"That's the problem. I was a good man to you. I sincerely apologize for that." was my response via text message. That concluded my marriage.
UPDATE AT BOTTOM
TL:DR- Being a "good man" killed my marriage. Everything I was brought to believe was wrong. I gave the best years of my life (and nearly $100k) to someone and it meant nothing.
I have learned my lesson. Being a "good man" is a death sentence for any potentially healthy relationship. Being stable, responsible, and attempting to be a good partner, is embarrassingly off-putting even for the most co-dependent and broken of women.
If I can backtrack, I used to be beta AF. I'm also an late in life diagnosed Asperger's which makes my social skills equitable to a styrofoam cup. But the damage was done in my formative years when it came to dating and women. High school was pure hell. My 20's were spent on the outside looking in, or in a marriage that resembled roommates.
When I met my wife, I was ecstatic. I still had that feminist ideology drilled in my head from my mother and her feminist friends on how a man should act, how a man should be in a relationship, how divorce pillaging is acceptable because men suck. I at that time, still believed in the institution of marriage and happily ever after. Boy, I fucked up.
I found her physically attractive. She was a few pounds overweight and far from her prime in her early 20's, but I'm not what you could call a "Chad" (not six feet tall, no six pack, no six figure income), so to speak, so I thought it was a give and take. I accepted her. Her personality was great. The sex was great to start. She wasn't my first partner or anything, but her partner count was about 3 times higher than mine. I accepted that. She had emotional issues. I accepted that. She wasn't financially stable or responsible, but I accepted that. I came to the rescue. I started gradually taking care of just about everything. I played my utilitarian role as my mommy taught me. Everything started great. Thank you "new relationship energy".
Then came the Chinese government color guard parade of red flags. As we started dating, the incremental bombshells:
"I've been married twice before". Big deal. I was divorced once myself. I accepted it.
"My first husband died and I'm still hurting from it". I accepted it. We talked about it. I offered to get her counseling.
"My dad abused me". I get that. My stepdad abused me.
"I was raped". You have my empathy. I was sexually assaulted twice. As a straight, cis-gendered white male, I'm the sexual assault victim no one gives a fuck about.
"I'm financially irresponsible". No worries. I'll hold down the fort for the basics on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and it's a good opportunity for you to get your ducks in a row. I just profited off selling my house, and I make pretty decent money. I was nothing more than a bailout, in hindsight.
Then came the fights when I tried to stand up for myself. I'm a giving person, but do not mistake my kindness for weakness by any means. Big mistake. Any time I stood up for myself, I got the "I'm a survivor of domestic violence and you're triggering me/reminding me of my abuser(s)." Bitch please. As someone who was abused and abandoned too, I can appreciate the built-in shut down defense mechanism. But I'm not buying it. I've been shot. You haven't. I'm not crying about it.
Then came our diametrically opposed sex lives. I'm not one to judge on someone's past. Everyone has something they're not proud of, or doesn't reflect well in mainstream society. I've been a monogamous person since I first had sex at 19. I'd maybe totalled up 13 or so partners including her. I'm in my mid-30's. I've never had the wild, hot, kinky, primal sex that she's had. She's bi. She's had MFF threesomes. She's had women. She's done all the things I'd dreamed of doing. She still talked about doing those things, but it took years to discover she wanted those things, just not with me. There was always an excuse when we talked about it during sexy time:
"I'm married to you now. I don't want to do that stuff anymore."
"I'm too old for that. I just want you now"
"It's fun to fantasize about, and talk about, but reality is sooo different." Uh huh.
This led to our first break up. I asked her to move out. She moved back in with her family across state lines. In that time I saw my doctor, improved my health, improved myself, focused on my job. Took care of business. Her? Hooking up with women. Hooking up with couples. But missed the stability and emotional gratification of Mr. Good Man.
Why, oh why did I take her back? What possessed me to think I wouldn't get zapped sticking the fork in the light socket a second time? We resumed relations. I went right back to being Mr. Good Man.
We got married. What was I thinking? Why was I trying so hard to fail? I was pressured and shamed into it. It was a veritable beat the clock challenge. But I loved her. The good in her made me overlook the ticking time bomb in the background.
Back to me being a good man. I put her on my health insurance as social norms dictate. We went to couples therapy to try to bridge the gap. My advice: Don't. It's more feminist sponsored man shaming. 1 + 1 = 2 is wrong for men in couples therapy. But I "manned up" and gave it my best. I made sure she was taken care of.
Back to the sex. As with all relationships when the NRE wears off, things get a little boring. I got a little depressed or something. I got consumed by a life changing event. She's not happy because I'm not kissing her ass, but she's not happy when I kiss her ass. Turns out we're back to talking about being with other women again, blah blah blah. This time I didn't engage. I didn't bite. I called bullshit. The list of excuses were still stored in my mind like an excel spreadsheet. Cell A3 "I'm with you now". Cell C5 "I'm not in my prime and the women that like me don't do it for me". EDIT: Cell D1 "I'm more pickier about women than men" (well gee, thanks, I guess)
The nail in the coffin: I started realizing that I needed to improve myself, for myself. I slowly started taking a few extra moments every day to do something for myself. I did something that made me happy. Whether it was cooking something I wanted, or fixing something in the garage, I was slipping it in there under the radar. I wasn't there to be her "good man" as much anymore. I wasn't kissing her ass or asking "how high?" when she said "jump".
I told her to get a "girl friend" to go do things with to alleviate the pressure off of me to be the financier, the entertainer, the planner, the fixer, the problem solver, etc. Notice the space in between girl and friend. That's called the friend zone, or something like that.
She approaches me one night after work and tries to engage me in a conversation about my #1 fantasy unrealistic hope of a two girl threesome. She informed me that she went on tinder and was matching with women. Great. Worst case, I get some peace and quiet. But as it turns out, if I was involved, no other woman was interested. Of course the women would be interested in her as a single female or as a third for their marriage, but not good ol' Mr. Good Man. So once again, I waved the white flag and wrote that off as ever happening.
Then I had enough. After all this nonsense about swinging, threesomes, etc, it triggered my inferiority complex from growing up and I snapped. I stopped caring. I said "Do this for you, I want nothing to do with it anymore". I guess that translated to switching it to her seeking men and counting her 600+ likes in under 8 hours. She made sure to point it out, and it hurt me. It offended me. I never had more than 25 likes from women in a week's time span. I let her know that it was a cunt move to do that to rub in her sexual viability. I tried to leave the room and she tried the desperation dick grab and guilty make up sex. I declined. I went to bed in the other room.
I was unhappy beyond the point of repair. I needed to be alone. I was better off alone. I asked her to leave again. She quit her job. She moved back across state lines. I tried to be cordial about it because although I had little left to lose this time around in the state mandated pillaging, I still cared for her. Mistake. First weekend back there, I guess she hooked up with a lesbian crush from high school. Fuck that. I realized right then and there that I was the problem. If I was a jerk at any point in the beginning of our courtship, she would have been playdoh in my alpha hands. I could have played to her weaknesses and got what I wanted. But I didn't. I cared. I disengaged from the conversation. Pointed out this is why we were separating/divorcing and getting my affairs in order.
I said: "I tried. I gave you everything you needed and then some. I was there every time to pick up the pieces while your family hung you out to dry. They didn't care enough to ask how you were doing half the time. While you were depressed and unemployed where were they? On vacation. Who picked up the slack? Me. Who was there? Me. Who believed in you to the point of falling on my figurative sword? Me. I'm sorry. I can't do it anymore. Marriage can't be a one way street, stability in exchange for single servings of brief satisfaction, and nothing in return for a very serious investment on multiple fronts. I can't continue to put a band-aid over a gun shot wound (tried it literally) You're a beautiful woman, and a good person. You just need to find what actually makes you happy in life."
Her reply was mostly bullshit. How she was sorry that it ended like this. She still loves me. She's doing better now (even taking an anti-depressant- being Mr. Good Man even prevents wellness) She doesn't blame me, "but you're a good man"
"That's the problem. I was a good man to you. I sincerely apologize for that."
Thanks for reading. I apologize for the book. Beats spending $100 on a shrink to tell me I'm wrong. And seeing that the dating market for mid 30's people is a dumpster fire of leftovers, single moms with agendas, and disingenuous feminists, I'm done. I'm not afraid of commitment, I'm afraid of the collateral damage when that commitment blows up in my face.
UPDATE: Well it appears after a long phone conversation with her while sorting out some of the details of the split (thankfully amicable) last night, I believe that we got to the root of her unhappiness. She knows what she needs to do and has the opportunity to take it. So hopefully without going into details here, I have actually in an end-around way inadvertently helped her by helping myself. Shit. I learned more about life, relationships and women by being with her than the hundreds of hours I spent in therapy for being a broken man. I wish to thank you all for your support, insight, kinds words, and constructive criticism. I could have made many more mistakes last night if I didn't know what I know now. I am on my way to being a better self.
genji_is_throwing 4y ago
At first I thought this was a typical nice guy story but no. This is awful you went through this. (I know I'll get hate for being a chick but anyways). But that's straight up abuse and gaslighting from her. You're a sexual assault and abuse survivor too but you don't cope in a destructive way like she does. You've also helped yourself in this situation and done your part and then some, whereas she hasn't done shit and instead just used you. It's good you're out of this now. Good luck with the split and everything. Really hope it goes well and you find someone. You really do seem like a great guy. And one more thing, standing your ground and getting shot down by your partner, pretty sure that's emotional abuse/manipulation there and then. So shame on her.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Thank you for your kind words. It means a lot in times like these. I've received more sincere kindness from strangers on the internet than in my personal life. If I had gold or silver, I would give it to you.
But here's where it gets fun. I feel like I got screwed over. I will go as far to say I got cucked. Her little fling partner gets to reap the rewards of years of hard work I put in. I got nothing. I got used so long as I was purposeful, then classified as obsolete when I understood the investment soured. She tried a "have her cake and eat it too" scenario. I'm changing the locks this weekend. I reprogrammed the garage door. She isn't getting back in. Figuratively or literally.
I gave her everything she ever needed, and then some. Then even more. It was the most selfless thing I ever done. Also the most thankless. I've realized that in reality, no one in my life will ever be here for me in a time of crisis. This is more than her. This is 36 years of burnout coming to a head.
I wrecked my motorcycle hard Wednesday morning. All I got from anyone was the disingenuous "are you ok?" Trust me, I rolodexed my phone looking for any help I could find. I had to Uber home to get a car. My "friends", family and spouse show up when it's "gimme gimme", but scatter like roaches when the tables turn. I'm on an island.
Look what being a great guy earned me? Debt. Depression. Self harm scars. Emptiness. Doubt. Worthlessness. Fear. Insecurities. Hopelessness.
I went to bat for anyone I held in high regard and all I wanted in return was mutual respect and reciprocity. But who's got my six? No one. Of course she got me the worst of anyone.
Find someone? Yeah. No one wants damaged goods. It's the whole premise of this sub. A 36 year old Autist, soon to be twice divorced at rock bottom. That's not a viable market for a partner. The tinder litmus test proved that.
Maybe when I'm 40, and recover from this mess to the point that I don't see the biggest dumbass in the United States looking back in the mirror. Maybe I'll be good enough then. Maybe I'll let go with both hands.
genji_is_throwing 4y ago
Thanks for the silver! That's some more awful stuff to go through. But before you say you're biggest dumbass in America, just remember you managed to get out of this situation. You managed to see what you really meant to these people. You may feel it took too long, but you did it. And that's something you should give more credit to yourself for :)
Riddiness 4y ago
What attracted you to her in the first place? What was the main reason you brought her back into your life and tolerated this behavior? You're a good man as per post, what made you believe she was a good woman?
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Because at the foundation, we had a lot in common and similar goals. She was child free like me but wanted kids Plus she is/was ridiculously attractive to me and the sex was dynamite.
She put on a good front. But she's compulsively miserable. She never intended to be content with anything. Buried under the chronic misery was a great human being. In investment terms, there was potential for tremendous upside. She refused to dig herself out.
When I was in that position at Rock bottom, the tiniest bit of outside help, love, care etc snowballed into me doing a 180. I assumed the same for her. I wanted it, she didn't.
I believe in second chances. I bit on the Trojan horse/facade again. Then I got sick of sticking the penny in the light socket. Now I give myself a second chance.
Riddiness 4y ago
Good luck. I'm trying to give myself a second chance too, as the female version of this story. It can only get better from here.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Yes. It does and will get better. I'm better by the minute. There's so much beauty in the things you find outside of the status quo.
I recommend Matthew Heafy's lecture on failure. It's brilliant. It's on YouTube. Realize your awesomeness.
[deleted] 4y ago
[removed]
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Please read /r/deadbedrooms. It's all about chore play and men's utilitarianism in marriage. Mow the lawn, take out the trash, fix things. Raise the kids. Pay for shit. Raise someone else's kids. It's thankless and when the usefulness becomes obsolete, man itself becomes at least partially disposable. The adultery subreddit also outlines how monogamous relationships die when men stop being masculine (there's that toxic masculinity again), and become utilitarians. That's why marriage kills sex drives
To be correct it would be volcel. I refuse to be a dancing circus animal to pander for sex. I refuse to be manipulated by the concept of sex for compliance. Don't get me wrong, I loved getting laid like tile on demand, but the expense of that was not a sound investment. I love women. I hate the fact I'm attracted to shitty women, same as women are magnetically attracted to jackoffs, and assholes. Two way street. Relationship Advice and dating over 30 are a gold mine for this ideology. Mindset determines what we attract as mates. My shit mindset earned me a shit prize. A better mindset may attract a different set of results.
You may swap alpha and beta for "confident" and "lacking confidence". Happy versus compulsively miserable. I personally prefer the terms used to describe the order of things for most every living thing on the planet per National Geographic, Discovery, and science in general since the beginning of time.
I do like your buzzword bingo, though.
95% of that left with her. The other 5% was this post. I'm not angry, bitter, etc. I shared my thoughts, feelings, opinions on what modern society views men need to be and the tactics used to force compliance. I gave my view on what being a "good man" or "real man" by women's standards (stable providers, not jerks/abusive), and the "rewards" of what providing stability, reliability, emotional availability, and support really are. Might as well voluntarily step on landmines.
I'm not angry. I was sad. I'm not sad anymore. My eyes are open. For the first time in 35 years, I'm alive. I'm free. Every minute I'm free, I heal more. Everytime I clean up a part if this mess, I heal. I'm happier than ever. I do what I want. I answer to nobody except the law (and I keep that to a bare minimum). My life is on my terms. I get my hobbies back. My passion and fire for life is stronger than ever. I hop on my motorcycle and just go until I feel like stopping. Will this mindset and new found happiness lead to a healthy relationship? Possibly. But I no longer need one. I am free of the shackles. I will let the puzzle pieces fall into place versus forcing the issue to comply with social/societal norms.
I appreciate your input and constructive criticism. It's not personal for me anymore. I have come to realize that I dodged a barrage of artillery shells by breaking this cycle and not having kids with her. I'm good to go.
sneakpeekbot 4y ago
Here's a sneak peek of /r/DeadBedrooms using the top posts of the year!
#1: I (LL) initiated sex last night. Was foiled by children, but the difference in my husband today is incredible.
#2: This REALLY struck me. What sex means to me as an HL. Thoughts? | 338 comments
#3: I think i finally understand whats made me so unattractive.
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Trapperr_AO 4y ago
That's a great story...so why do you still give her the time of day? Ghost that bitch.
I'm not trying to be harsh here but I see some codependency in you. I recognize it because I had it once. You need to stop contacting her and block her everywhere. Change your number. Move if you have to. If you have any mutual friends get rid of them.
If you don't do this she's going to find you at a weak moment and fuck up your life all over again. What was healthy for me was completely forgetting about my fuckup ex. I don't care if she dies of exploding cancer in the asshole or wins the lottery. I don't fucken care. She means nothing to me. Zero. And is the most liberating experience I have ever had almost 5 decades on this Earth.
I had some pretty fucken good therapy at a $175 an hour for about a year. Really fixed me, what decades of other doctors and people and therapy couldnt.
I couldn't stand how much of a ranting political fringe idiot she was but she seriously fixed 99% of my problems. I was codependent as FUCK and had no idea I was.
Dr Tara Palmatier, if you know of her.
moorekom Mod 4y ago
u/Trapperr_AO
Don't reveal any identifiable info in any comments here. I understand the intent and the care behind it, but stay safe. It might seem extra cautious, but, I would suggest you to edit out the name of the doctor you went to. PM those details from here on.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Done done done done and done. She's gone. I said my piece and wrapped it up.
All comms are through proxy via attorney. My boundaries are set in stone.
I'm on to better things. I'm doing things for me. My own way. I tried to do the right thing and now I'm doing my own thing.
To quote J-Dog from Hollywood Undead.
"Love's a drug, I'm an addict. Ditched my heart just to kick the habit".
DeeplyDisturbed1 4y ago
I once asked my mother about her take on me. I am quoting from old memories here, but it's close...
Me: "Mom, what do women want in a man?"
Her : "I want a man who is strong and can support me and his kids. I want a man who can take anything I dish out..."
Me: "I get the first part, but the rest doesn't sound very appealing to me. Are you saying that I should take whatever my woman dishes out, no matter how bad?"
Her: "Yes. That's what good men do"
Let's just say I did not follow her advice.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
And I will never follow that advice again.
BluepillProfessor 4y ago
All.this is true but being nice or bad is not a light switch. It is a dimmer switch. You can become more independent without blowing it all to hell. Usually.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
eh, it's like any other game, sport, battle or war. Once you've shown your genuine hand/game plan with your adversary (the female), it's over. She can and will use it against you.
You can't just call a mulligan.
[deleted] 4y ago
Thank you for sharing that. I think we have all been there on different compromising levels. It is good to be reminded from time to time how things really happen, before we can fall for something we might believe it is an exception for the rule. I dare to say that, besides the financial losses, you are on a better spot now. mid to late 30's brings us a much clearer mind regarding sex and relationships.
Again, thank you for sharing, OP.
DarthBroker 4y ago
Good post.
I am going to say something that may not be popular, but this whole thing could have been nipped in the bud if you didnt accept all the shit that she was giving you in the relationship. She showed the red flags and you continued on. It appears that you have low self worth to think that you deserve such treatment from women. your parents conditioning may have assisted there also.
I cant be too hard on you, because I did the same. My ex-fiance was all kinds of a dumpster fire, but I kept try to see past all her negatives and focus on the positives. when in reality, I just didnt feel like I deserved better...and that her 25% good was better than her 75% shit and was worth trying to link up with for life.
focus on yourself and your happiness. I know, men focused on their happiness is like an unheard of phrase out here but you are the king of your world and you decide who can enter and if they are worthy
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
This is 100% correct. Basically in the back of my mind from the start I knew that there was trouble. I knew that it may or may not work. But I said fuck it. I tried anyways. I took a gamble. The house won.
I had zero self worth. I will be the first to admit that. I have my fair share of issues. Going undiagnosed with Asperger's til now fucked me using sand as lube when it came to relationships/social life. Being unable to understand social cues and human interaction is a mindfuck of epic levels. When I base things on being factual, while most women I've dealt with have based things on feelings (since I don't understand feelings 2/3 the time), it's as if I already have to come back from a large deficit to win the game.
I wouldn't say that I "deserved" bad treatment per se , but my depression and other shit gave me a jumbo jet full of empathy for her. One of my worst traits is a disproportionate level of loyalty to those whom I am loyal to. Whether it was the cesspool of dysfunctional parenting, my aspergers or apparently my zodiac sign (I don't believe in that, though), apparently I'm loyal to a fault. This is where I set myself up for failure with her. I being in my factual mindset, knowing that a little bit of help here and there got me out of the abyss, I always thought that hand up could get her out. That little helping hand became a "help pull me out". That pull turned into a full on tow from a 6.2 liter GM diesel. I learned that I couldn't help those whom didn't want to be helped, the hard way.
I wanted the better version of her. I gambled on an improved version of her, being what I wanted in a relationship. I rolled the dice on her being what she wanted to be, which was what I wanted at that time. That's the #1 mistake anyone can make when choosing a life partner. Kind of a sick twist of fate from women chasing the bad boy to try and tame them. I tried to repair a damaged woman as if it were a crashed motorcycle. There were brief fleeting moments of total euphoria that made it almost worth it.
It was a compatibility issue that reared it's head well past the point of no return once I committed. It's not really anything I can fault her or myself on. I made choices that I hold myself accountable for. She made choices she's being held accountable for. She's not a bad person. She's a wonderful human being. I just shouldn't have gotten serious with her. We just shouldn't have jumped in the deep end so fast. For once in my life, being friend zoned would have been a saving grace.
That's why I'm doing what I'm doing now. For once in my life, I'm going to focus on me and let the cards fall where they may. I put my motorcycle back together. It's an old POS, but it's mine. I bought a old military diesel truck, because I wanted it not because of what she thought of it. I'm putting my project car back on the road that's now outlasted 2 marriages. I'm getting back into musical instruments. I'm selling the house she liked (for our future family) and buying a house that fits me. I'm reconnecting with old friends and family. I'm apologizing and trying to mend fences with those I hurt during this ordeal. I'm going to be ok.
moroots 4y ago
first, kudos for manning up and accepting the criticism and not talking it personally. that, at least from me, earns a high level of respect
re: being too loyal to those that dont deserve it. humans are wired to perceive losses and gains differently. many behavioral finance studies have shown that people lose more emotional utility when they lose $100 than gain utility when winning $100
when you combine this with a scarcity mindset that may have developed because you could only get a girl every now and then and you have a toxic recipe for being too loyal
also breaking up with someone, or ending a friendship or even business relationship can be very difficult. I didn't get the strength to do many of these things until later in life. personal growth and growth of self love and self respect seldom follow a linear path
moorekom Mod 4y ago
A woman is in her best behavior in the beginning. If she thinks you're better than her and if she's chasing you, she will become submissive and accommodating pretty fast. From then on, it can either stay the same or it can go down. Once it goes down, the best thing you can hope for is to bring it back to where it once was. And that will be hard because she will fight you all the way to keep the control. If she never was submissive to you, you're never getting that. People don't change. Not to the level that you think they will.
Nope. Every bitch just wants a man she feels comfortable submitting to. If she wanted to please you, she would have put her best foot forward and stayed on that course. Do not tolerate bad behavior. Don't make the wrong conclusions from this lesson. It is up to you to act in a way to trigger her submission. It is up to her to submit to you completely. Any hiccup in either step and the relationship won't work. Go check out trp sub. Read the sidebar, top posts and post from authors archwinger and humansockpuppet. Good luck in your journey.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Well the good news is that I'm done with women in a serious, committed, monogamous manner. I won't have to worry about it anymore. I may miss out on some one in a million unicorn but thats playing Russian roulette with a semi auto.
moorekom Mod 4y ago
Make her earn a relationship. Getting sex is a man's problem. Getting a relationship is a woman's problem.
Blackfysh88 4y ago
I’ve been through similar, OP. There really was nothing more satisfying to finally stop giving a fuck about women or society and just become... extremely selfish.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
i'm happy to be focusing on myself.
[deleted] 4y ago
I've been here too. Remember the only person who truly gives a shit about you is only you.
[deleted] 4y ago
This struck too close to home. Being nice and accommodating gets you nothing but pain and misery these days, especially with women. You need to treat them like the modern woman treats you - high standards, flake, be unaccommodating, ignore them, be talking with and ideally sleeping with more than one etc.
How do I know? I used to be the person who was nice, accommodating and actually cared. All it got me was hugs, maybe some cuddling and alot of stupid texting/phone calls/favors asked. The other way has gotten me loved and laid.
[deleted] 4y ago
Excellent. Learned have you?
​
Yoda
midnightblood 4y ago
I am sorry you went through that. It proves that AWALT (all women are like that).
​
Guys, remember if you're going to bother with women, it's pump and dump. Never live with or date a woman. You never know when she's going to go from the sweet girl you love into a monster
BluepillProfessor 4y ago
Nah, usually you know on the honeymoon when the sweet, submissive girl.routine is tested and 99% of men fail.
moorekom Mod 4y ago
Exactly. Most guys don't understand that women pretend to submit to you in the beginning to test your frame. If they can manipulate you through that, they will. They will truly submit only after you've broken through that test. Until you make it clear that you won't do anything you don't want to regardless of how she acts, she will try to manipulate you with niceness also. Stand your ground and she will yield.
multiamory 4y ago
I'm transitioning into counseling and men's issues are big for me. I'm not saying you currently need counseling or that what happened to you didn't. What I'd like to add is the number one factor in the success of therapy is the relationship with the counselor. We're not all the same, some drastically different. If the time ever comes, I hope you'll consider therapy with the caveat of trying a few different therapists out and finding one you click with
moroots 4y ago
thank you for sharing this
[deleted] 4y ago
Every man happens to be the good boy. We've been educated to be like this by our mothers. Specially if your father was off all day.
houseoftolstoy Mod 4y ago
It sounds like you were in a no-win scenario when it came to having anything long term with your ex-wife. There was no ground for foundation to have any sense of stability with all the warning signs that you mentioned.
I am unsure that you would have been able to salvage anything by simply being a "jerk" early on. That may have provided some attraction from her, but I question how well that would foster success in the long term in this case. Perhaps I am misreading what you mean by being a "jerk," as it may just mean you stopped being a doormat (I use jerk in quotes since I do not think you mean actual mistreatment but rather self-respect). The reason I say this would not work is because I do not think there was anything that could be done to salvage the relationship. I understand the importance of always looking at yourself as the main point of failure, but sometimes that goes too far. It is the exact opposite of blaming fate for all of your problems, blaming yourself for everything that went wrong. The best move I would see is that you never would be involved with her in the first place, which may have been the ultimate mistake.
Also, I definitely would not believe her words that she thinks that you are a good man. If she actually thought that, she would not have used you in the way that she did. She saw you as a target, a utility, not as a man. I certainly do not blame you for not wanting to commit to a woman again, unlike the typical Tradcon who will say "You just did not choose right!" Every man needs to be cautious before commitment, and ask himself if he even should in the first place.
BluepillProfessor 4y ago
To a woman, good man = Mark or target, not a human deserving of respect and compassion.
Don't be the good man. Be the skittles man. It is what they want.
dgrawrpla 4y ago
Great post! Who needs these kind of women anyway? Good luck for the future!
lorem6300118 4y ago
I know the internet is filled with snark and irony, but here is something sweet and sincere:
You seem like a lovely person. I hope you find an outlet for the care you did your best to share with her. Perhaps there is some aspiration or urge that you forgot about. Heck, maybe you’ll get some guidance in a dream.
Hillarysdilddo_2016 4y ago
Thanks for sharing your story and I hope you find the healing you need. Solid post.
EffigyDijjih 4y ago
That's a lot of shit to dump off man, respect. Stories go a long way, it's one thing to see the bimbos plastered all over OLD but it's a shellshock reading just how fucked it can get dealing with their types.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
I'm just happy I woke up before children got involved.
IronBallsMcGinty 4y ago
That was my mistake. First marriage, she had three kids by two dads, and I was a good man, like you. I didn't wake up until our daughter was born. Was there for ten years before I'd finally had enough and filed for divorce. Fortunately, she was an absolute shitbag, and I ended up with sole custody. She didn't pay a dime of the $100 a month the court allotted me for support - but that was fine, she was out of my life and for the most part, out of my daughter's life.
BoskOfPortKar 4y ago
Being a "good man" to a female means you submitted to her bullshit (part of her very few "weapons").
If a weak animal like her "got" you, everybody else can in her eyes.
Thus you are weak and stinks death.
This is why females do shit tests 24/24, 7/7, 365/365.
To asses if you can protect her from external dangers.
I am not advocating to be a bad man.
Just be the Lion you are.
rorrr 4y ago
Loos like you were a bailout. Not interested in you at all, only your money.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
IMO she just honestly believed she was just entitled to be taken care of. Not looking for a bail out for sins of the past, but more for having a man in that utilitarian role to be useful. She was interested, so long as I took care of things.
Orfeu_da_Conceicao 4y ago
Dude I wish I had some coins to give you. This is a first class post. I'm still struggling with wrapping my head around Hypergamy. I have a few girls I talk to who I immediately think about trying to LTR, and if it weren't for excellent observations brought by red pilled gentleman I would have by now. It's hard but I have to transform my brain into recognizing very few women deserve to go past my relationship gate. Women who are hot, haven't smashed the whole city, can cook/clean etc. Etc. Thanks man! Your knowledge is invaluable and I'm going to use this to avoid my bad habits.
LordMitre 4y ago
People get “being a good man” completely wrong exactly because of all this feminist propaganda
for them, being a “good” man means “being defenseless, incapable of hurting even a mosquito”
but that’s A BIG LIE, in order to be “good” you HAVE TO be able to hurt, to do harm but don’t do it, be a loaded gun all the time
I’m sorry for you and my advice for you is go to church, church is a place where it tends to be feminist resistant and you might find woman who are willing to be good spouses
And yes, I am afraid of end up with a shitty person and I am doing my best to avoid that...
edit: and don’t be sad about your threesome, as long you have money you can hire 2, 3, 4, and as many as you want
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
It just sounds good. It's the thought that being with a man won't treat her like garbage is a good idea, however there is some pheromone that is given off by 80% of men that leads to lack of tingles and dryness down south.
notice the church in the background, this is why I am even afraid feminism has reached religious women
moorekom Mod 4y ago
Nah. Churches are beta factories. Read dalrock's blog. He covers religion in the west extensively.
[deleted] 4y ago
He calls it churchianity and yeah I’m still digging myself out of that crap. Still a Christian but so much of what they teach about this stuff is a lie and they cater super hard to the feminine imperative.
Bronzeraptor 4y ago
You're not wrong here. The modern church seems to focus on "God is love," bringing in safe Jesus stories and posting the effeminate pictures of Christ from the Renaissance and they're good.
Start talking about Christ crafting whips and scourging the temple, buying swords or even mention God's wrath or justice, and some folks get uncomfortable.
Also, to the previous poster's point, some churches are more resistant than others. Many of the more left-leaning denominations are already overrun. Research your church and choose carefully.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Unfortunately, churches are last chance refuge for desperate women. They can just show up, baggage in tow, declare they give their life to Jesus Christ and boom. She's healed. All past sins are forgiven. She's born again. She's not like that anymore and has proof.
BluepillProfessor 4y ago
What's that? Hymen repair?
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
actually heard of that being done.
However it's usually that spiritual epiphany where she says "oh gee, i'm not like that anymore." Hiding behind new found spirituality is the closet thing to hymen repair you can find.
Next time you're scrolling through online dating profiles, note how many of the single moms have a "great relationship with the lord". I found 10 with no effort.
LordMitre 4y ago
we are here to help
the natural order is children relying on women
women relying on men
and who will men rely on?
on other men, we are the very basic foundation of society, this is why destroying men is so important to feminists...
be good and stand against tyranny (specially the feminist one)
have you considered r/mgtow?
moorekom Mod 4y ago
OP, good post. This is the type of content we expect from our contributors in this sub. We are partial to good analytical essays as well.
That said, from now on whenever you deal with women, remember this. Women want a man who is judgemental. Nothing arouses them more than to raise up to the high standards you set and to prove to herself and you that she is a woman of quality. This is how negging works. It's not about calling her dumb. It's about making her feel inadequate.
If a woman asks you about your n count, ask her if she would rather be one in ten or if she would be one in hundred. Subtle shaming and dread works wonders. I see that you've been too acceptable with this useless, used up wet hole. Don't do that. If a woman is not chasing you, don't give her the time of the day. If she's not trying to please you, don't spend time with her. And for God's sake, don't cohabitate in this day and age unless she is a virgin from a traditional family that values commitment and hard work.
Improve yourself dude. You either have to suffer in the beginning or suffer at the end. Make a pledge to yourself that your suffering is now over. Be very selfish from now. You come first. Your interests come first. Until she puts your interests above hers, she doesn't deserve shit. She can go back to being pumped and dumped. You might yourself choose to become Chad if you have the mind for it. Either way, we'll always be here. You can come to us anytime and, as brothers, we will always welcome you as long as you respect your fellow brothers.
Edit: This post is now stickied and will be cross posted to the main sub over the weekend. If you would prefer not to, let me know.
When you have the time, read this post. Might give you some insight about the good men phenomenon.
[deleted] 4y ago
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moorekom Mod 4y ago
I'll explain it to you in simple terms. If you have a daughter and if she's a virgin, I'll marry her. If not, I'll fuck her but I will never marry her. Sure, she can be my girlfriend for a while if she acts pleasant. But no, she won't get married to me. She won't have kids with me. Men do have a say in that. It's not all about what women want.
You can decide what to teach your daughter. You can teach her to be chaste and to only fuck the one guy she wants to stay married to for the rest of her life or you can tell her to "follow her heart" and be a slut. We'll treat her accordingly. We don't care about her degree or accomplishments or maturity or any of that nonsense. We want a beautiful, young, innocent woman who would stay faithful to us for the rest of her life. That's it. Anything more than that is unnecessary but appreciated if present.
If you want to find a guy who would still marry her after she's had miles of cock, then good luck to you and your whore daughter. But that won't be me. Nor would it be anyone in this sub or in the manosphere. You can bitch and moan about it all you want. Say that it isn't fair to women. Try to guilt trip us. Try to shame us. Try to be sanctimonious. We don't give a shit. We are worried about what's good for men.
And yes, your ass is getting banned. You ain't special. You will be subject to the rules of this sub. We don't allow debates or white knighting. This sub isn't for you. I'll now show you the exit.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
thank you.
moorekom Mod 4y ago
My pleasure.
beenthere789 4y ago
Beautifully written.. I'm glad you are free now.. I am 20 years older than you and all of your observations that I have experienced are true.. To this point here is what I know from experience..
Women say that they want a good man to your point... They never do and never did.. It is off putting to them.. Nice guys indeed do finish last.. Never be one..
I have never dated in over the 60 women I have met and had relationships with one who did not claim abuse of some kind..emotional, physical, financial, mental, psychological perceived or real.. It doesn't matter.. And Including domestic violence.. How can that be?? ...statistically impossible..and I am not captain save a hoe.. I looked specifically for well adjusted women.. Trust me you will always pay one way or another for that real or likely fabricated perceived injustice..
Married twice before.. The only thing that surprises me is she was not a single mom with three kids by two different fathers.. Shows inability to pair bond especially in conjunction with her past n count and sexual practices .. Lucky for you it appears she didn't have kids... Divorce rape and cs would be be the norm for the rest of your life
600 likes on tinder.. She is getting all her validation from thirsty beta simps which unfortunately is the root of a lot of this shit today.. She believes there is always a back up plan available that is better than you and wants to rub it in your face..
You figured it out buddy..and don't worry you are not alone You and I and all men are better men for having figured this out now rather than later .. I really feel for you and this so resonated with me.. GYOW ... Simple truth.. Focus on yourself and never look back..
battyryder 4y ago
You don't need to apologise bro, you don't need to apologise ever again. Glad you got out, maybe another bro will read your story, wake up & save himself.
[deleted] 4y ago
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anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
Thanks. Mommy was so proud to point out that her son was "raised by women" (after divorce pillaging my piece of shit dad) and was the ever so proper gentlemen; Holding doors, pulling out chairs, giving my jacket when a damsel was chilly, etc.
How did that work out?
FuckKarmaAndFuckYou 4y ago
I believe I am currently going through all this. If I'm nice, helpful, get you whatever you want, let you pick where we live, where we stay, where we go to eat, if I drop everything to do what you ask, plan out things based completely on your priorities, if I'm always there for support and if I'm always the one to compromise..... I thought there would be an atmosphere of peace, happiness, tranquility and love. It doesn't turn out that way because it's never enough. There is always something wrong with me.
There are a million things that are wrong with her too but if I mention them, even the slightest most miniscule thing... All hell breaks loose. And I dont have the emotional energy to fight that fight because it will last forever or at least until I'm the one apologizing for her wrong doings just to shut her up.
[deleted] 4y ago
This sounds very toxic. I agree with OP, but please do receive therapeutic help afterwards.
Or even before you leave her, talk to her about her feelings. Tell her that if she doesn’t listen to what you have to say, then you’re leaving her. If she truly loves you, she will listen.
BluepillProfessor 4y ago
Your solution is to dngaf or run. Stop caring what she thinks or stop being with this person.
anon_likes_tendies 4y ago
dude. bail. run, do not walk to the nearest exit.
bigboilerdawg 4y ago
So don't fight. Let her rant on, but don't engage.
moorekom Mod 4y ago
Shit dude, why do you still stay? Why haven't you left already?
RegiusGeralt 4y ago
I think I got more red pilled from this story.