No matter what, the topic of the conversation always goes off on a tangent until it lands on her & when it does, she speaks of herself in an unnecessarily humble manner or adopts a woe is me approach. Unfortunately someone close to me might be this. We could be talking about politics in another country but he often will manage to go on a tangent to 1 related topic then drift to another related topic before ending on a situation he is or has experienced that is vaguely related to the prior topics before stating how he was faced with adversity, overcame adversity, or remained humble in the face of the situation before mentioning some of his accomplishments before weaving it back to the original topic

How someone treats others is usually a foolproof sign of who they really are. Even if she carefully calculates her interactions with you, she'll likely show her true self to you through red flags when she interacts with other people.

It's easy to assume, she's just focused on me right now. She was mean to this other person but...

That's my two cents, at least. When getting close to a woman you might look at how she usually treats others but assume you'll be an exception, just because she's being nice to you at the moment. But some time passes and you realize she's started to treat you exactly like the people you thought you were an exception to.

Yeah. If she was born with a vagina, she's a covert narcissist. /s

I don't think you need to worry........ you'll spot it clear as day next time, without needing more background reading. It happened, you understand it, it'll flag up instantly from your subconscious next time.

Not that I'm an expert or anything, but I don't think a foolproof way to immediately spot a covert narcissist is even possible. That's why it's called 'covert' (or 'vulnerable', which I think is used either interchangeably, or often together).

The thing is, the covert/vulnerable narcissist doesn't possess any one particular characteristic that sets her apart from normal people. It's just that the narcissistic traits - which are normal to a certain degree - are all amped up when it comes to the full blown narcissist.

I mean, look at the description you yourself provided: Pretty much all of those traits can easily be ascribed to the vast majority of modern women. And a good chunk of them can probably be ascribed to women full stop (modern or not). I mean: 'Self-important'? 'Entitled'? 'Power-seeking'? 'Controlling'? 'Manipulative'? And to top it off, when it comes to narcissists, these are all traits that cover for a deeply insecure core of 'self'. Sounds familiar?

So you see, that's why you can't spot them so easily, and so quick. The covert narcissist can easily hide amongst normal people, and blend in like it's nobody's business. Damn it...I really don't want to use the s-word. Should I say the s-word? Fuck it, I'll say it: Narcissism operates on a spectrum.

In conclusion, I think dealing with covert narcissistic women sort of boils down to the regular TRP stuff (only with higher stakes): know when to walk away, don't fall into the trap of "arguing" and "opening up", cultivate having options, be a rock (a grey rock even), vet properly, and for a long time etc.

You might not spot a narcissist - or any of type of crazy - right away. But you can always exercise the option of walking away once things get uncomfortable, irritating, or even just not enjoyable in that sense you can't quite put your finger on. You don't always have to know exactly why you aren't having a good time - just that you aren't, and so bye, bye.

Try some criticism and see how they react. Some can mask it pretty well but there will still be a moment where you can see the anger flash on their faces

I doubt there is any fool proof test or science would have found it. However I think "Woe is me" on more than one topic is a strong indicator that she is self centred and likely to seek strength in the victim position. Woe is me and I was hard done by is a stronger indicator.

I have found this to be very true when assessing female clients on first meeting. I often have to quote them for services and clearly it is important to me to try to estimate how hard it will be to give service that satisfies. Men on average are a lot easier to quote for, women can be dangerous and are seldom generous when things do not go as planned (and in my job sometimes things don't turn out as they seem at the start), so its usually wiser to quote them more as you may be spending more time and energy on satisfying them. You have to know who the narcissist is if at all possible and quote them a lot, if you are lucky you will not get the work, if you are unlucky, at least you have a cushion of money in which to please them.

So past their experiences of similar people to me is a good way to judge them. If you can get them to tell you about other people who have given them services, its a good way to judge. If they were mistreated by all those they employed, in spite of the fact that they were very generous and fair, hell you better be wary. This is a covert narcissist. You will be next.

Clearly this rule works with exes. If all her exes were bad, abusive or just crap, you will be next. However most women know not to talk about exes when first meeting a man, so try talking about the plumber, the shop assistant, the doctor, the waiter and the cleaner. I would add in the boss too. Do they all treat her unfairly when all she is is kind and sweet?

This is a great question Vermy. I'll give you my experience, which is learnt through fucking up. Repeatedly.

• She appears to be a bit of loner. (this is because everyone that does know her can't tolerate her)
• She is very keen on alternative medicine. (every single chick I have met that is obsessed with alternative medicine is an ego maniac)
• She latches onto you very quickly, tells you that she loves you straight away (love bombing)
• She insults you or undermines you (and then passes it off as a joke)
• She says or does things to make you jealous
• She has low self confidence / body issues but is also a slut (her only method of validation is giving up the poon)

You already have plenty of info here. I will add only this:

! ) People will conflate Narcissists with borderline

II ) Apex Mindset have very good material on it, StoneR has some as well

I know narcissists very well. I can pick up on their vibes from a mile away.

I also know how to deal woth them and even destroy them.

Also, most women are covert narcissists, only a few are outright in-your-face narcissists.

They are not worth the hassle (unless they are malignant, then you have to sharpen your stick and be aggressive).