After having more or less spun plates for the last 18 months, I've come to the conclusion that a healthy LTR situation is more conducive to the stable happiness of a man than having multiple sex partners or engaging in regular one night stands.
That said, it is better to spin plates than to be involuntarily celibate.
Involuntary celibacy < bad LTR < one night stands < spinning plates < good LTR
The reason why long term relationships are preferable to spinning plates and one night stands is based on the price and quality of sex in them. With a one night stand, the quality of sex can't be guaranteed, while the price can often be high: My average one night stand consisted of a tinder match, some witty banter, some more banter over text, maybe a phone call, meeting them in person in public, circling back to my house, often dealing with some LMR and ASD, and finally getting to it. Sometimes I got very lucky and there was a low investment night with a hot girl, but these happen months apart.
The quality of the sex, too, was nothing in a ONS compared to the quality of the sex I have with my girlfriend because of the lack of sexual familiarity that you have in a long term relationship.
The investment required to get sex in a good relationship is laughably lower than it is via a one night stand or even a plate: “Still on for tonight at 7?” Done.
There are a handful of rules that are important to follow to cultivate a healthy long term relationship. These are not meant as absolutes but as general guidelines which mitigate the major pitfalls in relationships.
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Do not cohabitate. (I will assume I don't have to tell you to not marry) There isn't any way that cohabitating with a woman will increase the attraction between you two. It will make it much more difficult for you to use constant dread game to keep your woman in line, and will altogether erode the psychological autonomy you have when you have your own space and time away from your girl.
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Spend money on her proportional to the value she adds to your life. Does she bend over backwards to make you happy? Take her out to dinner. Does she scramble at the opportunity to fix your clothes or rub your back? Buy her a flower. Never invest in her financially prior to her providing value. Under $5 doesn't count, i.e., ice cream / coffee.
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Do not ask for or promise sexual exclusivity. You are always free to bang other girls (ideally you won't want to, though) and she is technically free to bang other guys (ideally she wont want to). If your relationship is strong, you will tell her “I am not seeing other girls right now.” If she eventually demands exclusivity or else she'll leave, that's when you make a calculated decision whether to bail or to commit. The primary reason for not committing is the constant dread game that it integrates into the relationship. When she knows at any moment you could be out banging another girl, without guilt, it prompts her to 1. Be very sexually generous with you while you're together, 2. Be on her best behavior so as to keep you emotionally invested and less likely to sleep with someone else.
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Never give her negativity or toxicity. If you always treat her with respect (teasing and farting on her is not disrespect), you will always have the upper hand in any future disagreements. If she becomes toxic, she will realize she started it and should eventually recognize that and apologize. Never giving a girl negativity avoids a massive world of drama that negative people have to live in. If you are always positive, and she is still negative towards you, without apologizing afterwards and making amends, go no-contact or simply say “Don't contact me again, we're done.”
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Do not see her every day. My personal preference is to see the girl I am dating twice a week. Each time, she stays the night at my place and we spend approximately 12 to 18 hours together. Seeing a girlfriend every single day is an attraction killer and shouldn't be done really at any point of the relationship. You need time to miss her, and you need her to miss you. This is why I don't travel with girls. Day 3 and I will already hate them.
- Text game is strictly logistics and jokes. Never discuss emotions or the nature of the relationship over text. Ideally, avoid discussing the nature of the relationship at any time. Occasionally it must be done, but this should occur very rarely. You should be banging her 75 times for every time there is a conversation about “where we stand” or “where things are going.”
Feedback is appreciated as these are not convictions but hunches.
LT;DR: A good relationship is the system of female interaction which is most conducive to your well-being as a redpilled man. This is based on the quality and price of sex in a relationship versus ONS and plates.
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[deleted] 7y ago
To me, TRP is essentially the process of learning that everything is temporary. So therefore one is always developing a mindset and lifestyle to make the most out of that fact. Its depressing and relieving at the same time for someone new.
[deleted] 7y ago
Sounds more like the concept of impermanence in Buddhism than anything to do with sexual strategy.
[deleted] 7y ago
Think about it a little harder man. I think its pretty easy to see anyway.
When a beta comes here he learns: True love is fake. Unconditional love is fake. Friends with the opposite sex is a joke. No one likes you for anything but what you can give them. Your value is all that people care about you, not who you are or your 'personality'.
It may be similar to that but it seems like if someone realizes nothing is permanent in this world and really takes it to heart, all of the principles in trp manifest. No oneitis, abundance mentality, outcome independency, etc. You realize its only ever 'your turn' with a woman and nothing more. Any buddies you have you can drop at the flip aof a coin if need be and it wont bother you. Eventually you completely understand a woman's motives and thoughts, and you surpass every other bluebell who still thinks he can do abc to get women. Everything is crystal clear. You dgaf what people think because they are fleeting anyway.
This is how I interpret trp into one ideal a little better than: Don't give more than 0 fucks for anything in life other than yourself.
LosingMoneyAllDay 7y ago
I came to this conclusion myself approximately two years ago. The rules set out by OP are necessary. In my place of residence, cohabitation after 1 year means common law marriage too. DO NOT MOVE IN TOGETHER.
If you have trouble selling it, try "we both are adults who need our own space, if we constantly see each other we will grow tired of one another".
That will buy you more time, but sooner or later they all end in either marriage (you bent) or a breakup (you wouldn't bend).
ihateyouguys 7y ago
I don't quite see the distinction between what you described and spinning plates
[deleted] 7y ago
My understanding is that spinning plates is essentially having multiple fuckbuddies, whereas a LTR involves spending the majority of your time with one person, who you do things with other than have sex.
VasiliyZaitzev 7y ago
Actually, the ideal RP lifestyle would include multiple open (on the man's side) LTRs. I pretty much have that with two of my girls, as well as a couple others in the stable. When it works is tres cool.
IVIaskerade 7y ago
Pledging yourself to one woman is stupid because at the end of the day, no matter how NAWALT she is, AWALT and familiarity breeds laziness. With multiple relationships the women never lose that competitive edge.
Hakametal 7y ago
Surely though, there are ways to implement Dread within a committed relationship?
IVIaskerade 7y ago
I never said there weren't.
Wumpus1 7y ago
There is nothing better than a hot girlfriend with an IUD and no STD's. Condom's become obsolete!
There are some ways to get pretty close to a winning situation haha
IVIaskerade 7y ago
Of course there is. There's being secure enough in yourself that you don't seek the validation of strangers over the internet.
IVIaskerade 7y ago
No, the ideal RP relationship involves as many women as possible in a harem, kept in a stand-alone building in your palace grounds, and tended by eunuchs (or nu-males, it's the same thing).
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interestedplayer 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.7536
[deleted] 7y ago
If you only have sex with a girl once every time you see her, you might have low T levels.
Trying to control whether a girl you're dating is seeing other guys on the side is a complete waste of time and emotional energy. I have been with many girls who weren't single. I have better things to worry about than making sure a girl I see is "loyal" to me. We're not talking about marriage we're talking about an open relationship, stupid ass.
joh2141 7y ago
Title is a bit too absolute in what is a discussion/opinion post though I don't disagree with a lot of the points you mention. I find myself agreeing with many of them except the ones like regarding if in an ideal relationship you won't want to bang another person. This I feel like is just your biased interpretation at the situation. If you walk by a really hot chick that is irresistible, you're going to want to bang her no matter how good the relationship between you and your gf is. The only way you're not is if you have an unhealthy obsession with her in which case you guys are both either codependent on each other or you're into her more than she's into you. A perfect marriage/LTR/sex partner doesn't stop you from lusting after other people too.
If life ever taught me anything, it's not always about how much hotter is the girl but rather newer pussy (I don't mean young or anything pedos do. I mean like new to YOU reinforcing the 'many fish in the sea.') is always more appealing.
Bigcasanova 7y ago
Pretty good post overall. In my ltr, I am conditionally exclusive. I have a traditional woman that cleans and bends over backwards to please me and be the archetypal good woman . BecAuse of this she is actively earning my exclusivity . She knows if she starts to become a naggy bitch or doesn't take care of herself or doesn't make every effort to satisfy my sexual needs , that'd be the end of it .
I enjoy the ltr thoroughly , it adds a lot of value to my life , however I'd probably jump at the chance to start banging some strange , which she knows I'd have no problem getting . I believe this is the proper dynamic for a successful ltr . Because she knows I'd just keep on being me and improving myself if she left or did any of the former , it motivates her to always be better . True outcome independence in this case . Ltr continues = great . Easy sex , other benefits with very minor negatives ( not fucking tons of different chicks ). Ltr ends = I just spin plates
Hakametal 7y ago
Dread. Your comment can be summed up with one word: Dread.
You are obviously high SMV compared to her... and you are instilling natural Dread into your relationship.
Bigcasanova 7y ago
1-2 points favoring the Man is optimal , and other factors help . This woman comes from a very traditional background with strong father figure and feminine mother . Still no such thing as unicorns, just ideal conditions
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Auvergnat 7y ago
I like that disclaimer. Very honest of you.
I like your post. It seems to me that it all agrees pretty well with red pill theory. Particularly, it seems very compatible with HSP's
Holy Scriptureguide to managing your bitches. I'm going to bookmark it for when I decide it's time for LTR.Just a comment about point 4 ("Never give her negativity or toxicity"). Women don't want to feel good, they want to feel. So while having a negative attitude is always a bad idea, giving her some negative feelings is not necessarily a bad one. Women feed on drama so feed her some a bit.
Also, I realize the title is strongly opinionated, but I am asking fellow TRPers not to downvote this post simply because you disagree with the title. Judge it on the content.
dr_warlock 7y ago
That piece was from my earlier days, just a wee lad in the manosphere. Solid points, but needs a rewrite.
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Cause drama without being 'dramaful'
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
I remember reading that piece and having that moment of realization oh, that's why that happened
One of the pillars of my personal RP education, so thank you for that.
Auvergnat 7y ago
To me it's such a good fundational redpill post, that I would be very interested to know from its author what needs to be amended.
That goes without saying. And actually, women are designed to create drama out of thin air so you don't quite need to create any. It's enough to just wait for it to happen & not be so quick to de-escalate the situation (aka "being appeasing", aka "what I have been doing all my blue pill life and was fucking proud of it despite it fucking up my relationships but was too blind to see the connection")
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dr_warlock 7y ago
and /u/Auvergnat
More about style and adding practicality.
Stay tuned for next time on Dragon Ball Z...
[deleted] 7y ago
Easiest drama-without-dramaful trick: radio silence. So underrated.
Atticus_Crowley 7y ago
Depends on the girl. My last ex decided we should split after I went 2 days radio silent after an incident with her. I was gonna split with her regardless (and she probably picked up on that) but she took the silent treatment really personally.
sfstexan 7y ago
If you were going to split with her regardless she probably split with you because of this. Not because of the radio silence.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yes. As shallow and trivial as it sounds, a good way to get a girl to feel something negative without actually being negative is to read her text message without responding. Occasionally not reciprocating an "I love you" can stir her emotions as well.
Every once and a while, cancel on her and give a reason like "I'm gonna take it easy tonight."
Being a bit physically distant for an hour. Walking out of the room suddenly. Buying candy and not sharing it with her. Totally random stuff like that keeps a girl guessing and avoids letting yourself "settle" into her mind as predictable and boring.
While not toxic or negative, these communicate to her in that moment: You are NOT that important to me. You're not my princess.
[deleted] 7y ago
Lol at buying candy and not sharing - fucking genius mr machiavelli
Entrefut 7y ago
"Sorry babe, these skittles fit perfectly into my macros."
Ozymanberg 7y ago
This is why feminists have us in such a bad light. How ruthless can you get?
Nay2003 7y ago
buying food and not sharing man get on my level
TheWaterTemple 7y ago
Buying candy and not sharing is ruthless now.. GTFO, along with all these pussies upvoting you.
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xinihil 7y ago
machiavellianism, psychopathy, and sarcasmisin.
theONE843663 7y ago
If you girl smokes weed, get weed and start smoking without passing it to her. Just go on with it. She's gon look at you with the weird face like "wtf you doing" face, and you gon catch it in the corner of your eyes' peripheral vision, but just dgaf and keep Smoking till you done. Then after, tell her to fetch you a beer cuz you got cottonmouth. Then when she's like wtf and increasing drama, causally tell her she never asked for the blunt and stay indifferent and then ask her again if she's getting you the beer or not. She refuses, just casually walk out the door if she asks where tf you going, casually tell her that you going to get different beer (cuz you feel like drinking ipf tonite). Then you disappear and don't return the night don't respond to texts. Come home at 4am and pass out on the couch with your clothes on. If you did it all right and held frame, and you've got a history of holding frame, you'll most likely wake up to a BJ. True story bruh!
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xx69bootyhunter69xx 7y ago
thanks man, I haven't slept all night due to insomnia and gave an exam which went really bad, this comment was the first thing I'm seeing today that made me laugh...
theONE843663 7y ago
U welcome but I still don know how I got -45 like I'm fucking surprised AF rn. People usually like my shit. And this Actually happened no joke.
romantictheory 7y ago
ok but real talk can we acknowledge that this is actually some pretty good satire?
theONE843663 7y ago
Wow....when u word something so badly people think it's Satire... I'm dead serious this happened in real life but I'm not able to convey the emotion of the situation properly.
tekende 7y ago
You're hitting a blunt right now, aren't you
theONE843663 7y ago
I was blown AF on some dabs that day I hit like a good half gram or more to myself of some real consecrated shit.
cleftscout 7y ago
That was possibly the worst thing I've ever read on this sub.
theONE843663 7y ago
I don't get it maybe the way I worded it was bad but this actually happened irl dude. I dunno how you guys think it's crap.
cleftscout 7y ago
You write like a mentally retarded child and equate getting a blow job from an inebriated slag to living an RP life. Fucktard.
theONE843663 7y ago
Relax not everyone likes to write like Shakespeare.
aDrunkenWhaler 7y ago
^ This... is a good reminder of why giving up weed 3 years ago was probably the best decision I ever made.
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theONE843663 7y ago
Woah how the hell did I get soooooo many downvotes? You guys killed my fucking Karma wtf man.
Fartfacethrowaway 7y ago
I thought it was a good story but the way it was conveyed may have been a bit too dirtbag-like for some people.
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theONE843663 7y ago
I ain't stoner lmao I only smoke like once a week.
xx69bootyhunter69xx 7y ago
wait why the hell are you buying candy? Do you have an excessive abundance of testosterone levels and want to reduce them for some God-knows-what reason? Stop taking sugar and never ever give yourself a chance to consume it (including the "just this one time" excuse).
I especially expected better from you since your post was damn good (although I'm not fond of LTR's, your post seemed very realistic) and I inferred you to be an experienced member of the TRP.
purduered 7y ago
Pretty sure Marshawn Lynch would blow his skittles all down your girls mouth. Calories in, calories out. You can eat candy all you want if you are doing everything else right.
[deleted] 7y ago
My diet is about 90 percent clean, 10 percent junk. Additionally, fine dark chocolate is a hobby of mine. Currently 13% BFP.
Fartfacethrowaway 7y ago
Gotta be <10% or you are a complete loser /s
xx69bootyhunter69xx 7y ago
Dark chocolate and naturally sweet things (fruits and dates etc) aren't what I was talking about. You and I and most people on TRP know that they're good for testosterone levels. I was talking about the junk food that's candy.
Testosterone decreases after ingestion of sugar (glucose)
You're heavily underestimating the effects of sugar. Administering only 75 grams of sugar (just 6 tablespoon of sugar) reduced the testosterone levels of all men in this study significantly, and 15% of them became hypogonadal just 2 hours after it was administered. I don't know why the hell I got downvoted. Its effects are too serious to be taken even in mild amounts.
[deleted] 7y ago
You got downvoted for your harsh attitude probably more than the information you provided.
ex_addict_bro 7y ago
Solid shit, dude. See also BlackDragon's blog. That's how it is, have an upvote. Aspies gonna hate.
[deleted] 7y ago
He's a stud. I love his podcasts.
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[deleted] 7y ago
It's obvious that you didn't read the post.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I wrote a post you might like.
http://archive.is/HJMAZ
The definition of beta is sexual scarcity. Banging one girl regularly and other girls on the side is sexual abundance.
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[deleted] 7y ago
The average top 20% guy can't sleep with attractive females for the first time by literally just saying "tonight at 7?"
Gekko463 7y ago
So when's your wedding and subsequent divorce raping?
"Sexual familiarity" just means the novelty and thrill is gone and time to move on.
It's obvious that you've run out of game if you're ready to settle down.
[deleted] 7y ago
Idiot doesn't read article he's attempting to criticize.
Get better at sex.
xx69bootyhunter69xx 7y ago
don't bother with them man, these are clearly the dudes who come here to mentally masturbate and show off how much of the sigma-Brad-Pitt-type-lone-wolves they are (uh don't mind me using Brad Pitt as a reference now, I know it's a bit... outdated)
Gekko463 7y ago
Yeah, my number is in the hundreds at 53 and I'm still hitting that 25 year old ass boy. Married a unicorn once for 4 years. Lived with one for 5. Novelty and thrill gone for both after year two.
Get better at not being a kept beta, boy.
[deleted] 7y ago
When I said long term relationships, I'm talking about months, not years. We probably have differing ideas of what an LTR means. That might be a useful clarification.
You sound great. Probably lots of red pill wisdom. Only complaint is you didn't read my post before criticizing it. I explicitly say "I shouldn't have to tell you to not get married."
Gekko463 7y ago
Months, I can stand. But not exclusive. I have kept steady plates in rotation for as long as 9 months since divorce.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
See your gf that much or spin some plates.
[deleted] 7y ago
I'm gonna disagree. I'm in my early 40s and have been multi-dating since I was in college. I've had many MLTRs and have two right now. But I always spin plates and always will.
A single LTR is a bad idea. And why would you want to bang only one broad anyway?
BoyWhoreWithASword 7y ago
Having an LTR doesn't mean you can't spin plates or have side pussy.
[deleted] 7y ago
Time constraints. Other projects and interests. To me, a relationship is like a toilet. It serves to manage a bodily function so that I can be in a good mindset to do other things.
N3sh108 7y ago
I don't know man. I found your post mostly solid but I can't agree to this.
Being in a relationship with someone you have good synergy is definitely more than just a toilet.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Trp isnt a goal, its a strategy
Tokyogaikoku44 7y ago
Some good points, but I think this may not be possible.
[deleted] 7y ago
Be attractive and confident unto savagery and it just sort of happens.
Tokyogaikoku44 7y ago
Yeah, the confident part needs a lot of work. It's okay.
Tokyogaikoku44 7y ago
I'm attractive, but I don't like all the psychotic games. I prefer loneliness.
[deleted] 7y ago
Go on Facebook now and message the prettiest girl you know "You are an ugly cunt hahaha." Don't respond to her afterwards. Start practicing not caring. Breaking through the "am I doing this right" mindset, the "how can I be cool?" mindset and adopt the "The world is my video game and I do whatever the fuck seems fun" mindset.
Edit: I overstated my point but I'll leave it up anyway.
Tokyogaikoku44 7y ago
I don't think I'll get away with that one and I don't feel comfortable with that-- long story. The approach makes sense. Red pill theory is new in some respects to me and in others it's in line with my own observations about females. Will see how much of it I can implement. Will use what suits me. My default is not letting a woman dominate me socially at all. I'm willing to not have a girlfriend for that to happen... . Most my buddies who have been married have been destroyed.
Mildly_Sociopathic 7y ago
Erm, what? Pretty sure you have it mixed up.
[deleted] 7y ago
In a ONS, you don't have the kind of sexual familiarity that you have in a relationship.
Gunnilingus 7y ago
He meant your phrasing. The way you wrote it could be interpreted as implying that there is a lack of sexual familiarity in long term relationships. I understood what you meant but your grammar is jacked up in that sentence.
[deleted] 7y ago
You understood it because you can think.
The grammar here is perfect. "..the lack of sexual familiarity" is describing the subject of the sentence, which is "the quality of sex in a ONS."
Edit:
Actually the sentence can be interpreted:
[lack of sexual familiarity] [that you have in a long term relationship.] (incorrect)
or
[lack of] [sexual familiarity that you have in a long term relationship.] (correct)
The ambiguity is admittedly something I'd fix if I cared more.
hugaddiction 7y ago
All well said, and I had not heard the term "dread game", but I have been a fan of this shit since I figured it out at some point in my youth. No doubt from suffering on the wrong side of it.
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deeeeekay 7y ago
Ideally is a good one LTR, and one or two plates. I've been seeing a girl, and shes completely fine, even open with me sleeping other women while being exclusive to me. Unfortunately, I had to drop one plate who was getting too familiar (too much shit testing) so I'm at just the LTR now.
I've been alone, I've spun plates, I've had sparse sex, and I've done the exclusive LTR. Where I am is by faaar the ideal situation, my LTR knows I've got girls that are in queue if I decide to dip at any point.
[deleted] 7y ago
I used to spin a plate or two in addition to my LTR. Maybe it's winter, but my desire is lower now. Come summer I'd imagine my mood will shift and I'll be on tinder again.
[deleted] 7y ago
I think at this point you are redefining LTR to make your point. Seeing her twice a week? Keeping other women around??? If you are engaging with other women, you are simply spinning one plate for longer than the other plates if you know what I am saying.
Basically you have only made it more clear how traditional LTRs aren't worth it for the unplugged high value male.
Tre_Walker 7y ago
WTF? Is this a thing now? I read the sidebar but...?
[deleted] 7y ago
I should write a post sometime about farting on girls. It's the best.
Entropy-7 7y ago
Do you go for the "Dutch Oven"?
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[deleted] 7y ago
I must have missed that entry of this. Heartiste is pure brilliance.
godiebiel 7y ago
Red Pill is not about misogyny. It's about self-respect as a man and human being.
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squidracer 7y ago
I do get tired of spinning plates.. This whole year I've went back and forth from spinning to mgtow, back to spinning.. I'll get fed up so I'll go mgtow, but then I'll get bored so I'll line up dates again (usually online or bars).. Hook up a few times then back to mgtow.
Honestly I just want someone to watch TV with at the end of the day
JacquesNicoleSonne 7y ago
I appreciate you honesty. In the end of the day, that's all we just want
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squidracer 7y ago
Spun plates for over a decade.. It's lost its appeal
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drew967 7y ago
Isnt it possible to instill dread game into a relationship though?
kez88 7y ago
Good points. Cohabitating actually makes it easier to dread IMO. When you're not living together and you go do your own thing for 5-6 hours, she has no idea you're doing your own thing. If she's sitting at home and you're out doing your own thing and she hasn't heard from you, you better believe she's going to be more worried and wonder where you are.
I don't think cohabitating is a good thing though, as you're right that it kills attraction. When I was in a LTR I rarely saw my ex 2 days in a row, as it definitely does kill the attraction.
brinkleybuzz 7y ago
I agree that LTRs can be great if done right. I also like most of your relationship tips. Disagree with this though:
Bad idea because (1) you should never offer any kind of commitment without the explicit promise of sexual exclusivity and (2) a relationship like this is based on a covert contract. Women need firm boundaries otherwise they'll take advantage of the situation.
PabloEscoba 7y ago
LTR with todays cunts? Pathetic. I actually see why I spend more and more of my time in the MGTOW sub. AWALT dude AWALT
Dubalicious 7y ago
How is 'giving up' any less pathetic than enjoying TRP lifestyle while keeping an eye open for high/higher value women?
Hakametal 7y ago
You've literally hit the nail on the head.
PabloEscoba 7y ago
MGTOW can still maintain relations with women, we just dint obsess about pussy like TRP. Read about MGTOW level 3
bumbuff 7y ago
He's not wrong, in a theoretical sense. Alpha males of yesteryear didn't live to be 80. They took on the burdens of the world and died a 'hero' at a younger age.
There's no glory in western civilizations currently, beyond having a high salary.
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10211799107 7y ago
Couldn't have said it any better. 100% this
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[deleted] 7y ago
feels over reals brah, women can create totally different versions of the past and reality in their mind
Returnofthemack3 7y ago
yeah seriously. It's honestly quite shocking. I know a girl that looks favorably on our past when it was completely TERRIBLE. They literally invent their own realities at points
cleftscout 7y ago
Mine does this frequently. She's bonkers and I just ignore her telling me I did something different and stick with my story and a pinch of dread until she cries and accepts it.
Wumpus1 7y ago
That sounds like a pain in the ass. Why not find someone who is actually enjoyable to hang out with?
Pussy is definitely an acceptable answer but really you're only making your life worse by dealing with mediocrity instead of what you really want!
cleftscout 7y ago
I still like her, she's a fun bonkers more than she is bad. On her worst day, friends are still a little jealous of me, if for nothing more than her looks.
[deleted] 7y ago
This post has a lot of upvotes, but in the end what are you really saying?
Since you're saying "don't be exclusive", what you're talking about isn't really a LTR as anybody else would define it. You're talking about a fuckbuddy and the advantages of having a long term fuckbuddy versus one night stands. Well no shit...
If you insist on calling what you're describing a LTR, let me ask you this: Why not have two girls in a relationship like this? Or 3, 4...
interestedplayer 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.2730
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plokman 7y ago
http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/05/19/the-difference-between-friends-with-benefits-and-mtlrs/
[deleted] 7y ago
I think a fuck buddy becomes a relationship when you do things other than have sex, when you go climbing and to galleries and events and you introduce them to your friends and do things together socially, not in order to get sex but because you enjoy her company in a variety of environments.
plokman 7y ago
http://www.blackdragonblog.com/2013/05/19/the-difference-between-friends-with-benefits-and-mtlrs/
Your_Coke_Dealer 7y ago
In my opinion that's half right. For instance, I have one fuck buddy I'll do plenty of other stuff with. Go exploring abandoned buildings or out clubbing, or any kind of adventurous activity. Is it a relationship of sorts? Yeah, not denying that, since it's more than just sex. But it's also not a dating kind of relationship, because I'm not about anything romantic, and I'm also not exclusive with her. I guess "friends with benefits" applies best, since I'm doing things I'd do with a friend, and also fucking her.
[deleted] 7y ago
There are grey zones. The terminology is not terribly important as long as the basic pitfalls are avoided.
[deleted] 7y ago
I wouldn't introduce a girl to my friends who is fucking other guys. And you should also respect your friends more than that. When introducing a girl to your friends it comes with the expectation that they treat her with respect as an extension of their respect to you.
[deleted] 7y ago
Valid point. If I knew she was fucking other guys, no. If it was a mere possibility, then maybe, but at something informal like a party. If I was confident she wasn't sleeping with other guys, I'd be willing to introduce her to actual close friends of mine if I feel like that'd be fun.
103342 7y ago
My personal opinion on this, and the way I have lived my life for many years now: NEVER be sexually exclusive with just one woman. Be constantly fucking other women or alone.
Being sexually exclusive with just one girl is a surefire way to frustration. The power gravitates to her by default (she can replace at any time she wants, you can't).
THIS is the real "redpill" (if it even exists one) to have relationships.
In case you guys haven't noticed the "sexual market" is still good for men, but the "relationship market" is fucked up beyond repair in the short-term. This sort of stuff goes way beyond things you can control yourself, your little list there, besides being too "ideal", it can backfire on you on each one of these items. This means that her behaviour is outside of your control, not worth the try.
Don't think for a second that the problem is just that men are too "beta" to handle women. There are A LOT of masculine men getting busted out there and I also believe that there are a lot of men in this sub that were masculine even before coming here and realized that something was very wrong.
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squidracer 7y ago
I don't really agree. I was more or less faithful for several years, because that's just how I am.. When I announced my breakup on Facebook I had two messages within an hour and a girl over that weekend
CanuckinFL 7y ago
squid, no hell way you can compete with women in terms of sexual availability, man. Props to you on your Facebook recovery, but really, if a woman wants to get laid inside of an hour after breaking off with you, it's done. And that assumes she's waited until the end of the relationship to act, which itself is a crazy assumption.
squidracer 7y ago
Who cares?? As long as I got laid
Your_Coke_Dealer 7y ago
Who said it was a competition? If I and a woman each have the goal of getting laid one night (yeah, bite me, I know it's a proper mentality that women aren't a goal), and she has 3 acceptable prospects and I have one, each of us gets the same thing. I say acceptable prospects as an other-things-equal in terms of physical attractiveness standards. It doesn't matter she has more availability; she still has only one vagina to fill, and I have one dick to get wet. So why compare? So long as I have ready options for sex, though the more the merrier, abundance exists in the grand scheme of things for me as much as her.
Antibuddy 7y ago
Again, what's missing from this is acknowledgement that things change as we age, and a discussion on how they change. This advice is going to be completely different for a 22 year old vs a 3 year old. Completely. I would never advocate a 22 year old do anything BUT spin plates.
enkae7317 7y ago
One big thing you've missed is that she and you should be having sex, a LOT. And sex shouldn't be a commodity that is thrown around--it should be an act of love a fun you two do together as a couple. The moment she starts limiting you in any way or form (ultimatums) is a clear indicator that you're doing something wrong. In fact, she should be all up on you, almost every time you guys meet up.
interestedplayer 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.4792
Surfincloud9 7y ago
I follow all of this but number 6. I have really damaged the attraction because of texting way too much and definitely about the relationship. If I text her less, she feels like I am distancing myself and will do the same herself. I don't like these games and recently, I have been a lot better at it. We won't talk about the relationship anymore, she questions if I really want this with her and I comfort her. My SMV is definitely quite a bit more than hers but sometimes I slip back to being a beta. Practice practice, it's like riding a bike. This is my last chance though, if I fuck up and act like a bitch or complain to her again, then I will end it myself. Not gonna try to dig myself out of a hole too deep
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Attraction will go up, and her distancing is a bluff.
this sounds like a very beta relationship you got going on.
but does she know that? does she FEEL that?
Hakametal 7y ago
THIS right here is one of the biggest shit-tests that men fail. The real question is, would you really want to spend time with a woman who holds back on her feelings?
I had this big time 9 months ago, when I dated HB10 who was very insecure and had a lot of narc traits. I always used the phone for logistics only and short banter and never over texted her, yet it drove her fucking mad. The thing I didn't realise was that when mind games are being played, she is seeing if you're a needy beta.
Personally though, women like this are drama... and I honestly get tired very quickly from drama.
Surfincloud9 7y ago
I've had my beta moments. It started out alpha but I slipped quite a bit. First relationship since I've been off heroin. I'm trying to revert back to that. Maybe too late but I know people who started relationships beta, found TRP and really flipped it
kruxofthemimed 7y ago
in the process here as well. Had a very very bad relationship, lots of mistrust and I was a huge beta. We lived together at the age of 17 for two years and that really fucked things up.
Surfincloud9 7y ago
It's all a process of learning. We are too young not to be learning from relationships
kruxofthemimed 7y ago
Yup. Biggest things I've taken from TRP is that instead of making the relationship my end goal, it should be a complement to the goals of my life and nothing more. Also distance/not being needy are huge.
Juan-San 7y ago
Monogamy is not a goal, is a biproduct of actually applying TRP concepts into your relationship. If you dread her right, she'll give you her best, so you won't feel like you need any other woman.
yaardi 7y ago
Having been through shitty LT relationships and being alone, I'd definitely choose the loneliness.
[deleted] 7y ago
That's called voluntarily celibacy. Involuntary celibacy is when you can't get a woman with an acceptable SMV to fuck you
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aanarchist 7y ago
i have a hard time believing that involuntary celibacy is real. like it's not hard to game a girl, it's just hard to find someone you can stand for more than 3 weeks.
[deleted] 7y ago
It's a term for men who are unwilling to put any effort into improving their SMV. Think about obese college kids that just sit around and play video games all day
dmystery 7y ago
Involuntary celibacy is 100% real. "Incel" culture is on the rise infact. There's pretty interesting documentaries about men who "check out" of society in Japan termed 'Hikikomori" many of whom are incels and have never known what its like to have any female attention. I think TRP attracts guys who have been scorned by women in shitty relationships whereas MGTOW is more for those who have never asked a girl out.
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Docbear64 7y ago
You have clearly not met many betas or you're trying to humble brag . I can open up my facebook and point you to 5 guys bemoaning how women "Never want the good guys" A.K.A Involuntarily celibate men or men who write long poems to an invisible princess awaiting them in a far off castle . The type of men where a hint of interest sends them reeling to appeal to a woman because it's so rare to have any interest from a woman.
[deleted] 7y ago
I can't up vote you enough
aanarchist 7y ago
HUMBLEBRAG LOL. bruh i complain about women never wanting the good guys too, i just happen to know game 101 and how to trigger a woman's triggers, especially when i'm under the influence of something.
aDrunkenWhaler 7y ago
50% of men can't get a date to save their lives.
30% struggle
10% have it good
10% slay pussy like it's their job
That's why you have to be in top 20%.
[deleted] 7y ago
10% are fat as fuck 45% of men are over weight Another 15% are skinny fat 10% are in decent shape 10% re in good shape 5% are in great shape 3% are what every girl wets their panties to 2% are gym freaks
Sexual market place, top 20% are getting laid
Lift If you read two red pill and think we are a bunch of assholes, just look how girls treat guys that are in shape, having a good strong body is a alpha trait, get in shape, everyone treats you better
squidracer 7y ago
Look around you for once.. The other day I was eating and there was this 300+ pound fat ass who looked dirty as fuck.. You think he's "gaming"
aanarchist 7y ago
that's his choice to be a dirty fatass, nothing involuntary about that.
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Thizzlebot 7y ago
I'm in that boat now. If it's not actively adding or neutral in my life it's making me worse and I'm better/healthier without. This is why abundance mentality is important.
samenrofringslikeLBJ 7y ago
Cohabitation is cancer. The only benefit is a small increase in the difficulty to cheat, which she will anyway. Cheating is the major problem for LTR's, so the only way to make LTR's attractive is to solve cheating which you can't unless you move out to a lonely island or some extreme shit like that. And even then, a woman will likely fuck a cocunut tree on that island because of the incessant need to have bigger better things in her vagina.
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[deleted] 7y ago
"LTR" implies exclusivity. That's an open relationship, not an LTR. It's definitely possible to continue to employ dread while you're in an LTR, but you need to be more tactful about it. Simply going to the gym isn't enough. She's needs to be aware that you won't hesitate to drop her if she has a streak of misbehaving.
I flirt with other women in front of my LTR because it shows her that she's not my only option. The pre-selection, coupled with the fact that "I still choose her at the end of the night", turns her on. It turns me into the prize rather than the other way around.
Being her prize is how you employ dread in an LTR, because no woman wants to lose her prize.
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BreathOfDick 7y ago
LTR doesn't necessarily mean exclusive, depending on who you ask. Look up blackdragon MLTR and OLTR.
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Corndog_Enthusiast 7y ago
That's not really a healthy LTR. I understand cabin fever, but 3 days is nothing.
[deleted] 7y ago
[deleted]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.7708
innominating 7y ago
So you only fuck twice a week?
[deleted] 7y ago
Usually 2 or 3 times each time we hang out.
Rufferto_n_Groo 7y ago
These were my best relationships. Always have your own life, and she better have her own.
homelessWOOKIE9 7y ago
2-4 is optimal for me. Anything more and i'm just going through the motions. Prolactin is a real buzzkill
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[deleted] 7y ago
I practice karezza--sex without orgasm--all but every 7 to 10 days.
Keeps the prolactin problem at bay.
returnofthemackX 7y ago
I honestly don't see the point in that.
[deleted] 7y ago
Semen retention, testosterone increase, prolactin reduction. Focus, superpowers, happiness, etc.
badDayAtBerchdsgaden 6y ago
Well that list took off at the end more than expected
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Marsupian 7y ago
Different people want different things and people change.
There is something exciting about the hunt when you are single and it can lead to more risk taking behavior and more adventure. For some that is more valuable than the frequency or quality of sex.
TheReformist94 7y ago
the only people who want relationships are the top 20% of men and women who decide THEY WANT A RELATIONSHIP(read: want, not need and can ditch the LTR when it doesnt suit them).
For the remaining BOTTOM 80% MALES and BOTTOM 20% FEMALES, they will NEED RELATIONSHIPS as the return on investment of pursuing casual sex is not worth it, so they need the LTR for emotional stability/sex/resources whatever.
IVIaskerade 7y ago
There's something exciting about the hunt when you're single, but nothing is better than the hunt when you're allegedly in a relationship.
[deleted] 7y ago
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IVIaskerade 7y ago
No, because there's no guilt there.
[deleted] 7y ago
Agreed. There's a time for conquest, and your conquest phase more than probably anything will prepare you for a good relationship.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I've just recently learned this first hand chasing European girls. You must "conquistare" them, and it's one hell of a hunt. At first I thought, "wtf, I miss New York girls where having sex meant taking them out for a night in the city and being just slightly charming." As time went on however, I began to hunt and conquistare a Belgian girl. Enjoying your prey after a good, long hunt is much more satisfying than having everything come easy. Plus, you know your girl is classy, cultured, and one intimidating woman to other guys looking her way.
KINGahRoo 7y ago
Can confirm. Dated a Bulgarian women straight from the source and 'twas amazing! The looks she got from being an exotic European was insane!! It's an insane power trip most men couldn't even begin to imagine. 10/10 recommended, try European!!
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[deleted] 7y ago
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Blacklabellogics 7y ago
I recently wrote an article on opportunity and replacement costs in relationships (http://wp.me/p78k8O-tF) and this post is exactly right. However, with relationships you also get a sunk cost aspect, as the time dedicated to the relationship only has value as long as you are in that relationship.
Once you leave the relationship not only have you had quite substantial sunk cost losses, and opportunity costs, you then have to take on replacement costs as well.
From a risk management perspective, there are certain risks a man faces when in a LTR but there are also risks a man faces outside of an LTR when spinning plates. I covered them in depth here (http://wp.me/p78k8O-om) but I'll do a quick rundown:
Risk of dry spells are higher outside of an LTR
From an investment perspective, spinning plates is an attempt to diversify away risk through portfolio theory. Namely, that the total risk of all your plates is lower than each plate individually.
An LTR on the other hand (unless OLTR where you have multiple plates) is a case of putting all your eggs in one basket, and thus face higher levels of risk.
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[deleted] 7y ago
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Eastuss 7y ago
From experience that depends from men to men.
No matter how hot a woman is, if I know her body by heart I won't be interested that much. Whenever I was fapping a lot to porn, I would sometimes find "the" perfect girl with that astronomical body that I would never get bored of, I always got bored of those. Same for crushes during teenage years.
It's not like I don't have sex anymore with my 10 year long partner, it's just that seeing her naked or the thought of having sex with her isn't that much appealing. Her ass is a 8/10 to me. Meanwhile I can have a boner by thinking of sex with a less good looking woman.
I prefer a LTR lifestyle, and functioning like that is kind of a curse. If you're not like that then enjoy.
SeemedGood 7y ago
I feel like the YMMV rule applies here, but solid post nonetheless.
Jorxcle 7y ago
Going on the first vacation for 9 days with my LTR in a few weeks. Acording to you, not a good idea... Regardless, any tips on how to handle it, keep attraction at a high level?
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
You did not mention a huge consideration: BIRTH CONTROL. As in BE IN CONTROL. Get in a LTR and be tempted to just use the pill or whatever, good luck with that.
Also, I have to add, from an older generation where shit was better in every way, you young guys are FUCKED. The fact that you have to resort to a list of rules and tactics, shit is bad out there right now, and will be for how long?
Entrefut 7y ago
I don't think guys in your generation had access to this much pussy though. Takes a little time to get good, but once you get going the polygamy is insane. It's more of a game than it used to be, but it's not like it's really that bad. I'm enjoying the hell out of the dating scene right now.
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
Not what I meant; I was talking about LTRs, which are extremely satisfying, if you aren't 99% certain you're going to be cheated on.
Back to your point, you have no idea what you're talking about. There has ALWAYS been abundant pussy for the top dudes, which I count myself very lucky to be among. I remember ONCE I went 30 days without getting laid. And, THREE TIMES, I had to settle for drunken ONS with chicks below my standards. Other than that, it was high quality and often, with almost every "type" of woman I wanted.
It was also ALL no condoms. I didn't even see a condom out of the wrapper until I was 22. Even with AIDS in the area, the 1980s was a great time for fucking and for everything else.
By the way, all you have to do is go back to your comments while you're logged in and click delete to the duplicates. That way you won't look like such a dingus, my friend. Have a great day.
BreathOfDick 7y ago
Internet has made moving on too easy for them. So many orbiters. So many legit attractive guys readily available.
BoyWhoreWithASword 7y ago
Yes the scales have tipped completely out of balance. The situation in the western world is a violation of natural law.
I can't imagine anything tipping the scales significantly other than male birth control or war on the scale that 15-20% of the male population is wiped out.
That's how bad shit has gotten.
BreathOfDick 7y ago
Legal prostitution would be nice
Blacklabellogics 7y ago
Prostitution is already legal, but just like calls to a drug dealer, you cannot be overt about it.
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
Let's work this out, because you have the history and the RP theory wrong. Natural law is women get their choice and only 20% of males mate. Those are the true alphas.
Then comes the advent of agriculture and the accumulation of resources. More alphas getting all the women. This is when only 1 man reproduced for every 17 women.
But then the men who had all the resources could only maintain that by enlisting massive amounts of workers, we know them as betas. Those guys weren't going to work for nothing! So marriage was invented, and then reinforced by society to placate betas into having something to work for.
All religion and social structures of the last 10,000 years has been OPPRESSION OF WOMEN'S SEXUALITY. For the benefit of the 80% of men who do not have alpha qualities. Until mid-20th century feminism.
So the situation in the western world is a return to a more natural state of affairs, not a violation of natural laws.
mcpaulus 7y ago
Wait, are you saying that 10.000 years ago in the Stone age, only 1 of 10 guys produced children? Do you have any credible sources for this?
Or am I misreading this horribly?
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idgaf- 7y ago
There was research pointed out in a thread a short while ago, https://archive.is/YVTbz
mcpaulus 7y ago
I read that article, and even though I would not call it a credible source, it does have some amazing findings.
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BoyWhoreWithASword 7y ago
It's natural for men to keep women's sexuality and female nature in check though. Society, culture, religion, and civilization have always taken measures to keep female nature in check. The oppression of women's sexuality IS natural because men are superior to women.
Men build society and men make the rules. That's why almost universally among cultures and religions you have the ancients writing about female nature and the wickedness of women and how men are supposed to keep them in check.
It's unnatural for men to allow women to run free. Since men have had language, men have made the decisions for women. Throughout history a woman's father or husband was her master and protector. For the first time in human history, we've removed that from the equation. Women these days "need no master" because they can work the same jobs as men and get government assistance.
It's the natural state of affairs that men are stronger and smarter than women. Men, by NATURE are superior to women. Female "equality" is not only a lie, but a violation of nature. Men are meant to dictate to women just as it was written in the Bible, the Qur'an, the Hindu vedas, ancient Chinese scrolls, and African spiritual folklore.
Any deviation from patriarchy is a violation of natural law.
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
Apparently we agree 100% in principle, but you are misusing the term natural.
Clearly you are not familiar with Briffault's Law. Look it up. It is a description of the way NATURE works.
The Bible, the Koran, etc. are NOT products of nature and are not descriptions of NATURAL law, they are prescriptions of how the MEN who wrote them WISHED things were.
Again, we are in total agreement on the ideas, but not the terms. Unless you really think the holy scriptures are some product of nature.
BoyWhoreWithASword 7y ago
I'm an atheist. When I bring those up it's because it is universal across cultures for men to see the nature of women and take measures to keep it in check.
I understand the 80/20 rule... I'm saying that just as female nature is natural, it's natural for men to restrict it.
Any society where men and women are equal is against nature. But I do get your points. The redpill is about seeing the world for how it truly is, not what we wish it to be or what we were told it is.
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
Even more clear that we totally agree on the principles, but not the usage.
You probably will agree that being an atheist, you can still appreciate those scriptures, as do I. But again, don't conflate "universal" with "natural." Maybe I'm being pedantic.
But it's really not natural for men to restrict it. In a natural context males couldn't really do much to restrict female sexuality. Except for the absolute apex alpha. And all the other males were just left out.
Nature doesn't care about us, bro.
[deleted] 7y ago
You don't understand natural. Society is the product of natural processes and is therefore natural. If it were unnatural it would not be following the laws of nature, and it would collapse. The current situation is unnatural and will cease to exist in short order due to low birth rates.
While female sexuality in the form you are describing is natural, so is the need for marriage as a means to raise children in a way which will propagate a society. Muslim and extremist christians will be the only cultural groups left within a few generations.
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
Thanks for the laughs, guy. Society and social constructs are EXACTLY what are opposed to natural in this kind of discussion.
If you still don't get it, ask yourself, Does NATURE need marriage? Further, Does the human species NEED marriage? No, it just "needs" babies, and it just needs for them to grow up and have more babies to continue. It doesn't matter at all what conditions they grow up in, as long as they reproduce.
BoyWhoreWithASword 7y ago
I don't disagree with anything you've said sir.
whatsthisgarg 7y ago
how did you do that so fast? I mean respond so quickly
FrameWalker 7y ago
Every man has to decide for himself. LTR should not be attempted before the man is ready. I highly reccomend at minimum 24 months of spinning plates. You need to fully embrace abundance and get experience with shit tests.
If you are not ready you will be a shitty boyfriend because your frame is weak. Dont drag yourself through the mud because you arent ready.
BoobToArmRatio 7y ago
It depends on how you define an "ideal" RP lifestyle. From a TRP subreddit perspective, TRP is about male sexual strategy and spinning plates is an optimal strategy. However, I personally agree with OP and believe that living a Red Pill lifestyle should be more than just being socially RP and spinning plates.
While OP went into more detail on specifics, in a broad sense I feel like any guy who has had experience spinning plates and truly understands the Red Pill dynamic between men and women would have no trouble managing a LTR with a higher quality girl. I also think that if you 100% know that you could leave the girl and be perfectly fine as a single man then you'll always be in control. You only lose control once you start doubting yourself or if you start relying on the girl for validation, happiness, etc.
So if you are capable of and want to be in a LTR, and you have a good candidate, then by all means let her "convince you". Just make sure you use the time and energy saved from not spinning plates on something productive. Personally I recommend working on financial RP, but do whatever you think will improve yourself as a man!
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Gunnilingus 7y ago
This isn't really an LTR...its just a long term plate situation. That's really what you're advocating here.
[deleted] 7y ago
If that's what I'm advocating then that's what I'm advocating. Plates don't really meet parents and friends, though. And I don't spend money on plates.
nightmancommeth 7y ago
I am in an LTR (3 years) where I live with the woman and Dread works like a charm still. Anytime she does something I disagree with I withdraw and ghost her for the most part while at work and just dont say anything at home.
MilleniumForce 7y ago
This can be a deceptive post for those new to TRP. In my experience, dudes can have a hard time letting go of their old mindset, and the nuance of this post will blow past them.
[deleted] 7y ago
I had the same thought while writing it, so I decided to put in bold some phrases that make it more clear we're talking about an alpha LTR.
drrootnsnoot 7y ago
If you want children, gotta marry. Might get shit on royally, but it's worth the risk.
[deleted] 7y ago
I've seen a lot of people make it work. Or at least, it seems like they've made it work.
Nagicman1 7y ago
Just lol didn't read, but legit ltr are a good thing for happiness.