I have a solid relationship and have been with my girlfriend for 8 years and this week, she messaged me with the "I am thinking about booking a holiday with my friend" - there will just be two of them. At the time of the message, I was too busy to even think about it so I quickly messaged back once I read it saying "go for it, could be fun". After having some time to think about it and also think about the type person her friend is, I am slightly worried for my girlfriends welfare and I will get to that in a minute.
My girlfriend has never been on a girls holiday before, mainly because she has never had anyone to go on holiday with (she usually keeps herself to herself) and I have never needed to set any boundaries related to this at the beginning of our relationship because it's just not something we both did (I have never been on a lads holiday since we've been together, I did all that when I turned 18).
Her friend is a bit of a slut, she is very attractive, very confident and she basically knows all of this. Her friend is currently in a relationship and she has been with him for a few months but from what my girilfriend has told me, it doesn't seem to be going well for them and they most likely will be breaking up.
Now the cause for concern. The past 2 nights out my girlfriend has been on with her friend, her friend has misbehaved and basically left my girlfriend on her own because her friends boyfriend met them later on in the evening and they went home without her. This caused a fall out between them and resulted in my girlfriend being upset/crying over it - I had to drive to pick my girlfriend up to ensure she got home safe because her friend left my girl on her own in the city at 1am in the morning. She didn't do this once, but she did this twice - they haven't had a night out since the second time happened.
I voiced my concerns over the above situation with my girlfriend and she's adamant that she has discussed it privately with her friend and her friend was very apologetic, and it wouldn't happen again. She has reassured me that she 100% trusts her and that she's actually a good person/friend to my girl, I just don't fully know her and have only seen the bad side of things. I have always been a person that looks at actions over words so I will believe her when I see it.
After having that discussion, my girl mentioned that "if this is going to cause problems between us, then she just won't go". I don't want to control my girlfriends life so I basically told her that I will support her in whatever decision she makes, but until her friend proves herself to me that she is reliable and trustworthy, then I am going to be worrying. My girl said that she appreciates that I am looking out for her and she understands my concerns, and again said that if this will cause a problem between us, then she just won't go.
My girl also mentioned something questionable to me. She said that she has never been on a girls holiday before so she would like to experience one - I have been questioning the meaning behind this ever since she messaged it.
My other concern is that once my girl is around her friend and if her friend ends up becoming single, her friend will end up becoming wild and most likely will put my girlfriend in vulnerable situations where men will be involved with them. This holiday will be the ultimate test for our relationship, but if my girlfriend does actually do something, I will never know anyway and that's the scary part....? She will never have been in a situation like this before for her to know how she will behave/act, especially around a friend who may influence her.
Not really sure what to think of this at the moment so how would you handle a situation like this without controlling your partner?
Mofreer 3mo ago
There are always some concerns when a topic like this comes up. Your initial reaction was actually solid, but what you need to do is be completely honest about your reasoning for disliking the idea of your girlfriend going on a girls’ trip. Sure, that’s a bad friend, but your primary concern is that she’s going out to party and potentially putting herself in situations where her fidelity could be compromised.
Generally speaking, a subtle comment right after telling her she should go and have fun would have been enough. She needs to know that you’re not completely indifferent to it, and that you do recognize the implications of her going out partying, implications that could compromise your relationship. That comment could be something along the lines of, “Yeah, those places can get wild.”
Rollo Tomassi speaks clearly about this and how you should respond. Other senior contributors have also pointed out the red flags in a situation like this. Still, you're your own man. You've been together for eight years, do you really want to throw that away by blindly following advice without adding your own nuance to the situation?
Read more about the concept of the mental point of origin and try to apply it across your life, not just in this one scenario: https://therationalmale.com/2014/11/14/mental-point-of-origin/
Many people here forget that the reason we’re in this space is because we’re pushing back against the programming we’ve received since childhood, only to end up following a different kind of programming to the extreme, without injecting our own thought and nuance into it.
Ronaldraygun77 3mo ago
Your GF, regardless of the ephemeral words that come out of her mouth, wants to go on an EXTENDED Girls Night Out™️.
With a girl that not only abandoned her (so much for “girl code”), but is also confirmed promiscuous, and impulsive. AND she’s about to break up with her boyfriend? Damn mate. Nothing is guaranteed, but you do realize this is a perfect storm for a cheating scenario. Was a bouncer for 5+ years, and girls always go looking for trouble in twos. Only have to rationalize bad behavior to one other person that way.
If she sees her friend behave badly with zero consequences, she may partake as well.
If you haven’t already, I’ve had good results laying it out in a 3rd person scenario with a statement of fact.
“Do what you want, but I couldn’t take a girl that goes on holiday with someone like that seriously”
Or even better: “You’re supposed to be my girlfriend right. What does that mean to you?” And just let it hang there.
If she gets the picture, she will protect her relationship and not go.
MrSupreme 3mo ago
Its been 8 years,that is a long time. I think you should be worried about the quality of people she is surrounding herself with, and the way they treat her.
Really dude, they left her in the city at 1am,not giving her a ride means they think she is some kind of door mat.The apology is just an excuse to do it again,these things will keep happening if the cycle is not broken. Some people are like that, they love to keep people close they can walk over and stomp, break the cycle and the interest is lost.
This is,and in my opinion should be treated as you caring for her well being and social circles, maybe it is time to let that bitch go and get a new friend.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 3mo ago
First off, this sounds like a shit friend and I'm surprised she'd want to go on holiday after this.
Second, I'm reminded of an old Eddie Murphy routine about a woman going on Vacation to Jamaica without her boyfriend. She winds up on the beach by herself and feeling lonely and gets approached by a local who starts putting on the moves. "And then, the next thing you know, some dude named Dexter St. Stud IS FUCKING YOUR WOMAN!!!
Musicgoon78 3 3mo ago
This honestly sounds like a disaster. I would give her final say, but be very firm about how her friend hasn't show you that she can treat your girl right.
You could always plan a getaway with her later if she doesn't go with the friend. Sometimes a day trip or desecrating a cheap hotel room is a welcome break.
Ultimately is your job to let her know you think the friend has been shitty to her.
It's hard to say how much to worry. Some girls I used to date, I would trust to go, others, fuuuuucckkk no! There's no reason to make yourself crazy over this and also you shouldn't make it your problem. Say your peace, show loving concern and let her police or behave herself.
Ronaldraygun77 3mo ago
Exactly. We talk a lot about punishing bad behavior in this space, but not a lot about rewarding good behavior. If she declines, plan your own little adventure together.
Goon, you still on the discord?
Musicgoon78 3 3mo ago
Yeah bro. Still there just been busy as fuck right now.
Lone_Ranger 3 3mo ago
You are worrying about your girlfriends friend, which is nothing to do with you.
You should be more worried about your gf.
the very fact that she wants to go on a holiday wihthout you is a gigantic red flag. I am surprised that you cannot see it.
For her to even suggest this means that she has zero dread - she is not afraid of losing you. Therefore, she does not value you or respect you.
Bozza 2 3mo ago
I would agree with @Lone_Ranger take - the fact she is willing to go on holiday without you is a red flag. Why not a double-date style holiday? It seems a bit suspicious.
Even more suspicious if they're going to a party destination, where the only reason for going is getting wasted and getting railed.
Lone_Ranger 3 3mo ago
I reckon there were periods in my life when I ONLY banged chicks that were in relationships. Very often this would take place in holiday destinations, like Ibiza.
There is something about a chick in a relationship that makes it soooooooo easy to pick her up. You can spot them a mile off. They are so eager. They act like there isn't much time.... they seem like they don't want to waste single night of their holiday. They're like a single mom that has hired a baby sitter to got - not a moment to waste.
Easy pickings.
SeasonedRP 2 3mo ago
Rollo has an article about this. The problem is that your girlfriend wants to go without you. When trips come about this way, the woman is going to hook up with someone. Once they get to the destination, they'll go to places to be approached by men. No point in discussing boundaries or any such nonsense-she wants to go, which means she wants hook up options that you won't find out about. That is not the behavior of an exclusive girlfriend.
Don't say anything further about it. Consider the exclusive nature of the relationship to be over and start talking to other girls. If she lives with you, take her stuff to her mom's when she is on the trip. If not, don't be available when she gets back. Just go no contact for a while. Chances are you'll meet someone more suitable and not have any interest in seeing this girl again. Just keep your cool between now and the trip and change the subject if she brings it up, and start talking to other girls now.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 3mo ago
+1
@Typo-MAGAshiv
DanielCron 3mo ago
Thanks for you reply.
I have a lot of trust in my girlfriend and I would like to think she wouldn't cheat. However, I am fully aware that if a better man came along on holiday, she could take a chance.
She's the type of girl that doesn't post pictures on Instagram (she hasn't uploaded a single picture), although she has an account. I have never had any doubts in my mind up until recently, when she started turning her phone from my view when we were watching Netflix together (I don't look at her phone anyway, but I clicked on straight away when she started doing it), this happened over a period of 3 weeks but I didn't say anything. I brought it up a few weeks later in conversation and after that, I noticed she didn't turn her phone away from me anymore when were watching Netflix.
She's very much into Chris Brown and she went and saw him recently at a concert. After the concert, she didn't shut up about him and she wanted to show me the videos she had recorded of the evening - I told her I'm not interested in seeing Chris Brown videos because I don't care for his music and that kind of ended it - I know she was probably wet for him though when he was performing like most girls at the concert would've been.
Anyway, we are currently looking at buying a house together - what's your updated thoughts on this now?
Lone_Ranger 3 3mo ago
dude, you really are barking up a series of wrong trees.
You seem to think her liking chris brown is a red flag. Or that you don't 'trust' her friend.
There is a gigantic red flag, a warning signal so big it cannot be ignore - she wants to go on holidays without you.
It does not matter what she gets up to on her holidays - whether she cheats or not - if a gf of 8 years even expresses a desire to go on holidays without you, she is signaling that it is over.
Ronaldraygun77 3mo ago
Funny you mention that. There’s actually an old post on the TRP Reddit about a guys GF that goes to a Chris Brown concert and gets pumped+dumped by him. The timelines match up and everything.
Crazy things can happen out there. Best to be aware of them.
SeasonedRP 2 3mo ago
https://rationalmale.substack.com/p/the-boundaries-of-giants. Here is the article I referenced. It contains much wisdom.
SeasonedRP 2 3mo ago
I suggest you find Rollo's article on women in relationships planning trips and not inviting their boyfriends. It will be informative for you. @Lone_Ranger, @Bozza, and I have been around a while and have seen this scenario many times. This is how good girls have hook ups without getting caught. When they go on trips like this, they get all.dolled up then go out to places where they'll be approached by men. Then things "just happen." And no one back home will ever know (unless she and her.friend get in a fight over the same guy-I've seen that happen). That she wants to go is a sign of disrespect, possibly boredom with the relationship too. I would not plan on buying a house with her. She is not ready to settle down with you and may view you as a chump. But do not have discussions with her about the trip. Just accept that it is time to find a more suitable woman and don't be available when she gets back. Good luck.
Bozza 2 3mo ago
Heed this wisdom OP, or get burned.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3mo ago
Good shit.
SeasonedRP 2 3mo ago
Also, stop trying to rationalize your girlfriend wanting to go by thinking the problem is her friend. No, the problem is your girlfriend wants to put herself in a situation where she can hook up with guys and you not know about it. The birds of a feather saying didn't come out of nowhere. Your girlfriend is the issue, not her friend.
superhitops 3mo ago
There is the tale of the man who finds wife cheating on the couch, then burns the couch to avoid the cheating.
First-light 2 3mo ago
The big problem is she knows she will have more fun with the friend than with you, even though she is a poor friend. This does suggest that you have a weakness in your relationship.
The risk of infidelity is always there. Its small if you are sure you can trust her but women can always be led astray by the right Chad on the right night when they feel weak in their relationship, perhaps when they feel they have been "sacrificing" for the relationship and missing an experience. We all need to see that we are not invulnerable here.
I would tell her that her choice is free but I would also point out how poor the friend is, contrast how you would take care of her and like her to be taken care of.
In the end if its going to break, its going to break. If its weak but still saveable, not letting her go on holiday will only weaken it more in the long run.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3mo ago
That won't help.
Hypergamy doesn't care.
First-light 2 3mo ago
Hypergamy doesn't care when the monkey branch is there and she facies the leap.
If she wants to branch she certainly will but if she just wants a fun holiday she may think twice about going with someone who isn't a good companion. If she wants to go to slut, no amount of beta service will stop her.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 3mo ago
The fact that she even wants to go without him in the first place is bad. Very bad.
Even if she has no conscious desire to cheat, putting herself in this situation is a huge sign of disrespect and lack of discipline.