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- Hide Preview | 38 Comments | submitted 11 months ago by KeffirLime [Post Locked]

Considering it appears to be a goal for most, the topic of LTR's doesn't come up nearly enough. A quick trip over to askTRP and it's pretty clear that this is where most men struggle and end up suffering the most.

I've been asked on too many separate occasions,

What is the best way to go about getting a good LTR?

My answer is always the same: You don't.

The red pill toolbox is least effective being used for Blue Pill goals. The desire to fill the role is what leads to sub standard relationships.

An LTR is a byproduct, an organic progression. You can only be open to the prospect of it, but to seek it is counter-productive. Some foundations should be in place first.

First and foremost is shifting the focus from our future unicorn to ourselves. To piece together a life that doesn't require the presence of a partner. One that we are happy and satisfied with regardless of her involvement. Sidebar should assist with this.

Next is to build a storage of experience. If you don't know your way around female behavior you should not even be considering being in a committed relationship. She'll chew you up and spit you out. She is not your savior. She is not the answer to your problems. If you are to derive any value and satisfaction out of your relationship you best understand and be capable of managing your women.

If you tick the first two box's then you can start thinking about selection. By selection I don't mean go out and search for her, I mean the ability to recognize a potentially LTR worthy women. They are out there, but rare. Looking for them is a pointless exercise. You have no way of knowing if a woman you meet is LTR worthy. For this reason, due process should by administered accordingly, on all your women.

How does due process work? How do you know if she's LTR worthy? How do you know when it's time to LTR?

Well, Let's say you're at the beach with a boat, it only fits two people. You're happy just mingling with all the desirable women on the beach, but you're open to taking a journey out into the ocean with only one. Your journey would start out in shallow waters and progressively get deeper. The closer to the shore you are the quicker it is to get back and pick up other women and the less invested you are in the journey.

There's a couple things that need to be clarified about this journey. You dictate where it goes. They are welcome to be a part of it, but must understand that you're the Captain. If at any point they jeopardize or no longer add value to that journey, then they'll cease to be apart of it. No exceptions, none of them are special, despite what they tell you.

Next, is that it's her job to pursue the journey. If she isn't asking about it at any point then either she's the Captain and you're the first mate, or she's getting everything she needs from you as is. It indicates that she doesn't really want to go on a journey with you. Don't take that as an invitation for you to be Mr. Initiative and whisk her deep into the Ocean. A journey you are not in control of is not a journey that serves you

One fine day you'll have your ankles in the water and you'll be ready start your journey. You'll meet a women, go on a couple dates, maybe even fuck her. It's early days, you'll still be getting a feel for each other.

She asks: Are we there Yet? No.

She's on the shore but wants a deep sea package. She's either desperate or delusional, and neither is good. She is mostly interested in her own comfort and doesn't really care what value she can add to your journey. These are most likely post wall women looking to latch on to the first provider who will have them. Do not go past ankle depth water.

If however, the first few interactions do go well and you're satisfied, then she is permitted to drift out into the shallows with you. You can take this trip with multiple women. It's short, calm, easy to cut ties and get back to the beach if you're not happy with any of them.

This may entail, casual dating, fucking and occasionally going out together. Simple, light hearted interactions. She gets no special treatment and you are indifferent to her presence. She is easily replaceable and has no emotional leverage.

They ALL start out this way, rushing to depths is dangerous.

Over time she may start showing positive signals. She may be really fun to be around. She may fuck like a beast. She may even be great conversation. This doesn't mean you've found a diamond. It simply means you're finding the shallows to be enjoyable.

She now asks: Are we there yet? Nope.

There's still no depth, you can't possibly know whether she is fit for a long-term journey. This is a more common point for a commitment request. It's understandable, but not effective. She's looking to cash in on her brief investment. However, spreading her legs a couple times doesn't quite qualify her for the position, that's simply entitlement. She needs to show you what a great candidate she is.

If she remains sweet, sexual and submissive over the next couple months, and you're having a ball, you may be willing to venture past the shallows, into deeper waters. Still in the vicinity of the shoreline and close to other women but she'll certainly be the closest to you. Nothing that can't be quickly reversed. There should still be other women on your radar.

This depth is a little more personal than before. You may start doing more activities together, going on weekends away and spending more time together in general. She may even get to meet one or two of your friends and vice versa. This is where you're paying slightly more attention to the value she's adding to your life because she's more involved in your life.

This could either prove to be more enjoyable, or more strenuous than before. If the latter, simply head back to the shallows, to which she is better suited. If it's the former and you're still liking what she brings to the table then, well, now she is showing promising.

She again asks: Are we there yet? Still No.

It's been good up until now, but you can't say with certainty that this is someone you wan't to go on a deep sea journey with. She hasn't had a trial in the deep. Depth is treating her how you would an LTR. This entails management. Her response to this will tell you all you need to know.

Inevitably, the deeper you go, the more invested in her you become. She get's more and more of your time and energy. It becomes necessary that you manage that investment. It's not such a short trip back to the shallows anymore. Puppy, employee or first mate, the better they are trained, the better they serve your journey.

She need's to be adding value to your life. You still need to be enjoying her company, sex and adventures together. The deeper you go, the more of her character will be revealed. It's for you to decide if you're liking it or not. The best candidates to support a long journey are submissive, nurturing, sweet, sexual and mentally stable. Pay attention to red flags.

If she is faltering, back to the shallows. Taking a rescue step to deep ocean will only put you both in danger. If she's flourishing, well, then your time together is proving favorable. It needs to remain positive over the course of a few months.

Finally, she asks: Are we there yet? Well, now it's up to you.

By now, you have all the necessary information to make an informed decision.

Various levels of depth will bring varying levels of fulfillment to different people. Some may enjoy their escapades on the beach, some may venture no further than the shallows. For others, after a while, the shoreline may lose it's appeal. The allure of the deep may be far more enticing. It's for each person to find out for themselves what brings them the greatest satisfaction.

Experienced sea men will always navigate the seas better, which is why due process is required. Heading into deeper waters with just one woman is a risky undertaking, one you need to be adequately prepared for. It's far easier mingling on the safety of the shore. How well you as the man Captain that journey, will determine how smooth it goes.

At some point one or both of you may tire and want to get back on the beach. That is a natural process of life. The truth about the journey is that you'll never really arrive somewhere and shout "Hey, we made it!". The journey simply has a direction you dictate, and it is ongoing. Explore the seas, revel in the adventure, make it as fulfilling as possible for yourself and have the awareness to know when the journey has run it's course.

[-] NightwingTRP 3 Points 11 months ago

As a general rule, guys should be spinning plates for at least 12 months before they're even considering LTR reading. The number of absolute imbeciles we see on AskTRP who have LTR'd up the first plate they've ever got within a couple of weeks of fucking them is beyond absurd.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] destraht 1 Point 11 months ago

This post is great! Its just great. Perhaps with some additional work it could be made into an all-timer level of quality. Maybe its already there but I just want to encourage you to keep poking at it.

[-] quadraticreciprocal 0 Points 11 months ago

Honestly, just do hybrid PUA-MGTOW-redpill shit. Giving up your freedom for an ltr is too high a price to pay.

[-] Finallyawake_ 8 Points 11 months ago

Aye aye, shipwrecking at deep sea when first mate starts a mutiny can possibly end/ruin your life. Many captains have had to drift a long time and had to rebuild their ship from scratch.

Creative way to think LTRs, thanks for sharing it!

[-] TheRedPillMonkey 2 Points 11 months ago

Abundance mentality and vetting - the two most crucial things with getting into a LTR. If you're going and looking for one, you'll inherently have a lack of these two things.

Solid post!

[-] vandaalen 10 Points 11 months ago

Related shameless self-promotion:

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] Fulp_Piction 1 Point 11 months ago

Can attest to the shitstorm you could end up in if you don't pay attention to red flags and get too deep too fast. It's never gonna be a bad idea to take your time getting into a relationship, if thats where you want to go.

Bear in mind what an LTR is though - you're limiting your options, you're getting into a contract with a woman for exchange of sex and your time for the foreseeable future - see Briffaults law for why this is a bad idea. You're entering her frame, and to some degree relinquishing your own. I wonder why every modern woman over 23 I know is either in an LTR or wants to be?

[-] Onidramon 1 Point 11 months ago

Start an LTR when you feel like life is going a bit too smoothly and you could use a reminder that existence is suffering. End it when you've had your fill of cuckolding for the year.

[-] freew33zy 1 Point 11 months ago

This is a good post. I would add that, additionally, making girls work their way up through commitment has the added bonus that it then forces the relationship to be in your frame. You are the one giving, and she is looking to receive from you (commitment). She will receive what she wants from you only on your terms (in your frame). From here you may set the boundaries that you see as necessary and vet out and in the girls that are and are not compatible. Completely your frame and your world, and she's just living in it. Good stuff, especially for those who haven't read the sidebar because this is probably covered there in different terms. But good analogy.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] warlordchad 15 Points 11 months ago

It is of critical importance that you remain captain of the ship.

Feminists and BP's and apparently the reddit administration no doubt see this as a form of misogyny, but it's actually to the benefit of both man and woman, based on our instincts and evolutionary nature.

Because at some point, if she takes control and you become first mate, her desire for you will cool. This is why so many marriages fail in our society: we tell men to be the white knight servant of the woman--and to a point she's happy to do that, indulging her nesting instincts, having children, etc.

But at some point she realizes: this man isn't a leader. He has no larger ambition. He has no primal drive. And then she falls out of love with him. In point of fact, this happened to me, and it is currently happening to several of my friends.

Why? Ask yourself this: what would have happened to such a man during the hundreds of thousands of years we evolved living in tribes--a man who became subservient to one woman and her children?

Answer: he would lose his status and/or risk the tribe's survival. Nah man, I don't want to hunt today--the wife and I are having a picnic. No, I don't want to attack the tribe who's marched into our territory--I'm sure they won't bother us or use our resources. Think of how the woman is going to react under those circumstances...

"Dude, why aren't you protecting us? Why aren't you providing? Why don't other women find you desirable?"

Obviously, those dangers don't exist in today's society--but at our core we're still cued in to behaviors that ensured our survival... which is why, even if husband and wife do manage to stay together, they never, or only rarely, have sex--or one or both cheat. Because there's no desire.

It's true for us too. A woman can hypothetically be loyal to a man for 30 years of marriage if he remains the captain, but what--at his core--is he more physically attracted to? This wife, at 55, or the smoking hot 28 year old he sees a the coffee shop everyday? We all know the answer. Sure he can appreciate the wife's loyalty and companionship, etc., but the younger woman is the better biological investment.

The same people who correctly point out that climate change is real based on scientific evidence, data, and theory want to turn around and suggest our evolutionary biology has nothing to do with how we interact in relationships.

It's bullshit and causes more misery than we know. I would hazard a guess that this singular dynamic of the man abandoning his role as captain is responsible for more divorce than almost any other factor in marital relations.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] redpillschool 44 Points 11 months ago

From Rollo's "Of Love and War:"

We want to relax. We want to be open and honest. We want to have a safe haven in which struggle has no place, where we gain strength and rest instead of having it pulled from us. We want to stop being on guard all the time, and have a chance to simply be with someone who can understand our basic humanity without begrudging it. To stop fighting, to stop playing the game, just for a while.

We want to, so badly.

If we do, we soon are no longer able to.

From "Man affections vs boy affections:"

there are only two types of man-love our brain is wired for.

one, the love you got, wanted to get, hoped for, maybe experienced – from you mother, as a child. that’s a key kind of emotional connection to the female. and, as much as that sounds fucked up, it’s the type of connection most men are trying to find again in their adult life – from a girlfriend / wife.

seriously consider this. look at the few bullet points above. what kind of ‘love’ is that? let’s not judge it, just look at it objectively. that’s how most men view love. they don’t think about it consciously, but that’s the love they got to experience as a child.

here’s some news: no girl will ever love you like your mom did.

before we get a bit more into that, let’s look at the other type of man-love our brain has wiring for:

the love a father has for his daughter.

again, we have to remove all the incestous, sexualized, weird bits of it, and just look at the emotional components that drive the type of interaction, expectation, dependence, and outcome. how does a father love his daughter?

[-] destraht 2 Points 11 months ago

You are the worst of the worst top post hijackers.

[-] markinsinz7 3 Points 11 months ago

He's the head of the sub he can hijack ur ass if he wanted lolzzz

[-] destraht 2 Points 11 months ago

Agreed! I just haven't been very involved and I have a buzz going and I want to have fun. Shit is kind of ridiculous now and like to go to lampooning this whole mess. If I thought this place sucked or that the lead sucked I wouldn't post here :).

[-] [deleted] 1 Point 11 months ago

Where does Father-Son love come into this - as I feel this is a super strong feeling?

[-] TheStoicCrane 1 Point 10 months ago

Father-Son dictates whether you as the Son fall naturally into the AF or BB territory. The better the Father the more AF behaviors and principles will be instilled in the Son. The worst the Father the more BB the Son will be. By and large modern society's Fathers have failed their Sons. If they didn't TRP wouldn't need to exist in the first place.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] Thunderbird93 16 Points 11 months ago

Its a question of love vs lust. Love your goals, lust after women. Lust is simply an ephemeral animalistic urge, once you get your nut she no longer has any utility to you. I love money, its what I am devoted to. Thats a monumental difference

[-] destraht 0 Points 11 months ago

Since you said that, know what money is? For example: money vs currency. Federal Reserve notes vs Gold vs Nationally run fiat currency. Do you know what the game is? If so, enjoy. Fucking nifty!

[-] TheStoicCrane 1 Point 10 months ago

It's fiat currency but unfortunately it's a necessity. If people chose to mqke it a centerpiece of their existence so be it. Define your own values and let others select theirs for better or worst.

[-] Thunderbird93 2 Points 11 months ago

Money serves three purposes, unit of account, medium of exchange and store of value. Gold is a valuable commodity historically used as a peg for currencies due to scarcity but now currencies are free floating although arguably there are dynamics such as the petrodollar at play thanks to Nixon. Fractional reserve banking expands the money supply as the monetarists such as Friedman theorized, the Federal Reserve subsequently calibrates the repo rate to control inflation, deflation and stagflation through lending to commercial banks. Check out the book Modern Money Mechanics, haven't read it myself yet but it explains central banking. On the gold standard, I'd say technology is the main factor not attributed for. Take Okuns law,if is there truly is an inverse relationship between unemployment and GDP? If the future of mankind is automation then labor will be replaced by more efficient capital and subsequently higher GDP despite higher unemployment, Bill Gates advocates for a technology tax. As it applies to gold, imagine asteroid mining? What would asteroid mining do to the value of gold assuming we had the technology? That concept of scarcity would be thrown out the window.

[-] Tmanpoker 6 Points 11 months ago

Being a recently reformed blue pill guy myself this was incredibly helpful, thank you.

Rushing into an LTR has been an issue my whole life, as I was looking for my happiness in a girl. But upon swallowing the pill I understand the importance of vetting, and how only once you adopt the abundance mentality and stop putting them on a pedestal, can you improve your SMV.

[-] _be_happy_ 13 Points 11 months ago

Great post, thank you for posting. I had thoughts about promoting my plate to LTR recently, but this gave me better insight why I should not :).

LTR management can be summed up to "you are the prize", so you should understand that it's always up to you.

Women choose who with and when to have sex (so TRP optimises for high SMV so they want to fuck you, and abundance so there will be at least few: one is unavailable, next plate please).

Men choose who with and when to have relationship and how deep. That's why all the girls fucks around all the time, but shame others for being easy/sluts/whores. They want men to think that monogamy makes you the best men in the world and you should stick to your gal blablabla.

[-] [deleted] 11 months ago
[-] [deleted] 52 Points 11 months ago

I like the boat analogy you used.

Solid post that shows how LTR should be done. Nowadays most chumps seek a mother figure in LTRs. A girl that strokes their hair, that likes to hear about their insecurities, that go through thick and thin with them. Relationships with this power dynamic are ruined from the start.

[-] oberstmarzipan 1 Point 10 months ago

Wait, I hope its okay to get your hair stroked without talking about insecurities, because I really like my head and back scritches.

[-] awakenedspirit1 3 Points 11 months ago

This information would've been so helpful. IMO, this is the Crux of blue pill thinking. An ocean of love and support.

[-] DareyFathom 28 Points 11 months ago

It's a pretty simple standard for LTRs; do you want children or not? If yes, then they need to be raised in a stable two parent household so pursuing LTRs is a necessity. If no, then the cost of an LTR is likely excessive.

[-] HumanSockPuppet 20 Points 11 months ago

You don't get to have children. She gets to have children, and you get visitation rights as long as you remain in her good graces. Except in the case of extreme abuse, courts always side with the mother.

LTRs have numerous benefits outside of offspring for the man who understands how to control his bitches. Read my Guides to Training and Managing Bitches for more on this.

[-] Warped_Mindless 6 Points 11 months ago


All these guys on here talking down on LTRs all the time have their head in the sand. LTRs have pros and cons but can be done right if the man knows how. Your guides are a great start.

[-] rosbergsessa420 6 Points 11 months ago

I don't agree completely.

Under the right circumstances a LTR could be beneficial. The thing is that most BPers see a LTR as something that is supposed to last forever. They see it with the light of having won a battle where the price is that they get to keep the girl and lock her in, and never worry again about getting sex (having to do the work) - but that's purely idealistic, fed by disney love stories, it never happens in practice. The only couples that really work long term are the beta guy + ugly woman combo, because they know they don't have access to anything else. Otherwise monogamy is nothing but a myth.

The ways in which LTRs can be good is the constant self improvement & rising SMV, getting to exist within her female friends group and gaming with them as well, but as soon as you enter one, you haven't won shit. You rather have to start doing the work. Keeping a woman interested is a challenge and it's not even worth it when you could focus your energy on having a wide availability of options - which women achieve naturally but we don't.

A man with options doesn't need a LTR. It's a losing battle.

[-] KeffirLime 13 Points 11 months ago

As I said in the post, depends on the individual.

As someone who plated for many years and shifted to an LTR, I can say I find great satisfaction with both. Each one served me differently at different phases of my life. Should never be a goal, but rather a natural progression.

Keeping a woman interested is a challenge and it's not even worth it when you could focus your energy on having a wide availability of options - which women achieve naturally but we don't.

This is a mindset built to please her. When you have your shit in order LTR's really arent that much work. If she leaves, she leaves, but if she's got a high value man who she know's is a catch and naturally has options her branch swinging tendencies are greatly reduced.

Partly why I stated in the post if you're low value or inexperienced you shouldn't even be considering an LTR.

[-] rosbergsessa420 8 Points 11 months ago

Hits home. I got in a LTR without experience in dealing with anything beyond a night stand, all red flags were up without me noticing. The good thing is that I got redpilled thanks to that LTR.

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