I'm a little in doubt over it. The thing is, I never really used to be so I'm not sure why I would be now. I think I just started to ruminate about it because I've noticed I haven't been complemented in a while, girls don't show me IOIs (Or maybe I've become blind to them), and it doesn't seem as though any girls check me out anymore either.
During my teens I was a bit awkward and insecure about how I looked, but I grew out of it pretty fast, got into good shape and received a fuck tonne of validation from women all through out my late teens and through all of my 20s. I was very sure I was a good looking dude, and just sort of accepted it as a fact of my life and no longer thought about it.
I know I won't be everyone's cup of tea, and that doesn't bother me at all but lately I've been ruminating as I said, and I'm starting to doubt if I was as good looking as I was lead to believe. Maybe I was deluding myself? Does it even matter? Not really. It's just something I'm pondering on. I'm sure it will pass, as all shit does. Some days I look in the mirror and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm definitely still a good looking motherfucker", but I'm not getting the validation from women that I've always received. Perhaps that's actually a confidence issue rather than a looks one though.
I'm still in good shape. My face is slim and toned up. I actually look a lot younger than my age, I do hear that from people still at least. And no, I'm not in my 40s. I don't know, dudes, I'm just confused and it's not something I'd usually discuss with anyone. Just thought I'd throw it out here.
Am I just suffering from doubt? Which to be fair, generally happens with a lot of things thanks to having OCD.
Edit: I'm quite sure I'm just suffering from doubt and low self esteem on second thought.
Red_dead 11mo ago
I’ve had this same question. In college I used to have girls always giving me iois when going to bars and coming up to me. I once had a whole sorority turn their heads at me, and I literally thought I was imagining it until my boy told me every girl wants to fuck me. Now I rarely get a look, no iois except on occasion. Although my game has never been strong I at least had options. Guys say it to all the time. But I have 0 girls who are into me. None been getting blown out like crazy.
Lone_Ranger 1 11mo ago
I read all of the comments, and I am surprised that nobody says this:
If you're spending any amount of time wondering if you're good looking to women, you have fallen into their frame. You have basically become 'female-like'. This is not the same as beta. I see a lot of guys strutting around, thinking they are alpha, but they have bascially turned them selves into synthetic women. You know the type: they look like gym bunnies, probably have teeth whitened, bit of sun bed in the off season, designer jeans, expensive clothes, a busy SM presence....you know they have become? Male in name only. they are basically females with cocks. They live for female validation.
Your entire post seems to reveal that you are much too focused on female validation. This is not how men are supposed to be.
Typo-MAGAshiv 1 11mo ago
Seconded.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Yeah, I totally agree. As I said, I didn't really think about it for years. Just assumed and felt I was attractive. Certainly not the mindset I want to be stuck in, but I did just let it go after this post.
Red_dead 11mo ago
My friend needs to read this
kncrew2112 11mo ago
Everyone struggles with it my man. Even more so I think with guys who have really muscular bodies, as that journey tends to increase your critique on yourself to being in perfect shape and trying to eliminate body insecurities.
I can count on my hands the amount of times I’ve gotten an in person compliment from someone I was attracted to. I look at my face every day in the mirror and say yeah I do look good, and then I see myself in a photo and see things I never saw in the mirror. Just the way it goes.
Maybe you need a refresh on your style? Are you wearing gym shark to the bar and grocery store? Are you wearing polos and boxy khaki shorts with sneakers everywhere you go? Try looking around at some trends this summer and change it up. I know the linen shirts and chinos are in for the summer at least where I’m at.
Maybe you need a change in scenery? Travel a bit if you can where you might be foreign to others. That’s the easiest way to get some attention. For me, blond guy out in South America or Asia would probably get more eyes than I do here in the Southern US. You know?
Just some late night thoughts…
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MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Yeah but my own opinion of myself fluctuates from day to day. I'm very honest with myself, but I'm also riddled with random doubts that ultimately amount to fuck all. I think I could look better if I put in more time and effort, but there was a period in my life where I was literally homeless for a while. I looked like shit and was malnourished, and yet I was still able to pull girls and stay over at their places. Not my proudest moment, but it proves regardless of how scraggly I looked, I must have still had something going for me.
That said, I don't think I'm ugly, no. I think it's more of a self esteem issue which is reflecting itself in my behaviour, the way I carry myself.
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MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Yep. You know what's up. As I said, it will pass. These things always do.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 11mo ago
I personally did not think I was great looking. I know I'm above average at least but I've never thought I was stunning
I had a FWB that bragged about fucking a "9" a year before me and she said it was great (she's a 6.5 tops) and I lost some frame over it. She even said I'm just a 6 or 7
In my loss of frame she ends up telling me I'm just above average, and wouldn't stand out in a group of "hot" guys
I never ask girls or anyone how I look. I just accept positive feedback. Before that FWB (and even before I lifted) girls told me i was hot. I didn't personally dwell on being hot or not but that FWB caused me so much doubt out of nowhere
.
Well, i tried to not let it get to me and I just kept fucking new chicks after I broke her, so I didn't let her words get to me.
Now fast forward, I'm talking to my buddy who's ripping on a guy for pulling via manipulation etc when he's not "even good looking" and then he starts telling me how guys and girls think that me, VRx, is good looking. Like an 8-8.5 and that other guys are always worried about me
Now. Do I think I'm an 8.5? No. Honestly I don't. But apparently a bunch of people said it
You can worry about your looks all day but that won't change what some people think of you. Whether what they think of you is good or bad. Some people will say bad shit about you for no reason and other will praise you
Unlike women, we are not near-completely at the mercy of our appearance, there is so much more to being a man of value than where you sit on a HB rating scale
Edit: I forgot to answer the question. You can tell by the kind of results you generally get from attractiveness of women you get as well as just general comments made
You also look in the mirror on a good day and be honest with yourself.
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Vermillion-Rx Admin 11mo ago
For sure. Still messes with you when the closest girl in your life says that to you at the time
But yeah she was probably just salty
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
I've heard it all, man. Girls calling me beautiful, gorgeous, hot, handsome, cute and the list goes on and on. I'm just not hearing it these days, and I could probably attribute that more to hiding myself away. The quality of the girls I usually get is pretty good IMO. Obviously attraction is more or less subjective though, so what I think is a beautiful girl, you might think is just cute. But I like to think my taste is pretty good: usually petite shorties with cute/gorgeous faces, hourglass figures with a tight slim waist and a nice ass to tits ratio. More ass than tits though is my preference. As far as personality goes, they have to be able to laugh at themselves, and be feminine as well. A little bit of masculine is usually not too bad (i.e, a girl with an attitude) as I've never met a girl who is more dominant than me anyway. Some do try though, bless 'em. They're usually the 'bad bitches' everyone wants to fuck, and they know it - I know they seem like more hassle than they're worth those ones, but I just like fucking conquering them. Anyway, I'm digressing.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 11mo ago
I think then given your history of success that you're just denying yourself the chances to be in situations that will give you such feedback
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Why would I be doing that though?
Vermillion-Rx Admin 11mo ago
I forgot what your general story was but wasn't it something something happened this or last year and you stopped gaming much?
You have to get back on your feet and get back into an emotional swing of wanting to try again. I've had times like that where I genuinely don't want to go out but then I forced myself to for a couple weeks and got back into it
It sounds like you're dealing with some kind of emotional turmoil but treating it like it's a mental thing and j think that's why you're not finding the answers you want. I think you keep targeting the symptoms and not the disease and you have to get back to a place where you are emotionally congruent with the things you want, like genuinely enjoying the pursuit again and genuinely enjoying having fun and meeting women again
Correct me if I'm wrong
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
You're not wrong, dude.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 11mo ago
In that case just start half way, find what you used to enjoy and go there. You don't have to put any pressure on yourself to perform or succeed.
Sometimes you have to reintroduce yourself back to what you used to do without the burden of outcome
Lionsmane8 11mo ago
Assume it.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Always did, my guy. There's a lot of truth to this. Hard to assume it when I'm having doubts right now though.
mattyanon Admin 11mo ago
In which case you are not appealing to these women. It's that simple.
I don't know this for sure, but I think Tinder and online dating has stopped women expressing/showing any interest in other men in public. Why risk smiling at a stranger when you can swipe on a hundred better looking dudes in the safety of your own home.
What happens when you go talk to girls?
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
To be straight up, I just think it's my self esteem honestly after thinking about it a bit more.
In person, or over the phone? To be honest, I haven't done that too much since coming out of the last relationship to even gauge it accurately. I've had girls laughing over the phone. Women smile at me when I talk to them, but I don't do that much at the moment. Girls do still look sometimes, but it's not like it was before. I honestly think the issue is with my outlook though and the low confidence lense I've been looking at life through.
There is one cute chick who works at this grocery store I occasionally go to, she's always there when I do. I haven't tried to game her or anything like that, but my instinct tells me she likes me. I could be wrong because my game and everything has been off lately - I was very good at detecting if a girl liked me previously. Even just from one glance. I also don't wanna shit where I eat.
Online's been different. Girls get aggressive and bitchy with me when I hit them up a lot of the time. I think it's because they automatically assume I'm a player though, and my approach is quite aggressive and forward, and I come across as cocky.
mattyanon Admin 11mo ago
Go talk to some girls
nicknack 11mo ago
This might be controversial but if you’re actually good looking you literally trip and fall into pussy pretty much non stop. When I used to work as a brand model for Neiman Marcus I paid an awesome personal trainer 5x a week, seriously counted calories / had abs, weekly haircuts and constantly had nice designer clothes from work, I nearly couldn’t leave the house without getting laid. Literally one time I was driving on the freeway and had a girl honk at me and signal me to take the exit; I did, and we went out drinks right then, had a fun night, and hooked up. She was a really beautiful, tall brunette. I later blew that by being too clingy way too soon, but we’re just talking looks here not game.
Pretty much every non fat guy I’ve talked to thinks they’re good looking, but honestly, the only way to know is by how many girls you’re smashing. I know from my experience when I’m not super lean, or start slacking on my style that the difference is night and day.
TLDR: you know if you’re hot because of results of being hot, getting girls throwing pussy at you non stop. The only real proof is in the pudding.
Red_dead 11mo ago
How tall are you? bf%, ethnicity? My boy is 6’3 Jacked and handsome can’t get laid to save his life.
nicknack 11mo ago
I’m slightly over 6’1, bf% ranges (during my 20’s I was always around 10%, extremely lean) ethnicity is Serbian (in the US people think I’m just white, Europe they think Italian).
As for being jacked, I have always personally had more success with women when I was thinner / slimmer rather than more muscular. Think Ryan gosling type body. Clothes and accessories look better on slim bodies.
Your friend must be doing something wrong if he’s not getting laid.
Looks wise, usually with guys it’s their clothes / style. It’s so much important than we are told. If you describe him as jacked maybe he’s too big? Tall skinny guys with style generally clean house.
Looks aside, the most important thing is just getting out there. Going out to a bar on a Friday and Saturday night isn’t enough. Be out of the house pretty much any time you aren’t sleeping. I personally got the most lays just pumping gas, picking up some food, meeting up with a friend for coffee.
Red_dead 10mo ago
Yea I personally think he might be too big. Former football player. His style is very good dresses to his body. But the top comment by lone_ranger describes him perfectly. Looks only he’s the most masculine appearing guy you’ll ever meet, even the way he speaks . But he’s extremely feminine once you actually meet/know him.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
I've been tripping and falling into pussy my whole life, that's the thing. I have a wealth of experiences, but since my last relationship it's been like the total opposite. Like you have, I've had loads of instances of just hooking up with girls at the rarest opportunities, and on a whim. I could get away with a ridiculous amount as well. Some of the shit I've done with girls, a lot of dudes honestly couldn't even dream of and I'm really not trying to brag. So I can only assume it's just a confidence crisis I'm going through, because that's really the only thing that's changed.
nicknack 11mo ago
Well then you have your answer.. you're attractive. If you're not getting results lately then you must not be as hot now as you used to be. Start watching style videos - get some cool clothes, shades, watches. Try to get closer to brad pitt / model skinny so these clothes look good on you. Something is missing. It's not confidence. Confidence does not matter that much, what matters is looks and putting yourself out there.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Well, I definitely haven't been putting myself out there for sure. My style is already pretty good I think, it's my own. In terms of physique, I would say it's pretty close to Brad Pitt's anyway lmao. Like a 155 pound Conor McGregor, just less muscular. But I'm working on that again.
nicknack 11mo ago
You got this shit.
I got laid the most when I was living in a literal shoebox studio apartment and refused to spend a minute inside because it was so small. Also lost my license for a few months and had to walk everywhere / catch rides. Just by virtue of being out of my house, and even out of my own private car, I was fucking a lot because I was coming across so many women. Also made lots of male friends for the same reason.
You don't have to take to that extreme, but I look back at that time very fondly.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Yep. I'm a drummer, and good at it. Normally I'd be out playing gigs a lot, meeting loads of people, sometimes partying like I was before and I got laid infinitely more than I do now. I was constantly out. Even when I was homeless as I've mentioned somewhere above, I was getting laid then too. Right now currently, I'm in doors like 95% of the time. No joke. It's sad, and I'm miserable/bored.
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MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
True, but sometimes I look in the mirror and I hate myself as well haha.
Problematic_Browser 1 11mo ago
Outcomes are the determiner of reality.
If you're attractive, your outcomes will represent it.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
I think generally my outcomes are pretty good. I've always been pretty fortunate, people treating me with respect and kindness, girls are receptive to me, people are lenient with me when I make mistakes, get a lot of opportunities etc. It's just been this period in my life since my breakup where I've lost confidence, doubt myself all of the time etc. I think I know what I need to do though: get back into proper shape, and put myself out into the world more again. I haven't been exposed to women anywhere near as much as I used to, I've been hiding away a lot.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
It's inflation. Every woman now thinks she's a 10 and can do better than you. I experienced it when I came back from Asia. In Bali I could get on Tinder and have 70 matches in an hour and get laid several times/day. I come back to the US and all I can get is a fat 50yr old.
nicknack 11mo ago
It's more so overvaluation of female value in the USA. A 5/10 in Eastern Europe is a legit 9/10 pretty much anywhere in America. The average American women is literally 5'3.5 and 170.6 pounds. The cities all have major gender imbalances between young men and women, with more men. Financially, young women do better than young men.
So a girl who isn't a fat peice of shit, has a job, and is under 35 basically has endless options, cannot choose logically and will only go for tingles. Chad, Tyrone, thugs, bad boys, rockstars.
The majority of girls, who are huge ugly pigs, date the bottom 80% of men and get picked up quickly because of the gender inbalance. Whats left is the fat 50 year olds.
It's the worst country in the world to date in. For the last 6 years I have spent the vast majority of my time in Eastern Europe dating thin, kind beautiful women. I work mostly remote. I do have to go back to the states for customer meetings and conferences. I dated some attractive girls there during my last few stints but they're still American, and dating a 7 there is more investment, stress and drama as a 9 overseas.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
Yeah it's crazy after you've seen both sides. When I went to Russia I flipped out because none of the chicks were fat and like 90% of women are attractive if not fat. So there I was running around surrounded by average women but I'm thinking they're all 10s. Imagine being some average chick in Russia that gets very little male attention and this exotic foreigner is willing to get with you and fuck you and likes you. This one chick I fucked was basically a Russian 4, over 30, married, had a kid and it was the easiest lay I've ever had.
Here's another pro tip: look at the median age of a country and pick one where it's the age of women you prefer. In the US it's 39.4. In Indonesia it's 29.7. Phillipines is 24.6. You go to the Phils right now and you'll be drowning in 24yr old pussy everywhere you go.
nicknack 11mo ago
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZM226mPMa/
I just saw this Tiktok. An American girl who’s blonde-ish and not fat is so attractive there that she’s social media famous in America.. comes to Europe and is invisible. Not a single guy even looks at her. She doesn’t understand what’s going on. Bitch the moment you got off that plane you dropped from a 8.5 to a 3.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
I've seen a lot of Western girls in my travels and they're usually the ugliest and fattest women around. So then they get all drunk and act out and get their teeth knocked out by the local women. Then they shut up and go home.
It's just another example of women trying to be men and failing. Going out and traveling solo is extremely risky and requires a bare minimum of knowledge of the culture and language of the country. Amsterdam isn't even a difficult country to visit but I can see how there's a lot of competition in the sexual marketplace.
Right now the passport bro thing is trending and all these fat black chicks think they're gonna be passport broads and get a foreign man. They don't even realize that men in other countries are going to expect her to cook, clean, shut her mouth, and act like a lady or else get back-handed.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
Yup, I checked. She's a big fat girl. https://www.tiktok.com/@woahkenzyy/video/7234266459369655595
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Time for you to identify as Indonesian.
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
Gotta get remote work first and then a digital nomad visa. I'm working on it...
nicknack 11mo ago
If going remote is your priority you can always get a job as an SDR/BDR at a tech company. They hire off the street and usually don't even require a degree. At the tech companies I've worked at BDRs/SDRs work remote. Pay is usually base + commission with around a 65k on target earnings. 2 years ago I was looking for jobs and landed an SDR position for 70k (flat rate, no commissions given). Ended up rejecting it because I found a better paying engineer job (97k also remote), but I have a degree specific to the role.
amazonri 11mo ago
Hey Im a digital nomad living in Brazil, but i do freelancing and kind of want a more serious remote job with a higher income, something ive been researching the past few weeks for a career change into a different remote work. im also American so i have access and privilege of working for American companies.
Youre saying I can get a starting job at 65k/yr entry level with no experience if i go for SDR/BDR?
nicknack 11mo ago
I’m telling you from my own experience yes. I landed 70k/yr SDR job after like 10 days of trying. The dude they hired alongside me was literally coming from working at Red Robin. That said we both had degrees. However from looking at dozens of SDR job postings none of them actually asked for degrees.
amazonri 10mo ago
Im going to start applying this week. I am basically building my resume from scratch. All of my resume is basically manual labor, so i wont even include it. I also have a 1 year gap of traveling where I was doing a bit of freelancing, but i dont want to include it because it wasnt full-time and they may think im lazy or something. The truth is that I did just enough to cover the costs of traveling full-time
What websites do you recommend I search for these jobs? Im also from California, so would I need to apply for remote jobs in California? I also am already in Brazil, so would I need to fly in for the interview process?
Ive done some research on SDR/BDR already and a lot of advice I read was to not tell your employer you are actually living fully remote, and to use a California VPN (since that is where my documented address is).
whytehorse2021 11mo ago
2 years ago everyone was hiring full steam. Now they're laying off full steam.
Durek_The_Bald 11mo ago
If you were lead to (really) believe you were good looking, then you were good looking. Ask any ugly person, right?
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
I have had a girl call me weird/creepy looking before though, even though I was 100% positive she actually liked me at the time and even her friend who I was seeing confirmed it. I think she said that though because I came on to her while I was seeing her friend, and she wanted to come across as uninterested out of respect for the girl I was seeing. But I don't actually know for sure. She was brutal about it.
Another girl called me an asymmetrical gnome, hahaha, but I found it funny. She was basing this on one intentionally dumb picture I had of myself, because she was actually mad at me for remarking that some goth girl looked like something that would crawl out of your tv screen at 3am and call you daddy - trying to give me a taste of my own medicine. So, I think their aim was to put me down rather than it being the truth. But who knows?
nicknack 11mo ago
Whenever I hear "women have told me I'm attractive", that gives me "Gemma you're gorgeous, queen" energy.
The way a female tells you you're attractive is by blowing you for free.
MidgetSpinner 11mo ago
Haha, I get what you're saying but trust me, the compliments I got weren't pity handouts. I fucked most of them.
Durek_The_Bald 11mo ago
True. That's why I put the "(really)" in there. 'Cause I don't believe that guy who doesn't get blown (really) believes he's good looking - just like the body positive chicks who gets complimented online don't (really) believe they're beautiful either.
OP's talking about IOIs though.
nicknack 11mo ago
From how I see it every guy who isn’t an ogre will get IOIs as women love men, and as long as you’re OK looking women will check you out wherever you go. Getting on their knees and blowing you is a whole other level of attraction though. Average guy gets a smile, cute guy a wave, handsome guy a number / date,, Chad gets a blowjob same day.
Durek_The_Bald 11mo ago
Depends on the context, me thinks. If we're talking about IOIs from randos on the street, you need to be good looking to have that. But if the context is where you can display a bit of game, then that's a different matter.