Hey guys, I came here for help. I'm not sure if I'm posting to the right forum but here it goes. Also english is not my first language so bear with me here. And finally, this could be a long post. I'll try to keep it concise though.
I've met my wife 19 years ago. She was 19 at the time me 25. She is 38 and I am 44 now. I had two long term relationships before her and I was her first. She was easily 10 back then and probably still is today for her age.
Basically immediately we have moved together from Eastern Europe to UK where we slowly started to build life together. Dependant on each other in foreing country and madly in love with each other we finished our educations there. I've started a carreer, and soon bought a house for us. Our son was born two years later, then daughter three years after that. Life couldn't be more perfect, right?
5 years ago I was diagnosed with cancer and we have decided to move back home. So I can get treatment in our country and she would get support from her parents if things didn't go well. We sold the house and 4 of us moved into 2 bedroom apartment. Luckily I have fought off the disease but it took me for a spin mentally. Financially I have taken a big hit but still managed to buy another house here. Before we moved in there we had a big fight over our son's behaviour and our general approach to upbringing that differed greatly at that time. She told me it is over and I have almost moved into the house alone.
We did make up in about a week and moved in together. That was two years ago. At that time she has already started working after spending quite a few years at home with children.
Our relationship was never the same after the first break up. Our sex life went from little (after children were born I was kind of left out and had to plead for it almost all the time) to very little and to zero shortly after. I resigned, stopped pleading for intimacy and she never came for it herself. We drifted apart. Small problems started cumulating and were never resolved. However we still managed to work together as parents and everything ran quite smooth on that front. After another fight she said she is done. I knew it was coming I knew there must be some catharsis but I always thought we would sort things out again and maybe start differently. After some three weeks it was clear she was serious this time. And I couldn't do anything no more to change her mind.
We stayed living together because of kids. We both love them so much. I became addicted to my son's sports achievements after the disease and when my daughter grew a little older she started adoring me how only daughter can adore her father. She is the sweetest thing under the sun. They are 10 and 7 at this point. I would give up anything and everything for them two. When my wife told me she is moving out, I convinced her to stay for the sake of kids. And that we can have our separate lifes outside of the house until one of us will get really serious in our next relationship and then we reevaluate.
At first it looked like a great idea to me. I can finally start to live again and the kids will still be living with me. After short time it dawned on me that this is crazy situation and what I really want is our marriage being fixed and our family back together. Afterall she is living with me, how can she say no, when I put some serious effort into this after some time. But she doesn't have any of it. She is apparently done with me. This is now three months ago.
I have done quite a bit of reading about women since then and realized she and I are textbook examples of what is going on in other modern marriages. I was so oblivious to the clues and the more I read the more I realise she is acting exactly by the book of how women are generally acting nowadays. She has a long list of reasons why I am no longer a suitable partner now despite me having made a home for us twice. None of that matters anymore. There is no excuse for me, I went through cancer for god's sake, took a serious financial hit in my career and wasn't in the best shape mentally because all of that. Through thick and thin, yea sure. Water under the bridge. All that matters she doesn't feel happy and appreciated now.
I already know what your advice will be. Dude she is done, move on, learn and find a new one and do things differently this time. But I would like to explore all the posibilities to save this family. I need sophisticated approach to this matter. I've started to do the basics, working out, getting in shape, I've made plans for increasing income, working on the house that I have also neglected etc. I just don't know how to go about her. She seems like a completely different person now, I can't get to her. She is just shutting me off. Sorry for the long post. Please help, if this is salvageable. Thank you.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Breaks my heart to hear this story. It is very similar to my own.
It does sound like the relationship is damaged. I don't know what the divorce laws are like where you live, but I would try to find out. Find out what will happen if / when you get divorced.
One thing I would suggest is that you try to give her credible disincentives to not get divorced. For example, I hear of a lot of guys that say,
"Well, if we are going to get divorced, lets try and keep it civil, for the sake of the kids. I don't want any court cases, I want a nice, clean break and we can still be friends. We need to continue with a friendly, civil relationship so that we can both co-parent responsibily"
This is the worst possible position you can take. It's 100% encouraging her to divorce. You're just making it easy on her, smoothing the way. What you should be saying is this;
"Sure - go ahead and file divorce. But be aware, I will fight you to the end of time for custody. I will spend every waking hour, every cent I have to get full custody of the kids. You have no idea who you are dealing with - it will be like you trying to fight a lion. You will lose. I'm prepared to do everything and anything to get full custody, and have you see them once a month in a contact centre, under supervision of a welfare officer. I will drag you down, you will lose everything - you'll be without a home, no job, no husband, no income, no pension and no kids. Nobody will want you. I'll keep going in the family law courts until all the money is gone, then I will borrow more. I can borrow more than you, against future income."
Or along those lines. You need to let her know that it will be WW3 if she pulls the pin.
She is 38 - she is making a huge mistake. Please be aware that she is probably monkey branching - she probably already has her plan B worked out - there is no doubt some other guy that she is in a cladastine relationship with. But when she pulls the pin, this dude will NOT front up. He will piss off. I've seen it before. She is naive. She thinks that because she can get laid at 38, she can get an LTR. She cannot.
maltys 1y ago
I do not think about divorce at the moment, I really do want to bring her to her senses somehow, I know that it looks bleak but I have to try.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
I wouldn't follow (LoneRangers) advice here.
Again, not sure where you live which makes a huge difference in laws and expectations of outcome.
In the US, the guy is basically not going to get primary custody. Unless it's ok with her or she's a drug addict.
Then, if you say you are going to fight, she'll get a lawyer and you will end up paying for her lawyer and your lawyer. The lawyers win, you both lose.
Learn the local laws, get advice from a lawyer.
I read up on it and followed a guys approach online that really worked well for my divorce.
I told her I loved her, I kept my cool even when she was a total bitch.
I found an all "female" law firm and filed for divorce.
I created a spreadsheet of all assets and split it 50/50, very detailed.
I calmly sat down with her and explained that as soon as she involves a lawyer on her side, look at the amount of money in your settlement and take off about 25% (in our situation) for the legal fees. She was like WTF? I encouraged her to research it and that 50/50 in our situation was the expectation to start with so what are you really fighting for with your own lawyer?
Having the all female divorce firm really helped also, I was the only guy in the room. I advised them to answer all her questions directly.
She bitched and threatened but on advice from her own family she didn't involve a lawyer. So, my bringing her to reason was to show her the numbers and that how much she'd loose by fighting.
Our kids were old enough so they had choice to live with whoever, they chose me but we split 50/50. About a year after the divorce she pissed the kids off by being an all around bitch, along with telling lies about me (cheating on her,etc). The kids were old enough and smart enough to see that as a lie. So, they decided to move in with me full time.
I do agree with (lone ranger) on some of his comments.
I'd bet money on her already having fun with guys. You mentioned she's like a 10 , for her age. Yup, she can get young hot guys or whoever to F her good for sure. Or if she wants a money daddy , no problem.
She'll probably start spending lots of money, taking vacation trips "alone",etc. how would you handle that?
She think she can do better is the root issue here and she's looking. Prepare yourself and make a plan
Durek_The_Bald 1y ago
@Lone_Ranger
I'm with @Intrepid_Place53900 on this one.
OP needs to mentally walk away from her, so that he can genuinely do it in the practical sense too. He needs to stay on task with what's important, which is to get a smooth deal for him and his kids - not getting back together with his soon-to-be ex-wife.
Fighting words is the opposite of walking away, and it's not going to do anything towards getting her back, nor towards getting a good deal.
He needs to go: "Ok. Your feelings are your feelings, and I respect that. But we need to work X, Y, and Z out for the good of our kids, and so that we can remain on friendly terms."
100% accepting that the marriage is over, 100% taking onboard that they're going to have an "alternative family life" from now on, and 100% focusing on what that life is going to look like, that's what "walking away" looks like, and the mentality behind it.
It might even shake her up a bit, but that's not why he should do it. Either way, men who are willing to walk away, and to do so with spirit and excitement for whatever opportunities the future might hold, is something that commands respect from women.
No talk about feelings, no blame games, no grudges, no woe-is-me, only look forward. This is the way to go imo.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
I'm begining to revise my opinion on this.
Maybe I was too emotional when I wrote the first of my response posts (with the best of intentions). But hey, that's what being burned does to you!
In retrospect, I think a position somewhere between what I said and what Durek_The_Bald is probably the best way to go.
The thing is, I don't know how far gone this all is - I don't know if it can / cannot be saved. We don't have enough info. If she is still on the fence about leaving, then I think go really hard in terms of telling her that you will go to war if its divorce.
If the ship has already sailed, then its pointless. I would say try to show her rational incentives for keeping the lawyers out of it. I did try and do that, but it still descended into an 8 year long legal battle, with plenty of court cases. Legal advice was about £290 an hour at that point (years ago) and court appearances were £5k a day. Plus they always seemed to want plenty of assistants with them, to maybe carry their pen or something. Ffs. It was expensive.
@Intrepid_Place53900
wswZtyqNGQ 1y ago
Women destroy each other for fun.
The silver lining to this is that your wife is easily swayed by the opinion of other women. That makes dread game and flirting game very effective. If your wife sees you get hit on by other women she will immediately change her emotions.
maltys 1y ago
My wife used to be very jelaous, she hated when I was in the middle of attention. But now she says go ahead, have fun I'm happy for you.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Misery loves company. The thing that makes women more unhappy than anything else is this nagging feeling that some other woman, somewhere, is happy. It eats away at them.
maltys 1y ago
Yes, I think. they are in her head. I don't think my wife was necessarily happy, she probably said she wasn't and they encouraged her to start living finally, experience and explore. Deep down them two want what my wife has, two healthy kids, house, garden and a man who will stick it out for them. I at least that's what I believe. I have tragically lost my dad when I was 14, I have a slightly different perspective of what unhappiness looks like.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
you're right. Women's downfall is envy. They see other women with what they want, decide that's not fair, and then plot to destroy their own best friends.
It has been said many times that women never really have friends. The older I get, the more that I see that this is true. If a woman is lucky, she can have the love of her father, the love of a good man, and the love of her children. That is a lot of love. But she will never have the love of her 'friends'. Bitches will stick the knife in each others back for the smallest, the very tiniest of personal gain.
My own wife has confided to me that she cannot stand working with other women, and that she will never ever work for a woman boss ever again. She wants an office where the women and gays are in the minority.
maltys 1y ago
I agree, I do however believe this is going on the subconcious level at least in my case. They are just being women. Simply dragging her down to their level saying look how good we have it here. They are both ugly as shit both fatter than me. They probably only have promiscuous sex with drunked bar goers and give it off as a great fulfilled life full off experiences. Well ok, if that's what she wants, then it is a good bye.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
As others have written, you cannot negotiate your way back into her loving you.
What she is doing now is the mother of all shit tests - you need to get real assertive with the situation right now. This minute.
I second what Typo-MAGAshit wrote. Do all of that. It sounds stupid, but go to the gym. It's good for your head space, will make you feel stronger. The only thing I (slightly) disagree with him on is this - Don't wait until you're better to go the gym, go to the gym to get better. If you leg is broken, train your arms. If your arms are broken, train your legs. You will get lots of side benefits - more testosterone, endorphins, better blood circulation, better mood etc. Lift weights every day until the day you die.
I'll use bullet points to keep my thoughts in order;
Now is the time to get tough. It doesn't matter whether she gets back with you or not - you need to become more active, more assertive, more confident, more 'manly' overall. Regardless of whether she leaves or not. That's very important.
Do not make the mistake of 'placating' her. Another user has written that she has lost attraction for you because she domesticated you. This is very true. Everything you do to try and accommodate or placate her will further increase her hatred of you. Every concession you make will worsen you deal, whether you stay together OR split. I learnt this lesson the hard way.
Reduce time spent with her on purpose. Spend more time with the kids. If you can, establish a routine which would look like you are the primary carer - bring them to and from the school. Phone the school and make sure your email and phone are the primary contacts. Take your kids to play dates and create witnesses that you are the primary carer.
Do not argue with your wife anymore. Don't do it.
Be prepared - you have to go to war to create peace. If you look weak, she will go to war. If you look tough and are prepared - she may be afraid to go to war. Weak countries get invaded. This is why I recommend that you give her 'the talk' that I outlined in my above statement. Women are highly incentivised to leave when they think their men are going to lie down and roll over - they think that they can get everything and it will be easy. Make sure that she BELIEVES that you will fight her to the death for custody of the kids.
If I could have my time again, I would file for divorce, rather than waiting. Because my wife filed for divorce, she had major advantages in the shit storn that followed. I would give up my work, wait 3 months, then file for divorce and claim for full custody, and state what child maintance I was expecting. I would 'go nuclear' straight away so that she can see what she is up against.
I stupidly agreed to go to counselling and then all kinds of therapy. This is all time wasting nonsense. Don't bother. She ended up using it against me in court, AND used it to stall for time.
It's going to get ugly. You never really know your wife until the day you go up against them in the divorce courts. My ex-wife accused me of being a drug addict and a child molester (which hurt her case quite a lot). They say 'all's fair in love and war' and divorce is like that.
The harder you fight, the better your deal will be. I am certainly NOT saying get back with her, BUT the harder you fight, the more chance you have of getting back with her. This is the single hardest thing to understand about women - giving them what they say they want will mean that they shit all over you and destroy your life.
The harder you fight your corner, the stronger you are against her, the better off you will be and the more she will want you back.
[deleted]
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
There is a saying in therapy "It's never about what its about". What they mean by this? All couples come in to therapy saying that they are having issues with XYZ. It's never XYZ. It's something else. Couples argue at cross angles, rarely saying the truth, rarely stating their positions honestly.
Let me tell you this = its not about how you interact with your son. That much I'm sure of, and I don't even know you or your situation.
It's clearly about something else that she will not admit to. My first guess is that she has met someone else, is having an affair. Or had an affair.
Do you have anything on that angle? What would be your position if she has had / is having, an affair? Would you still want to be with her, for the sake of the kids?
maltys 1y ago
I don't know and I can't be sure. She acts strange around this topic, however she denies she had sex with anyone and that she is looking for anyone. However, I am convinced she has/had somebody in her mind instead of me. Maybe was on a date had and had a good time, was charmed by somebody etc. I don't think she slept with anybody yet. And that is a line, I am not willing to cross.
In any case I'm done if she was unfaithfull and I'm done when she starts a new relationship.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
You say she acts strange around this topic.
I would spend some time with yourself on this topic - explore your feelings BEFORE you find out. Would you be willing to take her back, make a fresh start? Be honest with yourself. Nobody can answer this question for you.
Also, be wary of anyone (on this site or IRL) saying to you 'She's for sure fucking someone else' - you should be the judge of that. If I were you, I would do a little digging around, maybe in her phone / emails. It's not very hard to spot.
The thing that sold it to me was that I tried to use her phone once, while we were in a hotel, to call a restaurant. She freaked out. So I stood up with her phone and walked out. She followed me, leaving our two young children in danger. I said 'You going to leave our kids, right there? they could get run over by a car" she kept following me, screaming at me to give me her phone. I kept walking until we were very far away from the kids, they were left there on their own, such was her obsession with me not seeing her messages. She was screaming and trying to call the police. I kept walking, I wanted to see how far she would go, how far behind she would leave our young kids in danger.
I kept walking until I hit the interstate - can could walk no further. There she was physically attacking me, calling for the police. Trying to grab her phone. No thought for our kids.
That's when I knew. Eventually I got into the car and locked the doors while she pounded on the windows, screaming hysterically. I didn't find any messages. She had forgotten that she had deleted them.
There is no message that could have been more clear that the message that she was giving me.
maltys 1y ago
I am willing to believe her for the time being. She sends me pictures of where's she at when it might be suspicious. I don't know why she is doing that, I have never asked her to do that. Otherwise she keeps her phone locked since we broke up. She showed me the WhatsApp page with the list of convos once. Nothing suspiscious there. I can snatch her phone out of her hands one day and run away. There would be plenty of stuff to read between her and the witches. She won't catch me i run 3 miles daily now :)
And I know I'm not taking her back if she was unfaithfull. This is another thing she has going for herself. I can't explain that but it has a huge appeal to me knowing that I'm the only one. If this is not the case then she can just sod off already.
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
not going to lie - it does sound suspcious that she is sending you pics of where she is at when it might be suspicious.....and you have not asked her for that.
It's so easy to take pics of somewhere and then save them for later, and send them to you when she is somewhere else totally different.
maltys 1y ago
Everything matches up though, timing, clothes etc. And she is not manipulative like this. She wouldn't simply send me anything if she was somewhere else. She's basically telling me look I am where I've said I would be, I'm not doing anything wrong. Why she is doing that?
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
Why indeed. I can't answer that. I don't even want to imply either this way or that way. You have to find out for yourself.
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 1y ago
I may expand on this later.
This is a covert contract. Strongly recommend you read "No More Mr. NiceGuy" by Dr. Robert Glover.
You cannot make someone else do anything. You can only incentivize.
Are you recovered enough to hit the gym and lift weights yet? If so, start.
Past those two starting points, I recommend you check out the sidebar at old.reddit.com/r/MarriedRedPill. There's a lot of good material there, though I don't like how they run their sub day-to-day.
I also recommend you check out Rian Stone's YouTube channel. He's senior endorsed at the original TRP subreddit and a moderator at the MRP subreddit.
This will be a marathon, and not a sprint. Do not expect instantaneous results (read up on the thousand foot tow rope at MRP).
And even if she decides she's done, you'll be more ready for the next woman.
Good luck.
coolsocks00 1 1y ago
This.
The MRP sidebar and related material is what's gonna help you implement a plan to self improve, possibly recreate attraction or at least set you up for the future.
You need to understand Dread Game, minus the covert contracts often implied in that material. Building attraction is inherently a risky process in a relationship. You'll have to adopt more alpha tendencies in a way that's not too tumultuous for the family dynamic to handle.
First thing for you to implement is STFU. Do not attempt to bargain, rationalize or explain relationship stuff with your woman.
maltys 1y ago
Please do expand on this. I will check all the info u provided. As for the gym, I have lost 30 pounds and will lose another 30 by the end od the year. Even though I have put on some weight and lost all my hair I am not a bad looking guy. I have certain amount of confidence in myself and used to be quite funny. I will bounce back if need ne. But I really do want to save this family.
JamesSkepp Moderator 1y ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/ - this is your best source of "RP while married" but be aware that they (apparently) have some (apparently slight) BP tendencies also. There's a sidebar there too so start by reading that.
I haven't read that forum for years now so can't vouch for the current quality with the exception of Rian Stone:
https://www.reddit.com/user/RStonePT/submitted/
Lightswitch effect. When woman stops loving you (which in reality means she's not attracted anymore) she does 180 on you being associated with anything good, now you are associated with everything bad.
Secondly, talking to her wont do anything at all, so don't bother. The basic tenet of RP is that "attraction isn't a choice" meaning you cannot talk her into being attracted, you cannot negotiate it. Asking for sex doesn't work either. She doesn't want to have sex with you, she is repulsed by the thought.
Apart from working out, all this is just BP/beta servility to a woman. This is like an advanced version of choreplay ("wash the dishes and I'll give you an handjob"). Don't take this the wrong way tho: you should be working on your finances etc but this in itself won't make her attracted again.
Lightswitch again. Also another thing: you displayed weakness (the cancer) and her female instinct told her she's done with you. This is the real female nature, the cancer wasn't your fault but that doesn't matter for woman's programming.
I also suspect you went from alpha to beta over the years, by your actions and b/c she domesticated you. This is the most common path marriages follow.
I'm against any form of marriage so I'm gonna say find a new one.
Your kids are your family now. Assume she is likely acting against your interests and planning her divorce with a lawyer already.
Your effort doesn't matter. It's BP thinking that effort matters, that you can fix a marriage by "working on it". She's not attracted to you as a man so no amount of fixing, effort, communicating, opening up, therapies, counseling will change that. What you need to do is to become an attractive guy again. an hope she sees you in a new light.
She is done with you.
Finally, divorce is on the table, contact a divorce lawyer without telling her and ask him what to do to not let her divorce rape you. Now I know what you want to say, that you're going to get your shit together and win her back - but the divorce rape (both houses, half of your savings, your car AND child support) is the real thing you should worry about, not losing a woman.
I think you should assume she is working against you already, so ask MRP not only for advice how to salvage it but how to not let her destroy your life by taking your money, kids and ruining your reputation b/c #believeallawomen.
Seagram7 1y ago
OP, if you are still here I have to emphasize the post above. He is literally giving you bullet point advice on what is happening. Some points I really want to reemphasize:
You cant negotiate attraction! Another way to say it and this really stuck with me is "you cant 'nice guy' you way down her pants. Being nice just will not work.
Hope for the best BUT PREPARE FOR THE WORSE! As in you need to start talking to a lawyer and on his advice you protecting your finances, gathering evidence, documenting her time at home and with the kids etc. It would be great if you can save your marriage BUT you need to act as if you know a divorce will happen.
This part is going to hurt: Gather evidence as in she is defiantly having an affair. All the signs are there.
Stressful life changing event Emotional distancing. To the point of blaming you and openly saying this isnt working. Dead Bedroom. She doesnt want to be unfaithful to her lover. return to the workforce or anything that removes her from the house after being a housewife. And this a huge red Flag: Evil, slut friends. Out of every sign this is the worse and is why I am convinced she is fucking someone else. They are telling her to go party, sample new cock and most of all, she can and deserves better. They are encouraging her to blow up her marriage and nothing you say has more power than her peers. You think I could be wrong? than prove it. Most women will not blow up their marriages unless there is a safety net like another man waiting. Get a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) and put one in her car. That's where they usually have their intimate conversations over the phone. VAR's are cheap and what's the harm if you are wrong? She had given you plenty to worry about.
I really mean this when I say good luck.
maltys 1y ago
It is mad that there is a term for it. The more I read about it the more I understand how her natural behaviour fits all the boxes. It is insane. I was so clueless about any of this.
I keep coming back to this sentence. It tears me up every time. Thank you man.
[deleted] 1y ago
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maltys 1y ago
Thank you guys for responding. It means a lot to me. You have some spot on observations and some are not as accurate as the whole picture is hard to describe in few paragraphs. I do think all the problems stems from lack of intimacy from her end. After I gave up pursuing her I became too pasive to try and work on myself as well as work hard in other areas. You are wrong in the sense that she is lazy and doesnt like to raise children. She does almost all the work around the kids. She cooks, does the laundry, prepare snacks etc. She definitely blames me for not helping enough end resents me now and I have to take some blame here. As I have said I have lost my focus alongside of my hair and grew a bit of a beer belly. However I did work around the house a bit, it's not that I didn't do anything. The most joy I had was to take the kids out and bike ride with them , played tennis. My son plays hockey, so I became focused mainly on that. Most importantly I have paid for our houses, and took care of us finacially since the beggining until she started working again three years ago. Also she is very attractive still and she can have any guy she points at. At least for the fun bits. I am sure she hasnt done that for the first 18 years, I cant be sure about the last year though.
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
some good comments already posted
my view as on old guy who's gone through very similar.
First, there's kids involved. Not sure where you live and the divorce laws, expectations. But, that really changes an automatic "move on, she's toast", to a much more difficult situation.
Here's what is normal in the US in regards to kids and divorce. you get (shared) custody, that's really bull shit, why?
Reality is, the woman has custody, the guy gets every "other" weekend and maybe a night during the week if it works out with the kids schedules,etc.
That means you get like 3 out of 14 days with the kids, yup. This is very normal and the whole system calls it fair.
Now many states have age of decision, where if the kid is 12 or older (or other age), they can decide which parent they want for (primary) custody. See , they even admit to themselves that their "shared" system is not really shared. Where now it's a "primary and secondary".
So, you have a few choices.
A) suck it up and try to make the best of it, until the kids reach "whatever age is it where you live that they can decide who to live with".
B) File for divorce now and start living the life you want
C) continue to try to "get back together".
Now, finances, if you make the majority of money , this is going to be hard, she'll likely get 1/2 of your money and get palimony for kids until they reach (whatever age it is in your location). In some US states, it's 25 or (post college) and you have to pay for college "required". totally F'd up in those states.
So, get ready for that.
Ask yourself, can you live with her for "x" amount of years, and you both behave yourself around the kids and make it a good environment for them? I'm gonna say the vast majority of couples couldn't pull that off, can you two?
That kind of makes the decision for you if you can't and remember it's both of you, not just you. If you think you can, again, it's until you can't "fake" it in front of the kids anymore because it's not worth it at that point. If you "stay" it's for the kids, if it's not benefiting the kids then you split.
Keep lifting, good diet, get yourself in financial shape, be an example for your kids.
The by-product of that is, when you do split, there's plenty of women to have fun with, if that's what you want.. It's always good to have choices.
Durek_The_Bald 1y ago
Your wife has officially checked out of the marriage (a long time ago, might I add), and you have no control over that. So focus in stead on that which you can have some control over; the divorce proceedings, and how they're going to pan out.
Self improvement, yaddi yaddi ya. Yes, you should self improve (always), but that's not for your wife. That's for yourself, and for being attractive to all the future women in your life.
Don't be melodramatic about "losing your family" and silly stuff like that. Your kids are your family, and always will be. A checked-out wife is just dead weight in that regard. You can be much more content sharing custody.
It's important you see the opportunities for a good life here. So to help you along with that, let me tell you about a close friend of mine who recently got divorced:
Basically, it was 3-4-5 months of difficult conversations, and emotional rollercoasters. But now, on the other side? Dude is living the fucking life, let me tell you.
Both him and his wife were working full-time, which means no alimony, no child support, and 50/50 split custody. Your wife is working too, from what I understand, so this is the perfect time for you to get a divorce (so fucking grab the opportunity by the horns, and take control over it).
His wife bought him out of his 50% of the house, and he got an apartment nearby. Now he has his kids staying with him every other week. And the other weeks? He's spending those with his hotter, younger, more fun girlfriend, and pursuing creative projects he had to fight for whilst married to his ex. And because they live so close to eachother still, the kids can have the same stuff, the same friends, come and go as they please, no matter "whose week" it is.
I haven't seen my good mate this happy in 15 years or more. It's a fucking awesome life, still a family life of sorts, but with the added freedom of bachelor life every other week.
And the kids are handling it just fine. But for that to happen, it is important that their parents live close, still talk eachother up as parents, and don't weaponize the kids against eachother....
...which is another reason for you to just let it go, don't lose any further respect, and to take control over how divorced life is going to look for both you and your kids.
Good luck. If you play your cards right, there's an awesome life awaiting you (and don't you forget it).
Lone_Ranger 2 1y ago
I'm glad to see some of the older guys jump in on this thread and help out. That's brotherhood.
nicknack 1y ago
All that matters is that you make her pussy tingle. providing homes, money, support none of that matters at all. Guys get it out of your head that how much you give means anything. It means nothing to women, they don't appreciate anything.
The best thing you can do is get yourself into shape ASAP, get a six pack, biceps. Start looksmaxxing. Start treating her sexually, slap her ass every time you can. I know its hard but your best bet to save the marriage is to be the hot guy who sexualizes her. Put being a good father and provider completely to the side for now. Saving your marriage at this point is the best thing you can do for your kids anyway.
Women crave a hot guy who treats them like a lil slut. Start looksmaxxing hard and telling her how sexy she is, squeeze her ass, get her drunk. That's what shes craving. It might take you 6 months to get a 6 pack but its worth it. And if all else fails at least you enter the post divorce period with abs and looking your best.
maltys 1y ago
Thank you guys for all the responses. I am actually blown away by the amount of enthusiasm you all trying to help. How do I post a quote so I can address individual points? I will try to express my situation here better.
1) Divorce, lawyers, custody. I live in Czech Republic, so fortunately I won't probalbly experience any of the horror stories I have come across whilst researching this topic that are happening in US. It is effing insane over there. I mean wtf? I do feel for you guys.
When it comes to it I believe we would have a civil adult conversation about it and hash out all the details ourselves. Custody will be 100% shared as it cannot be done technically any other way at the moment. We both have specific job in education and we both work afternoons some of the days and we are taking turns taking care for the kids now already. When it comes to money I can lose half of the house that I have paid for, I am at her mercy here. I might have to sell the house to pay her. I don't think I can do anything here if she decides to take it. She would rob the kids of the garden, pool, trampoline etc. by doing so. Btw I do not have two houses, I have bought one in the Uk sold it and bought second one in Czech republic. At the moment I would like to focus on the ways of my actions as described above in nicknack post to try to change something. Divorce is the last thing I am focusing on right now but I do appretiate all your concerns.
2) As Durek_The_Bald said she's checked out of the relationship long time ago. She said that herself she was only waiting for good opportunity to tell me. Btw it didnt mean that she waited for a good moment to have me sit down and tell me. It meant she ramped up her bitchiness about smallest stuff, waited for me to finally break my cool and then tell me. lol
3) As I said earlier we take turns while taking care for the kids already. Her idea was to move out back to the appartment and have them live with me for two days, two days with her and one day grandparents are taking care of the kids. Weekends as it goes. Our son has hockey matches most weekends and that my thing anyway. We would live 30min drive appart.
When she said that, I said listen this would be inceredibly confusing and hard for the kids as they would have to travel from place to place three times a week. On top of that they would have to deal with the fact that we are not together. This was basically main thing why we stayed living together. Btw the kids have no idea of whats going on at the moment. Our son maybe senses that something is not right but he doesnt know the severity of it. Our daughter is the happiest child on the planet, she draws pictures of us four holding hands. It rips my heart right out when I see something like that.
4) I have done all the mistakes. I tried to rationalize, explain, bargain, got angry, gave ultimatums. All that stuff before I have started to reaserch this. I have definitely became domesticated over the years, became complacent and lost focus. I didn't think it was this bad, it all came as a shock to me. After some time I have expressed to her that I am not giving up on us and I will try to save this no matter what. At least I would have clear conscience when I finally move on too.
5) I know that the situation it is bad and I should move on. She says she is not involved with anybody and this is all about me being me and she's had enough. I have said that if she was with anyone I am done too and when she finally will be with someone I am done trying saving anything. She acts incredibly akward around this topic that makes me think, she was at least on a date, maybe kissing someone definitely thinking about someone. But I don't think she's slept with anyone yet. For example she is doing sleepover with her new friends. I become incredibely itchy about it start saying things like yea sure and being overall down about it and then she sends me a photo of her being at home with that witch. To let me know, see, I am not cheating on you. Those are some of the things that confuse me and I tend to see silver lining in them.
6) Silver linings I see. She hasn't moved out. She says it is only because of kids but apparently I am not that terrible to live with afterall. If it was really really bad she would have moved out no matter what. She still cooks for me, primarily for the kids but she offers some leftovers to me occassionaly. She still does the laundry including my dirty undies. She still laughs at some of my jokes. Not all of them but sometimes I make her laugh. She is doing a bit of gardening again, it was her pride. Last few months she neglected it but started again and even said something about next season. I spend a lot more time with my kids now, I make them laugh and she sees that and laughs at the silliness with us sometimes. We occasionally do stuff together. She has assured me, she is not moving out for the forseeable future. Basically we live together and it is not as bad as it might seem. I think she doesn't see the forest for the trees, I think she just needs to realize I am not that bad. Do I think she can do better? Sure, she won't find a better person for the kids though. This is why i still think it still might work.
7) Bad stuff. She is very bitchy about small petty things and she nags me often. She even makes stuff up about me in her head, implies what I said and I didn't etc. She is constantly on her phone with the witches. I don't have acces to the phone but one days she showed me the main page of Whatsapp with the list of the conversations and there was no guy. She complains about me spending more time with kids now saying I'm buying them so they wouldn't want to leave. I was like wtf?? When the witch was at our place she was on about partying. And my wife shouted 'yay, freedooom!' She said to me she didn't experince stuff as I was hers only one. She started watching romantic movies. She is going to France with the witches in about 3 weeks. She is very adamant about us being done.
8) I know I should move on. I can move on today tomorrow, next week or the week after. I gave myself a timeframe till the new year. I should be 60 pounds lighter by then and I want to see how Christmas will pan out.
ObliviousDuck 1y ago
Forget about the red pill sidebar, what you need is the r/marriedredpill sidebar. It is much more adapted to people in LTR and marriage. (Edit: the community there is mostly dead and purplepill, but the sidebar is a gold mine)
There are three things you should do immediately:
1) Go out right now and find the closest gym with good barbells, preferably 24h and subscribe there. Not tomorrow or next week. Today. You are going to lift some mother fucking iron. Start with a linear strength powerlifting program for at least 3 months. Phraks Greyskull LP is a good simple program for beginners, GZSLP if you like things a bit more complicated.
2) Start reading the MRP sidebar. It's going to take a few months minimum as there are a lot of books in there and you will need to read some a couple of time before you fully understand them. The first one you can order right now is No More Mr Nice Guy.
3) STFU. Do no engage in verbal diarhea with your wife. When she is pleasant be pleasant. When she's nagging, complaining, shit testing,.. DO NOT ENGAGE. There is nothing you can say in your current state that will make anything better. You need to learn how to get out of her frame before you can learn to engage her shit again. This will takes months if not years. This doesn't mean you should stop talking to her, but STFU about your feelings, STFU about her, STFU when she tries to rile you up. It's going to make her mad, she is going to follow you around the house with her bullshit and won't shut her meat flaps, it means it's time to go take a walk, or even better, go to the gym and lift some iron.
maltys 1y ago
Thanks man, I have stopped with rationalizing, explaining etc. But in a sesne I'm glad that I expressed myself that the family is of the highest value for me and I am not ready to throw it away just yet.
I try to ignore her bitchingness most of the time. But when she nags me directly I've started to stand up against her by saying I don't need the drama anymore cut it off and treat me respectfully. It shut her up for about two days and after that she was much nicer to me.
I know I need to start acting more alpha again, but not sure how. We have interactions everyday. Should I start conversations, should I wait for her to bring something up? Should I try to point out the stuff that are working well in our household? So far I am praising her for the work in the garden, she loves the garden, she might not miss me in the apartment but she would miss the garden for sure. lol
We are in my frame in some sense, I've said that I intent to keep the house by any means necessary. Basically telling her, if you are not with me, you are living in my house now. I've paid for it. She can take me for half of it but I don't remind her of that. Her parents gave us the 2 bedroom apartment we used to live before. It is now rented out and that's where she would go if she moves away. They said it is ours but they forgot to include my name on the deed. I didn't take it well at the time.
ObliviousDuck 1y ago
You do raise some interesting questions about STFU so I'll say this: It is a temporary affair. STFU is not always the optimal strategy but it is infinitely better then anything you can come up in your current state. Until you are in a better position to deal with the bullshit such as fogging and gaming your wife, STFU is the best you can do.
You expressed that, but what are you going to do about it? She already knows you'll do everything in your power to keep the family. This is her ultimate trump card: not the sex, the family unity. All you have done is overtly confirm what she already knew.
This brings another thing: you have to accept you might lose everything. Make your plan as if you will lose your wife, you will lose the house, you will lose the kids. "It's not until you're ready to lose everything that you're free to do anything". Until you are willing to accept that, you are in her frame. I'm not saying you shouldt ditch everything and dissapear forever, I'm saying you sgould plan as if this is what might happen and accept it.
That's why MRP is called TRP on hard mode.
Don't establish boundaries if you are not willing to defend them and live with the consequences. Say you ask her to respect you, and then three days later she disrespects you again. Now what? She stepped on your boundary because you are in no position to enforce them, because you are not ready, today, to lose everything and she knows it. You can tell her a million times, it will just make you look weaker and weaker.
Absolutely! When she's pleasant, be pleasant. Praise her when she does something you like. But don't ever open your flap about your goals, your emotions and all that bullshit though. Do your stuff and STFU. If something needs to be fixed in the house, fix it and STFU.
You sure told her a lot of things, but what have you done? Actions, not words. Also, you are absolutely not in your frame. I want you to use the search function in your browser right now, go over your comments and search for "her" and "she" so they get highlighted. See the fucking Christmas tree? Now tell me again in whose frame you are.
Everything in your original post is about trying to save your marriage with your 10/10 oneitis. You don't save your marriage, you save yourself and if she wants to get on board at the end and you are happy with that, good.
maltys 1y ago
Wow, you coming on me hard man here and I need it.
I don't know. What should I do?
Realistically I won't lose everything, I won't lose the kids and I won't lose half of the house. But how does that change anything? If I were to lose everything. What should I do?
you are right. How do I go about changing it?
I mean I really live with her. We interact on daily basis. Let's go for examples from today. I drove her to take blood tests. After that we 've had a conversation about her sore arm, how she will need to have her breast checked next and that we are getting old and how the health will eventually go to shit at some point. I wanted to say that it would be nice to have someone next to you when that happens but I didn't. I knew it she would know what I'm implying. So is this the right way to go on about it? I am not sure how to interact with her.
Later on she was doing homework with our son. They weren't sure about something they called me for help. I've solved the problem, she didn't like the solution. I said I'm just trying to help take it or leave it and left the room. Later on that night we played guitars together. We played for half an hour. Very nice, very pleasant. I left her right after.
It's a very strange dynamic. We get along, we talk. Small talk, practical stuff, jokes. But she is done with me. I'm confused. Don't know how to interact with her. We are going to live like this for the forseeable future. Every day we'll wake up in the same house, every day I can to talk to her or not talk to her, distance her, make her laugh, slap her on the butt. Whatever would work. The way i see it, I'm freeroling here. She is done, ok, so be it. I can be done too, next week, next month or even after she finally comes back to me, I have all the options now.
I'm working out. I really want to get into best shape possible. I will need a new girl at the end of this right? I spend as much time as possible with my kids. I do work on the house. I was neglecting it because I knew this shit might happen and didn't see a point in trying hard. Now I know I want to keep the house by any means necessary. So started to enjoy the work on it. I'm doing it for myself and the kids now. I'm not sure what else I should do, that's why I'm here. I'm here to learn and grow. Ok I hear, you all saying, ditch her. This is done. Prepare for the custody battle. I hear this but ultimately, this is not what I want. Shouldn't alpha get what he wants? Lol i don't know I am very new to this all. I have never thought about relationship in this way.
ObliviousDuck 1y ago
I'm not here to tell you what to do step by step. That's for you to figure out by reading the MRP sidebar material and internalizing it. All I'm telling you is to STFU until you got that figured out.
That's good.
Not necesserally, but you will need to learn to game them again.
I'm not telling you to ditch her, I'm telling you to accept that as a possibility and even enjoy the thought of living without her. Until you are prepared to tell her to fuck off, you will not live in your frame. I repeat, I'm not telling you to ditch her, I'm telling you to be in the mental frame where you can live without her.
Unless she cheated on you or you got the ILYBINILWY, it's not over.
I get you. Unplugging is hard, especially when you are married with kids. This process takes time and effort. Give yourself a minimum of 18 months.
Lift, read the sidebar, STFU. Those are you priority for now until you improve your frame.
maltys 1y ago
This is what I am gonna do for the time being. I'm getting into the reading slowly and start to understand the concepts but I do not know anything yet and don't know what I am doing.
Thank you all for your inputs and replies, I will post update when or if anything changes. good luck all.
financehardo420 Should i (x1) 1y ago
not a helpful response but just extending my sincere condolences to you and your family man