I loved this line from a, Curb Your Enthusiasm episode and sums up my current quandary perfectly.
TL:DR, NEVER GET MARRIED TO A WESTERN GIRL!!!
About 4 years ago some investments skyrocketed and our small family of me, my wife and 2 kids were doing well, I bought her the house she wanted, I worked while she stayed home (even with both kids in daycare 7 hours a day) and she spent as much money as she wanted. But after 1 year she wanted to move again, this time closer to her parents who lived two hours away. At first she told me I could commute (THE TWO HOURS), then she had the idea that we should buy a second home near her parents where she would live with the kids and I could come visit on the weekends. (Clearly she had gone insane).
When I finally flatly refused to keep going along with the insanity and said no, I would not buy another home, one day while I was at work she took the kids, filled a false police report saying I "violently shoved my son", got a lawyer, filed for divorce, filed a restraining order and took ALL the cash we had.
Family court has been hell. EVERYTHING she has filed at this point was dropped or thrown out, after THREE YEARS the judge threw out her whole case but she just started all over again, made the same accusations (then dropped them) and its back to waiting. So far its cost me $150,000 in lawyers fees and there is no sign of it ending.
This is ALL because the court system is biased and will default to what the mother is saying while ignoring the Dad.
My take after all this, Western Women are the most privileged class of humans in the history of the world but that power is derived from being or playing the victim. In realms where women have the upper hand now (education, most work environments, family court, etc...) AND they continue to play the victim it means all hell breaks loose.
We now have an epidemic of children being raised in fatherless homes, because this is what women think. Most women think that a father is either unnecessary or can be replaced with another man, this is the problem, the solution is to NEVER marry a western women until the laws are fixed.
CactusParty575 2y ago
Western women will go after your money, abuse & take advantage of you. Lie to you. Wanted to be bowed down to like queens and make men inferior. The very definition of Satanism is doing ANY & ALL THINGS TO ANYONE. Western women are becoming more Satanic by the day.
ForeignSmell 2y ago
You got a timeline of that event ?
Labyrinth2_0 2y ago
Some dude left the country after being forced to pay child support to Dubai and he’s been happy ever since his ex wife never got a cent off of him ever again
karluvonne 2y ago
It is so simple men. Stop dealing with the modern female at all. They no longer have any respect for us so why do you keep playing the game? They are definitely not worth marriage anymore.
againstthe-grain 2y ago
I swear to god I don’t remember posting this...oh wait..I didn’t and yet our stories are one and the same lol. But seriously yes, men are screwed by default in family courts. My kids only see me 4 days a month because I’m a man. My horror story spans almost a decade. Tens of thousands spent in family courts just fighting to be a dad to my kids. This is any man that’s been to family courts. I’d rather face God for my judgement than stand before a judge. But here’s some advice for the other men reading this
OP says not to get married. I disagree. When kids are involved, you WANT to be married. You think married fathers get fucked hard in family courts? You ain’t seen nothing until an unmarried father goes to court. Seriously, if you knock a woman up, marry her! You’ll get more rights to your kids. If you have major assets, transfer your asset to an offshore trust fund until the hearings are all over. Unmarried men have no rights to their children by default. It must be WON in court
OP says avoid western women. I disagree. This isn’t a western only problem. It’s a first world nation problem. Follow the fathers rights movement online or Facebook. This is happening in nations all over the world. The Middle East seems to be the only safe place for a man to be a father.
So you wanna have kids? Well here’s how you safely do it (maybe safe). It’s crazy and will cost a lot but when you get to see your kids every day, you won’t care how much you paid. You find an egg donor and have that baby grown in a tube. I shit you not, that’s the only safe way. wHy NoT a SuRrOgAtE? Well simple, a surrogate mother can sue you for custody and child support. Happens all the time. In this day and age no man is safe having a kid. Love is a status symbol, not an institution anymore. When she feels that you aren’t increasing her status, you’ll be screwed. I think the tube baby is the only legit way you can be a dad
Oh and unrelated but fun fact. You have NO say in your wife getting an abortion. She can kill or keep your kid. But luckily you can get a vasectomy right? Hahaha nope! Your doctor must have your wife’s permission and if she says no then too bad. Make that pull out game strong
No_Valuable827 2y ago
Family courts are biased to protect women and children by design. A hundred years ago this was important. Family roles were pretty consistent: mothers cared for children, husbands were bread winners, and women and children dependent. Society has continually evolved but courts have been resistant to change. Judges know that families are now two-income based and that parents tend to share in parental responsibilities, but they are slow to update their custodial and alimony programs. Why? Here are my thoughts.
polishknightusa 2y ago
I knew someone who passed away, sadly, who was a historian on these matters. How family courts evolved and the reasoning behind them is no doubt fascinating and counter productive.
Prior to 1st wave feminism, there was no no-fault (sorry about the double negative) divorce and if the woman was at fault, her settlement options were limited as compared to today. Islam, for example, has custody of young children go to the mother but older children would go with the father. Anglo chivalry tends to favor women at all times, even when it doesn't make sense and this is reflected in the modern culture or "white knights". Sometimes male judges are just as bad as the female ones. Keep in mind that like appoints like so judges and politicians that are sexist against men tend to appoint like minded thinkers hence the cultural momentum.
Just keep in mind that what we perceive as to the reasoning behind these laws may be totally different than what we think just as some of the zany things we see in modern culture today are incongruent with how most people live.
Ironically, I think that the misguided conservative opposition to gay marriage (while they had better fish to fry that they neglected) led to courts needing to see things more egalitarian because lesbians fighting over kids forced judges and laws to see things more neutrally. "Give the child and goodies to the woman" doesn't apply when they're both women or men.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Please, don't make this mistake.
It's never important to replace one problem with another.
againstthe-grain 2y ago
Actually it’s because of title IV-D incentives. States are literally paid to assign children to one parent for child support. Doesn’t matter which parent has custody as long as child support is assigned, then the state is getting paid. Your theories just explain why the woman always gets the kids, which you’re right about. It’s a corrupt system from the top down
RuskinBondFan 2y ago
Explain more.
limpingrobot 2y ago
What a cluster. I really want children and I don't see a path forward. It's starting to sound like even a non-Western woman is a path to misery.
WhereProgressIsMade 2y ago
There’s surrogacy. Just make sure you get an egg donor who is not the surrogate.
Goldmansachs3030 2y ago
They say MGTOW for a reason. And it is all over the world, no matter what world classification you use. Never marry a woman, western women have turned all women into demons.
War-rior314 2y ago
The only you got fucked is because you were married and made the most money. This is why you never EVER marry a woman. It's over. Accept reality for it is or get fucked in a never ending nightmare thru the court system, men. This man is a clear reason why you never marry, ever. All of you have been warned.
mistralol 2y ago
Its actually getting to the point where its better for men not to interact with the system. Yeah you lose your kids but since your going to lose the kids anyway or get such a raw unpracticle deal which doesn't work in reality you would be better saving the money that would be spent and they giving it to the kids for something like their collage education / first house / car anything.... when they come seek you out later in life (they normally do)
againstthe-grain 2y ago
Easier said than done. Once you see your kid born, you realize you’d fight until your last breath to be a dad. I was making $13 an hour and was offered a 6 figure salary overseas. Money would have solved all my financial woes. But money wouldn’t buy memories and it wouldn’t give my kids a real father figure. I turned it down (seriously was depressed for weeks afterwards). Later I was offered a chance to rejoin active duty (which I only left because of my ex wife). That was my dream. I turned it down. That hurt for years, but a few days after turning it all down, I took my little girl to watch her first movie ever. And let me tell you, those memories are worth more than any dream job I could have. You can always make more money but you can’t make up for lost time
limpingrobot 2y ago
In my imaginary world, if a husband took a six figure job overseas, the wife and kid would go with him.
againstthe-grain 2y ago
But in real life the wife would never move away from her mommy and daddy. Ask me how I know....
Elitesandbaninis 2y ago
What was she like before she went batshit? Were there red flags?
Slight_Stroke 2y ago
She was normal, she was better than normal she was great, I loved her. We dated since highschool and waited till we were 30 to get married.
I can say 100% that it was after our second kid she went insane. People talk about "baby brain" like it is a joke but its not. After the second kid she just never bounced back, she became very slow mentally and just mean spirited about everything.
I-am-the-lul 1y ago
"Baby brain" sounds like a kind of dementia.
Snoid_ 2y ago
The crazy thing is, for all of the bellyaching about "patriarchy," it is mostly men who run family courts, or passed the laws that these "oppressed" women use to their advantage.
perryurban 1y ago
This is totally incorrect IMO.
Extreme feminism infiltrated the Family Law system decades ago, in fact, had a major hand in it's creation in many countries. They are the judges, the most vocal lobbyists, the social workers and especially the family lawyers advising women how to exploit men to their advantage whilst transferring the family wealth to themselves.
OhBarnacles_007 2y ago
It's projection.
They know it's not men who are trash it's them. They know they aren't the fairer gender. They know they are sluts. They know shame keeps them on place. They know they sre gold diggers.
Many men see it but women gas light them to believe otherwise. They are excellent manipulators. They will wipe your bank account and make you believe it was out of love. They will cheat and make guys feel as if it'd their fault.
But women's actions ever lie. Look at how they act. They chase money, brand names, attention, and validation. They fuck around, have no values or morals. They lie to weapons the legal system against men. They lie to their own kids to turn them.
This is the decline boys. We are on the slope down.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Yes, but when did everything shift towards pandering to women?
When women were given the vote and immediately became the majority of the electorate.
People like to complain about western men being pussies. But if you were that judge and you stepped out of line, what do you think would happen to you?
This is in addition to the natural out group bias that men have towards women....
whyserenity 2y ago
Society has always been pro women from the very beginning. This is what happens when society gives women all the power and pretends we are still treating women like children.
Slight_Stroke 2y ago
Its funny how we immediately forget that women have ALWAYS gotten more out of being with and around men than if they were not. Women have always had a choice to go it on their own, just as any man does. The men going their own way movement is huge but there is no equivalent for women. Stuff like r/FDS is 99% about how to take EVEN MORE advantage of men, not figure things out for themselves.
polishknightusa 2y ago
I find the FDS forum fascinating. It's like watching a meeting of cats to determine how they will order around humans.
For the most part, women who are there are wasting their time. They get "you go girl!" support and told to "never lower their standards" but there's little actual useful advise. Most of it is feminist rants against men, contradictory claims ("MOST men are losers!" and "30 can't be the wall because there's still plenty of HVM out there! Keep looking!!!") They say that their FDS strategy will help them find an "HVM" to take care of them the way a Queen deserves but... most of the advise is about how to live on their own and "level up" because, well, there may not be a "HVM" who meets their "standards".
I'd liken it to an incel support group: They rationalize that they are reasonable and the system is unfair (not saying that's untrue for incels) AND advise them how to deal with their future life as incels/inspins. Not that this is a bad thing, necessarily, but it's not a "dating" strategy so much as an acceptance strategy.
Their advise is basically "The Rules" rehashed: Dump a "scrote" if he doesn't pay for dinner, if he pushes for sex "too early", and demand only wealthy, attractive men. There's some cheap tricks such as offering to pay for dinner and seeing if he's "cheap" if he accepts it and so on. Back 30 years ago, I couldn't figure out what was going on (took a good year on my own) but now, this advise seems so quaint and outdated.
On the contrary, an FDS adherent is probably the easiest to trick: She's a golddigger entitlement queen so one need not feel sorry for her if you have sex and leave her. You trick her into bed by showing off your assets and dropping clues that other women were only interested in money but she seems so different and better. As she's salivating over cashing in, make a romantic move and if she pulls out the FDS handbook, say it's ok and don't whine but just back off politely and act "busy". Say "I thought there might be a connection but maybe I was wrong. Maybe you don't like me." Pretend to be a naive swimmer in FDS shark water.
Then a month after sleeping with her, pretend you have issues at work and ask her to help you out financially. She'll leave on her own without getting angry and seeking revenge.
DonLeMiester35 2y ago
Some men wouldn't be able go on after losing all of that....Some would become Jaded Demons after what your ex has done...Kudos for keepign your cool but I wouldn't have looked at ya different if ya didnt...Kudos anyway.
Slight_Stroke 2y ago
Suicide goes buy SIX TIMES for men going through divorce but not for women.
SirLoose12 2y ago
We've all been there. Stay strong, brother.
Men don't red pill men; women red pill men.
Obnoxiousjimmyjames 2y ago
Just don’t get married. Don’t even move in together until at least a year or two without any red flags.
It’s just not worth it.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
The corrupt system that enables her tyrannical rampages, will still be around after a year or two....
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
That's still not long enough.
My wife and I were married for 6 years before she started changing for the worse.
Were mostly back on track now thanks to the Red Pill and hormone therapy for her, but there were a few years of hell, and I still have one foot out the door just in case.
Slight_Stroke 2y ago
My wife changed after out second kid. People kept calling it "baby brain," then, "postpartum" but she never got better. She got VERY slow and VERY argumentative. Just mean for no reason.
People joke about Baby Brain but its not fucking funny. My wife totally changed for the worse and never went back to the woman I fell in love with, just changed into a mean nasty person.
[deleted] 2y ago
She got what she wanted from you, now you're just a burden.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Sometimes it takes that long to feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel fully secure in the relationSHIT
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
AKA, way too secure.
WhereProgressIsMade 2y ago
Can I ask about the hormone therapy? Was it for low libido? My wife’s hormones seem out of whack. I’m guessing it’s due to her hysterectomy and losing an ovary. I’ve tried searching a bunch but all I’ve been able to find is along the lines of, yes that can happen. It seems like I need to go with her to see her gynecologist.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
Low libido and sudden weight gain despite no changes in diet or exercise routine.
We had to try several doctors before we found one willing to help, and even this one is only mediocre at best.
This is one of the few times that wahmyns' complaining has a lot of merit. Their health isn't taken seriously enough by doctors, even female ones.
Recommended book: "Breakthrough" by Suzanne Somers (yes, the actress). It's surprisingly well-researched.
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Because they bitch and moan about absolutely everything.
Eventually, even the doctors are like, yeye lady...
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
That's exactly why I didn't believe her at first!
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
The wymynz who cried struggle snuggle.
Typo-MAGAshiv Mod 2y ago
The wahmyns who cried "wage gap!".
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Economics is a tool of the patriarchy!!!
ijustdontcare74 2y ago
To this sort of woman the OP describes, you as a male are nothing more than an ATM. You are also only a sperm donor to secure resources from. Those children are there to extract money out of you and she will think nothing of the emotional damage it does to them to not see their father, only how much she can get the courts to squeeze your balls and your wallet.
The only way you can play this game is not to play at all. Never get married, never co-habitate and if possible don't have children with a spoiled western woman. I know it's tough if you want children but I think it's increasingly a difficult choice to justify knowing the carnage that can happen. I was lucky in that my ex, even if she is crazy and cheated on me, is not a horrible person and would never isolate the kids from me. However I fully realise I got lucky here...it could have been so much worse for me.
denvercaniac 2y ago
Far too common these days sadly.
Duchat 2y ago
Chivalry is mostly about early knights, who were basically thugs, a well armed and armored horseman, developing a sense or honor and morality in warfare. The "romantic and chivalrous" knight was a fairy tale even when knights were still around. Soldiers then are like soldiers now; more like Frank Castle the Punisher, a deadly soldier with a code of honor.
Traksimuss 2y ago
Well, they are extremely whitewashed by history. Most of them were extremely poor and set up "toll booths" near their place of living. So you would be riding your horse, and toothless man with his posse jumps out of the woods and demands money for "keeping woods safe".
[deleted] 2y ago
[deleted]
Slight_Stroke 2y ago
Exactly. I have been "waiting" for over three years now and there is no end in sight and nothing I can do.
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
You got this wrong my friend.
Do not get married regardless of the laws. It is a trap for the average man. If you have not learned this by now, you are doomed to repeat this.
Impressive-Cricket-8 Endorsed 2y ago
I'd say it depends. Here in Brazil, there is such a thing (at least for now) as a marriage with total separation of assets - it doesn't matter whether you went bankrupt or won the lotto, what's yours is yours and what's hers is hers. On the other hand, common law marriages are also a thing (here they're called something like stable union), and while a couple could decide to forgo the marriage and willfully constitute said union - opting for a total separation of assets, also available for this kind of commitment -, the rule for both marriage and common law marriage is sharing everything after the union is established.
And the criteria for a common law marriage? There once were some actual requisites, but today it's pretty much "convince the judge". So, it may very well be a better idea to get married (with a prenup opting for a total separation of assets) than to just live together for too long.
polishknightusa 2y ago
One option is to do what the wealthy people do and set up trusts. They don't own their own house, for example. You won't find Bill Gates' name on the property deed of his Washington mansion. It will be some business trust. What's great is that when he wants to transfer it to his children, he avoids the taxes that many normies face by leaving stuff in their own name.
Find a relative you absolutely trust with you life, and make them executor of your trust and put everything in that trust and you get an "allowance" from him or simply just live off the money you don't transfer to the trust. So the money for groceries, electricity, and mobile phone bills would be paid by you (good luck with her seizing those!) and the rest is owned by the trust. You are a pauper on paper.
If your brother controls the trust, and co-mingles HIS assets in them, that makes it even more difficult for a family court judge to pry into them. If anything, it could take the purview and venue out of his scope meaning he might hesitate to go there.
Note: I'm not an attorney but I'm considering a business trust for my assets in a few years if only to help my daughter later when I pass on to avoid any complications. It also helps to maintain control when I retire outside of the country.
DeeplyDisturbed1 2y ago
I should have acknowledged that different countries have different rules and dynamics. My comments are only aimed at Americans. Thanks for pointing this out.
No matter where I live, marriage will never appeal to me again. The incentives it sets up just don't work for me. It gives both partners license to act like asshats. With a girlfriend you can just split for a weekend until she comes over to blow you. In a marriage, you are stuck.
Impressive-Cricket-8 Endorsed 2y ago
I get your point. I just wanted to add if you're getting too serious, talk to a lawyer to see how covered you are. Nowadays, you can never be too careful.
limpingrobot 2y ago
Are you saying that if the husband buys a lottery ticket and wins, that the winnings are his alone? I would be very surprised if that's accurate. Or do you mean before marriage?
Impressive-Cricket-8 Endorsed 2y ago
That's pretty much it. While I don't practice family law (and maybe some rulings are made to circumvent the law, I wouldn't be surprised), the essence of total separations of assets is, in fact, total separation.
Edit: as for alimony, I'm not really sure; but it could be covered in the prenup (I'd actually advise towards that, since it'd be harder to argue that the wife would be left forlon).
polishknightusa 2y ago
Remember when Don Jr. got divorced? He did a truly alpha (omega?) move: His ex-wife griped that she was divorcing him because he was CHEAP.
And what does alimony rely upon? Sacrifice (giving up career) or "the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed". Such a justification punishes men who lavish their wives with presents and goodies. It's hilarious when the opposite occurs.
Overkillengine 2y ago
Anyone want to take bets on whom was the primary earner? It's funny how often the venn diagram for "not the primary earner" and "not the one practicing fiscal responsibility" tend to be near perfect overlaps.
polishknightusa 2y ago
For fun, looked up Don's ex wife and found this about their marriage:
"A jeweler at the Short Hills mall in New Jersey gave them a free engagement ring in exchange for a photographed proposal."
My wife would be TOTALLY on board with that.
Overkillengine 2y ago
A free ring is a free ring! Yeah a woman objecting to that is a huge red flag for both materialism and lack of fiscal responsibility. Those things aren't cheap and money saved can become money invested.
polishknightusa 2y ago
Hehehe. I recall a dating program where a woman sneered about her boyfriend using COUPONS on dinner dates. She didn't just want the 'free meal' but the spectacle of the man spending money on her (and leaving a large tip).
I, on the other hand, for 35 years in the few cases I paid for dinner dates, split large entrees with the woman and sat next to her. No "doggie bag" leftovers, it was "cozy" and intimate, and she needn't "steal" off my plate (because, well, "one" plate.)
My sister was disgusted. Just goes to show she cared more about "team woman" than me.
one_of_the_sane_ones 2y ago
Why cant ppl stay single? Why do you need to be in a romantic relationship?
[deleted] 2y ago
[removed]
loneliness-inc Mod 2y ago
Your comment is unhelpful.
Removed.
thewhiskey_zulu 2y ago
As a guys who's never been married, I'll never marry any of them! I like my money and peace of mind.
Slight_Stroke 2y ago
Its the legal system that is fucked. Get an air tight pre-nup and know that the second you do get married they are looking for their next mark.
dardy_sing 2y ago
Air tight prenup you say?
attongirdeaux 2y ago
I too like to buy Charmin the 4-ply kind for wiping my ass. A prenup is really expensive toilet paper. I work in finance, I literally manage assets of people who are worth more than you can imagine - these people have entire law firms dedicated to defending family wealth and I have never seen a prenup hold up in US court. NOT ONCE.