TLDR: I'm in the kind of relationship with the type of woman I've always wanted and that the TRP espouses as the ideal, but now faced with the reality of starting a family and children, I can't bring myself to do it and it's tearing me up.
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I'll preface this by saying I've probably been red pilled over a decade now, 3 digit notch count, prestigious lucrative job yada yada only as to indicate the level of experience this question is coming form.
I'm mid 30s. When I was 27, I met a girl (cold approach daygame) who was 21 at the time. She was sweet, innocent, from a great family, extremely low notch count, who from the very first day made it clear she wanted a family and children. She stuck it out amongst other plates over about 18 months despite often wanting to leave because she sensed I wasn't a serious prospect as a committed partner. After being promoted to top spot, I sat her down and told her I loved her, and that I did see marriage and children in the future with her, but that I couldn't commit to sexual monogamy.
I had been jaded by the fact that no women I met came anywhere near to being close to LTR material, let alone wife or Mother material, and so marriage and kids just wasn't something I thought was a realistic possibility and I was totally fine with that. Yet somehow in front of me I had a so called unicorn that was completely dedicated to us, who even begrudgingly permitted me to see other women, though she decided she didn't want to be with anyone else but me. It seemed foolish to let her get away - wasn't this what all red pill men dream of orchestrating?
Fast forward 5 years around the time of COVID, I continued to sleep around but I knew it was killing her inside and that the situation wasn't tenable long term. I allowed her to move in with me and I told her I would only see other women if it was in another city and only as a one off thing. Last year I proposed. She made it clear every step of the way that she wanted children, and I said once I got past some extremely difficult professional assessments that took the last two years of my life, we would have kids.
Now that's done, and it's time to shit or get off the pot, my gut tells me I can't go through with it. She remains incredibly dedicated, and I literally wouldn't want any other woman to be my wife or mother of my children. But I can't help but think of the freedoms I would lose if I went down that path. The loss of finances and independence. The tedium of family life and dependents. The inability to have a forever rotating roster of women. The possibility that the hallmark husband and father life is only 2% of what is otherwise 98% of the time being bored and resentful. Our relationship is most certainly less than it was - I am struggling to have sex with her more than twice a month because I am no longer desire it, despite her being objectively gorgeous and begging me for it. Living together has taken the joy out of spending time with her, and I am most certainly taking her for granted. People talk about how high notch count ruin a woman's ability to remain loyal, but I feel like TRP mentality and continuously chasing ass for a decade has made it difficult for me to be happy with a good woman.
I literally have in front of me the best opportunity for 'happily ever after', am the envy of many a red blooded male, but I find myself hesitating and hesitating. I tell myself, what else am I going to do, chase more pussy, travel to more places, buy more shit that will make me happy for a week? I've done all of that and it's going to be a sad life as an old lonely man in the nursing home without a family around him. Despite telling myself this - I remain ambivalent, unappreciative of what I have, incapable of putting in the work and commitment to create a great relationship and loving family. Being unable to pull the trigger on putting a baby inside her and she knows this.
I think there's a part of me that knows if I had the balls, I should have called this off a while ago while she was younger to give her time to find a man that can give her what she deserves. Because I've stolen the youth of a woman who has done nothing but love me and I feel like a piece of shit because of it. She's 28 now and it's not the end of the world if she had to start over, but fuck it's going to be a stain on my soul and I just can't bring myself to leave her. What if walking way would be the biggest regret of my life? Do I need to just man the fuck up - but if so, why haven't I been able to do it yet?
Has anyone been in a situation like this, or have any thoughts on the matter. Have you been a fence sitter with family life and found it hard to renounce your old ways, gone through with it and then regretted it? Maybe you committed and came through the other side a better man?
Thanks for reading.

AbusiveFather1 1y ago
no you didn't
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
You didn't.
A unicorn, in the truest sense of the word, would never put up with this kind of relationship journey.
That being said, I've seen a handful of guys come through this forum having found the one girl in their life where (from their account) she doesn't really have any negatives, the guy likes her a lot, and it's essentially their ideal relationship.
And without fail, every time, the poster threw it away. And of the ones that came back with an update, they regretted it.
I can't endorse marriage so this is a tough question for me to answer but if she's as good as you claim she is, I don't think spinning plates for life is going to keep you any happier than having an idea partner. But again I can't endorse marriage so my advice is limited in that regard
P.S. I'm commenting based on what I've seen here on this forum and also from what you are saying.
dionysus1 1y ago
Unicorn was slight hyperbole. She was really young and she did actually try to leave early, but I convinced her to stay around by telling her she didn't seem like she was in a time in her life to be looking for something serious. Later rationalized this by saying look, aren't you glad I convinced you to stay around because we stayed together. I'm not proud of that and it seems to have bit me in the ass. A good lesson in honesty
What has held me back so far from letting go is those points you make about men regretting giving up an ideal relationship, and plate spinning and hedonism not being as fulfilling as a happy LTR. In this case, there is a line in the sand about children. If I don't want kids, she will walk, and it's not fair that I keep her from getting what she wants. So it's not just about whether I want a happy LTR, it's whether I want that + kids.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
Why did you make a new account lol
dionysus1 1y ago
My password wasn't working, and then I tried to use the forget password feature but the link was busted. Sorry. lol
redpillschool Admin 1y ago
@Vermillion-Rx there's some confusion because some browsers are now blocking 3rd party cookies which means when you login to trp.red it doesn't always auto-log you into forums.red (it used to). That leaves you in a state where you're logged into TRP.RED but not Forums.red. The forgot password link only works if you're not logged into trp.red.
So from forums.red if you click forgot password, it leads to trp.red, sees you're logged in, and doesn't bring you to the form. You have to log out of TRP.red first.
And yes, we have a fix on the way.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
@redpillschool
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
No problem
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
" You didn't find a unicorn"
Yup, she's not. But, she definitely see's him as her Best option, she can't do better than him. Hyper-gamy is a bitch for women
A Unicorn, would have moved on from him, from the moment she found out she was a plate.
My guess is also, that she doesn't have much $$, and he's willing to spend it on her, ie she moved into his place and probably doesn't pay for anything.
it's a "good" deal when you are broke
dionysus1 1y ago
I make considerably more than her but she has always pulled her weight financially. Equal rent, living expenses etc
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
Good assessment
pofkaf 1 1y ago
Your hamster is running a marathon. My man, you need some serious reassessment.
1) There are no unicorns. She is looking for a man to provide for her, and you're her best option. As soon as you marry, she'll have everything she wanted and will no longer need to keep you attracted. And if a better option comes along, she might monkey branch. All on your dime.
2) If you are unsure about marriage, don't do it. It seems like the tradeoff is not worth it to you. So why would you give up so many things that you want in exchange for fulfilling some "happily ever after" blue pill bullshit?
3) You are completely in her frame. You feel bad for "stealing the youth" of a woman. She "stuck it out." Guess what? None of that matters, and nobody except for your gives a shit. You need to build up your own frame before you even consider the possibility of a long term relationship.
You claim to be refilled for over a decade. Yet it seems like you haven't learned shit. Do what you want, but don't come crying in another decade when she breaks your heart.
dionysus1 1y ago
I disagree that the idea of being able to provide for a family, raise well adjusted happy children and having a loving stable relationship is inherently blue pill and I think there is validity in it being an ideal to strive toward. I do agree that the concept of happily ever after is a reductive disney idea. The reality is that it requires a lifetime of work and sacrifice. I think a lot of it comes down to the ideas of meaning vs joy. Raising children and monogamous commitment brings meaning, but not joy. Pursing hedonism and freedom gives a lot of joy, but inherently not much meaning. I struggle to know if children will bring me meaning or not. And it's not like you can try it on for size before committing.
MrSupreme 1y ago
i tell guys here not to lie to girls, you were somewhat honest by telling her theres other girls on the side,she accepts that and it is a nice arrangement.
This time youre lying to yourself, you appreciate the girl,you keep commiting but you know youre full of it and youre not ready for the monogamy,the kids and the wife and the house. You took it as far as proposing to her and telling her you want kids when you come here to post otherwise. I think it is a bit late to tell you not to force a lifestyle youre not into.
What it isn't late for is to get out of that commitment but it will of course be messy,there will be heartbreak and youll feel like no other woman will be that good,which is bull cause there are plenty of women who will be just as good. You havent knocked her up,youre not married yet.
If youre looking for a way out,this is your chance but dont expect it to be easy.NGL, it is pretty shitty to have gone all the way to where you are now and then want to back out because of something youve known all along from the start.
dionysus1 1y ago
This is a sobering insight about lying to myself. I think having such a great prospect of a wife and mother combined with some idea I've inherited about the family ideal led me this far, but now my gut is telling me that I'm lying to myself. The former may still be true, but the hard reality may be that I'm not capable of putting in the work to create an environment where a family will prosper. Part of my still holds on to it though, but I'm not sure how much of that is the part of me that is scared of acknowledging my error and the chance of regret. Appreciate the honesty.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 1y ago
There is generally no reason to not be honest asa man of value. That doesn't mean dumping unsolicited information onto women or telling her your most vulnerable embarrassing crap but there is never a good relationship reason to lie about your preferences etc.
Any woman who is genuinely down for you will accept your honesty and any time there is a dealbreaker such honesty saves both people's time
Typo-MAGAshiv Endorsed Contributor 1y ago
No such thing. Most unicorns are just donkeys with a dildo superglued to their heads.
I added that last word based on everything else you said in that post.
Most Red Pill writers over the years have said what a bad deal marriage is for men, no matter how great the woman ostensibly is. The laws work totally against us and incentivize the woman to file for divorce.
Depending on your state, a prenuptial contract can protect you. Check out James Sexton on YouTube. He's a successful divorce attorney based in NY. I recommend the discussions he had with Rollo. He tells that in his over 25 years of being a divorce attorney, he has never had one of his prenups overturned, and he also has never successfully gotten one that he has challenged overturned, and has never even seen one get overturned. There's a common refrain in the manosphere that prenups are worthless, and I've been guilty of repeating that in years past. Talk to a few attorneys in your area.
Anyway, no one can make this decision for you.
However, I can tell you these things:
1) every man I've ever known who has found a woman as good as you say this one is, if they discarded her, they've ended up regretting it.
2) even good women can turn awful after a few years. If you decide to marry her, don't get complacent.
3) why get the state involved at all? Is there any reason you two can't live together and have kids without getting married?
She freely gave that youth to you.
Anyway, I've been married for 19 years. If I could do everything over again, I'd have never married anyone, ever. But that's just me.
dionysus1 1y ago
Agree marriage is a terrible deal for men. The best defence is a prenup and a woman who isn't out to divorce rape you, to the best of your assessment, which was my strategy but it's still very fallible.
I'm not in the US, and here we have a defacto relationship whereby not marrying doesn't protect you if you've been together for any period of time, so marriage itself is less of a risk. You'll get fucked if you're married or not.
It's your point 1 that I worry about. Time will heal all, but I know I will regret leaving her. I'll reverse unicorn widow myself, or something. I just don't want to make the wrong decision and let go of something that truly would have made me happy, to chase something that just won't be fulfilling. It really just comes down to having children - if I decide no, she walks, understandably. If I'm not all in for kids, then as you say in point 2 I will become resentful and absent and complacent, and then probably get fucked in the divorce.
Can I ask why you wouldn't marry again, but have remained married?
No-Stress-Cat 1y ago
Found a gold nugget, gentlemen LMAO.
Musicgoon78 3 1y ago
Holy oneitis Batman!
There's so many things wrong with your mindset. The type of woman TRP espouses as ideal.
What the fuck are you doing bro? No one here is asking for your credentials or how long you've been unplugged. It doesn't fucking matter. You're not getting a medal. You've got a bunch of mindless lemming spergs pushing tradcon values and you drank the Kool aid. Not once have I said: "what would the larpers and spergs on TRP think of my preferences and girlfriend choices? Would they approve"?
Your another victim of thinking like another sheep and taking this shit like religious dogma.
She stuck around because of hypergamy. You are seen by her as the top option.
You haven't stolen the youth of a woman and you shouldn't feel sorry for her. She's an adult and made the choice to stick around.
If the red pill is all about telling me what I should value and who 8 should date or marry (it's not) then fuck TRP!
Listen bro, my ideal woman is a total slut with a good sense of humor and a fowl mouth. She has to share me on occasion. I like chubby chicks and fit chicks. I don't give a fuck what anyone in this server thinks. I have enough strength to say this is what I want.
Now I don't know why you have this faggy "happily ever after" Disney fantasy. It's difficult being married. It's not fun. It's expensive. Having kids will limit your options and freedom.
So let's be honest here bro. If you wanted this bullshit fairytale you would have put a ring on it. You know you don't want it. We can read that you don't want it and that's ok. You can't live your life to please someone else.
Now get your head out of your ass. Call it off with this girl. Accept that she will cry, but you are actually being kind by being honest and do what makes YOU happy.
dionysus1 1y ago
Was never seeking validation. The point about dogma and groupthink is well met. Being agnostic to all of that, I do think that family and children can be a path to happiness and fulfilment. If it wasn't, we would have no psychological motivation or evolutionary imperative to reproduce and child rear. The greater question is that is it right for me - and I think I'm realising that if the answer isn't 'fuck yes', in today's day and age, it seems like the odds will be so incredibly stacked against you.
I appreciate the real talk. I needed to hear that last sentence.
Wintergreen 1y ago
You have to make your own decisions with this girl.
derdeutscher 1y ago
I will just say if u decide to stay with her, find a way to bone her more than twice a month. Woman, when fucked less then she desires will show you very quickly that unicorns are nothing else than a myth. In an ugly way as well.
dionysus1 1y ago
Hard agree which is why I know it's an issue. If you have a sexually unfulfilled woman, all bets are off.
I read something ages ago by a guy called '60 years of challenge' that before the LTR, the challenge is to get her to remain attracted to you. After the LTR, it's the challenge is how remain attracted to her.
Honest question, are people in 5+ year LTRs fucking their girls multiple times a week? Do you remain truly attracted to them without effort? I honestly worry that optimising for sexual novelty throughout my formative years has wired my brain to seek only that and I get so easily bored (the ADHD doesn't help). I feel like I saw sex as a way to pleasure myself and fulfil my ego, not as a communion to bring to people that care for each other together.
I know that if I can't fuck more than once every two weeks, this is enough of a reason to call it off.
Musicgoon78 3 1y ago
7 year LTR here. I love my girl! She's super sexy and dirty. I want her all the time. I fantasize about her all day. I tell her to send me dirty pics. We fuck at least 4 days a week if not 6. Mind you it's not been this way for every woman. That means they were a bad fit.
Wintergreen 1y ago
TWICE A MONTH???? That’s so minimal that would not be enough.
derdeutscher 1y ago
Yeah well OP stated he fucks his girlfriend twice a month and she wants more..hence my statement. I fuck them twice a month if I want them to leave and I dont want to break up with her first . ????
Intrepid_Place53900 1 1y ago
The main thing I see here is that, she wants kids, you don't.
That's "The" most important thing in the LTR/marriage. I've seen very successful, I'm talking they started, owned large companies, go this route. They married trophy wives, had kids, but didn't really want the kids. I've got to tell you, the kids when they grew up knew it and they don't have good relationships with the Dad. In fact, they generally want to go to high school, away from home. To me, like why bother having kids.
You have to want kids, you have to understand it will change your life and accept that. You clearly don't.
So, I'd tell her that, you thought you could, would get used to the idea, you clearly don't.
That will probably end the relationship. Which she should do, if she wants kids.
Did you lead her on? Yes, that's not cool, but deal with it like a man and be honest with her now.
Now, after you state that, if she still wants to stay and states she can deal not having kids. You got a different problem. Like I said, be a man and be honest about the deal.
dionysus1 1y ago
Appreciate the insight on those relationships. If the kids hate the Dad, then for sure they shouldn't have done it, it's so hard to know in advance if you can step up or not. I wonder if those men regret it as well.
She has stated she will leave. Which is very understandable. To be honest, the hardest part will be facing the fact that for the woman who has dedicated her life to me, I have severely hindered her pursuit of the most important thing in life to her, because I wasn't honest with myself or had the balls to face facts. Deal with it like a man and be honest - appreciate those words.
First-light 2 1y ago
If you don't want kids, just run or it will end badly and bitterly and she may really feel she wasted her best years on you -and be right.
If you do want kids, then maybe you need to decide if you will get any better options. Here you need to look at her purely as mother material -not just in doing the job but also in being bright, healthy and having enough drive to put fire in your kids.
Whatever you do. Just don't marry. Its not worth the risk if you think she is fantastic and in your case it would be insanity to marry a woman you don't really desire or respect.
Its very hard to start fancying someone you stopped fancying. Almost never happens.
Has it just been too easy. Is it too hard to leave the safety of the secure relationship?
Anyway do think carefully but then do move decisively. Leaving women all in a dither and hanging on by their fingertips always ends badly. Dread is a poison that women build tolerance to. But it has the side effect of huge bitterness if they really invested in you.
dionysus1 1y ago
If I do want kids, I'm very satisfied that I don't want a better option as mother. Her being ideal for me is part of the reason I stayed so long.
It's the kids decision that is so hard. There just seems to be so many downsides, when I talk to parents and read r/regretful parents, it just seems objectively to be so difficult, for moments of 'its so fulfilling in those tiny moments but it's impossible to explain just trust me bro.' But I know in this moment, with this person, is the time to go for it if I ever wanted to, and some part of me really does want it - I'm just worried that I don't have enough enthusiasm to put in the work required to do it right, because it really is so fucking hard to do it well.
The point about desire is also real that I need to acknowledge - it's only going to get worse after children. But I can't help but feel like it's just by virtue of 7 years together. Surely people stop fancying each other in the raw attraction way at some point - it just requires work to keep each other sexually satisfied and interested in one another. I have work to do there as well. Arguably, if I haven't been able to make that work at this point, I'm not going to make it work when you add kids to the mix.
mattyanon Admin 1y ago
No you don't.
She's female.
AWALT. No exceptions.