Cross posting form asktrp as it may be beneficial for users here as well. Mods please remove if it is not appropriate material. Thank you.
To give some back ground - Currently, I am approaching 30 and making good money which is only going to get better as I move up the corporate ladder. Also, I have been in a relationship with a beautiful girl who I could see being a great wife and mother someday.
With that said, I have been a lurker on trp for about a year now, so most of the theology has really set in with me. I know about how terrible the odds are for successful marriages, that women general start nagging more and get fat once you give them a ring, and how men are getting screwed out of their assets in divorce court (which is a real concern when you start making money over $100k and not to mention that a large portion of prenups get thrown out in court). Even with all of that - I can't help but wonder if marriage might still be the right move or not.
We all face the same battle against age and it is easy for some high school kid or college kid to get on an online message board and talk about 'spinning plates brah' for the rest of their life, but life is much more complex and dynamic than that:
+My friends are all getting married and tend to only hang out with other couples or married people.
+I would like to have children and my kids need to be raised by a mother with good values and not some bimbo plate.
+It is nice having someone special that really understands you and what you are going through in work/life.
+It is nice to have someone to bring around family/home for holiday events (Christmas, Thanksgiving etc.)
Additionally, to be quite frank, I don't have time to spin multiple plates any more. Far too interested and too busy trying to make money and climb the corporate ladder. 1 girl on the weekends coupled with all the other stuff that needs to get done is really all I have desire/time for.
I am coming to you TRP in search of insight from any RP men that have held off on getting married until their at least their 40s and how it has worked out for you (especially those that consider themselves in the top ~20% of SMV). Please elaborate on your experience as much as you think would be beneficial - a few key areas of particular interest for me are:
+Did you eventually decide to get married? if so, do you wish you would have done it sooner or later?
+Are you still able to find the energy to maintain plates into your later age? Does the magic wear off at some point?
+Did plating girls (the quality of girls not quantity) become much easier once your career took off in your 30s and 40s and subsequently you were able to get that penthouse apartment or sports car and kept lifting while your competition got fat? or did you find it more difficult having to compete with young guns?
+Are you still able to emotionally attach (i.e. love) to women after spinning through so many plates over so many years?
+Did you have any children and what were the circumstance?
+Did you find it difficult to have a social life after 40 without having a wife to get invited to couples only events?
+Do you think that you are happier having never settled down with that 'one girl' early on in life?
+Any positive or negatives to your finances - having only one mouth to feed as opposed to two? Counter to that - do you think it would have been better to have a Dual Income set up instead?
Any insight will be greatly appreciated as I will probably be making some significant life choices in the next 12 months.
[deleted] 8y ago
Married with kids here, in my 40s. Got married before the red pill like most men here. I didn't read many of the responses because I'm sure there are a shitload telling you marriage is a horrible idea and don't do it. I think it can be done, but you need to pick a woman with a strong moral compass, and they are rare. But, they are out there. Then you need to run game 24x7 which sounds like a lot of work, but I've come to realize that is just the normal state of being a man. Even then there are no guarantees and you are rolling the dice, so make sure you allow for plenty of time to get to know her, especially how she reacts when you are in need. Like if you are sick. Or watch how she behaves when a man clearly more alpha than you is around. You want to judge her level of hypergamy. They all are hypergamous, but some more than others, and a strong moral compass helps keep people together. But still no guarantee.
Getting married isn't that bad, but having kids my friend is a nuclear bomb going off. What I learned is that I could either make a lot of money or be a good dad, but I couldn't do both. And being a good dad exhibits a lot of beta behavior so you have to balance that out.
Where do you want to be in your life 10 years from now? Myself, even red pill aware, I'm a happily married man. No life is perfect and the universal equalizer that we all have is that we are given problems to deal with in life, usually fucking badass impossible situations to overcome. Just builds character, bring it the fuck on.
RiSector 8y ago
I'm in my mid-40s, never married. I've had ~10 sexual partners over 25 years, all but one in committed relationships, all of them 8 or better. One was a 10 – which btw is not worth the trouble.
Today my primary focus is health, slowing down the death march as much as possible, partly so I can still get women in their 20s and early 30s but mostly because decrepitude should be resisted. I eat very healthy, mostly prepare my own meals. I follow a M-W-F lifting regimen. When I first started lifting at 30 I followed Strossen, these days I mostly use Rippetoe, and I weigh about 60 lbs more than I did at 30, still fairly lean, around 17% BF. I experiment with supplements (NAC, NAD+, curcumin, work really well for me). Also: I color my hair - just the comb-in stuff - which leaves some gray but keeps it controlled. I can probably pass for 36 or 37.
My workouts are very practiced and I add reps before I add weight. I'm very careful to avoid injury in my workouts because my recovery from such has slowed and I can't afford the downtime.
I live in a university neighborhood in an urban area, and specifically bought a condo around the corner from a small music venue and bar frequented by the variety of women I like. I've placed myself in a target rich environment. At home and at work I am surrounded by attractive, smart women.
Most of the people I hang out with are much younger than me. My social circle is made up of people in their late 20s to mid 30s. Most people get boring after 40, anyway.
All of this works very well for me and I'm happy, but it's not for everybody. I am by nature a solitary, self-sufficient person, maybe a little aspie, who can happily endure long periods without a social or sexual interaction. Most men would probably not care for the life that I have, even though many men I know express envy at my lifestyle.
To me there are only really two serious drawbacks to being a single man in his 40s: travel is awkward and expensive without a partner, and it definitely makes career progress more difficult because people think I'm not settled and are slower to invest in me.
Overall, though, I think I'm winning.
Impun1ty 7y ago
You remind me of Craig David, he's in his late 30's/early 40's and still looks about 30, he is a DJ at raves in California I think. Hangs around with people in their 20's and doesn't look out of place. He's jacked as shit and super into fitness. He drives a Lamborghini and is doing very well for himself.
Sounds like you're living a life that most people your age can only dream of.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
Short Version: go read Life After 30: How to be an Old Guy then come back.
Back?
Ok, good. Now the rest:
It's awesome. Why? Read on....
I write an occasional series called "CorporateLand" that you may find useful. Click on my user name then "submitted" and start reading the one titled CorporateLand: A Rat Race Survival Guide For New Rats.
Yep. Or she could divorce rape you, abandoning you, and any kids, for Cash & Prizes. It's basically a coin-flip. And of the slightly-less-than-half of marriages that don't end in divorce, how many of those are happy or at least tolerable? No more than half. Sure, some % are "Troo Wuv" but not very many. Plus she's not going to stay young and hot forever, but so long as you factor in her depreciation, I suppose you're still good.
And talk about what? Home equity loans and how the wife hasn't shaken the baby weight and that stepping on a Lego in the dark is the most painful thing ever?
So now you're back to the 50-50 proposition. The worst thing for a kid is to be raised without a father.
Yeah, but that's called your best friend, not your wife.
If you must do that, you can do it with a favorite plate. I prefer to travel light.
That sounds a bit like an excuse. Of course nobody says you have to spin multiple plates. I prefer a couple of primaries, a couple of side pieces, and a plate emeritus or two.
Late 40s. Zero marriages so far.
What does it matter? You did it when you did it.
I'm 48. I'm not in a fucking wheelchair. Keep a regular exercise program, eat clean, etc., and it will do wonders for you. I recommend incorporating swimming because it's a good workout and the day will come when the warranty runs out on your knees and jogging is out.
See, here's the thing. You have to live your life For You. Whatever your dream is, go do that. Become exceptional at it, and the pussy will flow. Women are attracted to guys who have their shit together/are good leaders/etc., not pussy worshipers.
It's not a function of career taking off, so much as it is that you are a Man In Full. Your game is tighter than a nun's cunt.^1 Put another way, once you are established and have all your shit together and wired tight and are Good At Life, regardless of whether you're blue collar or white collar or whatever, and you really understand how everything works, that's when it becomes easy. Money, while useful as a tool, is a shitty way of keeping score.
On "competing with young guns". I don't compete with them, I make them compete with me. Or as I sometimes say, "I don't worry about other men. I let other men worry about me." I do what I do. I don't try to "act like a young guy", because that's both laughable and chick-poison. Be the studly older guy who has his shit together, travels cool places, has cool hobbies, etc. You DGAF, have Outcome Independence and Approach Like a Motherfucker, and reap the benefits. What other guys think is difficult, you think is easy.
It's possible, although I think I'm a bit jaded. It's sort of like running dread game in the background.
No kids that I know about, although quite common for men in my family to father children in their 40s and 50s. Three of my plates are at various stages of "Baby Rabies", so no worries, if I ever want to unleash a homegrown VZ Army on the world.
Not at all. First, you're the coolest guy in the room. Second, again, if you must, you can always bring a plate. I sometimes think I get invited to dinner parties just so the hosts can see who I will show up with, and how she'll be dressed (the wives) and how young and hot she is (the husbands).
I note, here, that you seem to be creating a narrative of "Oh, fuck, I need a wife so that I will have a date for family holidays and 'couples' dinners."
Yep. I spent last weekend with a 20 year old who has a fucking perfect body, and is a cool, if introverted, chick besides. This weekend, I spent part of with a 21 y.o. co-ed who looks like she stepped out of the Ralph Lauren (or whatever) catalog, and I also caught lunch with a 24 y.o. plate-emeritus.
Do you have to even ask? Zero divorce rapes so far so I am not paying 40% of my pre-tax income to an ex-wife to pay her to fuck other guys and teach my kids to hate me.
I also don't have to spend money on anything I don't want to spend money on. I used to live very cheaply to maintain a high % savings program, and now I live how I want to, go where I want to, do what I want to, and fuck who I want to.
Here's something to think about: Women Kill Your Dreams The 20 year old? She thinks it's awesome that I front my own band. A 45 year old wife would nag the shit out of me and try to get me to sell my equipment because I don't "need" it - translation, she wouldn't want me out having fun she didn't control and meeting 20 y.o. hard bodies who think it's cool that I'm in a band.
Nope. First you meant "dual", unless that was Freudian, which it may well have been. Second, women think what she earns is "her money" and what you earn is "our money". Third, the last thing you want is some woman coming home from work stressed out over working less hours than you do, making less money than you do, but bitching a shit-ton more about it and, as a result, always being too tired for fun.
Do you think the 20 y.o. is ever "to tired for fun"? It doesn't happen.
So that's that. I will close with a Fairy Tale for Men (except it's true):
Once upon a time, a guy asked a girl ‘Will you marry me?’
The girl said, ‘NO!’
And the guy lived happily ever after and rode motorcycles and went fishing and hunting and played golf a lot and drank beer and scotch and had tons of money in the bank and fucked co-eds and left the toilet seat up and farted whenever he wanted.
The End
^1 That can vary by nun, of course. I'm assuming a relatively young and pious nun.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
This is something a lot of guys don't realize. Expecially for RP guys who plan on never having a dad bod. The sooner you can do low impact cardio the better. Swimming, riding or row machine is a great way to not fuck up your knees. Running is just to damn hard on your body, especially if you are a lifter with a large upper body, which just adds more wear and tear.
strongFitVirile 8y ago
Mr. VasiliyZaitzev, Thank you for the link to "Life After 30", and your in-depth reply here. It resonated with me.
I like when I have to look up words; coterminous is my new favorite word.
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_Tactleneck_ 8y ago
I'm going to read this post once a week for the next 25 years. Thank you.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
That's why I'm here. Go kick ass, every day.
guest123420 8y ago
Thanks, you havee confirmed what I strive to accomplish over the next decade.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
Great. You have an "Everest", too. Read my reply to /u/Jaso-n and start working on your own plans.
Red_August 8y ago
I'm another late forties guy. And lo and behold, I've engineered my life in nearly identical ways. This is what happens, OP, when you make active choices rather than let life (or women) make the decisions for you. It appears that Vasilly, myself, and I'm sure a growing number of men have arrived independently to very similar conclusions. For example, we actively chose not to marry. We did this because we're in charge of our lives.
Just a couple of quick additional random notes:
"...Did you find it difficult to have a social life after 40 without having a wife to get invited to couples only events?..." This is a no-brainer and it really is never a problem. This is simply not like the movies. However, I suppose if you live in a mid-sized conservative town and you wish to be made partner in your law firm then it is clear that you've chosen a life that will require some undercover posturing in the blue pill world in order to gain the trust of your blue-pilled bosses. This is the life you chose. You'll probably be going to church too. Your choices. "Couples only" events in these cases are largely organised and run by the women themselves and are engineered for their benefit. You will have to dance around their shame game by fitting in, etc. It's female game. You are under their power but again, that's your choice.
I simply don't play the golf club (or similar) couples social game. It's for the wives of the blue pillers. Why would I play a social game where the rules and rituals are written to advantage the control of blue-piller-wives? I have absolutely and completely no interest in their little dull lives.
I chose to live in a large world capital. If there is an event which could be construed as an extended social in which you should parade a partner as a foil, you can invite a fresh plate. It's simply never an issue.
Play by your rules.
*...Counter to that - do you think it would have been better to have a Duel Income set up instead?..."
Vasilly is spot-on here: "...women think what she earns is "her money" and what you earn is "our money"..." On paper it would seem like a good idea to pool a couple's money but the problem with that model is that you assume that spending habits will remain largely unchanged. This is far from true and is in fact one of the biggest con game currently in play. And don't kid yourself, whether you're hardcore red pill or not, the minute you step into that universe, you lost. To this day, a man alone will save more money even if he lives in one of the most expensive world capitals of the world. More importantly, he will also earn more.
...It is nice having someone special that really understands you and what you are going through in work/life..."
This is the crux. All men will at times feel weak and this need is a Freudian return to the security of the bosom of your mother. Your wife/girlfriend/LTR is not your mother. This is one of the hardest and sharpest edges of the Red Pill. You're a man now and not a little boy. Only women can stay a child for life. You can't. Seeking this comfort will eventually degrade the relationship. It chips away at it like cancer. The attitude also packages you into the female universe, power, and game rules.
Whether or not you choose to have an LTR, you will need to organise your life differently than what you have been exposed to growing up. You will need a solid network of men in your life. (They will also generally be there for life by the way thus inherently a better solution long term.)
No matter what the perceived advantages of having a wife or an LTR, or now the muse as the sophisticated woman likes to call herself in order to assuage you, it will always come at a net cost to the man. This is just how nature is. You can choose to have an LTR but you will pay for it in more ways than one, don't kid yourself.
[deleted] 8y ago
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Red_August 8y ago
This has also been a significantly challenging area in my experience. I've also changed city because of my career and have had to start with a clean slate. I'm afraid I don't have a full-fledged recipe for success but I can share my general approach because I do have one, for what it's worth. My only advice is to put effort into it as you would in dating women or in any other improvement in your life. I think this starts with the belief and the will and attitude to want to meet new people. A genuine interest. It's also something that you will need to keep doing indefinitely. It simply needs to become a permanent part of who you are. Part of the reason is that quality friends are rare, and these need to be farmed through a long process with no guarantee of success. Also, this core attitude of openness will usually help give you enough momentum to carry you through from the initial meeting to a point in a chain where you can call someone "a friend".
If anything, you will also be building a wider network with those that don't necessarily pass the test to be full-fledged friends.
I have found that because men have their own established lives, they may not be open to any new friends being perfectly content with what they have. It's much harder to what it was in your early twenties. This is perfectly normal. In your thirties and forties you will also find that 80% of men are slaves to their woman and to their new families. Men available for friendship are rare. Quality men available for friendship rarer even. That's just the way the cookie crumbles. There will however be the occasional standout who, with or without a woman or family in his life, realises that there is more to life and that there needs to be more to life.
Having said that, I have not limited myself to only accepting full-Red Pill men to be part of my club. Men will naturally land somewhere on a spectrum between blue and red. I find that someone that leans Red naturally is all that is needed. Often it's simply that they have never been exposed to the whole Red Pill model but have solid common sense nevertheless and a willingness to challenge their own thinking. Smart people without that SJW frustrated chip on their shoulders. I find that any man who is masculine will automatically check the right box. I also have friends that span the political spectrum to some extent and also friends with various careers, interests, and of various cultural backgrounds. Of course, it's easier with people closer to my positions and background but you can have good quality, reliability, integrity and trust in friendships whilst also allowing plenty of leeway on their background. You can gain by loosening your restrictions on those fronts.
I still have my solid friends from back home. I see them less often but I know I can rely on them if I need someone for support. I offer the same in return. I've been fortunate to have them. I have made new friends through work in my new city and I've had some good success meeting new friends through other activities. Usually most activities that would attract health-minded masculine participants will do. A good sport (activity) usually does the trick if this is of interest to you. What you need is an activity that filters out the candidates you'd obviously not want to mix with, an activity that would likely attract someone with some common interest to yours, and an activity in which you will meet the same crowd over and over again. You need a few meetings in a row to eventually breakout and catch a few drinks or something after to unwind and chat. With some repetition, I find that you can usually have a very good reason to then meet outside of that pattern for your first real "man date". In no time then you'll start doing other things together and merge your group of personal friends. I have had great success meeting friends-of-friends as they also tend not to fall far away from the original friend. So more friends does beget more friends. And so on. You'll also find that people newly arrived in your city will be more amenable to new friendships.
Note that all this is face-to-face. None of this (artifi-)social people connections bullshit using your smartphone.
I also have a couple of watering holes local to my home in which I know the staff by name. I'll know all the regulars also. It's a good occasional refuge away from home. Useful but I can't say (except for one notable exception) that these friends would be anything but simply "bar friends". Bars do tend to attract more self-destructive types and I find I prefer to keep them in that confine even if some can be interesting. In general, you will of course find that some friends are better for some things but with enough effort put into it, you will have one or two or three that will bubble-up and surface to become truly permanent fixtures in your life. You need to go through many to get there. You need to keep doing it forever. You will lose some along the way as you would going to war. Those friends you do eventually find, and you will, are the ones that will be there for the long run. The ones that will have memories of you from twenty years ago. Longer than any women will ever be there except for maybe your mom. Good luck.
[deleted] 8y ago
Great post, I cracked up a few times
[deleted]
Jaso-n 8y ago
great writeup, i'm 25 and that was inspiring!
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
Sit down and decide what you want to do in life. It doesn't have to be detailed so much. Just start with some general ideas. Then refine it as you go forward.
Ex. A buddy of mine is into climbing mountains. This past week, he arrived at Base camp at Everest. Once he hits the summit, not only will he fulfill his own dream, but from here on out, in any room he's in, he is going to be The Guy Who Climbed Mount Everest. Figure out what your Mt Everest is, and set about working toward it.
[deleted] 8y ago
Can confirm. Working on finding myself again and my power, and I'm rediscovering the power of my past achievements. When I walk in the room, I'm the AAA video game concept artist, the guy who has threesomes, and the pinup artist and business owner. I have a lot of amazing worl in my past and present that makes me feel powerful, and I'm identifying with that more than my past setbacks (the one girl that didn't work out, unemployment after college, etc).
You don't have to be the most amazing man to everyone else. You just have to decide that your highlight reel made you who you are today and you can choose to make it longer and stronger.
You're living and making your Greatest Hits album right now.
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nivekx 8y ago
The final part reminds me of [the first 40 seconds of this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM_hw_rQwLYof ) You seem to be living the dream! I hope one day I can live that too
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
That's why I - and I'm sure a bunch of the other older guys - show up here, to show younger guys the way forward, as well as to be around like-minded guys.
You don't have to just take the shit ration that the world offers you, you can go out and blaze your own path. Build your own value for you. Everyday, you get up and decide that you are going to be stronger than what life throws at you, and when you come home at night, be able to say "I handled my shit like a man today."
SmilingWatermelon 8y ago
These comments really resonate with me.
Thank you for your contributions to the community.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
You're welcome. Happy to help.
[deleted] 8y ago
What is your name from? I swear I've read it or seen it somewhere before.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
Zaitzev was a Russian sniper in WWII. Most Americans who know the name are familiar with it from the film Enemy At The Gates. I use it as a nom de plume here as a nod to the Slavic side of my family.
[deleted]
IamGale 8y ago
So you're thinking about kids but you're unsure right now?
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
I'm not really worried abt it. Three of of my plates have recently brought up how they'd like to have kids "in the future" which always means "sooner than the guy thinks", and were sounding me out abt my willingness to dose them up on high-grade VZ sperm, so it's topical for me.
IamGale 8y ago
It'd be a little crazy if you had a kid with each one--all at the same time. Might make a good family movie though.
VasiliyZaitzev 8y ago
2 of them are trying to "negotiate" off of that idea; the 3rd wld be "NFW!" Will see how it goes... /grin
[deleted] 8y ago
I plan on doing this with 5 surrogates, all different races & tall. I wanna have a ratpack of exotic tall gladiator alpha sons. All half brothers, but they'll grow up so they won't know a difference.
IamGale 8y ago
Do you know anyone who's actually done this?
[deleted] 8y ago
No, but I hope to pull it off when I'm extremely wealthy. Would love to have sons, hate women tho.
IamGale 8y ago
Alright I've tagged you as "Army of Kids". I want to hear an update from you in the next 10 years.
[deleted] 8y ago
I don't think it'll be in 10 years. Maybe when I'm in my 30s or 40s, I'm only 16 right now. I'll be a wealthy alpha fucker by then.
kid_kayfabe 8y ago
LOL. I'm 15 and I'm just gonna donate lots and lots and lots of sperm.
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
I'm 55 years old so past your age range.
But... I can say that it's very easy to let time slip by.
The biggest problem is that the Cock Carousel™ combined with the shitty (should be illegal) Child Support and Marriage Laws all combine to make the quality of Western women so low that any attempt at a family has a very low probability of success.
You look at the Trump family as probably the best example of success despite the setbacks of divorce. Even though his first wife divorced him Donald Trump still pulled through and created a strong family with a truly family business.
So role models are few and quality women are rare... but I'm of the belief that if you develop leadership skills early you should be able to make a decent attempt at it.
There is a guy who posts about the "Family Alpha" who seems to be doing well, but you never know... six months from now he might be talking about having been Divorce Raped.
There are no easy answers.
If things were good the Manosphere wouldn't exist.
The__Tren__Train 8y ago
or find out that he's been raising children who aren't actually his..
NeoreactionSafe 8y ago
That's the thing about everything these days... the incentives all push a degenerate Cock Carousel™ lifestyle on the women as normal and since women are the most imitative creatures they are going to be followers of that.
On the flip side when culture and laws were near perfect in the 1800's and the marriage success rate reached 95% there were still 5% failures and an estimated about 5% cuckolding rate.
So we can control conditions and gain high probabilities of positive outcomes, but AWALT so there will always be some element of random defects even in the best scenario.
mojo_juju 8y ago
This might be an outward perception that you have of an individual woman... but believe me, it's an act.
It's more like
They don't give a fuck what you're going through. Just that you're going to be there for them to order around, ask for "help" that they don't really need, etc.
How many married couples with kids have you spend a substantial amount of time with?
If you think "married with kids" benefits the man in any way, go and spend more time with such a family. The man exists as a servant.
Anyone around a mother with kids <10 years old becomes that mother's staff (as in, employees). Seriously, you'll become her servant. If you fight it, there is a recipe: start with guilt trip. increase the manipulation. start talking about him behind his back to get others to guilt trip him as well.
Good luck with that, lol :P
OneRedYear 8y ago
Over 40. Not Chad. Economy wrecked my finances, started over in my career a few years ago, still working my way back up. There is no way in hell I would ever get married.
I gave it a shot in my 20s, shacked up, went beta, had a kid. She wanted out so I left. She still blames me for leaving her, typical. Treated me like shit, demand to be free and somehow its still my fault. Best thing that ever happened to me. Got out with only CS payments. Kept my house. She got fat and lazy..dated a string of losers. Hit the wall and locked down a beta.
My early 30s were a damn pussy buffet. 22 years olds to 30 year olds everywhere. Easy as pie. All of my friends had gotten married. The ones who didn't were druggy, video gamers. If I wasn't trying to get fucked up or spend all day playing video games they really wanted nothing to do with me and constantly tried to beta cockblock or white knight my girls. I didn't know what those terms were but I knew that was not the way friends are supposed to act.
But they all went ghost when I lost it all. I lost the job, the house, barely held on to my car. Nobody had my back in the dark days but me. Even family only wanted to help so much. Started eating and drinking to deal with my pain. One day I found myself at 36 with a mountain of debt, fat, no job, no friends, no women, unable to see my kid and no where to go. There I was with a gun in my mouth ready to end it. I found the manosphere. I realized that nobody was going to help me. As a man we are on our own. I decided I wanted to live on my own terms.
I got a shitty entry level job, I got a roommate, I started freelancing on the side to pay down debt. I've studied the 48 Laws of Power. I've read The Rationale Male. I've studied the Book of Pook. Successfully fought for more visitation. I got a raise, I skipped across town to the competition. I'm almost debt free, caught up on back child support and I'm in the process building a sustainable side business and I'm halfway to my weight loss goal. Women are starting to sniff around again, but I'm not interested beyond satisfying my base desires. I can't expect loyalty. I can't expect fidelity. I can't expect friendship. I'm on my own and I like it that way.
The Redpill is a remind to constantly continue to push myself to be the best man I can be. Nobody cares if I do or do not. If I kill myself tomorrow the world goes on. I do what I do for me so I can do what I want. In 5 years you can find me on a beach enjoying life because that's what I want. I'm sure I'll find some woman to keep me busy while I'm there.
aiguo888 8y ago
If you have a BA look into teaching english in asia if asian women interest you and you can handle those cultures.
Easy money and no more child support cause nobody can force you to pay.
It's a dead and job though and building a business in those countries is ten times harder than in the west.
newmeforever 8y ago
Glad you're still with us, brotha.
"I realized that nobody was going to help me. As a man we are on our own...If I kill myself tomorrow the world goes on."
^ That really hit home... No one gives a fuck about you, you just gotta do what you wanna do and live a life that you wanna live.
[deleted] 8y ago
You keep working for that beach man, because you are going to get there. Keep on grinding.
IamGale 8y ago
What a transformation. Just wanted to say congratulations on your mindset shift.
Anon0911 8y ago
Lurker here. I am definitely feeling this post. I am approaching this point in my life myself. What has helped me the most is seeing marriage as transactional.
At this point, my only reason to get married is to give the image of a wholesome background. I know that some people will only feel comfortable when presented an image of the nuclear household. Marriage is unfortunately the only way to give off this image. People tend to frown upon bachelors. People do NOT frown upon multiple marriages as long as you present yourself as happy in each encounter.
peterson2004 8y ago
Let me preface my response with the simple advisory: beware taking advice from the internet. This sub, and others (like investment subs) usually echo the same advice. My approach is to consume all information and let it digest, until I have a game plan for myself.
The advice given around here to never get married is similar to the advice you would give to never gamble in vegas. The risk is very high, and the odds are you will lose. The big difference, is you are playing at the high stakes table - if you are not prepared you will lose all. Yet people will gamble.
A mans quest to build his kingdom begins with his heart. Not his emotions, lust, or even logic; it's his drive to create. So before you can put a shovel in the ground - you (or whoever asked this) needs to decide what his kingdom will look like.
The answer won't be found here, only you know the answer. Understand the risks and pursue your goals using the tools found here. No man holds the key, each man has it within himself and must grind it to perfection. Best of luck.
gonorealover 8y ago
You deserve to be shot for this retarded analogy .
RedEyesBlueShades 8y ago
You deserve to be shot for lack of comprehension ability.
neo9960 8y ago
"Even with all of that - I can't help but wonder if marriage might still be the right move or not."
HOLY LEARNING DISORDER BATMAN!!! Dude...... If you still can't figure it out from all of the evidence, just get married. That'll reeaaally help you decide. God speed.
gonorealover 8y ago
He is a blue pill wondering around on TRP.
Look at the recent comments lately . They are all female/blue pillers who found their way to this subreddit.
They still INSIST on the fraud of marriage . Millions and millions of men getting divorced-rape and YET THEY STILL CONSIDERS MARRIAGE . All the proof and evidence are RIGHT THERE in front of their face and they STILL CONSIDERS MARRIAGE
makeshift98 8y ago
It isn't easy to get rid of the Disney programming man. I plan on never getting married, and even I want the fairy tale life with a woman I can trust, who will never cheat on me, always love me, and who will grow old with me. The desire for this life causes people to do very irrational things.
[deleted] 8y ago
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[deleted] 8y ago
Really? I've seen other dudes have great LTRs & still spin plates. Of course, they're super alpha as fuck tho (not that you aren't, its just that to my knowledge the more alpha you are the more bitches you can spin. The more plates you can spin, the more women are attracted )
[deleted] 8y ago
i'm picturing planetary dynamics right now...
Earth has 1 orbiting body that generates strong tidal effects
Jupiter has 67 moons that don't affect it near as much. More attraction.
If Jupiter had only 1 moon, it'd be a damned good moon.
beginner_ 8y ago
That's walking a very thin and dangerous line. AWALT. Women don't understand what you are going through if shit hits the fan. Might work for minor issues but if you really get into trouble say clinical depression, unemployed etc. that understanding will very soon be at zero.
So no, keep your deep secrets and weak sides to yourself and maybe some best friend (male).
Areu4realm8 8y ago
I got married in my 20s. Everyone was doing it(i live in Eastern Europe,people get married very young) and me being bluepill, didnt think about it twice. I was doing what everyone was doing, the right path of life, we all found love and now were gonna get married, have kids . True life was starting!
i laugh at my youth everytime i remember those times. So what happened? Did she cheat, did she divorce raped me? No. it was me who couldnt stand the prison of this life. Love ended, and i saw before me a woman who gave me nothing, no rush of exitement, no happiness, just nothing. I felt bored and motivated to do nothing.
I saw this in all my friends, but they continued to live like its nothing, to pretend that married life is sooo great, we are a cople, of course we are happy. The big emotions of honeymoon period are nothing, peace and security is what true love is, they said.
I was young, and i obviously couldnt stand living like this. I saw in front of me a long, boring life, and the security of a failed home. I said fuck that! I broke up with her. I lost half my friends. maybe, seeing someone in a similiar relationship to theirs, who ends it, hit a nerve. Whatever.
I immigrated to italy, where people are more open minded. I started to work in a bar, and made new friends. I started to pay attention to my needs, my dreams. i started to eat better, to visit new places, to have quality time. I focused 100% on me, and studied every thought/every emotion i had.
I understanded that im not the type of man to want the security of being the alpha of the family. Thats very boring for my nature. i dont want children, i dont want to spend my life paying and loking after them, i dont want a family.
I figured that love ,like every human experience, has a start, and an ending. just like a good book, it will be a beautiful thing, but when it ends it better to move on, instead of doing a million tricks and try to make it live past its expiration date. its completely useless, and you will not enjoy it ,its second class emotions.
I discovered that i need continuous stimulation in life, because everything (marriage or plates) gets boring, especially if you just make just one of those the option of your life. Since i divorced, i had two Ltrs, one for three years, and the other for 4 years, and between them i had plates.i enjoyed all those experiences, i had plates/sexual succes and ltr/love succes, im enriched by those.
I plan to continue this way. just listen to yourself, when you want plates, go find plates, when you want love, go find love. Dont listen to friends and society. Dont make any final decision, because trustme , you can never be content in life, your body will always want new emotions.
if you want to marry your gf, marry her. have the experience of married life. But be careful, have a prenup, do anything to not lose your indipendence. Maybe you will like married life! or maybe you wil get bored.. you can divorce! follow your heart. No matter how much we preach here about bullshit like long term happiness, and not living yolo, your body, your mind and nature doesnt care. you will want to have emotionol highs all your life. respect nature. but also be responsable.
[deleted] 8y ago
It takes a lot of self love and self respect to just follow your heart when everyone says you're dead wrong. Life is about feeling through your senses and through your emotions, don't desensitize yourself.
Muhnewaccount 8y ago
But I thought we critize women for following "muh feelz"? Why is it ok when a man is unloyal and listens to his feewings?
danjs 8y ago
I think you misunderstand and misrepresent us.
There's nothing wrong with having feelings. There is something wrong when one cannot separate one's subjective perspective from reality and instead allow emotions to control you erratically.
apackofwankers 8y ago
Theres a difference between being controlled by your feelings and being guided by them.
There was a recent post on borderline personality disorder - the essence of BPD is the inability to distinguish feelings from reality, that a BPD will retrofit reality and memories to fit their momentary feeling. It's archetypal female behavior.
[deleted] 8y ago
Its okay for men to be unloyal cause 95% of women are unloyal.
OneRedYear 8y ago
Seems like a double standard doesn't it? The only difference is this, as a man you are the one responsible if it all goes to shit. If you follow your feelings and are wrong, you are the one who will suffer and nobody will help you. You assume all of the risk. Women still have an out when they follow their feels and fuck up. They sit on that out all day. THis is why most beta men don't follow their feels or their gut or their heart. Because the fear of fucking up and being caught out. If you've ever failed hard and made it back from the brink you know the score. If you've never failed hard, you'll probably keep playing it safe until you die in beta land.
No nuts no glory.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
You know whats odd. Marriage 2.0 is like that. Its risky as shit, technically your following your heart, and if it fails you might not come back.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
Dude I can relate to you too a fucking T. Any tips on controlling this characteristic? I work in a traditional career where monotony and repetition are a must. I'm working on a passive income source and maybe one day leaving but It's a damn good career and I have zero debt for it.
I find if i stagnate or my creativity is stifled I literally die on the inside. And i don't mean figuratively, I mean depression sets in and kills my entire drive for anything. I was in a 4 year engagement and It utterly wrecked me. I can't ever do a traditional marriage or relationship(Also don't want kids so that's a good bonus for my type).
Do you jump from place to place or have you stuck to a career for a while? How did you manage your shortcomings and ADHD like tendencies? I find my life goes in 2-10 week cycles. The average time where i tackle a new interest and then move to another one. I sometimes come back to old interests but I've identified this trait and built myself around it instead of trying to work against it or shut it down. By being honest with myself like this it has given me incentive and drive to get shit done fast because I know it will eventually become fleeting. I think it's the main reason I've tackled and incorporated TRP so fast in my life. I'm built for rapid change and exploration.
So, any other tips you've learned through the years?
[deleted] 8y ago
Yeah I know what you mean exactly. I kind of go through 'phases' of certain things where I become like hyper-focused on them, and then eventually they just wane. But I wouldn't really call myself like autistic or anything, because I don't really have any trouble with socialisation/meeting new people. You wouldn't by any chance also be ENTP would you?
Something that I like about it is that it often gives me an edge when it comes to adaptation to new environments. I'm a younger guy, so the transfer from high-school to university life was one that quite a few of my peers struggled with, but I just switched gears and now I'm crushing this too.
I went pretty hard at an accounting firm during the holidays and the sheer monotony of it after a few weeks just made me feel like I was burning out. You seem like an older guy - do you have any tips for dealing with 'burning-out' with these positive hobbies/habits? Is it just a question of discipline? Thanks.
Clint_Redwood 8y ago
To a fucking T.
Ya I can rapidly adapt to anything. Go read my first post on 9 months of TRP to give you an idea.
I'm 26. I basically reduce my instant gratification stuff from my life. That helps a lot at rewiring reward circuits so I can focus longer. I also take 'The Charisma Myths' approach on anxiety and discomfort and force myself to accept anything I don't like because I know eventually my body will adapt to it.
It also helps to look at things in the long run. I know i want to try something else or drop a hobby but consciously thinking about how awesome it will be once it's finished really helps push through to the end.
I don't think we are really different from most people, we are just more prone to instant gratification stuff, short term goals, etc.
KM31548 8y ago
Man, same here. I get bored of things easily and once the new factor wears off the quality of my work declines. So does my interactions with the people I work with. At that point I just show up and do the minimum required. A very bad habit
bittr_n_swt 8y ago
nice post, please use paragraphs next time, easy on the eyes
Fr3akShow 8y ago
Epic post man... All great questions. I'm new to TRP, but I am getting divorced at 45 because I had no idea what the hell I was doing pre-TRP. I don't have any advice, but I am interested in the answers to your completely rational questions. One thing I can add is that I did experience a lot of the things TRP predicts. Pre marriage, we had tons of sex, she was a dancer, ran 5ks all the time, etc. post marriage, that all stopped, massive weight gain, etc. I was beta as fuck back then. Now, I'm getting divorced. Marriage does change women. Maybe if they are post "wall", they won't change much, but I dunno--once they get that ring, most do change. Crazy...
realize_real_lies 8y ago
Thanks for sharing - im curious to know how things are going now that you are a free man.
MattyAnon Admin 8y ago
It isn't. Marriage 2.0 is motivating her to leave you, not stay with you.
Be a couple... have kids... accept the risks... but don't pay her to leave you.
Do Not Marry
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garlicextract 8y ago
Then you're fucked. See the sidebar for examples.
MattyAnon Admin 8y ago
then move somewhere that's not the case... or don't let her move in.
Overkillengine 8y ago
I would say don't let a woman move in, ever.
Familiarity will make her lazy and contemptuous.
Dread becomes harder to maintain.
She can have you kicked out of your own home just because she resides there.
yomo86 8y ago
So spot on. A plate used to hang out at my place. No biggie. The only problem was she let it slide. No more make up, fights occured. But dread was easy I just said today I have no time for you and she got the message. But marriage? Hell no.
They should make posters Marriage - not even once.
NotUpToAnythingGood 8y ago
I'm the bad example. I've been married for 20 years, 21 in July. Four kids, house, car payment.
Yet I spin plates and my wife knows. I spin them when I want to and my time permits.
For me, plate spinning got easier once I got into my 30s. I see no real difference now that I'm 41.
Why did I get married? I meet a young lady who brought value to my life, I enjoyed being around, and could see myself with decades down the line. She wasn't vapid. She could hold a conversation. She was 21, I was 20, when we got married. Meeting her also fed into my goals and desires for my life.
Would I recommend it for anyone? Only if it serves a purpose in furthering their life's goals. Don't get married just for the sake of marriage, that's just stupid.
But there is also a high degree of risk here due to marriage and divorce laws. There's a reason why being married is often referred to Red Pill on Hard Mode. There are other considerations in play than just straight RP.
In short, get married only if it suits and furthers your goals. Before you do, examine the reasons behind why you want to get married and see if you can accomplish them without going down that road. Make sure your reasons are your own and not the ones society foisted upon you.
Bamarific 8y ago
Your lines of reasoning are greatly distressing my friend.
These fall along the lines of, "stop feeding your inner vagina":
As far as the marriage / kids / plates go: if you want kids, TRP orthodoxy is wrong. You can still pull abundant hookups with hotties as you age, but good clean sane women that you'd even consider going LTR and raising kids with are going to be harder to find. Paternal age is inversely correlated with offspring IQ, so if you really want to have kids with a clean woman, sooner is better than later.
Biggest danger with any LTR (married, common law, whatever) is going beta. It's way too easy to backslide from Alpha to Beta. If you let that happen, everything is going to turn into shit... everything: infidelity, divorce rape, business troubles, even the discipline and morals of your children. You are the leader. If you fail to lead, it all unwinds.
Your health is your #1 asset, followed by your mind. If you have to pass up career opportunities to keep lifting, do it. A lot of the guys on this board "spin plates" for self-validation. If you keep your mind and body sharp, the mirror, and the order in your life will give you all the self-validation you need.
As a general rule, women are consumers. If you want kids, be the provider and have her raise them. Two-income is bullshit. Hers is probably going to be smaller -- and may even be less than the child care expenses -- but it will always be something she can wield against you. Two incomes = too many cooks in the kitchen.
atticusfinch1973 8y ago
I can only give you my insight based on my experience. I decided I wanted to get married and have a family at 32 - and married the wrong person. We also waited to have kids and I just had my second child a week after my 40th birthday.
My advice is don't make decisions based on what others or your current social group are doing. After learning about TRP and changing my mindset I now look back and almost wish I hadn't done what I did, except that my little girls are amazing.
Like others have said, you're entering your peak years. When you're my age you can easily find a person to settle down with if you so choose, even one much younger. Focus on things like business, doing amazing things and enjoying life. Women will be plentiful if you apply what you learn here.
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Jaso-n 8y ago
nah, brifaults law: past contributions don't even count.
harsha_hs 8y ago
find a slutty bitch and buy her a house and car and give her half your retirement
How you won't do above, don't get married.
RPRedhead 8y ago
I am in my 40's and have been married twice. The first divorce was pretty friendly. The second was kinda ugly. I found TRP during the second divorce.
After these experiences, I do not see why a man, especially a successful man, would get married. Given the existence of divorce rape (check your local laws/customs, btw), why can't a man and woman have an LTR without getting married? I think now if I saw a relationship headed towards an LTR I would be as clear as possible. LTR, yes. Legal marriage NO. Unless, of course, she's filthy rich and we're not going to have any kids.
There are (at least) two aspects of a relationship that I believe should be closely examined before entering an LTR, and more so a marriage. First is trust. Is she trustworthy? In which areas? How much do you trust her and why? If you do not trust her completely, what real and practical steps will you take to protect yourself? Will those steps be enough?
The second area is her commitment level. Do NOT fool yourself, a woman agreeing to marry is not a woman making a lifetime committment. I am not sure that many women exist who truly make such a committment. Ever. Ask yourself this: If I am totally disabled, will she stay with me? Will she be the one that will always push my wheelchair?
Best of luck!
graffix13 8y ago
I will be 39 in a few weeks and I have been in two separate LTR, both of which resulted in 1 child in each (both accidents). I did not marry in either case, as I was pretty certain neither girl would be worth marrying. HOWEVER, I did keep marriage in the back of my mind if I felt it was the next step in the relationship. I did NOT want to get married "just for the kid". I'm single now (as of January 2016) and even though I am on friendly terms with both women (and I get to see my kids whenever I please) I am glad I never married either. The emotional baggage is there, of course, but financially (except for the CS, which I don't mind paying) I'm not getting raped.
gonorealover 8y ago
lol fucking loser mentality
ChadThundercockII 8y ago
Boy, you are fucking retarded. Go play ball outside and get that dick out of your ass.
[deleted] 8y ago
Why would you ever trust a woman completely?
RPRedhead 8y ago
I would hope no man would. But plenty do. I used to be much more trusting than I am now.
Some level of trust is required in any relationship. If you sleep next to someone you trust that they will not kill you in your sleep. I'm suggesting that it's a worthwhile exercise to understand how exactly trust does or does not exist in an important relationship. Know how/where you are trusting her and anticipate betrayal.
[deleted] 8y ago
Ill never trust a woman, they can't be trusted.
vengefully_yours 8y ago
Once again. I'm mid 40s, don't get married. If you want to live with one girl and not fuck lots of them, fine. Don't get fucking married. There is zero reason to get married, zero incentive and zero benefit for you.
Edit upon further reflection, you ask if it's harder for me to compete with the young guys. Only if they're considerably better looking and taller. I can pull a young girl from her young boyfriend easier than pulling a pint of Ben & Jerrys from the freezer
toalysium 8y ago
And the young girls are better for you than Ben & Jerry's.
vengefully_yours 8y ago
Yeah, that's the point. Girls are bad for you, but so much fun is to be had worth them. The effects of keeping them around too long take years to recover from.
[deleted] 8y ago
I got married, had 2 kids and got divorced in my 40s. So I have almost a backwards perspective on your issues. So it is difficult to know what to advise you being 30 so I will lay some stuff out for you, and you decide.
Firstly I personally do not like having sex with girls over 35. It is kinda gross especially since it is still relatively easy to get girls in their 20s and early 30s. So my first advice to you is that if you want an LTR (note I did not say marriage) then your girl should be substantially younger than you. Go for as you as you can, If you are 30 and you can attract a 20 year old girl who is smart and pretty with a low n-count, then she is suitable.
As soon as you have children you and your partner will "die" and re-emerge as new people. Kids change everything. You would think they would make you love your partner more and bring you closer together, they don't. What really happens is the horrible pressure of being a parent begins to take it's toll. The medical roundabout of pregnancy, the horror it will wreak on your partner's mind and body will make you lose attraction for each other. All of that oxytocin and good feelings when she breast feeds and holds the baby means she no longer loves you. The thing is that you no longer see her as a sexual being. You see a torn vagina, stitches and a distended stomach. She does not want you to touch her (ever again) but she will return to some boring duty sex and she will milk you like a cow when it is time for kid number two.
She will soon hit the wall, then she might start dreaming of being with Chad (even if you are Chad, she will dream of a more criminal version of Chad than yourself). She will start withdrawing emotionally from you and kids. Then she will see a lawyer and see how much she can get out of you. She will blame you for everything (including her cheating and then gaslighting you) and then she will use the kids as a negotiating tool.
This is what will happen if you get married. Now here is the kicker, the part which will shock anyone who has read what I just said. The part which will have young neckbeards down voting en masse. If you get kids out of it, it is all worth it.
Do not get married, research family law and try to avoid a relationship which can be defined as a common law marriage. Pick a girl with only one or two minor red flags, not major ones. Obey the 16 Commandments of poon. If you want kids then make sure you want the LTR for at least another 10-20 years. Look at shifting assets off shore or into trusts/ secret accounts.
Your other option is a series of STRs and LTRs sprinkled liberally with pump and dump sloots. This is a great life as we all know. Ultimately unfulfilling in many ways but also low risk and lots of fun.
As for the financial effects, well this can be positive if you LTR with a girl who has money or a good job. Even after the divorce if she has pulled her weight and matched your capital contributions then it is half her stuff anyway. Given that you have both contributed your whole capital base for leverage and equity you end up further ahead than if you went it alone. Like a good business partner. You just have to be the man and keep control of the finances. Captain/ first mate, nice and simple. If you do not keep control of the finances she will buy stupid shit like Louis Vuitton bags.
Yes it can be difficult to have a social life after 40. Many guys in their 40s are married, in a relationship, have kids, or alternately, they are total losers. So choose your poison, hang out with plates and losers, or hang out with married/ responsible/ relationship guys who do not want to hear anything about your cool single life.
Emotional attachment to women gets hard after swallowing the pill rather than after spinning plates. The fact that you can spin plates at all proves all of our theories. There are no unicorns and who wants to be tied down to a nag for life.
So I am not advising you which choice to make, just providing you with some of the issues I have personally dealt with. Look, think of it this way, an LTR with kids lacks excitement and the highs and lows are not so pronounced, plus you get to experience true love (from your kids of course not your partner, women do not love men). If you stay single for life there are bigger highs and lower lows, plus shit gets lonely. Which ever you pick you will still yearn for the other sometimes, the grass always being greener on the other side. So choose your poison and accept your choices.
Squeezymypenisy 8y ago
After what just happened in panama, i wouldn't move anything offshore yet.
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Sepean 8y ago
I'm married. Been with her over 12 years, and we have two kids.
The idea that all women start nagging and go fat is stupid. Did we have a period where she was a frigig bitch? Yes, we did. But this was pre-TRP. After TRP her behavior has changed completely. She's sweet, loving, fit, kinky, waxed.
Don't read the horror stories about how betas are treated except as a warning to never drop the alpha. Just like on the dating market, an alpha man in marriage has it much, much better than a beta.
This will not happen. You got some points with the other stuff, but don't expect your wife to understand you or support you. You're the rock and the captain of the relationship, not her.
You want a couple of kids, who has nice stuff, get a good education, a nice big house to live in, a mother who stays home when they're small and work part time later and you have to provide a living for her too? That's going to cost you way more than a divorce will.
The whole family thing is fucking expensive whether you get divorced or not, and if it is money you're worried about, don't do it.
You can look up how much a kid will cost you, add some extra for being the main provider in the family, compare it to the risk and cost of divorce (remember to factor in that many of your costs go down after a divorce and alimony won't be forever). Spread the amount out over the years you get to have your children.
Is it worth it? After you have kids it will certainly feel like it is worth it, those little creatures change your priorities big time. I can't say how you will feel about it before, but look at the actual costs and make an informed decision.
Check with a lawyer. The risk is greatly exaggerated. Prenups get thrown out mainly because they're signed too close to the wedding date or they give her nothing. Give her her own legal counsel for it, sign the prenup before the wedding date is even decided on, follow up with postups, you're unlikely to get divorce raped.
All this stuff varies with jurisdiction (and especially if there is common law marriage it is MUCH better to get married with a prenup than just living together), so check with a lawyer who knows his shit and can provide you with prenups that have precedents that hold up.
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
I'm 48. I'm Chad. Was Blue Pill in my 20's, hard lessons taught me Redpill even before the Matrix came out in 99. To answer your questions...
1- married twice, divorce raped three times cuz in WA state if you live with a girl, you are married. I wish I had never met any of those three cunts.
2- Like anything else, you get out what you put in. There is no magic.
3- Young guns are no match for me. I know things that have taken decades to master.
4- emotional attachment is lost when you realize AWALT, and that the unicorn you were raised to believe in does not exist. Plating women is the result of lost emotional detachment, not the other way around.
5- Got a vasectomy at 22. Smartest thing I've ever done.
Ever.
6-If your game is dialed in in your 40's you will be hosting the parties, not looking for them. If the walls of my house could talk, they would be censored by the feminists.
7- That 'one girl' broke my heart when I was 24, then went on to marry a professor at a major college from a wealthy family. Now she cheats on him regularly. I know because she propositioned me, 25 years after dumping me. CLASSIC beta bucks, Alpha fucks. AWALT.
8- My finances were ruined through my thirties. I'm still paying an extra $700 a month on my mortgage to refinance paying off the cunts decades ago. Luckily I held on to enough real estate that now I'm mostly retired, my rental income covers most of my bills, and I'm working on a passion project no woman would tolerate, as I make no money at it.
Yet.
Every guy in my life (dad, bro, posse, etc), save one, has been, or is currently being divorce raped.
That last one is full Red Pill, and is well aware he is the last to fall, and fully exposed with young kids should she turn on him.
That woman you think loves you does not. She loves your resources, and she can have them with or without you as soon as you give her a kid.
If you must have kids, do it in a country where the social structures will support you, and come back in 20 years with well adjusted young adult kids.
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The_Red_Paw 8y ago
No regrets ever. Watching my buddies pay child support re-enforces my decision constantly. Just the other day my buddy was here saying "I can't believe you get to live here and you don't have a job."
"I don't have kids." I responded.
makeshift98 8y ago
At 22 your brain has not even fully developed yet. Be vigilant with condoms, but wait a few years before making that kind of decision.
toalysium 8y ago
Just go make a deposit and don't worry. That has the added bonus of requiring a significant investment in invitro if you do find a woman you want to have kids with, instead of making it a quick "in the moment" decision.
ThrowingMyslfOutther 8y ago
Hi Chad, I'm Chad too.
And she flew me to a different state to do it. Stayed in a 5⭐ for 4 nights, paid by her company. Dinners at night paid by her company. Having to take separate elevators up, so we aren't seen together, because a bunch of her staff that she is over are in the same hotel. But holding my hand tight two blocks from the hotel. And giving me that ass like it was college again. While her husband was at home with their two kids. Divorced a year later, she filed papers a few weeks after the hotel.
Now she's with beta 2, and I know she'll invite me over again when my company goes public.
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
Ya, in my case she was offering to fly here, across country, ostensibly on a cannabis tour of WA state. I told her 'Your husband is a legitimate genius. He'll know why you are coming to WA not CO.'
She was hamstering so hard she was about to toss her marriage. I've met him. He's a good guy. I won't do that to him. But also he'd pay to have me killed.
killthenoise 8y ago
Jesus christ that last line.
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
Discretion is the better part of valor.
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awalt_cupcake 8y ago
What if you want a kid? I'd like a son to raise. Not sure how yet. A vasectomy might be something I ought to save up for. I'm in my early twenties.
RedDeadlift 8y ago
Wrap it, donate to Vasalgel, and sign up for their mailing list.
Or still get snipped and freeze your sperm.
ThrowingMyslfOutther 8y ago
Start mentoring. You'll soon realize it's more rewarding than playing science experiment and social experiment with your genetic material.
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
If you want a kid, the odds are good you will not get to raise it anyhow. You will, however, get to pay for the child and the babymama to live well above your means.
ThrowingMyslfOutther 8y ago
Specifically this. He's assuming a lot about the future.
gonorealover 8y ago
You won't . They won't allow you.
I don't think you fully grasp at what is going on in this society . Men have no power in the families they start . Men have no say in their kids they help to bring in this world. A woman's egg is an egg and stays an egg if there is no sperm. That egg is worthless is no sperm is available to her .
You havent touched TRP main contents yet.
awalt_cupcake 8y ago
Once I've accomplished my remaining bucket list items, and saved a lot of money, I can have a kid-- run away with kid. Change my identity.
You're right. I don't even know what TRP stands for!
[deleted] 8y ago
That's ridiculous. As if you have to believe someone is perfect in order to establish an emotional connection.
mrrooftops 8y ago
I assume he means the school boy Disney princess damsel write love letters to write songs for mother replacement type emotional attachment.
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
You have to be realistic while allowing oneself to be smitten. Once you realize your emotional connection is entirely one way, you become more realistic.
[deleted] 8y ago
That doesn't make any sense. Women are extremely emotional, and are certainly capable of having an emotional connection. However, that connection is conditional. That's what needs to be kept in mind.
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[deleted] 8y ago
Are we women? No. For fucks sake man.
IdeaSnob 8y ago
Wait wtf you can get divorce raped in WA if you never marry her? How does that work?
beachbbqlover 8y ago
I don't know WA but in Canada, living for 6 months together with anyone makes you liable.
tekn0_ 8y ago
What about living as roommates in Canada, with both bf and gf liable to pay the rent? Would it still be applicable?
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The_Red_Paw 8y ago
It's called a meretricious divorce. The state doesn't care about the nuances of relationships when it comes to property division. In WA (and other states) if you live with a woman, fuck her, and mix your money in a significant manner (like buying a house while you are together, even if it is provably all your money), the state considers you married if she decides she wants half your stuff. As my lawyer put it "Just be glad she isn't asking for child support."
They were not even my kids.
killthenoise 8y ago
Goddamn. What happened to make her do that? For a married woman its one thing to turn into a succubus and try to screw you for everything you're worth, but how did the situation with the GF turn into that?
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
It's not unusual. AWALT. Don't get married. Don't live with a woman. Enjoy the decline.
IdeaSnob 8y ago
So you had a joint bank account?
The_Red_Paw 8y ago
No. The situation was unusual, I bought the house from her family, so she was already 'part' owner in the eyes of the state, even though she had no skin of her own in the game.
And she had kids so the judge felt bad about giving me my house and putting her and the kids out, so she gave me the divorce rape treatment. You wouldn't believe some of the shit that went down.
favours_of_the_moon 8y ago
If a bitch thinks she has ANY leverage over you at all, in any way, she will press that button until it doesn't work anymore.
james-watson 8y ago
Just like to add a quote from the venerable Talulah Riley, who may be a billionaire soon:
"Elon doesn't have to listen to anyone in life. No one. But he proved he would take s**t from me."
RedLavaLamp 8y ago
This. This is beautiful. Well said.
memphisjohn 8y ago
Over 40 here but really can't comment on OP's questions b/c the guys I know over 40 are either divorced and staying that way, or, married and tied down to some degree or another. BTW, true long term stable good marriages do in fact still exist... I know a few.
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gonorealover 8y ago
lol go back to tumblr sweety
[deleted] 8y ago
I don't get what it is, we must have a big influx of dudes into rp lately, who for some strange reason, think RP men dont cheat. What the fuck is wrong with y'all? 95% of women are going to cheat on you, you'd have to be an idiot not to cheat. Plus, women love it when you cheat (usually). If you're alpha enough, it shows you have options. Stop with the moral faggotry.
TrumpsPornTape 8y ago
Holy shit. Yall are ridiculous. I like some of the principles on here but we should still try to be good people. Call me beta if you want I don't care. You can be assertive and aggressive without being a piece of shit.
[deleted] 8y ago
Good people get shitted on. I agree you shouldn't be a raging selfish asshole all the time, but good people get fucked. I disagree that we should be good people. Be good to men, be evil to women. Whether youre dark triad alpha chad or charming asshole, etc. TRP is amoral tho.
TrumpsPornTape 8y ago
Haha who shit in your cornflakes? Ive seen 2 types of people on this subreddit so far. There are smart men using evolution to thier advantage. And there are boys who have been so butthurt they never recovered. Grow the fuck up and take your lumps. If you're smart you will learn from them in a productive way. You fall into the second category I'd assume. You were hurt and now you've overcompensated. Be a man. "We should be good people. Good to men, be evil to women." Spoken like a true dumbass. Enjoy having half the people in your life hate you.
[deleted] 8y ago
Whatever man. I treat most girls I meet like shit (in a charming way tho, not like full on douche bag. Not that ragey) and they love it. They're never gonna hate you for treating them bad, they crave it. I've never been hurt by a woman, cause ive never liked or respected them enough to care that deeply. I've been a misogynist since I was younger, but girls have always liked me, ironically. They really don't serve a purpose for me but pussy. If you really think being a good person applies to women, thats on you. They don't deserve it, and don't respect it.
the_pill_is_free 8y ago
They are all bimbos under the right circumstances -- you just fell for her lies.
[deleted] 8y ago
Something is happening to the redpill that I don't like. A lot of beta faggotry is joining and contributing to the sub. These guys think there are lots of exceptions to awalt.
[deleted] 8y ago
If you're taking control of your life and it's decisions, this question should seem rather silly, because it is.
This is the kind of question that you can ask if you passively accept whatever life deems worthy to put onto you.
I'm 36, Commonlaw, happy. Around me, you see guys owning their lives, and doing well. I'm also seeing guys who let life 'happen' to them. Pregnancies, etc... They are making it work, but every now and again they have that moment of regret slip, then back to their lives.
As for the life choices, make em and own the consequences. I've completely upended my life post RP... it's been great, fear and anger were great motivators, as was planning.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 8y ago
If people drop you, LET THOSE FUCKERS GO! Getting married to keep friends is one of the wrongest reasons. If you're on the type of career path where you'll never make partner if you're not married that might be different.
I'm in my late 40s, never married, have seen plenty of people go through it with regrets, and others that are happy that way. It's just the way I like things; I've never needed people to get through the day. I'm satisfied with having had many different partners in life, and at times I have several at the same time, which is like living many lifespans in one.
You are at the age where your female cohorts are hitting the wall and desperate to pair off; the pressure is on from every direction to get married now! However, as a man your SMV has yet to peak. My love life was just getting started at 30, and the 30s and 40s have been great. I would have missed out on a lot if I latched on to one woman.
Do what YOU want to do, not what others are pressuring you to.
[deleted] 8y ago
Fucking A man. I thought I was done after I got through my 20's and the disappointment looking back was tremendous.
But it just got better once I hit 30. And better. Aaaand better.
MeditateErrDay 8y ago
Does your main gf have a side plate too? If no, how would you feel if she did?
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BeyondDedication 8y ago
I'm 30 and hitting a major slump. Can you elaborate on your statement please?
Got my six figures, six pack good to go. Lack of social status is my downfall. Trying to capitalize on my position and get back into the swing of things...
benuntu 8y ago
Work on social status like you do your six pack and income. Join a volunteer or professional group (Boys & Girls club, park/city planning, Rotary Club, etc.). Find people to join a team with (softball, crossfit, running club). Expanding your social circle will provide opportunity to get involved and become known in the community.
Meat-on-the-table 8y ago
Cannot emphasise this enough. Too many men follow the herd and get married just so they won't be edged out by a society that cares little for you and is more concerned with maintaining its status quo. I'm a firm believer in learning to be alone
Jojonounee 8y ago
I love being alone too much, I have to push myself to get out in the world. Necessary because I turn into Golem when I spent too long inside only leaving the house to walk the dog. The only thing pushing me everyday is the fear of becoming a loser.
savoryprunes 8y ago
What you just described was me and my dog just a few years ago. You're describing depression.
It's healthy to embrace your introversion but you need to get outside, my friend. Find hobbies or, better yet, career pursuits that get you outdoors or at least out of your house. Some time in nature is ideal unless you're the very rare type that is "grossed out" by it.
You must push yourself to do things until they become healthy habits. Getting out and being active is not unlike brushing your teeth. Sure, your motivation can be to keep your teeth from rotting out. But another motivator can be to have a clean, healthy smile. See what I did there? I just described the same thing but with the opposite attitude/perspective.
Don't let fear be your only motivator. Positive thinking can do wonders for you. For now, the "fake it until you make it" principle applies. You're not going to have one single "aha" moment that will change you overnight. You can be a happy introvert with plentiful solitude peppered with adequate social interaction if you do it right. "Do" is the key.
Jojonounee 8y ago
I will remember these words, thank you!
Napolean-complex 8y ago
I am exactly the same. I enjoy my own company more so that then the company of others. I do not, how ever, fear becoming a loser. Maybe I am older then you and that type of mentality has passed? Im not sure...
Jojonounee 8y ago
I'm 27, this fear may very well be age related.
savoryprunes 8y ago
Yes you are probably a little older, like me, and you've managed to not become a loser in that time. Maybe you remember that mentality? I do. In hindsight, I think it's better described by FOMO (fear of missing out).
[deleted] 8y ago
Where can I learn more about being comfortable being alone?
triperfecta 8y ago
From my experience, there is no resource or thought experiment that can teach you how to be comfortable "being alone".
Have you ever heard the saying:
"One can't learn patience meditating alone on a mountain? "
It means the only way to learn patience is to have yours tested. That being said, practise being alone; go on weekend outings alone (and by "alone" I mean resist the urge to sidle up to people at the hotel bar); put your phone on manner mode and ignore all your calls and messages all weekend; my favorite: go camping alone; (There's something to be said for being in the wilderness with no one to depend on); go to another country by yourself.. and don't make friends.
As someone who revels in being alone, and continuously looks for new activities where I can remain so, that's my advice.
[deleted] 8y ago
Sounds good, thanks for responding.
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[deleted] 8y ago
No kids, eh?
Why can't you do that while married? For many people on this sub, marriage seems to be synonymous with monogamy.
beachbbqlover 8y ago
Unless it's open from the start, it makes your word worth shit. I'm a firm believer in not making promises, but if you do, keep them. Not for her good, not for morality, but because you lose value to yourself.
[deleted] 8y ago
That's not even a rational thought. Marriage is a contract. Breaking the contract would damage your integrity. There's nothing wrong with renegotiating the terms of a contract.
beachbbqlover 8y ago
You're right. It's that you don't breach contract. Renegotiating is fine.
[deleted] 8y ago
Because marriage is fucking dangerous?
[deleted] 8y ago
Sure, but it can also be financially rewarding if you're smart and cover your ass. Many people here get so caught up in a certain way of thinking that they stop thinking for themselves.
[deleted] 8y ago
Imo, You shouldn't get married unless: 1) you are the most alpha fucker alive 2) you want a family And even then, you shouldnt get married because:
1) child support 2) divorce 3) familiarity breeds contempt 4) hard to spin plates 5)fucks up the power balance and gives a woman power over you 6) most women are not loyal and you are likely to be cheated on. Plus hundreds more reasons not to.
Can you give me some examples of how it's financially rewarding?
bihari_baller 8y ago
I've always wondered, why would one be prevented from making partner if they were not married, providing they are otherwise qualified (or any similar promotion for that matter)?
realize_real_lies 8y ago
It isn't really but at some firms it might be a slight negative.
In finance and law it becomes a sales/relationship game when you get to those higher levels. A large component of that is how likable you are as a person - men with spouses just seem more trusting and fit in better at some of the dinners and events that you will be required to attend. For men that aren't married, people tend to wonder if something is wrong with them that they can't find a wife.
bihari_baller 8y ago
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification
vengefully_yours 8y ago
You don't have to marry her. Stock with one girl if you must, don't get married.
It's really that simple.
alexistheman 8y ago
Not to pick bones here, but you forget that the common law treats couples who cohabitate for a certain number of years as married with all rights of survivorship.
Not a lawyer, however, I know at least three (much) older couples for whom this has become an issue.
vengefully_yours 8y ago
Depends on the state, only a handful do the common law thing.
GainzdalfTheWhey 8y ago
Man, I read your post and it was amazing. I'm 27 and I feel exactly the same, plate spinning isnt enough for me. I've had a gf for 2 years, and about a month ago added another girlfriend, the second is aware of the first. First isn't since she didn't start that way.
Its amazing, I would really like to discuss this further. I do have one quick question for now.
I would like to spend a holiday or extended weekend with the new one. How do I get time off from the older without having her be suspicious and not preferably not lying.
Also would I benefit from telling the second that she's "more than a plate"? Or I just let her know with say spending and entire weekend with her etc
[deleted] 8y ago
You're going to fuck yourself if you think you can have a LTR who doesn't know about your plates. Long term, eventually she will find out and you'll be on the hook for all the "damage" you caused.
Some guys can make it work. But that's the exception, not the rule.
Blackdragon does a good bit about how to create a non-monogamous relationship and I think you should check it out.
Blackdragon
GainzdalfTheWhey 8y ago
So if there are exceptions why are you guaranteeing me I'm not one? That's defeatist of you. Also an ltr isn't a marriage, she won't ruin anything, because you don't ltr unstable people.
bhaknu 8y ago
Because you haven't done it before. It takes failure to learn. Your new girl is eventually going to get jealous and tip off the old one so they can have their stupid cat fight. If you're lucky it will be a private battle. If not it will be a social media disaster. The best policy is to keep them totally separated because once one knows about another it's out of your hands. Gentlemen never tell. You told. You are no longer in control. It's up to new-girl now.
GainzdalfTheWhey 8y ago
They are both out of social media actually.
[deleted] 8y ago
Because despite all of the "You can do it!" posts on TRP, most of the guys in here are going to fall into The Rule category and will not be The Exception.
Go ahead and do what you want. I wanted to give you some info on how you could get your bitch to get comfortable with you dating someone else, although at 2 years, that's going to be fucking hard work.
As far as answering your questions:
1.) You get time off by taking time off. You are already in her frame if you're worried about her being suspicious.
2.) No. Investing in her feels will increase her entitlement and she'll be relentless in chasing what she feels is hers by right. Unless that's what you want, if you want her to remain a "plate", keep it casual and don't categorize her.
GainzdalfTheWhey 8y ago
I do appreciate the link dude, no question about it
[deleted] 8y ago
How did you get the 2nd girlfriend to be okay with that?
GainzdalfTheWhey 8y ago
Second know I have a gf and was curious about me I guess, but now she sticks around because I make her tingles ting.
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yomo86 8y ago
Hi there. I'm in my twenties but I hope i can contribute a bit og my wisdom.
Seeing one of my step-dads I can give you one advice, as soon as people are settled women want to unsettle it. Sure the white picket fence and the Benz in the garage are quite ok but they are also proof of her inability to get some young hot guy with a leather jacket - you know Sex and the City style.
This is the only difference I was able to see. The longing for adventure. Besides my shriveling body in my 40s I look quite happy towards it. You are the man. You got money. You got the attitude to just lay back after the gym or work and say fuck you world. No one doubts your decisions as long as you are owb your own ie no wifey.
All this is sucked out of a man as soon as he lets himself go or marries which triples his problems.
[deleted] 8y ago
A steady relationship too much for you to handle?
RedEyesBlueShades 8y ago
Dude, seriously? You've been making comments all over the thread and it didn't dawn on you? Suggest you click the back button on your browser and GTFO.
[deleted] 8y ago
Right? Dudes a faggot. Been contaminating the sub lately. THE WHOLE POINT OF RP IS SEX, AND USUALLY CASUAL. CUT THE BETA SHIT OUT
[deleted] 8y ago
I should have known the answer was obvious.
yomo86 8y ago
Ok I'll bite. What is in a relationship for me?
[deleted] 8y ago
Nothing. He's just deluded.
gonorealover 8y ago
This subreddit is so done .
Looks like I'll have to start my own group pretty soon.
[deleted] 8y ago
Right? So many fucking beta faggots are joining, trying to change the meaning of alpha to some nice guy shit, saying you should be loyal to women, not cheat, awalt etc etc
Its retarded man, this is the damn redpill.
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Meat-on-the-table 8y ago
Lester ended up that way because he was a beta that went off-script. If you're driven from your earlier years onwards, people can't really corral you in because you've already proven that your way is the only way.
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ThrowingMyslfOutther 8y ago
Lol, nah. You'll see, it's a cornucopia of pussy.
realize_real_lies 8y ago
I don't know who Lester is and are you referring to me as beta? because nothing in my post is beta. It is simply trying to get an unbiased look at what to expect in the next 20 years and then weighing my options. Community likes to label everything alpha/beta - which is silly. Also TRP doesn't mean you never marry - it is about understanding male/female dynamics and leveraging that in a way that works for you.
[deleted] 8y ago
I may have no say in this considering I'm not even 20 yet. But I urge you, do not get married. Your probability of making it out on top with a loyal female and benjamin's in your hand is next to slim. But go ahead if you please. Just be aware of the consequences.
IamGale 8y ago
After all the comments you've read do you still want to get married and have kids? Or just have kids?
gonorealover 8y ago
Your whole plan and future reeks of beta mentality . The fact that you consider getting married is already a case closed . You probably will get divorce-rape in the future.
Morons deserve to get divorced-raped. Do what you want , cuck .