Disclaimer: I did not write this. The man that did posted it in r/MGTOW and subsequently deleted it after a few days. I felt his well articulated insight was genuine and provides a somewhat lesser known understanding of how women approach the more attractive males in society and why even those men are giving up on relationships all together.
Former Chad here. I was lucky enough to learn these harsh truths when I was still a young man. The hordes of women who were throwing themselves at me when I was Mr Popular were the same chicks who sneered at me a few years later once the game changed and I lost much of my status. None of the chicks I was banging left right and center had any interest in me as a person. They were in love with my looks and popularity and wanted to be with me to raise their own social status by association. Women love nothing more than being that chick with the hottest guy around on her arm so she can rub it in the face of every other bitch.
This is something that most men don't understand. Women are no more interested in men as people than men are in women. Men want women for sex. Without the sex men have no interest. Young women want men for status and older women want men for status and resources. Without these women have no interest. The main reason women with their own money still want to get married in 2018 is because marriage still gives women a higher social status among other women. It's all about being better than the next bitch. Men are just tools to achieve this. The beta buxs dynamic is the more obvious and familiar to most men who've never been chads. No need to elaborate on that. There are some misconceptions about the chad dynamic that need rectifying.
Firstly, as an apex chad you don't have to try to get women at all. I can't emphasize this enough. All this pua strategy stuff is for wannabes. When you're a true chad you'll know it because women come to you. You don't have to lift a finger. You don't even need to talk in some cases which is fine because women aren't interested in anything men have to say anyway. In fact the more you talk the more likely it is that they'll start to see you as a real person with faults and flaws and be turned off. Women don't want a real person. They want a fantasy. The less you say the easier it is for them to project their fantasy of who they perceive you to be or want you to be. This is why one word text message responses work far better than detailed replies. This is the real reason women love 'mysterious' men and why the number one female fantasy is being fucked by a stranger. Much of the sex I had as chad in nightclub toilets and other such places involved little to no talking. It was all eye contact and body language.
Drama and fighting with chad relationships is par for the course. Partly because women have a love hate relationship with power. They're attracted to powerful men but secretly hate being 'powerless' to resist this attraction. But it's mainly because the more she gets to know you the more she realizes you're just another flawed human being and not Mr Perfect fantasy man. This is when her attraction dies. A woman I was banging once walked in on me taking a dump. I'll never forget the look on her face. Pure horror and disgust. This was a chick who'd worshiped me. But accidentally seeing me on the toilet changed everything. It ruined her fantasy of me. Women hate reality because much of it is dirty, messy and ugly. That's why they filter, make up and airbrush everything from their bodies to their sexual histories.
Every woman wants to be the star of her own life movie. This is why they'll never be satisfied with anything. Even the biggest chads become boring after a while. An old flame once explained it to me very simply. She said women want what they can't have and as soon as they get it they don't want it anymore. When it's no longer a challenge to get chad's attention he's no longer interesting to them.
Happy stable relationships haven't been possible for a long time. Online dating and social media have only exposed this truth. Women are drowning in attention from thirsty men worldwide. Being the local jerk boy chad won't cut it anymore and anything more than casual sex is too much work anyway. The time and energy you need to expend on maintaining frame in a relationship is exhausting. Women will expect you to be 'on' the whole time and will constantly shit test for any hint of weakness. The moment she sees your flaws she'll be chasing the next chad.
Men are much better off not dealing with any of this bullshit. Focus on self improvement and go your own way.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
This man has explained the love hate phenomenon pretty clearly. I've seen this happen and was clueless for a long time and mistook for actual hate being masked as politeness or being socially nice. If she is nice to you and complains about you to other women, it is as this guy explains it.
comptejete 5y ago
Good post, though I feel many young men will still read it, think it makes sense, but fail to apply it to their own lives because they will not internalize it unless it's hammered in by experience.
If all men knew and accepted how quickly and easily panties drop for a man than women deem to be at the top of his game, they would spend zero time and effort pursuing them. Unfortunately, the vast majority will never experience this personally. Even if they've seen it second hand, they will be inclined to dismiss it as an anomaly or something that some girls do but that one girl they've put on a pedestal would never sink to.
where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
Blue pilled men aren't waking up to any of this unless they are inclined before hand. And the only way that happens if they have had to deal with it in some way. I've often talked with the younger generation about this and they look at me like a blind deer in headlights. And why should they look at me any differently? To them, their girlfriends treat them great and have a good relationship. They get let down easy and just chalk it up to "incompatibility" and other blue-pilled nonsense.
On your second point, I also agree that if there was a way to bring them into their ghost of the future for a night and see the error of chasing women young and how those women would give them up without even a flinch for a sweet taste of their ideal, fantasy man, they wouldn't mostly go MGTOW, mostly. Most guys I know are about average and ended up with women that would have preferred above average, but had no chance in hell to get. Those women were below them in the SMV and massively in the MMV, but they still went after them and chased them! They diminished their own value by going after someone far inferior to them. I have myself to blame for this also and if someone had told me the way this works, I don't honestly know if I would have listened or not. At least now, there is an outlet to understanding it and promulgating it so more men can wake up, though.
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where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
I sort of understand their sentiment regarding their shit tests. They need to make sure the best possible mate is going to stick around and be able to support them. They aren't exactly good with inductive reasoning, because of other biological imperatives, but that is what hinders their ability to properly decipher if they will have access to those resources or if they should be looking to branch swing.
I think when the population is small or in small isolated communities, this works out pretty well. They get the best and men are happy getting whatever couldn't get the best. Having the cap set on what they are seeking removes any hindrances they have to determine what the best is, because they either have it or they don't and if they don't they couldn't, so woman up, this is your life now.
TheYekke 5y ago
When your SMV rises way above hers you shut down shit tests by a deathstare. Or throw them out for a few days
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where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
Well, he presented the problem that most men outside of his 'stature' fail to realize, is that women are for the most part, insatiable. I get that not having any female attention at all is also on the other end of the spectrum, and that it is hard to measure oneself positively when the rest of society doesn't, but the premise is really, you aren't missing out on what society paints the picture of women being. You maybe missing genuine affection and intimacy, and for that I sympathize brother, but you are also not getting all the negative effects of being an average male, which is chasing unappreciative cunts not worth your time and being made out to be the bad guy everywhere you go, or in this case the alpha chad, being a simple fantasy for women and being required to continue elevating that status she sees in you or she gets tired real quick.
Keep on powering on, work on yourself and learn to be happy with the blessings you have, as few and far between as they seem from the normalcy of the what is actually a deception of modern relationships.
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where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
Brother, I know a man in his 50's, he is short, 5 and half, balding, huge fat gut. But you know what? Ever since I've known him, for decades now, he has had an arm piece. I mean, hot with big tits. You know what he does? He doesn't do cardio, he doesn't lift, he makes money. He doesn't give a fuck what people think. He supports his principles on his own merit, he doesn't give in to anybody, especially his hot-tail-of-the-month. He tells people what he is doing and does it. He enjoys his life and fuck anyone that tries to take that away from him. He is "the asshole" of the room. I'm not saying you need to be an asshole, but if you really think that lifestyle, of having different woman all the time, is something you want, you need to complete the picture for them. Facial surgery has come a long way to helping you, but you need everything else that comes along with it. He makes it work for him, he dominates women and fucks them good, that is his thing, being an ugly male chauvinist whore completely indifferent to the wants and needs of women or anyone but himself, and they love him for being that man to them. No matter how you are treated by other people for things you can not change, you are always the best person to find happiness in yourself and people will see that and want that and be attracted to that. Don't cope yourself into a corner, a cage of your own making, be someone that people look down upon or see as inferior, but change their minds by being someone better, and they will adore you for proving them wrong. The Chad in the story is just someone that has had it easier, has not had to work hard for that adoration, but life isn't fair, you aren't that person, you have to work hard, and be better than him and settle for less than him.
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where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
The point was that he enjoys himself and doesn't let anyone tell him how to act or what to do. He spins plates, yeah, that is his gig and I'm sure all his girlfriends think he is going to wife them up and he just dumps them after he has had his fun or it gets too serious.
Women either want your money and resources or to use your status to elevate themselves to men that have money or better status. That will never change. They need men to chase them so that they get an idea of where they stand in the cultural hierarchy. If men don't chase them, they give up despite being able to get a decent but unattractive man. If men do chase them, then they go after men that are better looking/higher status then the ones chasing them.
The only difference is now the hypergamous nature of women has become unleashed and they don't know how to stop chasing. Before, they had to stop chasing the dragon and keep their thoughts/fantasies to themselves. Men aren't winning now because women can get with another man, a 'better one', and not even realize they are being played. As soon as the fun ends for that man, they end it and go on to the next plate that thinks she will be trading up as well. The cycle continues, there is no true affection from women. There are only qualities in her that you seek and protect them and care for them because of that. But it is not and will never be reciprocated. They hold the biological advantage and aren't just giving that up willingly.
The modern era has lifted the responsibility of men to keep women and has liberated women from submitting to her man. Sexual attraction is all but a ruse to keep her interested, and they are not interested in their beta providers, they are not interested in having sex with their beta providers. If you enter long term relationships with them, you will become a beta provider, and there isn't any getting around that.
That is why I say, just enjoy yourself, enjoy who you are, and if you want feigned interest from women, then be that enigma, that challenge, that fantasy of commitment from a wanted man. But only be that to them, do not let them take control over your situation by adjusting yourself to them, by committing to them. If you want commitment, than that is an entirely different ball game, one that requires a lot more work, not only on yourself, but on how to handle her shit tests and maintain 'your frame' so to speak. But that is beyond the scope of this discussion. We 'go our own way' because modern society does not foster an environment to maintain an interest from a woman.
loneliness-inc Mod 5y ago
Excellent piece, thanks for saving it!
This is certainly true as the foundation and ignition points. However, what would you say kept our grandparents together for 50+ years?
It wasn't sex and resources alone. Not in the good marriages that were committed heart and soul, through thick and thin.
where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
What else were they going to do? They just had to deal with the uncomfortable truths of aging and working until you retire. Looking back at it they didn't have the most amazing relationship that everybody paints the traditional family household as having, but they had the best relationship I've ever seen. To me, that says everybody just dealt with each other because of the kids and grand kids. The ones that "looked like they had a really good relationship" just kept to themselves about the things that bothered them or what they couldn't change. Same with my great grandparents. I never saw them talking to each other in a nice way. They weren't scuffing at each other either. It just was. That was their life and they made the most out of it.
These days, people are just less inclined to doing any of those things. They are so connected to each other that they have this in the back of their mind, if it doesn't work out, they can speed dial up someone else. It makes them unable to compromise or attempt to see the silver lining in their relationships. They go through the honeymoon phase, then the motions of being 'together', then ... it just is and it isn't good enough. Women aren't all to blame for that, but it is a larger part of being encouraged by society to enact on their hypergamous instincts. Men can no longer just deal with it because the burden is so much higher to keeping her around then it used to be.
harharry 5y ago
I’ve seen older couples be together through thick and thin. I think it’s largely because they stay as best friends; sex is not at the top of their list, but they do like each other(or so it appears to me).
I think it’s possible for people to have great committed relations these days even with the honeymoon phase over but I think there are enough omitted variables that it would be difficult to pin down all the factors needed for successful LTR’s. If you asked me why the folks I know stay together after all these years I really would not be able to point to specific reasons definitively.
loneliness-inc Mod 5y ago
I merited to grow up with both sets of grandparents. I also observed and still observe how old couples interact with each other.
What you describe is certainly true for many. They stayed together because they had no choice and/or because of societal pressure etc. However, this isn't the case for all.
There were marriages that were truly awesome. I witnessed it in one set of grandparents and in several others. My question was regarding these marriages that were great - how did they stay great for all those years? Certainly, they had something other than base bodily needs being fulfilled.
That's my point.
where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
Are you sure you are not seeing the better side of their relationship? You weren't privileged to the ugly sides. That is kind of my point. You were given their best side because they both benefited from you being largely unaware of the real problems married couples face. It's a constant back and forth, being disgruntled, refueling the flame, life is great, she is controlling, it's ok, she is nagging, couples retreat, she steps back in line, great, good, bad, great, good... My point is, the ones that had the "best relationships" are the ones that kept most of the dirty work out of the minds of everyone around them.
I remember my grandparents fighting over some petty shit. Then I stepped into the kitchen and they finished their argument real quick. No, they weren't just that good at solving problems, they remember to put their laundry away.
What made them stay together? Isn't it obvious?
Man: I want sex and this woman will give that to me. Ok, I'm having sex, this is great. <kid pops out>. Have to keep working... for the kids.
Woman: I want stability and security, this man has promised that to me. Ok, I'll give him sex, this is great <kid pops out>. Have to keep on trucking... for the kids.
Grand kids come along.
Both parents: This is great, I get to enjoy more kids, but without all the other burdens of raising them. <kids get older> Were so glad we stayed together... for the kids.
It's just an act to bond them together. Most of them weren't sluts, and them men had more reservations with getting with sluts. I've talked with them, like watching older people in their state of minds (something we share evidently). There were expectations, if she didn't work, that house better be spic and clean and dinner ready when he got home. She did it, because that was expected, their friends all did it. If she didn't, she would be a lazy bum. She complained to her friends, they will always complain, but she still did the work. She still benefited from not having to work at a real job. When he came home, he kept her in her place. Better not find any dust on the fucking windows, woman. <wipes finger across the door moldings> You missed this spot over here. You do it now, while I watch. <humiliates her>. She doesn't fuck that up next time, but she bitches about how unfair her life is to all her friends. So what? Bitch and moan, but do your fucking job.
Sex bonds them, social pressures set the foundation for what that relationship mean, peers kept them on the right track, kids gave them justification, retirement was too late to do anything differently, might as well enjoy it.
I've never talked with an old couple that "stayed great all those years". They all bitched and whinged about it. Especially the men, "I got hair in my ears and I was thankful for that.", "Why?", "Because I couldn't hear as well.", "But why is that a good thing.", "When you've been married as long as I have...."
See what I'm saying? It was never roses and dandelions. It was weeds and thorns. But they presented the classical traditional couple, with him at his 9-5er and her doing the house chores with an apron on, both smiling and smooching in their 'leave it to beaver' kind of way. Nope. It was just better than it is now, but that hardly makes it great.
loneliness-inc Mod 5y ago
I know what you're saying. I know exactly what you're saying! Sounds exactly like my other grandparents who still fight over petty shit to this very day! I know plenty of others who are married for more than 50 years who are exactly as you describe them to be. I agree with everything you've said here.
But my other set of grandparents weren't like that. They had a deep love, devotion, commitment, respect and admiration for one another. Always, even when they disagreed, in which case grandpa's word was like the word of God to grandma. She was absolutely subservient to him. She served him and worshiped him until the day he died. Of course, she kept the house clean, cooked, did laundry etc. He never ever lifted a finger in any of the household tasks.
From what I could see over the 30 or so years I got to observe them up close - there was certainly something deeper holding them together that closely.
where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
I mean if a woman is the way you described, the man is going to love and cherish her more than anything. The power of a man's love is fierce when he has a good place to direct it. I think overtime women's shit test, nagging, and frivolous wants becomes a wedge to realizing his full potential. If a woman does not do that and the man doesn't have to use dread game than his love flourishes, she is happier than her friends, and the light between them glows bright. It's usually the light you have during the honeymoon phase, but instead of being the brightest then, it grows over time, because there is no hindrances on his love, nothing weighing down spoiling her. I don't know anyone that has achieved such relationship zen.
moorekom Mod 5y ago
Such relationship zen is very very rare but I've seen it, however temporary or short lived it was. I cannot speak to the long term possibility of such a thing. In both cases, it mainly boils down to the man being perceived as better than the woman and him not being needy and setting the rules of the relationship. If she doesn't derail the relationship because of some misstep from the guy, long term could be achieved. But, we're all human and there is no way a man can stay that hard all the time.
where_muh_good_mens 5y ago
I posted this in another comment, but I felt it expands on the following concept a little more:
They chase the idea of the man and they probably think men chase the idea of the woman, because a lot of simps do. Guys become infatuated with them without even getting to know them first. It's probably just as shallow to them as us looking at the way they chase Chad's all over. Only difference is men actually have this biological attraction rooted in their abilities to provide and protect women, whereas women have the biological attraction to choosing the best mate for reproduction. Different sides of the same coin.