Recently got into a relationship with a younger girl (18). Been seeing each other for a couple months. The other night however, she was like we need to talk.
K = her K: It feels like the only thing we do when we hang out just leads to sex/sexual things. I talked to my friends about it and they agreed.
Me: yeah, but you know how much sex/intimacy with a partner is important to me.
K: yeah but it feels like it's the only thing we do, like the other day I wanted to actually watch the movie, and then we fucked instead.
K: I think we need to chill off of it for a while.
Part of me instantly knew this would be a problem, as withdrawing the sex card is a bit of a trump card no? Is she just pulling a comfort test? Ngl the times I've hung out with her like 80% of the time has lead to something sexual, but I also think she's guilt tripping me for having a high sex drive. This is my first time getting into a relationship, so looking for feedback/insight.
Problematic_Browser 1 7mo ago
Her friends are probably single girls who can best be described as "mid". They're never going to give this woman any advice that will lead to her building a happy and healthy relationship with a man. Women keep women single on purpose.
You explained to her, logically, what was happening and she responded with her feelings. You're not discussing what is actually happening - you're discussing what she feels is happening which is a battle you cannot win, as her feelings are mutable and immune to facts.
THIS IS A SHIT TEST. If it were me, the route I'd go is malicious compliance. I'd say "You're right" and let it drop.
Then I'd deny her sex and every time I did I'd say "I think we need to chill off of it for a while." and not negotiate further. Additionally, I'd decline offers to see her with the excuse "I made other plans today". The hamster in her will start spinning, thinking you're fucking another woman (hell, maybe you should. If a woman is not enthusiastic about sex me, I find someone who is).
Vermillion-Rx Admin 7mo ago
This is bound to happen when you don't do anything of substance in a relationship. Yes sex is substantially but women in relationships want the whole emotional spectrum. Getting into a relationship is ostensibly about vetting a woman as a quality partner who earned your commitment and because she makes your life complimentary and better. If you purely only wanted to fuck her you wouldn't upgrade her to an LTR, that would be retarded when you could have a sex harem instead.
If you actually don't enjoy spending much other quality time with this chick i think in this case she actually has somewhat of a point. There are girls I've felt pretty good with, i actually will hold them the whole movie because that's something they add value to my life in or at least go do some other full activity with them somewhere out and the world and then drill them before or after or both, of that activity.
I actually do get the impression you view your LTR as a committed plate instead of an LTR. Also having to negotiate with her "that's a meaningful part of a relationship for me" was a bad move. "yeah sex feels good, it's fun" would have been better.
Some of you guys shouldn't be getting in LTRs unless a woman actually compliments your life such that you actually enjoy her company too because the things you do together actually enrich your life. Too many of you guys just see a plate with green flags and try to commit.
This isn't some speech on doing things that aren't sex because beta, I mean I'm being serious, some of you guys enter relationships for the wrong reasons and then end up giving the girl a unidimensional experience equivalent to that of a plate and when her the emotional rollercoaster she's expecting (sex, comfort, sex, warmth, sex, intimacy, sex, affection, sex, date, etc) gets subverted they hit you with shit like this.
A lot of you guys in LTRs wouldn't have this problem at all if you actually got into LTRs for their intended purpose
mattyanon Admin 7mo ago
Vermillion...love you man...... but gotta disagree with this.
"You just want sex" isn't literally true.
It never means "I really like you but I want to have less sex with you and do other things instead" like men think it means. It's a lie, it's misleading, it doesn't have the intended meaning.
I know this because I've heard it from women I'm committed to but never from FWB's.
It's a lie. It's misleading. It's a bluff and it means "give me your commitment and provisioning while I retain my sexual options to fuck someone else".
It means "I am losing attraction for you and now believe that I have your commitment secured, and will now demonstrate and utilise my power over you due to how committed you are and how I am less attracted to you."
It has to be dealt with by yanking the rug out from under her, NOT with more beta commitment.
nicknack 7mo ago
You're both right. If mostly all you're actually doing with a LTR/GF is having sex, then she's just a plate that you're spending too much time and energy on because you don't have other options or got tripped up into committing exclusivity to due to lack of experience. OP is probably young, and tbh most of us probably did this before.
A real LTR should only be someone you really enjoy spending nonsexual time with. You should be the one trying to finish the movie with her, while she's the one trying to fuck before the credits roll. Really the roles should be reversed from OP's situation.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 7mo ago
Exactly. Subverting her expectations and constantly having her on a trip of what you're going to do next, etc., is exciting to them IF they genuinely enjoy their connection with you AND are highly attracted to you as well.
As in your example, you could be cuddling to a movie, do the slightest of moves that gets her subtly wet, and then she's trying to fuck you instead. And then you say "no let's finish the movie" and her hamster is going crazy and she feels sexually rebuffed and then gives you unholy sex when she finally gets to make a move she's been dripping over the last 40 minutes.
Being in an LTR is not all about upping the beta. A woman who both feels emotionally strong about her guy and wants to fuck him will end up giving crazy and emotionally spiked sex IF the guy can keep her imagination ticking and chemistry-driven pair bond high
Predictable sex is a fast track to boredom in an LTR. Even if you fuck her well she will expect it and it becomes dull. Then she will power struggle for all of the other things she wants to do that occupy her imagination. It's a losing proposition in the LONG TERM. Hence LTR
Vermillion-Rx Admin 7mo ago
I'm not implying it's literal. I've also only gotten it from women who seemed like they wanted more than FWB with me.
I'm not talking about having more "beta" commitment or provisioning more for her as she loses tingles over it. I'm talking about a far more systemic problem a TON of guys on here have with LTRs.
They are entering LTRs for the completely wrong reasons, and then they get dynamics like THIS where their woman is giving them retarded power struggles instead of getting more emotionally hooked from a Chad pair-bond rollercoaster.
Too many guys on here are only vetting their LTRs for green flags, lack of red flags, low n count, young, and sexually available. While simultaneously not vetting those women for:
"Does she add a unique and complimentary value to my life?"
"Does my time with her feel genuinely rewarding?"
"Do we have shared mutual activities and interests?"
"Does her company add fulfilment and enhance my mood?"
"If we had a family together, would we all be able to go out and do rewarding shared experiences together?"
Too many guys on here are only vetting LTRs for the stereotyical TRP laundry list and nothing else of shared meaning. Then they end up with defacto committed FWBs instead of anything resembling a relationship. They completely disregard the "Long Term" part of a long term relationship
They end up just having no personal interest in any other kinds of activities with their girl. They're not actually satisfied going on a hike or outdoor adventure for 3 hours with their girl. They don't actually want to do anything activity based for the most part.
I'm not even talking about foregoing sex. I've taken girls I've even just casually been seeing places before (that didn't really cost money) did our activity, and then when we got home they defiled me. Because I gave them the range of emotions.
Women in LONG TERM relationships get tingle-limited with just sex. They don't have the rollercoaster of being intrigued, having a sense of exploration and growth, that kind of memory-laden rapport and captivation you get exploring your environment with someone and forming fond memories, getting absolutely defiled into a vulnerable sweaty puddle from the rapport break of being held for an hour to getting drilled senseless.
The problem isn't giving "beta" commitment. It's not having any genuine desire to do activities that unlock her full emotional range because that's not what the guy vet her for. They don't vet for the full experience. They vet for committed sex and the chick ends up getting bored at the 6month + mark if even because it's not a wide-ranging emotional rollercoaster and eventually only a new dick will give her the former excitement she used to have with sex.
These dudes on here are not unlocking women's full emotional range and then having to negotiate it instead. Gaurantee this chick will break up with OP in 2-3 months if he doubles down on giving her a unidimensional emotional experience
truthdontbehidden 7mo ago
vermillon is absolutely right.
If you compare mens emotions to 8 colors, womens emotion is like every possible shade of these 8 colors.
In LTR you need to spike every emotion in her, not only 1 or 2.
I saw those 2/3 month girl initiates break up too often. Its always the same onedimensional relationship of either guy is too nice or guy dismissed her all the time.
mattyanon Admin 7mo ago
Great points dude
Vermillion-Rx Admin 7mo ago
Thank you
EurasianChad 1 7mo ago
Don't allow her or her friends to get into your mentality. Women will always be more prone to herd mentality/caring about what the group thinks and being influenced by them.
Here's the truth: She wants sex too, & she's consensually giving it to you. She's pulling a ultimatum here, and as a fucking Chad, you don't deal with BS games like this.
I'd just thumbs up that last message, let her chase you after a few days and say sorry for listening to her friends. If she doesn't, it's good bye. You've already fucked and hopefully you have a rotation/other plates or at the least, other leads. Any other response would be a surrendering of power to her, which will ultimately have her lose respect for you anyway.
So be willing to lose this chick. For your own self respect bud
EurasianChad 1 7mo ago
Edit: I initially read her last message wrong. She meant chill off the sex, not chill off the relationship. I wouldn't give into that at ALL. In fact, if you had other options/other women trying to get at you, or induced some sort of competitive anxiety in her, she would NEVER have said that. You're probably giving her too much power in the relationship atm.
You dont have other options so ignoring her won't work. She doesn't fear losing you as much as you fear losing her. Looks like she has the power here.
If what I just in the first paragraph is true, I'd seriously consider leaving this bitch for your own sake bro. You might be deep in the wrong side of the power dynamic.
mattyanon Admin 7mo ago
+1 for this
coolsocks00 1 7mo ago
Solid. This is also another reason why you dont go exclusive straight off the bat even if she's great and you're open to an LTR.
She should be a plate first, deserve the FWB upgrade, then deserve the LTR. This way you get this kinda shit dealt with while you still hold all the cards. You'll have communicated your boundaries in practice, you know she can live happily within them, and you'll know that she loves you when it's time to commit.
redhawkes 2 7mo ago
This is hive mind 101. If she's not in your frame, she'll get in someone else's, like girlfriends, media etc.
The only answer to "you only want me for sex" is worry when I don't
You're correct, this is caused by too much comfort and too little dread.
EurasianChad 1 7mo ago
Yup. Lack of options, too little self respect, inability to be content with self and needing a bitch in his life to make him feel worthy.
Some dudes here need to be more cold & callous. Not because you're a psychopath and want people to suffer, absolutely not. Its because you put yourself first. Have principles that if broken, you leave no matter what. That's the only way you will fully respect yourself.
AsianDude 7mo ago
You will need to decide if this girl is LTR material or just a plate.
If LTR, I personally think it is normal to do some fun things such as Movie, Dining, Trips etc. My personal preference is to ensure both ends contribute something (besides sex). Even if I am financially better off, I will insist that my LTR pay for 40% - 50% of dates. The key difference would be she could take me on cheap dates, as long as she makes the effort to plan for them. Good practice if you ever plan to build anything with a LTR.
If plate, then it's mainly a cost-benefit analysis. Can you get what you want at a cheaper price elsewhere?
mattyanon Admin 7mo ago
A girl who says this is not LTR material
AsianDude 7mo ago
I have only started LTRs with conservative 18 - early 20s girls who are virgins, so these relationships often don't start with sex and were not focused mainly on sexual experiences. I think it is okay to do non-sexual things to build up a long term relationship, as long as there is equivalent commitment and contributions from both parties.
I tend to agree with the posts from @Vermillion-Rx. I treat LTRs and plates quite differently.
Durek_The_Bald 7mo ago
Once they go there, there's only one response: "Ok". Then see other women.
If you let them strong-arm you by you giving in to attempted withholding of sex, the relationship is going to be shit from that point on anyways.
But if you just go "ok", and she comes crawling back, that's a much better dynamic, one you can build something on. But nothing good ever comes from giving in.
Overkill_Engine 2 7mo ago
A thousand times this. Once she realizes that she can lead you around by your dick, she's going to lose all respect/attraction.
Also note that this sort of ultimatum hardly ever comes with a counter offer of her initiating an enjoyable (for you) non-sexual activity. At best she offers something that appeals mostly to just her [I bet that movie she wanted to watch was boring as fuck] and then gets pissy that you'd rather default to a game of hide the salami. Note how she takes no responsibility for this outcome despite having plenty of power to make it otherwise. But no, she's going to try to dump it all on you.
Edit: It's just another form of that stupid woman trick where she doesn't want to decide on where to eat, leaves the decision to you, then gets all pissy when you didn't pick what she wanted - dumping all responsibility for her satisfaction onto you instead of exercising agency.
May as well consider that shit a form of emotional terrorism. Guess what happens when you give into those demands? That's right, they keep doing it.
Withdraw attention, including sex. Either she figures it out or stops being your problem. If she wants you around for something other than sex then it's her job to make it worth your time.
AsianDude 7mo ago
The way I have responded to this challenge in the past was to also list activities that I am interested in and challenge the LTR prospect to plan something I am interested in. Some include, playing sports, traveling, cooking, dining etc.
I have had LTRs and girls who would plan and pay for meals/movies etc., book sports facilities, partially sponsor my trips overseas, drive me to their place for dinner, cook meals personally and bring them to my place etc. Then I would reciprocate by doing things they were interested in too.
mattyanon Admin 7mo ago
Ok, you need to understand this deep deep in your soul.
"You just want me for sex" means "I am not as attracted to you as I was but I wish you to continue your provisioning and commitment but with less sex".
In short: you have shown too much provider behaviour and not enough demonstration that other women want to fuck you.
Women pull this exact line under the following circumstances:
It's a bluff to keep your interest while decreasing hers.
Women never say this when you use them for sex while seeing other women. They do not say it when you demonstrate zero commitment. Fuck buddies don't say this. They do not say it when they are fully attracted.
Painful, but you gotta understand this dynamic.
At this point you have to agree to stop you being a chasing loser. You withdraw your commitment, you see other girls, you see less of her. Less sexual interest from her means you are free to see other women AND YOU TELL HER THIS.
"That's cool, it'll create some free time to hang around with other people". Then whatever happens you back off, stop provisioning, and reduce your commitment.
And critically, when she gets all hot and horny for you again: you learn that this is how she functions and you never again show the same level of commitment to her.
Testme 7mo ago
First of all, lets determine the scientific reality: is "all you do" have sex? It takes 10 minutes to have sex, so does she come over, have sex, clean up and leave 10 minutes later? I doubt it. In fact, you said yourself that you have "hung out" with her and only "80%" of the time it leads to sex. So, something else must be happening. For her to say "all" you do is have sex is simply incorrect.
There are probably a couple of problems here: you are doing boring low-quality activities (like watching tv maybe) and then jumping on her. Doing that is going to elicit the reaction you received. The way she feels is that you are doing a lot of stupid, unsocial stuff with the goal of just getting her pants off. That kind of behavior makes it seem like you are "sexually needy" to her--which is unattractive.
So, you either have to change the relationship to a purely sexual one, which would require a lot more SMV than you have, or you need to cut down on your sexually needy behavior. For starters I would stop "hanging out" with her. Do not "hang out" with girls. Hang out with men only. If you are with a girl it should always be for a directed activity like cooking or making something, not "hanging out" and wasting time. "Hanging out" makes you seem needy and useless.
coolsocks00 1 7mo ago
Right, just get it over with already!
nicknack 7mo ago
Right, and for a guy she’s sexually into she will suck his dick for 8 hours.
it sounds like OP prematurely upgraded a plate to ltr and is now stuck a relationship that resembles a future sexless marriage
coolsocks00 1 7mo ago
Yea that was a joke