Let me first say that humans are attracted to arousal, and not just the sexual kind. The human brain is like a gym rat that loves to workout and is only happy when its working or being stimulated by self-produced chemicals or externally introduced drugs. To deny the brain stimulation and work will lead to insanity or death. [Source] Not all arousal is sexual, simple mental stimulation counts. However where an individual brain draws stimulation from can go far to shape a personality. There is a saying, "you are a product of your environment" - that touches vaguely upon that, I wish to go a bit deeper (perhaps in another post, for this one there's 3 related things that mainly need to be covered).
"The end result of male socialization is a set of defaults that are programmed by society, culture, media, family, and religion. The typical male attributes are supposed to be: strength and self-reliance, success, no sissy stuff or don't be like women, sexual interest and prowess, active, independent, tough, aggressive, dominant, stoic, and never cries (Bem, 1974; Broverman et al., 1970; Herek, 1986; Zilbergeld, 1992). These defaults define a fanciful standard of masculinity." [Source] Aside from male bonding, nearly every other source of stimulus in a modern boy/man's life is going to cause an undesirable effect. Television has been feminized, the internet has been feminized, schools have been feminized, and even online forums such as reddit are rampantly dilluted. There are few places of masculine bonding, but men/boys need it more than ever. The existence of TRP is virtualized monument of that need. Social interaction with men is a positive experience and research by Phillip Zimbardo shows that men actually prefer the social company of men. This socialization causes a cortical arousal that has a direct effect on the [reticulating activating system] and leads to higher production of vasopression. This can be a determining factor on whether someone pursues the activities of an introvert or extrovert. [Source] There isn't yet a lot of research on this topic, but it's worth considering that 18 US presidents were fraternity members, and there is also this long list of unsourced statistics regarding fraternities reminding us that all of today's male leaders came from groups of men who socialize together. So where does arousal addiction and isolation play into this? It prevents it, and more.
It has been proven that humans will seek out the highest state of arousal that involves the lowest amount of work. [Source] This leaves both men and women in a state of addiction to whatever fleeting arousal they can achieve. For women it's often free male validation where I could use r\gonewild as a case study. Which activities do we see an epidemic of addiction towards among young men? Porn, video games, drugs, or a combination, all of which cause the brain to produce an easy and otherwise risk-free source of happy-chemicals. [Source]
Why is porn so addicting? Because visual erotica in particular arouses more than just genitals, it also induces a brain arousal (activation) level that is unseen with other forms of stimulation. [Source] This is particular to males. When a man sees a naked woman, parts of his brain activate that were otherwise not active. Hormones begin pumping through his body. His brain is on hyper-drive, and it likes it. But what good is that in isolation? And there is a lot of isolation going on, more than ever before. The average boy spends a minimum of 3650 hours playing video games by the time he is 19 years old. [Source] With the median being closer to 10,000 hours.. This isn't to say videogaming is a bad thing. Quite the opposite. Gamers have been found to be 25% faster to make decisions, and have improved eye-coordination. [Source]. Some would even say that "An Hour A Day (Gaming) Is Key To Success In Life" However the problem with the average gamer, is all of this is done in isolation. Skype and Teamspeak are no substitutions for physical socialization. Remote communication does not trigger the brain to produce the same chemicals. [Source] Gaming and porn (in moderation) aren't the problem, isolation created by overuse of these habits is the problem.
Does this scenario sound surprisingly familiar to the social anxiety experienced by many men (and women)? "In a later study on the effect of total isolation from birth, the researchers found that the test monkeys, upon being released into a group of ordinary monkeys, “usually go into a state of emotional shock, characterized by . . . autistic self-clutching and rocking.” Harlow noted, “One of six monkeys isolated for three months refused to eat after release and died five days later.” After several weeks in the company of other monkeys, most of them adjusted—but not those who had been isolated for longer periods. “Twelve months of isolation almost obliterated the animals socially,” Harlow wrote. They became permanently withdrawn, and they lived as outcasts—regularly set upon, as if inviting abuse." [Source]
This is a bigger issue for men because women can afford to have zero social skills on the sexual market. Women are pursued and can passively attract a mate. [Source] Women are more than capable of sharing a male from the top 20%. Women are not expected to lead in any substantial capacity. For men on the other hand social mastery is a necessary part of life and is essential for successful reproduction, unless literal rape were a viable sexual strategy. And men don't like to share their women with other men.
In conclusion, one could argue that because video games, the internet, and porn provide an easy source of stimulation that induces dopamine in the brain, people are less likely to go out and take other risks that would grant it. That can be good when it comes to avoiding things like heroin, but bad when it comes to innovating, learning, leading, and adventure-seeking. None of this is necessarily causation in one direction or the other, however the correlation is undeniable.
TL;DR - Male bonding is extremely important, especially for young boys/men. It produces essential skills/habits men need that will push them to the top 20%. Using a computer to communicate is still isolation, you need physical people; embracing, touching, even hitting one another. Arousal addiction doesn't help with the isolation problem. Physical isolation will kill your social skills, lead to depression, and many other negative effects even if you are receiving stimulation via the internet or other remote means.
[deleted] 10y ago
Is this going to be X-posted to /r/RedPillWomen ?
pedler 10y ago
Really good post, my only issue with it is that it's kind of all over the place. First you talk about the need for male-bonding, then on to porn and video games, and then on to isolation. I see the connection you are trying to make, but maybe just focus on one idea and stick with it. I think you were onto something at the start.
It's a shame that there are few masculine activities to do. Besides exercise it is almost zero. Physical, and more importantly competitive hobbies are diminishing.
It's all a byproduct of financial institutions, their owners, and the products they push. Not that many masculine hobbies make a lot of money. Same goes for job creation for men. Sometimes this world makes me want to ditch my science degree and become a carpenter.
beginner_ 10y ago
Just to add my 2 cents. This issue isn't limited to sons of single-mothers. I'm from a higher middle-class family, parents still together. Still I suffer from social anxiety, probably since childhood. And I only really realized that recently, at over 30...
Now I wasn't a completely lost case, I had a very long relationship with a girl, got a master and a job but nothing of it was fun or enjoyable. It was more like "I'm expected to study, I'm expected to get a job". I did what I thought people expected of me regardless of my anxiety. The upside of all this is that I trained myself being stoic and maintaining frame. I mean I was ashamed of showing my anxiety, fear or in general just sticking out. It was like "Keep it to yourself. You don't see others whining about it so don't be a pussy and just go through with it." I only realized now that the others did not have these fears and anxiety and were actually having fun at times.
My time at University was going to courses and back to home (to parents, was just 45 min per way) as soon as possible. And at home I would study (minimum what had to be done) and mostly play Starcraft 1. I did occasionally do something else like playing soccer, go skiing or such. I in fact was in boy scouts but it's a bit different here than in US. Being atheist is a non-issue and it is mixed. I got to know my first GF there. So yeah I wasn't fully isolated but due to fears never opened up to anyone.
I'm much improvement to say 5, 10 or 15 years ago. It was a constant improvement, but starting very low. Still I almost never get invited to anything, maybe once a month or less. I have to initiate everything and then often deal with rejection...
Adroxiom 10y ago
Fantastic piece. I have to recommend this to others. This is probably the best piece I've read in a long while, on TRP, hell on Reddit.
veggie_girl 10y ago
[This is a bit from a PM regarding this post]
We as humans don't have quite as much freewill as we like to think we do. Our environment greatly affects our minds, the chemicals produced in our minds, and then establishes behavioral reward patterns that we autonomously follow. Vasopressin is just one of many chemicals we have receptors for that are triggered by various social interactions. Its the same principal that "success breeds success." Or in other words, the chemistry lab in our brain is constantly working to establish highly profitable patterns. The connection to introverts is that they actually get more brain arousal / stimulation from internet, games, and porn. This is habit forming in isolation which leads them to be even more introverted. Because just like with extroverts, the receptors become more tolerant over time and require higher amounts of stimulation. That is why a videogame becomes boring over time, or why a high partner-count woman is quickly bored in relationships.
Another problem I now see is videogaming introverts comparing themselves to Tesla just because he was an introvert. Introversion generally isn't a good thing for a social species that relies on civilization to survive. Despite his great achievements he died poor and unhappy. Meanwhile the extrovert Edison had everything he ever wanted on top of credit for much of Teslas work. This is not to say that all intovert activities are "bad," rather a balance is needed. Edison still needed some alone time. But this is just a very famous example, it doesn't apply to everyone.
nefuratios 10y ago
I always thought /r/NoFap and /r/StopGaming were essential to TRP.
Lzz11 10y ago
Looks for very useful.
Buchloe 10y ago
I recommend the mankind project, if there are groups meeting in your area. Basically a nonprofit organization specifically dedicated to men bonding, confronting, socializing with each other.
skinisblackmetallic 10y ago
Which is why I just joined a Jiujutsu class.
[deleted] 10y ago
How is it? i've been considering something like that. I've just started working out and am still pretty weak so should I wait a few months?
skinisblackmetallic 10y ago
Don't wait. Check out a school near you and join asap. They will throw you on the floor your first day. You will sweat and gasp and feel nauseous and afterwards you will feel like a million fucking dollars.
aww40 10y ago
do both.
[deleted] 10y ago
Is it costly? How bad will I suck? I'm super curious
aww40 10y ago
It varies. And I wrestled in hs. and getting your ass kicked by guys who are better is how you get better at grappling. You're not going to be good at it at first. Get that out of your head. But the sooner you start sucking, the sooner you can start getting good.
[deleted] 10y ago
Word. I don't expect to be good. I'm going to look into it and see if there's a place for it near me as I walk everywhere. I just wanna get outside more and off this computer and get more in shape. sounds like a good place for that.
trplurker 10y ago
Amazing post, thanks VG.
It highlights the importance of developing a "gang" of male friends to hang out with and bond with. It's also why male support groups are now critical for men who have never properly learned to bond with others.
Qvanlear 10y ago
Great post, I see this in so many ways playing out in the lives around me in a college environment.
Hormander 10y ago
More info on how porn can mess with men:
http://yourbrainonporn.com/
Also, check /r/nofap
Manmore 10y ago
I've been saying this for a long time. It's a problem that there are no male-only groups/clubs/organizations/whatever. It's a big fucking problem that women have a need to always become a part of them, and men allow them to (politicians, teachers etc).
First these women discourage your group, but when they see what you've created, they want in. They demand to be let it in, because otherwise, discrimination, patriarchy. You know the deal.
I can't believe the arguments men fall for either. "What have you got to hide? Why won't you let women in? This is just a breeding place for misogyny!!" "O-oh o-okay"
PlantNutrient 10y ago
Even my school's wrestling team, an obviously male sport, had a female join this year.
hashtagpound2point2 10y ago
Beer league team. Nothing like playing puck with some great guys who have twice the life experience as me.
[deleted] 10y ago
Can't recommend this highly enough. I play hockey twice a week, in a league with a fairly large age range. It's definitely a big help.
[deleted] 10y ago
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Manmore 10y ago
Yeah, I know, but I was mostly thinking about groups for boys/young men.
I remember in fourth grade when I first heard about a "girl talk" group. Of course there was none for boys, as they apparently don't have anything to talk about. It has been said many times by women: if you're not letting women in, you're hiding something. And if you have to hide something from women it's prolly hateful towards women.
Take video gaming as an example. Women now wanna be a part of that world, having done nothing to earn their place. And now the world of games has to change, because feelings.
The_Determinator 10y ago
Men didn't really "earn" that place either, it's just ours by virtue of first flag planted. It's actually interesting to men. Not really the same for women, and of course their reasons for wanting into any group are always suspect.
dixiedownunder 10y ago
I think you need to be invited to some of those. That's what I've heard about the Freemasons.
[deleted] 10y ago
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the_real_chronos 10y ago
What do they even do there?
VelociReactor 10y ago
Free Pottery Classes
Dumbata 10y ago
Amazing post, amazing conclusions. I wish NoFap would go much manlier than it is today with its "non-objectification" which is utter bullshit.
Goupidan 10y ago
This is gold. Have Gold.
I just had an eureka moment, a bunch of stuff that I read just came together and all made sense.
http://www.cfdp.ca/roots.pdf, talks about dislocation and psychosocial integration!
IllimitableMan 10y ago
Good post.
This is endemic as a result of the collapse of the family unit being widespread in feminist countries, more and more boys are finding themselves isolated. In the days of the nuclear family your chance at having a father to bond with and siblings/brothers was far higher and children who are sons of single parent mothers are at the most danger of social anxiety and isolation, they cannot bond with their mothers in the way that they need to, they have an absent father and no siblings and typically they are born into poverty. What are there chances in life? In terms of SMV unless they were born genetic jackpot winners and were blessed with good looks, they have the deck completely stacked against them and are born into dare I say, something of an SMV deficit with massively high risk factors for delinquency.
The ingredients for success to help them fulfill their potential are simply absent. If such young men are ever lucky enough to find TRP and take on a self-improvement mindset, immediately they are awash with regret from all the wasted time and lack of opportunity they had. All those years wasted on being an orbiter, playing games, having bad friends, being too emotionally crippled to have meaningful friendships, it's a fuckfest of delinquency which rapes the shit out of a guys chances in life. Nobody talks about it, nobody at all, because most people don't give a fuck. But it's not as rare as people would like to think. If this sounds like you or you identify with this shit, leave a comment here, it will be interesting to see how many people need TRP because they were brought up in this kind of shitty situation or similar.
Their chances at socialisation, predominantly schooling and the workplace yield little to no social reward, that is to say, because they are not high SMV nobody really wants to know them, who cares about poor guys who aren't good looking and have no popularity? Fucking nobody and yet, that describes the majority of guys who are born into poverty and single parent/low education households with no sizeable family to take care of them. How do guys like that often get attention and try to break out from the mediocrity? They sell drugs, they get involved in gangs, anything to give them money, status and sex, shit they wouldn't get if they didn't break the law. The guys who don't do that or are too scared to do that? They end up in the porn/games/internet cycle, too irrationally fearful of people that even leaving the house is a big deal, talking to people in shops is a big deal and etc. They are so used to isolation it's become their M.O.
I'd argue the dichotomy we have now is that as a low SMV male it is incredibly difficult TO NOT BE lonely, isolation is almost the status quo for males, the millennials and to a growing extent, gen X, are incredibly narcissistic, who has time for those who haven't already made it in life? Seemingly, not many people.
My advice is take up as many hobbies as you can afford/have spare time for, obviously thats the gym but theres other stuff, debating clubs, dance, martial arts, whatever it is that allows you to meet other people and have some fun whilst you're at it. Friends are like money, difficult to get when you have none, but when you have plenty of it getting more is effortless. Preselection is insane, but inversely, so is the lack of it. A lack of preselection can lead to nobody wanting to know you, I don't even mean the opposite sex, I'm talking same-sex friendships too. Most people are close-minded and judgemental, they won't even try to look past superficialities to like you, if you're not a high-flyer they're not interested.
Shit, the standards for masculinity are so high, and the infrastructure to ascertain it for many men is all but absent, it's no wonder so many boys/men are incubating themselves with porn/games/internet. If you're isolated and the struggle is getting you down, you may as well enjoy your prison. Not that I advocate that lifestyle in anyway, but simply that I can understand perfectly well why it happens. Nobody cares about these people so these people do their best to make life as bearable as possible, even if that means forgetting how much their life sucks and distracting themselves with fantasy constantly, day-in and day out.
Such is the nature of system, when the system does a shit on someone but gives them none of the information they need to see it for what it is, they delude themselves on behalf of the system to stop themselves from going insane from how shit everything is. Escapism is a form of self-preservation for people who don't know how to or simply aren't brave enough to engage in self-improvement. When you have nothing, when you have nobody, stepping into the gym and lifting some weights around strangers is a big fucking deal, it takes a lot of courage, those boys are so neglected and so anxious that it's unreal, they will actively stop themselves from pursuing self-improvement because they are perpetually scared as a result of isolation, thus perpetuating the cycle further, they become their own biggest obstacles.
TLDR: feminism fucked up society to the point where a lot of young boys grow up isolated with no role models, money, functioning family, decent friends or good chances in life. Only the apex and the most extreme of the forgotten young men will break free from their prisons and become productive citizens.
Edit: Thanks for the positive feedback (and the gold!), I will form this into a blog post seeing as it has touched the hearts of so many.
macsenscam 10y ago
Menfolk have been the targets of economic and political repression to a degree where society is indeed collapsing, but I don't think feminism is the cause. If you want to destroy a community you go after the men (historically, this may be changing), but it's not an ideological decision. If that was true then we would have to say the Romans were feminists because they made their men fight all those wars while the women got to stay at home.
fluviant 10y ago
I grew up in a low-income, single-mother household with no father figure ever in my life.
coop_dogg 10y ago
Can vouch for isolation's negative effects.
When I was younger, I didn't really have a strong relationship with my family. My parents were together, but I became alienated from them (as most youth do). So what happened? I turned to the computer. I played a lot of games. I generally spent a lot of time on the internet. I made friends on a virtual pet site. What I didn't realize was that I was in isolation- I didn't talk about my internet friends to anyone else for fear of being perceived as weird. I had friends in school, but they were strictly in school. When I came home, I only hung out with my online friends.
At a certain point I even fell in love on the internet. It was essentially an LTR which as we all know can never end well. The relationship kept me on the computer just to communicate with her, further strengthening my addiction... Until she cheated. She broke the code, and broke me. I became very reclusive and sad for a while, and ironically the only thing that made me feel better was to become more isolated. I took her back (beta) thinking it could work. I even met up with her in real life but didn't make any moves (beta). Despite this huge new part of my life, I couldn't talk about anything that had happened, even with my closest friend.
In hindsight, having him around helped me so much to become a better person. A best friend is invaluable to confide in and work through your problems, in addition to happiness provided. I finally broke free from the iron grip of isolation when my computer broke in freshman year of high school. Then I found a new group of friends who lived around me, and realized that real people can appreciate me too. It built my confidence. I've never looked back. I'm not so much addicted to the internet anymore, rather than reliant on it and distracted by it. I love my iPhone. Smart phones are an unconscious addiction that many people share. You miss a lot of social interactions by staying attached to your phone. It's something I'm still trying to work on... But thankfully it's no longer keeping me isolated. Social media and Reddit are connections I can use with people in real life, albeit minor ones.
RP has definitely helped me to become a better man and a better person. It's gotten me out of isolation, lifting, eating healthy, and doing fun things with real friends. And I love it.
Azediae 10y ago
TLDR: Things got bad, something snapped, I embraced the TRP mindset of pulling myself up by the bootstraps and fighting for everything I want harder than anyone I know. There is no TLDR for the last 2 paragraphs.
This is pretty much the definition of me. Raised (and had my mind destroyed) by a single mother in another country, moved here around 12. The added culture shock and language barrier resulted in me spending all of Middle / High school with social anxiety so extreme I ditched until dropping out and played video games.
Immediately after I snapped and dropped out of HS, my own mother leveraged her beta orbiter to force me to empancipate myself, shortly after which I got kicked out of the house with a restraining order on the basis of "she felt threatened" - this was my 16th birthday present.
After a month or two of being homeless (endless harassment by police, fights) I had a near-death experience. Then my green card finally matured into a US citizenship, allowing me to take out private loans for an education.
I started forcing myself to attend classes 8AM to Noon, 1PM to 5PM, 6PM to 10PM in an attempt to try passing them while overcoming my massive social anxiety at a private university. Computer Science turned out to be a wise choice.
By the time I was 18, my education was done and I had multiple job offers lined up - took a prestigeous salaried position at that age which secured my living essentials (food, shelter, healthcare) - but I was still, quite literally, socially retarded.
The next few years went by with my forcing myself to get over social anxiety - at first by going to the gym at night, then making friends at work, then picking up a few hobbies, etc. Fast forward to two years ago, 20, when I was introduced to TRP.
Things suddenly started making sense, I read everything and anything on the subject which opened my eyes to the full extent of psychological damage that I had incurred. My conclusion was that the surface layer PUA shit was a cheap knock-off of sorts.
[Redacted content to minimize risk of being doxxed]
TRP helped me make sense of how my dumb stroke of luck happened to lose virginity at 20 (was pissed off and accidentally AMOG'd the fuck outta some hot 24y/o at my school because I really did not care).
Building off of that accident I found out the true male-female dynamics thanks to TRP and the PUA community and worked on replicating it / truly changing my mindset at it's very core, rather than pretending to be confident.
TRP is the inner-most core framework, the Cogito ergo sum of manhood - these principles of stoicism, outcome independence and more, have helped me build a resplendent life I'm lucky enough to've survived to enjoy. Thanks everyone, more than you will ever know.
FullMetalAsshole 10y ago
Literally describes my immigrant life with a workaholic/alcoholic/emotionally distant father and an overbearing mother. Add to that a bit of poverty as a result of unrecognized experience from the home land and you have me.
Financial issues have defined my family life since I was old enough to realize what was going on. Every attempt I've had at as a kid to get into a sport was short lived as my family couldn't afford it. Every time I'd try to hang with dad he was either too tired or drunk.
I just turned 22 and along with TRP and some introspection have finally realized how to put myself on a much emotionally healthier path with the help of good friends and male bonding. Thank you for describing the struggle of so many men in a such a readable and noob friendly manner.
[deleted] 10y ago
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derroboter 10y ago
that was elo-fucking-quently written! we need more innovations in this field (is it really a 'field' yet). hobbies, gym are good ideas... seem insufficient but a good start.
[deleted]
harkrank 10y ago
Just wanted to say you have the gift of writing clearly and truthfully.
♂ (Does this work?)
jimbo7771 10y ago
You need to be endorsed or have 5 "delta" points to award them to others
[deleted] 10y ago
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Buckeye1234 10y ago
Humans can be exceptionally resilient. Guys who can't run a mile can learn to run marathons. And guys who have severe anxiety can became Game masters.
consumer_of_fungy 10y ago
Fantastic post, your words obviously come from life experience and touched the hurt soul within me that I am still struggling to heal.
I want to add that this extends beyond single mothers. Two parent families where the father is an absolute beta loser can have the exact same negative development on a boy growing into a man.
My father is a beta provider who married out of neediness and loneliness. He worked hard but had no control over his emotions at all. He was physically abusive, emotionally controlling, manipulative, and neglectful of his children's needs because he was fixated on his own emotional satisfaction.
My mother despises him, they never go out, and have created a house full of negative emotions. My father's beta-ness put my mother's emotions into a negative state, which she projected onto her children, affecting me and my sisters development. But because of her Greek Orthodox upbringing, and having two children, she stayed with him because the shame and financial difficulties of divorce would be worse.
Being raised by a single mother is a terrible hand to be dealt, but don't forget those with shit beta father's who can create an equally toxic environment for boys to develop in.
j-pHil 10y ago
Similar but different here. Had a beta dad with poor emotional control as well. Not abusive, but very poor in the way of being a social teacher. He is a recluse, and growing up i never remember having a conversation that wasn't a serious sit down i.e. no small talk. I've just now realized how important small talk is.
theripper5150 10y ago
so what you're saying is that being raised by any combination of parents (or lack thereof) can potentially be positive or negative?
IllimitableMan 10y ago
He's saying a beta dad is almost as bad as having no dad.
RedPillDad 10y ago
Kudos. Only someone who has been to hell and back again could write that.
Boys being raised by single mothers will not end well. Mothers don't understand any of this personal hell their sons go through. A mother's solution is to mother him all the more... And at some point, she turns on him because he didn't grow up to be the winner he was supposed to be.
♂
exp0wnster 10y ago
True, but it isn't all black and white.
I am an adopted son of a single mother. My situation is different though (she adopted late when she had financial stability), but she taught me to stand up, to get out and do things, make friends, self-improvement, hard work, and would kick me out of the house if I played too many video games( it was really bad before, but I've controlled myself now). There are women who can be strong, its just most of them aren't. Then again, my mom is from a different era of people
trpbot 10y ago
Confirmed: 1 point awarded to /u/IllimitableMan by RedPillDad. ^[History]
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theripper5150 10y ago
what about girls raised by single fathers?
maderail 10y ago
.
veggie_girl 10y ago
It all depends on the father really. There are POS bluepill dads who are worse than any woman, and then there are redpill dads who are amazing. Right in the middle around average, I wouldn't know. Those guys don't usually have custody.
enticingasthatmaybe 10y ago
Masculine fathers leave an indelible impression on their daughters. As a woman she understands why she is so drawn to masculinity. Women always gravitate to masculinity, but modern women don't have any fucking clue why. So, they initiate hamster-drive and produce all manner of entertaining rationalizations.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
They are largely psychologically intact but they tend to be promiscuous. Without an affirmative role model in their formative years they seem to have a decreased ability to bond to a single man and seek out multiple men for comfort and validation.
vengefully_yours 10y ago
That happens with single mothers too. First wife and my second oldest are both exactly how you describe. Oldest daughter is into girls, so she is somewhat different. Youngest is 17 and has already had more than 20 guys, her mother was just as bad and about as unfaithful as a person can be. I was cut out of my kids lives, ex's dad leftwhen she was 12 and her mother never even dated again. I had no idea how fucked up my first wife was when I met her.
ubrayj02 10y ago
I really don't think you can blame feminism for the social isolation many Americans are born into, and spend their lives dealing with.
This country has been in the middle of a huge experiment in living patterns with detached single family homes and an automobile based lifestyle.
IllimitableMan 10y ago
Not a factor outside the USA and yet isolation in my country, England, has been commented upon and noted by the BBC. I read an article a long time ago, some years now before I even found TRP which said more people were living alone more than ever before, most were divorced or widowed. Divorced is the key thing there which is relevant to TRP.
sam_sing 10y ago
Interesting read. Although aside from adressing the problem a more thourough solution would be appreciated. Maybe in next blogpost?
IllimitableMan 10y ago
Already blogged the solution:
http://illimitablemen.com/2014/04/13/monk-mode/
Ironically in relation to the problem here, the piece advocates a period of isolation to focus on improving oneself, but the gains you will see from your self-improvement will put you in a good position to eventually take that to the next level so when you do try to enter social circles and get out there and be social you'll have the SMV to pull it off rather than meet failure. Obviously being able to cope with rejection is a valuable skill, but if you're finding it difficult to socialise that is indicative of your SMV and your sense of self, not your inability to cope with rejection. Nobody with low SMV can just go out there and make it happen, you have to improve yourself first. Monk mode is the answer.
CreepAcceptance 10y ago
I spent ~3 months in monk/cocoon mode and benefited immensely from my self imposed social isolation. Would recommend this all in approach to anyone who has trouble escaping the distractions forced upon them.
Always find your stuff though provoking, cheers.
[deleted] 10y ago
That blog post is excellent. Well done.
[deleted] 10y ago
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orographic 10y ago
If female biology is inherently feminist then the decline of the family is men's fault for giving women their way. Thirsty betas ruined the world and still are
icyhot39 10y ago
I'm not so sure. Men have been boxed out of familial relationships (socially & legally). Women (feminism) is awash with the nonsense that men aren't needed especially for child rearing.
Boys who are raised without fathers never know what they're missing. They are taught by women to fail. These men then raise their children (if they're lucky enough to) on the same feminine nonsense.
Personally, I blame women more than men. Men have always been missing from the parental equation more than women. Men must take on more risk to ensure the safety and wellbeing of their offspring... resulting in the inevitable work/war deaths. It's women who set the social norms as they are the dominant (in numbers) gender.
Who do you think shame men into going to war? Create the alcohol temperance movement in 1920's? Or, even now, the war on drugs?
Not long ago women would shame other women when they were sluts or behaved in a way that contrary to women's (the gender) own self-interest and well being. That's changed.
Man made technology improvements & government social programs have also almost obsoleted the protective and financial role men played. ..in the short term. In the long term, society can't function without men doing most of the work. Women are incredibly short-sighted.
Interestingly enough, feminism has made it very difficult to have male spaces. Places where men can come together and talk about their issues. How exactly are men supposed to learn to be a man when women are always in the room silencing us?
;TLDR - women are as much/more to blame than men in the feminization of men.
DrakeSaint 10y ago
I've actually had this conversation with a friend before.
It's not the females that are to blame for a feminist society. It's the (majority of) males' for not stepping up and not letting this happen. Instead we have plenty of betas thinking they're hot shit because they're paying plastic surgeries for bitches they one day MIGHT get the chance to fuck.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Bingo. Women take the shape of their container and will go just as far as you let them.......
veggie_girl 10y ago
Directly relevant TRP post on this: http://redditlog.com/snapshots/530385
Link to Roosh's article incase redditlog is down: http://www.rooshv.com/the-true-nature-of-women?a1
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orographic 10y ago
Nerve to say that? Pretty tough words without any explanation
excalibur1 10y ago
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Get off Reddit and go DO something! Practice gaming (i.e. talking to random girls) at the mall for an hour a day. You should be at the gym 3-4 days a week also. The way you are living is no way to live.
excalibur1 10y ago
The gym is easy to do... maybe you could give me some tips with the girls.. I find it somewhat easy to talk to girls right now but have only chatted with married/older women lately. At college I was in shape, now I have lost my physical attractiveness but still am somehow confident in myself. I could use some practical advice so I don't come off as a creepy, socially retarded, douschebag and lose what little confidence still remains.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
Learn Game. Roosh. Read:
-Bang -Day Bang -The Natural
Then when you get comfie talking to girls google "Kino." Youtube videos tell you way more than you can ever know.
Most important: Be awesome and DGAS.
VelociReactor 10y ago
Commenting for future reference.
[deleted] 10y ago
/r/nofap
/r/pornfree
/r/stopgaming
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no_face 10y ago
Remnants of such male groups exist in the form of freemasons, motorcycle gangs, gentlemans clubs, and fraternities
icyhot39 10y ago
sure, but all are demonized by women.
RedBigMan 10y ago
Who cares what women think about them... Join them to hang out with the men there.
The_Determinator 10y ago
So?
[deleted] 10y ago
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Iwantgoodasses 10y ago
Im scared when u say lethal and permanent, I didnt realize it was affecting my physical health. WhT should I do to change this? Im sure im addicted ti porn
Buckeye1234 10y ago
Side bar
bradyo2 10y ago
Wow, what an insightful piece. I'd love to see this on the sidebar. Excellent research.
This makes a lot of sense and I can think of some personal examples that go along with it.
This explains why you used to see a lot of kids with similarly-aged brothers who found it easier to 'settle in' to school than others. My Dad worked a lot when I was a kid, and I lived in a tiny village with no other kids (well, boys) my age. When he was at home, I used to spend quality time at the football and stuff, so I ended up sort of half and half.
I think there's definitely a serious opportunity to 'unlearn' these masculine behaviours as well. I would have been interested to see the effects on the monkey study where they take them away from the group after they have spent the first few months of their life bonding and then send them back after X months of isolation. I'm sure you would see similar results.
assinmygenes 10y ago
Sports and boy scouts were my saving grace for male socialization when I was young. I didn't always like the interactions at the time, but when I look back on it I was afforded some awesome opportunities through both. Boys should be engaged in something similar early to get them socializing.
rebuildingMyself 10y ago
Aren't they letting in girls to boy scouts now?
shua2189 10y ago
Girls can join a Venture Crew, which is an extension of the BSA.
http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/venturing.aspx
rebuildingMyself 10y ago
Brilliant. Shuts the feminists up and preserves the true boy scouts
Menadian 10y ago
In Denmark it has been that way for many decades now.
bringer_of_fight 10y ago
Lol
rebuildingMyself 10y ago
Shittest: failed
veggie_girl 10y ago
It's a disgrace that boy scouts are so vehemently shamed nowadays. Meanwhile girl scouts are using young girls to sell cookies for $700m profits per year and simultaneously causing a PR nightmare for any other cookie companies trying to compete (at half the price even) during their sale season. [Source]
^Edit: ^Added ^source
assinmygenes 10y ago
I can say that on my community I often see boy scouts doing community service or an eagle project in uniform. I NEVER see girl scouts until its cookie time or maybe a parade. I don't even know what they use the money for and half the time their mothers are selling for them. In boy scouts we'd fund raise for trips across the country to climb a mountain or sailing etc.
I don't know much about their anti-gay stuff that was going on, but it really is a shame they can't be accepting of all people yet.
[deleted] 10y ago
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[deleted] 10y ago
Nah.
BluepillProfessor 10y ago
What "anti gay" policies? That openly gay men are not allowed to sleep naked in a tent with teenage boys?
If we want to be fair why can't I take my hetero dick and sleep in the same tent as a group of teenage girls. We could have great fun: Watch this girls, I can make my penis disappear.
This would work great because I really like to eat Brownies.....
[deleted] 10y ago
Uh oh, how dare you criticize anything to do with the g word.
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BluepillProfessor 10y ago
You understand that men get boners during the night? My young teen/tween daughter is not sleeping with any of their friend's fathers for the same reason gay men should not sleep in a tent with young boys. That's not homophobic or misandrist. That is reality. Part of self control is not putting yourself into a compromising or questionable situation.
[deleted] 10y ago
Homophobic is the new antisemitic.
The_Determinator 10y ago
>new
The latter is still around plenty.
Nemester 10y ago
Form your own scouts. Don't force people to have your opinions. Oh, wait, most of the parents disagree with you so you wouldn't get any money. I guess you do need to force them.
shua2189 10y ago
Isn't it somewhat RP for them to stand up for their beliefs, even if it isn't acceptable with current popular culture? It's an association/club, not a business. I think it's fine for them to decide who is allowed to join and who isn't. No one is stopping gays or atheists from starting their own thing.
[deleted] 10y ago
It's fine for them to decide, as in not illegal, but it's equally fine for people to be upset by it and protest, rage, etc.
[deleted] 10y ago
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RedBigMan 10y ago
I really do not think they're so much anti-gay as covering their ass. Would you want to hire a gay man as a scout leader when the possibility of giving them access to scores of male children. If they have an undiagnosed pedophilia condition then you're just putting them into a target rich environment. I imagine the straight/married scout leader is preferred because it seems to imply they prefer straight sex to homosexual sex.
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RedBigMan 10y ago
Personally... because I know men are far more rigid in their sexual preferences. A man who's heterosexual and a pedophile would far more likely to be abusing girls than boys in my opinion.
Didn't the BSA start as a mormon sorta thing? no wonder they're homophobic.
shua2189 10y ago
Good point. I was in Boy Scouts as a kid. While they don't permit homosexuality or atheism, they don't indoctrinate the kids against them. It's simply never mentioned. At least that was my experience.
I personally don't care what someone's religious viewpoints or sexual orientation are.
On a somewhat related note: I theorize that the rise in homosexuality is due to the blurring of gender roles in modern society.
[deleted] 10y ago
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shua2189 10y ago
Could be. Like I said, it's just a theory. Or it could be a combination of the two.
hbPUA 10y ago
Having a good father figure is really important. My father was and still is bluepill, drinking when he was home, was away a lot with work. Living with my mother, brother and sister. After the divorce, my brother suicides and I isolate myself with online computer games and porn.
Got in contact with a real male, called J, I can look up to(though didn't at the time) and my life slowly started to turn around and now it's completely changed.
I still resent my father for being weak and not being someone to look up to.
I'm reaching out to male friends, but many are scared of change.
Playing catch up with my career and improving my game (couldn't even hold eye contact twelve years ago) and still meeting J now and then, and thanking him for the help.
[deleted] 10y ago
thats just the neutral case.
I can conclude that there are plenty of low hanging apples if you end up raising a child. not as hard as it used to be to get him standing out of the marching moron crowd. a crowd I was part of. All the emotionally unstable and slightly unintelligent girls from my school are already pregnant, nuff said.
my teenage and early 20s were probably fucked beyond my control. I really miss that time. it sometimes feels like as if anything proper was just taken away by others. interestingly enough I see plenty of guys worse off than me on the same path.
garrettcolas 10y ago
"but bad when it comes to innovating, learning, leading, and adventure-seeking."
WRONG!
You can now lead start-ups all alone in a basement and still innovate and lead.
And as for learning... Jeeze you couldn't be more wrong. If anything, the internet has made learning way easier, by gamifying learning.
I'm a pretty introverted person, and I like how this points out how introverts just want to spend less energy for their chemical reward.
BUT, to say all people will do when alone, is look for the quick fix of entertainment, is untrue.
I would bet the majority of people all have skills and passions they pursue when alone. The most addicted League of Legends addicts I know still feel the urge to practice their music.
To be honest, I'm getting pretty pissed off at how self centered everybody on this planet is. Everyone thinks most people would do nothing if they had the chance, when most people would paint, play the guitar, cook, farm, raise animals, raise children, write poetry, invent, research science.
I would reckon 95% of people want to do something meaningful, and the remaining 5% are addicted to drugs or something else negative like that. (Addiction should be treated medically, those people really can't help it)
harkrank 10y ago
That's why we have forced schools. To stop male bonding and to stop male social structures from forming.
RedBigMan 10y ago
You should enroll your kids in all male schools if you have the means to do so.
elevul 10y ago
So, what about meditation?
[deleted] 10y ago
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elevul 10y ago
I was talking about this:
Meditation has as main purpose the elimination of this dopamine rush, through constant calm, focus and at a high enough level, lack of goals.
rmtsukuru 10y ago
What the hell is this bullshit? You sourced freaking Aristotle as a source on women's supposed passivity? Letting aside the fact that I'd agree a certain amount of isolation is detrimental to a person's (not just a man's) development/life, there are a couple of things you've said here which trouble me greatly.
For one, you suggest that due to the problem of isolation in today's society, men have a greater need than ever for proper "male bonding." I don't see any justification for that, though; a more logical conclusion would be simply that individuals need more opportunities for physical socializing in general. You seem to be working under the assumption that most social groups, events, etc. have been infiltrated by "femininity," which somehow prevents proper (masculine) socialization from occurring, but this isn't addressed at all in your post. I'd really appreciate some clarification on your line of reasoning there.
Secondly, as an introvert, I find it more than a little troubling that you suggest introverted (read: isolated) behavior is simply a poor man's social stimuli. The introverted desire for solitude and de-sensitization is equally as valid as that for extroverts. This is not to say that humans should live there lives without some socializing, but merely that solitary activities are not automatically inferior to social activities for all people. This sweeping claim--like the one you make about how it has been "proven" humans will always seek out the cheapest form of stimulation--over-generalizes a real problem in order to promote your agenda for male bonding.
Last but not least, you start your post off with a listing of society's archetypal qualities for defining masculinity, then proceed to show how much of today's popular media and culture failure to live up to it. This seems to be your only justification for the importance of male bonding (correct me if I'm wrong). Again, though, I think it's based on a flawed assumption: that society's current or traditional definition of masculinity is necessarily true, correct, or even acceptable. Why should we let mass media and big business tell us what it means to be a man? If I don't feel like I identify with the hyper-sexualized ideals that pollute pop culture, am I not allowed to redefine masculinity in a way that encompasses my identity? By refusing to do this and doggedly sticking to a quasi-traditional definition of masculinity, all you seem to be accomplishing is establishing an antagonistic base model of interaction between men and women. And for what? To preserve some prehistoric notion of "true manliness?" The return hardly matches the cost of the investment.
I don't mean to incite tempers, so I apologize if anything I've written offends you, but I firmly disagree with a number of your key points. That being so, I think it would be in both of our interests to have a longer discussion about the subject. I'm sure your response(s) would be very educational for me, at least.
Goupidan 10y ago
I agree with your criticisms, they are very well thought out and said. I still gave gold to OP, because of the core message which is to get off the addictions and seek out healthier stimuli (through "psychosocial integration"). That, I think, is why I'm on TRP, not the misogynistic strawman attitudes.
rmtsukuru 10y ago
I can agree with that. Could you point me in the direction of some of the other useful stuff on this sub? I feel like most of it is ridiculous, manipulative PUA tactics (especially with the alpha/beta classification) or over-the-top misogynistic MRA nonsense.
Goupidan 10y ago
Just read it with an open mind, while knowing in the back of your mind that there is a lot of evolutionary psychology going on.
The core message of self-improvement is what draws me here, and it's perfectly coherent with my lifestyle, my goals, and my worldview.
Read the most upvoted posts from time to time, it's sometimes pretty motivating and inspiring, just learn to ignore the misogyny.
rmtsukuru 10y ago
All right, I'll see what I can glean. I can't shake the feeling that I'd be getting more bang for my buck (and less disturbing/fallacious content) by just sticking with http://www.doctornerdlove.com though.
Goupidan 10y ago
Blogs are always from one author, from one person. /r/Theredpill is better, it's more diverse, and there's room for discussion for people like you and I who sometimes disagree.
rmtsukuru 10y ago
Good point, I'm still new to really being part of Reddit as a community instead of just lurking, so it's humbling to see all the benefits that come from diversifying your input feeds, so to speak.
SpookySandro 10y ago
I've spend most of my high school years in front of the computer. I was always shy, my parents sheltered me, I've lost a tooth in an accident which didn't help my self-esteem either.
Yet, when I finally were sick of being alone I discovered that most people my age actually doesn't want to bond; they were happy sitting in front of the computer playing video games, going out only to drink (heavily) or to get high (one of my friends become a stoner that loses his mind when he cannot get his daily dose). It blew my mind how these people can willfully embrace something I've loathed for such a long time.
icyhot39 10y ago
yes. It's difficult. but, I have found men who do wan to bond and talk...even at bars. You have to sift through the assholes, but they are there.
Dat_Black_Guy 10y ago
Fantastic post. Really like the sources thrown in there too. Shows you took the time to make it legit