I kind of enjoy Bar Bar's and JTO's perspective on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjJrNkp4dCo

I didn't even know that this was happening until I saw the prison planet video on Roosh's perversion for profit take on TRP. To me yeah the concept has some selling points, but it's bane is it thinks that it can take the culture back from eroding itself when that is twenty years way too late. The fact that he's burning bridges with allies he's known for years in establishing a cult of profitability/personality is more damaging to the the red pill philosophy than any feminist on redit or in the MSM. Remember men that all successful movements if there's no central control have a greater chance of perversion and erosion. Roosh is laughing all the way to the bank while he doesn't realize the damage done here.

Also to say that you single handedly constructed the socio-sexual hierarchy is just fucking absurd.

Never liked him. Always seemed like he was just regurgitating shit from other people for the cash.

To be honest, I typically see more posts about "how to get women to have sex with you," rather than, "how to build strong/healthy relationships." Maybe there are some guys who are happy fucking one million different girls, but as for myself (before I simply gave up on the idea a few years ago) I've always been for the latter, whether or not it's even possible in the age of the spoiled-hypergamous-child. So yes, I agree that, at least as far as reddit is concerned, TRP is inextricably tied up with PUA culture.

Anti dump machine's post are legendary - the fact that roosh is insinuating that those ideas are his are baffling. Maybe he's having a mental breakdown?

Thanks Roosh for coming out saying what has been evident for while, which is that TRP went from a male/female social dynamic centered philosophy to a PUA one. Now its competitng with PUA commercially when it was never intended for that purpose. Hopefully this moves the TRP back to its roots

Jesus Roosh is 100% correct his criticisms of leddit TRP is accurate.

Roosh is just Buzzfeed for the manosphere - some comedy gold, mostly shit, too many lists.

Honestly, I'm not even sure that he believes it himself. There's got to be a bit of exaggeration in there.

He's taken far too seriously by both sides.

what about this http://therationalmale.com/2015/05/12/the-dangers-of-the-red-pill/

Folks on Sosuave.net were talking about that stuff back in 1998-2004. Anti-Dump, Pook, and others were talking about all the same things. Many of the "ideas" Roosh espouses are lifted from them. Even alot of the terminology. He's not the "father" of anything. Just part of it. He doesn't even give credit where credit is due.

True, but then Red Pill is rooted in PUA stuff like David D'Angelo's "Deep Inner Game", and Mens Rights Activism, neither of which is spoken of much. And the term itself as applied came from a libertarian website via the article "Game is the Red Pill", but Keoni is a bit too conspiratorial it seems to be mentioned much...

Point is, there's lots of history and interweaving behind this stuff. Roosh might not have been aware of MrM! or MenZ magazines either (nor may you be), but both magazines got over a million views per issue, long before this reddit existed, and probably played a part in certain bloggers traffic over that time. The StandyourGround forums were active around SoSauve's heyday, and even then there was cross pollination, so SYG could legitimately also be called part of the genesis.

Actually, when you look at how complex the creation of the Manosphere really was, it's amazing it exists at all, but not surprising that - like the Spanish Inquisition - no one expected it, thus, no one planned that far ahead.

ROK was great until this past year...now it's just filled with stupid clickbait articles and shit.

Roosh V is terrible with women ....PUA is a scam and now he's trying to hijack MGTOW/ Red Pill theories.... dont listen to him improve your LMS

LOOKS MONEY STATUS>

They hold firmly and obsessively onto rigid dogmas such as the alpha/beta male dichotomy to explain all male behavior while basing their “truths” upon a shaky foundation of pop evolution. Because it has no council of elders to guide the ideology, it is now being steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill.

I kind of agree with this. There is no quality control so any idiot can toss some shit up explaining what it means to be "red pill." And about 75% is utterly retarded horseshit meant to assuage whatever insecurities the author himself is harboring. And like any dogmatic ideology the misguided masses viciously attack anybody who even slightly disagrees with them.

Interestingly, this entire thread is just ad homimen attacks on Roosh as to why he is doing this, but nobody is addressing his actual criticisms. Interesting...

Sounds like a bit of a tool though one thing stuck out to me "steered by the mob and watered down—or outright trolled—by entryists who are blue pill." On some level, don't we think there's even a modicum of truth in this assertion?

He's correct to an extent, but this is just the natural evolution of such things. Before RP we had the fledgling PUA movement, which had its notable "elder council" of Mystery, Style, Tyler, etc.

But then it got flooded, every recovering beta and his woman were talking about c shaped smiles, and places like sosuave started to become a thing of the past. Enter the red pill.

This built on the prior movement and guys like Roissy, Roosh and Rollo became the faces of this movement and have been for quite some time. Expansion was inevitable. Now there are countless manosphere blogs and it has branched off into MGTOW, PUA purists, and the red pill means vastly different things to different people. The founders are losing their grip. Heartiste's posts and comment section resembles /pol/ from 4chan and Roosh's pet RoK us just click bait for new RP'ers stuck in the anger phase.

He's right that a change is on the horizon, but it can't be forced. Something greater will evolve out of RP, but it will likely be mostly new faces leading the charge. But trying to rebrand the existing information then rehash it to profit is not the way it will happen

There needs to be a "council of elders" to guide nature? He obviously doesn't under TRP.

RooshV is monetizing TRP. So in order to make people pay for his "better" advice he has to piss on the competition.

I don't know about you guys but when I read stuff like Heartiste, I think - this is good. This is very good. It is not grandiose, "look at me" writing. It is just great concepts laid out in a very well written way.

When I see articles by guys like Roosh I cringe because I know he can't deliver in person. It's just too over the top.

Tyler stole from Mystery. Even the term "social dynamics" first appeared in Mystery's book. Tyler's company is entirely based on stuff he didn't invent. But he took it to levels that Mystery couldn't have. Many men profited from that, there's no denying it.

Zuckerberg stole the idea of a social website, but his version was a million times better than the original and he took it to a level the inventors never would have.

Don't be envious beta bitches but because Roosh's methods may appear unjust. He's seeing an opportunity, why wouldn't he take it? If he didn't, wouldn't he be a fake?

There is no putting a lid on this information. We'll have to get enlightened and stop believing in the fiction of property over ideas at some point anyway. We should appreciate this for the good it's going to do for future men and women. Just play your part and enjoy.

This sub isn't just competition, it's free competition. No ads, no click bait, a far greater pool of writers passing along their experiences. When there's money involved, a monopoly is the end goal.

People [him] fear losing control and fanbase as it translates into losing power and possible income. It's not complicated.

Never liked his blog anyways. Articles come across as either clickbait or juvenile crap written by angry teenagers.

I grew up in the south and come from a family of hunters. My father and older brothers and everyone in my neck of the woods has been using alpha male and beta male terminology since before the internet.

The behavior is so common and noticeable in wild animals that it's well known among hunters and easy to see such a "pecking order" in humans too.

Roosh deserves huge credit for reviewing Culture of Critique and exposing the tribe and their machinations.

They have the power to destroy him--not just financially--which tells me that he's not as self-serving as everyone here thinks he is.

That, however, doesn't justify his autistic performance on Oz. Good writer, good marketer, terrible speaker off-the-cuff.

Roosh is also throwing MGTOW under the bus too. Sandman's retort is that neomasculinity is gynocentric.

I'm kinda glad he's being distanced from TRP. He has some good insight but he seems a bit Ann Coulter in his marketing strategy

He was always a beta PUA who, once he got some pussy, decided to try monetize every tip anyone in the community ever shared. All he ever actually did is talking shit other people usually don't talk about with his insecure voice / fake body language, while not trying to hide behind a keyboard.

I have 0 respect for him as a man, especially now that he's trying to sell TRP theories under his own brand. Admins here should ban the keyword in this forum or auto-link it to a page which explains how "neomasculinity" is just an attempt of monetizing TRP. And optimize that page to do better on Google than Roosh's shit.

And yes, as /u/BurgundyCarpet pointed out, it's not even worth talking about it. This is just another Machiavellian move we all fell for. I wonder how many visits his websites / videos will get from this post alone.

I have a lot of respect for Roosh. He's been one of the founding pillars of the Red Pill, so it pains me to think he's beginning to follow the same script as Tucker Max.

He can't sell international lay guides forever, he's got to reinvent himself to remain marketable and sadly that will probably mean selling out TRP to do so. He'll make a ton of money by being the manosphere whipping boy in the MSM, collect the check, and go the way of D'Angelo.

What else is he going to do? Go back to biochemistry in Washington DC?

Considering I gave up on Roosh ages ago as being a burnt out clickbait shill, I can't say i'm too saddened.

His point about things getting watered down is valid, but I'm surprised that he would choose to strike at TRP. He helped create this after all, and his articles and books are pretty well thought of around here.

It could be a money issue, or it could be frustration with the sub's "watering down". I think we have a pretty good foundation of "elders" like Rollo, IllimitableMen, and the mods who do a great job around here.

A council of Elders of which Roosh is one? Hahahaha yeah okay, way to be transparent about your motives you goddamn faggot.

TRP does not need Roosh. He continually says very inflammatory stuff, and is not a good spokesman for TRP in my opinion.

Oh look, the classic game of putting another down to elevate oneself up instead of constantly delivering value that people see and doing your thing in a DGAF manner. "I am a confirmed alpha and I spin 1000 plates".

Please.

Why must TRP and the ideas here be considered a movement? To me this place is where men come to open their eyes to reality. Why must we label ourselves as "neomasculine" or worship idols like Roosh wants himself to be. Just be a fucking man, no need to act cultish about it.

Is anyone surprised? Money talks. If TRP paid him to praise TRP he would.

I see this as a message. "I've helped you create something, and now I'm cashing in on it"

If you look at it without emotion, like you would as a stranger looking in, this is what you see.

I think he nailed it. I utilize some basic advice from this sub but have to ignore the massive amounts of hateful ignorance as well.

I'm going to guess this is his main objection:

non-commercial version

As soon as I read this, all I could think of was spicoli during the interview commenting about the other surfers, "those guys are fags". Roosh is trying to be AMOG, ain't gonna happen buddy.

Is this where we vote for the Council of Eldors?

"The Elders came from an earlier period in Eternian history and were members of King Grayskull court who ruled his kingdom from Castle Grayskull. They were present in the era when their King fought against the evil Snake Men and later the Evil Horde."

This is disappointing.

Recall the Marxists radicals and the feminists won and took over the society because they maintained unity and a singular goal. Faced with that resolve, every man for himself isn't going to cut it beyond a fringe movement.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt after the Dr. Oz fiasco, but this right here is where I draw the line.

I remember reading his pieces on Neomasculinity when they first came out and thinking, "so it's basically TRP." Every principle from his Neomasculinity movement I first read about here at TRP. And now he's trying to throw us under the bus? That's some shady, hypocritical bullshit Roosh.

He tries to dismiss us as being too focused on sex, which is a blatant lie -- most of the posts here aren't directly related to male-female sexual dynamics at all. Most of the posts are actually about how the world around us works and how to use this knowledge to our advantage.

Return of Kings is officially off my reading list. I prefer the top contributors on this subreddit to the writers on ROK anyway.

He most certainly sees as competition. Anyone remember his failed attempt at making a rival sub? TRP is here to stay. Wehter it's on reddit or another host remains to be seen, but we, as a cultural movement, are here to stay. Men are waking up to the truth that things aren't what they were promised as kids and nothing is going to change that.

TRP is not a movement or a single ideology, it's just a discussion forum. As far as I'm concerned, the more people discrediting TRP the better. If TRP was mainstream, RP knowledge would no longer be advantageous.

I have a feeling that Roosh is just remarketing himself after being destroyed on the Dr Oz show. He realizes he needs to tone himself down in order to appeal to a wider viewership. Similar to Mark Manson.

Remember fellas to divide and conquer is the art of war. Everbody essentially is trying to do the same things: give men a fighting chance. Not just with women, but in life as well.

This paragraph located at the end of the article is all you need to read:

You're Invited To My 2015 World Tour

Join other likeminded men in your city and attend my 2015 world tour. Starting in late June, I will be visiting Berlin, London, Washington DC, New York City, Montreal, and Toronto. Each city will have a 4-hour event that includes a speech by me, a Q&A, and also a meet & greet.

For full details on what's in the speech, the dates, and how to reserve your seat, visit Roosh World Tour.