I'm 25, met this 34 year old ex-model at an afters. I was drunk and off a quarter pill of MDMA so I was full on charisma mode, just a machine saying the right things. Spoke to everyone all night, saw her at like 3am and complimented her look and asked where she's from, and we began chatting.
She's been in the city 10 years, almost guaranteed to have been with a carousel of high-status dudes: actors, DJs, finance guys, whatever. I'm established in the entertainment industry but early on in my career and not rich by any means yet.
Still, we vibed instantly. Chemistry was wild, lots of synchronicities. Our birthdays were a day apart and she was into horoscopes so that played to my advantage. We both had Euro roots and I was able to make references to her country. Within 20 minutes we were holding hands, dancing intimate, flirting, her attention was undivided on me.
I'm objectively a mid tier normie at best lookswise so I felt like a god all night, given that this girl was throwing herself on me, especially since I had some friends around witness everything.
She told me early in the night she was one month out of a long-term relationship and "not looking to date, just friends.” Standard post-breakup deflection. I didn’t push because I'm not looking for anything, told her no labels. I played into the vibe, kept it flirty, light, physical. We were inseparable the rest of the night. Lots of eye contact, dancing close, little kisses, whispered jokes.
Here's when things start going south. I get loveydovey on the MDMA, start complimenting her maybe a bit too much. Telling her she's so sexy, that I'm crushing on her, haven't felt this ways in a while. I go in for a kiss while we dance and she deflects with a cheek kiss and kisses me back.
Then more bullshit hits. My phone died, runs out of battery, first time it's ever happened. My Credit Card chip wouldn’t work with their machine, tap only at the venue. I thought this is where shit ends but she took the lead, holds my hand, takes us and began paying for both our drinks. We find out there's another spot after this, she pays for our Uber and buys the tickets to the next spot. I tell her I'll make it up to her next time, but I definitely feel a bit embarrassed to have her paying for me. At the same time I feel like on top of the world. In the Uber we hold hands, she sits in the middle seat next to me and I got my arm wrapped around her. I was too wasted to remember our precise convos but I know that things were flowing smoothly
We left together from the second place around 7am, it's light out. She offers to Uber us back to hers to charge my phone so I don't get stranded, I think at this point I've sealed the deal. I think the uber ride home she was starting to sober up and maybe ASD was kicking into overdrive. She was less touchy but I kept initiating kino by rubbing her back, whispering in her ear, etc. I went in for the kiss again in the uber and she deflected with the cheek.
We get to her place, her sister is her roommate and asleep, she tells me to be quiet. We sit and talked quietly in the kitchen while her sister slept and my phone charges. She says she's super sleepy and I tell her "Let me tuck you in" (in a joking tone.) She laughs and says it's ok. I try escalating a little in the kitchen but her cat starts meowing and she gets distracted trying to calm it down so it doesn't wake up her sister.
I begin to accept that nothing's probably going to happen, reluctantly book the uber home once my phone is charged but still try to continue the kino. At this point it's been at least half an hour since we drank and I'm coming down from the MDMA and she's sobering up.
Uber gets here, she walks me outside and hugs me, tells me she had a great time and wants to hang out again soon. After the hug I use my hand to redirect her chin towards me (the move has worked before on other girls) and I go for a kiss a third time. Once again she turns it into another cheek kiss but laughed flirtily and looks away. I forget to get her number but have her instagram from before.
I message when I got home (too early in my opinion). I was still drunk, and got a bit soft (mistake #1):
“Thanks for saving me from being stranded with a dead phone, and for a memorable night. It was a pleasure getting to know you, looking forward to seeing you again soon. Will be thinking of you.”
She responds later that day:
“It was so nice to meet you as well, I had fun. We’ll hang out again sometime soon. blushing smile emoji”
After this I'm fully sobered up, hungover and coming down from all sorts of stuff so I decide to push pull again and don't respond at all for the next 48 hours since I failed the LMR kiss. Abou two days pass since and I follow up with:
“Wasn’t expecting to find someone like you at that afters, [name]. Nice surprise. How you been?”
It’s now been two days since that last message I sent her. No response. Hasn't viewed my stories, nothing. So I think ship has sailed here, even though all in all the night was great.
What’s more confusing, she followed me on Instagram after the rave but never accepted my follow request back. Her Profile is private. She still follows me to this day, but I’m locked out. Can’t see anything. She’s seen my request by now I'm sure. Just complete radio silence.
My Answers/ Takeaways / Red Pill Debrief from my POV:
Post-breakup women are emotionally volatile. She wasn’t lying when she said she wasn’t looking to date. I just underestimated how closed she actually was. This might've been her first proper night out being slutty and then sobering up and regretting it all/missing her boyfriend all over again
Don’t chase the high of a temporary vibe. Alcohol, music, emotional openness, it all creates synthetic chemistry. What felt like a cosmic connection in the moment meant nothing by Monday morning. I've been starved for that instant connection since my last breakup 6 months ago and admittedly let it get to me.
Instagram games = soft rejection. She wanted the option to view my life, but denied me access to hers. That’s calculated. That’s control. That’s not a mistake.
One follow-up is all you get. I sent a confident, flirty check-in. No double-text. No story-baiting. Her silence is my answer.
I lovebombed her while drunk and on mdma, got a little beta but I've never had the attention of anyone this hot, I was a bit of a late bloomer in general so this was wild. It worked to escalate things in the moment but I probably ended up scaring her off in the long term.
On to the next one. BUt this was the hottest girl I've been intimate with to this degree and this has inflated my confidence, I can't wait for the next ones. I even spoke to one of the friends that was with me that night and he said she was too hot he didn't even bother approaching her. I think that happens more often than you think.
Thanks for listening, and would love to get you guys' input. I'm not even too mad, still riding the high of getting this girl around me all night
EDIT I think the moment my phone died is when shit started falling apart. The dynamics shifted too irrevocably. If the venue still would have accepted my credit card chip it might’ve been salvaged but that probably killed the momentum significantly
HardTruth7 1mo ago
First off I’ll say that you should feel good about yourself for even being in this situation. Most 25 year old guys are not at a level where they can party all night with European models.
Based on your post it seems like the vibe turned when you became too lovey-dovey as you said. As other commenters said, you put her on a big pedestal, which she is completely used to. This not only gives her the ick (she already has HUGE self esteem based on your description), but it also shows her that she can wrap you around her finger. When you put a woman like this on a pedestal, she doesn’t feel special, she just now feels like you aren’t special.
She knows that she can call you tomorrow, or next week, or next month, and you will immediately be down to fck. She knows she “has you.” She does not feel any dread that if she doesn’t hook up with you, someone else will.
Unfortunately due to the power imbalance here (you aren’t a famous DJ yet like other guys she hooks up with) it’s really easy to get oneitis over chicks like this.
The credit card, the phone dying, these are totally insignificant to the bigger picture which is that you felt like she was the prize, that you weren’t the prize. Unfortunately with women like this the only way to really nail it is if you are the most socially dominant person in the room. As you said she’s used to DJ’s and all sorts of wealthy and popular people, so unless you are at that level in your career the only way to make up for this is to be almost obnoxiously socially dominant with a master of hot&cold game. A great example of this is Jon Zherka.
Zherka is a master of hot and cold game. Because we live in a. Censored society most of his stuff is deleted but you can probably find old videos of him doing game. If you ever find yourself complementing a girl too much you can see what he does and immediately switch to cold and dismissive, teasing her etc.
It sucks but chicks like this who are models don’t really give a fuck about “connecting” with you, that is ancillary. She cares about connecting with you until the actor or DJ with a $5 million penthouse overlooking the city invites her over for a party to do cocaine. Because she’s a European model she has access to those types of things whereas regular girls do not.
To sum all that up: too loveydovey without being cold&dismissive as a contrast, put her on a pedestal, not socially dominant enough to make her think that she’s “missing out” by not hooking up with you in that moment
hennywinkler 1mo ago
Great breakdown, appreciate it man. Good news is I went out again and was able to close with another chick brought her home and she stayed the night, not quite as gorgeous but great body and cute. Used all the combined feedback from in here to correct my wrongs from last week lol. Cheers to you all
cundardunfinished 1mo ago
It's always hard to tell how you come across when intoxicated. If I had to guess you were friend zoned earlier in the night than you thought and she legitimately was taking you back to charge your phone. Knowing she had a roommate there it is a quasi-public space for her and not such a big deal to invite you back. You may also have been too desperate, sometimes you strike out just by virtue of trying too hard for too long and would be better off leaving her wanting more. Being a mid tier normie and fucked up enough not to remember parts of the night, I doubt she was creaming for you at any point in the evening and whatever escalation took place seemed to be to placate you rather than her really feeling it.
just some assumptions obviously, who knows. Maybe she had to take a dump and didn't want sex anymore
hennywinkler 1mo ago
Yup very valid insights. I think whatever went right throughout the night got torpedoed around the time of the phone dying and her having to pay for things after that. It’s ironic the Molly made me extra sappy and loveydovey but without it I wouldn’t have approached her to begin with. Lol. Lessons learned. I’ve had success before with this type of situation and closing on the same night so she might just not have felt the same as I did while on substances even if it seemed mutual
Historically my drunk self is uninhibited in a good way and seems to have some kind of je nais se quois qualities for girls. Some kind of pull or attraction, I guess I say the right words and escalate accordingly
coolsocks00 1 1mo ago
From the first few paragraphs
Well done in trying and for writing a FR.
You were in a good mood and charismatic from the drugs. Sadly that only goes so far when you dont get women. Back to the sidebar, this is basics.
hennywinkler 1mo ago
Cheers bro, that’s all true. Got caught off guard, wasn’t prepared for doing game that night especially with a smoke show like that. Was just having a fun night no expectations. I’ll touch up on everything again, pretty rusty
ogrilla99 1mo ago
This is a good field report! You gave the details needed, and tried to analyze it yourself rather than just asking what went wrong. Here are my 2 cents:
First, and biggest deal: when your interaction is based on alcohol / drugs / some form of social lubrication, you're on a clock to get things done before the high is gone. This happens to me too. I don't take any drugs, but alcohol is my social lubricant. After a few drinks I'm usually flirting, dancing, and having a great vibe going. More importantly, so are the women. I don't get black-out drunk to where I don't remember what happened, and I deliberately stay away from the sloppy drunk women, and go for the ones who are just inebriated and having a good time.
But regardless, you have to understand that much of your "connection" is due to the alcohol / drugs on both sides, and when you two sober up, oftentimes one or both of you decide you're no longer interested. It's not just the connection. No one wants to fuck when they've got a headache from a developing hangover, or feel like throwing up, or coming down from MDMA or cocaine or whatever. Which is why waiting too long and letting the high wear off almost guarantees that nothing will happen.
Note that this isn't advice to have sex with a blackout drunk woman who can't make decisions. Not unless you enjoy spending time in prison for rape. It means that there's a time period when both of you are still enjoying the high but still able to make proper decisions, and that's the time to escalate, before the downer of coming off that high turns everyone off.
What I usually do, is accelerate the timeline somewhat. Rather than spend all night talking, escalate a little more quickly, isolate more quickly, and get home when both of you are still in a good mood. Next, if you want to take it a little slower at home and build comfort, I'll offer some wine or some other drink and maybe we'll have a glass or two. Again, not to get her drunk, but to prolong and slow the descent back to being totally sober and hung over.
So again, the point is that if you're depending on drugs and alcohol, you need to move before that stuff wears off, and/or prolong the high or slow the descent, all things to give you more time before the inevitable withdrawal kicks in and everyone just wants to go home and sleep.
Regarding your cell phone dying and your credit card not working, I actually don't think this hurt you too much. Sounds like you already established a connection, and everyone knows this stuff can happen, so it sounds like she took it in stride and paid so that you two could keep going. Obviously it would have been better if it didn't happen, but I don't think it was too big a deal (as it might have been if it happened earlier).
The roommate thing, especially being her sister, is a big deal. You had no way of knowing it, but this is why you should try to control the setting. I know some guys who prefer taking a girl to her place so that she doesn't know where the guy lives, but really, if you're dating girls who might set your house on fire, you've got bigger problems :-) Assuming your girl isn't [too] crazy, I usually bring them back to my place because then I can control the setting and still lead the interaction. Sometimes a woman insists on going back to her place, so it doesn't always happen, but try as much as possible to take her back to your place rather than to hers.
I think where it went south wasn't when your phone died. It was when she started sobering up. It wasn't about dynamics which still sound fine from how you describe it. And she decided nothing was going to happen that night, and genuinely meant to just let you charge your phone at her place, and maybe talk for a bit. Why? Because she knows she's living with her sister. It's one thing to bring your longstanding boyfriend back, but no sister is going to approve of a one night stand with a rando, and unlike regular roommates, you can't get rid of family even if they move out. So she had already decided nothing was going to happen.
Third point is your followup. The chances of a connection that started in a drunk, dark night actually remaining in the bright light of [a sober] day are always low. Not that it never happens, but you're far more likely to find an LTR through day game or social networks. This is why we always tell guys that getting numbers in a club doesn't mean anything. You have to close that night. the chances of her returning your texts the next day are low no matter how good the alcohol made both of you feel last night.
So don't beat yourself up about nothing happening. Knowing this, if you wish to still at least give it a chance, the goal is to commit to another meetup quick. Wait until the hangover goes away, which means don't text in the morning. Last thing you want is to serve as her reminder of why she never wants to drink again as her head is pounding and she's wearing sunglasses to keep the sun from burning her eyes. Wait at least until the afternoon, or better yet early evening, when the hangover is going away, she's had some sleep, and hopefully she's remembering the good times from the previous night. Or else the next day. Basically wait until you have a fighting chance that she's in a receptive mood.
Then, text her with a specific time and place. If she's anything like me, after a drunken night out, the last thing I want to do is get drunk again (usually takes me at least a week before I even feel like touching alcohol again :-). So don't propose meeting at a bar. Even if you're proposing it for the next weekend, she won't be in the mood to even think about a bar again, so she'll just leave you on read, then forget about you when Friday comes along and she's ready to go out again.
Instead, propose something lowkey, like maybe a walk in a park, or a laid back dinner. Something that sounds good when you're still a little hung over and tired. Goal is to propose something that she would enjoy in her post-hungover state so as to maximize the chance that she says yes. This also reassures her that you're not just a club douchebag or an alcoholic who only spends times at bars. She's seen your drunk side. Now show her that's not all there is to you.
At that point you wait and see. If she wants to see you again, she'll get back to you. If not, you move on. Maybe you'll see her again at a local bar and reconnect. Or not.
Overall, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much. You did good in even approaching and hanging out with this girl all night when most guys didn't even have the guts to try. Keep doing that and eventually you'll make a real connection. Trying to turn a club / drunk / high connection into something lasting is always a low chance, even with the advice I gave above, so don't worry too much about it.
hennywinkler 1mo ago
You're a legend with this in depth response, appreciate you! You make some really solid points, I think this is all pretty accurate to what went down. I 100% was aware in the back of my mind the importance of closing that night, maybe it was a mix of her sobering up and me continuing to escalate kino that came across as desperation as the night went on.
Funny thing is I've had the most success at these raves more so than any traditional bar setting. Even made two LTRs from closing at raves (not the greatest women but I was 21 and learned a lot from them lol). I'm halfway tempted to send out a last hail mary invite to something this weekend, but I'd be doubletexting from my previous message that she never answered. So it's a matter of dignity for me I guess.
Do you have any idea what the Instagram stuff is about? She follows me but won't accept my request to follow her back, normally it's the reverse with women. Just power play or a soft rejection?
Anyway, it's been so long now that the night's starting to blur, I don't even remember 100% how her face looks like. I'll take into account this template for future encounters tho, I think this is solid. Thanks again
First-light 1mo ago
She is used to being hit on and has options.
She had a nice evening and probably doesn't think any more about it than that. There are a number of possible reasons why the trail went cold. Some could be you -48hrs is a long wait if you are used to attention from quality guys and the guy is good enough but not stand out- but most would be her. She has options and will be hit on plenty, may have a main guy who has come back into orbit, may be tired of men and casual hook ups and may just think -well it wasn't stand out and he wasn't that keen.
Its a bit like an athlete wondering why he didn't clear the bar or make a selection time. He can analyse it till the cows come home but in the end he didn't bring quite enough. However, he didn't really do anything really wrong either. He just needed one second more speed or 1/2 an inch more height. He is not seeing all the speed he did have that got him onto contention or all the height he did jump. Had he done everything perfect maybe he would have made the standard today but that is not really the point. You want to be able to make the standard on a bad day to be a contender at that standard or when you compete at that level you are an also ran at best. You have seen you are nearly there. No real loss this time. You will get there.
hennywinkler 1mo ago
Thanks dude, I like the athlete analogy a lot. True, not worth losing sleep over, I still consider it a W overall. Will keep living my best life, this stoked a fire in me tho, excited to get back out there this weekend.
Jackmoter 1mo ago
Hang on a second, let's remember that she let you get in an uber and go back to her house. Women don't just let anyone come back to the place they sleep.
So where do you think you really messed up? Coming down from MDMA might have messed up your interpretation of the situation. Maybe you started getting in your own head after she had to pay. It's not that big a deal bro, if anything it is an excuse to see her again so you can pay her back.
hennywinkler 1mo ago
Yeah that's the thing, I thought things went well at the time until the silence from her the days after. I was even cool with not closing at the time because it seemed to flow into a follow up. But like others have commented, she probably sobered up and realized the attraction wasn't as strong as she thought it was.
She coulda just been nice and wanted me to get home safe but like you said, I had just met her at a warehouse rave some 4 hours earlier. Don't think she takes home just anyone like that unless she has a rapport with them. (or who knows maybe she's that kinda girl but didn't get that impression)
I had fun and consider the night a W overall since I went in with zero expectations but I refuse to double text and will just leave it be forever if she wont respond to my latest message.
Jackmoter 1mo ago
Yeah man. I made a post about this sort of thing a few weeks ago.
I successfully had sex with the girl, in her flat. She gives me her number and then couldn't show any less interest over text.
Smv wise she was below me and yet no interest. That really bit my ego.
The worst part of playing this game rather than going down the relationship route is that girls will dip and any moment and you'll never know why.
It's all just character building.
preach 1mo ago
Good write-up but overall it comes down to a couple things.
First, you sometimes just have to strike when the iron is hot. She was down to bang and she communicated that's all she wanted. Better approach would have been to take her back to your place. However....
Second, you were already drinking and on a bit of MDMA, so don't worry about it. You probably dont even remember every single thing you said. It isn't worth beating yourself up over this, if it wasn't you it was gonna be someone else because she just wanted to feel desired and get banged. She isn't your girlfriend, she didn't give off wifey material vibes, doesn't sound like she even gave off relationship vibes. She just looked hot and was dtf, that's it. I promise you there are plenty more out there.
hennywinkler 1mo ago
Yup, this is the sentiment that's being echoede the most I think. Still had a hell of a night overall, can't complain too much. Not only do I not remember everything I said, but even her face is starting to become a blur for me lol. Like I mentioned, it's a unique situation where she follows me on instagram but has refused to accept my follow back request, typically it's the reverse for the pretty girls. So I've started to forget about her appearance over the week lol.
On to the next one.