BACKGROUND
Ok so here goes. I'm M34, riggedved on Reddit. For those familiar, you might well know my post history, been an active contributor on TRP since 3-4 years post my oneitis LTR. Since that episode, which pretty much broke me, I discovered TRP, got into anger phase, improved myself, lifted, anger phase transitioned to acceptance, went on SR, monk mode, raised my SMV, and boy before I could put my finger on it, I was successfully spinning plates with desirable females. There have been points where I have had 6-7 plates together. Where I've fucked one and headed across the street and fucked another.
After spinning plates through 2019 - 2021, I found myself getting jaded with the mindless casual sex. At one point I just got sick of it, because honestly, it wasn't serving me any purpose. And I've had plates beg me to come and fuck them, done it in cars, in public parks, in the washrooms of nightclubs, in the parking lot, etc. Slowly my eyes began to open up on how slutty these girls were. Most of them told me about their past no-bars held. And to be honest, I respected them more if they were straight with me. This one plate, who told me that one time she was gang-banged DT, and how the experience was "intense", I respected that she saw me as a person with who she could share this with. She was always submissive towards me, one signal and she was there at my doorstep, dropping all her tasks. She wanted me to promote her to LTR, but I couldn't. Reason? Didn't want to LTR a chick with a past like that. I covertly told her the reason, and she understood and accepted.
A NEW CHAPTER
Anyway, fast forward a couple of months, I'm busy focusing on myself during the lockdown days. One fine day I install Bumble. I'm overwhelmed with the matches I'm getting, quickly escalating with all fit options. In the midst of this episode, I meet a particular girl, F31. Her demeanor is different than the other girls. She actively chases me, and was pretty explicit about it. She's attractive and has guys/men ogling at her all the time. With time, I discovered that she is different than most millennial girls in some ways:
- She wakes up at 5 every morning. Helps around her house chores, then leaves for work.
- Doesn't do drugs, pot or smoke.
- Is pretty focused in life i.e. doing well at her job, is intelligent.
- Not really that active on social media. However, she was super active on Facebook between the years 2012 - 2018.
- Works out. Lost tons of weight to achieve her dream body.
- She's submissive, actively obeys my command, and is eager to please me and do things for me. She's been happily sharing our pictures on her Instagram too.
- Does things to keep my family happy when she's around the house. By family I mean my 94-year-old grandfather.
- Was always ready for sex whenever I needed it. Never threw tantrums.
THE UPGRADATION
After 3 months, I promoted her to LTR, and I lost interest in spinning plates, which was anyway taking a lot of my time and not adding any value to my life. We then took a motorbiking trip to the mountains together, which was pretty gutsy. I doubt any other girl would be up for a hardcore adventure like that. It was all very spontaneous without much prior planning. During our 2 week trip, every thing went well, I didn't notice any red flags as such. We got along great. The sex was superb. The only thing I could pinpoint on was that since her past 5 years of working, she doesn't have much to show for it. She has a shopping addiction which she HERSELF admitted to me. She works as a content writer and is from a poor family, so monthly she sends some 20-30% of her income to her parents.
Anyway, after around 2 months in she asked me about my n-count. I start counting on my fingers and then I told her I dont remember, I've lost count. I asked her hers, she told me 1. I told her she's bullshitting obviously, which she denied, and I didn't think much of it and moved on. As per her, she has had a sexual relationship with just one person. ROFL. That was my reaction.
THE ENGAGEMENT
I didn't think of it much because things were going really great, really positive. Fast forward a couple of months and we decide to get engaged (October 15). We had the conversation about the past couple of times and she stuck to her story of "1". I didn't believe it and made it clear to her every single time, which she denied every single time.
So we got engaged, had a decent event, exchanged rings, my dad gifted her a diamond necklace, earrings, and nose ring (Part of my culture). At the outset, she seemed like a great gal. My family loved her too. We've fixed our wedding date, paid the deposit for the location, she's even got her wedding gown.
FUCK LTRS
Something happened just yesterday. I was on SR for 40 days, so no sex for us. She used to get very horny and was practically begging for it. Anyway, I had met my target of 40 days so we did it. After that, she started talking about her past, university stuff and all. Just general stuff. She was talking herself, I never asked. Then I asked her out of nowhere "Have you ever lied to me?" I like asking such question abruptly without giving a warning sign because that is when I get the best response.
She thinks for around 6-8 seconds, and says "No." Then she tells me that she has lied about small stuff like "I'm about to sleep" but instead of sleeping she watched Netflix.
The 8-second pause is a big tell that she has lied to me because she needed to think hard about it. The "No" and the explanation are big queues that she is obviously lying. I was kind of a serial lair myself, but when I turned 30, I made it a point to not lie to anyone. It made my life much easier, my mind clearer and less anxious, and so, I have never lied to her about anything. Not that it matters, those are my values and have nothing to do with her.
Back to the point: I call her out on her bullshit. I tell her that she's lying obviously, and I explicitly told her that people who lie about the little things are real dangerous ones. She defends vigorously. She then says "OK I've lied to you about my past. It wasn't one guy who fucked, it was two." Funny, I never even asked her about that, but she told me herself. Now I know thats bullshit too, my guts tell me she's full of shit. The "2" is kind of a smokescreen to hide the real truth. Any psychologist will tell you that. Anyway, she could have been just honest with me and made things easier.
I tell her to stop telling me about her past, cuz she is making matters worse for herself, and I asked her to just leave. She doesn't. She keeps defending herself and telling me about her n-count of 2 lol. I remain silent, ask her to shut up and leave. I told her her words dont match her actions. She's definitely experienced in sex. She was ready to fuck me on our second date, just that I didn't go for it. She knows how to do it in cars in stuff, so obvously she's experienced.
Now my question is: Obviously she has been lying to me about little things and other major things, so I've lost trust in her. What course should I take from here, considering the situation that our wedding dates are fixed, there is significant investment from both of our families. Bear in mind, she actively appeases me and does things to make me happy. My point is, I have lost trust in her because of her lying and admitting to it. Calling the wedding off will be a HUGE disappointment for my family and hers, especially my grandfather, who's practically doing everything to keep himself in good shape and alive (he's 94) for my wedding day. My entire family has been waiting exclusively for me 2 get hitched. So calling it off will have consequences. If it was just upto me, I would have called it off/delayed it whatever. But it is not. Lots of other people are involved too.
Secondly, could I have handled the situation any better?
Is it worth knowing about her actual n-count?
TL:DR: Read the whole thing, context is key here.
Still, if this is a major red flag (which I need asktrp's guidance on) that will cause me more losses than gains, then I will call it off, fuck whatever investment has been lost.
whytehorse2021 4y ago
I would postpone the wedding until you're 100% sure you know this person and are comfortable with her as a wife and mother of your children. There's a lot more that goes into vetting than what you've listed. The process takes about 2 years. Trust is one of the 3 fundamental pillars of marriage. The other two are respect and loyalty.
My wife was my best friend when we married. I revisited questions like n-count several times over several years and she always had the same answers. She still has the same answers after 20 years. You have a lot going for you at this time with both families helping vet each other.
The first time my wife lied to me was the last time my wife lied to me. It was something trivial but I set a hard boundary that she is never to lie to me. You could take this as an opportunity to do the same and set the frame for your relationship going forward. People aren't perfect, we all have flaws. Some you can live with, some you can't. I just can't run a family with my #2 lying.
Anyway, best of luck to you. Having a wife and kids has made my life much better.
Tooktheredpill 4y ago
Never ask about n count. They’ll never tell the truth, and if they do, you’ll never believe them. You make her n count determination by vetting over a long period of time and paying attention to her actions and behaviors.
I can ALWAYS tell if a woman has a high n count or not, and I’m sure most here can as well. It’s pointless to ask them.
STAYShredded 4y ago
I'm going to go against the trend of TRP here a bit and say that I reckon you are heavily focusing on the negatives... It seems she has lied about her n count, however, she hasn't really lied to you about anything else.
Sounds like a this girl is doing a lot to please you still. If U're interested, there is a massive section about screening LTRs in either TRP or askTRP sidebar. Find it, go through all the elements and compare them against her. I did the recently thinking about my 3 LTRs and comparing against girl I'm considering LTR ATM.
Anyway: the results, I found, my happyness in the relationships was directly connected to how many elements they passed vs failed (consider these like redflags). I think the specific article might be called like unicorn hunting and ngl if you find a girl who passes them all then she probably is a unicorn BC I don't think they exist as it's a very strict list.
Based on these results you can see how many red flags she has and if you want to continue Ur LTR... My best LTR still had 5 elements she failed, however, if i had my time again I'd suggest this was acceptable but justttt. As in for me I won't LTR a girl in the future with more than 5 of these. I have also been in an LTR with 11 of these elements and the relationship was fucking horrible I was sad more than happy ffs.
Anyway regards the problem at hand. Just be calm about it dude, sit her down with a drink or something, try to keep it unhostile as possible. Maybe even go on a drive so she dosnt need to make eye contact if she struggles with confrontation... And tell her you don't really mind about her past, however, you demand for her to be completely honest with you always and that her Lieing will not fly in your marriage just as you won't ever lie to her.
Regards to the situation at hand
sa_ill 4y ago
Makes sense. Gonna hunt the sidebar for the unicorn post you mentioned. I guess you're right, I'm focusing on the negatives. But she still said "I've lied to you about the small stuff." That shit according to me is a big red flag.
She has been calling and texting me since yesterday, I've stayed silent, not engaged one bit with her. Her messages are "The only lie I told you was about the 1 guy thing." I still think that is a pretty big tell that she's lying, again.
I want to know her proper n-count, for real. Do you think that is a good idea? If so, how do I bring that about her?
SheLarror1234 4y ago
nah, asking for n count is insecure. You should just move on, with the idea that she already has a 100+ N count. Dont be gullible... Dont pretend to be gullible. Just play it cool. What i would do is laugh it off (over drinks) and say something like "i actually lied to you about small stuff" Basically make up some n count lie/ play it back to her. Get her comfortable of telling you more of her deeper secrets by making her want to tell you. If you ghost her or act angry/sad/disappointed she will just not tell you anything and thats just going to make you lose frame
sa_ill 4y ago
I've ghosted her yes. She's texting me asking for my forgiveness etc. How do I respond back? I can't just be like "ok, lets talk." She needs to know clearly that she should never lie to me, and she needs to be punished for bad behaviour. Anyway, since past 2 weeks I have noticed her acting disrespectful towards me, telling me stuff like "that was such a loser move."
I wanna back off a little, and then approach her and tell her that I am delaying the wedding. I want to let her know that that is not how she should behave with me, and punish her / demote her for bad behaviour. I think delaying the wedding can work out well.
SheLarror1234 4y ago
like i just said, doing that WILL make you look bitter and she probably wont mess with you anymore. Are you reading the responses?
She already gets that you don't like lies but most importantly its about maintaining your frame.
Read my below response if you want to know "how to respond back". I'm telling you, if you go with what your planning(ghosting her), don't say i didn't tell you so when she and her family starts hating you.
Unless you want to completely cut her off and that's your plan, then i would not recommend doing all of the "wanting to let her know that is not how she should behave with me" revenge tactic. She wont respect you after that because then your frame is like a kid that gets mad over spilled milk.
NOW. If you still like her i would recommend doing what i said. Just jokingly brushing it off and in this way its better. If you invite her for drinks and say something like "To tell you the truth i also lied about ----" You both have fun and tell each others deepest secrets and what not, then at the end tell her your going to delay the wedding because "we both don't know each other fully like how we thought we do"
This makes it less embarrassing for both of you. And if your family asks why the wedding is delayed you can both tell them that your taking some space off to get to know each other fully before commiting for life. You already got family involved, so you have to be careful!
You have to be a man. You don't want it to be embarrassing for her when everyone's wondering why its delayed. She didn't cheat on you actively so its no reason to get her to hate you. Take responsibility for even planning and going through with the marrage in the first place.
What to do after the wedding is delayed is to seriously think. Do you want to really marry this chick you met online? You met her on bumble for heavens sake. Do you really think you know her? Shes obviously lying about her body count, and she obviously is disrespectful on the inside as shes already calling you hateful names for ghosting her for a while (disrespectful!).
OP...
STAYShredded 4y ago
Ngl I don't disagree that asking her number count for real will make you look insecure... But what's more important is that you do/know what you want (that is bring truly alpha). If you feel like you need to know her number count, then find out! I'd suggest same as discussion about Lieing. Essential you what her to feel not judged and safe (as in there will be no conciquences even tho there could be) Unfortunately you'll never know if she is telling the truth and even if she is you'll likely never believe her unless she lands on a number that matches what you think. This is why personally I would move on from the number count and not worry about this one too much, despite it being one of the elements in the post I discussed.
STAYShredded 4y ago
If Ur struggling to find the sidebar stuff... You can also Google enturepenersincars red flags as rich has also made one himself which is very similar to the one I'm talking about just not quiet as in depth... Ideally you'd use both of these criteria to mark girls against.
SheLarror1234 4y ago
Man you went ahead and wife'd LOL. Good luck man see you here in a few years.
Just kidding?
Anyways, I don't know if you want to hear the truth tbh. You already had your mind set on wife'ing this girl. I mean, you said you have experience in knowing just how slutty modern women are, yet you still decide to wife one up? Are you in the US with these marriage laws? Did you read up on the million of marriage horror stories from literally every truthful guy out their married? Do you know female nature? Your loss. Trust your intuition.
If you already know then why ask? You want us to tell you its not as bad as you already know it to be, and I'm guessing that's why you added context of:
"Calling the wedding off will be a HUGE disappointment for my family and hers, especially my grandfather, who's practically doing everything to keep himself in good shape and alive (he's 94) for my wedding day. My entire family has been waiting exclusively for me 2 get hitched. So calling it off will have consequences. If it was just up to me, I would have called it off/delayed it whatever. But it is not. Lots of other people are involved too."
I'm not saying that you should call off the wedding, but just recognize that this is YOUR pit that you are digging. And you know how they they say 'friends and family will be most peoples downfall'. Your on their stage, so now you feel pressured and in a corner. I personally would never marry but especially not with anyone i only met for a few months (it would have to be YEARS), and especially not some chick from the internet that can pretty much just erase her past and create one accordingly. You only know what she told you.
ColdHeart 4y ago
You knew she was lying about one body. Why'd you go any further with her emotionally?
You might be self sabotaging. Either way, fuck how anyone else feels, this is your life. You're in your prime years, options like a king. What is there to miss? & are you ready to forfeit your assets to this girl? doesn't sound like you are. So make a decision.
Personally, I wouldn't waste my time on some girl with the audacity to lie about that and then feel comfortable getting married to you. I don't care about body counts though, I don't think that has any correlation to someone's loyalty. What I do hate is manipulation.
It doesn't get better than spinning multiple plates and them begging you to fuck them. At least in our world. I think you have grass is greener syndrome. Maybe weed out what's left of the blue pill marriage fantasy that you have.
Semenbaptism 4y ago
A girl will never give you an honest answer about her past. I've been lied to by sexually inexperienced girls that were obviously either a virgin or had a very low count claiming they were huge sluts.
She told you 1, then 2... guess what comes after 2? She will continue to trickle truth you.
If you're looking for a girl to be honest with her past as a requisite for marriage, LTR... Prepare to stay single for the rest of your life.
anima 4y ago
I am fairly new to TRP, so just my two cents about marriage from a point of view you might need to hear.
33, married (one daughter) and currently divorcing my wife. No hate, no cheating etc. We just realized that we want different things in life (me wanting to be the best me I can achieve > RP). The hardest part was shattering our families` expectations - especially given the fact that me and my wife are being so unusually cool with the divorce and are incredibly happy and nice with and to each other.
So I get your point in regards to your families expectations. But how difficult do you think would a divorce be in comparison to "just" calling of the wedding? In addition, wouldnt ANY decision in favor of the wedding - based on what your families expectations are - be contrary to what YOU WANT? Let's say you comply with their expectations: would that be a man`s choice of life? Could you live with yourself (and her) that way knowing that you put other peoples feelings before your own happiness/ intuition/ gut? Doesn't sound like a red pill lifestyle to me... but those are things you have to consider. Let alone the fact that her actions led you to seeking out help here, are a red flag of some sorts..