Hello. I'm bony and can not make more than 10 push-ups. I understand appearance and muscles are vital in attraction so it must be my priority.
I started a few months ago boxing to be more confident, have some basics in self-defense and move the body. I feel it is a great work for cardio, sensations of the body. And the sparring force me to be more aggressive.
But I'm afraid it will take a lot of time to become stronger just with boxing. By stronger I do not mean bodybuilding, but fit, balanced, masculine body.
I don't like the ambiance of gym and crossfit (I always feel the weakest in the group and ridiculous with girls stronger than me!), so I do some calisthenics home. But I must say I have trouble to keep a routine. Of course it's up to me to be more disciplined
What worked for you ? Going to gym, lifting at home, calisthenics ? And how do you stay disciplined with your routine ?
Thank you.
EDIT: Thank you for all your nice words and advices. It is really a great community, and it makes a lot of difference for me a man to be able to share my struggles and objectives.
I'm going to find a gym to work weights. And really look at dietetics and my alimentation.
I will tell you in six months ! :)
mattyanon Admin 1mo ago
faggot
Shut up. Go to the gym. LIFT.
What the fuck.
dreamer 1mo ago
Right ! :D
First-light 1mo ago
It sounds like you have some very sensible ideas -fit strong body not big body with excess weight. I think it makes less difference with women than many men think but it makes a big difference to the man and that in turn will improve his success with women considerably.
I think a mixture of things is probably ideal -so some proper endurance exercise -running or swimming are ideal to improve the mitochondria, circulation and heart, some weights -with the primary aim of strength not hypertrophy and some body weight exercises. I would get a athlete's book on strength and conditioning for some ideas.
I personally have my doubts about cross fit and such. There are few competitive athletes that do it. It tends to be exercise "in the middle" -drowning in lactate, heart hammering away. Some cross fit guys have truly terrible lactate thresholds -worse than non exercisers because they live "in the middle" -its not aerobic and its not power training, it does not give the full combined benefits, it gives ripped muscles. Serious athletes know that in training exposure to the hydrogen ions that come with lactate needs to be moderate or the athlete's progress is limited and the risk of injury when trying hard is heightened. Its a bad idea in anything but moderation -unless you just want unhappy ripped muscles. It is also extremely unlikely that what you need to do fits in with what a class is doing. You need your own program.
However weights are a staple of most athletes' training. You can really do power training with them in a way that body weight can't do -because its limited to your body weight. The best solution is get your own set of free weights to use at home. Get a decent Olympic bar with a sensible selection of plates and some adjustable dumbells that can go to larger weights. Get some stands and a bench. U tube will tell you all you need to know about how to do an exercise but you may need to watch several people to make sure you are getting the right answers and the full picture. Resistance bands are a good idea too.
You can start with larger sets but its best to get away from the hypertrophy sized sets once you are comfortable with the exercises and move to smaller harder sets of 4 sets of six, even smaller sets with experience. Certainly when you can do 4 sets of 8, it is time to add a plate. You want power, it makes a surprising difference to a lot of things -its like a free pass on skill and stamina in rather more ways than you might think. Creatine supplementation is a safe help with this sort of training as it relies heavily on the Creatine phosphate energy system. A sight calorie excess is ideal for strength training but only slight, a deficit will make it much harder,
Definitely do some calisthenics and body weight strength exercises.
Trying to use set days for set types of exercise can bear fruit, though one does need to be open to flexibility, especially when tired and ill.
Seeing the measurable progress is a huge help to motivation.
.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you for your detailled response !
Yes I have to do it to improve myself. I have became used to be weaker than others, and I understand now it is a very bad mental spirit (that's why I have begun boxing)
I agree with you about crossfit, and the need to make my program.
I have to accept that working with weights are indispensable to progress.
You are right about doing it at home, but I have not a lot of places and I'm afraid to not keep the motivation at home. I think to force myself to go to gym reduces the discipline needed: when here, I have not choice but to work :D
I plan to go to gym 2 or 3 by week the morning when remote working, and other days to make some quick/basic calistehnics before going to work.
Thank you for the detail for the sets, it's a big question for me. To build "true" strenght, esthetic and usable, not hypertrophy. Can you confirm I must aim around 8 reps by steps, for around 4 steps ? (at the beginning I think it will be more 2 or 3 steps :D )
I'm not confortable for now to take supplements, but I'm definitely going to look at my alimentation.
Thank you again for your response !
First-light 1mo ago
The sets and reps are hard to describe without having worked with the athlete for a bit, so please forgive me if what I say isn't a perfect fit but I will have a go.
First teach your body the movements without great stress as it will pay dividends later.
At first 2 or 3 sets is a good idea and initially starting with a lighter weight and a higher number of reps is good. You want to learn good form and it is hard to learn to do anything well if you are pushed close to max, so be humble in what you pick up in your first efforts.10, 12 or even 15 reps would be OK at first in 2 or 3 sets. Going to a gym will let you ask people about your form but do also watch U tube stuff because you will get detailed 15 minute explanations of how and why not just some gym jock's 30 second take on it.
View the initial period as learning the exercises, not as strength training, though it will make you stronger and you will get some slight hypertrophy too. To incentivise yourself by setting goals you can progress through, you could start with a week of finding out what weight you can just do 15 reps with. Next week do 3 sets if you can, 2 if you can't of 15 reps with the best style you can. When you think the style is right and the guys around you do too, then add the smallest plate you can find to each end of the bar, see what this does to the number of reps in the third week. Maybe you can do 12, maybe 10? Consolidate there for a week or two. Then add a plate. Does this land you around 3 sets of 8? Hopefully this will have been a fun progression where you see yourself moving through stages but also learning important stuff.
Remember that you are going to get stronger muscles but also your muscle recruitment will get better and this will make you quite a bit stronger too. If you start with the lighter weights, higher reps and full range of motion, the learned muscle recruitment has a better chance of learning the right patterns to then get all fibres to fire together on which will save you trouble later with fibres all firing together on poor patterns.
5 weeks is long enough for an athlete to deserve an easier week, 4 weeks is often the period chosen for a harder training block because it fits to a month but 5 is about the biological amount and by the time you take a week or 10 days of gentler stuff (A day or two off? a set less? 2 reps less?), you are messing up the round months anyway. When you have done at least 5 weeks of getting used to things and had at least a lighter week to consolidate (could be 2 cycles if that felt right -8 to 10 weeks of training with 2 weeks easier), then if you feel ready try the strength side a bit.
For strength training we need hard reps in small quantity with good quality. Experienced athletes may strength train with 5 or 4 reps in a set. I would say start with 6. Since the reps are few, adding the extra set after at some stage to make 4 sets is a good idea if you can do it. Try putting a set of a totally different exercise between sets to allow a fuller recovery.
So work to a position where you are doing sets of 6 hard, quality reps, ideally 4 sets, 3 is OK if not, particularly in a younger man (your young muscles take hints better than my older ones, sadly). The last set should be pretty hard but not with your form collapsing. As you get better you will find the last set is easier. Then its time to add a rep somewhere in the sets, then another and so on till you are doing 3 or 4 full sets of 8 reps and almost failing. Great, you made it. Clear demonstrable strength gains. This training thing is working. Now stay there and consolidate till comfy, even drop back a week to 7 or 6 reps, then add the next plate. This will probably land you back on fighting for the 6th rep. If you can only do 5, no worries. Just work away as before till you do all your sets up to 8 reps, then consolidate, add the next plate and pat yourself on the back for a good job well done.
You could eventually move to 4 sets of 4 that grow to 6, then you add a plate but I think its wiser to start with sets of 6 growing to 8. By the time you master that you will be clearly progressing and have learned enough to understand what works for your body.
Nutrition -yeah not too processed, plenty of variety, quality protein not protein shakes if you can help it. Fresh eggs, fresh fish, fresh meat, wild meat if you hunt, lots of greens, quality carbs not terribly processed. Its not rocket science but it can be a bit of work to change habits. Supplementation -most of its bollocks, some of it dangerous bollocks, some of it expensive bollocks. If you fancy something and it makes you happy -like say cordiceps mushroom- it probably makes you perform a bit better. If it has no serious side effects why not? but there is little that is proven to really work with no negative effects either. A scoop of creatine a day is probably a good thing. Its cheap, works and it appears to not have any ill effects after decades of testing. Stay the hell away from the small dick stuff like the anabolics. Your health is worth more.
Another thing is that in what I wrote earlier I said "lactate threshold" when I should have said "aerobic threshold" I mean the point at which lactate starts to gradually mount in the blood after an initial dip not the point at which its starts to shoot up to spike. An athlete with good mitochondria should show an initial dip in lactate as exercise load rises as lactate is the favourite fuel of muscles and brain and the mitochondria are just switching from things like fat to their favoured food as it becomes more available as a waste product from the fast twitch muscles. Cross fit guys/ gym class sort of guys are often very poor at this as they mostly condition upset fast twitch muscles and don't do the long slow work to build the aerobic system. I would condition strength and the aerobic system adding a sensible amount of high aerobic work (like your boxing for example) in the middle to make the heart hammer but not so much as to regularly load the muscles with more lactate than they can devour that burns them with hydrogen ions.
I hope that helps. Like I say it will be a bit specific to you in the end, so don't worry if you do different. Ask away if you like. But overall, first learn the good form and full range of motion of big compound exercises (deadlifts will do you so much more good than say biceps curls), then move to small sets of hard reps. A strong aesthetic body does not require isolating muscles and working the crap out of them (not much in life does this). Isolating muscles really helps hypertrophy but you want them to all work together in balance and harmony, to have useful strength, so big compound exercises are the way to get the biggest gains.
Enjoy.
MarianaCoat 1mo ago
I'm still remember my beginnings:
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you, that's good advices ! I must learn about BCAA.
Good tip to listen funny to be more approachable, instead of being stressed :D
Totally agree about the avoid pain, it is a long journey.
MrSupreme 1mo ago
Get your nutrition in shape, lots of protein and fats,lower your carb intake and make it quality carbs like potatoes and rice instead of bread. Calisthenics is awesome and will get You far,stop trying to flagpole overnight just to impress people and find a serious routine that will progressively get you in shape and stronger. Do it for yourself, specially if you think of going to the gym,the gym is not the best place for pickup, and not the best place to make friends either.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you. I have definitely to learn basics nutritions ! Yes, I have to go to the gymn to myself, and accept it is not a good place for social.
Intrepid_Place53900 1mo ago
what's your height and weight and age?
You likely need more calories , add protein shakes , try to keep the sugar on the low side
Eat meat, chicken, seafood,etc.
adding muscles takes time, you need the building blocks though, (food) to gain it.
Don't feel bad about starting in the gym, who cares if you are the smallest or weakest. use that as a measuring post, some motivation
Gaining muscles and strength will take time and dedication. Got to start somewhere.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you.
Yes I have to accept it is going to take time and to begin weak.
No-Stress-Cat 1mo ago
MEAT. EAT LOTS OF MEAT. I like calisthenics myself. Can do it at home, no need for exercise equipment, and no risk of dropping a 400-lb bar on your neck when you're by yourself.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you !
I'm going to look at my diet :D
ObliviousDuck 1mo ago
This attitude makes no sense. How are you supposed to get stronger then? Are you waiting for the whole world to become weaker than you before you can start training? Let me tell you a secret, nobody at the gym gives a shit about how weak you are. You are not the center of the universe.
Now, if for some reason you want to forgoe the most efficient way to become stronger, that is, barbells, I recommend you visit bodyweightfitness on that site that starts with the letter R and get yourself a program and follow it religiously. Just keep in mind that it's less efficient than training at the gym with shit ton of weights you can easily change and you will always be missing on the king movements, back squats and deadlifts.
dreamer 1mo ago
Right ! :D
I have become used to be weak all my life, and it is NOT a good mental.
I'm going to do barbells, it is my understanding it is the more efficace for "true" strenght.
ObliviousDuck 1mo ago
Here are some reasons why they are more efficient with your time:
1) Despite how intimidating they look, they are very simple to use. With a few basic compound movements such as bench press, shoulder press, rows, deadlifts and squats, you can train your whole body, forever.
2) Easier and finer progression. When you progress you just add weight, there is no need to learn a totally new move and deal with rep ranges. There is less fucking around. You can lift more for 5 reps? Just add more weight.
3) I challenge you to find a calisthenics leg movement that can duplicate a 315# deadlift, or a 225# squat, which you can achieve within a few months with good diet.
4) Iron doesn't lie. Are you stalling or regressing? Barbells won't forgive you for having a shit diet, they will own your ass.
Do learn some calisthenics for accessory work. Also, absolutely incorporate pull ups and chin ups as main lifts along the big five mentioned above. I recommend you buy yourself some rings at some point if you want to incorporate more calisthenics in your workouts.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1mo ago
Also
Bigger, Leaner, Stronger
This book was almost all I needed for a great lifting program and understanding what to eat and how much etc.
dreamer 1mo ago
I have bought the book, thanks !
Wyrm 1mo ago
Let us know how you rate the book.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1mo ago
I always cringe when I hear guys say they do this instead lifting. It always comes across as a cope to just not actually lift. It's one of my biggest pet peaves of self-improvement anecdote.
Dude, who cares if you are one of the Smallest guys in the gym? Everyone in the gym knows everyone else in the gym is working on goals. Even the models in the gym were not once models. They know. Stop worrying about it. The gym has markedly low judgement compared to other places.
Also you need to eat dude. Being boney is not going to cut it with women u less they are malnourished and drug addicted or have serious mental problems. I'm trying to finish my first JackedPact post which is the lifting forum on here. The post is on powerful, yet budget eating
Dude just go to the gym. Once you start seeing gains the addiction sustains itself after a few weeks/couple months
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you. I'm going to do it ! If I'm able to support sparring, I should be able to support gym ! :D
The truth is I'm more a boner with fat, so I'm not confortable with eating more. You are right I have to really really look at dietetics and my alimentation.
Thank you again !
coolsocks00 1 1mo ago
I had to build a good routine at the gym before i managed to get strict with lifting at home. Now i do the latter on some of my days to save time, but it’s not the same.
Dont be such a pussy. I recommend just biting the bullet and getting a gym membership. Find a good starter program like Starting Strength or DM me and i’ll find u something.
Start consuming more calories and getting enough protein. 0.7 grams of protein per pound bodyweight per day is a good target.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you.
Yes the reality is it is hard to have routine at home.
You are right, I'm going to try again crossfit or lifting. Yes there are all these big men and strong girls, but I must focus on myself, not others.
Do you think crossfit is a good way to build global strength ?
I'm going to think about calories ! :)
coolsocks00 1 1mo ago
Compare yourself to your past self, not to others. Regulars will also respect you for your efforts, when you stick around.
Yes. Personally not a big fan, but you can get solid results from that too.
This is a misconception, along with things like believing in different body types and that different sports make you look a specific way. They dont.
You have to eat more to gain size however you train / want to look.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you, I have to think about the alimentation.
I'm going to try a weight gym at the end of the week (after some searchs, it seems that CF + boxing would not be the best)
Lone_Ranger 1 1mo ago
Look up 5x5 workouts online. https://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5/workout-program/
Its a great place to start. It is a simple program perfect for beginners. It pushes past the bullshit and the bro-science and it lets you in on the secret - you are going to have to life heavy. Not straight away, but you are going to end up lifting heavy.
The second thing I would say is that you need to fix your brain. Your motivation is all wrong. You write
If your motivation is to get buff to be more attractive, its highly unlikely that you are going to have the willpower to do what it takes to actually change your body type. Lifting to the point where it actually transforms how you look is not for the faint hearted - it will take years and a shit load of hard work.
The kind of dudes that succeed at this are the kind of dudes that are doing it for themselves. They like lifting. The like the feeling it gives them, they love the endorphins, the sweat, the grind. They like that feeling the next day when you wake up get out of bed and can barely lift your spoon to eat your scrambled eggs, because they shredded so hard in the gym the night before.
If you want to lift to transform, then forget about everyone else and do it for you.Find out how to enjoy it. Make some gym buddies. Get youself a bag just for the gym, put some chalk in there, lifting shoes and a belt.
Prepare to learn to love squats. Most people hate them. Then learn to love deadlifts. Prepare to eat more chicken that you are comfortable with. Muscles are made in the kitchen, not in the gym. Your new best friends are going to be good diet and early to bed.
That is what it takes. You still want to improve your body?
dreamer 1mo ago
You are right, I have to do it for me, like boxing.
Do you think that crossfit is a good way to build strength ? I do not really like to be forced to follow a program, but it seems more global for the body than lifting.
I don't feel cool for now with eating more (I think I already eat too much bread and cheese!), but I will try again crossfit and see if I feel hungry. And focus on white meat instead of prepared dishes.
I'm going to look at these program, thank you.
Lone_Ranger 1 1mo ago
I don't rate Crossfit. One of my buddies is obsessed with it, and it seems expensive for what it is. And its full of dykey women. A lot of the time they seem to be focused on rushing lifts, which is a terrible idea. You need to lift in your own time, at your own pace. Rushing a lift seems like a short cut to poor form and injury.
Boxing is great - I did it at college. It's quite educational and it was just guys.
If you say 'I do not really like to be forced to follow a program' then I have bad news for you..................
dreamer 1mo ago
I totally agree with you. In crossfit everyone rushs, but I feel I have to take time to make good technics, and to make my program.
Yes, I feel in boxing people are nice, careful - even if punches are sometimes hard :D And it works all the body.
Right! :D It is my english, I wanted to say I do not like to follow the rythm of a group
Lone_Ranger 1 1mo ago
Your English is great bro - keep doing you!
Have fun with the boxing. Top tip - if you find yourself in with a 'sparing bully', just quit on the spot and make sure you never spar with him again. Every boxing gym has a sparing bully, that wants to 100% while you go at 60%. They very quickly find that no-one will spar with them.
A good sparing partner will slightly pull all punches. Nothing is learnt from injury, in fact it means more recovery time, which means less is learnt.
A bout is different.
Delaney 1mo ago
You did not mention food, which implies you're not really considering it. Food is half the equation for gaining muscle, so make sure that's good, otherwise you'll struggle.
Ironically your first year is usually when you see an explosive amount of progress when you're building muscle, and then the magic wears off. You don't need to worry about this if your food intake is good.
Wrong attitude. Just keep going to the gym and crossfits. Eventually you'll stop caring, which will also improve your confidence.
Location is everything when it comes to routines. Dedicating one location to an activity strengthens the idea that those locations are for that one activity, which is why working out at home was a losing battle for me. I just wanted to lie down in bed. Going to the gym keeps me focused.
dreamer 1mo ago
This really makes sense. Does this concept come from a book ?
I'm going to try a weight gym instead of trying to make exercices at home.
Wyrm 1mo ago
First, eating/diet is number 1, by far. It doesn't have to be low calorie. Everything depends on your protein, macro- and icro-nutrients intake, which works with your metabolism.
Weight gym is best for bulk by a huge amount. Hence the hit the gym comments by everyone. Boxing and Mixed Martial Arts have huge injury problems. But, on the flip side are highly Alpha Male, self-assured, confidence like nothing else that you can do besides actual combat training.
Same injury issues with repetitive impact exercises or sports. Jump rope, running, soccer, basketball, football, etc. But can be beneficial for fun and althletics based on interest. Swimming is lowest impact with the best cardio. Next is cycling, but neither will build bulk or muscles, just muscle density and endurance.
Hope that helps.
dreamer 1mo ago
Thank you.
I'm definitely going to study dietetics and be mre rigorous with my alimentation !
Yes, I have to just go to gym, do weights and accept it is a long and hard way.
I totally agree that boxing raises the risk of injuries, but also raises a lot the confidence. It is my experience at beginner, fighting myself, having little injuries, but also being more assertive after. For example at work I do not let again an angry collegue to bully me. Or if in dancing another man hurt me (because he does not look around), I stop and tell him insteand of letting it go.
There is a lot of jump rope :D I avoid running because of the risk of injuries, do cycling everyday for commute.
I should try swimming, but it is hard to find a good teaching.
dreamer 1mo ago
I think that you are right. It is hard for me to work out at home in the morning or evening because of distractions and too much thinking.
I'm going to try again crossfit or lifting and try to not care about others !
I had the impression that taking more food is for bodybuilding.