History: Apologies for those who are reading this for the third time.
Over in r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen, someone posted screen caps of a single mom's blatant daddy-baiting Tinder profile. I made a passing reply to u/Typo-MAGAshiv about single moms. It was mostly just for his entertainment and nothing else. That ultimately led to Typo asking for additional details about my ex so that younger guys might learn some helpful stuff. So, I wrote up what I called the Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs. I thought it was good enough to be informative even if it was sort of messy.
But since that was one comment made in passing and would be easy to lose, I thought it might deserve its own WAATGM post. So, I screen grabbed my Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs and posted it there as its own thread.
u/moorekom saw the screen shot, recommended a clean up and tweaking of the Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs comment and posting it here. He suggested the possibility of pinning it here so that everyone can use it for easier reference.
So, while I'm usually reluctant to post something three times, (A) his suggestions made a lot of sense and (B) he might be able to expand the good that my Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs can do. All in all, it all seemed fair enough to me.
So, I have taken this opportunity to patch up a few things, reorganize the Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs list and try to make a more sensible presentation. Hopefully, this will be the final time that the Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs will need to be posted. :)
Definition: Daddy-baiting is a form of love-bombing. What distinguishes daddy-baiting from conventional love-bombing is (A) it's a single mom doing it and (B) she's acting in the interest of her kid(s). A daddy-baiter is not necessarily out to exploit your resources for her own personal gain. Don't get me wrong, she probably will anyway. But that's not rly her goal. Her goal is to drain your resources to benefit her children. And in order to do that, she will love-bomb tf out of you. Her methods are a lot like regular love-bombing, but cranked up to 11 until your ears bleed. A conventional love-bomber might say that she loves you too early in the relationship once. A daddy-baiter will say she loves you too early in the relationship multiple times every single day. A love-bomber might send you a handful of mild nudes of herself to keep your interest. A daddy-baiter will make multiple explicit videos of herself multiple times a day just for you. Then she'll ask for your feedback. Then she'll incorporate your feedback in the next day's explicit videos. Basically, think of daddy-baiting as an especially potent form of love-bombing carried out by predatory single moms to benefit their children.
Her agenda in such heavy duty love-bombing is to drag you to the altar so much sooner than you'd ever be ready to go. Once you put a ring on her finger, she will immediately call for an armistice in the love-bombing campaign. After that, you'll be just another under-sexed, unappreciated, hen-pecked, defeated husband.
Bottom line? Don't be that guy. And above all else, NEVER DATE SINGLE MOMS. Ever. Never ever. I'm MGTOW so I oppose the modern institution of marriage as a matter of simple principle. But if you MUST get married (which I discourage in the strongest possible terms), the LEAST you can do for yourself is avoid single moms.
Purpose: Men, esp young men, need to understand the pitfalls of dating single moms. And single moms reading this should understand that stories like mine are a big part of the reason why single moms have such a hard time finding "good men" to be with. Man or woman, married or single, parent or childfree, I ask each of you to take the time to consider and internalize everything I'm saying here. My relationship with this single mom is what inspired the Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs.
Disclaimer #1: Men who are dating a single mom who seems perfect, you need to know what you're up against. She's not "different" or "special" or a "unicorn". She's just as predatory as my ex. But she's probably doing a better job than my ex did at hiding her true agenda. You're a big boy, you make your own decisions. But my best, most heartfelt, sincerest advice is for you break up with your single mom girlfriend as soon as possible. If you think that my story can't happen to you, think again.
Disclaimer #2: For some reason, some guys are tempted to comment with something like "Herp a derp, tHiS CaN aPpLY tO ALl wimmenz". No. It can't. Daddy-baiting is a tactic of single moms for a specific purpose. So, while childless women might employ a few similar tactics, the specific tactics will be different and they will be done to serve a different agenda. Daddy-baiting is something single moms do. If you generalize it to all women, congratulations, you've missed the entire point.
Preamble/Background: When I was younger and still BP'ed, I met a beautiful woman. She seemed super attracted to me and I thought she was sexy af. Jet black hair, super pale skin, plump lips, six feet tall, hot hour glass figure, the whole program. I'd say she was probably 7/10 or 8/10. Obviously tho, she was a single mom. She'd given birth to boy and girl twins about two years before we met. This relationship was highly instructive. By the time she was through with me, I was well on my way to TRP.
Is that enough CYA? Good, let's begin!
Daddy-Baiting Warning Signs
(1) Speed. The single mom falls for you way too fast. Srsly, what are the odds that she's already fallen in love with you a month after meeting you? Real and genuine love takes time to grow and mature. It's totally possible for a woman to experience the tingles instantly upon meeting someone. But lifelong love (if such a thing even exists anymore) is not instantaneous. The reason for this is women intuitively understand that it's harder for men to find love than it is for women to find it. The purpose of this phase is that by signaling that she loves you, the daddy-baiter is hoping that you'll reciprocate before you're actually ready because you're too giddy at finally feeling love (fake tho it is).
This is one thing my daddy-baiter wasn't very successful with, admittedly. I'd always had women in my life (unless I didn't want them in my life) so there wasn't very much novelty in a woman blatantly making passes at me, flirting, telling me she loved me, etc.
(2) "Cute" invasion of privacy. The single mom practically stalks you. She talks to your friends and family without you. She says that she's getting to know the people in your life and becoming closer to you. She cruises ancient stuff from your social media to "learn more about your story". That's what the daddy-baiter says. But that's a lie! What she's rly doing is gathering intel. She wants to learn who you are without directly asking you. Her objective is to make herself irresistible to you. If you love playing video games or watching the NFL or whatever, your friends/family will probably tell her so. And surprise! You'll quickly discover that she loves that stuff too! The purpose of this phase is for you to start thinking "She's my soulmate". But remember, she's not your "soulmate". She's manipulating you. She probably hates that stuff, actually. But she's humoring you. For now. But don't get comfortable, son.
My daddy-baiter worked her way through literally my entire Facebook (which was the big network at the time, not so much now). I thought it was strange that she suddenly knew stuff about me that I never told her. But you could learn a lot about someone just by reading a year of their Facebook back then. And she read it all.
A daddy-baiter will also contact your friends and family. Do not assume the loyalty of your female friends/family members. My view is that the sisterhood sticks together. Women might break ranks with the sisterhood to benefit themselves. But it will be a cold day in hell (i.e., Satan will need a parka and a heating pad) before most women break ranks with the sisterhood for the benefit of a man. If a daddy-baiter approaches your female friends/family wanting to know how best to reel you in like a fish, marvel not if your female friends/family gleefully help her do it. Cynical? Maybe. But it pays to be on your guard.
(3) Compatibility. Related to the above, it seems like you have EVERYTHING in common with this woman. In fact, if you didn't know better, you'd think you have a statistically impossible number of things in common with her. And more and more commonalities seem to surface all the time! But remember, it's all an illusion. She's been gathering information about you. And now she's exploiting it. The purpose of this is for you to feel artificially closer to her. She's said she loves you, she gets along so well with everyone in your life, you have so much in common with each other. Doesn't ANY of this seem a little too good to be true? But remember, these lovey-dovey similarities won't last. She's lying to you. Once the rings are exchanged, be ready to find out real quick what she ACTUALLY thinks of the NBA or gaming or whatever your thing is. But for now, the purpose of this phase is to create an artificial emotional bond with you.
(4) Ego. The single mom is way too complimentary to you, telling you how you're different from the other guys, she's fallen hard for you, blah blah blah. It's manipulation. Her likely success in this is nothing for you to be ashamed of. Everybody has some amount of vanity. Men receive so little validation from the outside world that they're prime targets for this. Remember, you may be good. But NOBODY is as amazing as your girlfriend describes when she talks about you to you. Keep it in perspective. The purpose of this phase is to appeal to your vanity.
The daddy-baiter I was with always complimented me on two separate things: my, y'know, size and my seemingly "unbreakable confidence". In terms of size, I honestly don't know how I stack up to the average. Maybe my size is something special. But in terms of confidence, I happen to know I could lose my cool once in a while. So, I didn't completely believe her compliments. These remarks made me a tiny bit suspicious early on.
(5) Bedroom. The sex is incredible, experimental and FREQUENT. The daddy-baiter is thirty-something but wants it twice a day if possible. It seems like there's no sex act she can't wait to try out with you. But it's a scam! The purpose of this phase is to create a physical bond with you through the greatest sex you've ever had. But consider. Do you honestly expect this to continue after the wedding day/honeymoon phase?
My daddy-baiter sent me nudes all the time. I was BP'ed back then, like I say. But I was also paranoid. I did not want to be responsible for someone's nudes. So, I immediately deleted them when they arrived. You guys do what you want. But when a woman sends me nudes, I instantly delete them and I encourage you to do the same.
(6) Rushed commitment. The single mom is already talking about marriage. But how likely is it that she already knows she wants to marry you? Best case scenario, most people need at least a year to figure out if they even want to marry someone. Now, I'm MGTOW. So, you should all know what I think about marriage in the first place. But for the rest of you, wouldn't it seem weird if your best guy friend said he wanted to marry someone he'd only known for a month? But that's what the single mom is saying to you now. And the reason for that is because she's PUTTING ON AN ACT. But she knows she can't keep up the act forever. Hell, she knows she can't keep it going much longer. So, the purpose of this phase is all about getting you tied down NOW.
The daddy-baiter I dated was talking about marriage within two weeks of getting together. No joke! I liked the attention. But the M word was a lot of pressure straight out of the gate. But I can't help thinking a lot of guys would've fallen for this.
(7) Her true agenda. The single mom says that she already thinks of you as a stepfather to her kid(s). We come to it at last. This step is not incidental. Her timing in telling you this is cold and calculated. She thinks you're ready to begin thinking of yourself as a resource-provider for her child(ren). This was ALWAYS her REAL agenda. Everything else on this list is chaff. This is the wheat. The stepfather thing is emotional blackmail on her part. It's meant to manipulate a man's instinct to assume the role of provider and patriarch. Does this seem heartless? It shouldn't. A single mom's children are just one more weapon in her arsenal. Her children are her pawns. But they're also her prizes. Everything she's doing on this list is FOR THEM. Not for herself (which is what separates her from childless female predators) and certainly not for you. A daddy-baiter does everything else on this list for her children. She sees her children as legitimate weapons. AND SHE WILL USE THEM AGAINST YOU. Don't ever forget that. The purpose of this phase is manipulate your male instincts of leadership, fatherhood and patriarchy into serving her agenda.
My daddy-baiter straight lied to me. She said her twins called me "daddy". But always when I wasn't around. When I was around, they just babbled because they were babies. Nevertheless, she kept using the words "step-father" and "father" in reference to me a lot, esp near the end. It stood out like a boulder in a swimming pool because of how unnatural it felt to me.
(8) Family bonding. Literally everyone in the single mom's life instantly adores you. Isn't that strange? You mean to tell me not ONE friend or family member doesn't instantly like you? The daddy-baiter told you that her bestie is a chain-toting, man-hating feminist. But when you meet her bestie, the bestie is all sunshine and ice cream cones with you. That seems kind of strange, doesn't it? Well, it shouldn't because the daddy-baiter most probably warned all her friends and all her family way ahead of time to be on their best behavior around you. The purpose of this phase is to make you feel welcome and comfortable around her friends/family. But you must be realistic. The charade by the family and friends will end after the wedding day. Or after you break up with the daddy-baiter. Which is what you should do.
The feminist thing isn't just hyperbole. The daddy-baiter's ultra-extreme feminist friend always smiled and made nice with me. The problem was, the daddy-baiter had told me too much. Without getting lost in unnecessary backstory, the daddy-baiter and her best friend weren't necessarily just friends. They'd never done anything together. But they used to spend a lot of time alone with each other when no one else was home. And when they did, they'd turn on music and get completely undressed. I think each of them hoped the other would make the first move. But they both always chickened out. It was a passing interest for my daddy-baiter. But for the freak feminist friend, I think it was a much deeper attraction. The friend saw me as an interloper and (near the end) her facade gradually melted and she made it clear that she would never approve of my girlfriend EVER dating a man, sleeping with a man, marrying a man, etc.
(9) No demands and no drama. The daddy-baiter seems like the most easygoing girl you've ever met. She's super low maintenance, easy to be around, never imposes on you. But isn't that strange? She's stuck at home all day. And yet, NOT EVEN ONCE does she need you to drop off milk or diapers or something. Odd, yes? Well, there's a reason for this. The daddy-baiter isn't making requests from you (yet) because she's priming you. Trust me, YOU WILL BECOME HER SLAVE after the wedding day. Everything that she never asked for during the dating phase will be demanded in triplicate after she has you locked up. Married or single, a mom's life is chaos with a side of anarchy. If you never experience that from her, it's because she's consciously shielding you from it to sweeten the deal. Trust me, once you slide that ring on her finger, you're going to find out real quick what her hell spawn kids are truly like after you finish off the 10,000th item on your Honey-Do extortion list. The purpose of this phase is to lull you into a false sense of security.
The above is basically what happened with my daddy-baiting ex. She never asked for ANYTHING, even when I had good reason to suspect she legit needed stuff. I only put the pieces together later on why it was she didn't ask me. She was biding her time.
(10) Baby-trap. This the worst case scenario. This is the daddy-baiter's Break Glass In Case of Emergency nuclear option. The daddy-baiter can intuitively recognize that you enjoy all the above stuff. But you're still not completely sold. Some instinct you have is warning you that this is all WAY too good to be true. That's when the daddy-baiter transforms into the baby-trapper. That's when she has an "oops" pregnancy. The excuses are basically always the same too. "It was an accident! I forgot to take my pill! Pills aren't 100% anyway! But who cares, I love you, let's get married!" This is her last ditch, Hail Mary effort at tying you down. And that's what my ex tried with me. She realized that I subconsciously wasn't completely buying her act. So, she got desperate. When her attempt to baby-trap me backfired, the mask came off, the claws came out and she went full reeeeeeeeeeeee.
Pro-tip #1: My daddy-baiter said that she was on the pill when we first met. I even watched her take her pill on a few occasions, always at the same approximate time each day. So, I have no reason to doubt that she was on the pill at that time. She was probably telling the truth at the time. But talk is cheap and BS runs the marathon. If your woman says she's on the pill, ask to see it. Watch her take her pill. If a woman who claims to be on the pill refuses to comply with any of that, that's a red flag.
For most women, there's only about a 48 hour window each month during which she can get pregnant. Women tend to know exactly when those fucking 48 hours are too. There are very few genuine "accidental" pregnancies.
Because to assume that so many accidental pregnancies can happen, you pretty much have to believe that most women are too fucking stupid to understand and manage their own bodies and pill schedules. Sort of puts a different spin on the "It's my body" argument, eh? But let's be realistic, the great majority of women are shrewd enough to understand that openly baby-trapping a man isn't a good look. Hence, all of her "It was an accident, tee hee hee" excuses. Don't fall for it. There are no accidents. The daddy-baiter-turned-baby-trapper knew that she didn't have you locked down before. But she also knows that one way or the other, her "accidental" pregnancy will fix that.
My daddy-baiter attempted this with me. We finished up one day and almost instantly she pulled her knees up to her shoulders.
Pro-tip #2: The knees-to-the-shoulders thing is a fertility technique meant to increase a woman's chances of conceiving. If you boff a woman and see her immediately do that, that's a red flag and you're in deep trouble. Somewhere in our second or third or however many months, after we finished up one afternoon, she pulled her knees up to her shoulders.
I knew all that. But I guess she assumed I wouldn't understand or recognize what she was doing. But this proved to be her final mistake. Because it was then that I realized that I hadn't watched her take her little pill in a quite a while. Further, I realized that she was trying to get pregnant.
So, naturally I called her out on that. And her reaction was like Palpatine in Episode 3. Instantly, the daddy-baiter's mask slipped and I saw the creature that had always been lurking underneath.
There could be more that I'm overlooking now. So, any RP/MGTOW/whatever men reading this should feel welcome to use this comment for whatever purpose they need. Mods, feel free to add to/repost/share/pin/delete this post as you see fit. Do whatever you want.
I reiterate DO NOT DATE/MARRY SINGLE MOMS. And if you're dating one now, dump her and move on with life.
tl;dr- Fuck that, read it. The life you save could be your own.
Divine-Nemesis 2y ago
I was just linked to this by the mods and HOLY SHIT! This is my experience to a tee with single moms and a couple exes that tried to baby trap me with the knees to the shoulders. Maybe the line drive I took to the nuts playing baseball when I was a kid saved me because I am infertile. I did want kids at one time, I repeat One time, in my life and tried but now I thank the heavens I am infertile because my dumbass always did the pull out method because my blue-pilled dumbass thought I was in love. I’ve been MGTOW for almost ten years now and didn’t even know it was a thing until about 7 months ago. OP you are a scholar and a savior to every young man that reads and digests this.
OwenWentFullMGTOW 2y ago
Thank you. You are very kind.
My own experience was very informative and is obviously the basic foundation of my post.
But when I started looking around, I noticed that a lot of men who dated single moms had experiences very similar to mine. The steps might've been in a different order or a few details might've been adjusted depending on the situation.
But a certain pattern of behavior still emerged that I don't think gets talked about much in pro-male spaces. So, hopefully my longwinded post up there will help at least one man escape a bad situation.
almostgraduatingsoon 2y ago
TOO LONG DIDNT READ: JUST DONT DATE SINGLE MOMS
CriticalEscapeBike 2y ago
That was remarkable (so was the tl;dr).
Buttchugginggasoline 2y ago
daddy-baiter experience.
Vikingbeard1 2y ago
I know "constructive criticism" on the internet is usually viewed with distrust, but I'm going to give mine; while I respect the desire to lay things out as rules, the result is the exact opposite of your goal. Personal stories, actual examples, with details and some basic narrative structure, however primitive, weaves a tale for any remotely open-minded person to learn from, with the universally understood foundation that no one experiences everything. But making absolutist claims and rules about what ALL women, or ALL single-mothers, or whatever, are doing, or how this and that are ALWAYS a nefarious, just looks like, well, the exact kind of supposedly woman-hating muh soggy knees we're always accused of. Especially when it's exactly the kind of behavior we want; I get that people can be manipulative, I do, but saying "If she's not a shrieking fucking banshee, then look out! She's tricking you!" logically means ALL women are terrible--she's either openly terrible or secretly terrible, but that's it, there is no other option. It's not much different than a woman saying "If a man tries to turn you on, he's trying to get you alone to rape you, and if he doesn't, he's a limp-dicked loser who will probably rape you out of frustration." Now, I'm not making a moral judgement here; I don't care if you actually DO hate women (though I doubt it), I'm just saying that this kind of preaching quickly turns off anyone not in the choir. Horror stories get sympathy; enough of them begin to change people's worldviews; lists and hyperbole make people not in your camp roll their eyes and call you a kook or a zealot.
aayeshajan 2y ago
As someone not in the choir, absolutely 100%. The absolute terminology just totally breaks down the argument, with NO exceptions?! And exactly the there’s no winning for women in this scenario. So black and white, all women = scheming shrews.
Blackbarnabyjones 2y ago
Wha?
Itsjustnickg 2y ago
This needs to be in the side bar.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
It will be added to the recommended reading list in this sub shortly.
ArchDemonKerensky 2y ago
Definitely a good expansion and improvement.
wanttoseeboob 2y ago
I was scrolling this, looking for a TL;DR - saw a bit of the post while i was scrolling (before i actually saw your TL;DR) and realized that this needs to be read.
peguy2000 2y ago
Dude just make a post about narccistic women. Youre explaining basic narc behaviour and calling it daddy baiting
Most women will use love bombing to ensnare a poor sucker, devalue and abuse him and then discard
OwenWentFullMGTOW 2y ago
(A) No, I'm not and (B) I'm only doing what two separate mods have asked me to do.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Be the change you want to see in the world. He's done his part. Why don't you write that post?
peguy2000 2y ago
Ive done plenty on mgtow subs. Theyre gone now though
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Nothing is ever really "gone" from the internet. If you have archive links for your posts, share it here. If not, as u/Typo-Magashiv has pointed out, create a new post in trp forums and cross-post it from there. There is no censorship there and you do not need to worry about it being taken down by the site admins.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
That really sucks.
I'd like to tell you that if you redo them here, they'll always be here, but reddit has banned this sub once already by mistake.
Why not redo them at our alternate forum at https://www.forums.red/i/whereallthegoodmenare and then crosspost them here?
peguy2000 2y ago
Yeah good idea
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Well done with the expansion. Please copy this post and post it in the alt forums (link below) for backup.
https://www.forums.red/i/whereallthegoodmenare
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
Excellent post Owen. Thanks for putting this out there, and welcome to the club! (of sorts).
A gorgeous, and I mean MODEL gorgeous single mother once proposed to me.
Yes, read it again. This actually happened. We dated for like 3 months and she went in for the kill. It went something like this at dinner one fine evening:
Her: DD1, you are a good man
Me: Thanks. That's what they tell me.
Her: I love you. And I think we should get married.
Me: (choked on my drink). What?
Her: I know my heart and I know what I want. And I want to marry you.
Me: (Jesus Christmas, is this really happening rn? FML) Ahem. But we have only been dating for a few months. We hardly know each other yet.
Her: I know you DD1 and you are a good soul. (exact quote minus my real name)
Me: (knowing this relationship just ended right here and right now). You are an amazing woman. And I like you a lot. And I am sure you are going to find a really good guy to marry one day. But that man ain't me.
I will skip the other details as you can imagine the rest. We ended it SOON after that.
Funny side note - sex with her was...odd. It was like she opened her mouth and closed her eyes and sort of "let it happen". I had never experienced that before. She had huge beautiful teeth, but when no lips are involved in kissing, it felt like what I imagine kissing a skeleton might be like.
Odd note, I know, but very relevant to your post. It is a subtle detail that I wrote off as "bad kisser" Now I see it as "let me get this over with so this moron will wife me up and I can milk him for cash"
Keep up the good content brother. And good luck to you.
NoonTimeHoopsMVP 2y ago
It is amazing how much you can see once the blinders are off.
​
"I was blind but now I see."
CriticalEscapeBike 2y ago
I'm trying to figure out if you met my wife before we married, or after we divorced.
^((Either way...you made the right call).)
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
Well. I guess there's two of them out there then!
Good comment bro!
OwenWentFullMGTOW 2y ago
That was what I was wondering about too. For some gold-digging types, the idea of kissing their mark is almost distasteful. Makes me think that was her mentality.
FewActinomycetaceae0 2y ago
alot of modern women especially gen alpha and zoomer will do everything and anything under the sun,, but think kissing goes to far and is too intimate, should be reserved for relationships
Marko_From_Tropoja_ 2y ago
You can tell a lot about how a woman feels about you during simple things like kissing. Also I have completely crossed off single mother’s from my list of being considered for even casual dating a couple years ago. Casually dated a couple and was an fwb with one in the past. Both I casually dated started bringing up the “future” talks pretty quickly and the last one I dated would just “drop by my place” unannounced after I started breaking contact with her. Had to lay it out pretty quickly. This is also why I am hesitant to bring certain women to my place anymore. The fwb only worked bc she was an ex from my past who was now a single mom and the only thing we had together was good sexual chemistry, even when we dated in the past. So we knew exactly what we were together. But agreed on everything else and being 34 I have tried to warn younger friends and family about the trap many times. Great post.
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
It reminds me of some movie I saw once - don't ask me which one - and a prostitute said to another something like: "never kiss a John. That's too intimate"
liberalbutnotcrazy 2y ago
It’s from Pretty Woman.
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
Bingo! That's the one.
(I realize that my comment made it sound like I have seen a TON of prostitution movies, but could not remember which one it was! lol. Maybe, but I should have remembered this one!)
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
Have you not?
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
Well.
See.
Um.
Fuck.
No comment.
[deleted] 2y ago
[removed]
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Please do not link to other subs.
leopmarques 2y ago
Man, thanks for this great content.
Jihocech_Honza 2y ago
Stepchildren are always stress and drama. Mostly it is not worth it.
I think there are only two exceptions, when the relationship with a single mother can work. Both man and woman have their own children before (Step by step sitcom) or you know the woman for a very long time before you start dating.
One-Move 2y ago
No, i am a single dad and don’t touch single mom’s
Pic889 2y ago
Whaaa? What is it with child-ladden individuals wanting to attach themselves to child-free individuals? In general, child-free people are child-free because they want to live their best life without having to care for a child. They most likely want to form a relationship with someone who shares that lifestyle and not stay at the booty call/f***boy stage forever. If you have a child to care for, I 'd suggest you find someone who also shares that obligation, so you two will at least share a common lifestyle.
One-Move 2y ago
I want a childless woman to have another child with (i exclude “has no kids and does not want them”) my kids are out of the house in 2 years. The age range I am looking at little chad is 2-5 and I am not spending 16 year raising and paying for another mans child.
(My kids don’t cock block me) You obviously never dated a single mom, being a step dad is responsibility without authority. I have offered a single mom, who was very insistent a contract, (she will give me the right to discipline her child anyway anytime and as long as i want and she will just watch) “but but my little jaden does not need that”
Pic889 2y ago
And what's in it for the woman? If she wants children, she can date a child-free man who wants a kid, and give him one. That way, she and the man can devote their money and energy to her children exclusively (instead of her children having to share resources with another woman's children, even for 1 year) and without her having to deal with babby-momma drama coming from the other woman.
Also, responsibility doesn't stop after 18 years. You still have to care about your children's college studies, career, personal issues etc long after they've turned 18, even in a distant way. Why would a woman want you doing that for another woman's children when you could be doing it exclusively for hers?
Maybe date a single mom raising children about the same age as yours, and each one raises their own children. That way, you both bring the same amount of baggage, so the relationship is equal.
One-Move 2y ago
100 years ago her children where an asset to the man, now they are cost and liability
Pic889 2y ago
And they are also a huge energy drain for the man and for the woman. Which is why I find the desire to date a child-free woman weird if you are a single man. No woman wants her children sharing paternal resources with some other woman's children and/or having to spend her energy caring for another woman's children (even dealing with babby-momma drama from the other woman's side or having to care about the other woman's children falling behind on their school grades/college studies is a form of energy depletion). I mean, what's in it for her?
Frame is also important here: As a child-free individual dating a child-ladden person, you are not building a new life with that other person, you are entering their pre-existing life as an extra. Nobody wants that, they want a "greenfield" area (see above for why).
One-Move 2y ago
Did you read, that my kids are out of my house in 2 years?
Pic889 2y ago
Assuming the woman wants children, why should she care for some other woman's children for 2 years? Or have to watch you deplete your energy caring for some other woman's children for 2 years in a way that doesn't benefit her, when a child-free man would be spending all his energy into dating her or having children with her?
Even when the other woman's children are out of the house, you still have to care about their college studies, careers etc and she also has to watch you re-unite with your old woman during family gatherings (which means your ex will never truly be in the past as far as she is concerned).
She can date a child-free man and have none of that.
One-Move 2y ago
Because I have proven to be a good father, the same as preselection, “other women want him, he is more attractive” I have a wide choice
Pic889 2y ago
Lol, the women this sub makes fun use the same hamster wheel: "The fact I was able to bag an attractive man for long enough to become pregnant means that I am a prize. I have also proven myself to be a good parent, so the fact I am a single parent is in-fact value-add and not baggage/liability/resource drain that doesn't benefit the other party in any way."
Also, preselection works when you demonstrate your ability to keep (please and provide for) a woman, so it's not relevant here. It only works when there is a happy (that is, content) woman currently by your side. Or maybe a woman speaking positively about you.
Date someone with similar baggage as you. As a man, an equal relationship is the best you can hope for.
One-Move 2y ago
Just for my curiosity how old are you, male or female?
Pic889 2y ago
Early 30s male.
One-Move 2y ago
Pic889 2y ago
Again, that's the same rationalization hamster most women that this sub makes fun of use: Thinking they get points for past experience. In reality, people prefer a baggage-free life partner to build a brand new life together. That means no energy spent on someone else's kids by either party, no time spent in family gatherings with a family which is not their family and where their partner gets to meet their ex again (which will never be truly their ex, aka fully in the past).
Sorry for the truth-hammer, but if you go in with unrealistic requirements, you are setting yourself up for being strip-mined by some gold-digger and dumped, much like the women in this sub set themselves up for quick pump and dumps by PUAs.
If you can find a child-free woman, it will be a sheer stroke of luck, like the women of this sub finding their price charming. So, proceed with caution instead of the "I don't date single-moms" mentality.
One-Move 2y ago
Girl I have several single child less late 20 in the waiting line
One-Move 2y ago
Also past experience on the CC is not the same
againstthe-grain 2y ago
Holy shit the accuracy of this post. Gents, listen up. This post is 100% correct and OP did his homework.
Daddy baiters definitely send way more nudes than childless women. I’ve had single moms send me vids of them banging their assholes with dildos...on the first day we matched on tinder!! Daddy baiters are quick to put out and yes, they will most certainly seek feedback on their explicit videos.
Yup, they fall in love fast. Went on a date with a single mom once and the first and only date, her kids was saying “bye daddy” as I was leaving. I never spoke to her again.
Sex. Oh it crazy and phenomenal! Nobody bangs like a single mom. They do any and everything. But it is definitely a trap! Sex stops like a car and a brick wall once you get serious.
They really do want marriage so fast. I would say 90% of single moms I actually dated, talked about marriage in the first week. Those crazies would be sending me ring pictures within 7 days of meeting!
About the family loving you...I’ve never felt more loved than by the single mom’s family. Truly amazing that random strangers can be so supportive of marriage for their daughter/ sister/ friend to a random internet stranger she met just last week
I met a single mom last year and of course she immediately let me hit it. She had a baby so she left the baby in the bedroom so she could ride me on the couch. She kept begging me to bust inside her and that afterwards I could just go get her a plan B pill. So naturally I gave her the full load. And what came next? Surprise surprise she says “well don’t worry about the plan B. I’m probably not pregnant. Besides, I’m against that sorta thing anyways”. Now listen gents, this wasn’t my first rodeo. I’ve been burnt by the fire. Hell I was forged in the fire. You really think I’d negligent discharge my firearm in her child support maker? Nope. They’re ain’t no fish in my stream. I’ve been snipped, clamp and cauterized. There’s no firing pin in this rifle. 3 months later she calls to tell me she’s pregnant. I laugh as I tell her my secret. She later admits the baby is another guys baby but she just liked me better and wanted me to raise it. Moral of the story is never trust women and get your balls clipped.
NoonTimeHoopsMVP 2y ago
That "bye daddy" story is awful. Those poor kids deserve better.
People are just evil.
Impressive-Cricket-8 Endorsed 2y ago
Can I hear an amen?
[deleted] 2y ago
How to avoid this problem.
Step 1) don't date single moms
twunting 2y ago
That simply is the solution.
umockdev 2y ago
But it's only half the truth. Avoiding single mothers is a good rule, but also watch out for post-wall women with baby rabies. They will display similar behaviors like the ones described in the post and will try to get pregnant 'by accident'. Always be in control of your birth control.
DonLeMiester35 2y ago
If ya know ya dont want kids...get a vasectomy....takes away all risk...just make sure ya go get semen tests to make sure yer tank is empty.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
A bit of further info: birth control pills work by altering her body's hormones and fooling it into thinking she's already pregnant. This takes a bit of time to take effect when she first starts, as it builds up in her system. Similarly, when she goes off them, it takes at least a few days for her body's hormones to revert to normal.
There's no "oops, I forgot to take it that day, tee-hee!". If she's pregnant, she did it on purpose.
To that end: I recommend seizing control of your own destiny. Yes, sex feels way better without a condom. But it's not worth a lifetime of being tied to someone who would deceive you in this way.
Additional related reading: Professional Mothers by Rollo Tomassi in which he expands on his 5th Iron Rule:
While Rollo's writing is about any woman looking to baby-trap you rather than just single moms, it's related and helpful.
Gaddammitkyle 2y ago
Why is Tomassi trying to claim something people have been practicing for thousands of years as one of his own Rules?
xynthor 2y ago
Also, as a rule that "oopsie" rarely happens in the early stage (=a few months in) of a relationship.
It's usually used at the "yeah, we're good together, but I don't think it's going anywhere" stage.
giustiziasicoddere 2y ago
You can do it without parachute - just, make sure you ...land in the open ;)
vacuumballoon 2y ago
Like just snip yourself at that point dude.
Like really I don’t get it.
SeedsOfDoubt 2y ago
I think the future of birth control for men is to freeze your sperm and get snipped. I'm too old to want kids at this point so I just got the snip. Cheapest piece of mind you can ever buy yourself.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
No way. She can still gather up the baby batter and insert it.
Boss4life12 2y ago
Or go through the back door....
anykah_badu 2y ago
It's not very well known and they are a bit more expensive but try the femidom or female condom. It's said to feel a lot more like the bare thing. Basically it's bigger, and inserted into the woman. Try different brands, those that come with more lube tend to be best
IMO unless you want a kid with someone it is wise to always double up. Condoms can rip and birth control fail, even without foul play. Did you know just some diarrhea can render birth control pills ineffective?
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
I've been married since 2005, and monogamous since late 2004. I haven't needed or worn anything of the sort in a very long time. However, those are good bits of info for the single people reading this.
I take it that you meant "diarrhea pills" such as Imodium? But no, I did not know that. I hope to God that's something the doctors and pharmacists are informing any women who are taking birth control.
anykah_badu 2y ago
No, just having the shits for longer than a day can mean the birth control is no longer absorbed into your body in sufficient quantities. Other medications can fuck with that as well https://www.simplehealth.com/blog/which-medications-interact-with-birth-control
I think people risk a lot more than they know because they are not informed
Honestly maybe you shouldn't sleep with a stranger without a condom ever. Sure it can go well for a while but maybe you just got lucky there, or as a guy you may have never learned of the consequences
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
Oh, wow.
Good info.
anykah_badu 2y ago
It actually goes on: instead of 99% effective, birth control pills are only 91-93% effective in "typical use". This is not just because of other medication and gut issues, you gotta take those combination pills every day at the exact same time. This is why they are at only 91%, while the minipill is at 93% (has to be taken every day but you have a few hours +/-).
Sure after being on birth control for years, it can take some women a long time to be able to conceive again, but others forget that shit once, or take it too late, and BOOM they're pregnant
You really can't look at a woman and determine how her body will react
Therefore I would always double up with either external/male or internal/female condoms, and keep the sluttiness to a minimum. Or choose more robust methods with your partner that are always at 99% at least. Or get a fertility test, get sterilised etc.
MutedLawyer9366 2y ago
Couldn't this apply to mommy baiting as well? Single fathers that deliberately go for young women to step in as the role of mommy to their kid?
plz_say_sike 2y ago
Not really because many of the points OP listed such as long bombing/frequent sex are things majority of men do not get on the regular, unlike the majority of women who can easily find a ONS and are constantly praised on social media. Obviously there may be some single fathers that try to do the same but I doubt they are as common or as successful as single moms.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
A) this is a sub for men and by men. None of us (ok, almost none of us, there are a few bi and homo men here) are trying to date, fuck, or marry men. We are thus not concerned with what men do or might do. Women are welcome here as long as they follow the rules and stay on topic. "But men do it too!" is attempting to debate (badly) and derailing the discussion.
B) as /u/plz_say_sike already pointed out, the traps single moms set for men would have to be different, because men and women are different and want different things. If you're a woman who is concerned with a single dad trying to "mommy trap" you (if that's even a real thing), there are plenty of forums where women discuss the issues they face when dating. Take those concerns to one of those forums.
If you decide to move along, be wise and do well so that you don't end up like the women featured on our main sub, /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen. If you decide to stick around, be sure to read the rules on our sidebar.
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Well said.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
I'm just surprised I beat you to it
moorekom Mod 2y ago
Ha.