlexFromEurope 2d ago
Thank you for the effort and feedback – your perspective validates my own thoughts on the situation and gives me a push to take action instead of overthinking further.
This was presented as a way to fulfill my needs. She explicitly said it would only be for me, and that it wouldn’t mean she would start dating others or make the relationship non-exclusive. But as you also mentioned, this can easily shift – either explicitly (“I want the same”) or implicitly (“since he’s doing it, I can also escalate things with the guy I’m already spending ‘leisure time’ with”).
True, I didn’t have this on my radar. From a casual dating perspective, living with her gives me no advantage. The only scenario where it could help is if she genuinely followed through on her words: “I offered this, and by the way, I have a sexually open-minded friend I can introduce you to.” But that’s wishful thinking.
You’re right. That should have been my stance 8 months ago. Lesson learned: when something essential to me is missing, I can’t accept being deprived of it - I should clearly state the need and push for a solution. She did “try” by suggesting a schedule for sex, but let’s be honest: who wants sex with someone treating it like a chore.
I don’t have a good answer. The first time, I rationalized it: “Maybe she’s afraid I’d react badly.” But I showed her I handle things maturely. Now it’s clearly at “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.” You’re right, there’s no reason to believe she’ll change.
I read your article Making It Work and why this is a terrible idea - thank you for pointing me there. It hit the nail on the head. I can relate directly: when I was hitting the gym hard, advancing at work, and focusing more on myself, her attraction was noticeably stronger. But when I ruptured the ligaments in my foot and couldn’t pursue those things, all of it vanished. Sex effort dropped again, affection dried up, and the “this relationship is boring” comment came up again, alongside the other two later situations I already described. This validated your point: ==You hit the gym, you talk to other women, you get yourself more options. You stop replying to her. Dread game – except it’s not even directed at her, it’s just you improving your own life.==
I will take that advice and preparing to move out still I’m tempted in the mean while to test her offer - to see if she’d really support me finding sex elsewhere. If she did, it would just help me improvoing the having other woman in my life. Realistically, it’s probably just talk.
Can I get it on my own? Yes, but it’s hard work. I’m maybe a 6.5/10 (already close to my ceiling: athletic, 10+ years gym, solid style, 179 cm). I’ve had ~4 F(W)B arrangements before, so it’s possible - but it’s not like I have apps flooded with matches, and most of my matches want something more “serious.” I’m not delusional: without reaching “8+ territory,” (which is highly unlikly, and that's ok) I won’t be the guy women flock to for casual fun purely on looks. My strategy will need to be more versatile than just relying on dating apps.
mattyanon Admin 2d ago
She's already emotionally cheating and breaking your boundaries, so I think this would just let her go another step further.
You can't build a relationship with someone who lies to you.
And even if you are fucking other women, you are STILL THE PROVIDER.
It gives you a massive disadvantage. Where are you going to fuck these women? When do you tell them you live with your girlfriend?
More likely she offers this to keep you happy, but then sabotages it every chance she gets.
Right
It won't work. You'll struggle to fuck other women.
I don't know how good you are with women (I suspect average) and I don't know your ability to fuck women on a first date (I suspect below average), but I really think you are underestimating how hard it is to fuck women on the side. It requires time and money and effort and attractiveness that I'm not sure you have available.
It's easier to get a girlfriend than casual sex because commitment is what women generally want from most men. Unless you are top 5% attractiveness I don't think you can have the lifestyle you think you can while living with your girlfriend.
Are you going to meet these women on Tinder? Socially? In bars?
That sounds higher than 6.5/10, but you don't sound top 5% either.
right.
Right. So you're basically a sorted guy, not bad looking but not exceptional. Solid boyfriend territory. Not casual sex material for most attractive women. And you're living with your girlfriend, so sex will have to be at her place.
Yeah, I can't see this working out well for you unless I'm missing something.