Hey redpill astronauts,
I came across this posts on the seduction subreddit about a girl who went on an expensive date with a guy from Tinder. Both of them frequent the seduction subreddit so she posts how the date went in the hopes of him seeing it so he could know how much of a "nice guy" he is. Top comments skewer her for taking advantage of the guy. She tries to hamster her way out.
Decent game by JH
In comes JH. A Tinder match who got my number pretty darn quickly. I hadn't thought he was my type at all but I swiped because he looked really fun to be around. We were texting and he asked when I was moving cities (I'm going massively South in 2 weeks, UK). Before I could reply he sent, "Don't tell me. Tell me on our first date." We head over to Whatsapp and man this boy was so fun to talk to. Just gonna leave this here in case you're wondering what it looked like.
Me: I keep complaining to my housemate that I go to bed too late and yet, hear I am.
- JH: Well, neither of us really wants me to stay away
- Me: Woah. I just said hear. Instead of here. I'm embarrassed.
- JH: Woah. I didn't even call you out on it!
- Me: We are really letting our guards down.
- JH: Evidently... This is dangerous.
- JH: going to sleep If you appear in my dreams again I'll be sure to tell you. Me: Again. JH: Again *JH: He pays for tickets for a date I figured if we're going to fall hopelessly in love, money is meaningless really
- JH: Wait, your real name isn't Lightergait?
- Me: Nope! A nickname. Hate my birth name.
- JH: Well I'll keep calling you Lightergait then. So far it's my 3rd favourite thing about you.
- Me: What's the 1st and 2nd?
- JH: I'll tell you over that glass of wine we talked about.
- Me: Only 5/10 hugs please. I don't want to fall in love with you.
- JH: I could push for a 6. Then you'd only have bittersweet memories.
I know guys on The Redpill have mixed feelings on paying for a date. In this case I think JH was ok with paying for her ticket to the comedy show. Shouldn't have been more than $20.00
I thought we'd arrange a place and time for the date together, but when I asked him what we were going to do he'd already paid for us to go to a comedy club night and would meet me at the station on Saturday evening. Swoon.
This is where JH fucks up. Once he refused to have her pay for anymore of her drinks she already knew she could make him go all the way.
So it's Saturday. We walk from the station. I'd promised him a drink so we get that whilst waiting to get into the event. That was the last time he let me pay for a drink (whaaaat).
Never give out more than necessary on a first date. All the mystery is gone once you share everything.
Law 4 Always Say Less than Necessary
When you are trying to impress people with words, the more you say, the more common you appear, and the less in control. Even if you are saying something banal, it will seem original if you make it vague, open-ended, and sphinx like. Powerful people impress and intimidate bysaying less. The more you say, the more likely you are to say something foolish.
We get into the event early and use that time to tell each other about our lives from womb to present.
Typical date banter. Nothing out of the ordinary. I would have pushed her to talk more about her racist past. How she was able to overcome it. Make her feel like she is a strong woman for getting away from that. This makes you look like an active listener and creates sensitive emotions within her. Is she can stop and think, "This guy is a great listener. He really gets me." then you're in a good place.
We quickly realise we may have been cloned (or he was just really good at fibbing). We speak about robots taking over the world, humans gaining superpowers, how he'd trudged through 3 interviews to get a new job and I open up about my racist upbringing and how I broke out of it (he's black).
Poor TH is establishing that he's beta bucks. What is her reply? OF COURSE ITS ALRIGHT!
The comedy act starts and we laugh til we cry. The interval comes and I visit the ladies. I come back to find he'd bought a bottle of wine in a fancy iced jug (I've never been bought wine before!). "Is this all right?", he asks. Ugh, of course it's all right!
She actually tells him to get a hotel for the night but that 'absolutely nothing will happen'. Now if this isn't a prime example of beta bucks and mixed signals that could lead to false rape charges then I don't know what else can be.
The comedy finishes and we head back to the bar for more drinks. He's buying, again. I tell him I need to get the train home soon (I'm from a town outside the city) as the last one goes in half an hour. He says he doesn't want to leave. I take 30 seconds of silence to think and brace myself before I say something that's so un-like me. "We could get a place?" We're looking at each other with slight nervousness but excitement.
"I'm not a whore just because I'm making you pay for a hotel and we're sleeping in the same bed."
I did say that nothing would happen, and that it wasn't a hookup. I didn't want that. (Yes, I was an absolute idiot for suggesting this. I will never do this again).
I wonder how hard she tried to actually pay for the room
He goes onto his phone and books a hotel room. I want to pay my half but he won't let me. We finish up our drinks and leave to grab an Uber. We walk outside and he grabs my hand, leading us to the pickup.
Yes sweetie he paid for the hotel and got you drunk. He obviously poured all the drinks he bought for you down your throat. Just because you said, "Of course that's alright" to him paying for the wine doesn't mean its your fault for drinking it. Now you're self conscious because the hotel staff are looking at you an you feel like whore.
We get to the hotel and everyone can clearly see we are tipsy with no overnight bags. Panic starts to set in. I don't know this guy. He paid for the hotel, and to get me drunk. He wants sex. What the fuck. Do I go?
I'll text my dad to let him know and make sure he checks on me throughout the night. But if I don't have my phone near me, what good is that? Shit, my battery is on 20%. I'm fucked. I feel bad for wasting this guy's time if he just wanted sex and I keep asking myself if I made that clear before coming.
She's not comfortable with him kissing her just yet because obviously she's a good girl and having a stranger pay for a hotel isn't a sign that you want to have sex with him. Also, wtf TH. You never ask a woman permission to kiss her.
Then I look at him, take a deep breath and remember my defence skills (of which are shit). We get up to the hotel room and everything's very... Cosy. I sit on the edge of the bed to take my shoes off and he comes up to me and goes to lean down. "Is it bad that I really want to make out with you?" I quickly put a hand on his chest and push him backwards. "I'm really flattered. That's really lovely. But I'm not comfortable with that yet. In my own time, yeah?"
I'll give her the benefit of a doubt for this one but if her past dates were anything like this one I say she hamster-ed her way out of trying to seem like a whore. How can a guy force a woman to give him a blowjob if it isn't under the threat of violence?
I've been raped before. I say raped... Forced to give a guy a blowjob. Held by the head, sorta thing. I'm ready for this hotel room to be the worst decision of my life.
Good acting on TH's part. You either 1) Pullback when she initiates LMR until she re-approaches you or 2) Play it safe on the side of not getting a false rape charge.
He steps back. "Yeah, that's fine!" He goes to his side of the bed and starts talking about something else. I'm in shock that he's backed off.
Nice going TH. You're her gay best friend now. One of the girls.
I lay down on the bed next to him and we started talking about more things. Our guilty pleasures. Our TV tastes.
Yes sweetie. You're not like other girls. You're different. A nice girl who doesnt fuck strangers even after making them get a hotel.
He tells me I'm 'not like most girls'. I hate that saying because it puts other women down. I say that and he corrects himself. It's sweet. I want to see what 'most girls' look like on his Tinder... He's right. I'm not like any of them (not good or bad, just different).
More shitty orbiter crap
I'm hungry so we set off to find a place. I don't eat animal products and he's ridiculously chill to eat whatever food I want. We fail to find hot food as it's 1am by an airport. We settle for some crisps and a smoothie to help with the hangover. We get back and laugh more. We switch on the TV and QI is on, one of our favourites (a panel of usually intelligent comedians get together and answer quiz questions in hilarious ways).
Thanks for the free comedy, free drinks, and free hotel TH.
I thank him for being so respectful tonight. That I know what he might have thought would happen and how it's unusual for me to meet someone that'd be ok in this platonic situation.
*You feel he's hard?? Did you reach under the covers, stroke his dick a bit but then say, "Hey, I'm just making sure you dont get any ideas. This is platonic remember?"**
He snuggles closer. Puts an arm around me and pulls me in. It's comfy. I feel he's hard. He's stroking my leg. We're under the covers now, still fully clothed but I'm sure something is about to happen that I don't want.
I hear him start snoring. I laugh to myself. I ask if he's awake but he's out. I slowly turn down the TV til it's muted and switch it off. I roll out from under his arm, get comfortable and sleep. It was 3AM.
The morning comes and we cuddle to Come Dine With Me (people compete for a cash prize by being rated on their cooking). I tell him I need to get home because a friend is coming to mine for lunch. He tells me he wants to walk me to the station. We chat along the way, light and laughing. We go to say goodbye and I hug him. As I come back he kisses me twice and draws away. I tell him I'll let him know I'm home safe and he leaves.
You'll never see me again TH but let me get your mind working by flirting with you some more before I leave.
He knows I'm moving far away and that this can't go anywhere. He knew that before the date. I remind him on Whatsapp amongst flirty messages, and this is how it goes.
JH: I was only half hoping you'd put your entire life on hold for me. Me: Only half JH: Only half. I have no regrets
I hope you see this TH so you know you're such a nice guy
The funniest thing we have in common is that we both use this sub. He's a lurker. I hope he sees this. I have never felt safer with a complete stranger and though I was ridiculously irresponsible I will never forget the night I was taken back to a hotel room and only cuddled to sleep. If it weren't for this sub showing me how hard you guys are really trying to work us the fuck out, I don't think I would've said yes to going on this date!
In retrospect, I know what JH must have been expecting. I really respect him for not getting annoyed when I kept it platonic.
I hope you stayed til the end. I don't have many people in my life that I would want to tell this story to with the way it's written, so I came here.
Edit: things I have learnt from this sub and the date Fun guys make me do stupid things. I am so lucky that this will be a good memory.
Good guys exist. This should be common sense but it's hard to remember that sometimes.
Don't ghost guys. That's not very nice.
Girls do and say completely different things. I shouldn't under-estimate how much going to a hotel will send a more powerful message than, "This is not a hookup".
I should take chances on people I don't usually date more often.
A comedy night is a fabulous date idea.
I used to claim I didn't care about being wined and dined. I was wrong. Ugh
TLDR: AWALT, Bruffault's Law, and Beta Bucks in action
EDIT: I found the thread. It's still active on the seduction subreddit. Since I can't post links search for "the most unforgettable date with motivation from"
seduction/comments/6nrpxd/the_most_unforgettable_date_with_motivation_from/?st=J5A9LEUY&sh=70bdaf70
Y34rZer0 6y ago
Someone commented flaming her, and this dick stuck up for her with this load of crap: [–]reds_under_the_bed -4 points 5 days ago Mate fuck off. She was perfectly entitled to decide not to have sex with him. Did you not see the part where she said she had been raped before? I'm pretty sure preventing further trauma is more important than not "leading him on." It doesn't matter how much money he spent on her, she always has the right to withdraw consent. Her date actually seems like a decent human being who sees a date as an opportunity for two people to connect rather than a soulless and desperate fucking transaction with sex as the end goal.
I replied with this, but it doesn't go far enough imo: Preventing further trauma my ass, she only dropped out the fact she'd been 'raped' to justify her hesitation at suggesting he buys her a hotel room. If SHE's comfortable enough to SUGGEST it in the first place, then it's a massive double standard to demand that he must be more 'sensitive' than she is being about HER issue. She does certainly have the right to withdraw consent, but she never GAVE it, she's not that clear & is keeping him interested, like a squid jag. Basically, she's not sure of the ground because she's never been in this exact situation before - where the guy is basically doing whatever she tells him to and being grateful for a cuddle and a $300 hole in his pocket. It's more his fault than hers tho imo. Also there's animal products in thickshakes.
dutchgguy 6y ago
The guy did everything and got nothing. I wish girls didn't think like this.
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TheBloodEagleX 6y ago
It's sad because this dude probably thought it was one the best nights of his life and kept thinking about over and over days after and smiling. Yet, it's all just a game. It's difficult to take the pill.
[deleted] 6y ago
I've given out copies of The Rational Male to friends I know would be open to reading it. I would gladly send him a copy
Luckyluke23 6y ago
firstly on your post.
why the fuck did you make your comments above the part i am supposed to read. do it below.
onto her:
why the FUCK did she post it in the seddit subreddit. she went to the hotel and wouldn't bang because she didn't have an overnight bag and that made her look like a slut.
bro they are going to KILL you in the sub reddit for that.
[deleted] 6y ago
Will do. Next time I'll put my comments after the post paragraphs. Second, kill me or her in that subreddit?
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Luckyluke23 6y ago
her. why the fuck is she posting it there? to show what? how good was she at not giving the guy sex?
NabroleonBonaparte 6y ago
She wrote a field report on how she seduced the resources out of a man haha
TomahawkSuppository 6y ago
Lol, drinks, entertainment, snacks and a hotel room. Shit why not just offer to pay her rent while you are at it.
MustNotFfff 6y ago
Well, why not? He is a "good guy".
itsawomensworld 6y ago
I remember on a date I scored on. I paid for her drink then I paid for pool ( very cheap like $5) then we went for food and she said she'd pay but it was cash only and she didn't have.
Then we went to her car so she could drive me home ( she offered) and I joked want me to pay for your parking too!
Our next date she bought us $30 of drinks and we banged.
I really think you can screw up fairly equally paying or not paying. Spoiling a girl will make her hold.out for more and is bad strategy
Invalidity 6y ago
It's a probability game. While you may have had a positive outcome in your scenario, it is most likely not going to be that way. The best thing to do is split the bill because it puts both parties on a level playing field.
It also takes money out of the equation by making it neutral. A good way to weed out gold diggers is to propose that dates be split evenly. A gold digger is going to flake or try something sinister to get a free meal.
Throwfaraway1233 6y ago
a girls with gold digger tendencies who is into you doesn't give a fuck about money anymore, since she's into you
if you arent interesting anymore tho, they'll try to leave you with debts while banging some other dude who won't need to pay for shit
ayylma088 6y ago
Can you really say this in advance though? Like:
"oh btw I go dutch?"
suxxos 6y ago
What if you want to go to your favourite place, but the chick genuinely can't afford paying for her meal?
This is bound to happen often, especially if you date much younger girls. And I don't fancy going to McDonald's every time just because I date college girls.
massivewang 6y ago
I don't think it's a standard do or die kind of rule. I think the first date being drinks or something inexpensive is a good idea to figure out if she's going to be into you or is just trying to hustle you.
I live in Brazil for work, I was a virgin when I arrived here so basically I learned how to do all of this during my last five years in country. I always pay when I go out, mostly because:
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Fulp_Piction 6y ago
Illustrates LMR from a girls point of view.
Don't worry about what the hamster says, look at the actions:
My first thought was "she feels anxious immediately in the face of perceived social pressure and goes on the defensive from then on.", but maybe thats just the hamster too.
In any case, she creates the frame of 'I'm not a slut' to protect her ego, then rationalizes it in retrospect - reticular activation system anyone? She does this because a guy she just met spent a shit load of money on her and she feels guilty for not getting the tingles. Read the post again, knowing that she's still in that frame when she's writing it.
The big takeaway here is that attraction is non-negotiable. You can't get it for love nor money, it's just there for guys who know what they're doing.
[deleted] 6y ago
Stopped reading at "talked about robots taking over the world". This is typical girl redditor shit aka likely a hambeast and not applicable to anything in this sub
[deleted] 6y ago
Yeah I got a bit of a 'this didn't happen' vibe as well. 43% chance this was written by a hambeast masturbating to her fantasy of being a hottie who could pull this off.
[deleted] 6y ago
Really any post I see from someone on relationships, twox, askwomen/men, seduction, or any other sub I assume is coming from a complete loser.
Been around Reddit to know the average person on this site is a high performing incel. Explains the vigorous Bernie Sanders support.
enkae7317 6y ago
This is a true gem. People hear about girls taking advantage of guys all the time but this is a window into the inner workings.
I don't feel at all for the chode getting taken advantage of. Especially if he frequents seduction subreddit.
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 6y ago
Right about seddit. That place is a dump.
Luckyluke23 6y ago
to me i feel like he could have fucked.. up untill he passed out. though he just couldn't play the right cards to make it happen.
dr_warlock 6y ago
All mainstream dating spheres are filled with betas, women, and cucks. They even have female moderators for askMen.
Augustuscrassus 6y ago
I post to askmen frequently too. They are a lot more sensitive over there. Whenever I speak hard truth to them the downvotes rain on me like hellfire.
fromthecrypt8 6y ago
If anything I feel disdain for him
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 6y ago
I used to be that guy. I understand the disdain, but I empathise.
fromthecrypt8 6y ago
Same here. In many ways I am still not reformed.
OneRedSock 6y ago
Mission fucking accomplished. Pack it up, boys; we're going home. Dude got the "good guy" recognition; that oughta hold him for another 6 months without sex. He'll stumble on this thread and reaffirm: "I'm a good person; I did a good thing"; while simultaneously something deep in his gut is screaming: you failed.
Even a dog gets a fucking cookie for being a good boy; this dude got nothing but the old blue balls to go along with his blue pill.
Ainitux 6y ago
she did great. She played the game better than he did. She deserved the free stuff. Lesson for all of us. Don't be that guy, ever.
wsba910am 6y ago
she didn't play. everything happened for her. the guy actively choded himself. i've done it. we've all probably done it. but she wasn't playing a game. she has no game. even her narration describe a very passive mind constantly trying to rationalize decisions being made for it.
Ainitux 6y ago
You think that girls don't read shit? That girls don't go in with a game plan? Girls look up stuff just like we are " don't sleep with him on the first date" ..."let him pay" "don't be easy to get" it's all a game. Girls play it and she played it well. She got her needs met that didn't happen by accident. She learned that shit. Play it better. And most of all be aware of their tactic
[deleted] 6y ago
Except girls don't operate off of logic, they run off of emotion. Feelz before Realz.
I've never met a woman who could connect the dots herself. They're always all over the place.
She just wanted this guy to be man enough to Dick her down, but he was too worried about being a perfect gentleman/feminist to close the deal.
wsba910am 6y ago
i'm not saying girls don't play ... i'm saying this girl didn't play.
YouLoveThisBTW 6y ago
Ok, someone set me straight. What aspect of her behavior was immoral? She got her needs met, he got all but one met. She didn't lie cheat or steal. She told him it wasn't going to happen, he chose to be beta (repeatedly). She liked it (her nature).
His failure to create enough attraction to get laid is HIS. No?
[deleted] 6y ago
Her behavior wasn't immoral. AWALT man. Nothing she did crossed any ethical boundaries. In fact, it satisfied all her primal needs. Women seek protection in the form of goods and services that a man can provide. A man's primal need is the need to procreate. They both acted within their biologically implanted roles. Only difference is that she got what she wanted without giving him what he wanted. She came out on top.
The issue here is that she gave the him the repeated allusion that she was going to fuck him. From their initial texts on WhatsApp to texts after the date she continually flirted with the guy implying a more romantic relationship.
I don't think he could have done anything really. If they ended up having sex and she regretted it she could have reported him for rape and she would have all the evidence against him. Credit card statements that show he bought all the drinks, paid for the hotel and Uber, hotel cameras showing two drunk people (and we know under the law that drunk women can't give consent), and texts and verbal acknowledgment that they wouldn't have sex. He would have rotted in jail.
[deleted] 6y ago
In my mind this is no different than some guy acting like a friend hoping for sex to fall out.
He should have been Direct and clear with his intentions without saying them. Instead he played games and was taken for a ride, he got what he deserved. Nobody expects better from women, since they don't run off of logic but emotion.
jdjfkshwhifk 6y ago
Why get the hotel room? Her words sounded like banter to me because who would want to literally just sleep next to a stranger?
rmbarnes 6y ago
She wanted sex, deep down. The guy just has poor end game / LMR busting skills.
YouLoveThisBTW 6y ago
Comfort, validation, not wanting the night to end... it may sound super beta, but I can't say I'm totally against a platonic sleepover every once in a while. Sex isn't a mans only need.
[deleted] 6y ago
A platonic sleepover isn't worth spending $150+ a night in a hotel for though
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i4mn30 6y ago
He might as well have bent over and taken a dildo from her
kez88 6y ago
Very interesting read actually. I like hearing field reports from the womans point of view when they deal with betas. Gives good insight into the mind. Wish I could see the thread if she replies to any comments or anything.
It's always so interesting to me that they ALWAYS seem to know what the guy wants, and how they always seem to feel uncomfortable when he doesn't just admit to that
The-Peter-Principle 6y ago
Yes it was the guys whole "covert contract" approach that scuppered him.
Pays for her ticket Pays for wine. Wants to get her drunk - very sneaky tell Pays for her idea of a hotel!
Jesus, this screams to her - I'm trying to buy your obligation to bone me.
Instant kill for that "in the moment, it just happened" feelz IMO
harsha_hs 6y ago
This is legit post. Girls are so fickle minded and are GUARANTEED to flake at any moment. If you go all out paying for her stuff, it won't improve her probability of flaking. It doesn't mean she will flake if you pay upfront but it just that you never know
DaBumpkin 6y ago
"Hi dad. I'm went to a hotel room with some black guy I've never met before. Check in on me to make sure I don't get raped, OK?"
WTF is wrong with this bitch?
empatheticapathetic 6y ago
Well that bummed me out. Lesson to learn: KEEP INVESTMENT EQUAL. Don't go overboard paying for shit. Have boundaries. Respect yourself and your time.
Dammit op was what her username.
Edit: wow seddit is full of blue pill bullshit. Fuck that.
TunedtoPerfection 6y ago
2 to 5 ratio at the beginning. Remember women, especially attractive women, are so use to getting the whole night paid for that you need to make sure they know they are investing more then you.
If you just match them point for point in her mind you will have been investing more then her meaning she has higher SMV.
empatheticapathetic 6y ago
Obviously if you are counting point for point you have an issue, just doing whatever seems comfortable and reasonable should be sufficient.
The last date I went on me and the girl were doing rounds each. With a guy one guy doing two rounds in a row due to convenience is not a big deal, just play catchup later. With her, the moment I got two rounds in a row she seemed to have an existential crisis about who I was to her. Fucking psychotic.
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Andrea-Amilcare 6y ago
The girl wanted to get to fucked, she jumped through too many hoops to make me believe this was all coincidence.
The rest of her post was basically a verbalization of her ASD. JH obviously lacks experience with women, if he would have escalated on her properly to get her horny, he would have been balls deep in her cooch for the rest of the night.
itsawomensworld 6y ago
Solid post but briffaults law is garbage. It only exists if you value sex more than her being a dumb bitch and if you're unable to find another steady stream of women.
If you break that and you're either able to control yourself or you have good game then you control all the cards.
Women as you can see are good at getting lots of dick and controlling their urges. Briffaults law is who wants the other person more. It's often the horny guy who does, but it can be changed.
galtsays 6y ago
Betas make the worst poker players. This dude not only showed his hand to everyone at the table but also kept betting blindly just because he had money on his pocket.
If you want to play the game, know the game.
Also handle yourself like a business. So he invested in drinks, entertainment and a hotel room, and obviously his time. What does he get in return? Cuddles and a chit chat. This is not a good trade, but what would you expect from a guy who bets because he can, not because he thinks it's wise to do so.
[deleted] 6y ago
What's sad is that he probably considers this a good date in some corner of his mind.
I have a handful of girls that I have fucked around with on social media. I'm talking two beers +30 minutes and she's already sucking my dick.
Months later I'll see them posting pictures, spending time with other dudes they call their boyfriends. I feel kind of sorry for these guys seeing them put out so much effort, time, and money for these girls. One of them didn't even know me for more than 5 minutes before she was sending me nudes.
Never commit to these women, they put out like whores on the first date for the "right guy." Awalt.
RedPilledGodEmperor 6y ago
It's freaking crazy, when you see guys commit to women, who were sending you nudes before you even met them. It's crazy. And even women who look innocent are doing that kind of stuff. It's not just women who look "slutty"
Trooper_1868 6y ago
Just curious, do you all ask for nudes? is there a particular way? I have girls into me and we have fucked and hooked up, but no nudes ever. Not sure if there is a particular way to ask.
Metalageddon 6y ago
Huh. She's good.
He failed pretty hard, but she's good at her game.
Vanqhuix 6y ago
Thanks for this. I've always liked this kind of posts. There's usually something (sadly) that I can relate to, then I can learn, since it has been explained.
Women are (at least for me) a bitch to understand, but they all work the same way, so once you understand one, you understand all.
MattyAnon Admin 6y ago
This is weird that she goes into a hotel room and then spends the entire date convinced she's about to get raped.
The one takeaway here is to give her more false time constraints and more "no sex tonight" comments. You have to start her from a position of "man is the prize" even while escalating.
"I can only talk for a minute" / "Maybe we can spend some time together, but I have to be home soon" / "I have an early start, but maybe you're worth it" / "We can get a hotel, but no funny business".
Without the pull, she will be the one applying all the brakes and feeling like rape is imminent.
Oh, and don't pay for so much - it's HER investment that triggers her interest, not yours.
[deleted] 6y ago
I think it's clear that emotionally she was ready to be fucked by a man.
Unfortunately this guy kept displaying beta like Behavior throughout the night. Emotionally she kept giving this guy opportunities to correct his behavior, sadly he didn't measure up by the end of the night.
Biologically speaking her body was screaming at her that this guy was weak and that any sexual interaction from here on would simply be rape.
It's funny, because it looks a lot like her stepping in front of a car while saying to herself she doesn't want to get hit. Yet time and again she stepped in front of that car despite all of the misses.
Conclusion? What she thought she wanted and what she felt she wanted were two different things this night in question. Nobody would keep stepping in front of a car unless, deep down, they wanted to get hit. She wanted to see how far she could get on the tightrope. It was exciting to be on the edge.
MattyAnon Admin 6y ago
this is a great interpretation
nzgs 6y ago
That's exactly how I interpreted it.
ECoast_Man 6y ago
I'm not as harsh as the rest of you on the guy here.
Yeah, he texted a tad much in the beginning, but I have done that occasionally if I get a certain vibe. Yeah, he spent too much on the date but the comedy show is a good touch. The alcohol isn't that far off. He should have went round for round, but I don't see this as terribly fatal. The hotel, it was her fucking suggestion. I would also have interpreted that as an invitation for sex. I would also have paid if I gave a shit enough. No one splits a hotel with a ONS, it's the cost of doing business really if that's the game you're going to run. I guess he could have tried harder on the LMR but even giving extreme leeway for post-hamstering by this girl, this does seem like she wasn't going to do anything.
Give the guy a break, he spent too much, was a bit beta-y, but this isn't a terrible failure (aside from the credit card charges). I've failed harder than this...
The chick is what bothers me. Fuck she sounds annoying, and this fuckin' diary entry like she's writing a fucking blog and posting it on seddit screams of HUGE amounts of self-absorption. Who fuckin' cares what this bitch thinks.
The whole "we could get a room" and not putting out, the "puts other women down" crap. Makes me sick reading it. Let alone the annoying "I don't eat animal products" while they're out walking around at 1 am. This dude's probably starved and can't the streetmeat or whatever he had in mind. The self-absorption with "ethical dietary restrictions" drives me to no end because you have no concept that everyone else has to accommodate your stupid shit.
All of this is of course in addition to the obvious points of 1) WTF are you doing on a dating app if you're leaving in two weeks and you don't plan on putting out - you're not making fuckin' friends; and 2) the giving into her beta bux natural instincts of letting this dude shell out a ton of cash.
I'm not normally one to criticize chicks for acting like chicks, but this one fucking bothers me for some reason. I think it's the blog writing shit where she presumes apparently everyone cares about her boring life.
[deleted] 6y ago
She's a stupid bitch and he should have kicked her ass out of the hotel room he bought when she wouldn't fuck
tempintheeastbay 6y ago
STRONGLY agree. Something sounds so intensely self-obsessed, narcissistic, and preening in this post - I think partly because she's clearly sharing this story to try and make herself seem desirable. She's taking clear pride in this guy's attraction to her, and extracting ego points from his devotion.
I also feel like I really, really, really know this type of guy, solely from his texts. There's something so universally sad & painfully lame and familiar about lines like "Then you'd only have bittersweet memories." or "I have no regrets"
pm_me_the_best_tits 6y ago
he's a lurker of seddit so probably a reformed edgelord
Auvergnat 6y ago
Dude has not a fucking clue how to deal with LMR. Is that not basic knowledge on seddit?
MustNotFfff 6y ago
He just didn't feel like RAPING her. She said she wasn't comfortable with making out. He didn't want to tongue-rape her.
7thAnvil 6y ago
There is one place this girl did something fucked up: When she brought up being 'raped' in the past after they were alone and getting comfy in the hotel room. I've been in similar situations in the past (i.e. ended up in hotel room or other private place shortly after meeting a woman). I always passed the last minute resistance tests and got the lays. I put them at ease by always stating things like "nothing will happen that you don't want to happen", "relax baby, I don't force myself on girls, it's not my style", etc. Nevertheless, I really don't know how I would have handled her bringing up the R word. I think I would have backed off and then very slowly escalated again while carefully observing her response. However, bringing up the R word very well might spook me to the point I just say fuck it. At the very least it kills the mood. Total bitch move. If she truly regretted finding herself in that position she had a moral obligation to resort to explicit communication and apologize, pay for half the room, and then bail. I'd actually respect that much more than fucking with me by bringing up the R word.
[deleted] 6y ago
Maybe let her come to you if she brings that up. Idk maybe call everything off and get on the phone with some.other girl and if she doesn't want it then it's good whichever way because 1. If she refuses, you're on the phone with another plate 2. you moved on without being clingy/orbiter 3. you avoided rape allegations
JmunE204 6y ago
If she said that she had been raped by being "forced" to give a blowjob I would've RAN out the door in fear that she might mis-remember our encounter.
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Luckyluke23 6y ago
yeah i had a problem with that too... at that point i'm thinking... well i did just get the room. may as well ditch her and go find someone else in the city.
Hey_You_Asked 6y ago
She's not doing anything to you by bringing up the R word lmao. And it definitely doesn't make her a bitch. She's being REAL with you. She's sharing something. Vulnerability brings us closer, and while that may not be something you want, you better be prepared to respect it. Slowly escalating is the right move if the space is there for it. Fuck your attitude though.
[deleted] 6y ago
Good note! If a woman ever brings up rape from her past it's best to just cut your losses. Don't risk it
Potomato 6y ago
yeah had a woman tell me she got raped when she was younger, so she really had to trust someone this is after multiple times sleeping in her bed with her in a house alone, everytime i tried to get some she put that evil on me. i could never figure that woman out.
[deleted] 6y ago
She's a stupid bitch. Probably never raped. Figured it out for you.
dr_warlock 6y ago
Women that have been raped don't discuss that with strangers. If she does, the story was fictional or it was regret sex. All rape stories are false until proven otherwise. Women ruined it for themselves.
pm_me_the_best_tits 6y ago
the term rape is completely subjective to women these days, it can mean anything from forced penetration at gun point to having sex with a guy that their sort of into but not really feeling it.
a girl i dated told me she was raped, then it was "well i must of been raped because someone spiked my drink"... turns out she just got drunk and passed out in the club toilets.
Docbear64 6y ago
A former friend of mine once explained to me how her ex boyfriend "raped" her . She didn't like being woken up in the morning with sex. She told him this , he fucked her awake some morning after this discussion. This woman was going to be giving a speech at a college on surviving rape and being an empowered woman.
She explained this to me casually over the phone . it wasn't like some deep traumatizing moment she was opening up to me about it was more like a quick fact she wanted to share with me. The more I think about it the more my mind is blown .
The person you invited over to sleep in your bed , were willingly in a relationship with "raped" you by having sex with you too early in the morning? Fascinating.
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Phoenixtorment 6y ago
I can guarantee you that this:
Is a complete lie.
Purpose? To deny you. It is the ultimate cuck. This is NOT LMR.
It was already set in stone for her that she had 0 sexual attraction towards him and he entered the friend zone and wanted a beta cuddle provider boy for the evening. That's why she told him, there is no other purpose for as why she told him that. She would NEVER tell him that if she wanted him.
I have witnessed it myself as well.
Augustuscrassus 6y ago
Dude, LMR, ASD, fuck that shit. If she is at all hesitant peace the fuck out. I have had girls who's clothes came right off and girls who gave me that I don't really know. If a girl wants to fuck you, you'll be balls deep in her so fast it'll make your head spin.
I'd rather have blue balls than risk a rape accusation again.
BluepillProfessor 6y ago
Disagree. She was plenty attracted. She planned to fuck him when he got the room and she would have had he played his cards right. He didn't.
I am not sure. Girls will tell DNGAF Alpha sluts all kinds of sluttery and bullshit. The men shrug the shoulders and say "OK." I think the "I have been raped" comment is a common Shit Test early in the seduction but I agree throwing it out after you get a Hotel was a brutal Shit Test and possibly over the line but most Alpha dudes trying to fuck her would not have been deterred.
Phoenixtorment 6y ago
What were the attraction signs then, apart from going to hotel?
Clearly this guy was not.
wsba910am 6y ago
i would probably just leave; that or turn on my phone recorder subtly
empatheticapathetic 6y ago
Bro...RAPE. Once the word rape is uttered, you start planning a safe exit.
wsba910am 6y ago
kind of exactly my thuoghts, i left it open ended to see what the rest of the community thought
SilverGryphon 6y ago
It was a bit hard for me to read, I mean your English is good, its the story that made me really fucking angry. That guy is an absolute idiot. I would have tried to kiss her at the bar and if she tried to bullshit me, poof I'm gone.
If a girl is really into you she will try to kiss you/want to be kissed soon enough.
Docbear64 6y ago
This has further cemented for me why taking control is so important on a date or particularly when approaching sex, there are so many points in this where it seems like she is teetering on the edge of making a " bad decision" and because the guy doesn't capitalize on those moments he didn't get laid . It doesn't even sound like she was opposed to fucking she just was being a woman and was maintaining her Plausible deniability and ASD. It almost sounds like when dude fell asleep she was hoping her would bury his cock in her but NOPE that was the last strike.
Good post , It boggles my mind how well women can put themselves in sexual situations then deny any sexual intent but this post demonstrates it perfectly it's almost like she can't connect the dots herself , she needs the dude to push or else fucking won't happen .... and because the dude didn't push fucking didn't happen .
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ADeadDawg 6y ago
Never brought a chick back to a hotel and DIDN'T bang.. Solid post OP
[deleted] 6y ago
She ended up deleting her account after she got destroyed by redditors there
PM_ME_UR_TECHNO_GRRL 6y ago
Which is a shame. It is not her fault.
I used to be that BB - not to the extent of paying for hotel and getting no action, but still - that guy is at fault, 100%.
It hurts to read.
DevilMayCry 6y ago
Could you elaborate a little bit more about why she deleted her account?
grandaddychimp 6y ago
They're woman hating misogynistic blue pillers because what she did was just AWALT. It's the guys fault entirely that she didn't fuck him
fromthecrypt8 6y ago
Thank God, because I'm boiling right now, albeit mostly because of the beta bux who let her do this.
itsawomensworld 6y ago
He did it to himself really. She just watched a man step on rake after rake.
Augustuscrassus 6y ago
Honestly the paying for her shit all night was retarded. I've watched a girl drop $40 bucks on me for breakfast even though I offered to pay. You could say she was just trying to make sure she didn't owe me anything, but fuck it thanks for the food. If someone wants to pay who gives a fuck what their motivations are, let the dumbass pay.
Secondly, I think TH did the right thing in the hotel. The whole thing screamed false rape, and even admitted a dude "forced" her to give him a bj (bitch I've held the head of every girl who's sucked my dick what you mean forced?). I don't advocate trying to push past ASD, it can end with your life ruined. If a girl wants to fuck you, she will without hesitation.
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suxxos 6y ago
Oh, I don't know, I actually think it is possible.
Happened to me once. Admittedly, I didn't pay for the hotel or meal or drinks (it was covered by my employer, I was on a business trip). Anyway, I spent a really nice evening with a girl I met a couple of times earlier, we had great rapport and even some kino, initialized by her as much as by me. We didn't kiss, as the bar we were hanging out at didn't offer enough privacy, but when it was closing, I asked her to come to my hotel to talk some more, and she said yes.
Once we get to the hotel I try very gently to undress her, but she is all like "but you said you wanted to talk?", we end up sitting next to each other, I hug her and she doesn't protest, but flatly refuses to undress or kiss. In the end, after maybe 5 minutes, she stands out, gives me a kiss on a cheeck, says she likes me, but she thought I just wanted to talk, and she leaves.
If there is any way I could have persuaded her to have sex without actually raping her, please tell me. Some girls, when they are really young and/or inexperienced, can be very naive. And you have to remember girls generally tend to have lower sexdrive than guys, some of them genuinely don't take it for granted that being nice=attracted to.
Just as a postscript, we are good friends now (not a friendzone; actually, if anyone is friendzoned it's her, as I asked her for help a couple of times, usually small translations and getting contacts, and she never refused, while she never even once asked me for anything).
PreOrgasmGroanLness 6y ago
Really wanna know as well what happened
Andrea-Amilcare 6y ago
Yes, if you would have told her, straight up, at the bar, that you wanted to have sex with her you never would have ended up in that situation in the first place. While the implication of going to a hotel should be clear for all, some women are actually that dim about those kind of things.
I never encounter LMR because I have put sex on the table BEFORE heading out to my place or her's. This issue exists because of bullshit concepts in the pick up community about 'seeding food' or suggesting an 'after party'. You suddenly get to your place, there's nobody there but the two of you's and you whip out your cock and she's completely bamboozled and confused about the whole thing.
Back to your scenario, what you should have done at the bar is isolate her to try and get that kiss. Ask her to come outside for some fresh air or a smoke and then go for the kiss. If she's not down, well she's not down, no harm no foul, move on to another chick. If she is down then escalate accordingly and tell her you want to spend the night with her. No ambiguity no nothing, straight to the point. If she says yes, you will be fucking her. No LMR, no bullshit.
suxxos 6y ago
I kind of tried, as a matter of fact. She stopped me by saying there were too many people who know us (admittedly, if anything happened, it would have started awful rumours that we both were keen to avoid).
Apart from that, thanks for the advice. I tried to mention sexual topics a couple of times during the evening, not as openly as you suggest, but in a way my intentions would be obvious, yet she very skillfully steered the conversation to more neutral topics. I was too tipsy to recognize it at the time, plus I thought maybe she was just being shy. My bad.
LibertyIsNotFree 6y ago
And there you have it.
You ignored the cards on the board and thought you were going to runner runner gut shot straight.
MuhammadDinduNuffin 6y ago
What girl goes up to a hotel room to talk? Dollars to donuts she's never ever done that before. 10/10 times she's DTF.
You just botched the kino. Should have kissed her outside the hotel room door as you are about to open it, so there's no misinterpreting what's going to happen once inside.
Her saying "I thought we were gonna talk" is not her saying no, or resisting. She's shit testing you. You should have laughed it off or ignored it. Put her hand on your dick. Told her to get naked. If she says no, fair enough. I didn't see that anywhere in your story.
Again, kino being escalated instead out of nowhere would have avoided the feigned surprise shit test. Getting the iron hotter before you strike
suxxos 6y ago
Told her five or six times, she said no repeatedly.
MuhammadDinduNuffin 6y ago
If she said no no and no, then wtf bro? Not cool
Very glaring omission of facts.
[deleted] 6y ago
Fart in her face and kick her ass out.
FieldLine 6y ago
I have mixed feelings about this story. On the one hand, she's a bit of a cunt for leading him on, it's clear that the expectation is that they're going to have sex at the end of the night. A girl doesn't go back to a guy's room if she knows flat out that she's not interested in sleeping with him and there's nothing he can do to change that. That's how real rape happens. I'm not pointing fingers, and I'm not justifying rape, it really is a terrible thing, but as a practical matter, that's how women get raped.
On the other hand, I'm not virtue signaling when I say that a woman should and does have the right to say no at any time. So that she led him on doesn't change the fact that he failed to generate enough attraction and that they didn't have sex is on him.
In any case, out of everything in the story, this is what irks the hell out of me:
This is a classic example of what I was saying the other day. Just take the fucking compliment. Women just can't let it sit on the table, they have to give a guy a hard time for every little thing they can.
BluepillProfessor 6y ago
You should see what they do when they are married and not attracted.
Docbear64 6y ago
I see it differently I see this as way for her to see how easily she can challenge and manipulate him . He compliments her and then apologizes for the compliment because she tells him too and despite understanding how he intended that. It's absolutely allowing yourself to fall into woman logic .
In my experience it's those little moments where even a slight standing your ground indicates some level of backbone that keeps them interested. something as simple as " Well that's how I feel no disrespect to the other women " expresses he knew what he was saying , he meant what he was saying, and she instead needed to fall into his frame on something so small but with subtle implications ....... Or I think too fucking much .
It just begs the question to me , how much of doormat are you when she can make you apologize for a truly harmless non-sexualized compliment?
GroundhogLiberator 6y ago
Here's what I used to do when I used to take girls on dates: when you're done eating, grab the waiter and ask for the check. Then keep an eye on him until you see that he's on the way back. Then excuse yourself and go to the bathroom. That gives her a few minutes to be alone with the check. I found that maybe 20% of the time, she paid it.
obviously your mileage may vary, but it's a chance to save a few bucks, even if the odds aren't great.
301niko 6y ago
That's the shit I like to hear.
nzgs 6y ago
I just casually put up my half on the table in cash. No point playing mind games and shit. But I've never had a date that didn't offer to split. Some guys work themselves into such mental gymnastics over the bill when in reality it's only a dilemma for beta bucks. If a girl is into you sexually she will split no question.
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harsha_hs 6y ago
You're better off by asking to split at the beginning or rotating paying for rounds. Assume you're her acquaintance if you've not slept with her. Its totally cool to split bills with acquaintances. You'll come off as legit person in her mind, then in next date you'll escalate. 50/50 chance that she will resist, it is based on your attraction and other lot of complex factors. But the thing is, you lost nothing
beta_no_mo 6y ago
Exactly. Only chumps have to duck out in hopes that she pays.
I usually jokingly say "you got this?" when we get somewhere. If she agrees, great. If not, I'll say "nah I'm just fucking with you", usually followed by a look of relief by her and then I immediately say "we'll split it".
I've never had a woman outright refuse to split the check when done this way. Some are happy to split and some are reluctant or give shit tests about "how you were raised", but none have refused and I'd leave immediately if they did.
harsha_hs 6y ago
This is very accurate. Use it with guy friends too. This makes them happy for actually splitting the cheque.
[deleted] 6y ago
I'm trying to find the topic but having no luck.
[deleted] 6y ago
It was deleted after she got mostly negative comments. Couldn't take the criticism
[deleted] 6y ago
Thanks for bringing it here then.
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[deleted] 6y ago
More like: He tells me ' I'm not like most girls.'
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ap426 6y ago
Where do you read about AWALT, Bruffaults Law etc?
prodigy2throw 6y ago
You're obsession with him paying is very weird.
[deleted] 6y ago
Paying equals validation.
A woman's currency is validation. If he gives her validation for free, then she has gotten what she wants from the transaction.
Women trade sex for validation. If he gives it away for free, he has nothing left to bargain with.
prodigy2throw 6y ago
If he has status and value he has that going for him. Women will do whatever it takes to lock down those men. A couple dollars spent here and there don't mean anything. But yes like I said before. If you need to spend money to get pussy you're doing it wrong.
[deleted] 6y ago
It was obvious that this gentleman's smv was not high enough to secure this easy lay.
I get what you're saying, but the smv disparity needs to be ridiculously large in the man's favor before he can just throw around money without any return.
But chances are if that were the case, the woman in question would be sucking you off in the car before you even pulled into the parking lot of the restaurant, so it's a moot point.
In the first date scenario, a man needs to establish his high smv before he can start playing with money like it's Monopoly night.
kez88 6y ago
It's not. Women view 'he paid' like a guy would tell his mates about her sending him nudes or her fucking him or something. Actions that show a man gives time/resources to a woman indicate she is wanted, which is important she shows other people because its validating her.
prodigy2throw 6y ago
I used to feel that way. Then I made money and stopped giving a fuck so long as they giving the pussy up we Gucci
kez88 6y ago
but they don't give up the pussy when you pay, thats the point. Paying is stupid. Not because you're losing money (though that sucks too) but because women have no desire or need to put out when you pay, it signals all the wrong things to her.
edit For expensive things, paying for a drink or coffee or 20 buck tickets is different. Cheap things that you do to organise the date they'll probably expect you to pay for, which im okay with if its less than ~20 bucks or so
prodigy2throw 6y ago
They do. There's ways of doing things. This guy didn't do it right. You'll grow out of this phase.
Overall though yes. Paying is never a great thing but paying doesn't automatically make you a pussy.
kez88 6y ago
rofl don't patronise me by claiming i'll grow out of a phase. Paying for expensive things on a first date generally not a good idea. and like I said, if its cheap then go ahead. Don't claim you know everything or know every one of my points or arguments or thoughts, its stupid
[deleted] 6y ago
He's talking about a feast or famine scenario. Where you either give out no money or absolutely drown them in money.
Seeing as option two is reserved for rich beta celebrities or trust fund children, it's better to exercise discipline by not paying for women without getting what you want first from the interaction.
The op of this comment chain is a retard. You're right in your assessment. Only pay for a light dinner if she's sucking you off under the table. Otherwise it's dutch all the way.
prodigy2throw 6y ago
Do you man. Not saying you're wrong. Just saying paying for the shit was the least of this guys fuckups.
BluepillProfessor 6y ago
Well I am saying you are wrong. Paying for all that shit showed him to be needy and pathetic. Desperate try hards don't get laid. Not paying was a big part of his fuckups and would have put him in a better mind set (which I believe is your point- that his fuckup was in the attitude not the cash).