Summary: As sure as a woman will spread her legs for a man who gives her the tingles, so are there idiots on AskTRP who cohabitate or are asking for advice on cohabitation. Don't fucking do it. If you are already cohabitating, move out(or kick her out) before you are done reading this sentence.
There is a reason we stress the principle of NO COHABITATION.
It's not a guideline that we feel is optional.
It's not just a suggestion.
We don't say it for the sake of saying it.
It's a tentpole principle of being a red pilled man.
Way too often on AskTRP I either see:
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Some idiot who comes on asking for advice on cohabitation with his LTR.
- Some idiot who is wondering why he is having trouble with his LTR, and the fact that he is cohabitating with her is made known.
All I can do is shake my head. It's way too common. Seriously, there needs to be some kind of easily accessible material on the sidebar that stresses why cohabitation is bad because these idiots come on here floating the idea like its not such a bad idea. Hey, maybe they can make it work.
What really pisses me off is when someone comes on asking for cohabitation advice, and we say don't cohabitate, and the hamster wheels start spinning.
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"We can make this work, I am confident!"
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"This girl is different, you see"
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"I know what I am doing. As long as I hold frame and stick to RP principles, I will be fine"
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"I wouldn't be doing this if I thought it were a bad idea"
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"I really trust her and I feel like its time we take that next step"
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"She needs somewhere to live, I don't want her out on the streets!"
- "It's not like I am providing for her, we are splitting everything 50-50! No free ride!"
You retard. I don't give a fuck what your excuses are, or what your justification is, or why YOUR CASE will be an exception and why things will be different from you. We have hundreds of me here on TRP and in the manosphere who can provide actual accounts of cohabitating with their LTR and it tanking their relationship. The number of guys who will say it was a bad idea is orders of magnitude higher than the number of guys who said it was a good idea.
You can hamster all you want, it won't change the fact that its a bad fucking idea.
Then you have the idiots who are having LTR issues, then says they are cohabitating, and we tell them to move out/kick her out ASAP, and once again the hamster wheel starts to spin.
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"What am I supposed to do, throw her out in the street?"
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"We signed the lease together and its not up until XXX date"
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"It's just not that easy..."
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"But me moving out will basically mean we are breaking up and I don't want that"
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"I think we can make it work if we overcome this snag"
- "Cohabitating hasn't been an issue up until now"
And my favorite:
- "Well I have no where else to go, its her place and I just crash there with her"
The quicker you move out or kick her out, the quicker you can get back on the path to being your own man, and gaining the power back in the relationship. If you break up because you move out or kick her out, the LTR was built on a weak foundation and was doomed anyway. It doesn't matter if you have pay an early termination fee on a lease, call the sheriff and have her evicted, or crawl over broken glass, you need to either move out or kick her out NOW. And if you are one making that last excuse, "It's her place and she is letting me live there", you need to end the LTR and focus on getting YOUR shit together. Get a job, get your own place. For the love of God don't use an LTR for resources. That's what women do. Are you a woman? Men are not dependent on someone else, especially another woman. If you don't have a job(or a good enough one to have your own place) you don't have time for an LTR or to be chasing women period. Sorry.
So why do we say don't cohabitate? There are two reasons.
The first reason is dread.
If you have any experience with what TRP is, you know what dread is. Dread is how you keep leverage in any relationship. Dread is the constant fear she has in her mind that you are a high value man with options, and can dump her ass for another woman at any time. Therefore, she will do what it takes to remain in your favor and be the main woman in your life.
Cohabitating with a woman makes it near impossible to run dread. You no longer have leverage. Think of it this way: Cohabitation is one giant comfort test. Once you are living together, you have failed that comfort test. She now has you by the ballsack. You might as well put your testicles in a vice. Once you fail a comfort test, she has all the leverage. She will stop putting out as often. She will start denying you sex. She will stop pulling her own weight. She will become more bitchy and naggy. She will respect you less. She will exert less effort making herself as attractive as possible for you. And why should she try to make you happy? She knows she has you by the balls. All because you chose to live together.
It's hard to keep a woman up at night with the thought running in her mind that you may have another woman over at your place, when you are there sleeping right next to her.
The second reason is freedom.
This is what men strive for. Freedom. Men want freedom, women want access. As a man, there is nothing better than being completely free. Being financially free. Being addiction free. Being free to do whatever the fuck you want, when you want.
Cohabitating with a woman? Kiss your freedom goodbye. You no longer have the freedom to come home from work and do what the fuck you want. You no longer have the freedom to be by yourself at home and unwind. You no longer have the freedom to go out when you want and do what you want. Each time you leave the house you have to check in with your woman and say where you are going and why and for how long and when you will be back. You no longer have the freedom to cook/eat what you want, when you want to.
What if you have a hard day and just want to go home and be by yourself? You now have no where to escape to. You have no personal space to go to. What if shit goes bad with your LTR? You have no where to go to get away from her and be alone.
As someone who lives by myself in my own apartment, this just sounds miserable. I think men take being able to do whatever the fuck they want, when they want, and not having to answer to anybody, I feel like men take that for granted. It truly is amazing. This weekend I might go skiing. I might not. But simply having the option without having to make plans and check in/clear it with someone and without having to bring her along and such, is awesome. Just being able to wake up, make the decision that morning, and get up and go if I want to, is amazing.
What's basically happening, when you cohabitate with a woman you aren't married to, is making yourself the son to her mother. It's a mother-son dynamic. Good luck with that.
Conclusion: Don't fucking cohabitate with a woman you aren't married to. We say this shit for a reason.
Edit: Very strong hamstering in the replies. Looks like the cohabitation hamstering isn't limited to AskTRP.
En-Zu 7y ago
I generally agree with this with one caveat: how is marriage any different?
RPmatrix 7y ago
Not in my experience ... which is pretty extensive
Having cohabitated with numerous women, never did ONE of these things ever become an issue.
I don't change the way I live just becoz my gf lives with me.
That's what having a strong frame does, it's my 'frame' and she participates, she never 'rules'.
Nor do I make any 'demands' of her, as I don't need to. After all, she wouldn't be living with me If there was the need for me to do so.
It's "her Life and she lives it". If her lifestyle is incompatible with mine, she's gone. I make it crystal clear from the very start of our time together, what my boundaries are.
Every girl I've lived with has been well aware of my 'ability with women' ... I don't need to remind them of what I'm capable of. (going out and easily picking up someone just as cute) They've seen it, having experienced it personally.
I don't do Dread ,, if the relationship has got to that point, it's time to move on.
IMHO Dread Game is a desperation move to "keep the oneitis" (and/or the 'sunk cost' *fallacy associated with 'her') IMO it completely goes against the concept of 'abundance'.
If things got to the point it was my only option, I'd take my other option and leave the relatioinship.
Just becoz you live with someone does not mean you become their servant!
And I don't do marriage.
In fact (correct me if I'm wrong) BUT I didn't think TRP ideology subscribes to the concept of "marriage" ... I certainly don't!
Andgelyo 7y ago
"This is what men strive for. Freedom. Men want freedom, women want access. As a man, there is nothing better than being completely free. Being financially free. Being addiction free. Being free to do whatever the fuck you want, when you want"....my absolute ultimate goal in life, nothing remotely comes close to the euphoric feeling of being able to do whatever you want
ecosci 7y ago
It doesnt matter she will do whatever she wants anyway its called female nature no safegaurds or methods are going to help you just have options and be ready to leave her if she crosses the line a man should have a "suitcase mentality"when dealing with women these days.
[deleted] 7y ago
how about don't be in an LTR for too long either? i don't live with my gf of 7 years but there is no sex 90% of the times we hang out. they just stop putting in sex after a while no matter what, i've seen studies indicating the longer a girl is married, the more her desire to fuck her husband dies. you cant avoid this by avoiding co-habitation. all you will achieve is making the deadbedroom happen at a later date, than if you were living together.
Theunforgiven193 7y ago
I can see how cohabitating can fuck your shit up. I have been living together for 4 years and we see eachother A LOT. And although I can do whatever the fuck I want and dread is definitely not non-existant. It really is trp on hard mode. But I think it can be done with good results. MRP is the place to be if you still want to live together.
Tl;DR : what OP says is definitely true on some level. If you reaaaally want to cohabitate though it can be done with satisfying results.
abbafishhead 7y ago
I've only lived with a girl once, for 8 months. Safe to say, I'll never do it ever again. When I lived with her, the worst parts were:
Total loss of freedom/personal space. There's nowhere you can go without being harassed. She will nag you, talk to you when you don't want to engage in conversation, and when you're arguing don't expect to sleep well, or at all. I constantly had to go back to my parents' home (thank god it was near) or simply leave the apartment that I paid for because someone was being bitchy and disrespecting my personal space.
I saw the worst of her. I saw her without make-up, I saw her in unflattering situations (e.g. binge-eating in front of the TV in home clothes), I smelled it every time she took a shit, I saw her hygiene practices (or the lack thereof), etc. There was a gradual loss of attraction. This goes both ways; she didn't need to see me in a mess.
The constant shit-testing got really exhausting. Let's face it: most RP men can deflect shit tests now and then, but when they come at you 24/7 maintaining frame is going to be impossible. I lost my temper several times, and boy do girls push your limits the moment they know you can't evict her as easily as you want.
I had no place to fuck other girls. I had to fuck her even when I didn't want to, just because she needed validation.
Betaization sets in. I got fatter (no incentive to improve/lift with a constant stream of sex), and it became very inconvenient to do what I wanted anymore (e.g. go out with friends, meet other girls, pursue my hobbies, etc.), as now I had to take into account her interests, likes/dislikes, etc. It often became more convenient to just do what she wanted me to do to avoid drama and loss.
She took full advantage of her ability to ruin my life. This is one of the biggest drawbacks of cohabitation. She could burn down my apartment if she wanted to. She could shout into my ears all night long to stop me from sleeping. She could wreck my car out of spite. She could slam a sledgehammer through my TV/laptop just to get back at me. She could physically hassle me, and I can't leave, because why should I anyway? I paid for the apartment. It's my fucking place. I locked her out once; she made a huge scene crying and pleading outside the door like I was the bad guy. Remember that, because of this, she now has additional leverage against you.
Living close-by might be the furthest I'll go in the future... that's if I ever had the misfortune of pursuing another LTR.
ntvirtue 7y ago
If you are not paying 100% of your own rent/house payment. You are at the mercy and whim of others.
Frenetic_Zetetic 7y ago
I dated this one girl for 3 years. It was easily the best LTR I'd had up to that point by a long shot. Super chill, no drama, basically perfect. We dated for over two years and a half years, then decided to move in to an apartment together.
Big mistake.
Intimacy and connection was gone within 6 months. Sex stopped. Her hamster started. Irrationality, despite my best stoicism, reigned supreme. Moved out and felt like shit for the summer trying to "logic" how "a switch flipped" in her head.
VickVaseline 7y ago
Wait. What? You are saying that we should get married?
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
keep looking for excuses. Come on over to MRP. Every story there is one like this. you keep appealing to it being 100% guys with bad choices, because there are good ones out there, you only didn't look hard enough. This is the exact sentiment that made pk_atheist create this sub, instead of MRA and seddit. Go check out the first post here, your post was the example of useless advice and strategy for men.
"Used to be alpha, slowly became beta" it's so common it's a meme.
You can be the greatest guy on earth, but women play the long game. it can take years to whittle you down, but they will. It's not on purpose, they are just being women, without a strategy, even the best vetting and alpha man will slowly lose.
You used to have strong men who figured it out, following examples across generations. the last 50 years are the equivalent of cultural genocide on this. A recent example is Canadian natives. Ripped from their parents and put into catholic schools, and abused. in one generation, completely crushed a culture, and they are still fucked, 80 years later.
so ignore all the reasons to believe there are still unicorns out there. Women are all generally the same, respond to the same triggers. You can't turn a ho into a housewife, and no one wants to marry a woman who hates sex, but that middle 80% of women who are neither extreme can be trained with good bitch management.
And they thank you for it, because women are children, and children love structure. It should be your only hard rule for their continued ability to be in your life, if it wasn't worth it, RP women wouldn't even start, yet you see Rollos wife give him a full 20 years, Archs wive the same. Even CADs wife ain't going nowhere.
Focus less on vetting, it's the first step on a lifelong strategy
hobohunter24 7y ago
I co-habitate with my gf at the moment. We are doing fine. Sex on tap, no issues. I'm still running dread because i work in retail where 90% of the staff is female. Sorry to break the dogma, but it's definitely possible.
cohnjohnstant 7y ago
I agree. Each situation warrants different approaches, I live with my girlfriend and the benefits (cooking, cleaning, sex) are great. Just keep going to the gym, eat right and take care of yourself. You don't have to try to manipulate the things around you to make yourself better, just raise your own value. Cheers
Argocap 7y ago
I also cohabitate and see no reason to change. Sex anytime, and tons of time and money saved on travel, food, and rent. Not necessarily saying this is the best way to go for everyone but it works for me and my own priorities.
INTJokes 7y ago
How long have you lived together?
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StudntRdyTeachrApear 7y ago
Anndddd you showed your whole asshole.
does not equal, "This is a great idea!" In fact, that was the whole point of OP's post. You want to make it hard on yourself? Go ahead. Take the tough road. Make a successful family if you think you're ready. Just don't come bitching to TRP when someone digs up your post history and eviscerates you for knowing the potential consequences beforehand, which is more that can be said for the schmucks who were sold the aforementioned, "This is a great idea!" only to learn the hard way.
[deleted] 7y ago
Is this the place that marriedtrp fits into too? Like it's a bad idea, but if you're gonna do it, then let's make the best of a bad decision?
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
Ever heard of a bell curve?
hobohunter24 7y ago
I have. The point I'm trying to make is to not be dogmatic. All I said was that it's definitely possible. My girlfriend isn't a unicorn, nor is anyone, but OP's contention that it's such a bad idea that no matter what you shouldn't do it is wrong. You just have to know what you're doing. Apparently I do.
[deleted] 7y ago
well how long have you been doing it for? Because things could change drastically after 5 years, if you make it that far and be terrible. Then it's harder to separate when living together
DannyDemotta 7y ago
Work in retail, making what per year? If you're surrounded by women, you can't be making much = low SMV/RMV. Next are you going to tell us your girl is a 9/10 when shes likely closer to a 5 or 6? Good for you for looking down a butterface. It's a little bit harder than that to keep a high-demand, conventionally attractive woman interested.
hobohunter24 7y ago
Well...I'm in school. So working part time in retail. Lol. And I think she's objectively a 6 or so, mayyybe a 7 when she's looking her best.
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DannyDemotta 7y ago
Says the guy shooting up steroids, so much so he has to take prescription-grade acne medicine, because he isn't man enough to get gains naturally.
I do work in the gym - weights and cardio. I don't cheat, like you do. I've earned my muscles. I've earned my look. You'd rather shoot up to stay lean; I'd rather do the 10-15 miles/week on the treadmill.
You need to go back and read the sidebar if you don't understand the difference between being passionate about something, and being "angry". You are using feminist shaming tactics because you're a newbooty and don't know any better.
[deleted] 7y ago
Everything maybe fine at the start, but eventually everything said in the post will happen, and is true. It may take up to like 2 years, but eventually she will realize the power she holds over you, and you will not even realize how much you have regressed as a man. You need to be your own man.
zerocoke 7y ago
I just read this and realize how stupid I am. I moved in with my gf of roughly 6 months. I have lost my confidence with a lot because of her shitty attitude. Reading this makes me feel so damn dumb.
She told me last night. I've lost my edge. Fear of rejection from a beautiful woman I've fucked makes me sick to my stomach. I'm an idiot. Holy shit.
worktillyouburk 7y ago
ya wait till you wake up a father and your only opption is child support or staying with her ever fattening ass
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BrownAleRVA 7y ago
I couldn't imagine marrying someone without living with them first. People can hide the crazy, but when you're spending all day with them, it is alittle harder.
[deleted] 7y ago
well you shouldn't get married. that's what we preach. odds are stacked against men.
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hamstercide 7y ago
So "don't cohabitate with a woman you aren't married to". Okay. But then another TRP principle I've seen voiced strongly is "don't get married". So basically, never cohabitate with a woman then? Wtf?
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
Pretty much. There is little to be gained by sharing your living space with a woman.
hamstercide 7y ago
When I was a student my rent and living expenses got halved, and I had company, cuddling and sexual acts on demand (I was young, so this meant blowjobs with swallowing, handjobs and thigh jobs - because of my own mistakes I never took her pussy, and this became increasingly difficult to do the more we lived together). Then again the bitch did dump me in the worst possible way. Nowadays I see the value in dread and freedom, though, but back then it was a necessity. Would do it again though slightly differently.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah, don't cohabitate with a woman, unless you are having kids.
BallisticTherapy 7y ago
Giving women a vice on your balls and money in the form of children is exponentially worse than cohabitation and you shouldn't do that either.
[deleted] 7y ago
Well I don't want kids or marriage, so that solves my problem.
rrealnigga 7y ago
Can you talk without cussing every sentence and calling us retards? Do you think you have life all figured out already?
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
Some people need to be talked to that way. Spend a few years on AskTRP like I have, its the only way you can get to their heads.
FuckyouAvast 7y ago
Well maybe you would benefit from reading a book or two on communication and persuasion, because that's a pretty lazy and ineffective way to "get to their heads."
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
"Communication"
Sounds like what I hear from Relationshits.
"Communicate!"
FuckyouAvast 7y ago
You're coming across as inexperienced, arrogant and immature. Your post doesn't go into any depth of the issues a person might experience once they've hit their 30s, 40s and 50s. It's colored with the exuberance of someone who just learned about the problems with cohabitation and wants to shout their lesson at everyone.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
I've got a friend who was unbreakable Dark Triad, tight game with this easy to play girl. Healthy long relationship but eventually they moved in after graduating college. They are hitting the rocks now and we all saw it coming. I tried to warn him but he didn't listen.
I think it all comes back around where no matter how good something is. People get tired of it after a while. I love pizza and I once tried eating it for 1 week straight. I got so sick of it I didn't order pizza for a whole year.
Same with relationships, no matter your tight game you just aren't equipped enough to handle the daily drag. When you lived apart you'd only see eachother at high moments. The rest was left up to the imagination of 'what could be'.
Turns out that what could be is fucking boring.
360_no_scope_upvote 7y ago
Dark Triad person's don't get into LTRs
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[deleted] 7y ago
I was able to save enough money cohabitating to pay off my house.. Just saying
cristi1990an 7y ago
And I was asking myself why people make fun of this sub...
Skiffbug 7y ago
Depends on your objectives.
I used cohabitation as a vetting process. I wanted to see the dynamic we would have living as couple with both working full time.
At the start, she would come home in a bitchy mood from being tired from work. I made it clear that path only lead to separation. I only proposed when I was sure I wasn't going to be surprised by any other random shit.
7 years into my marriage, I still think it was the best thing I could have done, and would do it again.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Skiffbug 7y ago
Straight up: if you continue coming home with that bad vibe, this isn't going to last long.
Obviously being pre-RP this lead to a fair bit of DEERing, but the boundary or expectation was set.
[deleted] 7y ago
if you think you have a unicorn and are going for MRP, this is potentially the last stage before
cutting your own balls offgetting married. it is not because there's pussy on tap (there isn't). it's because you can test the shit out of her. you don't get to relax when you cohabitate. you have to gear that shit up 100x and your frame better be ready to survive hiroshima. when she comes home to bitch about work, you have to nip that in the bud. when she's loafing around and there's house chores to do, it's your job to give your first mate something to do. if she can't cook, and she's not cooking you shit, it's your job to make sure her ass gets in the kitchen and starts learning. and fuck sweatpants.instead, you get guys who compromise their own frame, over and over and over again. it really is a double edged sword, and most guys get destroyed by it. i know i did.
Skiffbug 7y ago
I started going down that path myself, but fortunately caught myself before full pussification.
It's clearly not the easy path, but hard to avoid if you want to leave your imprint on the next generation.
[deleted] 7y ago
It all comes down to the leverage.
Also letting one sleep over for 4 days in a row constantly or even just making sleepovers the norm leads to similar problems. I think it ruined my last LTR. She felt it implies to sleep over every time she came over because she lived so far away. I didn't feel like driving her there and back late and she didn't feel safe transiting. I just wanted a gf to occasionallly sleep over if I let her. I suppose the logistics were the real problem.
TheBloodEagleX 7y ago
What's the point of making it an LTR then?
[deleted] 7y ago
What are the parameters of an LTR? It must include staying the night?
As I said I never gave her commitment. Basically my dread started pushing her away as she eventually chased commitment and it became obvious to her that I wasn't sleeping with anyone else, so I admitted it, and she assumed we were dating. I didn't really care as she was pretty chill, even read RP women, cooked, cleaned and bought me shit constantly. It became much when she would profess her love and then have emotional outbursts about other petty shit. I assume due to my lack of returning the I love you?
TheBloodEagleX 7y ago
I mean, why even say LTR? She's just a plate. You just use her to fuck her. She's not a girlfriend or anything. She's just a fuck toy to you. LTR implies something a bit more. But it doesn't seem like it at all.
Bitcoin-FTW 7y ago
I mean... if you don't want your LTR sleeping over, why did you invite her over in the first place? To hang out for a bit and bang and then say adios? Why upgrade her from plate status for that?
Regardless, the easiest solution here would have been to go to her place when you wanted to hang out but not sleep in the same bed.
privacythrowaway2003 7y ago
The fuck is this, Bert and Ernie?
If you are in an LTR, you travel a long distance to hang out with her and stay the night, but you don't sleep in the same bed, that isn't an LTR.
That is like, your sister.
Bitcoin-FTW 7y ago
Haha I'm saying if you didn't want to sleep in the same bed you could go home, not sleep on the couch or something. The way I worded it is fail
[deleted] 7y ago
It's not about sleeping in the same bed. It's about staying prolonged periods and gettting too comfortable. For all the same reasons you lose leverage like cohabitation.
Many times I told her I'm driving her home or dropping her off at a bus stop out of nowhere, sometimes just telling her to leave. Those always ended in her hating me and then blowing up my phone with I'm sorry I love you take me back blah blah. Because I maintained leverage. It just became a cycle eventually and I found it toxic so I dropped her.
[deleted] 7y ago
I never wanted her to upgrade she slowly upgraded herself as I got too busy to spin more. She lives with her parents.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
How am I not taking responsibility? I wrote a warning of what not to do.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
I failed yes, but I don't get how I'm not taking responsiblity. I warned against doing this. I also learned from it and came to this conclusion on my own.
PaulMurrayCbr 7y ago
Never rent off a woman, never live in a group house where a woman holds the lease.
If you are thinking of moving into a group situation, look around. Are the common areas of the home mostly or exclusively full one chick's stuff? Her furniture in the living room, her pots and pans in the kitchen, her dvds next to the player, her personal items scattered around the house and very little of anyone else's stuff?
If so, you are better off sleeping in your car. You are better off in a crappy motel. You are better off ina "swags for the homeless" swag.
Moved in with a chick group house, and the psycho who held the lease told me "Goddamn, it's like there's a revolving door on this place - no-one stays for long". I should never have moved in. Nice as pie when she was getting her own way.
scallopkid 7y ago
If it's a comfort test, living together would be passing it, not failing it. It might be overkill to pass one comfort test but my point is that I think you're misusing the concept.
abbafishhead 7y ago
Cohabitation is a shit test, not a comfort test. Agreeing to it would be failing the shit test.
[deleted] 7y ago
Living with her makes her feel not just more comfortable, but too comfortable. It's a lot harder to leave her when you are living together, due to leases, moving out, etc.
BlackJ1 7y ago
This is just another post on how doing X is not red pill or smart and frankly I find it to be a joke.
Just like /u/PanzerBatallion said; if you can't do X in the relationship it's your own damn fault.
You can run dread game and have freedom easily in a relationship. You don't always have to come home straight from work. You don't always have to sleep at home.
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
I guess Rollo Tomassi is a joke since no cohabitating is one of his iron rules.
TitsAndWhiskey 7y ago
100% agree. There are many reasons NOT to cohabitate. There are zero good reasons to cohabitate.
Top of my list is legal reasons. Had a buddy who had to call cops and fight a legal battle to get rid of a girl. Took him like 60 days and she WASN'T EVEN ON THE LEASE.
But I see the hamsters are already spinning in the comments, so...
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
I've never seen hamstering on this sub at this level before. It's insane. So much hamstering in these comments its ridiculous.
[deleted] 7y ago
Exactly. I was disappointed to see so many on here talk about how it's a good idea to cohabitate with a chick they are going out with. It adds more drama.
PanzerBatallion 7y ago
Translation - you spend so much time trying to learn how to be single that you have no idea how to be in a relationship.
That's fine, but realize it's your own shortcomings that are causing the problems. If you can't leave when you want, that's your fault. If you can't come home and do what you want, that's your fault. If you don't have a basement/garage/workshop that's your area and off limits to everyone else in the house, that's your fault.
Don't blame the relationship turning shitty on the woman. Blame yourself for letting it turn shitty by letting her run things. If your first mate is running the cohabitation show, you are not the captain.
vengefully_yours 7y ago
While you're not wrong, especially the last two sentences, you're missing something. Op is right as well. In social dynamics, it's not all black white and 2+2, it's a world of variables and tangents.
I've cohabitated many times, I will not again. Some were very good relationships, others nightmarish seemingly inescapable horrors. The first ones of my life were the worst, those which came later were more pleasant and I've never let some bitch run my life. I've been on both sides of this, and the only benefits of having a bitch around had been someone to watch my dogs while I travel, and steady pussy. Bitches know if they don't put out for me, I'll get a different one tonight.
Here's the big difference in the two. I lived with my second ex for almost ten years, been divorced and living alone since May 2013, coming up on 4 years. I've done more in the last three years than I did in the previous ten. I'm healthier, happier, and have more money available for what I want to do. Now the second ex wasn't big on spending my money, she liked her alone time as much as I did, but she still limited what I could do and when I could do it. She was very submissive and compliant the only refusal of sex was when she was sick or had a uti. Being responsible for others slows you down, that is what happened with her. She was wonderful, until she went stupid, but despite being great in lots of ways, she was holding me back.
A man cave is bullshit, I own the fucking property, I pay for it, everyone else is visiting. I'll do what I want when I feel like it here, and you must be invited to attend. I don't need a special place, because it's all mine. The idea that you need a safe space where she can't intrude is lame, she will still walk in anytime she wants, she will still bitch about you being away from her, you are still supporting her, you're spending time and money with a better than 50% chance that she will bail anyway. That's not an investment, it's a cost at best and liability at worst. You have to hide from her in your house? Fuck that shit. I'll do what I want anywhere on my property.
beginner_ 7y ago
Exactly.
Yes, cohabitation has some risks, namley the relationship will break. It will show rather quickly if it actually is a good relationship. Fail fast and hard could be applied.
Dread
it harder to do but more effective. If you don't live together she won't notice that you are not around. She is doing her thing at her place. However if you are out and she is home waiting for you, that is dread you can't get when living separatley.
Freedom
Only if you are a pussy. Why the fuck do you do this if you don't want to? There is no need to do so and if she flips out about it well, throw her out.
The thing about cohabitation is that you can't fake it till you make it. You actually have to deliver.
[deleted] 7y ago
You are all the things that are wrong with you.
chrishsticks 7y ago
This needs to be higher up
whyalwaysm3 7y ago
I was hoping to find a normal comment. This post by OP is exactly why people make fun of "the Red Pill guys". How can you not live with a girl BEFORE getting married? I test out a car before I buy it. Not moving until marriage is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. How do you know you'll be able to live together? It's a whole new experience living with your partner rather than just dating them but not living together. If it doesn't work out now you're fucked because you're married and now you'll have to deal with court, divorce, custody claims, not to mention a "divorce" on your record which might scare off potential women.
This is seriously terrible advice by the OP! Don't take advice from a guy who has to come to a "Red Pill" sub to learn how to talk and interact with women, clearly he's no expert if he needs this sub to learn how to date women and communicate with women lmao.
cat_magnet 7y ago
Exactly. I have had several fulfilling live in LTRs in my time. Current one included. I go where I want, do what I want and my meals are cooked and clothes are clean. Not to mention sex whenever I want. Cohabitation is not the same as marriage. If things go south its not hard to get out. I personally enjoy living with a woman.
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Eastuss 7y ago
Plus considering not all countries have marriage laws as bad as USA. In my country, you can get married just to pay less taxes, and divorcing is not that difficult nor penalising for any of the party.
worktillyouburk 7y ago
ya we have a bs one if you live more than a year with a woman, here you end up being considered common law, which is pretty much the same including child support if it gets to that.
maxisacatt 7y ago
Agreed. My girlfriend has been living with me for a year. ZERO problems. I have several friends that are blue pull af and live with their girlfriends. They have to get "permission" to hang out. The fuck.
I'm a strong believer in vetting. In fact I believe all problems in relationships stem from guys not properly vetting the women they LTR. Pick a good first mate and be a good captain and you can't go wrong.
[deleted] 7y ago
Good piece of advice I recieved from someone. Don't brag about the length of your relationship when someone can own liquor thats older. Especially not clothes older
maxisacatt 7y ago
I never mentioned the length of the relationship
[deleted] 7y ago
I mention why later on, vetting is only half the battle, bitch managment is a must
maxisacatt 7y ago
That's just the period of time she's lived with me. Not the length of the relationship. Reading 101
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Docbear64 7y ago
I think many men don't vet , their relationship outlook basically is " I met a cool girl and we had fun for a few days together, I think I want to love her forever now , help TRP ? " .
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johnTrex 7y ago
youre just being a good example of the excuses OP wrote in his post.
it's never said that "the moment you live with a woman, she'll stop fucking you", or "if you live with a woman you lose 100% of your freedom". Yet here you are, with your one year of experience (lol), trying to say the OP idea is wrong.
you'd have to be mentally retarded to think that her desire for you is just as high as if she only saw you some times, and you'd have to be equally as retarded to argue that you have just as much freedom to do whatever you want if you live with or without her.
and the longer a guy lives with a woman, the more monotonous shit gets and the more problems you have with her. that's simply a fact. if that's what you're looking for, then great.
cat_magnet 7y ago
Although it's only a year so far, it is a year that he has enjoyed. If shit gets monotonous in the future he can next her. Its not that big of a deal. Have her sign a pre nup and dont have her name on bills or leases. Easy. Sex on tap, cooked meals, ironed clothes. When that drys up show her the door. More fulfilling than banging strange every weekend. That gets pretty old after a few years.
vengefully_yours 7y ago
You're right. These deluded kids thinking their short little flings can't accept reality. I'm old, born in the 60s, been through two lifetimes of shit, two ltrs of 8 years, a few more that lasted for two/four years. I've never let a bitch run my life, always been on my mission, and bitches do little more than slow me down.
Fuck, a year? Oh he vetted her, that's amusing. I vetted the second ex for 7 fucking years. Guess what she did at 9 years. Know why some people aren't divorced after more than ten years together? Because he has either ignored or is completely unaware of her cheating. What the fuck do they think she does all day while they work? I've been the man inside them while he's working to know exactly what they're doing. If she knows her meal ticket will be there and not see her cheating, she will be under any swinging dick she wants. It's only a matter of time.
They can't accept that. They think they have that unicorn and make all the excuses op lists. Still sucking down blue capsules.
Lsegundo 7y ago
its nice not to be the oldest guy around here ;) and upvoted.
whyalwaysm3 7y ago
Lol you've clearly failed in every relationship which you basically just admitted, maybe YOU are the problem? You let your woman stay at home while you worked and paid bills? That's your first issue, you LET her have that kind of lifestyle. I tell my girlfriend she has to work and share the bills even if I make more and she does what I say because I'm the one who wears the pants in the relationship.
vengefully_yours 7y ago
The only thing I did "wrong" was trusting then to do the right thing. Second ex had jobs, earned a degree, was a terrible cook. She worked probably more than I did after I got out of the military.
I find it amusing that you think you're so great at the ltr. I've known lots of cucks who are positive they were too. If your girls hasn't cheated yet, just wait. She will. Chances are you will not be able to tell. I know they are going to before they actually do it, because I know what they do. You probably have no clue and could never tell when your bitch has had a strange cock in her.
They all cheat, some simply don't get caught.
SetConsumes 7y ago
In all fairness, women that don't work tend to be more carefree and feminine.
whyalwaysm3 7y ago
That is true. No responsibilities = boredom and free time which isn't a good thing for women and men.
Auvergnat 7y ago
Are you saying that not all women are like that?
xmr_lucifer 7y ago
All women are hypergamous. Doesn't mean all women are equally (un)suitable for an LTR with you.
whyalwaysm3 7y ago
What's your issue with women lol? You've clearly not been with many women.
Auvergnat 7y ago
I cannot believe anyone on this sub would be dumb enough to use the most ridiculous of all useless name-calling statements... Are you sure you don't want to tell me how I clearly have a neckbeard and a fedora perhaps? Oh no wait wait. You probably should tell me that clearly I have a small dick! Ah, that'll teach me!
I'd love to explain to you how my comment was rethorical, but that would probably be falling on deaf ears for someone who comments on gaming and porn subreddits.
whyalwaysm3 7y ago
Gaming and porn subs, you know why I can get away with it and you can't? Because I'm physically attractive and you aren't. Because I have a personality and you don't. Because I know how to "play the game" and you don't.
Enjoy your assumptions but don't ever forget that feeling in your stomach when you spend so much money on drinks for a girl and then a dude like me walks up to her, flirts for 5 mins, and then she turns to you and says "thanks for the drinks" and leaves with me. Remember that feeling because I enjoy doing that to clueless dudes like you.
Auvergnat 7y ago
Holy shit I can't believe you're just falling for such easy baiting! That's so cute! Alright alright, I leave you to your awesome pick-up antics, mister attractive. tips fedora
[deleted] 7y ago
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PanzerBatallion 7y ago
Well, it basically is a translation.
This forum comes down to doing what is necessary to obtain a woman in the first place for sexual experiences. You go to the gym, you be vague about your job/activities in order to cultivate mystique. Then you plow her a few times and move on to the next one. But what do you do when you find a woman who is worthy of your time? The red pill has no answer for that, because it's designed by people who have discovered the secret to getting laid.
Well, newsflash, I've been getting laid for 20+ years now. It's not difficult. I understand it's a gigantic milestone to go from jerking it in front of the computer to actually convincing a woman to let you put your dick somewhere, but there are still more milestones ahead, and to think that the game ends there is erroneous.
The conversations my wife has at work are hilarious to her, and me. She often hears women complain about their husbands not doing anything around the house. "Don't you have a "honey do" list a mile long? My wife's reply "No, why would I need one of those? My husband fixes everything that needs to be fixed."
"How did you get him to do that?"
"I don't get him to do anything. He just does it, because I married a man"
Go ahead, keep on lifting when you're young. It builds confidence and opens the door to pussy. But when you get older, the game changes, it's not about what you look like, it's about what you know and what you can do. There is absolutely nothing that compares in regards to soaking a woman's panties when the conversation goes as follows -
"I really need to buy a new X."
"Why would you do that when I can just build you one?"
The problem isn't the cohabitation. The problem is that men think they can just be slobs and complacent in their own home - that they only need to put on the game face when they're outside cruising for tail. Wrong. Keep your fucking game up at all times and you never have a problem.
Source - I've been married for almost 20 years, slept in my own bed every single night, I have a basement with my fireplace, a TV, my computer, my guitars and my tools and no one else is allowed to bitch at me, bother me, or mess up my area. You can keep me company if you want to partake in whatever activity I'm partaking in, quietly, and if you don't want to do that, I've got 2200 other square feet of house for you to fuck off in.
I don't understand the idea that you're supposed to be the man in the relationship when you're dating, but if you somehow let her move in that you're going to unconsciously stop being the man and running the show. If that's the case, you really haven't been paying attention to anything that's been said around here.
This1sMyWorkAccount 7y ago
Somebody said it. I feel like this sub lacks the answers to the after effect. I have found my submissive yet strong woman. The relationship is still pretty young but she understands where I come from. I feel like I lack guidance for the time after getting laid and before marriage.
yaminub 7y ago
Goals
My house will have to have a basement, bonusroom, or detached building, for these very reasons.
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StoicCrane 7y ago
20 years makes for a different grade of women. Your wife knows how to respect men and submit to their influence, namely yours. Most women wouldn't respect a man if he carried them out of a flood bareback.
Women nowadays are raised and conditioned to domineer men in the home and treat them like the "child they never birthed". Completely different time with different values. Most modern marraiges are lucky if they see 5yrs let alone 20. 20 is a miracle in these backwards times.
goldnhorde 7y ago
I guess all I can say to anyone who is having those problems is stop acting like a sit com fat-ass borderline retard husband and people might stop treating you like a fat-ass borderline retard husband. i.e. ray ramano, kevin whatever, jim belushi, etc., etc.
[deleted] 7y ago
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StoicCrane 7y ago
Dude, once they become overly comfortable their hypergamous fangs will bare on their unsuspecting male stooge. That's when they start farting in front of you and putting out way less. Albeit positive that's a glaring stereotype. Have to vet in an individual basis or risk getting trapped in a miserable relationship.
bluedrygrass 7y ago
Women are all the same everywhere, so the only thing that matter in context. Are those Asians you mention living in Asia? Then yes, they're better. Are they living in western countries? Then its a matter of years or months before they conform to "liberated bitchiness".
AdsterPatel 7y ago
I love your username, friend...
HobbesTheBrave 7y ago
I'm curious of where you met this woman. Obviously you're the man in this relationship/marriage/whatever, but where did you meet her? What made you know that she was worth the gamble?
PanzerBatallion 7y ago
I will reply to this, but the run up to the holidays is busy during the week. I'll get back to this, though, I promise.
HobbesTheBrave 7y ago
I was betting on that you wouldn't reply, but it would be a happy surprise if you'd did.
Take your time, by all means. However, if you do find time to reply, I'd be grateful.
If you don't, have a nice holiday.
failingtheturingtest 7y ago
The advice here was for someone in a LTR and NOT married. A source of 'Married for 20 years' is fucking irrelevant.
You make some good points, but you also oversimplify and completely miss the mark on a lot.
You're talking about a sexual marketplace that you haven't been involved in for 20 years. Your advice would make a great deal of sense for someone who is intending to set the right path for their marriage. But most LTR aren't marriage, and aren't meant to be. And treating them an LTR like you would a wife is not doing yourself, or them, any favours.
"Be a man" is great, and spot on, and you're right that there's more to being a man than being fit and being able to apply dread. But that only partly the post here. It's a straw man.
That's definitely a crutch I've seen used here a lot, and it's a pretty shit-house mindset. You're spot on that the whole point is just to handle your shit.
But the Sexual Market Place is a very different beast these days. And attention spans are shorter. Sheilas' got tinder/snapchat/whatever, so if they want tingles and you aren't providing them, a new dick pic is incoming without her getting off the couch.
There's a lot to be said for both worlds, but from my experience, cohabitation should be reserved for when you're possibly doing a final vet before marriage/children. If your LTR is not at that place (and you don't want it to be), then sex is as often as you tell her to come over, dates are as often as you allow for them. Cohabitation should not be a crutch to get your meals cooked, rent half paid, clothes washed, and sex with less effort.
PanzerBatallion 7y ago
Incorrect, but keep making assumptions!
There's absolutely nothing in my post that's wrong. The wrong part is thinking that you can shack up with some tinder slut and have it go well.
Filter out bitches who are with you only because you have their current attention. Find the woman who wants to be with you and then what? Red Pill has no fucking advice for you. So you piss her right away and go back to Tinder sluts? What the fuck, man?
It's not a straw man. The point is that this forum is full of posts that say "If you do X, then you'll lose control." Why would you lose control unless you give it up? Are you making the fucking rules or not?
This post is working under the assumption that you're going to stop having control if your relationship if she moves in. Why would that happen? Because you stop bringing your A-game. If you stop bringing your A-game AT ANY POINT, she's gonna be bored with you, so what the fuck difference does cohabitation make?
Correlation does not equal causation, and THAT's the problem with this line of thinking.
whyalwaysm3 7y ago
Hey man I agree with your post except the "tinder slut" comment which is pretty ignorant. Online dating is here to stay. I don't have to settle for the girl in my town when I can find someone I have a lot in common with through online dating. It opens up the dating scene and gives you a bigger chance of meeting someone you'll get along with and have a lot in common with.
failingtheturingtest 7y ago
That's exactly how it's a straw man. The discussion isn't about posts that say "If you do X, then you'll lose control." The post was "Why we tell you not to cohabitate with a woman you aren't married to." and OP gave some decent reasoning.
Your argument to that is now "Don't think you can shack up with some tinder slut and have it go well". Are you naturally Machiavellian, or do you think you're pulling the wool over someone's eyes here?
I still assume you're not living with an LTR that is not your wife. Am I wrong there?
If not, then you're still discussing things that aren't relevant to the post. This post isn't about 'how to fuck side bitches' or 'why living with your wife is great as an RP man'. I think a lot of this post is rubbish, but your response is filled with irrelevant shit also.
If that is how you keep her attention, you're a fucking provider.
Straw man 101: Giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not advanced by that opponent.
Enlighten us how you can filter out AWALT?
Somehow you've moved on from your original (great) point of "Don't blame the relationship turning shitty on the woman. Blame yourself for letting it turn shitty by letting her run things. If your first mate is running the cohabitation show, you are not the captain." to "But what do you do when you find a woman who is worthy of your time? The red pill has no answer for that, because it's designed by people who have discovered the secret to getting laid." and other irrelevant shit.
DannyDemotta 7y ago
Keep refuting this dude, por favor. People like me are listening. Hes fucking the game up and being decidedly un-RP, mixed with concern trolling and breaking other rules as well.
Other than brigading, I don't see how his bullshit is getting up voted - it's all irrelevant, self-masturbatory nonsense.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
This is big time hamstering again. Honestly I don't understand why people refuse to swallow the hole red pill. Just admit you are playing at a disadvantage now that you are living together and that the only thing that's holding it together is your game. And that eventually that won't even be enough.
This "she'll stay with me forever anon, just as long as I am alpha as fuck" shit really has to stop. It's not doing anyone any good. Accept the truths and work from there.
What you're doing is rationalizing why you are different and more special than OP and your relationship won't fizzle out.
TheIceReaver 7y ago
He said he's been living with her for a year and enjoyed it, and that he attributes the success to a quality woman and his quality game/attitude/lifestyle. Thats not rationalising you idiot thats a result.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
Let me guess. He's been with this woman for about 1-2 years. He moved in pretty quick. Haven't you learned anything mayte? Relationships are meant to last for that time period, even if she cheats you won't hear about it. Things get rocky right after that.
TheIceReaver 7y ago
Then let things get rocky, dont try to milk the relationship out like a fucking android. If your girl isn't into you so much anymore then that's on her and just let her go and keep doing your shit, working towards your goals. That's the organic way of things and that's how life works best. The guy wanted to try moving in and felt like it would work well. And guess what it has, for a whole year. That's a year longer than this OP says will be possible. If it doesn't work it just means that one of you wasn't a wholesome person, and you have complete control over that.
Red pill isnt about never making mistakes ever or sticking to a set out structure from macho men like the OP. It's about living champ.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
I agree with you that letting the relationship go when the time has come is the only way to go. But I think what OP is simply saying is that living together adds negative points to an otherwise positive margin of attraction points with your SO. That if you want to keep the spark alive you should keep your presence sparse.
I believe the commenter when he says that his relationship has been fine while living together. But I also know that it's not exactly the same as when you only see a girl once a week. It's more intense for her, the sex is better, she's more eager. And this in turn will translate into a more manageable and pleasurable relationship. Not to mention the possible infidelity you avoid. Because she's day dreaming about you. When you are living together she can't day dream about you anymore because you are always there.
If you or any other Red Piller wants to live together with his girlfriend because he believes he can make it work, then all the power to you. All we're saying is that you ought to recognize you are entering disadvantageous terrain when doing so. For your own good and that of the relationship. There's nothing worse than a man who turns a blind eye.
The Red Pill is about acknowledging the truth even if it is ugly. Because in doing so you are better equipped in dealing with that truth rather than staying ignorant and asleep. That's what I meant when I said "just don't turn a blind eye". The more honest we are with ourselves the more we can do to improve our situation.
TheIceReaver 7y ago
Good points and I do agree
OmegaHex 7y ago
That only seems to apply to scenarios that are not hipergamic enough. Its not an orthodox idea, so I will explain in more detail:
If you are a 7.5 or 8.0 male dating a 4.5, 5.0 female, you can move in with her and have her pay for shit while still Dreading. This gives you a lot of freedom.
I agree its not reasonable to let her move in with you on the situation you describe, but your point does not seem to adress the reverse scenario: you move into HER house while she makes more money than you.
The Strategy, then is:
If you only mate with women in the lowest possible biological bracket that you can still satisfy your "intimacy needs" with (sex+ emotions), instead of following the PUA ideal (and "biological imperative") of hooking up with the best possible mate, things might end up being objectively in your favor for the very same reasons you identify as disfavorable to us.
It is an adaptive strategy that only works in western feminist scenarios. It is a parasite strategy in many ways. But I believe it is probably objectively superior to solo MGTOW strategy in many ways (even if arguably less ethical and hard to pull off because most men do have high moral standards and take themselves seriously)
techzilla 7y ago
You may be on to something here, something to seriously consider.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
I prefer living with roommates. Effortless daily social interaction.
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deletedFalco 7y ago
I don't know how this works in the US, but in some countries if you have a LTR and is living together for some time, the law consideres it almost like a marriage and if you broke up with her you could own money to her because "you made it during the relationship and therefore both are entitled to it"...
This is enough to not do it
FriendlyJack 7y ago
I like most of what I read in this sub, but this is some dumb bullshit. Completely depends on the lady in question. OP obviously never lived with a cool chick.
Eastuss 7y ago
The counter argument to that garbage post isn't "it depends on the girl" but "it depends on you"
Rugnardl 7y ago
You're getting dangerously close to "not all women are like that."
In reality, all you need is frame. If you enjoy life, that's your game. My live-in girlfriend knows if she fucks up she's gone, and I'd do it with a smile. However, there's very few reasons currently that I would give her the boot. It takes good judgement to know how to lead, and that includes proper discipline and teaching. Knowing what crosses the line is important for both of you, but it's important that you always back up what you say.
The OP's post feels kind of...like he's scared. Like he knows he's not strong enough to handle a tough situation. I'm not calling him a bitch or anything, but it always disappoints me when I see people opt out of shit because of the risk.
Further, why can't you have Abundance Mentality in LTRs? All things end. I'm good looking, young, able...so what if she tries to ruin the relationship? Next. That's all you need, and a live in LTR can never break your frame.
Just don't get married and don't get her pregnant.
FriendlyJack 7y ago
I like the red pill stuff, I truly do. But I hope we can all agree that some women are better than others.
It's great to live with a good woman. Living with a woman in the same house doesn't automatically mean you're some kind of bitch. That's a weird, extreme leap.
Rugnardl 7y ago
It does me very little good to even consider that a woman has positive personality traits, because it is a waste of time. To me, she is just a woman. The opposite gender of my species. I court, I fuck, essentially. Once you learn what makes them want to fuck you, you just keep doing that, like those flashy birds David Attenborough narrates for. No matter how advanced, nuanced, or varied the mating ritual becomes, there are ultimate biological structures in place that all men and women should at least be close in behavior to. One of those structures is sexuality. It's basic in its sequential processes. So too is the mating ritual. Starting an interaction with any woman at all will be routine as long as you approach her pussy from a place that biology will respond to, such as dominance, stature, status, etc. In that regard, All Women Are very much Like That. And that's a comforting thought.
FriendlyJack 7y ago
I'm sorry to tell you this, but looking at it that way, like they're a different species, that shit is fucking retarded. This subreddit has a lot good stuff that a lot of guys truly need, but it clearly also has the potential to make people go overboard and turn guys into fucking maniacs.
Yeah there is a way to deal with women from a grounded, rational perspective. Yeah we shouldn't put up with their bullshit. Yeah we're rational and they're emotional. Yeah most men are a bunch of beta retards, etc. I get it.
But let's behave like normal people here. David Attenborough? You're comparing living a full life as a man to a nature show? Are you for real?
It sounds to me like you're spending way too much time on the Internet and away from the real world. You almost come across like a psychopath.
Rugnardl 7y ago
...not a different species....clearly you misunderstand. Thanks for your in depth perspective, and chillingly accurate portrayal of my life, but AWALT, regardless of what you say. Big muscles turn women on, being dominated turn women on, being in the presence of powerful men turns women on. That's literally all I'm saying. Animals are attracted to what they are attracted to, and we are all animals when you strip back the nuance. When did I say anything about living a full life? A man should, yes, but I don't see how believing AWALT is contradictory to that or that it makes me an Internet basement dweller, lmao
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lodro 7y ago
That's a pretty crap source.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
How or what signs did you get that were showing you that you were losing your sex drive, when living with a woman? I just never heard of a guy losing his sex drive when living with a woman.
tekende 7y ago
Now that I think about it, that's happened to me too.
Ricardo_Machista 7y ago
Holy fuck. That totally explains some shit
[deleted] 7y ago
Really, can someone do an in depth explanation on why this occurs?
[deleted] 7y ago
LOL. This is not true at all. I live with my woman (unmarried), and she knows that I can (and will) do whatever the fuck I want, when I want.
But I get it, not everyone has it like this. You kids would rather live with your parents than face responsibility.
prisoneq88 7y ago
I think it's focusing on the cons only. I think this rule is reasonable as long as you have ,,Don't get married rule as well''. Because i can't imagine getting married with woman i havent shared home with for longer period of time. Hard to pick on Red Flags without it before getting married. And i sure want to test her before getting married. PS. Sorry for my english
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 7y ago
Great post, OP. Something that needs to be mentioned: In many jurisdictions, you can NOT kick a cohabitator out without an eviction process once they have lived there 30 days! As a cop told me when I was having problems with a long-ago BPD GF, "If her toothbrush is on the sink, we can't remove her, you have to go through an eviction process."
Until she actually became violent and I was able to obtain an emergency move-out order from a judge, it was a 60-day process to remove her. Mind you, this was MY HOUSE I had lived in for 15 years at the time, and she'd lived there rent-free for around 6 months. As far as the law was concerned, she had at least as much right to be there as I did. (She tried to bait me into hitting her in order to live there in my house while I sat in jail, which I later found she'd done to two other men in the past.)
Dating in my late 30s and 40s has been much better; the women have their own houses and jobs.
Heed OP's message: Do not cohabitate before marriage!
Agreed, I'll see about curating this on the AskTRP sidebar.
PaulMurrayCbr 7y ago
Generally speaking, you cannot simply kick a person out onto the street except under pretty extreme circumstances.
grewapair 7y ago
At the very least: No mail gets delivered. Make her get a PO box, and send back any she gets, return to sender and make her change the address right away.
If the cops show up, you tell them she doesn't live there and never has.
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 7y ago
This is 75% bad advice. It's good to set the parameters by having her mail go to a PO box, but don't go into a courtroom assuming this has any bearing on her residency status.
Also, men are at a disadvantage when the law becomes involved with domestic problems, thanks to the Duluth Model. Do NOT taint your case by trying to play fancy with the facts. Men need every advantage they can get, in order to prevail in court.
[deleted] 7y ago
Here are some factors that make cohabiting so difficult today:
Couples don't have children who would take the woman's attention and make her appreciate the man more.
Communities have disintegrated by modern life which means most women don't have a group of friends in stable relationships with whom she could unload, so she needs to take it out on her man.
Modern women are too dumb to understand they also need some alone time and ask for it, so she will act like a bitch to her man instead not even understanding herself why.
Modern comfort and living standard means men don't have much to do outside work besides lounging in the house. Doing hobby things that are not needed will be interrupted by the woman.
Pubs have become venues for hooking up and for alcoholics instead of places for men of the community to socialize.
Property rights for women and made-up jobs for women means they own half of the place or pay half of rent. This lowers her respect for the man.
Women despise a man who spends much more time with them than for sex.
So what can you do if you want to cohabitate with a woman or are already doing it?
Start ridiculous bullshit drama before she does so she can have something to be emotional about.
Go visit friends for drinking and gambling in the nights. More difficult today since many jobs require you to be sober and many people have driving commutes.
Get a job that is a week on/off or even a month on/off. Difficult because the lack of community means she can cheat on you without you knowing. Then again depending on job you increase your own opportunities to chase women.
Solid post OP, but you could go easier on the Drill Sergeant Hardass writing style, too many contributors here use it already, it's getting tiresome and it hinders your message.
[deleted] 7y ago
I beg to differ. Too many kids are raised without any sort of hardship.
If anything, more crushing of the ego is required. 20 years of participation trophies aren't killed by a single cuss word on a post
[deleted] 7y ago
AWALTs have no hobbies anyways. seriously, go ask a girl what she likes to do when she's not working. most will say "drinking/hanging with friends" and [exciting thing like traveling / rock climbing / paddle boarding]. ask her when was the last time she actually did one of those exciting things and it's basically never. she will certainly not respect your hobbies because to her, a hobby is something she did once ten years ago when daddy paid for it. she has no hobbies herself, and when she's not in work, she spends most of her time lounging in front of the TV/laptop/phone or sleeping. so unless you leave without her, she gets no alone time and becomes a wound-up pissed-off hag, and whenever you leave without her, you're a shitlord for leaving her home doing boring shit in front of the TV/laptop/phone.
worktillyouburk 7y ago
honestly, why is this the case? you ask my dad he loves to golf and is really invested into it and it makes him happy. you ask my mom about hobbies she has none.
this seems to be the case with the most woman? why don't they have hobbies?
FuckyouAvast 7y ago
This thread is overpopulated with men who have only been with vapid morons. I know so many women that are doing seriously cool shit and have legit hobbies and talents in painting and music, video direction, writing, etc. Boring men find boring women, and then they say AWALT. It's fucking annoying.
its_meKnightSwolaire 7y ago
Seriously I have yet to date a woman with her own hobbies and hence a way she can kill time and entertain herself without constantly needing attention from me
Cartz1209 7y ago
This advice simply doesn't make sense to me.
"Normal" LTR go this way. You 1st start dating, then 2nd you move in together (to see how well you handle each other in a totally different and new environment/dynamic) and lastly 3rd you get married. There's also the 4th step that comes later with divorce.
What OP is suggesting is to just skip 2nd step and that makes no sense at all. Living with one person is very very different than just hanging around together, even if all the time. It's really important in my point of view to have this test and live with the girl before even considering marrying her.
In fact cohabiting with someone only after marriage can become such a complication. Not only you get all the problems OP mentions but an extra layer of complication with all the stuff (legal and so on) that marriage involves.
Living together with your girlfriend allows you to share tasks. I arrive from work tired as f*ck! It feels great to have someone to cook me a meal and then afterwards I do the dishes or take the garbage out, or do some laundry, instead of having to do all this by myself.
Also feels good to arrive home and have someone to talk with, chill out or if I'm in the mood to be alone, I just go to a different division of the house and close the door, put some music or movie or tv-show or even read a book and there I am, completely alone.
Last but not least, the idea of not having to tell your LTR where you are going or what you will be doing just because you are not living together, is ludicrous! If you go frequently AWOL, most likely you have a fuck buddy and not a real girlfriend. Also most likely she is fucking around with other dudes while you are nowhere to be found. Expecting her to be at home all day waiting for you while you go skying is just silly. She will do other stuff, meet other people (which includes dudes) and you know what comes next when women have this type of freedom and time...
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
You don't get married. Pretty sure we advocate "don't get married" around here.
[deleted] 7y ago
How about, don't get married? Why is that a hard concept for people when the odds are stacked against men, when it comes to divorce rape?
Cartz1209 7y ago
Sure, that's also an option, but not what is being discussed here. The point is OP says to live together with the other person only after marriage... and that's just crazy talk to me.
But regarding your point, I totally agree. In some countries divorce usually comes with such a big weight on the side of men that I wonder how come people get married. I'm talking of USA for example... there are several countries in Europe however where divorce doesn't involve losing half of your money and have to pay a certain amount monthly for the rest of your life.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah, I live in the USA, which is why I have a negative opinion on whether to get married or not, but should you get married, then you should live with the person. So you can at least see if you get along before making it official.
[deleted] 7y ago
I'm disappointed by the amount of men on her who are trying to hamster away the fact that cohabitating is bad. Keep trying to say "well she's different and things are great." For now, but over time, she will nitpick everything you do and slowly lose attraction. Any drama you guys have is compounded, because you can't just leave or have her leave the place, because you both now live together.
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
I am surprised. Usually you only see hamstering on AskTRP. Half of the replies I am reading in my inbox right now(first time logging on since I posted the OP) are nothing but hamstering and excuses and why THEIR case is different and why THEIR case is a good idea and since because they are cohabitating and haven't had any issues yet that proves its a good idea and therefore always a good idea for any man with a girlfriend.
I can take every penny to my name and go place it on a single number at a roulette table, and win. Even if I won, it doesn't mean it was a good idea.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah, they keep saying things about cooking and cleaning and I think to myself, I can do that shit myself and I cook my own meals. If I needed someone to clean, just get maid service. I live with roommates who I'm good friends with, but can't wait when I can afford to have my own apartment. Easier to bring women back to, have my own space to do what I want, etc.
I'm seen too many horror stories of what happens when a couple lives together and drama happens. If you aren't living together, one of you can leave and go to your own place. when you are living together, that's not possible. Plus, she will nitpick EVERYTHING you do, that might not even be a big deal.
Then there are the whole "if you are high value enough, things will go smoothly" posts. What they don't say is what is considered high value. Even rich, famous celebrities get cheated on. Good looking people who are interesting get cheated on. Plus, there are so many dead bedroom stories from long married couples, that don't make marriage or cohabitating sound appealing.
EDIT: This post was shared over at the blue pill subreddit. that might explain it.
TheDialecticParadox 7y ago
I learned my lesson in my first LTR. We didn't even start living together, I stayed at her place a few nights a week because I was having trouble with a drug addict living in our shared accomodation.
I noticed the romance and passion slowly dying and she became more and more intolerable and more distant. I invited her over to break up with her and she did it before I got the chance.
I think what motivates most guys to live with their LTR is a constant supply of pussy and validation whenever they want. Unless you are way above her SMV and run impeccable game, the opposite happens. Just don't do it.
Even if you think you are RP as fuck, living on your own is waaaaay better anyway. Tomorrow I'm going kyaking for the first time and my girlfriend doesn't even know. That wouldn't be the case if we lived together.
Enjoy your freedom gents.
StoicCrane 7y ago
My grandfather got out of a horrible relationship with my step grandmother in 2010-11 when she passed. They were married but had absolutely no love respect for him and turned him into her Beta slave on account of his "religion". She had osteoporosis so she literally couldn't walk on her own and my poor ol' grandpops had to push her fatass around to doctor's visits and literally self-ramp her out of his van because it was " the right thing to do" only to called a fucking idiot when he didn't heat up her food in the microwave long enough.
She passed and my gramps had his freedom for a few months until my bitch step aunt decided to squat on him and my MGTOW obese, video game playing Uncle, age 43 (nearly died a few months ago from a lung clot. Go MGTOW!). Instead of fighting for his home and kicking the bitch out Gramls decided to marry this old broad in his congregation to move in with her on her terms to escape the situation!!! I didn't attend the wedding because even as a BPer back then I knew it was a huge mistake. Needless to say he gets exactly treated the same way he did by my late grandmother by this new wife. To top it off this new one has two daughters over 30 who still live with her and Lymes disease that he has to deal with on a regular basis. There's no mercy or peace for BP men.
yomo86 7y ago
Even IF a man, any man, is capable of running such game. The sustainablility is simply out of the question.
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Eyeswears 7y ago
Just don't do everything without her knowing. It is useful for her to know you have a full and satisfying life outside of your relationship with her. Options are power and plans are a perfect manifestation of it.
Docbear64 7y ago
I think sometimes it's more fun when they ask " so how was your week " to throw stuff like " I went kayaking on thursday" into conversation . Announcing everything you do to me sounds like an invitation or like you're trying to prove something .
When you can casually bring up that you went Kayaking and she had no clue I think it gets the hamster roaring you become a true Mystery man because you really can be doing anything anytime . Which is an awesome position to be in .
[deleted] 7y ago
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TheDialecticParadox 7y ago
Now you know a man with options is the one with the power. Being okay with walking away at any moment is a girl's worst nightmare and she will do anything you want to earn your preference.
StoicCrane 7y ago
My bro cohabitated with a chick straight out of grad school. Landed an 80k job. She moved her fat, nonworking mother on him to play "housemaid".
He quit his job because his boss was gay and got Blacklisted. They cleaned out his " joint" bank account and he ran to the military as an escape.
Sad thing is he still thinks highly of her and opted to go MGTOW because of his oneitis for her. Now he lives with my ma as a house dwelling, sports TV addicted hermit. Never Cohabitate.
DONT_reply_with_THIS 7y ago
Dude sounds like a moron. Maybe he shouldn't live with a woman. Plenty of us have a great situation going
[deleted] 7y ago
guys are morons because they were never properly guided in the formative years.
Every guy is a moron, until a man turns him into a man.
I find it best to think guidance instead of dismissiveness, this whole sub is predicated on that idea
StoicCrane 7y ago
He's still my brother. If I hadn't felt repressed and stumbled on TRP there's a good chance I'd be the same way if not worse. BP is an intangible sickness that infects and spreads through everyone it influences. After a certain point there's no coming back.
TheDialecticParadox 7y ago
If he was stupid enough to let the mum move in, and share his income with his bitch, he's a fool.
If he doesn't learn anything from such a horrible experience, he is beyond redemption. He will probably be a BP loser for the rest of his life. So fucking sad.
StoicCrane 7y ago
There's nothing I can do to break through to him either. Whenever I drop bombs like "There are no such things as soulmates" and " Men exist to spread their seed. It's even in the Bible!" He gets defensive by spouting crap about how men "should" be married by a certain age ; it's a lie and immoral to spin plates; and how he's a failure for not having a wife and kids at 33.
Most men wish they have his level of freedom. Instead of taking full advantage of it he just wastes his time feeling sorry for himself and withdraws into technology. Right now my father has stage IV cancer so I can't really be bothered with such BS when there are real issues going on in the world. This is the reality of BP. This is the best it's influence can do for men.
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homelessWOOKIE9 7y ago
fuck off its cold as shit here. I'm going skiing saturday but I would kill for a day on the lake. Enjoy
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activist118 7y ago
Lived with an LTR for a couple of months and had the same experience. But the woman cooked and cleaned for me. I would say that living with and LTR as a trial run might be a good idea if it is actually temporary and she will be living in another apartment in about a month.
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TRP_Lee_zard 7y ago
"I think what motivates most guys to live with their LTR is a constant supply of pussy(...)"
Potential supply of pussy. Let's be honest once you bust a nut the thing guy wants the most is for the chick to be gone so he can do whatever he wants. One cannot be fucking 24/7...well, not the same chick at least.
Many chicks treat sex as a 30 minute investment so that dude will spend the rest of the day (life?) with her.
TheDialecticParadox 7y ago
I disagree. I can understand booting out a ONS after busting your nut, but not an LTR.
Hence why i was talking about cohabitation with an LTR. There is a 'honeymoon' phase when you initially move in where you fuck constantly, like rabbits. Just like the guy planned. Then the gf slowly weens him off and starts to shit test more and actively put less effort in the relationship in general.
It's a trap pretty much every man falls for at least once.
empatheticapathetic 7y ago
Why does the girl ween him off? I am a complete noob btw.
pehsxten 7y ago
They get comfortable, they realize that your penis is no competition for them so it decreases their value of you.
fatalbinoninja 7y ago
That's why you then go out and bang someone hotter just for the hell of it. And when she complains tell her to keep up or gtfo.
Provided of course that you have enough money stashed away so that you can continue to afford living by yourself. If not, you better get your ass into gear and start saving.
SetConsumes 7y ago
Sex is a tool to help capture a man's heart and mind. Once that's done, which moving in with her is a large sign of, the sex is no longer needed nearly as much, it archives far less.
empatheticapathetic 7y ago
Great answer. Cheers.
I saw some random picture on Instagram earlier. Some illustration where the guy is dreaming of sex followed by money and the woman is dreaming of money followed by sex. Implying sex is easy for the woman to achieve, it comes naturally. The man has to learn to achieve and work his whole life to get anywhere worthwhile to achieve his 'standard'. That obviously includes all aspects of SMV as well as financial security. But he cares more about the sex as it's what he is doing it all for and can't attain easily and values less what he can 'supposedly' attain more naturally (the money). And the woman vice versa. She doesn't care about sex as much as money. Strange concept for a man to get his head around.
It's an obvious thing to realise but thought I'd type it out anyway.
Brixylian 7y ago
Cohabitating is fine. However, only in an RV. A man should be able to move his domicile at a moment's notice--leaving her hamstering by the side of the road. When she desperately texts/calls, you can genuinely reply, "I've moved on."
harsha_hs 7y ago
Learnt lesson hard way. Never ever this going to happen in my life again
AnjaJutta 7y ago
TLDR of entire thread: If you are a low test pushover shitsack with no life goals who eats pizza everyday and can't even lift one fourth of your bodyweight don't let her move in.
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
If that's how you want to look at it, fine.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Honestly and I'm not lying. I can bench about 325 and weight only 177 lbs and wouldn't consider cohabitating with a woman. I currently live with 3 roommates, two who have girlfriends and I would prefer to have my own space.
Eastuss 7y ago
Then you're just a low test pushover shitsack with no life goals who eats pizza everyday.
[deleted] 7y ago
How does benching 325lbs while weighing 177lbs mean I have low testosterone? That makes no fucking sense.
I'm 25 year olds and stronger than many men around my weight and age.
Eastuss 7y ago
Oh that's what low test mean... Ijust commented as a joke bro ;)
EveryNuance 7y ago
The exception to this post: Family
You can look half dead but at the end of the day, blood is blood.
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StudntRdyTeachrApear 7y ago
"Wew, glad I got that off my chest. I feel so much better now!" Sounds a bit angsty, don't you think? Lurk more.
GrabHerByThePEPE 7y ago
Check your privilege, shitlord. Read "The Selfish Gene." We are biologically predisposed to be nicer and more favorable in forming bonds with, sharing resources with, those that look like us and that we are related to. And just because 'blood is blood' as a value is imposed on most as kids, doesn't mean you can't make that value your own as an adult. For me I always hated my family growing up. Now my bond with my brother can not be surpassed. So 'blood is blood.' It's compounded by shared genetics - but our amiability/compatibility is founded on genetic and mental similarity too. TLDR: privilege=checked.
mrbluesdude 7y ago
Wow, I bet you're fun to hang out with.
[deleted] 7y ago
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maniclurker 7y ago
But god's not real, and theism is blue pill.
StillHigh09 7y ago
I lived togheter with 2 girls.
First time I wasnt redpill aware(not bluepill tho) second girl i knew about TRP.
With the first one it was really great for like first 8 months or so. Then she started to get bored or whatever.She tried to control me,massive shitesting,sex not everyday anymore etc. At first I tried to find out whats wrong and I was trying to change myself for her blabla - obviously didnt work. Then I decided to move out(we were renting togheter so no problem) - she apologized and started to try really hard to keep me around. When we kind of settled up BOOM! same situation again. Only this time I started to party hard,go out for whole nights come back drunk etc. Guess what happened? Yeah,she was jealous AF and started cooking,cleaning,taking care etc. I left her soon after anyway.
Second one I was TRP aware.She moved in to my house. From the start I proved her she can get replaced at any moment, I came out on my own whenver I wanted,said cleaning and cooking is her job,fucked her rough everyday etc. She was happy,cooking cleaning,buying me gifts and shit. The problem was that we were living in my home,so when we broke up it was kinda hard I that had to kick her out.Second problem was I didn't have a place to fuck other girls.
I'd say never let a girl move in to YOUR home. If you have a place you can go back to whenver you need,can keep frame and dont mind fucking that one girl only(or cheating on her) then you can try.
[deleted] 7y ago
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DoctorBonkus 7y ago
Crazy in the head, crazy in the bed
Whisper 7y ago
Who's "we"? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
This should be read as an opion piece.
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
I am not saying I speak for everyone. However when this subject comes up on AskTRP, i'd say almost all the replies are anti-cohabitation. Hence why I used "we".
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RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
If you want to call me a basement dweller(even though I am not), fine. Glad its working out for you. That doesn't mean it will keep working out for you. That doesn't mean it is a good idea for men.
Also its very ironic you call me a basement dweller, yet have 420 in your username.
Stinkystan420 7y ago
I only call you a basement dweller because your opinions of other people are so polar. Saying something will never work for others shows you don't have experience in dealing with others. Your post goes as far as insulting people who cohabitate but how do you know it doesn't work for them?
If you keep control of your woman it should not ever be an issue. If you have to get on one knee to beg a girl to marry you, it's not going to work. Women will cuck you or leave you or be unhappy and bitchy if you're a beta provider, so make sure that's not all you are to them. Same goes for living together.
Linoran 7y ago
Same here, been doing it for ten years and picking a sane/intelligent girl was my first priority. I still need to drop some dread though from time to time because awalt.
Venny_1 7y ago
You forgot a 3rd point, which is intertwined with the above:
The legislative bull that follows cohabitating
In a few select states (and countries I presume), once you have been cohabitating for a number of years (months), you would be viewed as being in common marriage, or just marriage, with all the perks and fun that it contains.
You want to throw her ass out of YOUR HOUSE which YOU PAID FOR? Well too bad, you can't!
Listen to these two very similar yet very different statements in court by men and women:
Woman: your honor, I got accustomed to a certain life style!! (queue the mild crying and the sad face)
Man: your honor, I got accustomed to a certain life style which I have worked my ass for. I bought this house. I bought the car. I payed for the yearly continental vacations. I bought every piece of furniture that's in the house.
Perhaps we gents here know what the right decision for a judge should be, but historically, it's rather evident that the justice system doesn't share our views on justice.
[deleted] 7y ago
I have never cohabitated with a woman and never will. This post is gold. Think about it. You have to be on your A-game 24/7, when you are living with a woman. You go to work and you have to be focused around people. Then, you have to be home and "game" her and all that.
Plus, with a woman, you want to look as attractive as possible at all times. You don't want her to see you "at your worst" when maybe you are home lounging around in sweatpants. Or maybe you had a bad night out, feel like shit and threw up a little bit. That makes you look "vulnerable."
The problem in our society is living with your girlfriend is usually considered the next step. For some guys, you then think that "hey, I'm around my girlfriend or wife all the time, so more opportunity for sex." Unfortunately, that's not how it works.
[deleted] 7y ago
Life doesn't get easier, but you can get better. This isn't a bad thing. The reason I don't like your framing here is because you're making all the manly parts of you femenine centric
you are always on point because you hold yourself to standard. I don't shower on Saturday morning because she can't see me as a mess, I do it because I'm not a lazy fuck.
If I'm doing SFA for an afternoon, it's because I want downtime, and I own it. IT's not a free morning in the schedule to fill with honeydoo tasks
Ricardo_Machista 7y ago
I look really good in sweat pants though
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
Another thing I have heard is when guys are living on there own, they get a girlfriend who wants to move in with the guy. Then they keep trying to change how HIS apartment looks.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
Well said, people will hamster this away. Even in this very post, I have a good friend who hamstered it away. First class psychopath Alpha, high value, ran tight game with his girlfriend. Claimed he'd be smooth sailing despite my warnings to watch out. Half a year after buying a house together they are close to breaking up.
It's like playing ball. Every NFL team shines in the stadium and the opponents are sometimes intimidated. But you better run a closed practice because if they even get a hint of weakness. They will swarm you on game day and make your life twice as hard.
Also remember that while living with a woman, even if you play great game. You still show her everything about you and she can't idealize that image. While she won't see everything about some other guy. That's a major advantage should she opt to cheat.
[deleted] 7y ago
Exactly and the sad thing is how many guys are hamstring it away by saying "but me and my girlfriend have been living together and it's great, so it's not always bad." True, but eventually things will get bad and it will be harder to break up and eventually, sex will slow down and she will start nagging. Then it's harder to break up when you guys signed a lease.
Plus, there is something about just being able to sleep in your own bed every night and being not having to be on your "A game" at every moment. Also being able to watch what you want and not what she wants. I just don't see myself being able to sleep in the same bed as someone else every single night. Heck, even high value men need their own space and get cheated on.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
It's the most ridiculous reasoning and I expected more of red pill men. You hear this hamstring from Beta men. "Yes but she's different so not every woman is like that". It's the guy still being ego invested and stuck in a Beta loop off no progress.
I get you brother, it takes allot of energy to work a woman good and you just need a break for that. Time away makes the heart grow fonder so while you are recharging she's aching for more. It just benefits you more.
The only thing you secure by living together is losing SMV points and Alpha points daily as she slowly disassembles you and dictates your life. Then when the time comes for breaking up you need to do a whole lot of bullshit to fix it. I can't even imagine having fights. Living solo means you can send her out or walk out the door if you are at her place. Now you're stuck in the same house. Can't do fuck all.
RedPillHanSolo 7y ago
This is golden. This is "why". This is why it's way harder for you to "keep" her (for the lack of better word) than for another guy to "take" her.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
Yeah well said man. This falls nicely in line with the saying "When a girl has a boyfriend, you are only competing with him. When a girl is single, you are competing with every guy out there"
The dating market is nothing but a competitive game, to be played and won. Guys like to pretend that the game stops when they get the girl but it never does. All of us either play it until we drop dead or we quit.
The more she's around you the more real you become. And women hate reality, they like fantasy. That's why they are so crazy when Alpha Widowed. It's nothing but a hyper idealized fantasy that will never be. If you have this on the one hand then living together with her boyfriend is the exact opposite.
new__vision 7y ago
Think about what this implies: that you're not good enough unless you actively 'game' her. I used to believe this - let me tell you what I've learned.
--
If you truly believed you were a high-value man, you
wouldn't have to exert any effort to keep attraction[Edited because it takes effort to stay on your path as a man]. It would just come across naturally in your presence and behavior. She would sense that you're on your path.--
RSD Tyler recently compared passive attraction to knowing how to fight: "It's like a guy who knows self-defense. People sense he can fight so he never has to. It just comes across in his vibe and nobody fucks with him."
--
A high value man doesn't worry about looking 'as attractive as possible at all times' around his woman. He knows his value and is not ashamed of his vulnerabilities.
--
If you are afraid to wear sweatpants around a woman then you need to
date higher-quality womenbecome more at ease with yourself. [Edit: I used to be afraid to wear sweatpants and 'be real' around women I dated. This gave off the vibe that I wasn't comfortable with myself and killed attraction.]If you can't date high-quality women, get more reference experiences until
theythe experiences start to support the idea that you're high-value. I'm speaking from experience.-- Edit: I'm not trying to put anyone down. Just sharing what I've learned going from frustration to someone with an abundance of choice with women.
-- Edit 2: What I'm saying is: If you don't see yourself as high-value enough to just relax around a woman you're dating without trying to get attraction, ask yourself why and either change that or prove it wrong. I was there too. I was terrified of letting her see the "real" me wearing sweatpants. This gave off the vibe that I wasn't comfortable with myself and killed attraction. In the end, do what's best for your growth as a man.
[deleted] 7y ago
Game doesn't get easier, you get better
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
I've seen what you described. Guy believes he's 'just good enough' and he doesn't need to actively game his chick. He cruises through life and points to all his friends 'look I don't have to do shit, it just works'. I was that guy.
Then one day she doesn't react like she used to. She's not that into it, she doesn't want to fuck. Something in her behavior is off. Now he has no idea what to do. 'She will come back around, I'm the shit!' But she doesn't and after a while fights break out and the guy is clueless.
It's easy to say that you just need to be high value and for her to know it. But all that does is give you borrowed time for when she won't respond to that anymore. It's like saying your castle is impenetrable without setting up proper defenses and drills. All you're doing is waiting for the moment to get attacked.
Any guy who believes this day will never come is delusional.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yup. It never becomes natural. There are no real chads. All men have a tendency towards beta behavior while in a relationship and it takes conscious effort to not backslide.
[deleted] 7y ago
Exactly and the thing is I can't 100% blame men for want to get "comfortable." It's easier and you think because you have a girlfriend, you have pussy on tap, which isn't the case. I'm not saying never wear sweatpants around a woman.
I was just using an example of how a woman you live with, will nitpick you for certain things or behaviors you show. Over time, those behaviors can very well turn her off sexually.
new__vision 7y ago
Good point. I've been though this exact scenario. In my case I was stagnant, and therefore not actually providing value. I thought I was hot shit because I had played a high profile concert and started a career with a nice salary, but I wasn't giving her good emotions or being masculine. I was just depending on these external things for my 'value'.
Not saying your case is the same, just my experience. So I agree, but maybe we have different definitions of 'actively game his chick'. I'm going to revise my original post, since I don't think you have to actively game in the old-school definition, but I think you need to stay on top of yourself as a man.
I appreciate the feedback here because it helps me sharpen my ideas.
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
It's like a roleplaying game, you can put 'points' in every attribute and ability. You don't have to but doing so will drastically increase your effectiveness in combat. Same for chicks. You can choose to just improve your SMV, you can choose which areas of SMV. Other can choose to increase SMV slightly less but game slightly more. It's all up to you as an individual. Just don't ignore certain attributes all together. I once played a game where I never put shit in health points and the final boss kept insta-killing me. Your girlfriend is that final boss.
Great attitude, with that alone you are securing yourself a top 20% spot. If not already, then one day in the future. Most people angrily take on a defensive stance and end up learning nothing from eachother.
[deleted] 7y ago
So what is different about you that makes you so high value that even if you cohabitate with a woman, things will be better or won't change than they were before you do? That's what I'm wondering because you say that being a high value man is enough for a woman.
The problem in this society is woman can laid by just swiping right, so you have to be improving yourself. I just think shacking up with a woman isn't really worth the risk these days. It used to be
new__vision 7y ago
I'm just trying to say that I used to relate to this:
But having that attitude drove women away because they sensed I wasn't comfortable with myself. I was always trying to keep the attraction alive, which killed it. They would quickly drop me when they found another guy who was more comfortable with himself.
When I learned to just be at ease around women and not try to micromanage my image, women began to desire me more in both the short and the long term. I learned in LTRs that hiding parts of myself was unattractive.
Example: I go to the hottest club in my major city. Every weekend there's tons of girls on the dance floor, and a bunch of tall, jacked guys lining the walls staring at the girls. These buff handsome dudes are too afraid to look silly.
I'm a short skinny pale dude and I just storm the dance floor doing a ridiculous dance and immediately get smiles and playful touches from girls. One starts dancing on me. These tough guys look upset because they don't understand why I'm getting the reactions when they are taller and better looking.
It's because I learned to be more comfortable with myself just by going out and embarrassing myself and getting rejected for a long time. The tall dudes aren't giving value.
And I wouldn't cohabitate unless I wanted to start a family.
PM_Your_8008s 7y ago
That's great and all but people are here to learn how to get there so acting like everyone is retarded for not already being there is strange
[deleted] 7y ago
Plus, everybody has a different idea of who a high value man is. Some people would say that a high value man is someone like Bill Gates, who has a lot of money and accomplished a lot in his life.
At the same time, they might think the jacked dude at the gym, who is in great shape, but not even close to having that kind of money, as being a high value man. There are many different aspects to being high value.
I'm in really good shape and take care of myself, but I'm not the most popular man out there. That is something I want to improve on, along with my career.
new__vision 7y ago
That's a good point. I like what Owen Cook says in the Blueprint Decoded about what value is:
new__vision 7y ago
I'm not trying to put anyone down. Just sharing what I've learned going from a frustrated loner to someone with an abundance of choice with women.
I touched on how you get there at the end with reference experiences.
PM_Your_8008s 7y ago
Right, and I agree with a lot of what you said. I guess the "acting like everyone is retarded" line was a little out of my ass. I'm just saying a lot of your post was about how confidence is really all you need but that's the case when you're high SMV. A low SMV guy pretending to be super confident might win some points but I don't think it's everything, especially when real confidence isn't irrational, it's knowing that you can actually back up what you feel so confident about. Like the guy in your fighting analogy, nobody fucks with him because he knows how to fight and people can sense it. Doesn't work as well when someone's just fronting that they can fight when they have no idea how. I guess it comes down to if you consider any guy inherently high value if they just act like they are.
edit: some words
new__vision 7y ago
This is a really good point. There's definitely more to being high-value than just thinking you are. I think you have to 'know' that you are. The guy who thinks he can fight vs the guy that knows he can fight. The guy who knows he can fight probably knows that because has experience winning fights.
I think that to 'know' you have to base it on experience. I like what Julien Blanc says about this in Shift:
This is how I personally went from thinking I was a piece of shit to having confidence. It's basically cognitive behavioral therapy.
[deleted] 7y ago
As someone who mostly looks at this sub for humor, I never had an issue. I've been married for 9 years, dated the woman for 3 prior, and cohabitated for a good 1.5 of those.
There were times we argued, but as a diagnosed APD, arguments were done quickly. It wasn't because I "held frame", it was because I know logic and am naturally dominant. To all who read this post, if you truly think it will work, go for it. Don't let backward Christian norms dissuade you.
There is some good advice on this sub, specifically in the Rules of Power. However, do not pretend to be an alpha. Yes, you can succeed and hold down some beta-behaviors; but let's be real, many if not most of you will only ever aspire to be better. Sometimes you NEED a strong woman to build you up.
I'm now a PhD, competitive bodybuilder, and teach self defense. When we met, I was still taking pride in toying with people as if they were tools or toys and seeing people as little more than steps on a staircase. This behavior was attenuated after "cohabitating" and has since been refined.
If you want to cohabitate, do so. If you truly think it is the best option, it may very well be. It's not lessening your status as a male or anything of the sort; if anything, it's strengthening your resolve and showing your weaknesses so you may fix them.
Vitamin_Red 7y ago
What if you have kids but don't want to cohabitate? How would that work out?
__Finnster__ 7y ago
How deplorable, I don't need you to tell me what to do you neo nazi!
[deleted] 7y ago
Urgh... SMF may be a bit out there(I mean, a lot), but it is not the time or place to poststalk.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Olga_Schmutzer 7y ago
This.
Happened to me as well, while I still lived on my own. Toothbrush here, umbrella there, some other makeup-shit overthere, and a scarf sometimes.
Cohabitation wasn't even allowed there (since it was some kind of student-housing), so no real risk. But I do recall the arguments we had once I asked her to take her stuff with her.
Eastuss 7y ago
On the other hand, that kind of progressive relocation is better than something instant. You have time to accommodate and to see bad things coming. If you've not noticed it then that's just you being oblivious.
max_peenor 7y ago
I just do see why anyone would fucking sign a lease with someone to which they are already legally entangled. It's fucking retarded for both parties. It isn't like the non-signatory wouldn't be on the hook for damages they commit or required to pay half the rent.
TRPtruth 7y ago
This is off a bit. The rule should be don't cohabitate if you can't walk away. If you are in a lease with her and can't kick her to the curb and continue to pay the bills and stay there comfortably, then you should not be doing it.
If you can't handle enforcement of boundaries you shouldn't be cohabitating.
If she is running your life you should not be cohabitating.
Basically, you should be fitting her into your world. If it's the other way around...you squeezing into her world...you are fucked regardless of where you live.
And if you are considering marriage you are a fucking dumbshit if you don't live with her first. It's the only way for you to get her true colors to come out before you marry her and sign your life away.
[deleted] 7y ago
This is much more accurate than the drivel OP is spouting. You also get to know her peeves and how you can, if you can, hide them to avoid unnecessary drama in the future.
steakhause 7y ago
There's a terrific Seinfeld on this matter from Kramer.
https://youtu.be/vzLmm0wa0Hs
BroseppeVerdi 7y ago
I watched my father follow this rule to the letter and not cohabitate until marriage. All of these things happened in both marriages and he got divorce raped twice. I hate to break it to you, OP, but marriage can and often is the very same thing. A ring and a piece of paper won't make a hamster not a hamster. Swing and a miss.
TitsAndWhiskey 7y ago
Doesn't sound to me like he's advocating marriage either
ReddittFeist 7y ago
Let's face it, alone is better for the red pill guys who don't yet have the massive frame required to cohabitate successfully. But also, cohabitation is gonna happen, no matter how much alpha wannabes who don't "get" frame say it's a bad idea.
Anyhow, since cohabitation is gonna happen even among guys who shouldn't be doing it, in the spirit of Harm Reduction, here's a guide on how to safely live with a woman and not fuck up your life irreparably:
http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2015/02/19/how-to-move-in-with-a-woman/
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[deleted] 7y ago
Most importantly, in a lot of states there's common law marriage.
MrMelbourne 7y ago
I am single but one thing I have thought about is that if I was to get into an LTR, I would surreptitious plant tracking devices in her car (and/or mine if she drove mine) and also look at a keylogger for the computer and even some sort of hidden camera for the home.
Because when the cat (you, the guy) is away the mouse can get tempted to play.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Complete and utter bollocks! I've never read so much fucking inaccurate shit in my life. My Fiancee and I live together. Our relationship is solid and we're a just as good as married. Marriage is just a concept. I don't need a pen and paper to prove my love to her and vice versa.
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
Good for you. Just because its worked for you, doesn't mean its a good idea for most men. I can go buy a million dollars worth of lottery tickets, and even if I win, that doesn't mean it was a good idea.
[deleted] 7y ago
well what happens if she decides to divorce rape you? Everybody thinks there relationship will never fail, until it does.
favours_of_the_moon 7y ago
Depends, who's paying the rent? lol
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
That's a good point. Imagine living with a woman and you go out one night and you bring a woman home, she might start stirring up drama. There is also the whole possibly having to hear her have sex.
Borsao66 7y ago
Meh.... whatever.
I have a micro house that I lived in for two years and I love it. Plus it's paid for an rent/mortgage/utility free.
She knows at the first sign of bull shit I'll be in the wind like a loose kite.
It's the ultimate dread.
SuckMyFist 7y ago
The reality is that letting a bitch live at your place rent free is the number one way to transfer money from a man to a woman.
In this sick feminist society of ours, females are more valuable than males, that's why we have to pay, one way or another, deal with it.
Theories should adapt to the real world, not the other way around.
lolligagger3000 7y ago
The only dude I knew that could do this was a guy I knew who was a natural alpha.
He was a commercial pilot with a very, very long route, being outside the country for 3-7 days wasn't weird at all and came home with a very decent amount of money. His wife knew he was surrounded by hot female staff of the time.
There you have marriage+cohabitation+dread.
DigitallyDisrupt 7y ago
She was spending the money he worked hard for, while away from home to earn AND fucking Chad down the street. There you have marriage+ husband absent.
[deleted] 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0412
[deleted] 7y ago
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PantsonFire1234 7y ago
Tho the danger with that is that it increases the likelihood for her to cheat. Which means you need to invest less emotionally in her. Still no biggy, but it's an adjustment you have to make unless you want to be cucked.
johnchapel 7y ago
Lets be honest, OP.
Good post btw.
INTJokes 7y ago
Not impossible. Bring home a different girl and fuck her in front of your gf.
tallwheel 7y ago
All you really need to do is be higher SMV than her, and don't be too overly affectionate and attached, and you've got built-in dread even while cohabiting.
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