"Why even happy couples cheat" is a talk from Esther Perel, and I found it on the Sex Positive sub-reddit. Anyone reading TRP should read her book Mating in Captivity in a Straussian way. Although the book is superficially about how to maintain an erotic spark in a long-term relationship, a better reading is simpler and, for many men, harsher: All long-term relationships eventually curdle. Partners get bored with each other. Boredom is baked into the structure of relationships.
In other words, you can expect cheating or misery or both from long-term relationships of sufficient duration. The only way out is not to engage in them (or, possibly, to engage in them at a much older age: 40+ at a bare minimum).
"Why Even Happy Couples Cheat" is an extension of the book: They cheat because cheating is a way of avoiding both the trade-offs of relationships (security, reliability) and being single (novelty, fun).
The important point, however, is not about the why "happy" couples cheat, but about what lessons you should incorporate into your own life:
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Don't get married. This should be obvious.
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If someone tells you the baby is yours, make sure a DNA test proves it.
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Always have a contingency plan in any relationship. You're only as good as your options.
- Don't live together. This one is personally important because a couple weeks ago I told a woman I was dating that I didn't want to live with a woman again. She was flabbergasted and wanted to know why. I explained that I think sex is better and relationships are better with distance. This strategy is less economical, but I'd rather live in a tiny studio on my own than a palatial two- or three-bedroom apartment with someone else. I also lived with a woman in my 20s and had two kids with her. I made the usual mistakes but I avoided two very important ones: I never married her and we never bought property together. Owning property in today's day and age is slavery, not freedom. When our relationship ended, I could just leave the lease. I got reamed through the usual ways with child "support," but I could still leave by letting the lease end and avoided giving up more money through alimony.
The latest woman and I broke up because the relationship "wasn't going anywhere." To me, it was its own reward, but that wasn't true for her. I actually respect her for the solid breakup and no backsliding.
- Most people have no idea what they actually want. I'm not an exception to this. You probably aren't either.
I think we're undergoing a slow but real realignment of the fundamental structure of society. You can fight it or accept it. I used to fight and think I was different. I'm not.
Also, you have to realize that you're going to cheat or be cheated on. The question is: Which?
There is no viable modern alternative to learning game.
zandd23 9y ago
"Don't Live Together"
This one's big. Kudos to you for avoiding some common mistakes in your 20's. I wasn't as fortunate/skilled. Did the marriage thing, suffered big financial loss, etc, etc.
Although sex is definitely better living apart, for me, it's more about enjoying solitude, and having a space that is mine and mine alone.
I'm a big believer in the general rule of thumb of seeing a woman once a week(nod to Blackdragon:http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2014/08/07/frequently-asked-dating-relationship-questions-and-objections/)
I'm in my 50's and have been in an LTR for 3 years. I've certainly varied the frequency over the course of that time, but once a week has probably been the overall average.
For the first time in my life, I have a very strong frame in this relationship, so GF has never even mentioned living together(assuming it's something she even wants).
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
It isn't paid to the child and isn't audited. It's paid to the mother to do with as she sees fit.
Thus it is not child support but mother support.
foldpak111 9y ago
I wish people would get it through their heads that women who take child support use it to pamper themselves. As an infant I remember when my mother was taking child support. I didn't see a dime of it. I do remember her having nice things, though (surprise).
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
A girl I know said "I don't know what I'm going to do to support myself when my child leaves home and I no longer get child support".
aBitClearer 9y ago
See my comment above. You just can't make this shit up!
aBitClearer 9y ago
On this very day, I (well, my company) received notice from my county's child support dept. that all child support payments are now to be paid from my employer (me). It is such a waste of taxpayer money. I'm not behind on payments, and this is only part of my ex's scorched-earth policy regarding me. This money is the ONLY income my ex makes and she's trying to get more, since she only has a little more than a year and a half left before her little cash cow (our daughter) turns 18!
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
Well, here's a funny trick you can play.
Tell her privately that you're concerned about her welfare after child support, and that you'd like to help after it ends. As the time approaches, ask her to draw up an agreement... quibble a few things, while always telling her how important her welfare is.
Then... when child support ends.... it's time for her to be on the receiving end of a trick that women absolutely love called "make them wait then change your mind". Except now she has no plan B because she's lazy.
You were always promised that you would win in the end, now's your chance.
aBitClearer 9y ago
Yeah well, that's a nice fantasy, but I'll never talk to that cunt again if I can help it, and she'd never believe that anyways.
But thanks for the pleasant daydream!
theultimatewarriors 9y ago
Also a huge warning sign from that Author helped me see a new pattern that is absolutely friggin true and I haven't seen around theredpill or any popular male blogs or game sites. The fact that a close death in a woman is usually a high risk point for cheating and risky sexual behavior (quick slut phases to battle the emotion of loss which has been written about especially after relationships).
Most women who engage in risky sexual behavior have loss at their core emotion (hmm, daddy issues?). Usually a slight underlying obsession with death and being alone when they die. They use sex as the only thing that makes them feel alive and avoid facing the underlying cause of the emotion, they will simply try anything to change the emotion first (and this will not be sex with whoever is providing security, especially a husband or boyfriend) it will be extremely risky sex especially with a high risk partner or a random stranger even preferring often to keep it anonymous (again, high risk partner).
If your wife, girlfriend or other long term partner has just experienced the loss or death of someone close, or is talking about being alone at the end of life, ALARM BELLS SHOULD GO OFF, YOU ARE IN A HIGH RISK SCENARIO FOR UNEXPLAINABLE CHEATING AND FIGHTING THAT SHE CANNOT EVEN UNDERSTAND EXCEPT THAT IT WAS A WAY TO FEEL ALIVE..
I don't know if there's any strategy's there that are successful, but you should absolutely be aware of the situation.
[deleted] 9y ago
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theultimatewarriors 9y ago
Unfortunately I came across the author because of experiences. I wish books could be king for me, but inevitably I'm the guy that reads "Ovens burn you when you touch them" and think to myself I bet oven mitts, plus dipping quickly in water, plus moving your hands back and forth quickly could get around this, especially if I avoid the really risky parts... and then come back and write a post explaining "reminder, ovens will burn you, you are not special".
Source: stuck my dick in crazy and moved in even with repeated warnings not too no matter how attractive and no matter how great the sex was, I did not listen.
I found this woman after a relationship where the girl had mentioned "we all die alone" a few times and then was asking "why does cheating feel so good". My luck is amazing, and my experiences... well I've gotten to write a lot for others to learn, hahaha.
[deleted] 9y ago
All relationships end. The pussy isnt yours, its just your turn. They all come and go. This is why I dont understand redpillers who do ltrs. Seems like a waste of time to me. All women cheat. We are not a monogamous species, especially not women.
CryptoManbeard 9y ago
I enjoy my LTR. My kids know and like her, we do fun activities together. She compliments my life in a way that gets me to do things I wouldn't normally do or have access to (suburban mom type stuff for the kids that no one would invite the single dad too). I also enjoy the emotional connection we have during sex, it's much more meaningful than just banging a slut.
[deleted] 9y ago
There's nothing wrong with a LTR if you treat it like a month to month lease. Towards the end of each month reevaluate and if it's working for you, renew. If not, move on.
TheReformist94 9y ago
If its your turn,don't forget to have your cake and eat it too like they do,so cheat on them as well. Women cope with monogamy worse than men.
[deleted] 9y ago
I'm never going to commit to them, so it won't be cheating.
TheReformist94 9y ago
when youre fucking a girl, sometimes you dont want other men putting their dick in her. so you get her to commit, then you fuck on the side. maximise your shit. if you get caught, let the shit blow up, and walk off with no fucks given like they do.
[deleted] 9y ago
Other men are gonna be putting their dick in her regardless. Women are not loyal.
theultimatewarriors 9y ago
The core male emotion of testosterone is usually "I'll be the one to figure it out and break through." Most have to learn through painful experiences or from teachings from males they can witness the behavior from. Those who were never shown by another male in their life usually just have to experience it for themselves.
I know I will forever end a relationship at the 8 months point since that seems the sweet spot for making them crave you and being ok becoming a plate later. Harsh, but honestly it's just a protection from my own faulty behavior and recognizing I have a propensity to commit to women who will take me for granted. At least this way the actual interactions between us will remain even instead of blowing up in the otherwise inevitable end at the 3 year point for most relationships (when the neurotransmitters switch unless you've ran a great game, including dread). But the sex you want is going to be peaked at 8 months unless you pull the switch. She will feel like sex is a favor in the dread game anyways, and Bambi eyes and insane emotions will be gone from sex if you're including any emotional game or anything that isn't just FWBs.
That's as far as I've got in my own personal experiences anyways.
[deleted] 9y ago
I'll keep a relationship going as long as Its comfortable for me. I really dont want anything from a woman besides sex. Anything else I can provide for myself. I'll have fun with the girl forever long it lasts. Once it ends, on to the next one. If they come back, great. If not, great. Always more out there.
theultimatewarriors 9y ago
I agree with what you're saying you want as the outcome. Sex. I'm also saying that generally an amazing strategy for getting the really insane dirty girl sex and keeping them around without feeling like garbage if they're a high quality woman, is to give some small amount of emotional investment, or even saying things like "I want to open up to you but I know you're going to hurt me" to give them that drama they crave and hits that addictive side of her where she may even recognize that you aren't good for her, but she still will crave you. 8 months is the spot where I've recognized things usually being at their craziest and I'll pull away and give them some new emotional drama like "I'm afraid to commit and have been hurt in the past" or something else crazy that feeds that addictive emotion and then the next time you get together, that sex almost spikes up even crazier and becomes this addictive thing for them. You also have to have other girls in the picture. Don't tell them outright about them, but girls in these stages are absolutely more driven by jealousy than they are by love when it comes to sex (obvious point in this sub). This will enable both sides of their brain though to become obsessed with you and every fantasy you said you have they are going to try and come back and do (there will be more fights too, but that's part of the drama a lot of them want like it's some shitty reality TV show). It's ridiculous, but this is what a lot of the women have become, they only understand jealousy and using sex to get what they want when they don't have it or as a way to ease the peace and makeup.
[deleted] 9y ago
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theultimatewarriors 9y ago
Yeah, I'm not saying to do this as a matter of always, if there's a quality woman who you do actually want a relationship with and actually has a healthy emotional self-esteem and understands that it's ok to both want dirty sex and want to work towards things as a couple putting your efforts together (like kids or marriage or threesomes or traveling) then by all means, the woman who has a healthy self-esteem is not gonna deal with this. You'll already know though because those girls are generally not going to come out and try to make you their soul mate in the first 8 months anyways. It's almost the same as a male that can understand he has both alpha and beta tendencies. Some of them from both sides are healthy (beta things like focusing on something outside of yourself helps us build a world we believe in, but is awful if we build it towards a girl, or constantly being aggressive and not caring what anyone thinks is great right to the point of running a business where your cofounder is telling you that the decision has too much risk for the possible reward). Some women actually understand themselves, but it's honestly even more rare than the guys who read about going from one side to the other, because most guys who come to that point were forced to by pain and have to push through and get better to get past it (anger phase), and most women never go through that and they get shunned if they tell their friends they want to please their man better or something because that means she's breaking ranks and most won't do it unless the man they are with is the biggest star in her life, and she doesn't have any social loss (girls groups with a queen bee or high drama).
Honestly, the biggest insight I'll get for a lot of any of the behavior is women and their friends. If her friends have big influence in her life and they have drama, there's a great chance this will work. Women friendships are so ridiculous. They're brutal. For men, if we fuck up, we just get a weird look from a woman and then move on to the next girl, for women, if they fuck up with each other once, they're out of the friend group and not getting invited to anything. Once you realize they're emotions swing crazier with men, you realize you can chill to up anticipation 1000x harder than they're used to, or you can up the fighting and drama to swing them the other way and they can go to their friends and they can all try to interpret all the texts and exactly what was said and the entire time most of them eat it up because it's better than the TV shows they watched and the dumb drama they tried to create on 'Girls Night Out' to get those emotions anyways. A lot of them that you meet out at night are actively seeking it if they're 21-28.
makeshift98 9y ago
It's not that it's bad to have ltrs, it's just that people have unrealistic expectations for them. Pair-bonding is completely natural and even required every now and then for emotional well-being. It is, however, temporary, and every relationship will end
ShowtimeBrodin 9y ago
I agree with you. In some cultures the word marriage doesn't mean what it does in our western society. Some couples are married only for an evening as long as they are in the same house, and they are free to leave and go to another woman or man. There is no or little jealousy involved. Everyone cares for the children in that tribe, because everyone is the father and mother of the kids.
This kind of society is usually female dominated, and there is no need for TRP. The way I see it, TRP is something necessary due to cultural beliefs. Because our society is so individualistic, we are possessive. We want to own a woman and a child as if they are property.
Your children are never your children. They are only children of life's longing for itself.
I also want to add that due to our cultural beliefs and individualistic society it is hard to form a pair. Women are shamed for their sexuality and men are not. No wonder we need sexual strategy to bypass this broken system, that's what TRP is to me.
[deleted] 9y ago
Pair bonding is emotional investment on a mans end. Women don't appreciate it or respect it. Why do it?
[deleted] 9y ago
They can temporarily appreciate it, but like a spoiled child they grow accustomed. I think that was makeshift's point. They grow to resent it once the expiration date begins to surface, but there were times that it was useful. As a high value man remains in an ltr it's a bit like cutting his wrists open. Sure he's fine at first, but give it time.
[deleted] 9y ago
I am in a LTR atm. I consider it to be an experiment, the girl even knows this. It is seeing whether knowledge can subdue emotions and control the investment that you put in.
Pair bonding is an emotional investment from both ends. That I believe truly, especially if you are a demanding fucker like I am.
Let's just say that I have not done washing, cooking, cleaning, hoovering or anything of that nature for months. On the other hand, I have been going out with my mates, seeing my friends, getting shit done at work. This of course does come with a negative side with shit tests flowing your way every now and then, but that is to be expected. I waive at the shit tests as they pass me by.
EDIT: The girl is in her early 20s and is working full time as well.
Is it easier being single? OH FUCK YEAH... Is it more enjoyable being in an LTR? It's different... At the point in my life I am right now... a LTR seems to fit, but I am under no illusions that it will keep. That's why I want to see how this experiment concludes.
[deleted] 9y ago
Ill save you time bro: It cant. Women will be women. I dont trust women, but I trust a woman to be a woman. And Idk, I'm kinda fucked in the head so I've never really felt that longing for pair bonding most men do. I really do not feel anything for a girl but lust. Makes spinning plates easier, but my lack of empathy makes things kinda boring. I plan on staying single forever.
[deleted] 9y ago
Nothing wrong with that. I was like that until 6 months back. I do not have bad stories from women that ache me inside and have a loving and still supportive mother. Grew with loads of women and strong men around. I can kind of understand their thinking. It's simplistic, emotional and at times it resembles that of a child especially when they are upset, but don't know, just kind of been always what I expected from them.
[deleted] 9y ago
Haha I don't either. A lot trpers see my posts and think "wow he really hates women, he must have been hurt by one" but I don't really have any negative experiences with women. Maybe annoying shit but nothing that bothers me too much. No woman could hurt me emotionally anyways. And yeah my momma loves me too, that's my 1st lady. Only woman I don't regard as replaceable. I understand their thinking too, but most men , even redpillers, don't understand the deep darkness and sociopathic irrational nature of women. Even redpillers don't realize how fucked women are. I've always expected nothing but silly women shit from them too. As a little boy, I had no delusions about female nature. Honestly, I hate women but it doesn't come from a place of vitriol or anger. Just disgust by how useless they are besides sex or babies.
[deleted] 9y ago
I guess it depends on your experiences as well. I had mostly average experiences. Neither good nor bad. But I have been lucky to work with good strong women, definitely you know on the right side of the standard deviation curve, which shows me a good strong side to some of them. At the end of the day if we are to talk about female nature, it's always AWALT which of course I'm indifferent to and when it comes to them as individuals, they are mostly average/bad, but the same stands for men. The only difference is loyalty, which you are far more likely to find in a man.
Il128 9y ago
It's not fucking rocket science.
AWALT.
Women cheat because they have a very deep primal drive to fuck alphas and to fuck around.
Expecting a woman not to cheat on you is about as valid as asking her not to breathe.
TheReformist94 9y ago
Women clearly have a desire to spread their seed/sow their oats as much as men.its men complaining about infidelity these days,not women.
Phiend4Phoes 9y ago
Must be another result of this "equality" we keep hearing tales about.
TheReformist94 9y ago
its not a result of equality. women arent encouraged to do this. theyre not trying to behave like men or compete. they genuinely want to do it. theyre not fucking to fit in. if they didnt enjoy fucking around it wouldnt be so hard to keep em off the CC and the chances of having a decent LTR very slim
mehdreamer 9y ago
Regarding something related to the subject : I have a question to you OP and all of you guys. I am convinced that TRP is real but there's only one thing that I maybe conisder, a flaw or a weakness in the TRP philosophy...but I'm not sure since I didn't find any answer to it yet. I am still new to TRP..
How can we maintain life (Keep having children) while following the TRP rule : Never marry, NO LTR but only plates...and never live together
Isn't TRP a dead end to humanity ?
Thanks for helping me clear the question up
[deleted] 9y ago
Why do you expect there to be an answer? Religions attempt to give a coherent set of rules such that if you abide by them, then you and society are better off and God is happy.
TRP is not a religion, it does not promise to offer the sure-fire set of rules that let you have it all.
The TRP rule "never marry" is not actually a TRP rule, it's just what a lot of members have decided (and I am in agreement). Does this present a problem when it comes to having children? Yes, because children should be raised in two-parent families, under a married father and mother.
But our societies have wrecked the family unit by making marriage an terrible deal for men. So...make your choice, one thing or another, don't expect to have both and for it to turn out well, because realistically, it will not.
RPmatrix 9y ago
nobody here's saying, "don't have kids" .... just be very careful who you have them with and don't get married, Regardless.
mehdreamer 9y ago
But is having kids without living with the mother, is somethign viable? Having kids and keep having plates is it doable?
NietzscheExplosion 9y ago
Here's how ( I will do a big post someday):
Make sure she has job. Has money. If she wants property she buys it. You absolutely keep ALL Finances separate. If she makes a lot less than you, never live with her.
Ideally when you meet her she has her own house, she is making good income or better than you, she is hungry for a family, not just kids(hard to gage).
Women make men check all these fukin boxes, so in truth men need to make women check these boxes. If you cannot find a woman that is willing to check these boxes, fuk em and forget about it. You are the one taking the risk as the person that will be on the hook for a few hundred a month when she changes her mind.
Definitely NEVER get married. That was the only mistake I made ( that cost a few thousand). Even though I fked that up I was easily able to walk away financially (no kids yet), by having separate money and equal assets already. My other LTR, I literally walked away from without incident because it was her house and she did not want to risk losing half to me.
RPmatrix 9y ago
Now you're asking questions that will take a Lifetime to answer .... is kids and plates doable? There are a few EC's here doing just that as I type!
nevva_Again 9y ago
I know exactly what I want in my life. I know what I want in a woman. I know what I want in my business....
I may not be able to state them in explicit terms, but I can tell when something is not what I want.
Girls are not stupid. They know what they want. They perfectly know what they are doing when keep you in their orbit while chad gets them every night.
They want you to believe that they don't know what they really want so that you'll forgive their sluttiness, especially when you are their perfect Beta Bux.
''Oh she didn't know what she was doing... She was just young and insecure... She was just finding herself...'', says the male hamster.
Both the male and female hamster have one principal purpose, to rationalize, excuse and pardon bad female behaviour.
Check your manster...
[deleted] 9y ago
True. I know exactly what I want. Pussy, whenever I want it. That's all I want from a woman. Women want alphas. They don't think it usually, but they feel it in their pussy.
powerwinch 9y ago
Esther perel advocates forgiveness for infidelity, nothing she says is of substance
sir_wankalot_here 9y ago
The sign of a mental midget
So you disregaed everything else she says ? That is a sign of retardation. Einstien was clueless about airplane wing design, therefore I didnt bother reading his book on relativity.
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[deleted] 9y ago
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[deleted] 9y ago
Accepting a woman's right to AF/BB while simultaneously restricting men's sexual opportunity is absolutely a goal of feminism
[deleted] 9y ago
Feminism is the political embodiment of the female imperative.
[deleted] 9y ago
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trptwerp 9y ago
I agree, Neo's posts are of that tone.
[deleted] 9y ago
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[deleted] 9y ago
lol, the masculine role is to call bullshit on stuff.
how funny would it be if that was the sole value that only he could provide
0xdada 9y ago
That's it in a nutshell.
Boys without fathers seek out validation anywhere they can find it. There are lots of people and organizations offering you validation if you just become their zombie bitch. Gangs are probably the most psychologically healthy, given that at least they are populated by other boys and men.
[deleted] 9y ago
Agree, this is just a book to promote the authors opinion of open relationships being the way to go. Social engineering might be pointing us in that direction, I don't care. If I get in a serious relationship I don't cheat. Never have never will. The big kick is I never found a woman good enough to have anything serious with, all were either pump and dump or fuck and chuck material and none knew me longer than 2 months (corrected that from 1 month, remembered that one).
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TheReformist94 9y ago
women are not hardwired for monogamy. they are worse suited than men. around 6months, they get a serious itch to fuck someone else. they get bored of the same cock sooner than you get bored of one pussy when youve fallen in love. dont underestimate their craving for variety.
[deleted] 9y ago
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Areu4realm8 9y ago
Women are hardwired to seek many mates too.
[deleted] 9y ago
Esther is a Jewish name. Jewish. Done and done.