many people talk shit about scooby, but the guy is in serious shape at his age and isn't a youtuber who is taking time off from injuries.

Great post GLO.

I had this issue. Growing up I was a sit on my ass and play video games type kid, so those basic movement patterns were never built up. Jumped into a compound lifting routine 5x5 style and got some slight knee pain, nagging shoulder issue etc. (thankfully tore nothing).

Went to Physical Therapist and he said i injured my right ankle as a kid on the right side so it totally fucked up the entire right side of my body. My left side works a lot harder than my right (wierd as fuck)

Recommendation on programs to follow (because most of us are not experts at programming)

Sign up for one month of joe defrancos Defranco insider (20 bucks). Download his mobility videos and programs (they are nicely put together in pdf format).

Program i'm currently following is called STEALTH from his website this guy has trained NFL athletes, average joes and his business partner Smitty Diesel also is an expert coach. (I'm not affiliated). The STEALTH program is meant to restore movement patterns and they recommend the 8 week program be done atleast 2x a year. My .02 cents. Good Luck everyone and lets stay away from Snap City.

The only thing I regret is starting starting strength and bulging a disc due to unknown hip alignment problems. Doctor said its minimal and says it has a good chance of healing but I miss working out. Got any tips?

Hey GLO thanks for this post.

I only wish I had read it 2 years ago.

I started SS after reading the book thinking it all made sense. Nowhere in the book (not that I remember in any way or form, and I read it thoroughly) said it was not to be used by people with sedentary jobs because of risk of back injury.

(I was 38 yrs at the time, on/off the gym for 10 years doing some other trainings, job was heavily sedentary, all day long in front of the computer)

It surely stressed out the careful execution in proper form so I hired one personal trainer to supervise my squats and deadlifts while in the gym, then I video recorded some examples to send to another personal trainer, friend of mine who lives elsewhere, to check for form defects. Both said I was executing perfectly. With low weights to beging with, then slowly and carefully progressing to middle weiths. Never more than 40 kg.

Then I snapped my back with a lumbar protusion. Fortunately it was only a protusion and not a full blown hernia.

Oh, what a setback, physically and emotionally. Motivation for physical activities down the drain. Felt like the world had cheated me with another blue pill, why nobody, neither the book nor both my personal trainers warned me of that?

After the fact I learned about upper crossed syndrome, and how one needs to correct posture and develop the core before even trying the multi-articular exercises.

Fortunately two great sources of info came to the rescue. The books from Stuart McGill on back pain ("Low Back Disorders" and "Back Mechanics") and the awesome "New Rules of Lifting for Abs" by Alwyn Cosgrove and Lou Schuler, which translates McGill's wisdom into an actionable training plan.

After a year and a half of back pain and non-training with the info above I've been able to revert back pain and I'm back to gym gains.

But oh how good could my life have been if I hadn't been so naive on following Rippetoe's teachings, or had I been forewarned before. Never again will I follow a physical (or otherwise) program or system withouth doing a deep research and trying to thoroughly understand its implications and drawbacks.

To all those saying this post is overblown or salesy, no, it isn't. This is my story in GLO's words. It happened just like he says. I'm glad it hasn't happened to you but it doesn't make it false.

To GLO, thanks. Don't listen to the naysayers (I know you don't). Thanks a lot.

HONESTLY- I agree that Starting Strength isnt the best for beginners , they can hurt their backs.

I would really recommend downloading a copy of P90X. Most people need to lose fat and build muscle and gain mobility.

I agree with you all of your points. Also, SS is not really going to make you look good. Its really easy to go T-rex mode. Most guys want to workout to look good and SS won't really accomplish that.

Too the people being vocal and bitching about GLO,

You aren't 100% wrong, I don't want to and would never go buy a shirt from him, but like the rest of TRP posts take the good that you can learn from this post add it to the things that you can do or use

And discard the rest, if you don't need the help with this stuff that's fine, but sitting down and having around 10 to 15 questions that you have gotten through your own research to ask someone that is a fitness/dietary couch and also will apply your goals to TRP idea and will give you realistic guide lines may be helpful or worth it to some people.

And like anything in life nothing is free, have I contacted GLO for his insights no, I don't think I need to or ever will, I can use my friends that are good male figures and brother and dad. But there are some people in TRP that don't have those options, do you research and then talk to a consultant. if you go to a dietary consultant that shit ain't fucking free if it GLO or not

Or the old ass grass or gas this ride isn't free kinda applies here.

But I agree with the senior contributors, you shouldn't be on TRP trying to sell your shit. I get enough consumerism bull shit in the rest of my life. I don't need it here.

So, TRP has become an advertising forum for men who were too talented to get real jobs so they became fitness coaches.

I don't like posts like this. They build up unnecessary high hurdles for people to start getting healthier.

I also consider this post to be fear-mongering. Being afraid of breaking their body is one of the biggest reasons why people refrain from starting with free weights.

While the risk of injury with bad form surely is prevalent, more than enough people managed to learn how to lift without snapping and it's usually the result of lazyness to educate yourself properly. There is a reason why you are starting with the empty bar and slowly work your way up.

Also the squat is usually not the main problem. Deadlifts are much more dangerous. Just because you lack mobility for a proper deep squat does not automatically make you more prone to injury. Your squats will just not be as effective.

Just go get somebody atvtge gym who's already lifting properly to look at your form, get a personal trainer or film yourself and post to relevant subs.

Meanwhile do some yoga courses at your gym to increase your mobility and build some badly needed muscles and you are good to go.

And keep your patience and stick to the recommended progression.

I personally also believe that strong lifts 5x5 is the more beginner friendly program. Although the progression might be a little bit slower, its exercises are less complicated.

We preach lifting as the basis for a happy life from day. Nothing changed to that.

I usually love your posts, but this one reeks of self-promotional marketing.

• Controversial title? Check.
• Play on insecurities? Check.
• Create fear? Check.
• Casually mention your services? Check.
• End post with a CTA? Check.

I wouldn't even have such a big problem with you promoting yourself if you didn't resort to blatant fear-mongering to push your agenda.

Firstly, no one should be starting with a loaded bar. Even if you did some sporadic lifting in college and feel like you should be able to lift heavy weights. You start with JUST the bar. Always.

My gym has 13 year old girls squatting and deadlifting the bar without any issues. Explain to me how a slightly overweight 30-year old man is going to "fuck up" by starting with a 45-pound bar?

This post is only part of the problem. Where Reddit nerds go wrong at the gym is that they're socially inept weirdos who don't have friends.

Starting strength is just fine if you read, watch, and research how to do the exercises properly, with proper form. A bad squat will fuck you up, or best case, won't build muscle worth shit because you're doing about 20% of the movement right.

If you go to the gym with a friend who's also doing the same workout routine, he can tell you, "Dude, you're doing quarter squats and your back and knees are all fucked up." Then, he can bend over and show you what you look like, you guys can both have a laugh, and you can take some weight off and actually do your squats right.

If you go to the gym alone, nobody's there to tell you that you're an idiot.

I wish I had seen this a long ass time ago.

Starting Strength is the surest way to become massively strong, massively fast, before going to surgery for injuries after a few years of lifting.

Source: Me, 2 herniated disks squatting 400. I'd probably have gotten there much slower and in much better shape on a bro split.

I have seen this firsthand. Going too heavy, too fast, sacrificing form and injury results.

I think this post is spot on, except going slow with low weight is probably reasonably safe. But most people don't have that discipline, ego, pride, and wanting fast results. Furthermore, it's going to be nearly impossible for the beginner to properly assess his form without a 3rd party, experienced friend or pro trainer.

I'm a beginner on SL 5x5. I have no coach and no one to help on the gym. I do squats on the smith machine since there is no power rack. I try to do proper form and keep my lower back neutral but I noticed that the heavier the weight, the harder it becomes to keep doing proper technique especially on deadlift. Will I injure myself? Should I buy that belt on the back? Any advice?

[deleted]

A back injury during squats early on in my starting strength routine took me out of the game for a year. I had been practicing the form for a few months and it was a surprisingly low amount of weight that herniated 3 of my lower discs.

This is great, lots of useful information, thanks.

I jumped into Stronglifts 5x5 a few months ago, and initially had poor form with the exercises, and was overambitious with the weights.

Chilling out, and focusing on form, combining it with yoga, and being observant of the people in the gym who know what they are doing, helped a lot.

People should train according to their goals, SS sucks for hypertrophy compared to other programs.

There is a proper weight that can be lifted by an untrained individual. This is discussed in Practical Programming for Strength Training, which was co-authored by Lon Kilgore, Ph.D. Anatomy and Physiology, Kansas State. Each year, there is a review of the year's current medical literature and exercise studies posted on the Starting Strength forum, authored by medical doctor Jonathan Sullivan. Both of these individuals, in addition to being trained, educated in science, are lifters themselves. Most of the persons involved in the discussions of these studies are educated in science and experienced with barbell training, and the teaching of barbell training. Many of them have certifications.

Attending the Starting Strength seminars, previously untrained individuals are instructed and establish a baseline. Certified Starting Strength coaches across the country regularly help train untrained individuals with the program. The test for this certification is more rigorous in hands-on training component skills than competing certifications.

Experience is equally important, as many of the training certification organizations have discredited themselves by publishing contradictory or physically incorrect information. For example, the NSCA study that concluded that quad muscles do not play a role in the squat.

i just do lighter weights and more reps. still builds muscle, less risk of injury. girls don't necessarily like roid freak looking guys anyway. not a huge deal. slim and defined muscles will get you tons of ass.

This is fearmongering too be honest. I started this style of heavy "rack" lifts at 15 coming into high school. For, as you predict, football. Now I was athletic, but only compared to people who never bothered to exercise.

Maybe I am underestimating the level of degenerate bodies out there though that really can't handle the exercises a 15 year old kid can. I did not have any posture problems.

That being said. Even I shied away from Deadlift and cleans (catch and releases). I feel you need to have perfect form to not hurt your back or knees... and even then..

So I guess by the end off my posts I split on this stuff.

I think deadlifts are awful, yes I understand they are full body, but if you do them even slightly incorrecrly you are literally damaging your back. Same with hang cleans.

I think you should have a base level of muscle to do these exercises correctly. As in more muscle than someone naturally develops being a lazy bum and never working out or doing athletics. If you have no "built" muscle I just can't imagine your body being anything other than a cheestick bending and flexing in ways it shouldn't with these exercises unless you start with really low weight until you have the technique down.

Starting strength made me a stronger novice lifter and thereon after most strength programs worked their magic (Texas Method and Sheiko 4 day split). My numbers blew up, I was benching 275lbs unassisted, squatting 375lbs and deadlifting 475lbs but with a shirt on I looked more like a twig, and even then when the shirt came off my size was less than stellar.

In come bro splits. I started the Zzyz split with the exclusion of 4x12 tren pins daily and I still grew massively. Food is the best natural anabolic out there, follow a lean gains approach to dieting and train to gain size if you wanna gain size

Best mass programs out there are PHAT (Power Hypertrophy Adaptive Training) devised by ripped dude science geek Layne Norton and a favorite since it also trains strength, P/P/L twice a week, PHUL (same concept as PHAT but with upper lower) or a 5 day split. Anything works so long you're consistent

Dude, those are the two client result photos you choose? Painfully unimpressive. Do you have any good ones of clients or of yourself to validate at least some of what you say?

I agree with a lot of the points OP made, but this is too much of a straw man to take seriously.

Alright, so where do I start for mobility and balance? I'm 25 and can barely walk up a flight of stairs without holding on to the railings

just do what workouts you like and work for you. i started with pushups and pullups, eventually started doing rows and squats, then started doing overheads and deadlifts. routines are bullshit just make sure you train hard and get your macros. the human body is not a robot you'll get in shape by putting in the work each day.

The problem with Starting Strength as a blanket prescription is that its original intended demographic are high school and college athletes (mostly football players), not sedentary adults and not Reddit internet nerds

I'm not sure how involved you are with SS, probably not in the slightest, but this is 100% wrong. If you pay attention to any of Rip's podcasts or anything you'll see that SS is made for the lay people, old people, and everyone that wants to be strong, not athletes.

Fewer muscular imbalances

The vast majority of people are lazy fucks sitting on the couch. We have not had anyone learn to squat the way we teach and not being able to reach proper depth. The excuse above is just that, an excuse.

There is nothing more dangerous than an uncoordinated person fumbling about with heavy weight.

Anyone "fumbling with a heavy weight", is a moron. You will not ever find a SS coach, or anyone who read the SS and PP books to be "fumbling around". The people that can't do the movements are the ones that don't study the movements, video tape themselves for FREE feedback from SS coaches on their forums. The people that put in the time and reading are the ones making gainz in the gym.

your shortness of breath will greatly impend your ability to perform at the high work capacities that Starting Strength prescribes.

Again, you're assuming here the person starts off with heavy ass weights. Nowhere on the forums, Rip's podcasts, seminars, books is this advised. Starting out light, gradually progressing via linear progressing takes care of the adaptive component for your "cardio" health.

centripetal juicer and consume a glass of green juice ever day. Most people don't get an adequate amount of fiber and vegetables in their diets. It has been my experience that my clients that incorporate vegetable juice into their fitness regemine achieve rapid recomposition in as little as two months.

You do realize that juicing takes out the fiber right? I think you meant a high power blender like Vitamix.

In conclusion, Mark Tippetoe's Starting Strength is a great routine that I highly recommend if you are ready for it.

If you are a male that can't figure out how to read, video tape yourself to get FREE feedback, and pay attention, then I will go and tell the new 60+ clients that start compound movements every month on the SS program that they need to listen to you instead and sit on a lacrosse ball.

I get you're an EC and everyone here thinks you're the expert with Bodybuilding, but I would suggest you stick to just that, Bodybuilding isolation shit. From your writing you don't seem to understand the big compounds, how they fix posture by themselves due to the nature of the lifts and the intricate processes involved with adaptation during an LP program like SS. If you do in fact understand it, then why are you doing TRP a disservice by spewing bullshit like this? You're an entertaining writer and I like some of your posts but this is complete garbage. You need to study the spine, why it's safe in all matters of lifting, and what exactly happens when you do these lifts on this type of program.

Hey man have you seen the creativelive session of Kelly Starrett? Is it any good? The book is so big , its overwhelming and I am not sure if he suggests an overall body maintenance routine. I think you are supposed to figure it out on your own?

Dude watch YouTube videos and learn in a day. I personally think blaha' 5x5 is better. I think on presses a 2.5 pond jump is better and you should fight for reps.

I'm in highschool does this exclude me then

I am all for running starting strength, but some accessory work for the upper body must be done. I have friends that ran starting strength for a year, and they ended up with big legs and no upper body development.

Add db flyes, pinn press, db lateral raises, hammer strenght row etc.

The problem with Starting Strength as a blanket prescription is that its original intended demographic are high school and college athletes (mostly football players), not sendentary adults and not Reddit internet nerds.

Brutal and awesome. It's a combination of indoctrination, shitty diets/lifestyles, and excess amounts of betas and other undesireables breeding. Men only good for cubicle work having kids is child abuse. People that look like they cant function independently as a man outside their cubicle, outside the fast food drive thru, outside a starbucks, or off the couch are plaguing humanity.

Also don't do crossfit. Don't be a little bitch making zero gains.

Why you should shut the fuck up and stop writing bullshit posts'

It's been a long time since I've read a post densely packed with so much ignorance.

It's almost as if you did it on purpose.

Check out Athlean-x on Youtube. He breaks down the science of proper lifting into understandable pieces of information. He has easy to understand videos outlining common problems and alternative exercises.

Starting as an utter novice, I've been doing Starting Strength for the last 4 months and this criticism is overblown. I had a small strain in my back from bad squat form, but it only lasted a week and showed me where my form was bad. If you can get someone to teach you the movements, you can save yourself some trouble. With watching numerous videos on form, practicing with low weight, and using a mirror and camera, you can learn how to do this stuff safely. I even had someone check my form at the gym and they saw very little room for improvement.

I've had a lot of success on the program in only a few months, and I didn't need to waste time on fitness fads like functional screening to do it. If you physically cannot get into the correct positioning, then yes you probably need mobility work on that. I think the vast majority of people are simply weak in all of the muscles that put you into correct form, so the best way to strengthen it is to actually do those movements. Take it slow when you are new, focus on form, do not add more weight if form is poor, and treat it like a marathon not a sprint.

Just a bunch of unwarranted fear mongering to make it even harder for people to start hitting the gym than it already is. Of course you also offer your coaching services too, such sainthood. I like Starrett's stuff, but the worst thing most people experience is not hitting depth in the squat. They are not often doing something so wrong that they will be injured.

It's not too bad. Usually the kids I get sent to me to train for the military, I have them start with calisthenics and hiking around or doing trail runs.

I'll also have them either get an app on their phone to check out human anatomy or get an anatomy coloring book (it helps them memorize that shit really quickly and efficiently).

Later on once they've built a somewhat decent foundation through calisthenics and rucking around with a backpack, I'll bring them into the gym with me and start teaching them how to lift.

Avoids a lot of injuries and so on. I have them do mobility work, foam rolling, cardio, etc.

I see it too often around New Years where people come in from their extremely sedentary lifestyles, with lanky bodies or anatomies that haven't built much structural integrity trying to do half rep squats on their toes and deadlifts with their lower backs arched or whatever.

Freeletics is a pretty good app for calisthenics that I'd really recommend. Build your way up and you'll see you can get a solid foundation and really well conditioned with that as well as leaning out like crazy.

This is really important. Even though I'm fairly athletic I jumped straight into compound lifts without being ready for it. After a year and a half of minimal gains, exhaustion and near constant injuries I'm now going back to square one and working on mobility and all the other weak areas.

Even if you have to spend six months to a year building up to doing these lifts properly it will be worth it in the long run.

How can i work on my coordination

SS is not the best for begginers,if they go purely for muscle gains. But throw in some pull-ups,lateral raises and bicep curls and you are good to go.

People complain SS starts TOO easy and OP says it is dangerous for the average person.LOL. Like there is not a 1-2 month period were you lift submaximal weights my dead grandma could lift.If you are too fucked up to perform these movements,you shouldn't even think of a gym until you sort that shit out. Taking up a bro-split is the fastlane to tendonitis(talk about 10x10 bicep curls,brah),elbow pain and muscle inflation.At least a high volume routine for begginers would be injury-free and would require less food...oh wait pulls out statistics.Yup,it's not safer by a long shot.

P.S:The bro split linked is actually insulting.

That's a pretty big assumption because if it turns out that you actually can't perform the exercises correctly, you are going to be on the express train to Snap City.

I popped a lumbar disk trying to get ambitious on the deadlift. Turns out posture is easy to keep on lighter loads and will deform on higher weights. Don't punch about your weight guys -- no gym for months if this happens.

When i started lifting about 7 years ago i wasn't even touching the weights first. But at the same time i was about 14 or so and was afraid of the "forever manlet from lifting" mentality. In the end im 5"7 and wasted a few years of lifting. I never did starting strength up until i had at least half decent nutrition and also i already had a good base of muscle and knowledge. I don't recommend anyone starting with any types of strength programmes until they know their way around the gym, feel comfortable with different weights and have some minimum to decent gains from doing bro splits, which in the end, for me and many other bros is much better than those PPLS (which im currently doing). In the end it all completely depends on what you like and what works for you. In the end it helped me to get some fat + muscle mass and some strength as well, but when you start shredding for summer all those sweet weight racks have to come down simply cus the workouts are too intense and too extreme.

I dont know man, for most people SS gets them started perfectly fine. I agree with your points but often people are better off just starting with something simple and effective and figuring it out from there. Let them start with a sketchy back squat and then go on their own search for a solution instead of making entry harder because they have to know and do all this other shit first.

+1 for dropping Kstar.

If you can't stand for long periods of time without perfect posture, then stay the fuck away from barbells until you fix your pelvic tilt, rounded shoulders, fucked up ankles, etc. Or learn the hard way and hurt yourself. I'd recommend practicing something to increase mobility/spinal alignment for at least a month before starting barbell training, yoga for example.

Compound exercises are the fastest way to gain muscle, therefore, a person trying to gain muscle as quickly as possible should chose an exercise routine comprised primarily of compound exercises.

Biggest lie perpetuated mainly be the fitness subreddit You build muscle buy doing a shit ton of volume, breaking down the muscle (but most importantly eating at a calorie surplus). Tiring yourself out on compound lifts typically prevents you (especially newbies) from getting enough volume to actually stimulate muscle growth. If you wanna get strong as fuck yes by all means focus on the big 3. If you wanna be aesthetic do a bodybuilding routine. Your time is much better spent in the gym doing a bodybuilding routine then it is a doing something like starting strength if your main goal is to just look better. Because you don't actually work and isolate your muscles enough in a program like Starting Strength to build significant muscle mass. Yeah its way better then doing nothing but its not optimal for building muscle, its optimal for building strength, then again that's really not even the case. I like 5,3,1 better for strength programming.

Absolutely right and a relevant post for all RedPillers starting out lifting. I made this mistake myself - one month into StrongLifts 5x5 I'm experiencing back pain and have taken a week off from squats. This is particularly annoying since squats are the core exercise in SL.

Form is everything gentlemen.

SS is great for someone looking to learn the lifts at a light weight. This line of reasoning starts to break down when you advise people to start with (relatively) heavy squats right out of the gate, as I have seen you do many times. A compromised 65 lb deadlift isn't going to kill anyone.

And when you finally develop the mobility and learn how to execute the lifts properly your squat should be high enough to start a different program anyway (I like 5/3/1, four days a week).

Basically, SS allows a gym newb to dick around in the gym with a few simple movements to prevent information overload, as well as giving them the time to improve mobility on the side.

The alternative that you suggest has a guy practice non-compound movements while working on his mobility. By the time he is ready to squat he's going to be strong enough to squat 200 pounds, and he's not going to have time to learn the movement while ramping up to that weight. There definitely is a learning curve, and he's liable to throw out his back while practicing the movement for the first time with two plates on the bar.

And as you know, /u/GayLubeOil, I am the perfect example of a guy who shouldn't have started with SS according to your arguments. Terrible mobility, diet, etc. But I did, and now I'm squatting in the high 200s for reps with strict form.

For anyone reading this, don't think I'm questioning GLO's fitness knowledge - more than anyone, he helped me get to where I am today.

Young people and beginners: I always advocate just staying low on deadlifts, and squats if you're a beginner. Lifting is a lifetime endeavor, so start low, stay low and focus 100% on proper form.

Even advanced lifters, and oldtimers have messed up their back from lifting heavy.

You can always supplement your light deadlifts/squats with other exercises. Rack pulls are an excellent accessory lift to deadlifts, and you can go heavier.

This is really good advice. I went years early on skimping around deadlifts and squats due to a mix of tightness/fear/laziness. I supplemented legs with isolation exercises and leg press type machines, but obviously results were mediocre at best, featuring diminishing gains over time.

~ 3 years ago I got serious about squats and deadlifts, but struggled with the tightness and form still. My cure? Yoga. Not the crazy 5 days a week stuff. Just 20-30 beginner poses, maybe some intermediate after awhile. This opened me up and allowed me to realize a much better range of movement on compound lifts. The gains I've seen since have been remarkable.

Great post, thanks.

NOTE: Tupperware and rigid plastic containers are estrogenic, they contain bpa. Use plastic baggies.

NOTE: Juice is the opposite of fiber.

Having started coaching training for Rugby, I was surprised to see they recommend a similar screen for fitness to begin playing at certain levels. It's a common sense sort of thing but with how much we throw out the "Lift" mentality, I can imagine how many bros get injured not knowing what the fuck to do.

I would agree with op. I tell anyone that asks me about getting into working out that the first thing they need to do is mobility work and work on correct form for the big 3 with very light weight. I tell them they don't want to be that guy with the fag pad on the bar doing quarter squats with 315lbs. Mobility first, clean form second and gains third. If really really need to start those gains righ away then use machines until you get the first two correct.

MARK RIPPETOE STOP MAKING ME DO SQUATS

THANK YOU. Starting Strength and similar programs are absolutely terrible for sedentary adult beginners.

Heavy compound lifts are great, but you want "joint independence before interdependence." You should be able to effectively isolate movement at each joint before you can best use them together in a compound movement.

I think that the bodyweightfitness subreddit wiki's recommended routine is the best introductory program. The prehab/mobility work and bodyline drills are especially important. It's simple, effective, and easy to follow.

Make some gains and body awareness with BWF and you will be well-prepared for whatever direction you want to take your fitness journey afterwards.