Hi everyone,
I am here with an update on a thread that I have created in the beginning of October. If you are interested, read it before this one. You can find it here:
https://www.forums.red/p/asktrp/321418/on_the_verge_of_divorce
A lot has changed since then and I have to take my hat off to the experienced guys on here, that assessed the situation spot on. As you can probably guess already, there is no happyending here. At least when it comes to the idea of keeping the family together and living happily ever after. We shall see about happiness of the individual members of the now broken family in the future.
Please allow me to make this post long as I believe that the original thread gained a bit of interest and I believe the ending is similarly interesting. Also I want to do a justice to the story. And again, please excuse my English, it is not my first language. Here we go.
So after the OP was posted and I’ve tried to take few advice to heart. Work out, STFU and read the sidebar. 1 and 3 are pretty self explanatory. So what did I do when it came to STFU. For a full month instead of begging, pleading and explaining I tried to distance myself on purpose from her. I let her start the interactions and only react to it. If she was nice, I was nice, if she asked for something, I’ve answered, If she came at me with shit, the shit was going right back. It had two effects. We barely talked to each other after few weeks and the relationship went from bad to worse. Secondly, I have slowly allowed myself to let go, I’ve started to see her in worse light and realized I can’t probably trust her anymore. Then my car broke down.
We had to share a car for about two weeks, going to and from work, picking ourselves up etc. Since the break up in July she got herself a new phone that she kept locked and she was on it constantly. I’ve played with an idea of snatching the phone out of her hands and run away as that phone would be able to answer a lot of my questions. But I also knew that it would be it, that would be the end of it all. One day when we traveled together again I was able to catch the phone opening gesture with a corner of my eye. After couple of days when I have found the phone unattended for a brief moment, I tried the gesture and it opened right up. My heart skipped a beat and I shut it down in panic. I went to google to find out ways to get the whatsapp messages out of there. It took me couple of days to learn how to connect whatsapp to my computer and another few days to find the phone unguarded and execute the connection. But on the 1st of November I had it all on my computer.
The findings were truly shocking to me. So to get the story complete we have to go back few years when she secretly started wishing to fall in love again. And then before Christmas last year. Bam. It happened, she fell in love with a colleague from work. It was all platonic right until the June this year where they spend a night together cuddling and kissing. She was unbearably bitchy to me since then and she broke up with me in July. Right after that she ran to him and they had something where not “everything happened but it was still whoooa”. At that time I was in the deepest emotional shit since my teenage years when my dad passed away and I admit I was fighting my demons and had the darkest thoughts entering my mind. At around September or early October they had an intercourse and that sealed the deal for me.
There is thousands and thousands of messages in the group chat between her and her two female friends from work whom I call the witches. I was only able to go back around 14 days in the messages because the computer started freezing up under the amount of messages. But then she confided in this friend and that friend, so after some time I had a full picture.
When I first saw the messages I was surprised there wasn’t a whole lot about me but about this new guy. Apparently he is married with 3 children the youngest is only 3 years old. His wife found out about this and he was probably given a second chance so he ended it with my wife. So apparently it was her who was going through a break up and emotional turmoil and needed help. I thought I was the one in dire straights but I was only losing my family. She was losing the man who she "loved very much and the true ONE". She was also jealous of his wife, which I would find pretty amusing if I wasn’t sick to my stomach.
The whole chat is pretty fascinating to read. They are all very vulgar, deragotary towards all men and at the same time behaving like 16 year olds being excited about a single comment or like on social media from the guys they are chasing after.
My wife now hates the guy she fucked, hates his wife, hates me of course and wants to fuck a tall guy with a big dick. And apparently those guys exists because one like this was checking her out in the supermarket the other day. There is very little thought or regards about our children in there. I am being called by the worst names possible in these chats. English is not that colourful to describe what I’m being called. It would roughly translate as motherfucker, cocksucker, dickhead, idiot, imbecile, moron or primitive. I'm being called that both by my wife and the witches who I met only briefly once in my life. The name calling of myself also spills over to every possible friend of hers and her parents. I was in shock and disbelieve.
All in all we are divorcing and she is moving out. I am truly and utterly over her. It still breaks my heart whenever I look at my children and I am still in disbelieve why this all happened. It will be incredibly hard for them I believe. They are still oblivious to everything and I still think all of this wasn’t necessary. However, I can’t get past the infidelity, the name calling and the sheer amount of disrespect towards me just tops it off. I can’t look at her anymore, I can’t talk to her, I truly wish she was gone already. I don’t even know how we are going to handle the business side of things now.
On the bright side, I may be able to keep the house If I “behave” . I was promised that by her and her father and I have them both on record. I don’t necessarily trust them but if they would back out of that promise I have measures in place to not to make it easy for them. Kids will be 100 pct shared custody. So all in all it is probably not that bad compared to the other divorce raped guys in the western world. I know one myself. My thoughts are with you guys.
To finish the story off I met this girl online recently and I was able to talk her into sharing a bed with me at the end of the year. It still might not happen but the hotel room is booked. And she told me she’s looking forward to it. But that is a different story for the new me and my new life ahead.
Big thank you to GOINGTHEDISTANCE who reached out to me the day the OP was posted and we kept in touch since. He was my willow and was listening to my sobbing as the story was unfolding.
Thank you guys for your replies and insights in the October OP. I’m glad I have found TRP as the pink glasses are truly off and I will never look at women the same. I am still new to all this and have quite a few books to go through and make my own sense about it.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
maltys
Seagram7 2y ago
When she cheats, it's not just the fucking, i.e. the infidelity; it's all the other stuff that goes with it: the lying, the gaslighting, the disrespect, the backstabbing...but most of all, when you get a glimpse into her mind via the chat messages and you see that she says the most horrible things about you and how she really thinks about you...there is no going back from that.
If you start to get soft and contemplate taking her back, reread those messages
Durek_The_Bald 2y ago
Thanks for the update. There are always lessons to learn from real life stories like these, and the discussions around them. Glad to see you're able to keep some focus on your opportunities in all this. Guys who cling on to failed relationships only contribute to their own downfall.
The ins and outs (pun intended) of how exactly she went about checking out aren't really important. Whether she fucked this and that guy, and whatever she's been telling her girlfriends are just curiosities , but not really of any importance. The outcome is the same, so don't let stuff like that get in the way of what's in the kids' best interest (and ultimately your own). Life's too short for detective work into stuff to resent. How ever it happens, it's better not to be stuck with someone who isn't into you. And as such, she's handed you a golden opportunity here, to get out with your head held high.
Lift, be there for your kids, nurture your friendships to other men, and just generally go about your life how you would if she were dead. New women is cool, but not really a focus either. Sometimes you'll score, sometimes you'll get flaked on, and sometimes you'll get outright rejected. No matter what, you can never place your happiness in the hands of women.
Good luck. My gut feeling is telling me your life is going to be better going forwards than it was with her. And as long as you both make things as stable and convenient as possible for your kids, they're going to be fine too. It's the war you wanna avoid. As long as people avoid that, kids are usually fine with divorce.
Her situation as it is now is pretty shitty. And her opportunities with men will be limited. How things ended with her affair partner is probably going to hammer that home for her on a subconscious level. So be prepared for her trying to bait you into conflict. Women don't like ownership over the consequences of their actions, and prefer someone to blame. A soon-to-be ex husband is convenient in that regard. Ignore the shit out of any such bait. And don't take her back if she falls back on that "option". Be steadfast, and move forwards constructively.
"A life well lived is the best revenge".
lurkerhasarisen 1 2y ago
Listen and heed this, OP. This is great advice. I want to especially reiterate the part about never taking her back.
In all likelihood, going forward your life is going to get better and hers is going to get worse. She's well-situated to hop on the CC, and she probably will. That never ends well for women, and when the reality finally dawns on her she's likely to try to recapture what she threw away.
Don't fall for it.
Of course it's possible that she'll land on her feet. (Unlikely, but possible.) In that case she'll always think she was justified and you'll never experience the schadenfreude that would come from her groveling to you.
If that happens. .. oh well. Don't live your life in hopes of her crawling back and having the opportunity to (rightfully) call her a whore and tell her to f-off. Just live your life well. The opposite of love isn't hate: it's indifference.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
Lurker is 100% right. She will probably try to come back to you.
Don't do it.
Basically, this woman is nothing to you now. She is not part of your new life. You gave her everything and she spat in your face.
I still have zero contact with my ex wife. If she died tomorrow, I wouldn't go to the funeral.
Overkill_Engine Endorsed Contributor 2y ago
There is definitely a common pattern with women covertly branch swinging and picking a fight with their current official man to give them an excuse to rationalize doing such before or after the fact.
Durek_The_Bald 2y ago
Yup. Outsourcing accountability = priority numero uno.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
that was my experience.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
I went back and re-read your post, and my original comments / convo with you.
Turns out I was correct, exactly correct. The similarities are startling between your situation and the situation I was in about 13 years ago.
When it comes to couples arguing, "It's never about what its about" is the truest thing Ive ever heard.
So....what to do now? Be prepared for a long hard struggle, and be prepared to fight your corner. You say that you 'have it on record' that you will keep the house. I would be very doubtful that it will pan out that way.
I think you have enough information now. The tips I would give you are these;
SwarmShawarma 2y ago
@maltys
Depending where the proceeding are. But yeah UK judges will see less problematic party, in better light. [edit: it doesn't mean not picking on hard facts like her not providing statements on time]
Also you can save a lot of money, by lawyer doing just procedural [minimal amount of] stuff.
if you were thinking: " well she is better off not doing it"...
She will do it only to piss you off even if she would loose out. If you still think it is illogical to assume her doing stupid thing, then remember that she has decided to fuck MARRIED Kevin from sales and risk the future and stable home for kids.
just don't expect men to be redpilled, it is not common, enjoy stuff you can
choose paperless statements, change cards so the long number is not the same anymore, passwords - especially if you have one for all password
Overkill_Engine Endorsed Contributor 2y ago
@maltys
On top of the changes to your billing, get any and all utilities in your name only and make sure the providers know to only accept orders directly from you and why.
In many areas they are legally obligated to comply with this or risk getting stuck with the bill themselves. Check with a divorce lawyer to make sure you are current on the local minutiae of such.
SwarmShawarma 2y ago
@maltys
With level of hate toward you and especially with support of her hateful crazy psycho associates invest in recording devices, eventually make sure its legal. It saved my ass.
Mobile to use camera rec, while you make a call on the other one. £25 WiFi cam with mobile app for hOuse monitoring and motion rec and motion discovery notifications.
I would modify some equipment and put cam inside, so it is not obvious you have it installed, if things still have not blown out of proportion.
Consider that many stupid ideas to fuck with you will come from coven.
Audio rec will be insufficient in many cases.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
have you been through a divorce? It's not the 1500s any more. They are not interested in any discussion, will not allow any discussion about infidelity and betrayal. That's not what the courts are for.
Rightly so. Adultery is not illegal, so the courts have zero business talking about it. If you try bringing it up during proceedings, you will be told to shut up.
SwarmShawarma 2y ago
You come quite adversarial.
Dude is not UK national and might get divorce proceedings elsewhere. Blanket statement might not apply although it is generally correct in UK, which I know from my exp.
Based on your input I have added my complimentary comments, I hope you dont mind.
maltys 2y ago
Nah, none of that is necessary. The divorce will be no fault. I only went to her phone because she lied through her teeth the whole time and things just didn't add up. I don't know why she lied. Had she said. Look, I'm seeing someone else, that's it, we are done. It might have stung a little more but I would be over it much quicker. Instead she decided to put me through hell, how this and that is my fault, how bad of a person I am and how she can't be with such a person. Even though she was with this person for 19 years, yea ok. My main focus is to protect my bottom line now.
SwarmShawarma 2y ago
Sure.
My divorce was a no fault, split of assets would never be too complicated in my case. She 'said' she cheated but there is high probability she actually didn't and only might have used a 'statement' as an excuse to nuclear shit test me. Also we had very agreeable years of marriage. She was feminine.
Yet she was influenced by her psycho, husband cheating friend. Influenced is important word. It is not that she was not capable of agreeing to this influence. Although I need to admit she was not the best playing angry, sleazy bitch part - at least on site. Behind my back she obviously pushed some statement on police station that didn't hold up.
I almost landed in arrest - but had video evidence to save my ass. Could have lost liquidity [she used friend's free lawyer services to send me pieces of paper constantly to get reaction], which I didn't engage with.
If it would come to that, if you'd be called to police station for friendly chat, there is 3rd party lawyer on duty that will accompany you for free, the same police station will be able to book one for you once you'll ask them for a service, or you can use hired gun
she did it "right", if romance wouldn't work, she would try different branch, or she already planned /did, in the meantime she had place to come back to.
yeah, generally not really, unless she would have somewhere to go to and wouldn't be afraid to be without a man/attention. Also evolutionary speaking you could snap her neck on the day she said it and another 365d/year
like other guys said, women don't want to take blame for anything, it is hard to get them acknowledge stuff, even if she is in "love"
maltys 2y ago
I hope it wouldn't come to any drama. We've already had difficult discussions over things and even we didn't reach a conclusion that I liked (signed paperwork over the house), I have her promise and a promise of her father at least. There is a nubmer of reasons why it is morally right to leave it to me, even though she might have a legal right to it. If they back out of it, then I'll have to fight for it.
True. I might have snap her neck the day I found out also. She ran that risk the minute she opened her legs. Well I didn't snap her neck, in fact I didn't say a beep. I just made a cross over her in my mind and spat on our wedding picture that's still hanging in the hall. I have also contemplated the idea of fucking Kevin up but that was only a fantasy that I played in my head. I didn't do anything of course, what is the point?
yea I know that now, didn't know this while it was happening
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
I feel as if I know your (soon to be ex) wife! I've met many of them, even married one. The bullshit started with my ex wife when she was about 38.
The cause of all this is entitled feminism. Married women who are good looking get to about 38 and they are disgusted that they don't have what 'strong independent women' have. In today's modern society, a married woman is 'low status', because you have a useless man telling you what to do. The role models of the modern feminist era are all single and fuck whomever they want and run up huge debts and generally behave like children.
When my wife divorced me, she was a hot 40 year old, and she hated me. She was disgusted by me, because I was a beta cuck that looked after her and did everything for her.
What she found was that it is very easy to get laid at 40.........but LTR? No. This is what your wife will find out. Sure, she can get laid. Plenty of dudes will want to fuck her. But that's all they want from her. She (and other women her age) don't understand that nobody will want to LTR them.
My ex wife is now 52, and she can just about get laid, but nobody is going to want to LTR her. She is going to die alone. She made her bed, now she has to lie in it.
It's going to be very different for you. Many many women will want to marry you. In fact, I would be very careful about jumping into an emotional relationship. Without knowing it, you are emotionally hurt right now, and it would be easy to steal your heart with some kind words and tender love.
I found myself at 42, alone for the first time since I was born. It was at first terrifying, and then liberating. I became my true self at that age.
maltys 2y ago
hi guys, thanks again for your responses. It is surprising how many of you had it spot on in the OP thread. I just didn't want to believe or rather I wanted to be absolutely sure that there is no way to save it before I move on. Now I know what is what and it is a case closed for me. I am not taking her back, not that she wants me to. In fact I am quite repulsed by her right now. It is one thing to be replaced and left behind and another thing to see how little respect she has for me and the way she bad mouthes me left and right. Again I don't understand it, maybe she's rationalizing for herself why she's doing what she's doing but frankly I don't care anymore. If she finds somebody or be on CC I don't care. As far as I know she still "in love" with her Kevin but Kevin is nowhere to be seen. He's with his family and if he's got a chance to fuck her he would probably do it again. Or maybe I'm wrong and he leaves his family and 3 kids and be forever in love with her. I don't care.
I'm aiming for this. But not really to take revenge, I just want my life to turn around for the better. Afterall I am ultimately the one to be blamed here. I have slipped, I have lost focus and I have become complacent. To my excuse I didn't know any better. I thought I have accomplished my goals somewhat and can take a nap. I'm going to change that.
And I aim for this as well. I am not there yet I still feel betrayed, hurt, confused and angered but I will get there. From what I've read women rarely regret leaving the relationship and with the amount of rationalizing she has done so far I don't think she will regret it in the future. But I might be wrong and not that I care.
I know, I have re-read your story in the OP quite a few times. In fact one time she handed me her phone to videorecord our daughter. I sort of pressed something and it went to something else I went to press the video button again to go back. She sees me pressing buttons and jumps across the room with a look on her face that I would only describe as insane to snatch the phone back. I remembered you and I knew also at that moment. I have gained access to her phone two weeks later but even before that I have reached the conclusion that I cannot trust her anymore.
As far as the divorce go. We will have no fault divorce if it is the right term. So no one is going dig what happened where and why. Also all the details will be all hashed out before going to court. Lawyers will be involved to prepare the paperwork and we both need to agree to terms beforehand.
This is my experience also so far. Smaller or bigger deal or agreement doesn't apply the next minute. I have to prepare for this to be the case again. The fact her father is included in the promise gives me small hope. We shall see.
As far as women go I cannot be a lone wolf, I need affection and intimacy in my life to fuel me. I don't know how I'm gonna go about it just yet. For now I have found myself a friend that is into me and things are going well. I must say I feel a lot better since we met and I once again was intimate with a girl. Maybe I add another one and another one and live like that for a while. I just don't know yet. I don't need and I don't want a relationship right now and this girl so far seems like a perfect fit for what I need. Again we shall see. But the fact I was able to get back on track in 2 months after I allow myself to let go of her kind of suprises me. And this girls is all over me. Maybe I am not the village idiot here afterall.
One way or another. This is it, boys. My second half of my life has just started I've turned 45 few weeks ago. I have done quite a lot of thinking over the last 6 months and I think I have a plan. I'm glad I have found these pages there is a lot be learn here. Well, in fact my wife led me here, I was just following her actions and tried to understand them. I don't necessarily agree with all the aspects of what I read or learn so far but I will just make my own sense about it all. I will lurk on these pages from time to time, I don't see me being a regular poster but if anyone wants to get in touch, to see how I'm doing, feel free to do so.
I'm going to leave 3 points that I have learnt here that stayed with me and I have repeated these to myself countless times. Maybe it will help some other poor BP sad sack who will find this story.
The kids are your family now. Women are the easiest to replace. STFU.
Thank you all. Happy holiday. Take care. maltys
Intrepid_Place53900 1 2y ago
Maltys, excellent to see you are collecting the best points in this thread.
*Live your best life for you, best revenge you can get
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
So much to reply to, so little time.
Feel free to message me directly if you want to.
Part of progress is working out what went wrong, so that you don't repeat your mistakes with another woman.
maltys 2y ago
I think I have become domesticated over the years, I wasn't interesting anymore, it was clear I wasn't going anywhere, she got bored of me. I think I should have been more assertive the minute I have realized that it isn't working for me in the bedroom. But that is years in the past. With the knowledge I had then it is also possible that this outcome was inevitable no matter what I would do. I could have had a fighting chance with what I know now. But back then I didn't know any better.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
It may even be that you didn't do anything wrong. You wrote about how your ex-wife is still pining for that guy she had an affair with, because he went back to his wife.
If he actually left his wife and settled down with your ex-wife, its probable that she would get bored of him as well once she had domesticated him.
That is my experience - the minute you give everything to a woman, your whole life and soul, they lose interest in you. You may not notice straight away. But this is what makes marriage so difficult. Once a woman gets her wildest dreams, a capable man that loves and worships her, spoils her etc, she will no longer desire him. It sucks, but thats how it is.
I am careful to keep some emotional distance from my second wife. I answer about half of the time she calls me, and I almost never call her. I go away frequently on business. She constantly asks me to do things for her, and I often say 'no, I'm not your daddy, and you're not my little girl. You're an adult, and you can do it yourself'.
In marriage, women try to turn you into their replacement daddy, which means you do everthing for them, which kills the desire. They want a daddy, but they don't want to fuck their daddy.
Dont be their daddy. don't be their friend.
maltys 2y ago
I don't know, I've thought did my best according to my knowledge and circumstances. Most importantly I tried to be the best dad possible. They both love me and we have a great realtionship. I've stopped pushing them into anything since the break up and I just spend quality time with them and the bond is even stronger now. Once we are on the subject, she doesn't realize it yet but when they move into the 2 bedroom apartment, the kids might not mind it for a while but when they grow a little older they are gonna be sick with each other over there.
Yes, she still "loves Kevin" and is heartbroken over him but I don't see him leaving his family. Why would he? In fact he can have the best of both worlds once my wife is in the apartment. He can fuck her occasionally or reguraly when the kids are with me and then go back to his family. She is going to stay "in love" with him and can stay in this state for years. Or she can find somebody else. Ok, let me think. who that guy might be? I know!! It's a fucking prince on a white horse who just falls from heavens to rescue her. For gods sake, it's always going to be a someone with bigger or smaller baggage over his shoulders and his own set of problems. And she is going to love him for the rest of her life? I'm just flabbergasted still.
She had it all. Stable home, two gorgeous healthy kids, house, garden, extra income from rented apartment. She also had a man, who wasn't going to leave her. Yet she wasn't happy. She found happiness but it lasted for about three months. Good news is the happiness is out there somewhere. And maybe she'll find it who knows. She is very attractive so might have a better chance than most. I don't know and I don't care.
It really sounds like this is how it works. That you can't be always available to her. In my younger years she was jelaous all the time of me being somewhere I've always saw it as a bad thing but that was probably what kept her going. After the kids were born, I've stopped partying and stayed at home for the most part like good man should and here we are.
I also think, you are right in keeping emotional distance. I've opened my deepest corners of my soul to her and not only that it came back thrown in my face but they are having a laugh about it with her friends. The more I think about it the more I realize how much over her I am. She betrayed me on multiple levels it still hurts but she can just sod off already with "Kevin" or whoever.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
Above all, don't do things for them. Be very careful about that. Every single woman that I know tries to get their husbands to 'do things for them' that they can easily do for themselves. It's poison for the relationship, it puts you in the slave position, and her in the master position.
Example: I called around to a buddies house to pick him up for tennis, and he said - 'Hold on 5 mins, I need to put petrol in my wife's car'. He wanted me to wait while he got his wife's car, went to the station, filled it up, and drove it back, because 'it was low'.
I asked him if his wife somehow didn't know how to do that? And he said, 'no she just doesn't like doing it'.
This is a small and symbolic signal that his relationship is toast. He has become her servant. She has regressed into a child like state, and he is the father of her. She wants him to do a millions little subservient things for her, and will have zero sexual desire for him because he does them all.
The correct answer is - 'I'm not your servant'.
A lot of guys get to about 40 and they are bewildered why their wives don't want to fuck them / want to divorce them. They say things like
"She is so ungrateful, I gave her everything, I do everything for her"
It's BECAUSE you gave them everything, its' BECAUSE you do everything for her. That's why she looks down on you like you're some piece of shit.
That's exactly what happened with my first wife. It started with small things. Like 'can you run to the dry cleaners with my stuff?' and it spirals out from there. Pretty soon, you're her servant. And its impossible for a woman to desire and admire a servant.
The hardest thing to understand with women is this:
"They don't want what they want. And they want what they don't want."
By that I mean, they say they want a good man that will take care of them (which is what you and I both did, and it gave them the dry). And they also say that they hate arrogant, disrespectful men that use women - but its actually only those men that they desire.
These kinds of women will never be happy.
Lone_Ranger 3 2y ago
edit - I wanted to add - have you ever seen a man standing around the womens toilet holding a handbag? Ever think that was odd?
Yeah, its fucking odd. Women do that to their husbands subconsciously. They say 'Hold this a minute, I need to go and use the bathroom'. Every single woman I have ever known tries that shit. I always say 'No. Take it with you. I'm not a coat check stand'
Have a think about it. Why do they do that? They could easily bring it with them? It's a subconscious way to humiliate their husbands in public, to show the husband who is boss.
Don't let that stuff creep into a relationship.
For this reason, I think its so important to have a hobby. A wife/LTR will always try to get you to do things for her. A million little asks. If you start agreeing, it will only get worse.
If my wife says 'Oh we're going to xyz furniture shop on saturday' I can say 'I'm playing tennis on Saturday'. And then she'll say 'But I wanted you to come as well' and I'll say
Why? Why do you need me? You have your own car, you have all you need. You can go yourself and have fun. I'll go to tennis, you go to the furniture shop and enjoy yourself.
She wants me there. She wants me to be her servant. It's very important to be able to say that you have your needs, wants, pleasures and interests ...and that you are going to do them.
Permacultist 2y ago
Focus on living an honorable life. Love your kids, strengthen yourself and fear God. May you find peace and joy brother.