Immediately, I will be honest and say I'm a little lazy with dating apps. I swipe right on everything, and then filter out the matches after the fact, but I don't believe it would matter even if I didn't - in fact, I'd probably have less matches.
Here's the issue: Basically all of my matches are with women I don't consider to be in my league. I don't have a distorted or warped view of myself, I know my worth and I know the kind of women I'm capable of getting, but for some reason it ain't happening on these apps anymore.
Back in the day (pre-covid), I approached these apps with the same laziness, and got wayyyyy more matches, and much better options too. What has changed? Because I'm pretty certain it isn't me, and I know I'm not the only one who's noticed this.
Edit: Could be because I'm a little older now, but I doubt it. More than likely it is because online dating has shifted more to social media platforms such as Instagram where attractive women can advertise themselves much more easily for very high value men, leaving all the lake monsters and decrepid single mothers for dating apps. Probably a lot more complex than that, or maybe it's that my face is not en vogue post-covid. Maybe they can detect that I'm not an esteemed, vaccinated soy lord. No idea, that's why I'm here.
Musicgoon78 2 2w ago
Dating apps have gone downhill. They only show you bottom of the barrel women unless you pay.
I think the quality of the apps has gone to shit.
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
1000%.
Anyone who's had any success on them in the past knows this. Feel sorry for the dudes who never had any success on them, period. At least we had our time.
MrSupreme 2w ago
During the lockdowns the use of dating apps went up, so they started charging people for different features like super likes and being able to write to popular profiles. I tried them a couple months ago after years of not using them and all i could find was older women,fatties and prostitution. You may have some luck if you're a 10% looks guy with a great profile, but for the rest it scks.
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
That's pretty much all I'm matched with. To be fair, it's on me because I mindlessly swipe right lol, but the results are fucking shocking. I met my ex through Facebook, and she beats them all out by at least 8 tiers. So when I get matched with these goblins, it's like a spinning back kick to the ego. I wish them all the best of luck, but they are not ever gonna be on my radar.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2w ago
Anything that is designed to benefit women is going to be shit.
The algorithm, apps, and unstated preferences that determine success on them centers entirely around women, who aren't even the ones paying to use them.
Women come in to the apps with intentions and preferences for men that they not only do not state on their profiles but who explicitly say the opposite of what they are looking for
"I want a relationship, something serious, I'm tired of games" but then they go straight over to the house to the hot guys with great profiles.
In turn, these men get rewarded in the algorithm because those are who the data and metrics support (swipes likes, messaging, less reports) meanwhile these app companies take overt measures to protect women from their stated dislikes (blurring pictures, de-ranking no no words and giving filter word options on hinge, adding height verification, etc).
So what ends up happening is that the algorithm rewards people doing what is stated to not be wanted, while everyone else gets filtered through hoops and barriers designed to prevent the non-paying customers from leaving the app (because no one would use dating apps if it was only men)
Additionally, the guys with fantastic SMV and profiles likely are not even having to pay because they don't have to. So what you get is an app that penalizes all of the unsuccessful users and rewards users that don't buy into the app (women and Chads).
The end result is that women are being funneled into an elusive harem monopoly of high SMV men with great photography resources who will not commit to them because they have all of the product benefits with almost none of the product purchases, which makes women even more jaded.
So what you end up with is women using the app for the opposite of the intent they expressed (they end up hooking up with Chads) and then get jaded at the apps and demand more changes while the paying customers get algorithmically removed from the product pool despite being the overwhelming primary paying customers who do not actually get to receive the product they are allegedly paying for (more matches, i.e. actual dates).
Dating apps have arguably the most perverse incentive structure of any business in existence. It is one of the only non-investment type businesses I can think of where your return of investment after paying for the service depends entirely on the whims of hundreds of third parties' subjective and emotional evaluations of you, when the reason you are paying for the service to begin with is because they already had a negative evaluation of you, while the nonpayers don't need to pay because they get to enjoy the service for free. It is the only business I can think of where you have an extremely high chance of not receiving a product you actually paid for
The entire paid structure of dating apps is entirely dysfunctional and that's why the company fucks you with the algorithm instead of just showing everyone to everyone in a relatively unbiased way outside of distance and overlapping expressed preferences (i.e. a guy being shown to a girl more because they both selected volleyball as an interest)
So to answer your question, the companies have moved away from simply just showing people and having people pay to remove like limits and show likes, to designing an algorithm that penalizes people that don't already get to enjoy the service for free because they don't contribute to the company's bottom line).
If you want to succeed on these apps you need to have the kind of looks (including lifting) and lifestyle that women would like to swipe on for free without needing to jump over hoops.
If your profile isn't already rewarded by women free of charge you are already destined to be fucked. Your success depends entirely on you and your representation in your profile.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2w ago
These apps will never change their incentive structure because women do not use the apps for the intended purpose of the app. It is mostly women who cannot meet or keep men in person, or sluts, so they resort to apps. And they will not choose the vast majority of men, who likewise resort to apps because they feel like that have to and can't meet any women in person
These apps will never change their incentive structure or what the paid features should be because doing so would not protect their bottom line.
These apps are destined to go under at some point because without resorting to this incentive structure and self-cannibalizing algorithms that also discourage and bleed away their paying users they wouldn't be able to make any money. The business is entirely predicated on perversive monetary incentives and a mismatch of return on investment and at some point it will implode
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
Great write up, and I really appreciate the depth you go into. It makes a lot of sense. What doesn't make sense, however, is that this:
This was my lived experienced on dating apps pre-Covid. Nothing has changed other than that I've aged by a couple of years. That's it, and I'm still technically a young man. There's no way that I was super attractive 5 years ago and beyond, but aren't now. I look exactly the same, I'm just wiser. I'm still in great shape and my profile demonstrates that. I'm not saying I'm some 10% model looking dude, but I do know that I am at least good looking.
Purely based on the previous successful experiences I had with dating apps, I would never pay to use one or get a boost. Ever. I never felt the need before, and even though I am far less successful on them right now, I would never do something as undignified as that.
So, yeah. I'll have to read your comment again to see if I've missed anything.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2w ago
Didn't you say in another post that you lost muscle and other stuff?
Also 5 years ago the climate was different. Again one has to factor in the level of burnout women have experienced getting ran thru on the apps. That also influences their swiping behavior
Also, men who never needed apps now use them because they just take their hot insta pictures and use apps to scrape up more girls. If inst the same app base as years ago
Years ago if you just had the right vibe you were golden. You are also punished rejoining, making a new account with old pictures, making a new account at all, you get punished for being an old account from what I've heard
Their algorithm is completely ass and has changed over the years, so have women and their expectations. It's not the same app as it was years ago because the culture around it has changed too.
Also in all those years you have people studying how to make the most out of these apps etc. people have made it a science. The same factors helping you with a worse and more picky user base is going to fuck your old meta
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
Yeah, I remember. I was being dramatic. I was still in good shape, just looking at myself through a negative lense. I have been at the gym consistently for a few months again now too, so all concerns have been fully rectified.
I suspected as much. The culture and perspectives have definitely shifted, apps have gone majorly downhill, and I have actually been punished specifically by Tinder for reopening an account with the same number and email address lol. Which is beyond stupid IMO, but whatever.
I'm never gonna be a 10/10 megachad no matter what I do, and all for what? To validate some bitches whose expectations reach delusional levels on some app? Better to stick to in-field. Much more realistic and actually fruitful.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2w ago
Also, there is a solid chance your photos aren't as good as you think not your lifestyle in the images.
You could get by on that before. I did too. I've made burners as a female looking for men and seen what the really good male profiles look like.
Not even chads, their profiles are just utterly superior and that's your competition unfortunately
No-Stress-Cat 2w ago
I've never used a dating app.
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
They were great back in the day. For me, it was basically like Uber Fucks, or DoorGash if you're American. Start speaking to a few matches the same day, and get them on the end of my dick that very night haha. I miss it. It was like that for years. Just a really easy way to hook up in a moment's notice. Very convenient.
These days they are very much the opposite of that. The Golden Age of dating apps is over. For me at least. Back to regular ass cold approaches.
derdeutscher 2w ago
Any men under 60 with enough time to use dating apps is not living his life fully.
Work full time job, have few hobbies, fitness, and social life, and tell me if you have time for that shit.
On top of that, they suck. Even for Chads sometimes.
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
I mean, it only takes a minute or two to swipe but I agree with you.
derdeutscher 2w ago
Thats the catch 22. It takes few minutes a day. Which is true.
One month later, its two hours a day, 100 bucks a month, and you are hoping to finally get a date, and you are frustrated.
Lone_Ranger 2 2w ago
Apps are the trash sorting through the trash.
Think about it: if you were a 5/10 woman, without obvious mental illness, not fat, not old....you will get approached every single day out in IRL.
Over on the guy side: if you were an ok kind of guy, reasonable shape, decent game, ok at holding a convo, some social awareness and some friends... you would be able to meet women IRL all the time.
Those two cohorts above (the men and women that are ok) are basically not on the apps, because THEY DON'T NEED TO BE.
The people that need to be on the apps are those that are not getting any traction IRL.
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
That might be true for the most part, but it's not the whole story. I met plenty of hot girls from off Tinder, Bumble and even Badoo sometimes. The kind of girls that absolutely would be getting approached left, right and centre. Not average, but above average girls. So someone explain to me why they would ever have gone on a dating app if they're being approached 24/7? And don't tell me it's because they have mental health issues, lol. Every girl has some form of neuroticism.
But of course, hot or not... One man's trash is another man's treasure. I was looking explicitly for hoes on dating apps, and you could say that is trashy, sure, but as far as quality goes, dating apps were once a great place to quickly meet up with attractive women - in my experience anyway. Now it's nothing but trash.
Lone_Ranger 2 2w ago
I've personally never been on the apps, because I have never had the need to go on apps. I can pull IRL, and to me, the apps seem degrading for men.
Friends that have been on the apps tell me their war stories. It sounds like a huge investment of time. I have asked guy friends (and a few women friends) what its like to actually run a dating app profile, and its sounds like a second job.
If you spent 20% of the time that you do on the apps in IRL, just talking to real women, you would certainly have better results. Why waste your time on something that you know is full of trash?
It's like going to the local prison and looking for honest people.
MidgetSpinner 2w ago
Because dating apps weren't trash before. It wasn't my only source for getting pussy, it was just a valuable resource for getting quick one night stands, possibly even friends with benefits. I looked at it as a tool for that sort of thing, not anything serious. The girls on there may have been mostly hoes back in the day, but they were attractive hoes and that's what I was looking for. Now it is actual trash, and that's what is shocking me. But make no mistake, dating apps were never a time consuming thing for me, when it only took me 2 minutes max to swipe through them all. The matches would come through passively throughout the day, and then I'd sift through the rubble to find any gems and basically arrange to fuck them. It was great for hooking up, as are parties, and meeting girls in the real world. Was nice to have a variety of means towards getting sex.
SeasonedRP 1 2w ago
For older guys who have their act together, the apps are a waste of time, though you'll certainly get a lot of interest.
mattyanon Admin 2w ago
you're right.
What's happening is this:
So from the get-go there are MANY more men than women who are seriously looking.
Next, let's look at what happens:
Yep, it's definitely changed for the worse. Probably because of the above, only more so.
not sure exactly why/what changed post-covid, but a lot did change. for the worse.
joyboy 4d ago
Not true i'm nowhere near top 10% let alone top .1% but i still match with decent looking women. Matches don't mean much anyways though since like 99% of girls are going to ghost you due to having better options and a lot are just wasting time like you said