"DoN't bE viCtIiM oF thE sYsteM. DoN'T bE a shEEP, a seRvAnT, foR thE reST oF yoUR lifE. Do you really want to live your life working a job you hate, for a boss you despise, not being able to do what you want, trudging through life miserably until the age of retirement, when you're left with barely enough money to scrap by counting pennies until you die and leave your last life savings of twenty bucks for your seven kids? Don't work for an employer. Start your own business. Get rich quick. Live happily ever after."
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Blah blah blah. Bullshit. All bullshit.
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UpperRedSide here, hitting you gents with some career advice.
When I was fresh out of high school at age 15 (booksmart motherfucker, top of my class), I thought, "This is heckin swell. I'm gonna start my own business now and get rich as a Rockefeller."
But you see, it doesn't work like that. Being smart doesn't guarantee you're a brilliant entrepreneur. You need money for that shit. You need connections. You need time. You need experience. And most of all, you need failure. Lots of it. Not everyone is cut out to start and run their own business.
It doesn't help that the "influencer" age of the internet is also pushing this "laptop lifestyle" shit, which only works if you're a blackhat who knows how to manipulate people by playing on their insecurities and scamming them into buying useless stuff from you. If that's you, then hey, keep screwing people over you Machiavellian mastermind you.
But now lets talk about the despised "rat race." Go to college. Get a job. Retire. Die. Boohoo.
But what if you went to college and studied in a booming field (automotive) got some skills (ASE certification) that made you highly sought after by multiple companies, got a high paying job before your freshman year was even over (automotive service advisor), racked in some experience points doing what you love (getting all grimy with tools, troubleshooting shit, and talking about engines all day), and then moved on to an even higher paying job due to that experience (upwards of $80K a year) while having evenings and weekends off to pursue hobbies (some of which bring in additional cash), and spend time with family and friends?
That's my story. I love my job. I love my boss and my coworkers. I have time to lift, eat well, travel, and fuck. I'm no millionaire but you'd be surprised how comfortably an individual can live on six figures. My ego isn't so big that the idea of working for a company somehow makes me feel like a little bitch. And yes, down the line, I do intend to be self-employed. I've written two business plans based on some hobbies of mine that rack in considerable amounts of passive income and will continue to increase in profitability, alongside my very rewarding career in automotive.
I like being a company asset. I like being on my feet, getting my hands dirty, solving problems for people. And I didn't have to spend ten years of my life studying. Oh no, I went to a community college son. Tuition cost me $8,000. I got a job within months of my enrollment.
If you went to college and couldn't land a job shortly after, you probably majored in creative writing or gender studies.
The simplest formula I can give you is this: learn an in demand skill + get experience + acquire mastery = get paid the big bucks. And if you absolutely have to be self-employed or if you're convinced you're cut out for it: work a high paying job + invest in a business + leave high paying job once business income has exceeded job income = entrepreneur.
Here's, my point. This is America. You do not have to be self-employed to have a lucrative career and live a rewarding life. Most experienced construction workers make the same amount as your typical "influencer" does.
Everybody complains about working "9-5s" and being a part of the "rat race," looking down on the blue collar workers, the laborers, the people that built this country from the ground up. They crave shine and glamour and celebrity. Stop it. Cut that shit out. Clearly your parents didn't give you much love as a child. Neither did mine. Boohoo. Cry me a fucking river.
Stop your whining. Grow the fuck up, roll up your sleeves, get working, and make some bank.
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Good luck gents. Stay Red.
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MrCongeniality1 5y ago
I'm not wading into the sociological debate, but this sub is about sexual strategy and understanding female motivations.
To that end, I have to say this: Having a boss makes you less attractive***.***
It doesn't make you unattractive, and it's not going to kill your game. But understand that in a woman's mind, seeing you have to jump at another person's call is going to diminish attraction.
We all know that in business transactions, you are always trying to please someone to some extent (either a boss or a client). However, in a woman's impressionistic view of the world, seeing you in a boss-subordinate relationship is a mark against you.
The preferable circumstance is to be in high demand, so that 1) your boss treats you well, or better 2) you are a business owner that doesn't need the business so bad that you have to cater to disrespectful clients.
Knowing is half the battle.
AncientTough 5y ago
It's mainly a stab/critique at the Capitalist system.
There are some alternatives, like co-op workers. Where each individual that works there has one vote and they get to decide what happens to the profits, regardless of whether you're founder or janitor.
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Trphello 5y ago
I'm 18, graduating high school this spring. If I can up my SAT score and keep up my GPA I'll get a free ride to community college for two years I'll most likely use that to complete their automotive program.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
Most people advices are only valid when a set of conditions are met. For life choice, they are valid only when you got the same life/env and have the same tastes.
So I did studies. Interrestingly, the annual cost was between 150-700€ a year. Yes where I live, the whole credit stuff related to studies is invalid.
Then actually I am a software developer and really enjoy it. It mean that I can get a high paying job basically almost everywhere in the world. Any big city really. Europe, US, Asia... I don't even have to change employee as they have premises everywhere in that world Miami, Boston, French Riviera, London, Bangkok, sydney...
I live comfortably, by the official statistics in the country, I get a salary in the top 10% of the population, it grow significantly and regularly and I am only 36, my own flat, likely be in the top 1% when I retire. I don't even really go for it. It goes with the job without much effort and not why I actually do it.
So I did everything that I shall not do from some people point of view for my career, yet I am very satisfied of it. And even by objectives measures like money, I do better that most anyway. So what ?
The thing is, do what work for you. Don't try to do what others want, but what YOU want. That's why we can't really judge other people choices. They don't have same priority, experience, life, goals or even capacities.
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JarHeadJoseph 5y ago
Good read. You don’t see a posts like this every day.
DarkSyde3000 5y ago
I use my 9 to 5 as a catalyst for other investments. It's a hell of a lot easier to get loans from a bank when they see you got a good job and can pay back the money they give you. Then you just parlay that money into something like real estate where someone else is paying off the monthly payments for you and then some giving you a profit every 30 days. The name of the game is multiple streams of income, passive if possible. Once you're making enough every month to quit your job, you can do that, or you can keep working because you enjoy it but know deep down you can walk at any moment and it won't matter. The real take away is not working until you're 65 or 70 like the government wants you to. You'll never be able to enjoy your life at that age when your body is beat to shit, you can't travel comfortably, you can't get around as easily anymore and falling down in the shower and snapping your hip become real world problems for you. Get it done early. Get out of the rat race when you're ready to do so and live the life you see yourself living. You only get to do this once, nothing else really matters and nobody has to live your life except you. I love working, but I know ultimately I should be directing the majority of my efforts to retiring myself and enjoy whats left over.
algae_rhythm 5y ago
Yeah, it's just about always working for yourself, including when you're working for somebody else.
The problem with lots of 9-5 shit is when you do more than 2 hours of commuting, maybe have a family, and you're just not very ambitious.
The answer isn't to avoid the drudgery, but instead to become ambitious. Unlock and wield your strength, no matter where you are.
And yes, the entrepreneurs need employees who are engaged. It's great to be a master of your craft, whether you have a boss or not. Get good at something.
Well that's an unexpected turn. Makes me distrust the rest of your post somehow, like you're over-reaching to demonstrate the hard-knock life that you heroically overcame. My inner editor says "Cut that shit. It's a distraction. You were so focused until that point."
UpperRedSide 5y ago
You know what, my inner writer agrees with you. I mean, I wrote it because I wanted to, but it adds nothing to the actual narrative.
Psychological_Radish 5y ago
In other words, the worker drones. The masses who made dazzling fortunes for owners of capital. The men who were told that if they conformed to the social order, then they would get a nice predictable life. Simple input-output, deductive logic.
Yeah, the world needs ditch diggers just as it needs Betas. Society couldn't function otherwise. But construction workers don't own their labor, just as Betas can't ever truly possess their wives. The worker's labor belongs to the capitalist; the Beta's woman belongs to the Alphas.
There are some jobs out there which afford some measure of real dignity and pride, but most are little more than repetition, degradation, and monotony - and thus deprive a man of his masculinity.
SalemBeats 5y ago
This post reads like you’re trying really hard to convince yourself that you enjoy your job. It exudes a “trying too hard” vibe, like you really wanted to live the “laptop lifestyle”, and after discovering you didn’t have the skills for it, you needed to convince yourself that it wasn’t all that great anyway. You reveal these sour grapes when you make unsubstantiated negative claims (your claim that “the only way you can make it is if you’re a black-hat selling something useless”).
You work with cars. OK. So what? It’s obviously not a bad gig. Do you truly believe it’s something so unique, though? Is this celebratory post helping you cope with the obvious major downsides, like the significantly increased risk of long term health problems caused by intimate exposure to petroleum products and other chemical carcinogens?
It’s easier to make a mid to upper-mid class income by being employed. Being an employee is more stable than being a freelancer or entrepreneur, and is more likely to result in greater income over the long run. We all know this. It’s a given.
Entrepreneurship is for those of us who are willing to take big risks and are well prepared for these gambits to fail.
The reason for doing something is never the same as the reason for talking about it. I’m sitting here wondering, “Is this dude writing all of this on the shitter at work, or what?”
UpperRedSide 5y ago
You've made far too many extrapolations, which, while they don't completely lack logical sense, weren't actually begging to be made. To put it literally, you're reading too far into things. Furthermore, you're doing it based on a preconceived notion. I don't mind, you're free to come to your own conclusions about my intentions, but I can guarantee you I actually do enjoy my job. I'm not lying to myself about that.
I never claimed that working with cars was unique. I don't give a damn about uniqueness, which is just a libtard snowflake term. And chemical carcinogens, when handled via the proper guidelines, are hardly a concern to me. Workplace regulations exist. It isn't like I'm going around drinking gallons of liquid asbestos or smoking diesel exhaust cigarettes.
SalemBeats 5y ago
I really don't give a shit either way, but in a skim of replies, it seems like nobody really kept you in check on the melodrama, and simply vibed on the monologue instead.
Some people do well in a 9-5, some people don't. Just do whatever brings you the most satisfaction. For you, it might be what you're currently doing (though I have my doubts). But for someone else, it might be something else.
The topic in the OP seems tangential to TRP principles at best, and at worst, it seems to suggest that you've gotta pay up to screw.
Autistic_Reeeeeeeeee 5y ago
Where I live the highest paying job around is TIG Welding. I can pay 1500 bucks and get paid $80 an hour down the road.
I still think business is the better way to go. I don't want to spend my life making someone else money.
Time is my most precious resource. Spending it in an office for the sake of money seems beta to me.
If your hell bent on money, Why cap your earnings at 100 - 300k a year by working for someone else? Start a business. Potentially uncapped earnings.
bringbricks 5y ago
The story actually applies to (almost) anywhere in the world, developed or developing economy.
You have a great point. We live in the age of idolised entrepreneurs, and that's pure BS. Most high level global executives I've met in my career were way too stressed out to love a quality life as you describe yours.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Yes. Not everyone is cut out to be an entrepreneur. Like I said, if you want to, be my guest. But being "employed" shouldn't be looked down on.
StandardDeparture 5y ago
People tend to dramatize the "rat race" into some soul sucking job that you drive 90 minutes each way in traffic to, sit in a too-small cubicle, get screamed at by your boss, put in 60 hour weeks for too-small a paycheck, deal with bullshit HR meetings, etc.
They also pretend that a lot of startups don't end up consuming your life, working 120 hours a week since you can't afford to pay anyone anything yet. You miss Friday nights at the bars because you're dealing with some customer service bullshit, or on the phone with someone about your server that just crashed, etc. They think it's all hanging on a beach in Brazil snorting coke off strippers titties and checking your email for an hour every Monday.
magx01 5y ago
Laptop lifestyle brah! Give me ten minutes of your time and I'll show you how you too can live like this. Right girls? (looks at bikini babes on either side of me)
pre-death 5y ago
The more responsibilities you have, the more you're paid.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
True, for the most part. Sometimes people, like some blackhats, can sit on their asses and still make money. That's not the kind of lifestyle I''m interested in though.
Luckyluke23 5y ago
there is a lot to like about this post.
but it really read "I was lucky enough to get a job out of my studies. "
I could literally be in the same boat as you but I haven't been able to get a job.
wiffofass 5y ago
I've never worked a day in my life. At 17 I had over 200k in my bank account from my gambling sites which later died down. Then I made several fitness apparel brands which I simply marketed with social media influencers. People have no idea how much their following or shoutouts are worth. In between I've made money with affiliate offers, even tried some blackhat shit but that never works in the long term.
The point is there are so many ways of making money online if you have half a brain. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done and that it can't be easy.
I love waking up whenever I want, looking at my shopify app in the morning and seeing purchases, doing whatever I want whenever I want and living life in my own way. It's amazing. There is nothing better than making money while you sleep. The beauty of these things is once you get them going you don't have to keep putting much time into them to maintain a steady income. If you want a successful business you obviously have to put everything into it though.
MinimalistLifestyle 5y ago
As someone who runs an affiliate marketing business and lives the “laptop lifestyle” I’d like to disagree that you need to be black hat or unethical. It’s like the used car dealership stereotype. Are there a lot of unethical used car dealers? Sure, but there’s lots of ethical ones too. Online marketing is the same. I understand the bad rep but it’s not an absolute statement.
RedHoodhandles 5y ago
If I would have read this a few years ago I would have said that this reads a lot like 'hey, this isn't so bad, I really like my cage'.
30 year old me now understands your point. I'm moving in the same direction now. And now I say this isn't so bad. It's not great either. It's... ok... I guess... Give me a few more years and maybe I say 'Hey this is great'. And I've totally forgotten that cage.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
It isn't a cage though. I can leave my job. I'm making money elsewhere. But I choose to stay because I like what I do. Aaaand, the job was necessary for me to build income elsewhere.
RedHoodhandles 5y ago
If you can chose your cage that doesn't make it any less a cage, does it? The way I see it, as long as you are making money for someone else you are never truly free. I'm not trying to be edgy or to argument against your point of view. That's just how I see things atm.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
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This isn't true, many business are dependent on products from other business. Therefore they are making them money, but also profiting themselves.
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MCA_T 5y ago
A good book on this is "the richest man in babylon"
victor_knight 5y ago
With the exception of the rape bit that I suppose you don't want to get into, excellent post. So good I'm linking to it from my sub.
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UpperRedSide 5y ago
Everyone thinks it's gonna be easy. As someone who has tried it, you need investment, major investment, to start a business. It isn't some easy get rich quick scheme.
genesh1121 5y ago
I am curious, what business did you try to start up?
punkrockfishboy 5y ago
The only justifiable 9-5 job is one you can quit comfortably without worrying about any finances. Being a minimalist helps you accomplish this. I got enough money to be unemployed for a few months at a time. Hell, depending on how much you make, you could just take a year off or two. Life is too short to put up with bullshit from bosses feeling like a peasant at feudalistic times. Enjoy life.
apost54 5y ago
Last sentence of the first paragraph is just slightly troubling
silver-in-a-cloud 5y ago
when im working from home..i usually clock in a solid 10-12h of real PC labor...when i have to go to work and perform 9-5 ..it's destructive to my mental health and i end up working about 3-4hours max of the same labor i would work at home at a triple pace...
many of us hate 9-5 because it's an archaic system..we live in a 24/7/365 globalized and technologically connected world ..i feel more of us should have the option nowadays to choose or maintain a more flexible schedule.
to explain my logic:
TIL that American employees at large-sized companies (1000 or more employees) only spend 45 percent of their time actually "working"—that is, time spent on primary job duties and not on meetings, administrative tasks, and interruptions.
????theatlantic.com/busine...
SynergisticSuccess 5y ago
I mean, the entire FIRE community would say otherwise to this post.
Personally, as long as every single one of us is looking for financial independence, who cares. You don’t need to retire early, but as long as you keep your paycheque tied to your hours worked, you’re going to have a bad time.
magx01 5y ago
Those guys all think they will finally "live" after the retire. Most of them will waste away in front of the TV, devoid of purpose and community.
Working part time until you die is a healthier option imo. Balance work and free time your whole life while keeping a purpose/focus/in touch with the community rather than work work work then nothing.
SynergisticSuccess 5y ago
“An entrepreneur is the only type of person willing to work 80 hours, trying to avoid working 40.” - Some guy.
I agree fully with your view on a lot of people hoping they will live once they retire.
However, the value that the sub brings us here, is from the financial independence aspect; Not so much the early retirement.
The biggest factor for me, was the attitude change when you don’t need your job. You change how you negotiate, you change your stature, you change as a person. It’s a worthy financial goal for anyone trying to take charge of their lives.
furiouszeno 5y ago
If thats what you think FIRE is about, you are sorely mistaken. Yeah there are a bunch of people that think like that, but who cares about them, they are boring people that just want to be boring.
FIRE for most people is not about retiring and "doing nothing". Its about having the financial stability to no longer need to consider financial incentives when deciding how to use your time. You can do what you want, when you want, how you want. And a lot of the time, FIREd people chose to work, but on their terms, be that self-employment, volunteer work, or taking a job that pays poorly but that they really enjoy.
magx01 5y ago
Those ones would be doing it right imo.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
It depends. If you're stupid enough to not have side gigs, passive income, investments in stocks and real estate, and savings, then yes, you are fucking screwed.
If all those boxes are indeed checked, you can lose your job and getting a new one would be both easy and optional.
SynergisticSuccess 5y ago
Right; The only problem is your formula you posted above doesn’t account for any of those factors.
For anyone interested in Financial Independence (Hint: Should be all of us), check out the related subs. While they won’t take kind to the usual red pill talk, it’s useful for learning about how to break the association of Time to Money, which is key for true freedom.
Want to still crank motors past your retirement dollar amount? Fly at it. But don’t let your job chain you into shit you don’t want. That’s the power of financial independence.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Sorry, what subs are you referring to?
SynergisticSuccess 5y ago
Unsure if I’m allowed to link it so, “financialindependence” and it’s associated subs.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
What have you found to be the best path to financial independence? In a nutshell.
SynergisticSuccess 5y ago
Always look for the next wage increase. I personally don’t care what I do for income, so I will pursue any opportunity that simply pays me more. As long as you leave on good terms, this doubles as expanding your network.
Keep your lifestyle as basic as possible, for as long as possible. Until you have got the ball rolling steadily in the right direction, you should be allocating any fun money into straight up investments. We constantly reference how men’s value goes up as we age. So make this short term sacrifice to set yourself up for the long term. It’s worth it.
Super simple rules. The sub can expand more on the various paths people use.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Ok thx. I am pretty set on finding a way to make an online income tho. Any knowledge on that? There are a lot of false alleys there. But also I believe some real potential. Distinguishing is difficult. Always lookin for input with online business.
genesh1121 5y ago
This isn't to bash you but to give you a different perspective in life.
While I agree somewhat with your post, it doesn't take millions of dollars to start a business nowadays. You can literally open an eCommerce drop shipping website for less than $10 for a domain and $45 yearly hosting. Do you know how many businesses in the world require less than $5000 to start up? I know 18 year olds that drive a fucking $15,000 car and complain that they don't have enough money to start a business. "It's all DONALD TRUMPS FAULT!!111!!!1!!!" People want to be mister big CEO and have six employees underneath them while being millions of dollars in debt, you hire six employees when your business needs six employees.
My friend wanted to start a club promoting business right out of university, his father gave him 40,000$ initial start up money. He spent 5,000$ on a website because "It takes money to make money man!" This guy could have literally took his unemployed ass to youtube, watched maybe 5-6 hours of videos, copy pasted all the steps and just changed up the pictures in the website but nope he wants to be mister CEO right out of university.
Most people overestimate how smart they really are because mom and dad saw them getting As in class and told them they were geniuses.
Do you know why Rockefeller was such a hard worker? Because his dad was a con-man who would sell bullshit elixirs that "cured cancer" and left his mom. Rockefeller understood at an early age that everything in life is about hard-work and sacrifice.
When I was a kid at the age of 16 I got my first job at McDonalds the next week my dad sat me down and told me straight up you make 500$ every two weeks, you are going to give me 250$ to contribute to the mortgage. While my friends were running around with their new jeans trying to impress girls I was helping out my family, I hated my father for that. Fast forward and at the age of 24 I had my first house paid off. At the age of 27 I had 3 rental properties under my name using home equity loans + money I had saved up. My father is my fucking HERO now, he saved my ass from a slave wage job, thank god he taught me about sacrifice.
Half the business owners in the world would be bored to death sitting in business class where they teach you when price goes down demand goes up, tell that to the millions of kids running around in 500$ Air Jordan's or the idiots taking out massive loans to be the "boss" driving their BMWs. You know who's the real boss? the guys convincing you to buy this shit.
The reality is that we live in a world full of lazy people who would rather play fortnite 6 hours a day instead of grind and work hard, competition for any business sector has dramatically lowered within the last couple of decades. People have time to watch the NBA and NHL but never have enough time to pursue a worth while hobby.
The smartest advice I can give any young person is get a degree or skill in a service based industry where you can be your own boss/ self employed.
I am a real estate investor now and let me tell you a story, one of my rental properties was being renovated while a tenant (he agreed to it, hell he actually wanted the renovation done) was in there and the city bylaws were coming to check up on the house. The bathroom was scheduled to be out of commission for maybe 2-6 hours but if that inspector came and saw that, I would have been fined 25,000$ and my property would have been deemed unlivable. I had to call a guy to bring a port-a-potty to throw in the backyard, he charged me 1000$ for a one day rental.
I know people in my city that make over 500k a year being real estate agents, I know people in the HVAC industry that started their own business and are bringing in 200-300k a year running a one man show. No bullshit million dollar loans needed.
People want to open up a restaurant not because they love it, its because they can brag to their friends "Oh I run the hottest restaurant in town and 20 employees work under me" but no one wants to grind hard in the plumbing industry or start a carpet cleaning company that requires $900 of initial start-up because they want to be the "boss" from day one. They buying into the BMW mentality.
Very few people in the world make over six figures a year, you are a huge exception but let me ask you this. If your boss came up to you and said "Hey UpperRedSide unfortunately we cannot pay you anymore but I noticed you love your job so you can still come in everyday and work this job without any pay" I can guarantee you that your boss will never see you ever again.
People like Mark Zukerberg, Warren Buffet and even less known millionaires have fuck you money. I worked at a restaurant when I was a kid and the owner owned 8 restaurants, this guy could retire and never work a single day in his life traveling the world but he chooses to go on vacation for a month every year because he truly loves his job. This guy would come into work every single day and work from 9-2. There is a huge difference between fulfillment and enjoyment most people only experience the latter.
If their are ten dishes on the table and you have just eaten one how can you possibly say that is the best tasting dish?
buywhenpriceishigh 5y ago
This is sage advice right here. Should be a post.
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BillyBones8 5y ago
I never believe people who claim thst they have multiple rental properties especially in their 20s. Plus you payed off a house at 24? Yeah okay bud.
genesh1121 5y ago
Lmaoo, me, my dad and mother paid off the house by the time I was 24 which they then transfered under my name but you would never understand, half of your comments are in DrDisrespectLive, Hockey and other gaming related subs, did I hurt your feelings with my fortnite and NHL comment?
politics: 37
DrDisrespectLive: 35
hockey: 34
4Runner: 23
Battlefield: 23
AskMen: 22
arcticmonkeys: 21
Muse: 19
Rainbow6: 13
malefashionadvice: 13
AirForce: 12
movies: 12
Blackops4: 10
FortNiteBR: 9
You are whats wrong with this generation.
BillyBones8 5y ago
Oh Mommy and Daddy paid for your house? Got it. So you were lying.
Im glad you had the time to look into my post history, Im flattered. Just becsuse I comment on certain subs doesnt mean those are the only ones I browse. I also have multiple accounts genius.
Guess Mommy and Daddy couldnt buy you common sense.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Very insightful. I like your points. Unfortunately I can't address each individually, as you've written quite the tome, but thanks for commenting.
sumethreuaweiei 5y ago
Hey mate, I'm 21 in uni and I would love to be where you are regarding real estate. Any advice?
genesh1121 5y ago
Buy a property as quickly as you can, depending where you live there will be lower income requirements for a first time home buyer. Let me do some quick math for you (I live in Canada so numbers may vary where you live, in the US real estate investing is much easier, you can defer taxes, never pay capital gains etc...)
Try to aim for a 3 bedroom 3 bathroom house with a finished basement (if the basement is not finished than you youtube everything or if you have a high paying job than just pay someone) . Rent out the three rooms while living in the basement (never rent out to friends, always make sure the person renting has x3 income of rent, so if rent is 500 that person MUST make around 1500). If you buy a 300k house and put down a 20% (you won't need that amount of you are first time home buyer) down payment the mortgage left will be around 240k. That would be a mortgage payment of around 1400/month. If you rent out each room for around 400-500 =1200-1500/month. You are basically living in that house rent free + paying off the principal amount, In 25 years you will fully own that house by just putting down 60k down payment.
Of course their will be property taxes heat and electric bill etc... but you will be making a salary out of university so that should take care of it. If you live in US than all interest paid on a loan is a tax deduction, if you live in Canada than interest paid on borrowed money used towards investments is a tax deducted (that means the interest on a home equity loan used as a down payment can be tax deducted).
If you live in your basement for free while charging others for rent that is around $800-1000/ Month saved = $9600/12000 saved per year on just rent. if you even make 40k after taxes than you can easily save 20k from that, in 3-4 years you buy another two properties by borrowing against the 24k-30k equity you have built + using the 80k you have saved up.
If you live with your parents just continue living there while renting out the basement to a couple, that would be an extra 800-1000/per month = $10000-12000 /year.
Stay away from fix and flips, that shit only works on late night television in my opinion. Many real estate "gurus" will try to sell you on their 9k courses do not buy them. Everything can be learned through bigger pockets/ podcasts and books.
Buy a property close to a university or major location where people always want to rent.
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Lawojin 5y ago
23 y/o M. What are said "in demand" skills that earn me 80k a year? I have no clue what skills to get that afford me the lifestyle i want. I dont give a crap about loving work. There are millions of things i would rather do than working anyways. Every job i had is just keeping occupied untill the clock ticks out. I want a job that rakes in 80k a year. Then cut time at work by 25% so i can spend more time to enjoy the comfortable lifestyle that affords me. Any tips?
CPCPub 5y ago
I had a great career where I worked my way up the ladder and earnt six figures and on paper had a great life. It all came easily to me.
I fucking hated every minute of it and I hated the rat race. I got out of it and I've never been happier. I'm glad it works for you, but I'm glad I'm not you.
holeintheceiling 5y ago
Technical school as opposed to college. Blue collar (can’t be outsourced) vs. white collar (being replaced by H1B)
centaursg 5y ago
This is true. Starting your own business sounds sexy. Being an entrepreneur is seksi and being THE CEO is even secsier. But it all comes with great cost. Elon Musk once said that being an entrepreneur is like eating glass everyday. And not everyone can be like Joe Rogan or Dana white or etc.. So its ridiculous why people hate 9-5 jobs.. As long as it serves your purpose and you make decent money, to hell with starting business. I work 9-5 sometimes 9-7.. But when it comes to relaxation , I just go on vacation peacefully, do the stuff i like and I dont have to worry about making sales calls or attending meetings or worry about employee paychecks during vacation which I think is a luxury in todays world.
MyReddit6 5y ago
Upvoting just for the creative, hilarious, and effective misspelling of "sexy" LOL
beginner_ 5y ago
Yeah and it's the assumption being self-employed makes you free. No it doesn't. You still need to pay for rent and food plus whatever to sustain the business.
But now you are also your own secretary, IT support and finance department. And hopefully you chose an area of work where you don't need to be your own legal department. Note: Highly unlikely.
Simply said you will work more for less income while also having a less stable income.
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BitsAndBobs304 5y ago
by definition even if everyone works as hard as everyone else towards getting a top job, only very few will get it
dongpal 5y ago
talent and hard work- the people without talent wont make it.
SammyD1st 5y ago
The economy is not zero sum.
BitsAndBobs304 5y ago
so everyone that works hard can have a high paying job? what?
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
No. Mostly those born into riches or great familial connections. There are outliers who work from bottom up but they're far fewer than what Hollywood leads people to believe. The West is a quasi-caste system think no ways about it.
btharmony 5y ago
You sound extremely uneducated lol.
BillyBones8 5y ago
He sounds like a typical Blue Collar guy who is smug about not going to college but still makes decent money. The guy makes good money in a field that he enjoys so he thinks everyone else can do the same. Must be easy right?
Some people dont have a passion, some people dont like blue collar work, some people have other financial obligations.
btharmony 5y ago
Yea I feel for him about the last line, where he posts about getting raped. But he doesn't realize that he's playing the role that the system wants him to.
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The funny thing is, unlike sheep, humans don't need a sheepdog to herd them. They end up doing it themselves. No fucking shit working 9-5 is stable and good for the average fucktard. But is this the message you want to instill in men? Men are creators, inventors and craftsmen. The last thing you should strive for is to aim to work for another man and be a cuck to the corporate system. It's just a means to an end. That is all.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
If you think that, you're one retarded fuck. That's all I have to say to this shit.
CanookAround87 5y ago
This is a great post. I was caught up in that lifestyle pipe dream for a long time. I had some great opportunities in my hands when I was younger than I pissed away because I was too hell bent on the 4 hour work week.
Luckily I found something where I have months off a year to travel, and could still retire 7 figures by 40 (currently 27). I'm working for someone else, but I moved abroad and am taking advantage of a lax tax country and working multiple jobs because theres such a demand for what I'm doing.
Someone mentioned about being wary of various education costs to get a job. Which I would highly - education debt kind of a different topic. I wish I would have looked more at trades back when I was choosing a career path. Theres also a stigma against bluecollar work - which actually pays way more than a lot of white collar shit.
And I also think even if you are working for someone, you should be improving yourself on the side, or working a side hustle of sort - which you mentioned. Killer post again, man.
insanetempo 5y ago
Agreed.
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When I entered college I tried to find the highest paying thing I could do that played to my talents in math/computer-shit. A certain niche in electrical engineering fit the bill. I'm 37 now and make 230-250k per year. I have great job security (can work other places although I might have to move if I want to make 200k+) and rarely have to work more than 9-5 (TBH I rarely work more than 10-5!). The work is enjoyable (figuring shit out, that's engineering). But TBH you can like virtually any job or hate virtually any job depending on your mindset, so many people think they are a special snowflake and have one passion waiting for them out there - just like women there is not just one. If you do good work and add value you'll be paid for it, entrepreneur or not. A lot of people at 9-5 are NOT adding value and just like to bitch and moan and fantasize about how the grass is greener. If the company you are with sucks, leave. Usually people have just rationalized their poor performance at work in my experience - "I don't get paid enough", "well, so and so doesn't have to do this", "so and so gets paid more", "what I'm doing doesn't matter", "my boss doesn't liek me", etc etc. If they became an entrepreneur they'd do the same fucking thing with customers, competitors, etc etc.
dongpal 5y ago
its about having a natural talent at something. i worked as a elecitrcan and the work was pain in the ass. dirty, hard, strict logical with no leeway, not made for me. its not all mindset. work somewhere where you are naturally good at and expand the skills.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Open-mindedness is one of the biggest fucking keys to success. Being open to more leads to the discovery of more possibilities. More possibilities leads to more options which makes finding something you love the shit out of a hell of a lot more likely.
eRaR_404 5y ago
Agreed. I work as a Computer Helpdesk analyst. Been doing this for almost 10 years (im almost 30).
While I don't make too much. I make enough to sustain myself and my dog. And I have a lot of independence at my current job. I run the entire site, (my bosses and supervisors live in other states). I have a giant office, I have a workout mat and a stability and medicine ball so I can and have made gains while working. And overall I feel appreciated here because im good at my job. I can get away with coming in late and leaving early and I can break whenever I want. And its only 15 mins from home.
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I've been looking into trading stocks but right now i'm saving to get out of debt and see what happens from there.
There's nothing wrong with working a job as long as you like it.
sumethreuaweiei 5y ago
Any tips on getting a bulls it job just to sustain yourself?
eRaR_404 5y ago
Experience and networking is key. I've worked ground up from entry level after graduating a 1 year program. You always want to build connections and network with fellow techs. One person who used to be my shift supervisor for a 3 month contract is now one of my good friends, I was a groomsman in his wedding last month. Im now at the point where I just update my resume and throw it on indeed (monster sucks now) and recruiters call me 95% of the time for jobs including the job I had now. In fact 100% of my jobs just fell on my lap even at entry level. It just takes getting that first job and snowballing it. Keep in touch with your recruiters from time to time because I have reached out to them when I was out of a job for a while and they lined me up with a job within the week, no interview needed. So yea, Experience and Networking. A+ and N+ plus helps and im currently studying for both but I got to where im at with no certs besides the one from my school.
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_Ozu_ 5y ago
This sub has really went down hill lately. I never thought I'd see normie rhetoric peddled here as "red pill." Did most of the decent users leave after the quarantine or something?
BillyBones8 5y ago
Right? Never would expect this post here. 9-5 grind is not Redpill.
frendo223 5y ago
They decent users left 2 years ago, ever since the blue pilled betas who want to provide and have ltrs with these hoes with oneitus that believe in unicorns invaded and completely took over this sub lol
The nawalts took over this sub and they hate chad or anything redpill that wakes them up. They hate chad, they hate pussy, and they hate awalt, all while being blinded by oneitus. Hell they don’t even like the word oneitis. It’s just toxic now
Anything that breaks there fantasy of there Disney fairy tail unicorn while claiming to be redpilled they hate lol
They pretty much hate ANYTHING redpilled. These words they expecially hate “she’s not yours it’s just your turn”
circlingldn 5y ago
Did they leave before or after every other post being"lift" or some shitty field report
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Yes, exactly right! You great pillar of Red Pill Knawledge and Arbiter of All Affiliated Subreddits you! Enlighten us with your righteous vengeance. Let us return to the order which you established so long ago.
_Ozu_ 5y ago
Lol sarcasm makes you sound butthurt.
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
If you had proper direction in life, made the necessary sacrifices, and put forth the work to get into a good career very early on. Great! The 9-5 schtick doesn't apply to you.
For people who dropped out of college, pursued a career that had a limited market, pursued a career because they were prompted to by parents so they could boost their status, or even a field that meshes poorly then the 9-5 schtick applies. Very few people land jobs that pay well they enjoy and even fewer land dream jobs. You are one among a minority OP while the majority trots on for a paycheck to last them 'til the end of the week.
Fulp_Piction 5y ago
Nobody ever said that working 40 hours a week was a bad idea. If you love it, fantastic, go work 60 hours then. The point is to do what you want to do and don't apologise for it.
If you spend upwards of 40% of your time hating how you spend it you're not gonna be happy - I don't think that money solves that but I've not been consistently payed stupid money so that's just my 2c. Personally it doesn't matter how hard I work, spending my time well energises me, spending it poorly tires me.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Yep. Couldn't have said it better. For those individuals chasing entrepreneurial-ism, nobody put a gun to your head and said you had to or they'd shoot. Don't buy into the message of the "influencers" who forcefeed a certain lifestyle in order to make money off of people's insecurities.
MrIncreible10 5y ago
I am finishing reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad. It highly encourages getting out of the "rat race", but not to completely disclose being dependent. The book basically tells that if you want to get rich, you must spend your money on actives and minimize passives. You get the experience of investing in good deals with financial knowledge, which includes, a course in finance, accountancy, and human resources.
However, it does not say build a business and get rich. It advices to work through your 20s in a company to learn a skill. For example, get into a sales company so you know how to communicate.
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From this point on, then you can invest in a business, buying houses and reselling them, trade stocks etc. At least this book is not bullshit. It rather changes the mentality of acquiring a house, a car, vacations and luxury and invest in what I mentioned before.
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
Rich Dad poor Dad is a terrible book for college kids because it fills their heads with delusions of grandeur without clearly defining an outline or template. I'm one of them and have fared quite badly due to it's influence.
Understand that in order to build and independent flow of income eventually you have to save money & invest. Be it in Real-Estate, Stocks, Mutual Funds, etc. Everything else in that book is bullshit.
askmrcia 5y ago
I'm so glad you said this. Rich Dad Poor Dad is a shit book used by MLM scammers. Also the book has been heavily debunked.
Most of the shit in the book is completely made up also. The author of the book is known to be full of shit.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
This. This is exactly what I'm doing. Learning a skill, and investing in assets. The money I make makes more money.
centaursg 5y ago
Rich dad poor dad is made lot of money for the author. He is basically selling the dream. Unless people in their late teens figure it out what they want to be, it will be very hard later in life to chose paths.
Usually "follow their passion" is a terrible advice to give to someone. Instead pick a good area - like science, engineering, accounting/economics, humanities, business and keep accumulating skills. Slow growth is the right approach. All the people who sell the dream of saving money and investing and retiring at age 40 are delusional. They focus on "how to hack". Instead acquire different skills. Not only you will be busy(or feel like have a meaningful goal), you will also have decent stream of income if you get employed somewhere.I have been unemployed before, did some contract work (2-3months duration ) and it was scary not knowing when I`ll get the next contract. I wonder how all these independent talented artists like painters, comedians musicians etc get by. Its a tough world out there and people done be stupid to live by lifestyle blogs.
tchower 5y ago
It’s actually a good thing for entrepreneurs and big leaders that there are a lot of people like you that like their 9 to 5. Glad there are people like you.
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
Operant conditioning. They enforce bullcrap codes to condition employees to behave like obedient cattle. It's sole purpose is to force compliance to the company to the point where workers feel helpless. The more helpless they feel the more they work for the illusion of job security.
tchower 5y ago
This is definitely a management tactic used from time to time from top down that obviously works on people and is used in government also. The writer’s above post is interesting to me, because from my understanding and experience, it’s always been starting your own business or your own company that’s stigmatized and discouraged by people, even growing up in the United States. It’s probably a lot worse in other countries where the 9 to 5 is your only future and destiny in life. Usually parents, family and girlfriends push the 9 to 5 and stigmatize entrepreneurship until you can prove yourself at it. At least this was the way society was for me growing up. Good to hear the other side though, a big part of the red pill that could separate us from other internet communities is being able to discuss other perspectives that might not be our exact world view, just as long as it’s relevant to the progress of red pill.
OhUncleT-Bag 5y ago
I work a 9-5 office job, travel frequently to client sites and get paid a fuck ton, this is the rat race I signed up for, it's the rat race that has given me the means to fuck about, be a better man and accomplish more than I could've imagined.
Some 9-5's are shit, I'll grant you that but sometimes, the rat race is the race you want to be in, especially if you can navigate your way to the top.
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LandoChronus 5y ago
This guy speaks truth. I went to a 2 year community college for automotive but didn't get a job after. I blame the economy crash in 08 (no-one wanted a rookie when they needed master techs for cheap) but I also didn't try as hard as I should have.
After 8 years trying to make a go of restaurants to work up and run one or own my own I said fuck it. I'm now in a dealership as a lowly lube tech, making under the "national salary average". But I love the 8-5 schedule and am paying off my debts while growing a savings account for the first time in my life. This entry level position pays 35% more than the industry I have 9 years of experience in (started while in college).
It took a long time to realize all this, but I'm a man: I have plenty of time left.
ElegantCyclist 5y ago
The other reality is that the vast majority of jobs are available in existing, large corporations or government.
Making your own job is great. But, in reality, in terms of sheer numbers, most people are going to work in companies.
I think guys should be alert to opportunities for creating their own businesses and work. But guys should also realize the majority of the population is not going to see that work for them.
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
Plus international companies are so large nowadays they tend to eclispse smaller owned businesses. Still, if there's a demand in your given area it's worth a shot regardless.
sumethreuaweiei 5y ago
You don't recommend being a cook? How did you get to the position you’re at now?
LandoChronus 5y ago
Not unless you just HAVE to have a career is a cook/chef, but if you're here reading about money and how to make it, chances are it's not something you're that passionate about. The 2 main regions I've done the restaurant business in are just broken. The issues everyone seems to have with jobs is amplified: wages are lower than they should be, expectations/demands are higher than they should be, in restaurants you're expected to never call out, if you do, it's a huge deal.
It's just a shit industry, and while I don't regret doing it, I realize I wasted a lot of time and potential progress so now I feel like I'm "making it up".
What do you mean by your second question ?
Melbourne91 5y ago
Build yourself. I’m 27, I work 2 days a week and make $1,500-$2,000. I have all the spare time in the world to build up other options, If you play the system it will always win. If you gamble for the unconventional pathway then you might just win. I am lucky, but I am proof it is possible.
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rosbergsessa420 5y ago
I mean whats the real difference. If you have an own business you are a slave of your customers anyway and you will have to work a ton of hours, even if no asshole is actually telling you what to do. Unless at some point you become able to have someone else to do the actual work while you just own the business, truth is you will actually be more of a slave than if you have a boss and fixed timetable/salary. Having an own business, freelancing and being self employed really isn't for anyone. Not even close.
SalporinRP 5y ago
I guarantee you 99% of the commenters on here and asktrp bragging about they started their own e-commerce company or some shit and are making 150k while doing nothing are lying out their ass.
The key is to find the thing you like doing (within reason). And make a career out of it. I have a friend who went into business because he wanted to make a lot of money. Because his end goal was simply money he's currently a finance job crunching excel sheets 12 hours a day and hates his life. Meanwhile I have another friend that wanted to be a nurse. Graduated college with a starting salary of 70k, and a year ago he transferred to a well-known cancer hospital and makes 110k/yr at 25 and is having the time of his life doing what he loves. Oh yeah and he works 3 days a week so has plenty of time for lifting, reading, etc. Plus nursing is a job where once you're off, you're off. No sleepless nights spent stressing about some big presentation. And while of course nursing, especially in a cancer hospital, comes with it's own struggles he loves what he does.
The idea that the 9-5 grind is pointless is stupid. Yes there will be some smart 20 year-old entrepreneurs (0.000001%) who come up with some amazing business plan and never have to work a 9-5 grind for a company in their life. But that is such a small minority.
askmrcia 5y ago
No doubt. Same thing with guys who say they bang 10s all the time. People, especially in this age love comparing themselves to their peers.
The older I get, the more I see through the bs. People will work as a QA tester or business analyst and call themselves project managers at age 26.
I ran into so many people in their 20s who say they are VP of some firm. It's hilarious when you think about it.
We all know the one guy who says he banged some 8, but when he shows you a pic of her and she's a hb5, he says "I swear she looked better in person."
I've seen it all. Do I really need to bring up people who call themselves travelers or hikers and do a hiking trip like once a year?
People calling themselves business owners because they have a youtube page that's not even making profit or involved with MLM.
I personally know three IG models. Their entire page is a lie. All of them worked or still work at a fast food place. Use their credit card debt or some idiot guy to pay for trips everywhere. Or they will take one trip, take a million pics and post those pics sparingly throughout the year making it looking like they travel often. They aren't even close to being rich as their pages will make it seem.
This comes from people who failed at life. Often times very young 20 somethings who have a shit degree and can't find a real job.
Real entrepreneurs aren't going around bashing people who have ledgit careers. You're not a slave because you work for someone else. If your job feels like slavery then just leave and find a better one or go down another path.
Yeurruey 5y ago
Your brother uses to rape you?
monkeycycling 5y ago
Yeah I don't think anyone in the comments read that final part
Imperator_Red 5y ago
It's not the 9-5 or working for someone else in and of itself that destroys your soul. It's working in a modern corporation, wherein you must police your behavior and tone, behave in a way acceptable to women, and live under the thumb of literal secret police (HR) that many find intolerable. It's going through the majority of every day in your life behaving like a fucking robot and acting in a way that's completely unnatural for a man.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
That's your choice; You could as well work in porn, if that's important for you. Joke aside, there millions of companies and billions of jobs worldwide, you even don't have to stay in your country. So if you don't like your current company/job, take another one.
slip_like_space 5y ago
This got me in trouble with HR. One of the office managers (female I might add) asked me to setup a projector in one of the common areas. I did with no problem and in a timely manner. Next thing I knew, I got a call from HR saying that my behavior was unprofessional. WTF!? I did what was asked. Turns out she just didn't like the WAY the projector was setup. Thankfully the HR guy was a dude and was completely on my side. I reported to my boss about it and he just scoffed. Apparently, she's known for this. So now I just steer clear and hold my frame.
DarkSyde3000 5y ago
All too true. Luckily I work graves, have my own office and don't have to interact with management or HR at all because they're all in bed while I'm here. When they do get here I'm clocking out and on my way home. But you're right HR departments are like the SS these days and women can get you fired for literally anything. A friend of mine at another place complimented some woman in the elevator about her outfit one day, an hour later he was in the HR office getting shit canned for sexual harassment. That's why businesses now see women as a liability and no longer want to hire them.
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masterpiece00 5y ago
This - modern offices -jobs are toxic cesspools/safe spaces for women and places for soy married men to act like they are tough giving someone instructions.
magx01 5y ago
THIS. I was there once. Got the fuck out right away. Small business is where it's at. MUCH more relaxed/free. At least the ones I have been at.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
When you have been working in big corporations, you realize they are like dozen/hundred small company all together. The work, the humor, even methods and the experience is completely different from one team to another anyway.
lux_7 5y ago
Agree, way too much vitriol against corporate and bis business employment.
Even more so outside the US actually. In Europe it's even better with lots of protection and lots of holidays.
VojvodaSrpski 5y ago
You seem very bitter and dissatisfied with your life. I'm sorry if you can't navigate in the adult world without being guided by your hand, but that doesn't mean everyone else is just like you. You sound like those miserable alcoholics that want everyone else to drink with them so they wouldn't feel like a drunk failures that they are.
Personal freedom and independence are number one things in life, there's no way around that fact.
Wage slavery is a state of mind.
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legitniga 5y ago
Sounds like you were too scared to face the void and now you’re trying to justify your average lifestyle to yourself.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
OK.
Like I said, I'm not here to influence anyone's perception of me. Feel free to come to whatever conclusion you deem fit.
ArdAtak 5y ago
True. I'm a software engineer and although there's a lot I hate about the industry, it's afforded me a great lifestyle. If I'd been smarter about marriage earlier in life I'd be a millionaire by now.
btrpb 5y ago
I'm with you man. I earn £6 figures programming. I was well on my way to a mil sterling till divorce set me back.
But still, I lead a very comfortable life.
Old_Awareness 5y ago
I'm in exactly the same boat. Many millions.
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runninthrutha6 5y ago
What did you take away from your marriage experience?
RedPilledGodEmperor 5y ago
Probably to not get married. lol.
ConservativelyRight 5y ago
this man gets it.
ArdAtak 5y ago
I wouldn't have done it. Not because all women are evil. But people change. She's not a terrible person. She's just terrible for me because we're so different now. I would have waited 'til I was 40 to get married. I would have compromised on NOTHING. I would have known what to look for.
Jaereth 5y ago
This is the only real secret. If there's something about a woman you don't like but you think you would "deal with" to get married just to check that box that you did it in life, don't.
RPAlternate42 5y ago
From me to you and all.of us in MRP and TRP:
I feel the same way. She's great, but had I waited for never, I'd be more established. Actually I'd probably be a MGySgt in the Marine Corps right now.
thefilthyhermit 5y ago
Hey, at least she has a hot box of crayons on the table then you get home.
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Branrcole 5y ago
Just make sure you also remember all the bullshit you dealt with in the Corps, not just the good things. Lots of vets make that mistake
RPAlternate42 5y ago
I am thinking of the "bullshit."
I actually didn't mind it since I chose not to let it bother me. A thing is taking place, I can't change it, so I have to adjust to it, work through it, and be victorious over it: improvise, adapt, overcome.
The Marine Corps, and specifically it's bullshit, set the foundation for stoic thinking, for me; Semper Gumby: always flexible.
Branrcole 5y ago
God you must have been a POG, forget I even spoke to you
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ArdAtak 5y ago
Supporting wifey and 2 kids for 15 years.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Wow. Who would've thought something like that would have happened. I thought marriage was like the best idea ever, especially doing it young.
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(Disclaimer for the mentally challenged: sarasm.)
crespo_modesto 5y ago
what does this gap mean? /s ha
majaka1234 5y ago
To allow you to go "what in the fuck is this guy smokin- ohhhh it's a joke."
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TheStoicCrane 5y ago
Read it as a dramatic pause. Same types of posts are in youtube comments where the punchline is hidden under a "read more" tab.
crespo_modesto 5y ago
dramatic... PAUSE!!! ~ Futurama
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U-94 5y ago
I went to college 15 years ago....and basically if you sucked at math (most people), you sought a major that didn't require any math - no engineering or business - therefore, a worthless liberal arts education.
Cdsmasher 5y ago
'muricans. Typical 'muricans. Thinking that the whole world = USA. Not surprising really.
bringer_of_glory 5y ago
People think, that after becoming self employed, they will finally be happy, confident, stong, successful, independent etc.. They only see the positive sites (that they imagine) and built this dream around it.
And of course, there are all the people who play on this and try to sell you all kinds of crap, so you can finally fullfil that dream (like they did).
Books, coachings, workshops, seminars, paywalls and what not. Your freedom and happiness is just one step away from you, you just have to reach out and pay that cash.
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Most people don't like to see, that insecuritie, bad moods and other forms of suffering will always be part of life - and there is no external thing, that will fix that.
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Great post and I am sorry to hear what happened to you in your childhood. I am sure, you have also been able to gain positive things from this experience.
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unn4med 5y ago
To expand on the illusion of living for hope and dreams - everyone seeing this comment should be reading “The Power of Now” ASAP.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
>Books, coachings, workshops, seminars, paywalls and what not. Your freedom and happiness is just one step away from you, you just have to reach out and pay that cash.
Lol I grab my wallet whenever I see those "just give me thirty seconds" ads.
>Great post and I am sorry to hear what happened to you in your childhood. I am sure, you have also been able to gain positive things from this experience.
Thanks for caring. The positive of my childhood experience is that it's made me a very aggressive person. Aggressive in my enterprise, my resourcefulness, my work ethic. Also, it's made me quite tough. I can walk off some pretty gnarly shit. It's also made me leave religion, which, (if anyone reading this is religious, guess you'll have to be triggered) has helped me become a very rational, logical kind of person.
Mildly_Sociopathic 5y ago
If you don't mind me asking, how did you deal with that when it was happening and afterwards?
Are they in prison or have you simply written them out of your life entirely?
Don_Himself 5y ago
Ahh the rare insightful post in this soy-riddled post-2015 TRP sub.
Great thread.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Thanks for reading.
Hey I live by this shit. Wouldn't have it any other way.
IQVX 5y ago
If you truly enjoy what you do in a 9-5 type job, then you are right, it won't feel like a rat race at all. But you should consider yourself blessed to have a passion you can explore and be compensated for. Most people do not love their jobs.
The real problem lies with those who went to college for something, realized somewhere along the way that they didn't really like it, or didn't have a passion for it, but under the pressure of student loans and the allure of graduating faster, went ahead and finished their program and got their degree. And then, got their first job as a real adult and realized it was a living hell.
Now, they trudge to work every day, tied to the need for income to pay off their mountain of student debt, car loans, etc.
I agree that the 9-to-5 rat race meme is extremely exaggerated, but there is certainly truth to it, and when paired with marketing language, can be deadly in terms of draining people's bank accounts in exchange for BS 'courses' from 'lifestyle' laptop bros as you mentioned above.
The insane cost of traditional college education in the US is the chief culprit in all of this. It's the reason people are afraid to find something better suited to them, the reason they hesitate to change course whether in college or in their first, second, third corporate job...
Jaereth 5y ago
Sucker's bet right there.
https://www.daveramsey.com/blog/the-truth-about-car-payments/
If you feel like you need a hot car to get pussy, you do you I guess.
But if you are paying off a huge mountain of student loans, no way you should be doing a new off the lot car payment with it.
IQVX 5y ago
Hot car to get pussy? Huh. Where did I say that. I was just throwing out random examples of debt.
Don't overthink it.
Old_Awareness 5y ago
Upvote for proper use of the word "meme".
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
In essence it's creating a caste system of worker drones.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
Not really:
1) If you really do take a high paying job out of it, and you should, there not really a problem: it will pay for itself shortly.
2) Maybe your parents paid for you like many actually do
3) You could as well study AND visit the world, in many countries, you can study with almost no money to spend.
4) High paying job are not more boring. If there a tendency, that more of the contrary. This is the low wage job where the employee fire you on a whim, is aggressive and do not let you any freedom. And you have many more choices. Almost 100% sure that you can find one high paid and interresting for your tastes.
L0nerizm 5y ago
As someone in the exact position you described, two years into the corporate world and miserable with every day... is there no option than to just suck it up?
Jaereth 5y ago
What are your skills? Is there more you can acquire that will up your earning potential/desirability?
It all comes down to how desirable of an employee you are. If your on the top of the totem pole there, you can really pick when and where you work. If you are at the bottom, you are "lucky" to have a job.
The biggest hustle i've noticed since I entered the corporate world - get your employer to pay for training!!!. It's fucking unreal, but most places worth working have training programs to benefit their workforce and enrich them. To me, this just makes your resume better and increases your options.
Really depends on what field you are in, but there's always someone above you right? Usually there's no way you are going up in your current building. In most very professional jobs you actually have to switch companies to get the promotion in the process. However, again to the resumes, once you are a project manager or department manager or whatever, that's your level and you should never go down.
Keep at this for a few years and eventually you'll make so much money you won't be miserable anymore.
Good luck to you.
ZombiNawhal 5y ago
I imagine you can bend your way around and find another path, perhaps pursue what you want to, but it's like turning an oil tanker. Once they get momentum it takes a while to turn about
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the-dan-man 5y ago
Change job. Change city. Change country. Suck it up and get some serious savings, travel all summer or winter.
Or invest those savings in college, learn a new skill and change careers.
Frankly, if people are so fucking miserable doing their 9-5, why do they do it? Claim welfare or some shit and reasses your life and your options. You are not a slave, and you do have options, try to remmeber that.
Walkerstain 5y ago
Except not everyone lives in America. My country has a high unemployment rate and no welfare system, there's very little space for error and you have to sacrifice the things you love for something that pays a mortgage.
Nicolas0631 5y ago
You don't have to take a credit if you don't want to. You don't have to stay in your country neither.
You don't have to choose the job you dislike the most across the millions available.
Lastly, you have only 1 life, you can find escuses, but if really your life doesn't fit you at all, you are truely disatisfied, you shouldn't really change something, nobody will do it for you. They don't care.
IQVX 5y ago
If it's an idea for a business, you can slowly work on building it up on the side (would take serious discipline and couldn't just come home and slack off anymore) or if it's a career change, you'd have to find a way to balance obtaining the training/education required for it while still maintaining existing income. Some paths are easier than others, of course. Some you could probably take classes online and keep your FT job, whereas others would require formal training and you'd have to temporarily drop to part-time or find a different job altogether, just something to provide supplement income to get you through your education or training. The key here is being able to set your ego aside and take the hit, temporarily lowering your standard of living (i.e. less income) for a better future doing something you like. The scenarios are endless. I'd imagine there's always a "best path" when you consider a.) what you do now, and b.) what you want to be doing. With some research and asking around, I bet you could create a roadmap for where you want to be. There won't be anything fun about it though, and you have to be really sure you want to make the jump...
[deleted] 5y ago
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IQVX 5y ago
My entire post was about how "you should leave that job and find one you love" is much easier said than done.
[deleted] 5y ago
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gayqwertykeyboard 5y ago
So what consequences are there if you don’t pay them?
ConservativelyRight 5y ago
wtf are you talking about. they can garnish wages if you do not make payments. please do not mislead people.
The only way out is IBR, but you're eventually going to have a tax bomb with that. So you trade your federal loan servicer for the IRS coming after you. And at that point, if you don't pay your "taxes," you will serve time.
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TheStoicCrane 5y ago
Can destroy your credit and jack up interest rates to the point where a 32k loan for a State Uni becomes 80k or above.
IQVX 5y ago
OK. You can go around boldly and proudly declaring how you refuse to be 'enslaved' by your debt all you like. Knock yourself out. It won't change the fact that it's debt. And you need to pay it back.
This is real life bud - if you owe something, you owe something.
FozzyGoiter 5y ago
Except there's no workhouses or debtor's prisons so at the end of the day, they can't make you pay it back, only lower your credit score. Massive debt, risks and failures are the standard operating procedure in big business and national monetary policy, why not scale that down to the personal? No seriously...if, by the most conservative estimates, the sea levels will rise 5 feet in the next hundred years, why do little pieces of paper matter?
BobbyBurrito22 5y ago
There’s a bit of a misconception that whatever you study in college will dictate your career path, which is just untrue, aside from the medical/law/etc. route
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Even a law degree I’ve heard can be pretty versatile. I’ve heard. I was considering law school recently and decided not to pull the trigger on that whole enchilada tho.
VasiliyZaitzev 5y ago
Think long and hard about law school before going.
Source: Am a lawyer by training.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
lol ya i deduced it would’ve been a bad decision. At least for me.
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TopOccasion29 5y ago
Damn OP, sorry what happened to you. Do you keep in contact with your family or did you cut them off once you became independent?
​
I agree with most of your post. Before becoming self-employed you need the money and connections...And how does one get the money and connections without having a rich and well known family?...by networking, working your ass off to get the funds. On the other hand, the corporate world is a toxic and stressful place, so i understand why some people don't want to have anything to do with with and go their own way being self employed and making money from something they actually have a passion for. The rat race is exaggerated by delusional people who need a reality check but some of it is true. Those who market the "self employed" story don't talk about the blood, sweat, tears, disappointment and failures that got them to that level. They only talk about the success and the cliche "you will make it like meeee". The truth is some people aren't cutout for self-employment while some aren't cutout for 9-5. Although my family is "well off", I'm young and don't have crazy money or connections so i know i have to work my ass off in my 20s and possibly early 30s to get a lot of money an then invest and start-up my business.
​
Most people with successful businesses already had the finances and connections to begin with. That's why startup and "self made" businesses are usually partnered between former colleagues in the same field. For example, "Challenger banks" which are usually solely internet web based or mobile smartphone app based are created by people who worked in the corporate traditional banking system for years and some even decades and then decided to leave, partnered with each other and startup a different style of banking. They already worked, made money, networked and had the connections to create a business.
NormalAndy 5y ago
I have 3 jobs. 2 working for other companies and 1 more I love to do during gap times. Bit of travel between them but I live the fact I can work mental hard and finally get PAID!
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
Learn in demand skill = surgery Acquire mastery = work in large academic hospital or go private or open your own clinic (much flexibility) Get paid the big bucks = 300,000 - 400,000
I agree with your formula. Surgery is best profession. Highly in demand. Highly flexible. Gives big bucks.
circlingldn 5y ago
Surgery is shit unless its a sub field
You have em's making $300 hr @age 30
Heck crnas are making $125 an hour
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
So ur saying em is better in terms of compensation?
circlingldn 5y ago
any subspeciality will make more than EM in the long run, but general surgery is shit, optho is kinda shit too
ENT, Ortho, Urology, Obgyn, neuro, Interventional radiology, plastics etc are much better
Em will earn the most at 29-30 though
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
What is highest paying primary care specialty? Cardiology?
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kiwifx 5y ago
If you hate the 9-5 and you're not on track to get out of it by becoming self employed, you need to work your way toward something you do enjoy. Trust me, it's out there. I fucking love my job. The guys I work with are funny as hell, the work is great, I love the company. I'm even passively getting in shape just from the work. But it took several career and company changes over 18-20 years to land it, and until now I thought my situation was a pipe dream.
And now that I'm here, I'm looking at starting an online business supplying tools we use in the job at a lower price than the company can get the for. I'm doing that not from the mindset of "I have to do this and succeed or the job will drive me to suicide". I'm doing it out of passion.
You're spot on, OP - nothing wrong with the 9-5.
HardTruths83 5y ago
My story: High school....Army....College....(Registered Nurse)....85k, first year, >100k every year since...
Worked in the ER at busy hospitals first 4 years. It sucked BIG TIME. I was a disposable turd to the hospital (Rat Race), but they paid the hell out of me to be that turd. Also, if my boss sucked, I told her/him to shove it and had another job within 30 mins because I studied an in-demand field.
Now: Work for state gov, in a prison. I wear whatever I want to work (tactical pants, polo and combat boots for me...because I'm a soldier to this day). I work 7a-3P, M-F, leaving me time to lift, game, pursue hobbies, hang with friends. I have 40+ paid days off per year between holidays, PTO, and sick time, paid education leave, etc. I have GREAT health benefits and still pull >100k, without any OT, which is plentiful if I want it.
I also have a side biz: I co-own a small car dealership which this "rat race" job provided the seed money, flexible schedule, income security and health benefits to allow me to venture into the car biz. I love cars and spend a LOT of my income on them. Currently, I have: a new 4x4 Ram 1500 crew cab-nicely customized, a 2005 Millenium Yellow Corvette (C6) with lambo doors (corny but cool) and a 2004 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited LJ, and several dirt toys (RZR, quad etc). Currently shopping for boat and Harley to be purchased within the next year. Not bad for 35 and divorced with 2 kids.
A friend has a BA in Human Resources and spun that into a 140K/year job with PG&E, then took that income and bought 6 rental houses by age 35, and now pulls in 60k a year in passive income from those and a big net worth due to appreciation of the properties. On the flip side, my construction contractor friend has no health insurance (too expensive to justify buying @ over 1000/mo). His income is unstable and unpredictable and he works his ASS off outdoors all day, while I sit here on Reddit.
Different strokes for different folks. Bottom line is, do your research, invest in YOURSELF by pursuing a field that pays well and then spin that into investment income so that you can eventually be free of the "rat race" if you choose to want to escape it...I certainly don't. This car business could free me from my 40-hour, chill, admin job, but it won't be right away and it won't have the benefits I get for a LONG time, if ever. In the meantime, it provides a nice tax shelter so that I can write off a ton of my expenses as business-related....because they are, and helps me keep more of the money I make from my primary gig. Second bottom line.....don't study anything that has a saturated market, pays crap, has little growth potential, or where you won't be valued. If you LOVE something that fits that criteria, you make it a HOBBY and not your primary source of income.
EdmondDantes777 5y ago
You don't really understand how the world works at all if that's what you truly believe.
TheTrenTrannyTrain 5y ago
No complaint from me, I also work a 9 to 5 job, gets paid 7 figures, and work only 6 months out of the year. Pretty comfortable but it is getting boring, so I'm looking to go back to school to upgrade. The money I saved over the years will help my transition easier.
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imploredpill 5y ago
Just because this is what you did doesn’t make it the best path to take. You’re a fool if you aren’t taking advantage of the internet renaissance that we’re going through. There are so many ways to make money online and the “laptop lifestyle” you speak of is what I’m living right now and its fucking amazing.
Kingspot 5y ago
would you mind sharing how you make money? Nothing terribly specific. do you use a skill like coding or webdesign? is it a creative thing like selling audio or video work/services or art work? Do you teach and sell classes/E-books?
kenpachitz 5y ago
Been 10 hours since you asked and... silence.
Figures.
Soalian 5y ago
It's the 4-Hour-Workweek lifestyle, can't be rushed to reply to emails or comments
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UpperRedSide 5y ago
Good for you.
However, no one should feel pressured into that kind of lifestyle. Not everyone is predisposed to or even capable of that lifestyle. The point of my post in a nutshell.
mishasam89 5y ago
just like not everyone is predisposed to or even capable of the 9-5. do i really need to explain this to you?
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Well, no, you obviously don't, as I've said the selfsame thing a few times already. Everyone is different, but my goal was not to tell people what to do. It was to dispel the stigma surrounding a 9-5 type job.
9BrUaN3PKNxboWgP 5y ago
I’m not quite sure of what “laptop lifestyle” is. First I’ve heard that phrase.
Is it teleworking for a brick-and-mortar company? I’ve noticed the trend in that lately...
blr1998 5y ago
im in the same boat as you. other than working for a legit corporation remotely, I don't understand how you can be a self starter and make enough money from the internet without getting out into the world and making IRL connections and shit
dongpal 5y ago
by learning skills by yourself? if you are passionate about something, you probably spend many hours a day since 13 or something like that and after reaching 20s you are way ahead of the population by theoritcal and especially practical knowledge and experience. school teaches you to be diversified, I tell you to be specialized.
unn4med 5y ago
Check out Kevin David on YouTube. You will see. The internet is changing everything.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Yeah I’m also curious what general avenue you have an online business? I have been researching different business models and routes for a while and I see some plausible ones and some false alleys. Not always easy to distinguish tho. Any help is appreciated.
unn4med 5y ago
Check out Ryan Moran. Kevin David. Brock Johnson. (Amazon FBA focused)
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Damn i had written off amazon fba cuz I heard it was no good, at least not anymore. Legit then huh? Did you purchase any ebooks or courses?
unn4med 5y ago
Oh it’s legit man. It’s hard work of course. Mostly a mental fight of “you can do it” every day / week / month.
Do you wanna learn more about it? Shoot me a pm. I’m not selling anything, just wanna share what I learned.
scissor_me_timbers00 5y ago
Uhh frick yeah I wanna learn more. I’ve been mapping out this blog idea for months but I’m skeptical if it can be profitable. I’m putting myself under the gun to make an online income in some way or other. So yeah I’ll PM you. Much appreciated
rosbergsessa420 5y ago
mate, the only people who really push this kind of shit are these 16 year old new age liberal nutheads who can't start a lawnmower but want to start a revolution. They don't know how real life works because they never tried their hand at it, because their parents are still paying for that "revolution" and probably will do for a few more decades.
truth is that power matters, status matters, money matters. in their failure to obtain any of them, they want to make it look like it doesnt matter and downplay it for everybody else, so that the focus goes towards their "humanity" and fairness for the greater good, because they can't really do anything else. That's all there is to it.
YES it is a rat race because REAL LIFE is a rat race, humans much like any other species are competitive and only the fittest will survive, there are hierarchies, power struggles, egos and associations. You have to be good at what you do, or you will fall behind. If you are an internet activist that can't do anything productive in your despair because the world is too unfair - well I got some bad news for you.
Nothing wrong with an own business - I have one. Nothing wrong with working for someone else - I had to do that before I was able to provide myself with my own business. But these kids should stop talking about shit they know nothing about.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
That is the most perfect description I have ever seen.
juddshanks 5y ago
If you don't have the self discipline, intelligence and commitment to succeed in a wage paid job in a field you're passionate about, you're probably not going to succeed working for yourself.
I'd suggest that the logical first step for anyone looking to go out on their own is to work for someone in that industry for at least 4-5 years to develop skills, accumulate contacts and capital.
NeedingAdvice86 5y ago
I doubt that many of the TRPers have the humbleness to run their own business because you see way too many of them who think that they are special snowflakes that KNOW every-fucking-thing in the world at 22 years old.
How many times have you seen some smuck come on about they are some star worker whose greatest isn't appreciated by the stupid\idiot managers, presidents\CEO\owners of some business and these dolts just will not listen to their vast superior knowledge of 22 years and a few courses at University Bumblefuck.
To success at running a business, you have to start with "I hardly know shit but will learn\adapt as quickly as I fucking can and listen to what the consumers need\want".
juddshanks 5y ago
The funny thing is one of the central messages on here is inherently humble; 'you can be a better man if you work at it, and you should do that for yourself'.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Hell fucking yeah. "I'll just start my own business. It'll be a lot easier than working at Subway." No, you dumb fuck. It won't.
Hellrot69 5y ago
Running a business is a 24/7 job without any weekends or holidays. You're not working for yourself, you're working for the customer. This basic idea is something that even larger corporations have been forgetting with the whole hipster PC cuckoldry.
Most who try with the "Imma go rich, screw muh rat race!!1" approach crash and burn within the first three years at most, not just making less money that they would at an office job, but also ending up in debt.
unn4med 5y ago
It’s a lot of mental drain. Subway and minimum wage jobs, a lot of the time, feel like physical drain. Not much mental complexity to it.
Haven’t made a ton online, but believe me, I know what I’m talking about.
MoDuReddit 5y ago
Menial jobs are great to rest your head.
Ansec 5y ago
Some men aren't cut out to run a business. It takes grit, perseverance, and a hell of a lot of charm.
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GEN_GOTHMOG 5y ago
I used to have a 9 - 5 job, now I run my own business.
I prefer being the boss, thank you very much.
havelbrandybuck 5y ago
Society is a zero net sum game. Not everyone can run their own business or make six figures a year. Society is realistic and about getting by.
I'm enjoying my life by living by the principles of avoiding all debt possible and living within my means, and six figures savings cash by 25 and no debt is a good start.
People want a quick fix and there's no shortcuts in financial progression for most adults. Be frugal and be smart.
Merica911 5y ago
No offense, but did you just lectured us in being self employed and not have a 9-5 and you don't have just that?
All you are is a weekend Warrior. You're not in the deep end like I am with owning a company so I'll give my two cents.
Your work never ends.
What are weekends? Friday nights? Monday mornings? It doesn't make a fucking difference.
Take a vacation all you want. You'll just won't get paid.
Did I mention your work never ends? Even though in the summer time I'll pay golf at 2pm on a Wednesday I'm still taking phone calls.
Your retirement. Your health insurance. Your taxes all falls on you.
Over time and holiday pay is not even in your Vocabulary.
And get this. I love every second of it. Every once in a while I purposely dress down with a hat flip back to just remind everyone I'm the fucking boss and no one can fire me.
My comment was just a scratch on the surface of what self employed / small business / or big is like. But it not to take lightly and lecture people on if you haven't done it.
Being RP is having enough "fuck you" money not being self employed. I do admire your dick measurement post but there's no correlation of having your own business and being RP. It's about being independent.
The first 5 years in my company I had to reply on so much other companies giving my shit work (for my company) and I had to have a roommate to help with the rent that if you had to follow my path you wouldn't feel like it's the RP thing to do.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
Produce value and you'll be compensated accordingly to what you produce. But don't put your eggs in one basket, not many horse carriage repair men out there. Hope you can work on Tesla's and cars of the same nature.
​
Book smarts usually only work well with great work ethic and motivation/principles. 80k working until 65 is fine for some. Others may want 200k+ a year working until 38. 100k isn't shit in some place. its all relative.
Flawless44 5y ago
That's not really true because not all costs and benefits are accounted for.
For example, disposing waste normally has a cost, but with some creativity you can dump it in the lake for free without breaking any laws.
You moved your cost over to someone or something else.
The same can be done with revenue.
You can get people to pay you more than what your product is reasonably worth by taking advantage of their lack of knowledge, gullibility, and also just outright lying to them about what your product can do, but being careful never to put it down on paper. Also not illegal.
And that's how people sell 300$ tea that cures cancer, and million dollar time shares that you can never use.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
I"m not sure what point you are trying to make in response to my original reply.
Flawless44 5y ago
Producing value does not mean that you will be compensated accordingly.
There is a lot of work between production and compensation.
How you handle that work will make the difference between having everything stolen from you (legally) or making far more money than your product is worth (also legally)
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
I still don't understand what you're getting at, sorry if i assumed my target audience weren't complete idiots. a product is only worth what people will pay for it. A penny is worth 5 cents if people will pay it. That is how value is determined, by the market place. Not what Flawless44 thinks its worth
Flawless44 5y ago
What I'm getting at is that the market place can be manipulated to believe that your item is worth a variety of different values.
The "correct" value ends up being dependent on who was more convincing.
That's how you can end up finding a bargain, or getting ripped off, and this is something that is readily taken advantage of by market players.
So you can produce value all you want, and then get ripped off. The end result being, that you produced something, and were not compensated accordingly, which is contrary to your statement.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
I think you missed the word "value". You need to produce Value, you can work your ass off 12 hours a day making back scrathers but if the market doesn't value them then yes you will be broke. And yes value changes with market conditions and innovations, which i addressed in my original reply.
​
Flawless44 5y ago
The word value is in there.
And I'm not talking about changing market conditions. I'm talking about intentional legal deception.
Like lying about your GPA, or your degree/ work experience for extra compensation. You're not creating any more value, but you are being compensated more.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
Well that is fraudulent (not necessarily in the legal sense), i'm sure a job won't last if lack the experience to actually do it. But i see where you are coming from. You can also win the lottery, which involves creating no value. It was a general statement that is generally true and i think most people would agree upon, but as always nothing is absolute and there will always be deviations and special circumstances that may go against it.
​
Homeless people make money on the streets by begging and actually producing negative value. but we know that that is not the norm or generally a lifestyle people wouldn't want.
9BrUaN3PKNxboWgP 5y ago
Interesting note on Teslas and new high tech cars. Articles I’ve read in Mechanics / Car & Driver suggest that mechanics today have some overlap in skills with the IT industry.
Compeliminator 5y ago
electric cars basically consist of a series wound dc motor a battery and a system to vary the amount of power to the motor. any good auto mechanic that has a basic understanding of electricity wouldnt have a problem
Andgelyo 5y ago
100k is BANK in most places.
Far_Working 5y ago
Hong Kong? New York? San Fransisco?
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
Is it really though? i mean 20 years ago sure. The new "six figures" which was deemed as pretty successful the past few decades seems to be more like $200-250k these days due to increased taxes and inflation.
Andgelyo 5y ago
Maybe it’s because I grew up poor in urban New Jersey. As a 28 year old, who just started my career in health care (occupational therapist), with massive loans to pay off, I would be on cloud 9 to make that much.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
i mean 100k is nothing to snub your nose at. it just doesn't have the same spending value as it did back in our parents days. Add in a middle class mortgage, a car payment, TAXES, retirement savings and it goes pretty quick. but as always it depends on your area. 100k in San Franciso/LA/New York/Hawaii is much different from 100k in Detroit or middle america
Camjd10 5y ago
This topic reminds me of Herbert Marcuse, who wrote the book of the late '60s, The One Dimensional Man. Marcuse explains how our society is built off of numerous societal apparatuses which influence the paths we walk along. It's tough to break away from our institutionalized society- and the 9-5 which so symbolizes its working culture. I think that self-awareness is the most important skill to learn in this regard. If you want to be apart of the capitalist economy, and enjoy its many luxuries than a 9-5 job is most likely going to be your fate. If you attempt self-employment, know that failure may come to your doorstep. However, if you don't need the everyday trappings of the 21st century, maybe you can take pleasure in either a subsistence lifestyle or something roughly similar; earning a small wage in a job you enjoy.
​
My point is that in life there are many paths to take, however, we have difficulty realizing that they exist. As David Foster Wallace points out- fish don't realize they are swimming in water. Neither do we recognize the industrial/societal apparatus which influences our decisions and our very lifestyle.
-saltymangos- 5y ago
Different strokes for different folks. Some people, including myself, do not feel “right” working for another person for their life.
You may like it, but others may not like it. I understand where you are coming from, from for me personally, I cannot and will not work for someone else’s company for my entire career.
Some people want to make a name for themselves, be different from the hundreds of thousands of other people who work under someone. Some people are just wired differently. You, for example, are wired to work under people. You like it. I, for one, hate working under people. I will not do it. I will find another way to make money. Whether that be creating my own company or business, I will achieve it.
beginner_ 5y ago
You will always work for someone else. Be it your boss/CEO/shareholders or your costumers.
For me the main point of this post is that entrepreneurship is greatly romanticized. You are not free just because you don't have a direct boss. You will need the social skills to work with your boss or costumers. If the boss sucks you can leave, if the costumer sucks you can only leave if you have enough other work and you are not bound by contract.
Chaddeus_Rex 5y ago
Working corporate is like the military, you are someone elses bitch.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
So what is this magical business where you have no clients, business or customers handing you money and telling you what they want? Lottery perhaps?
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magx01 5y ago
Ego. Not saying it's good or bad. It often motivates people to do amazing things. But it's definitely ego.
-saltymangos- 5y ago
True, but I just feel something inside of me, like an urge/drive, to do something amazing and great. It sounds egotistical as hell, but I just “feel” like I’m programmed differently.
EPArt 5y ago
Exactly you only have one life might as well try.
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
Looky here folks the second coming of Jesus Christ himself!
DownyGall 5y ago
Yeah there can be something just not right being a cog in someone else’s machine - even if you are high up in the machine.
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
A house slave is still a slave. A Queen bee's mate is still her servant.
IvyExcess 5y ago
The drones die after mating with the queen. There's an apt metaphor for ya
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
That's even worse! They can't even enjoy the rise to the top before they drop! Akin to "If you spend all of your life earning money there won't be any time left to enjoy it."
UpperRedSide 5y ago
First time I've heard that phrase, but yeah. The "working under someone" part is kind of irrelevant to me, since I'm a leadership type position and my boss is barely bossy. He has his job, I have mine. It's a non-issue.
ConservativelyRight 5y ago
sarcasm?
Look, you clearly like your job, and that's really awesome. Seriously, good for you. But \~90-95% of people don't like their jobs. I think those are the sort of people that are saying/believing this line of logic. That said, this poster you've responded to also has a point -- there's a moral aspect to being a "wage slave." I know it sounds lame and cliche to use the term, but it's scary how true it is that, until you've hit even just your "survival number" (for myself I've calculated this out to half a mill in today's dollars for me to make it to 80yo), you kind of are a slave. You will not eat, you will not drink, you will not have a roof over your head if you do not comply with the demands of your employer. That's...kind of a fucked up situation to be in, when you think about it. And it makes people angry, I suppose, that they've essentially been born into a situation of forced labor for another person just to survive in the world. I think it would feel more "right" to guys like the above poster if he was working, but growing his own food, raising his own livestock, building his own house, cooking his own meals -- he would feel good because everything that comes from his hands is his. Personally, I don't think it's any coincidence most human beings feel this way -- this is the natural order of things. When 80-90% of your productions are being taken by others, it's quite demoralizing.
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TheStoicCrane 5y ago
On a related note, if you search for the word "worker", "employee", or "labourer on the online Webster's Dictionary the term "slave" is a synonym.
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TylerDurdenHimself 5y ago
My name gives away my opinion on this but I'm open to hear the argument from the other side. Every person should consider what lifestyle will work for them.
jewishsupremacist88 5y ago
nothing wrong w/ the 9 to 5 but it wont get you rich. as a 9-5 corporate guy, all i can say is that i have no interest in running/owning a business after what ive seen. too much BS unless you're in something really, really lucrative
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
it can be nice to "punch out" and leave at work at work right?
jewishsupremacist88 5y ago
that, but its nice not having my networth or compensation tied to how well the business is doing..and these days many businesses are not doing good at all.
crespo_modesto 5y ago
I do the 9-5 now, or something like that I have some freedom. I'm personally down for the whole run your own business/no cap(only your own eg. profitability) but also what if you don't have ideas to make... As a developer it's nice not having to find gigs... but I also don't want to just code all day too where I hop from one project to the next, starts to get dull. It's not like your baby that you're working on. Also building a business/service I think is a better move for the whole scaling/cap thing, after a while you have people manage the businesses for you and you can afford more freedom/not tied to a schedule.... but how to get there... money, where from, possibly/probably 9-5 first.
My opinion still poor, debt from school, socially inept guy
edit: I do agree about the sentiment on courses though, some of it I could see, but some of it does seem spammy like "you can sell courses too"
xcrazytx 5y ago
I don't have a problem with the 9-5 thing or ppl who do it but I worked finance for a year and couldn't take it. The office politics, rush hour traffic, working to live. I went to travel and ended up working for a remote company, on my laptop. We are legit, 120 employees all remote and I got in early. We are not scammy we make real money. I now travel the globe full time and work 2-3 hours a day. Making 60-70K a year. So yes saying "fuck this Shit" and leaving that lifestyle was the best thing I've ever done. For some it is hell and not a fit
mamaknulare 5y ago
I don’t enjoy what I do at the moment. Been saving and investing a long time now.
I will try to find what I like doing and in the meanwhile earn and save as much money as possible while not taking any loans. So I will always be safe and not have to worry about money and in a few of years I can quit or work less and still have a similar lifestyle. For me it seems realistic but I have been working on this for a long time.
xtuff 5y ago
This post reeks of neckbeard. no chance this post is 100% truthful .
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Well, I obviously can't post a pic, because doxxing, but I'm usually clean shaven. I do, however, rock a ten day stubble on the occasion.
Which part is hard to believe? Graduated early? Getting a job in my field of study early? Actually liking my job?
You know what reeks of neckbeard pal? Calling people who are doing better than you liars. You abide by the toxic "If I can't do it, neither can they" mindset that usually accompanies mom's basement tendies eating gamers.
stephcurryftw 5y ago
People usually bash on things they haven't fully experienced. They are very quick to dismiss things they don't understand and because they already have biases toward them.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
They condemn what they don't understand.
Viquol 5y ago
Enjoy being a wage slave fucking boomer you arent free if you dont control ur income
UpperRedSide 5y ago
But, uh, that's the thing. I do control my income. For starters, everyone wants to hire an ASE certified tech with with years of tech and supervisory experience. And two, I've built passive income out of my hobbies. Did you miss that? It's right in the post? Or is this poorly conveyed sarcasm?
circlingldn 5y ago
Dont listen to that 4chan autist mate
Viquol 5y ago
People should try bulid a online business when working an 9-5 otherwise your stuck trading hours of your life doing something you dont want to do the point being trading time for money should never be a long term option
dontbethatguynow 5y ago
This is one of the most poorly written run on sentences i ever seen.
EL_Miore 5y ago
No one on their deathbed ever says "damn, I wish I made more money"
daffy_duck233 5y ago
You just won bullshit of the day sir.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
Really? Well, I've never been on my deathbed before, so I wouldn't know, but I kinda like money.
TheStoicCrane 5y ago
I watched my father die on his and work/money were absolutely meaningless from his view. Time is the most valuable currency in the world. Get that twisted and you risk pissing it away climbing an invisible ladder for nothing.
magx01 5y ago
Google the top ten regrets of the dying and take that shit to heart. Modern society is focused on the wrong things.
dongpal 5y ago
the thing is you need an high income skill. if you are able to teach it yourself or go to some shitty school to learn is irrelevant, but I can tell you that most skills which give you high income are not some bullshit teached in public. most good knowledge is behind the doors, where you have to pay lots of money for it or know the right people.
as I live in germany, and not work-or-die america, I can be workless as long as I want and learn the juicy high income gainz whenever I want.
ificouldificould 5y ago
Eh, hop on investopedia and start watching markets. Get a couple thousand in there and learn to trade. 6% return for just dumping in index funds, upwards of 10 to 15% if you learn and are half decent at market analysis. The skill ceiling is high no doubt but the knowledge base is very attainable over a couple years with a handful of textbooks and internet videos.
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dongpal 5y ago
so you just agreed with me but started your post with "eh,"
ElementArrow 5y ago
He's saying having a high income skill isnt a huge secret, the info is on the public web. So he didn't agree with ya.
dongpal 5y ago
yeah, thats for theory. but people who did something are the rich ones, not the one who know a lot of free stuff. and after you achieved something, you gained special knowledge which isnt written everywhere on the web, because you dont write every small step there. just as you know all the basics about women and approaching them, but actually talking to them needs so much more practical knowledge. and thats the knowledge you need, through experience. and the only way to get it is to do yourself, but also to have a mentor. and these mentors are rare.
StopGaming1234 5y ago
The knowledge is there, but you need to know where exactly to find it. No one is gonna be like "Click here and learn this skill to become rich" unless it's a scam.
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ificouldificould 5y ago
I learned by searching r stocks and following the faq. Not exactly rocket science. Then you learn the Lingo and do more specific searches.
_Tactleneck_ 5y ago
Getting out of “the grind” and stepping into the “furnace” of being self-employed is not for the weak of mind or spirit. The grass is always greener, until your bank account has been overdrafted so long they’re threatening to close it. Not saying don’t try to be self-employed or an entrepreneur, but the reality is so crazy difficult, that if you can picture yourself happy doing anything else, do that instead.
killabeesindafront 5y ago
Either you work on your own dream or someone elses
VasiliyZaitzev 5y ago
Guys interested in this topic will enjoy the CorporateLand series on the AskTRP sidebar. I have it on strong authority that that guy knows his shit.
kylerosa21 5y ago
This is a proper smack upside the head some people needed. I kicked that mindset before I decided to switch to a 4 year university from community college and have not regretted it since. I have tons of connections and should easily land a job as a result.
UpperRedSide 5y ago
There you go. Make yourself potentially valuable to a lot of different employers. You'll have your pic of workplaces that way.
nabosch 5y ago
Nothing wrong with the old 9-5.
BillyBones8 5y ago
There is everything wrong with it.
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StopGaming1234 5y ago
While money is certainly nice to have, it's not everything. Some people get way too obsessed with it. I'm not saying it doesn't matter, infact in the current system you need to make a lot to live comfortably. I'm not sure about America though since I live in europe.
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Here in germany I could aswell just not work and still survive.
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I just want to say that people who think that being self-employed is key to life are delusional. It takes a lot of work, time and luck to get into a decent position. Most self-employed successful high earning people work 60-80 hours a week. I value my time much more than money.