I posted this on the Married Red Pill sub a few weeks back, as I felt this advice was more applicable to those who were already in a LTR or marriage but after thinking about it, I feel like this information can help the younger generation out.
Whether your goal is to spin as many plates as possible or to date and be in a relationship with someone, your role as a red pill man does not change. (Sidenote, please don't get married or consider that until you are least in your 30s, if at all).
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Background
First of a little about me. I am 34 in a LTR with a 26 year old woman. Fully took the red pill many years ago but am constantly still learning and evolving.
My gf was initially was one of my plates but over time she proved worthy of a much more serious commitment so I dropped everyone else I was seeing at the time and became exclusive with her. For the first 8 months of the relationship, everything was great. I fully embraced my role as a masculine man and she was able to relax and flourish with grace and femininity. I am the captain and she is my lieutenant. Things were great, until slowly but surely I lost sense of who I was and reverted back to my old blue pill tendencies.
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The Progression of my relationship (from Alpha to Beta)
As the relationship progressed, my love for her grew more and more. Gone was the idea that she was replaceable at a moment’s notice to thinking she was a rare Unicorn who I was going to marry and have children with. The thought of losing her started to become unfathomable to me. With those feelings came my beta like behavior. Never wanting to disagree with her. Making sure she was happy, without regard to my own happiness. Allowing her to change certain aspects of myself because I thought that is what she wanted (my hairstyle, what I ate, etc).
It was pathetic. When she was a plate, I never would have tolerated any such behavior because I wasn't scared to walk away. But over time I fell in love and slowly my masculinity drifted away and I was slowly letting her have my balls on a platter. As you can probably imagine, things between us became terrible. The more I was pleasing her, the more bitchy she became. We started arguing more, sex was less, and it never seemed like she was happy. To say I was resentful is an understatement.
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The Moment Everything Clicked
I vividly remember the moment the lightbulb clicked in my head. I was at her parents house celebrating her birthday. She was being a bitch as usual and my phone happened to be on the table. She knew the password to my phone and started looking through my messages. I was very uncomfortable with the fact but I was too much of a pussy to upset her. I noticed she started to look through messages between my mother and I. I told her if she would mind giving me back my phone. She said no and kept reading. I asked her again. She ignored me and kept reading. Then the third time I regrettably whined and yelled at her and grabbed the phone from her hand. She then proceeded to scold me like a child and demanded that I never talk to her like that again. And then, it all made sense to me. I realized the problem wasn't her. It was me.
I lost my way as a man.
It was as simple as that. I no longer was this masculine man who was the leader of the relationship. I no longer was a man that people wanted to respect and follow. I no longer was a man who believed in himself and was willing to set boundaries and walk in a moment’s notice if those boundaries were crossed. Her frame became my reality.
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You are a Man. Act like One.
How can a man expect his girl to love and respect him if he isn’t fulfilling his role as a man should be in a relationship? How can he expect his girl to be feminine and sweet if his actions are causing the polarity between the two to fade away? Her bad behavior was a result of my inability to be the man she fell for in the first place. Her bitchiness and nagging was her way of crying for help. It was her way of indicating I needed to change and be the man I know I am capable of becoming.
From that day forward the entire relationship changed back to the way it was before. Even though I love this girl, I realized that I had to respect myself first and foremost and make myself happy. Setting boundaries, telling her no, not changing my unique quirks just to please her. I had to adopt the mindset that things may not work out between the two of us but even if it ends I WILL BE FINE.
Once I did that, the bond between us grew exponentially and things couldn’t be better. She no longer nags or complains because she knows I will walk. She is completely comfortable now being in her feminine because she can finally feel my internal strength again. She feels that if she pushes me to far, theres another girl ready to take her place.
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TLDR: A women will never love you unless they respect you. In order to get that respect from her, you have to be the leader of the relationship, who is willing to walk away if yours needs aren't met. Never for one minute play the role of victim nor ever consider fundamentally changing who you are, especially for a girl. Be the captain and she has no other choice but to follow. She’s either in or she’s out. It’s as simple as that.
Razkolol 5y ago
She was reading your messages with you present and after you yelled at her she told you not to talk back like that? xD I don’t see how you can gain back her respect after that tbh, i’m getting angry just thinking about that situation, why dafuq would she have your password too? That level of disrespect is huge, would you tolerate that from one of your buddies? If not why would you tolerate it from her?
aznkid24 5y ago
Hey, fellow lurker here. Was wondering how would you go about getting your phone back?
UmbreFezz 5y ago
Take it out of her hands dude, man up.
RealisticKiwi 5y ago
First ask, if nothing then grab her hands and take my phone back forcefully. Really no offense, but this seems obvious for me. Is not it?
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Victor-James 5y ago
Pretty much this. Try your best to act stoic and be the emotionally stronger force in the relationship. Look her dead in the eye, after you get your phone back, and calmly tell her "Never to do that again". And walk away.
319Skew 5y ago
Just want to add "and mean it."
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Big difference between a hollow bluff and one that you have every intention of following through.
Victor-James 5y ago
Yeah, it was very disrespectful but I have no one else to blame but myself.
Hindsight is 20/20 but the takeaways here are that you must always be comfortable saying no to your girl, setting boundaries, and be willing to walk. Had I done that at the time, there is absolutely no way she would have dared acted like that.
Never give your girl the keys to your kingdom nor sacrifice your happiness for hers.
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gixxerthouguy 5y ago
100%. One of my failings was not providing that roller coaster of emotions. I never did anything to warrant being called an ass hole. I didn't lead, I let her lead, and she did it badly. When I complained, then the emotional responses started. Arguments would be started, but I wouldn't entertain them. Just STFU, but in a total beta way.
Nice guys finish last, 100% everytime. Be yourself, put yourself first, DGAF.
And when you are with a girl, bring your A game. Be awesome, fun to be around. These things to me are the massive RP truths I will never try to forget.
DoneScannedIt 5y ago
You are still using beta-mindset words here. providing, bringing. It is seems like you are still focusing on what you can bring to the relationship (with your choice of words). You do the best you and let her come to you, bringing her best. Just the thoughts that cross my mind.
gixxerthouguy 5y ago
Yeah maybe - maybe it's just a poor choice of word. What I am more concerned about is the following sentence - never being called an ass hole. This really means never putting myself first, not focusing on me.
DoneScannedIt 5y ago
Start early, build your frame and you may never get to the point where that label applies. If you set the expectations from the start, and delay-and-moderate the amount of times you operate from someone else's frame, your behaviour will become expected and accepted. It's when you decide to "change" yourself for the better, suddenly, as a new behaviour, that people really start to freak and fight your change/stance. After 20+ years, I've just decided to start fresh.
IAMB4TMAN 5y ago
Solution to issue (other than acting RP from the start): Dread game
RedHoodhandles 5y ago
TLDR for the TLDR:
Guy goes exclusive with his main plate. Guy gets betaized. Guy is hamstering that he can win this battle long term. Guy posts lessons learned on TRP.
TopOccasion29 5y ago
Exactly. He just reset the cycle and it will happen again. His LTR has already lost all respect for him.
JonathanMekerset 5y ago
Need to put that hoe in her place
jihocech 5y ago
Always the same. Shit tests. We will never be free from the burden of performance.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Men never have the right to complain about bad behavior.
If she's behaving like shit it's because
A) He's not in control
B) He chose a shit partner
C) He's putting up with it
Either way, he needs never look further than his own decision/behaviour.
HumanSockPuppet 5y ago
Training bitches is not an option. It is a requirement for any kind of sustained interaction with women.
You are the master, or you are the slave. It IS that black and white.
KeffirLime 5y ago
Organizing into hierarchical structures is a natural process for humans.
Relationships are no different, it's simply a pool of 2.
Ascend it, or be ascended.
dingleburry_joe 5y ago
Well said
Victor-James 5y ago
this x100. Clear, succinct, and precise.
ScribeThoth 5y ago
And the role of personal responsibility is what?
KeffirLime 5y ago
Control, of your life, your behavior and ultimately your results.
If you outsource responsibility you are permanently at the mercy and whims of external forces.
studentsensei 5y ago
I understand the spirit of this post but at the same time I must stress to exercise caution.
I don't care how "beta" your behavior is. That is no excuse to tolerate abuse. Did you hit her? Did you cuss her out? Did you go MIA for days on end? No? Then why the fuck is she disrespecting you? There are normal women out there that won't treat you like shit for buying them gifts and being more "beta".
Learn to set and have boundaries. This is what normal people do. Unfortunately TRP has a slew of men that have no idea how to, even after "swallowing" the red pill. They just say, "I'll just act alpha again," and be stuck within an abusive cycle.
Every relationship has its ups and downs, which is fine. But don't let yourself equate being "alpha" with being respected, and being "beta" with deserving disrespect and abuse. LTRs shouldn't disrespect you without a swift apology. Period.
Though sometimes she may need a swift kick in the ass though.
Victor-James 5y ago
Respectfully disagree. In my experiences AWALT and even the most innocent sweet virgin girl next door can and will disrespect you at some point in the relationship, if you aren't fulfilling your role as a masculine man in todays society. Its human nature
Of course, some women are more prone to disrespecting their men than others but that is a different story altogether.
However I absolutely agree with you that you must learn to set and have boundaries. Never and I mean never be afraid to say no.
studentsensei 5y ago
Of course you will be disrespected. That's part of life. There's levels though, and that's where boundaries come into play.
You talked about her berating and belittling you for being beta. Again, you didn't put your hands on her, cuss her out, or ghost her for days on end. You're saying the "worst" thing you did was shower her with gifts and affection and she slowly but surely spazzed on you?
Like, I get it. I really do. Sometimes when you feel like your partner is turning into something undesirable (read: a beta) women may lash out due to resentment.
But all of this "I wasn't alpha enough so I deserved it" shit is for the birds. Normal people don't think this way, and normal women won't disrespect you for like this for gasp treating them well after you've displayed your masculine qualities.
Do you know how much shit women give one another for treating a gift giving beta like shit? Sometimes they plot to steal the man away from the women that are ungrateful, like your LTR.
But I understand what this post is trying to say. However it's a slippery slope. If you have doubts in your ability to uphold boundaries then maybe an LTR isn't for you.
jihocech 5y ago
You need alpha to attract a woman and a beta to maintain a relationship. Just not to be consumed by betaness.
DeGENZerate 5y ago
Voilence against women isnt categorically beta its just illegal
Kpwn88 5y ago
It is categorically beta. If you hit her, you let her get to you aka lost frame. The only time hitting a woman isn't beta is if it's self defense. Even then, it's more alpha to restrain her and get her to calm down with your commanding presence.
Of course a nice spank on the ass in the kitchen or a slap across the face in the heat of passionate fucking is also alpha, but those don't need explaining.
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jihocech 5y ago
You can not easily walk away when children are involved.
gixxerthouguy 5y ago
No mate, this is how a lot of it is, and why we end up here. My recent divorce was due to this exactly. Gave her everything and she behaved worse and worse. I found TRP, but it was too late for me. I hated her. I can see now why it happened, it was my own fault. It still hurts though to think you can give someone everything and they are ungrateful as fuck.
good_guy_submitter 5y ago
Aka why socialism and communism fail.
Humans are reward based creatures. This expands beyond gender, but women in particular are bad at long term realization.
When we recieve a reward, our brain more or less tell us we need to do more of whatever we were doing before we got the reward. I swear every time I talk about this...
we're danm dogs. We can train ourselves and others with this.
Never reward bad behavior.
319Skew 5y ago
Been there, brother.
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It's quite a surreal experience when you look at it from BP lenses and wonder why she's behaving the way she is. The moment you step back and put on RP lenses it's crystal clear. Wish someone had introduced me to this growing up. Still better late the never.
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Stay strong.
AllinWaker 5y ago
I'd say if you gave her everything you failed to set boundaries, which is exactly what he is talking about.
hawkeaglejesus 5y ago
"The quickest way to make a woman miserable is by giving her everything she wants."
gixxerthouguy 5y ago
Yes you are right, 100%. I let her walk all over me. It was my own fault. It will never ever happen again.
Victor-James 5y ago
I am happy to hear you found TRP and learned from your divorce . Kudos to you for making yourself a better man and learning what needs to be done in your next relationship.
gixxerthouguy 5y ago
I am in another LTR, with a bit of a unicorn. She doesn't nag, whine, bitch. She earns good money, pays her way. She puts out, loves sex as much as me. What's nit to love about it?
Well, I do as I please. I work on me. I don't neglect her, I am kind to her as she is to me. But I go to the gym and lift. She knows if she asks me not to go, I'll laugh at her.
I also know I am the prize. And, at the same time, it's only my turn. We live together in her house. I don't pay any rent. I pay towards food. That's all. I have my own house, I pay the bills there. I can leave at any time, and I am prepared to. I am not looking for other women, but I am confident that I could find them if I wanted to.
It's all about personal growth. I wish I had this site bookmarked 20 years ago.
DoneScannedIt 5y ago
There are no unicorns. (imho)
gixxerthouguy 5y ago
You're right, I was waiting for this comment! I dropped the word in expecting a much bigger backlash.
Whenever I think about the LTR, and how I am happy with it, I still have to remember that AWALT, and it's only my turn. I need to keep doing me.
DoneScannedIt 5y ago
If only, to drill into your head that there are always options. You have abundance even though you aren't taking advantage of it.
jihocech 5y ago
Are there any children involved? It is all so much easier without those little dirty anarchists.
gixxerthouguy 5y ago
Yes there are kids. I love them dearly. But if I had my time again, I would chose not to be a parent. This sounds harsh, I guess it is. It is the one reason it took me so long to leave the relationship.
HeadingRed 5y ago
"TLDR: A women will never love you unless they respect you. "
Everyone needs to keep that in mind when they start to slide into "nice guy(tm)" mode. You really want to make her happy? Don't make her regret her choice.
Reminds me of another saying I heard here - "If he won't stand up to you he won't stand up for you.
seemsonormal1979 5y ago
So basically you just reset the cycle.
Rkingpin 5y ago
Well done for stopping you're decline before it's too late
bakamoney 5y ago
I know even there was another post yesterday about mushy turds.
I think its lack of abundance which makes it happen.
Yup. And BP mode ignores the forest for the tree. The reason they try conforming to one girl because they feel like that one girl is only what all he has.
I am just starting out but damn is building abundance hard . :S
jalapenotrp 5y ago
I've been married for 14 years, and I've been faithful to my wife all this time, and I have never had issues with my wife as the OP described here.
You need to define and accept the role you play in a relationship. Some men want to be the leaders in a relationship but they don't act or do what a leader is supposed to do, which is "leading"
If your GF or wife is making more money than you, takes care of the finances, and take the initiative to put out fires in the relationship, then you are not the leader, she is, and don't expect her to be submissive to you, she can't.
Victor-James 5y ago
Another great comment. You can't just pick and choose what parts you want to fit your narrative. You have to own it
You want a submissive women? Well then you better be the strong masculine force leading the relationship. Polarity is the key. Embrace your role as a man and act like one.
Congratulations by the way on your successful marriage. Thats wonderful to hear.
jalapenotrp 5y ago
Thanks man!
Is not easy to keep up and nurture a relationship for a long time, because your wife will shit test you all the time, is a constant bombardment, but if you always stay solid like an oak, she will always be that little submissive kitten, urinating of admiration every time you are around.
And the best of all, it all looks natural, for everybody around us, we are a normal couple.
It might look or sound misogynistic to people that haven't taken the red pill yet, but this is the reality when it comes to women.
The red pill is the best framework I have found so far ( I'm an avid reader of philosophy and physics ) that have helped me understand women and relationships in general, it makes sense in theory and what we observe in the world .
I'm sure this is what the Freemasons have been passing on from generations to generations.
chadchadovsky 5y ago
Same story here with my current LTR.
1: Started relationship as alpha. She fell for me hard.
2: Liked her MUCH more than other plates.
3: Became a needy beta.
4: She started behaving very poorly.
5: I knew it's my fault(thanks TRP) but only found "strength" to change after her behavior became intolerable.
6: I Am Chatting with other girls, hitting the gym hard, doing my own things and not actively looking to hang-out with her, not giving a fuck and passing shit-tests with flying colors. No faking at this point, I still like her but seriously don't give a fuck if she goes... Bad behavior won't be tolerated again.
7: All of a sudden she is a sweet little angel again. The second she stops I take away all the attention. If she comes back great, if not ... oh well, plenty more girls dying to meet high SMV guy.
https://imgur.com/a/WO3diCd She wanted to cuddle, just ignored her and went to workout in the other room. Guess who got ass, mouth, and pussy after (not necessarily in that order) :)
Zech4riah 5y ago
I've never understood how guys let themselves to get betaized. The longer I'm with a girl, the more familiar she will become and it's easier and easier not to care about her bullshit and set boundaries.
The hardest part for me is around 6-12 months mark. That's the point where you are really connected with a girl but she is still fresh enough to be interesting. Before and after that time period everything is easy.
Auxfite 5y ago
Once you lose the leadership role in her eyes that’s when the relationship/marriage ends. You can never gain it back regardless if you’re a chad or top 20% . That’s why being in a LTR/marriage is life on hard mode. Born alone die alone.
Seems like Mgtow or monk mode is really becoming a viable option in 2019.
TopOccasion29 5y ago
I'm not a mgtow/monk guy as i love fucking women but i agree LTR & marriages are bad options for men in this modern age. Doing all that work all because of one cunt who can ruthlessly drop you at the little display of one instance of weakness or a failed shit test. I'll rather improve for myself only, keep to my plates and not get divorce raped all because she found someone slightly better than you and her hypergamy kicked in LOL.
Take a look at the married red pill sub...countless stories of men doing all that work, lifting, facing never ending and ridiculous shit-tests, becoming more alpha but their wives are still not attracted to them lmao. You truly can't negotiate desire lmao.
snowmoose1 5y ago
Makes sense, you write about your feelings toward her like a pure bred blue pill. Christ man, we’ve all (most) had oneitis but fuck her man! There is no love, only fear of being alone. Once you have abundance you don’t give a shit no matter who she is. But you learned a lesson.
Also when shit like this happens, as soon as they start nagging like that it’s time to drop them and move one. You can revert them to the former state where you were the leader. She has lost the respect and it can never be gained back. It doesn’t matter if you were the biggest alpha around.
bakamoney 5y ago
I think One-It-Is is probably the root issue of all BP values.
Alpha man just catch it now and then. BP men just catch it with like every girl that gives them some time. (been there)
Even the media sells the idea of "finding the one" way too fucking much
tempolaca 5y ago
I find this is true in all my relationships. All my exes lost respect for me, even if I'm much better now than when I met them in every way. And every girl is the same: all exes are apparently low-life assholes. Why is that? why is so much harder to reconnect with an ex? maybe because she knows all your failings, and stupidly believes a new guy doesn't have any.
That's why always everybody says "it's not worth to reconnect with an ex" it's because it's incredibly harder, is trying to pick up a girl that knows all your shit and ignores all your virtues. I wonder if there's a way around this.
snowmoose1 5y ago
It is cause you aren’t the person she painted out in her mind at the beginning. That alpha stud and frame she once believed you had are to her false. So once she finds out and loses respect for you it doesn’t matter what you do. And those who claim they regained the woman’s respect and they claimed their frame back are simply in thin ice.
She might play it out like that but in reality it’s not the same meaning it’s a lost cause. She already has a plan for herself so she might stay for resources or other emotional reasons until she branches and find someone else that she in her delusional mind paint out as a better alpha until he breaks too. It’s a cycle. LTR like mentioned a lot here, is TRP on roids. If you aren’t solid don’t enter a relationship.
dingleburry_joe 5y ago
I disagree with the "as they start nagging drop them and move on." It depends on the situation.
The problem is that OP didn't see this early enough as a sign to man the fuck up and wanted to please and be all bp. If he has done what he said he's done, and she is not nagging him and having sex on his terms than it's fine. His fate with her varies on how she behaves from now on. If she's lost respect for him her behavior wouldn't change and for sure she'll test him again. If your attempts to put up boundaries that are crossed or the nagging continues and she gonna play high ball than you know you've lost and you leave. Nagging is a good time for you to remind them whose boss. It's how they respond to that gives you your answer on if you should leave or not.
Victor-James 5y ago
Exactly. Your post should be one of the top comments.
Never go by a girls words but rather her actions. How she behaves after I lay down the foundation of what I will and will not tolerate will determine whether I stay or leave.
If a girl doesn't respect you she will not change her behavior. If thats the case, leave.
However, as is the case with my girl, she reverted back to her former sweet feminine self. I gained back her respect, without her really even knowing what I did, and I'm getting everything I wanted. Hence, I'm staying.
dingleburry_joe 5y ago
Just focus on yourself. To be honest man women wage pathological warfare and it’s your frame that rules all. As long as you are honest with yourself about what your saying above than move on with it. You’d be surprised how often we lie to ourselves to enjoy comfort. Even I do it.
Victor-James 5y ago
Well said my friend. Its the fear of being alone that causes us to act in ways unimaginable. It taught me a very valuable lesson and I hope others reading this will not make the same mistake as I did.
[deleted] 5y ago
How did you remedy it?
Can you explain how you gained control / frame again or did you just exit the relationship?
Victor-James 5y ago
I was able to regain frame and control because I was aware of what I was doing and I didn't let it drag on for too long. I left that day and reverted back to my old self instantly. Your mind is a very powerful tool.
The next few days I made sure to prioritize myself first, tell her no when she wanted me to do something and I didn't, and applied a little dread game (going to the gym more, not being as available as much, etc).
The longer you let yourself continue down the path of supplication , without remedying the situation, regaining control will be next to impossible and your best choice will be to leave the relationship. Don't ever let it get that far.
snowmoose1 5y ago
It can also backfire, you are fighting for her when she is bitchy and nagging. Shows neediness cause if you truly are solid and have abundance you’d drop her right away without a drop of sweat and she knows that. You decided to stay, in her mind you have limited to no options of women. They aren’t that stupid, they know what they are doing and they know they are bitchy.
AnyDoughnut 5y ago
I agree that you should never become complacent in a relationship, but staying on top of your game 100% of the time is nearly impossible for 99% of males. Most people will let their guards down, at least to some degree, while in a committed relationship. You just have to do your best to be the leader, not show weakness, and be as emotionally aloof as possible. It's never a good thing if a woman realizes she holds power over you.
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AshyLarry27 5y ago
Prior to TRP, though I acknowledged a lot of PUA content, one that stuck out to me was Josh Pelicer's Tao of Badass. Very corny name, but the guy produced solid content and well thought out, in-depth ideas. Most of what I've seen from new PUA's or whatever, I had already a basic root level understanding from ToB. TRP and the sidebar did help smooth out a lot of things I was still unaware of.
Getting to my point, Josh had a concept about gender roles like a balance scale, emphasizing the importance of maintaining your masculine energy. When you switch to the weaker more feminine "beta" energy, well relationships do not like a vacuum, so the LTR's more grounded energy turns to the new masculine leadership role of the relationship. The spot she does NOT want to be in. This forced swap of roles in the relationship is what causes her to detest you. You were supposed to be the masculine energy looking over the childish feminine energy. Now that care-free child has to be the "responsible" one because the man now wants to be a comfortable beta child.
OracleofFl 5y ago
The OP made this very important point. It is so easy just to say "yes" to everything she asks because in isolation, giving in and saying yes on many minor things you disagree with seems "good for the sake of harmony in the relationship" at the time and because you hate to see her disappointed. Saying "no" is critical to all the silly/stupid requests that she makes. It establishes your role and if nothing else, 200 minor skirmishes are better than 1 huge fight. There is no more frame reinforcing word in the English language than "no".
HS-Thompson 5y ago
Good story, but once you’ve descended to this level of disrespect there’s no recovery. Your relationship is already dead and you’re just walking around rationalizing it.
oldrunnerguy 5y ago
It is great that you realized these things before losing her. I had the situation before I was married, when my ex-wife was my girlfriend, and i remember that it was a time when she wouldn't even think about acting like a bitch. Once I got into marriage it was always me attempting to do damage control. Now that I'm divorced, through sites like this I start to understand the error of my ways. I appreciate the post. I am basically at a point in my life where I am trying to make my son understand these things so that he doesn't put up with the same shit I did. Wish me luck.
Victor-James 5y ago
Like the saying goes, experience is your best teacher. I applaud you for teaching your son the realities of the world and making sure he understands the true nature of male female dynamics
The world needs more men like you who take pride in teaching their sons these things. Best of luck to you.
ahab_dies 5y ago
Great post, takes a lot of strength to see weakness in yourself.
Biggest take away is that the struggle never ends. David Goggins was recently on Joe Rogan and the best thing I took away from him was that the grind never, ever ends. People view reaching their goals as the end game. Nope. There is NO end game. With working out, as soon as you take a break or let your foot off the gas you begin slipping back into your old, weak self. It's the same with being an alpha in a relationship. You need to constantly be pushing yourself and working on it. Just because you've reached the top, does not mean you will stay there. It's not a trophy that sits on your shelf that you can forever use as a pass to get what you want. It's a muscle that will weaken and die if you allow it to.
Relationships are very dangerous for allowing this to happen. When you have someone fall in love with you and care for you it gives you overwhelming validation and messages that you're doing just fine and don't need to work on anything. So, so many men (and women) let themselves go when they settle into a relationship, and it's only a breakup that slaps them back onto the metaphorical treadmill.
I'm currently seeing a girl who very much wants to be exclusive. In the past I probably would have given it to her and given her sweet talk like she's constantly giving me (because she wants me to say it back, that's clearly why she's giving it to me so frequently and I just don't respond). Now I'm aware enough to know that as soon as I give it back, I'll have lost something in her eyes. Hold frame, it's all men are basically meant to do to stay attractive. We have amazing sex but I'm convinced that if I were to start giving her the affection she's craving from me then the sex would suffer and I would become less attractive to her.
Victor-James 5y ago
Wow. This was an incredible response.
You are absolutely correct. There is no end game...ever. Relationships, career, lifting, etc. Never get complacent. Just when you think you have all things figured out, you realize there is so much more to learn. So much more ways to grow and evolve. If you Take your foot off the pedal, you will eventually lose everything you worked hard for.
This is a lesson that we as men need to apply in all avenues of our lives.
Loze1 5y ago
Blue pill conditioning led me to believe that I can depend on my SO for emotional support when I need it. Looks like even when it's tough I'll have to keep holding frame. Is it only while we sleep can we rest, as men? Even then, you've got to sleep lightly keeping your ears open in case of a burglar, etc.
Anyways, great reply. Learned a lot.
Victor-James 5y ago
We all have been there brother. Without a masculine role model in our lives, it’s easy to fall into the Disney/cosmo fallaciy that is laid out for us and what mainstream society wishes for us to follow.
I’m happy you learned a lot. Never lean on your SO for emotional support. Ever. Even if she says it’s ok to be vulnerable don’t give in.
She is not nor ever will be your mother.
Loze1 5y ago
I've blue pilled myself. I witnessed a lot of domestic abuse as a child and vowed never to treat any woman that way again. My mom was a traditional housewife, never even cheated. My father did and he even told her.
My first relationship showed me how wrong I was about women these days. I did everything right (according to blue pill media). Pretty predictable ending, was emotionally destroyed by then as well. In my search for the truth, it led me to TRP.
markinsinz7 5y ago
You may be right but can't shake the gut feeling that it's wrong and wasteful in a way. If one feels genuine affection for a girl we should display such affection without the worry that the girl is gonna lose attraction or sec will go stale or whatever.
This also begs another question - that is the solution in our evaluation of the girl for LTR or is it a firm A WALT thing and nothing can be done.
DoneScannedIt 5y ago
They don't operate by the same rules. There is no "should". It's what they do, that should be the litmus test. The part of RP that deals with women, is based on observations, not conjecture. Thousands and thousands and thousands of observations and situations. It often doesn't work the way "it should work".
Victor-James 5y ago
I don't want you thinking that you can't display affection to your girl without her losing attraction. That is not the point I'm trying to convey.
Your girl will not be turned off by that (unless you are way too emotional). What she will be turned off by is allowing yourself to become a doormat. A pushover who always does what she wants to do. A man who is afraid to say NO to her. A man who acts like his girl is the last girl on earth and proceeds to give her all the power in the relationship.
That is what will doom your relationship. You always have to get boundaries and act as the Captain.
RedPill115 5y ago
I'm reminded of the post recently that pointed out that the "happy in a relationship" girls that are remotely attractive typically met their boyfriend in early college and have been dating him ever since.
The older the girls get, and the more you're meeting them in clubs etc, the more you meet girls who are more attracted to the game than anything else.
juniorfromgh 5y ago
What's the name of the post
RedPill115 5y ago
Title: Learn how to game mentally ill women, because most women are mentally ill
markinsinz7 5y ago
Well that's like 99% of women but your right. My close friends in successful ltr of 5+ years met the girl in early uni and she had n count of 2 or somethin.
[deleted] 5y ago
can i say this sounds honestly awfully exhausting and very much like a relationship that isn't built on strong foundations?
maybe you're with the wrong person, or maybe you mistake support for validation and that's something that makes the relationship unstable. it's the difference between having a 3 legged stool that has a 4th for support, rather than a 2 legged rickety stool that suddenly has found a 3rd leg. not only is the 3rd leg necessary, the stool is going to unduly strain that leg.
how do you know this?
this sounds psychotic. it sounds like you're in an emotionally abusive relationship with your current partner for whatever reason. withholding attraction for some transactional exchange sounds incredibly unhealthy. did your parents withhold support or appreciation until there were material benefits? sometimes people end up in these unhealthy cycles that they can't help but perpetuate. luckily, you're in the best position to break that cycle!
TheTruthIsASlowBurn 5y ago
Who the fuck is upvoting this
[deleted] 5y ago
people who actually have satisfying and stable relationships? what's with the contentless foul-language criticism?
TheTruthIsASlowBurn 5y ago
He is literally describing how he keeps her attracted and you describe that as psychotic.
The psychotic thing is that it is what she needs for the relationship to be successful.
It seems like you have not read the sidebar.
[deleted] 5y ago
i read that to be an indicator of a broken relationship. that's what i said in the first comment. sure, you have a relationship, but for what joy?
plenty of people have much better relationships built on firmer foundations, shared interests, values, respect, and none of this gaslighting. i'm just here to give that perspective that i think is critically lacking in some of these posts. dangerously so.
TheTruthIsASlowBurn 5y ago
It seems that you reject his level of understanding of her psyche, rather than the positive results achieved.
This entire subreddit is about achieving the desired results and ignoring pleasant lies which do not achieve such results.
Basing a relationship on all of the firmer foundations you described is a wonderful thing... but even then, it can come to ruin due to hypergamy.
What is firmer: the foundation that keeps the relationship intact, or the one that does not?
[deleted] 5y ago
look, i'm not debating any of that here, okay? you seem to have completely mistaken my point. all i'm claiming is that the very premise of this post deserves some re-thinking. it's not a hard thing to swallow. every comment chain here doesn't need to be a damn AWALT circlejerk.
perhaps, perhaps not. one would rather start off with a firm foundation than have to try to "strengthen" it through what feels to me like crazy and inane exercises.
Hektik352 5y ago
Honestly whenever a woman wants to argue with you. Visualize it like a toddler having a conversation with a plastic doll. Things will fall in place and then your soul will die.
Victor-James 5y ago
Haha good analogy. The basis of their arguments are centered around emotion, rather than logic, like it is with men. Its a lose lose proposition and it will lead to nowhere.
[deleted]
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