I'm 48, and unlike my Brother and Sister, never been married. My family, especially Mom and Grandma, feel sorry for me and everyone thinks I've missed out in life without marriage and children; they would be quite wrong. Through having several relationships running concurrently, I feel a satisfaction as though I've lived several lifetimes in one. Instead of feeling like I've missed out as I face the waning decade of mens' sexuality, it's like being Lazarus Long and having a 192-year lifespan to look back upon. I will go to a happy grave.
My preference is LTRS; I've never been married or with a married person, but I find keeping more enjoyable and expedient than getting. Not everyone on TRP seeks this type of relationship, and I'm not an authority on everyone's multi-relationship methods, but I hope this helps to build a body of knowlege about applying TRP methods to managing multiple relationships.
Types of relationship
Not all simultaneous relationships are created equal! I've found across several turnovers of relationship groups, things tend to fall naturally into a semi-orderly pattern. When everyone is satisfied within their role in the giant web, they are likely to work toward keeping their role stable by not making waves they know will ripple to the others and cause trouble. Understanding these roles thoroughly, and treating/keeping everyone within the bounds and expectations of their positions can help you get managing multiple relationships at once down to an efficient system.
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The Main Always an LTR, this is the "official girlfriend" as far as your family is concerned, and the one who gets first priority at all the big holidays. If she comes from outside the plate network she is not informed of it. Sometimes a plate is promoted to main; they understand the situation and desire the position anyway. There is an unspoken agreement that the main will be shielded from all signs of extracurricular activity. There is also sexual meritocracy to my system; the main has first priority to sex, and plate activity falls off as far as 100% according to how well she keeps my balls empty. ETA: Even when this position is filled by a plate fully aware of your sexual ways, the Main is #1 priority for sex, and she's tacitly considered exclusive. Former plates get busy in bed thanks to soft dread, and I strive to keep them content in and out of bed myself. If another plate intrudes, the main is 100% defended and supported. I don't demand exclusivity from women I'm not exclusive with myself, but try to be the man they prefer to fuck.
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Side Girlfriend A favorite plate with whom you share an emotional connection and a full "girlfriend experience" while together- yet you're both able to turn it on and off like a switch between visits. Often someone in an LTR of their own or holding out for one, not a CC rider. Sometimes, side girlfriend status is a placeholder position for the new main when the current one attrits sooner or later, whether openly between you or implicitly. However, a main will seldom move directly to side girlfriend status, though a shut-down and reset through plate status again can be a successful path for this.
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Plate A woman who is knowingly having sex with you on the side, for the sake of the sex only, with little to no emotional or resource input from you. Likely to be dating other men in succession, often not in LTR of their own. This requires the least input from you initially, so when everything goes smoothly it seems like the only way to go. Unfortunately, this is the most volatile type of side relationship, most likely to result in drama that spills over into your other relationships, from stalking, public blowups or confrontations, or expectations, and with the weakest bond they are more likely to bring STDs into the picture. Free plates often take more energy to get, keep, and replace in the big picture, when your goal is an ongoing, hassle free collection of women. If frequent new pussy is your goal, you must recognize and accept the risk it brings to you and your other current lovers.
- Mistress For men of means only; spending your own grocery money on a side woman is foolish, and outspending your main here is a dick move. A relationship involving open support of a woman in exchange for sex, whether cash, groceries, rent, or shopping. This might be a woman you have a love child with, a higher SMV woman than you could pull for free on an open "side" basis. For example a college student for an older man or a desirable woman with more than one longterm "patron"; or a favorite plate fallen on hard times with whom you negotiate better sex (demand,frequency,variety, exclusivity) in exchange for a period of support; sometimes you just find a great value and pride in bettering the life of someone who you're regularly intimate with. Beware of cognitive and emotional traps and wallow in it, if this brings you joy and possibly peace with your sex. Mistresses might get second dibs on major holidays, often the weekend before or after with your main, but this class of relationship has an explicit understanding that it is subordinate to the main, and she accepts this position without fuss or complaint as part of the financial deal. Least likely to incite damage to your main relationship. Young men starting out might classify a plate that commands more resources than his others as a sort of mistress, to remember to fully negotiate his position in this relationship.
How it began
After a blue pill early love life with serial oneitis relationships that bloom, stagnate, and die over time in a pattern familiar to many here, I raised my SMV and hit a stride with women by my 30s. A "crime of opportunity" occurred when somebody really wanted to be with me knowing I was in an LTR. It hit me, I could parallel process several relationships at a time, staggered at different stages. This both quickly filled whatever I felt I had missed out on when younger, and effectively sped up the throughputting of women through my love life in search of that ever-elusive unicorn, without necessarily speeding up or rushing the relationship process. Why have just one 4-year relationship when you can have that plus a couple of other relationships spanning 6 months-3 years during the same 4 years, plus a meta-lover occasionally from years before through years after?
Relationship tracks
Long-term side relationships don't necessarily have a beginning, middle, and end like a regular relationship. The most durable and hassle free ones I've known were mutually able/willing to dial it up/down/on/off repeatedly over time, as other relationships wax and wane in our respective lives. Some womens' tracks spanned over a decade and the reign of several mains/others. Others ran their various courses and ended in one run. A couple came back for seconds or more, out of the blue years later. The important thing was, each ran at its own pace and opportunity, but by running concurrently, it amounted to many decades' worth of relationships for me over the course of the past 20 years.
Disadvantages of multiple lovers
It's not all parties and pussy without cost. Most men aren't natural pussy magnets with a constant stream of free groupies available. The average man must work for even "free" pussy, and multiple relationships bring compound and additional costs to the love game.
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Division of time/resources Multiple relationships are inevitably a zero sum game. Time and resources given to one are necessarily taken from the others. It's not a simple math problem; you must manage jealousy, priority, meritocracy, and more than just a calendar. The more serious your main becomes, the more you'll wrestle with the ethics of it all. You may wonder if X relationship would have flourished after all with 100% of your attention. These are some of the gigantic trade offs of this lifestyle.
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Occasional extinction events You might get a psycho-stalker who literally goes pounding on all of your other current womens' doors, or someone who rallies one or more of the other women against you in a sudden coup. The happy, abundant life can hum along just fine for a long time, then suddenly go 100% into the shitter overnight. Effort spent managing everyone's expectations, keeping their needs filled, and avoiding unnecessarily hurt feelings in maintaining and ending individual relationships keeps problems from spreading to others.
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Awkward moments When one lover sees another out with another in public; sometimes it can be played off, sometimes you're ducking back out the restaurant door or side alley, fortunate if the woman you're suddenly frog-marching a new direction plays along without fuss and raising attention. Having four of your current lovers manage to converge in the same room together by chance; one unaware, some knowing of others, none knowing all- now THERE is a dynamic to test your mettle! Then there was the undesired experimental plate who showed up at my work with a dozen roses, and I had to fast-talk her up to speed on her status, and the fact that a long-time heir-apparent to my main position was due for our first official date as an LTR any minute. She left out one door literally seconds before the next one walked in the other... and was slickly presented with a "surprise" of the roses and became an important part of my life for 10+ years after that... but 10 seconds sooner that night would have altered that indelibly!
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Overall lack of spare time You might find your other life activities, relationships, and hobbies limited by the sheer amount of TIME you spend managing multiple relationships. Accept that women are one of your hobbies and be at peace with it. Incorporating your outside interests with your plates can help with this; for instance, keeping my motorsports hobby alive for years AND taking different eager families on excursions many weekends per season. I follow my passion to my own fulfillment, many others get to share the fun without getting burned out- sometimes you can spread disparities of interest into a win-win for yourself and all parties.
- Holidays Oh fuck, Holidays! Manage everyones' expectations in advance to prevent blowups. For those you celebrate with, calendar them carefully, keep your promises, and remember the strength and efficiency of the intermittent reward schedule here. Instead of approaching holidays with a sense of dread, gloom, and botched relations through mismanagement, accept them as a challenge to spread as much happiness as you can with efficiency of effort like a love superhero.
Advantages to a man
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Variety Instead of being married to one woman, I've experienced a tremendous variety. Races, classes, cultures, traditions, relationship styles, power structures or lack of, intergender dynamics; Tall, short, thicker, thinner, PhDs to high school dropouts. I've been able to taste so much variety in my time. ETA: I had a girlfriend older than I am now when I was 30, and am now looking at someone half my age.
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No downtime Besides the power of abundance mentality, having parallel running options at all times pretty much eliminates the cycle time of breakup/gloom/recovery/getting out there again finally.
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Positive experience with multiple kids Not all mothers want you involved with their kids, and these make damn good long-term, low effort plates. For those that do, it is an opportunity for an interested man to enjoy many of the benefits and peak experiences of having over a dozen children, with minimal downside exposure. First days of school, graduations, birthdays, quinceaneras, sweet 16s, first dates, weddings, grandchildren. I've taught many city kids how to ride a bike, hit a baseball, build a good campfire, ride a dirtbike, shoot a pellet gun, recognize and navigate by the constellations, leave the place better than we found it, defend themselves, confront a bully, drive a stick, choose and buy a car, check and fill the fluids, and get a first apartment and eventually, house. I've been a part of the support structure as they meet, keep, and eventually get over a first lover, choose a college, start a career and family.
Critics might suggest it was bad of me to be involved because the relationships weren't permanent, and breaking up with the mother amounted to breaking up with the kids. While there is some truth to this, I've always strongly believed that it is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved. Time has confirmed in most cases where I have long-term feedback on the outcomes: Most of the women in question never went on to enter a lifetime bond with one man. Second and most important, all of the kids that I've had contact with as adults said that our experiences together were some of the most memorable and positive of their childhood, and they are appreciative of my involvement. -
Staggered cycles Women in close contact usually sync their menstrual cycles; plates who never see each other don't, so during any given week at least one woman in your life is out of commission and one is at her horniest. The downside is you'll have to mark your calendar to keep track of when everyone's ovulating; mnemonics like the moon are too easy to mix up in your head when two or more women are at play.
- Peak experiences A few short years after my dry Blue Pill phase of serial relationship bummers, I was filling my own sexual Guiness Black Book. How many girlfriends can you have at once? Five! What's the shortest time to have sex with them all? 36 hours. How long can you keep all that going? Not very. What's the most girlfriends you break up with in a day? Two, unimaginable to my old BP oneitis-riddled self. In the end, quality proved better than quantity. Managing large numbers was a thrill at first, but sometimes you're literally speeding from woman to woman and the abundance can become a burden quickly. For the long haul, it's much easier to keep 2-3 satisfied and on cruise control, than to maintain the record breaking numbers of your love life.
Advantages to the women
Critics are no doubt fuming- HOW could you so selfishly take ADVANTAGE of all these women? I thought I'd mention some of what should be obvious advantages to the women, for their sake.
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Abundance is a two way street Many women are quite happy to maintain a steady non-exclusive partner for the same reasons as men. Having a good plan B man available part time is quite empowering- women who had a pattern of developing oneitis for jerks found this helped them break this cycle finally, as one firsthand example I've seen. Variety and a little social risk is exciting. I've never had to persuade a side plate or girlfriend to enter or remain in an openly secondary position.
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Filling in the gaps like a smorgasbord Not every person can be 100% of what another needs in a partner over the long haul. That doesn't always mean you must end things with a mostly quality partner you've developed a good companionate relationship and public life with. Having those certain needs filled elsewhere can actually strengthen the position of your main, though you're extremely unlikely to sell her on this point right after she discovers the situation by surprise! Your main might be an excellent companion, partner, co-parent, or whatever durable reasons for keeping but unchangeably passive and conventional in bed. An occasional visit to the adventurous tattooed chick and the butterface with the exquisite ass that loves to grind into you, and your main need never feel unwanted pressure to overperform or be replaced entirely. I can say with firsthand certainty- the right amount of variety on the side can make a main LTR MORE healthy.
- Familiarity and safety One-night stands are much riskier for women, both physically and emotionally. Having a regular lover even on a part-time shared basis allows a sufficient connection to exist, and reduces the stigma of sleeping around, in her own eyes and others'.
Summary
As an LTR minded man who rejected marriage and found serial monogamy frustratingly slow of a throughput for the time my life span offers, I found a love life niche in running several LTRs in parallel. There have been many costs and challenges and some mistakes and regrets, but looking back over the last 20 years, it's as though I lived several lifetimes in that period. In a world where marriage has been corrupted into a bad deal, this is one method for experiencing many of the good aspects of human pair bonding, as well as a satisfying variety, all within one lifetime. Edit: Format, typo, add sentence
GreenScreenLovin 9y ago
Sir, you are my spirit animal. I hope to do better than you have done, which might be difficult, but I think you'd agree that as a man it is better to accomplish more than those before you.
Thank you for this post.
apachemd 9y ago
I like it all. Except -- I don't want chicks I'm banging to be banging anyone else. So I guess the only way to accomplish that is to increase my SMV to sky high levels and maintain a harem - e.g. Hugh Hefner-style?
[deleted] 9y ago
It's statistically improbable for a subreddit of all places to have so many members juggling so many plates. There might be 1 person max in here doing it.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
I wouldn't have believed it in my 20s either. I was the beta orbiter left watching as my oneitis walked away from me with the man she was actually fucking, then later became the disappearing Alpha back leading the woman myself. Improve your SMV and you will become that man yourself. Improbable, maybe; but not impossible as it's being done every day.
I've actually LIVED both sides of the SMV equation. There is a lot of noise and junk here, but the core tenets of TRP accurately frame my life experiences; the place totally sang to me when I found it at this age.
ShanksNes 9y ago
This is fucking gold. Thank you. Can somebody sticky this one?
[deleted] 9y ago
ITT: everybody has 5 bitches
HeadingRed 9y ago
Great post brother. Been a serial LTR guy for years (late 40's here) and never married. From what I understand now in the past I did plates as auditions for LTR then dumped the plates and rolled my time into the LTR which failed. I see the ups and downs you have had and see many of mine and even more missed opportunities.
Nice commenting on the children of the LTR you have known- over the years I have been able to do some of what you have and it does make me smile from time to time. Heading out of my current LTR and one of the things I will miss is my pseudo-dad\big brother status- good to see someone of character willing to on occasion be the man when others won't step up.
That being said, everyone reading do not take that as the reason to suffer. While exceptions exist there is a reason why she is single with children- and more than likely you can't fix that.
Ballosaurus 9y ago
Amazing post. Very relevant to my interests, and you've done a great job of explaining it in an eloquent way.
Will you please comment on the in's-and-out's of dropping a plate?
Seems you've been at this long before text/cell phones even; how much history must elapse between the two of you before a meet-up becomes necessary? Does it ever? How often does a simple phone call end it? Do you ever push-pull until she has to make the decision to not call again, effectively making it her decision? On what do you base these decisions?
I'm sure all of these have occurred, and I'm not asking for specifics, more your views on the 'end stage.'
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
You're correct, I've been doing this before the WWW, once got dates through newspaper personals and swapping letters, text BBSs on a 33K modem, and even today land decent sex partners with no picture ads from that cesspool Craigslist, and still have never even owned a cell phone. Undersell/overdeliver makes for smooth and productive first meetings.
Breaking up with even a casual lover by phone is a dick move, regardless of which party initiates. Do it in person! The stakes are MUCH higher if it's a side plate and she undertakes a mission to destroy your other relationships.
It's one thing to tell a new lover that the woman yelling at you outside a restaurant is an angry ex you broke up with last month; you'd laugh together and it would likely strengthen your intrigue. It's quite another if your lover points out, "But WE'VE been together for 2 years, WTF!?"
Conscientious during and aftercare of each individual are key to keeping your love rectangle intact and drama-free as a whole.
Ballosaurus 9y ago
You are a true Casanova. Thanks for the informed response.
chuckthundercock 9y ago
You are a scholar and a gentleman. Some of this hits home so hard that it made me laugh out loud. Pure gold. You live a charmed life sir, congratulations on all your success. I married young and have experienced much of what you noted, but with the added complexity of a marriage.
Now in my 40's I stick to nothing but sugar daddy arrangements. Keeps me in complete control and let's me hold hb10 girls waiting in the wings. Good tip on not letting emotions get involved. Had to next a 21 year old when she asked me twice (what would it take to leave your wife.)
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
Thank you; it was a pleasure to write, and I had to leave out some humorous anecdotes as it had already grown to a Magnum Opus of a first post.
I'd be interested to see you and others with experience with Sugar Daddy and specifically Mentor and college-sponsor type relationships as this is my next avenue of interest. Aside from finally arcing full circle and getting the 24 year old who was fucking older men when I was a BP 24yo, I'd like to catapult a young intelligent woman forward in her life while passing along my knowlege and ideas instead of DNA. This is a shot at immortality without children of my own, and Stepchildren have been a mixed bag in this regard due partly to limited and truncated influence in their lives. Thanks again!
savedarticles 9y ago
Fantastic post. Seriously, one of the best I've read. This has to go into the TRP book compilation.
Fred_Flintstone 9y ago
I really don't have much to say except that this is exactly what this sub is all about. This is a seriously amazingly insightful post. I've saved this and will share to others in the future. If I could give you one of these I would: ♂
illwill203 9y ago
This post is glorious. I have gone this way since my divorce, and I'm glad I read this as it is great insight. I'm only 28 and working on myself, so relationships tend to get in the way anyway. I have always considered this a hobby, and often times it's difficult to relate to people.
How do you deal with the "you're only sleeping with me, right?" conversation? I get that more often than not. Most of the time I can defer or just explain I don't sleep around excessively (grey area) and that we aren't exclusive. Also someone else asked does your main have the option to sleep with anyone else? I don't allow it, but I do feel iffy about that.
Danedina 9y ago
Do you really think she cares if you "let" her sleep around? Unless she's caring for your child she's going to do whatever she wants and tell you what she thinks you want to hear.
smokingmonkey420 9y ago
Excellent post! But, I must ask why shield the main from all other extracurricular activity? Why not just be honest with her ?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
I've found plate-to-main upgrades who come in knowing my poly ways never pushed for actual exclusivity. They have found the #1 priority and frequency, along with a tacit agreement to keep extracurriculars from noticeably intruding upon their position to be sufficient terms of endearment.
Mains who don't come through the plate network are not offered an exclusive marriage track upfront, though the exact level of disclosure has varied with each individual but improved over time as I've gained experience with these type of relationships. Unaware mains coming into the picture result in all plates being dropped; the consistency and enthusiasm of our sex life determines
ifwhen plates creep back in to the background.With strong frame and SMV, and care taken to keep them satisfied, I am carefully vague about exclusivity, and find almost all women will explore the topic with varying determination, but will not pursue it directly and will accept plausible deniablility, IF you're making the effort not to let it be humiliatingly obvious and IF you're responding to whatever doubts arise in her by making her FEEL like the most important woman in your life.
Delivering satisfaction consistently is your most important job; put your efforts here and you'll not NEED elaborate ruses and techniques and a caddish Machiavellian attitude to maintain multiple lovers, fully informed or not.
Fred_Flintstone 9y ago
Its best when they sense it a little bit but dont know explicitly. When they sense it but dont have concrete details they will work really hard to get your attention and have lots of amazing sex and look after you, as its the only move they can play. When they have concrete info like the girls name / who she is / what you are giving her (e.g. gifts/holidays) she will endlessly compare herself with the competition. Rather than competing by offering you more attention she will try and sabotage things with the other girl(s) or compete in ways that are a net negative to all your relationships.
smokingmonkey420 9y ago
Do you think any girls are beyond petty shit like that and can just accept it for what it is?
kevkos 9y ago
I get this but I have a difficult time "hiding" or flat out being dishonest about my extracirricular stuff with her. For example, let's say you were out with a plate on Wed and you're with your Main on Thurs. Main says "What did you do last night?" and you reply "Went to a movie". Then she may ask "Who did you see it with?"
Then you're stuck. If you say "A friend". It's MAYBE not lying, but it's a gray area and for me it doesn't feel good. Also she may come back with "Who?" if she really is your main and knows some of your friends.
Lots of tough situations like this. I'd feel better if everyone knew about each other, but I know the drama could be insane this way.
thenarrrowpath 9y ago
How many children do you have and with how many women?
juanqunt 9y ago
Are the kids you're talking about your biological kids?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
No children of my own; other peoples' kids you can share time and resources of your choosing like a switch and still be a win-win addition to their lives, but from the first time my baby niece started bawling and was handed back to my sister in law, I realized how good it was not to be the actual parent myself.
I've had pregnancy scares and two abortions along the way; as a numbers game alone this is inevitable in an active sex life. Be a rock for your woman if this happens, however the chips fall. A ruthless demeanor may seem expedient to escape the situation at the time, but is liable to haunt your mind later in life. The ethics of multiple women don't become problematic if you take care not to leave unnecessary wreckage along your path, and leave people better than you found them however possible.
4delicioustreats 9y ago
Your post seems to imply, but doesnt directly say that there is deception involved. Do all the women involved understand the situation? Or are you lying about exclusivity?
Danedina 9y ago
This is the best, most fruitful post I've ever read at RP. I'm in my mid-40s, and after a divorce and break-up of an LTR I'm doing some soul-searching and thinking about whether I can handle multiple plates. Your post was right on time and extremely useful, not to mention well written.
The difference between us is that I have two kids who take up roughly half my free time. My LTR fell apart partly because she couldn't deal with my kids. Your post really gave me food for thought.
For the record, I agree that you have been a net positive in the lives of the children you've touched. People coming in and out of your life doesn't have to be a stigmatizing experience.
LeGrandDiableBlanc 9y ago
I don't mean this in an insulting way at all. I am genuinely curious from the perspective of a 25 year old man about to hit a bunch of strides himself.
I'm getting more and more interest from this crowd of women as I get older, and can't help but find it somewhat insulting.
As an aside,
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
Since I really got the game fully figured out in my early 30s and I enjoy the non-sex company of women my age and older, my body of experience so far is exclusively with woman aged 30+. Thanks to TRP, I'm currently making inroads in the half my age plus zero demographic; next year I expect have a report.
You're throwing away opportunities, son. Don't be insulted, be gracious but choosy; and enjoy your pick. The easiest long-term side relationships involve disparities in SMV. Leverage your youth to freely smash eager 35 year olds between younger women; your negotiating power with these is stronger than you've realized. In 25 years, this demographic that insults you today will be your sweet sexual bread and butter but at a cost, and you'll rue the memories of sending them away with an insulted 'tude.
chuckthundercock 9y ago
From my experience in your 20s it's easier to bed women in their 30s and 40s and in your 30s and 40s it's easier to bed women in their 20s. It's counter intuitive but true. If you are 25 with a hot 22 year old gf she is likely fucking an older man on the side.
IllimitableMan 9y ago
Older chicks SMV matches up with a younger guys, and older guys with a younger chicks, so if you're versed in TRP theory this makes a lot of sense, although I can see how it would seem counterintuitive to most.
neomorphed 9y ago
Thanks for the post. As I'm almost 10 years further down the path I just wanted to let you know that the 'waning' likely won't occur as quickly as you may fear. It's great to take stock of where you are, but there's no need to speak in the past tense - you should be able to keep this ride going for considerable years to come!
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kevkos 9y ago
Wow, I've been on this forum for a couple of months but that is by far the best thing I've read here. Really nice work man, I appreciate the time & effort you put into this. I also agree with everything you've said and this promoting healthier LTRs. I was married at one time but find the idea of marriage to be a ridiculous concept now and also tired of serial monogamy in a way.
Haven't finished the entire post but have a few initial questions:
Anyway currently I'm in 1 LTR and she's amazing in many ways but there are some needs not getting met that I really would love to get met. The problem is she is very traditional. She knows how I feel about marriage and seems okay with that but she also has made it clear that multiple people is out of the realm of her reality.
I think this is a fantastic topic and there needs to be a book about this...maybe you could write one. ;)
TeflonDon3000 9y ago
Few insights into the RP mindset on a LTR basis has been explained as well or as throughly as you have done with this post. It has changed my perspective on how to handle women while maintaining that LTR aspect. I plan on implementing and using everything you said here to live the type of life I feel you have already led. One built upon satisfaction, and not on limitations.
Your information is truly invaluable, and I thank you for your efforts.
magus678 9y ago
I have always leaned a bit towards MGTOW, but putting this much time/energy into women sounds awful to me.
Not to rag on those who do this; do your thing. If anything I'm impressed by your commitment.
illwill203 9y ago
the key is balance. I have moved towards a similar life as the OP since my divorce. I work full time, have a daughter and go to school on top of being very strict about my gym time. I balance a few woman at a time and have had a few 6 month relationships that ended up being a waste of my time.
It really is a hobby, but it shouldn't consume you, just like any other hobby.
[deleted] 9y ago
It's a wonderful post and he openly acknowledges the zero-sum aspect.
But you also have to understand a single partner works in zero-sum as well. Any time you give to them is time you're taking away from yourself. It's focus you're taking away from your own life.
So you have to decide:
Do I need the comfort and physicality of a woman right now more than I need everything else?
Because it takes commitment, resources, game, effort, energy, you either do it and have fun doing it or you do it and end up saying to yourself, "Why am I dicking around with all these women when I'm just as happy without them?"
illwill203 9y ago
Strong argument. It really is up to each person and what they desire. Like I said it can be equated to a hobby. I'd never spend time building models or flying planes, but there are people who derive a lot of pleasure from those things.
bsutansalt 9y ago
If you all take away 1 thing from this thread, remember this:
Two women are a conflict, but 20 women is a competition.
symko 9y ago
I always thought it funny that in Mandarin two woman characters means, "argument"
shanghaiex_pat 9y ago
technically true but that word is never used.
H42 9y ago
"Trouble" is an ideograph of two women under one roof. Maybe its the same as your example.
Revo_Luzione 9y ago
Also of note: japanese character "futsukaoi", if memory serves me, is an ideogram containing 3 females. It means "noisy."
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longerdistance 9y ago
Fascinating read. The whole plate spinning things always seemed a little bland to me, but the life you have described sounds like a thrill and completely in line with what I want from life. Thank you for painting me this picture.
94redstealth 9y ago
amazing post. well written and full wisdom with no garbage to clog the message. as a former BB that's working on a divorce and at about the same age you were, this is probably my future path
mryddlin 9y ago
You've describe polyamoury almost to a tee.
Primary (main), secondaries (side GF), play partners (plates).
I've been poly for going on 4 years , it was a difficult transition with my primary but best decision I've made.
I actively date 3 women, who all can have a meal together, so no need to hide.
The biggest advice to give, never break frame, its critical when openly dating multiple women.
TestosteroneFilled 9y ago
Either you're a male model, a dubai sheikh, famous, or a milionaire or this is just unrealistically stupid.
[deleted] 9y ago
It doesn't take anything as much as it takes strong frame. If your frame is strong enough you can easily have multiple women who are aware of each other and accept it. If you're a bad enough dude the chicks will be okay with sharing you because that's the only way they can get fucked by you.
Also, most male models are fantastically homosexual.
[deleted] 9y ago
Lol, you seem ignorant as fuck of reality, but even in this thread: that isn't the case here, the case is this dude lets other guys rail his wife in exchange.
[deleted] 9y ago
I'm not even gonna argue with you but if you really think only celebrities or other off-the-scale SMV dudes can maintain harems, you are amazingly wrong. I've seen average-looking dudes pull them only because they were alpha as fuck. I do it and I'm not special. It's all frame.
[deleted] 9y ago
And male models are all gay, right?
[deleted] 9y ago
Not all of them, but I'd say most of them. Seriously, those guys start drinking and they act like teenage girls. Maybe it's just cuz they're around superhot dudes all the time?
mryddlin 9y ago
Primary is 38, we have a kid and ltr goals. Those as based in her actually contributing (note: we do not live full time together, I have an apt across from her).
1st Secondary is 26 and is a mutual partner with my primary. Going on 3+ years
2nd partner is 24, she's in school and our relationship is low key, mostly mentor type dynamic. Thats going on 2+ years now and is just mine.
Stack of active play partners, ranging from 18-55, basically plates in TRP terns but negotiated up front what the dynamic will be (ie just sex).
They also have other partners, I'm friends with some of them and with others I'm not but we all generally get along.
If you haven't caught on I'm kink/fetish orientated and alt lifestyle is nothing new to me. There is a lot of over lap between TRP, kink and poly.
That is to say those two choices lead me to the TRP observations on my own. Fetish community that alphas have never left but there has been a flood of betas acting like alphas (thanks twilight and 50 shades....such crap).
redpillbanana 9y ago
Great post and I definitely identify with many of the points you bring up, espeically lack of spare time, awkward moments, and those frickin' holidays. Most holidays I could say that I was working or flying to visit distant family, but Valentine’s day is the worst. I basically have to make a flimsy work excuse and end up getting suspicious stares all around (except from the woman I’m actually meeting on Valentine’s day). Luckily I haven’t run into any extinction-level events but it is definitely something that becomes more likely as time goes on.
Laundry actually becomes a big problem because your apartment or home basically becomes like a hotel with many guests coming and going. It’s important to have an ample supply of towels/sheets and extra shirts/pants for them to wear as well as toiletries, etc. You’ll curse her beautiful long shiny <insert color here> hair as you find it spread all over your apartment. If you have cleaning staff, it helps a lot, and for goodness sake don’t fuck the cleaning staff too because it is impossible to hide anything from them.
“Peak Experiences” can be an advantage and a disadvantage. The problem with having many women in rotation is the “when it rains, it pours” problem. Ideally you’d be able to space them out evenly over the week, but invariably there will be times when they are all unavailble and there will be other times when they're all available, so you’ll end up with peaks and valleys. Believe me, after the peaks, the valleys are a welcome rest. There will be times when you end up seeing 5-6 different women in the space of two days, and you'll need food, drugs, and an ample supply of condoms to make it through. Being “fucked out” may sound like a first world problem, but after going on a sex bender, it feels really good to just chill and let your sore body parts rest.
From a previous reply:
There was a time in my life where I didn't have to work or study much, and at the same time, I was getting tons of female attention. I had women calling me to come over and didn't have to make any effort at all. There were days where I would bed three different women on the same day (when I could pull off the scheduling). Certain body parts were feeling pretty raw from all the activity. Masturbation was a distant memory. I was constantly running out of condoms, and at one point, I was actually starting to think that I was having too much sex.
At this point in my life, I admit that I didn't have much motivation to do anything. All I did was sleep, eat well, hit the gym, chase women, and get laid. Despite coming from a fairly academic/intellectual background, I really loved living the life of a total meathead. My primitive animalistic desires were being fulfilled completely and I felt like a king.
savedarticles 9y ago
Oh man fantastic post. Your house becoming like a hotel and getting 'fucked out' is soo true.
Even 2 plates with back to back sex fests ends with me in the fetal position for an entire day trying to recover. I couldn't even imagine 3-5.
Great post. Cracked me up!
[deleted] 9y ago
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savedarticles 9y ago
haha! Never tried Brawndo. I'll definitely do those exercises. My back, hips, legs, and calfs burn like hell for a few days after. I have an Esse so thats like a thousand sumo squats if you straddle it. LPT: Buy an Esse. Thanks for the tips man. Will do!
belizebreeze 9y ago
If you don't mind me asking, what is your background?
I ask because I'm more than a little skeptical when it comes to an "average joe"--i.e. theoretically someone average on all fronts...looks, earning power, status, personality, demeanor, wealth, etc...able to "spin plates" as the result of somehow being a "pussy magnet"...let alone retain moral integrity, sanity, and sense of identity while doing so (a separate issue).
As another buried commenter commented, it would seem that in order to do what you, the OP, and a number of other redditors on this thread/ sub claim to have done, moreover to be a "pussy magnet," you must have some outstanding facet that is sexually irresistible to women...e.g. "a male model, a dubai sheikh, famous, or a milionaire"...i.e. either have the looks, the intelligence, the power/ influence, the money, and ultimately the status--facets that make you a distinctive, less outstanding candidate as a reproductive mate.
Normal guys simply aren't outstanding in any such way--that is to say that they are average, and do not come from or live privileged lifestyles where they get a headstart or leg-up in social value and the opportunities it makes available, which I'm sure enables certain perspectives and mentalities.
redpillbanana 9y ago
/u/MentORPHEUS gave a great answer and there’s not much I can add there.
I won’t give too many details about my background, but I will say the following:
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
Skepticism justified; as a BP young man I would never have believed that I would have such a life story.
First of all, my SMV as a man rises with age, long after women hit the wall and their SMV is off-peak; I COULDN'T have pulled this off as described in my 20s.
Second, you have to manage your expectations. Multiple girlfriends at once is another form of TRP hard mode; you are power playing in the basic trade of sex for commitment. Unless you actually ARE a rockstar, sheik, or otherwise upper 1% SMV, you are NOT going to find your top picks effortlessly rotating through your bed. You're taking advantage of arbitrage in the sexual marketplace, so some compromises are part of this game. High SMV women are far more costly to plate, but with extra effort and shrewd negotiating, you can build a harem that doesn't look like Deuce Bigelow rejects.
My strategy is to choose a public main with more weight on factors like looks, commonality/good match on paper, etc. With side plates I personally place a premium on sexual chemistry, compatibility and performance. Differences in factors like appearance, class, race, age are far more negotiable to me in a strictly sex-centric relationship; not only are these factors useful in negotiating long term no strings sex, stretching these factors far beyond the bounds of an "acceptable" public LTR adds an exotic value factor to our enjoyment of the sex. Vive le difference!
Not every man is willing to widen his standards and possibilities, but whatever your own SMV station, the effort to get and keep a part-time sex partner goes up logarithmically with her SMV. Looking back, I may regret time spent chasing higher-SMV women in vain but fondly recall the time spent enjoying happier, easier lower SMV women. Not every man is willing to compromise far in this direction, especially from a place of abundance. However, I challenge every man to fully consider the different powers and pleasures that can come from trading both up and down the SMV scale, before you become so old that you struggle to land lower and lower SMV partners yourself and lament anew the ruthlessness of the sexual marketplace. Reach for the fruit at the top of the tree always, but don't neglect the power structure possible in cases where you are easily at the top of HER tree.
This might read as though I've had 20 constant sex partners the whole time; to be clear, these were spread out a few at a time over 20 years, with dry spells, slumps, and voluntary MGTOW periods along the way. I entered my 30s with a notch count below 5 and terrible blue pill game. My natural SMV is good- tall, athletic, blond, blue, started a business in my early 30s. Once I tossed my ineffective upbringing and blue pill mindset, it was game on!
TomilloDanup 9y ago
Are you by any chance an engineer or work on a STEM field?? If so what do you do?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
Thanks, it's appreciated coming from an obvious fellow traveler.
Valentine's day is the true test of a polyamorist's mettle. If you can come through that with all of your relationships not just intact but each happy, you're a rock star. It's not that hard really; the main gets the full dinner; you might schedule a breakfast and lunch with others on Valentine's Day itself, or negotiate a slightly better celebration the day or weekend before or after Valentine's Day itself. A mistress or side girlfriend level relationship usually assumes a formal celebration but on an off-day, and many reliable long-term part timers have mains or premium suitors they're busy with on the day anyway, so the problem often largely does most of its own pre-sorting for you. Plates you can use a simple formula of "Slightly more than I normally do for her." If not being there for dinner is looking serious for an important second, try for a split flowers to her work for X10 boyfriend points + dinner another night for the save.
Heh... one good squirter will accomplish that too with no complaints. A good selection of sheets and towels is necessary- don't let her see all of them and start thinking though. Also, T-shirts you've worn are better than the promotionals businesses give out; she'll ball that thing up and smell your scent till it fades, keeping you in her reptilian brain; keep these well stocked as expendables.
Unless you're seeing all plates, it's impossible to have anyone besides your main at your house. Along with the hair, women tend to deliberately or accidentally leave easter eggs like hair scrunchees, a random dainty sock, or clothing accents like a sequin or flake of glitter. Plus, women can mentally catalog the contents and layout of a space and your patterns of moving things and tell when someone else has been there better than in a CSI season finale, and then there's your nosy neighbors. It's playing with fire to have side women over to your place, and I got burned early on this way. Main only at the house, everyone else host, and you prevent a LOT of problems.
Tell me about it; like Milankovitch cycles of sex, orbits of different periods sometimes align, prospects you've been running long game on become ready abruptly, your main is better than ever, all at the same time. If you can't respond to offers quickly enough, they will downgrade or drop you. Sometimes you can soldier through a short burst, sometimes it forces a Darwinian culling and improvement of your sex pool.
RedditArgument 9y ago
Do you have any recommendations for where the side girl is unable to host? In the city I live (Tokyo) many many girls live with their parents for quite a while making my place effectively the only place.
redpillbanana 9y ago
Japan is the birthplace of the love hotel, so that’s what I’d recommend in your case.
RedditArgument 9y ago
Too bad they're so damn expensive. $60-80 a 'session' adds up
MrHoman 9y ago
You deserve a point just for the Heinlein reference
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mryddlin 9y ago
Agreed, also Heinlein is the reason I'm poly.
the OP describe polyarmoury basically and that was common in his books (s-marriage in Friday for example).
MrHoman 9y ago
I got given a box with almost every one of his novels when I was around 13 by my crazy Aunt and have always valued the paradigms he offered. I blame this for me becoming the anti-theistic and womanizing little bastard I am.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
Yes, Heinlein influenced me from this age as well, and it's no coincidence he found his way into my post. I'm surprised my conservative parents left that around the house. His poly ideas still sound radical, even though they fit the burgeoning Free Love zeitgeist of the early hippie era when they were written. However, his pedo-y ideas make recommending his works a bit of a land mine for me today. Enjoy Heinlein's works, but eclectically.
SpaceCrunch 9y ago
LL definitely screwed his mom in To Sail Beyond the Sunset. It was rad.
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mryddlin 9y ago
Blame or THANK ;)
I thank the man, my dad gave me starship troopers when I was 12-13 and he was a major reason the bill pill never went fully down my throat.
Gonna drink a cocktail in his honor honor tonight.
MattyAnon Admin 9y ago
This is really great and is like I used to do things... and will again! Thanks for the inspiration :)
redpillerinnyc 9y ago
This is the most similar to my situation as I've found on this board. Except any women I upgrade to even a side girlfriend status is always pushing for a ring to get a piece of my inheritance so I tend to cut them off more quickly than not.
I assume you expect the main girlfriend to be totally faithful to you, as she has the privilege to be the main squeeze plus you put in the effort to mask your other women to her?
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 9y ago
I would expect the main to keep anything of hers 100% discreet and private from me just the same as I would for her; the relationship presupposes an external facade of exclusivity. The facade stands internally by default as well, though if a former side girlfriend upgrades to main, the terms are usually discussed, negotiated, and settled at the time of the upgrade, with a tacit unspoken agreement moving forward from there. If you're having recurring arguments over the subject, you're doing it wrong.
For those with problems attracting gold diggers, have an "average guy" persona, and improve your SMV enough to get fuck buddies from among women unaware of your full wealth.
abdada 9y ago
"Relationship Tracks" is spot on. 41/M here, dating since early teens, always spinning plates but more LTR. Never had a ONS because never found a reason to.
No point in dumping women if they're classy. Relationships prosper if you give them freedom but they don't abuse it.
AWALT is true: be your own leader and not only do dames flock to you but they compare other guys to you.
It is easy to get gyny, it's success when that comes with cooking and cleaning and full time retarded mode from your women. When they aren't retards, back off, let them miss you, focus on other things and other women who are retarded. She will be back and if she hasn't gained weight, who cares?
Marriage kills it (female retarded mode) usually.
Having options? Makes it explode in the good way.
bustanutmeow 9y ago
Could you elaborate please. I'm not sure I understood that and the following part.
Thanks
sendrake 9y ago
Pretty sure he means that state are in when they're completely "in love" with you and they can't think about you in a rational way.
bustanutmeow 9y ago
Cheers, Makes a lot more sense now.
TheRedPilsner 9y ago
Good post. I doubt that I'll ever get married and I'm currently trying to establish my own "soft harem", so advice like this is much appreciated.
Lazlo-Red 9y ago
Excellent post - and I have found the TIME issue to be true. I did something similar for several years, after my last divorce, and it was hard to keep up the spinning plates while my hobbies suffered. One of my favorite moments was when plate number one yelled from the bathroom "Say thanks to whoever left the tampons in the guest bathroom!" To TRP credit we did not stop seeing each other for awhile and still are friends.