http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/18/news/economy/nba-player-jeff-teague-live-with-parents/index.html
"So many people know someone who has moved back in with their parents. Any stigma that used to exist isn't there anymore," says Kim Parker, director of social trends research at Pew.
The "live at home" trend is especially popular among men under 35. A whopping 35% of young adult men in America now live with their parent(s), versus just 29% of young women. Young men are delaying marriage and all the usual trappings that come with it like home buying and kids. The main reason? Money, or the lack of it.
"Men who don't have jobs are much more likely to live at home," says Parker, and "men without jobs are much less likely to be married."
I see that last paragraph as being the most important point. As more and more men are squeezed out of an ever shrinking job market, or a market more geared towards women friendly jobs, more and more men will stay at home and not get married.
Funnily, it is still lower for young women living at home at 29% 35vs . More often having that partner to lean on, generall richer and older? Or having access to high paying jobs when youger? Yet still we hear about this wage gap and male priviledge. This also means the 'dateable' man pool gets smaller and smaller as well. (Unless they're the hot bad boy and all they do is work out and sponge of the parents,but then its really a fuckbuddy thing). No income, no moving out, no marriage, no kids, goodbye natural birth rate, hello immigration replacement to keep the pension ponzi going.
Thewvguy 7y ago
I'm 46 & live with my mom. I finished college terribly in debt & the only job I could get was a temp job for $4.50 an hour. My mother was in tough shape because she'd cared for her mom who passed away. She had no money. Staying together worked. We had no car so I didn't learn to drive at 16. I finally learned at 34. Unfortunately, the job market in my area stinks. I'm now making about $25,000 per year. I'm out of debt. My mother is in better financial shape. I just want to help her save some. I never thought I'd still live at home. I've worked hard. I've worked two jobs. My mom worked two jobs. Life is tough. I just try to enjoy as much as I can.
jackandjill22 7y ago
What do you mean 'speak different languages', just curious.
diablo_fuentes 7y ago
This makes shit easier. That and many men becoming MGTOWs means easy pusy. Consider the average man: 20 lbs overweight, bad haircut, didn't finish college, no beard or unkempt beard, under 6ft. I thought the same thing that I would never get a job but kept at it and now I work a great job
SW9876 7y ago
18-34 is a weird range. If someone is still living with their parents when they're 34 that's awful. But why would you hold it against an 18 year old to still be living with their parents?
OrpheusV 7y ago
Living at home while going to college, while a very pragmatic option/moneysaver, kinda kills your social life a bit.
I personally regret not going to the gym as much as I should have more than living at home.
Marcus1138 7y ago
Totally agreed. I was lucky to have enough scholarships to have tuition be virtually free, and living with my parents allowed me to go to university for almost no cost and have the financial freedom to do what I'd like. Sure it's harder socially, but it gives you time to get the ball rolling.
SW9876 7y ago
I'd go further than calling it pragmatic. Or argue paying for your own place near home is a complete waste. Although, it's not a terrible idea if you rent a place off campus with some friends that you use for school but requires a year long lease.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Roommates are unbelievably unreliable. Gonna be honest here. Had roommates when I was 19-21 through university; worst experiences of my life hardened/toughened me up quickly- Afterward by maneuvering family politics through a hostile takeover I de-facto took possession of one of many pieces of property that my family owns.
Wish I had the balls to have done it sooner:
cutoff some relationships that weren't doing any good now that house serves as a place of operations for my business. Don't have to pay rent but have my own place. They fork over money for maintenance & upkeep.
Personally find that destroying others through self-motivation causes greater success than attempting to cooperate when eveyone's intentions & motivations are different.
You can't trust people better to be a predator, then you're what everyone else's paranoid of rather than constantly being paranoid of others
SW9876 7y ago
The only reason I mentioned roommates was for the sake of saving money.
jackandjill22 7y ago
I know. Moral of the story.
I wish my world experience or elder taught me at 19 unless you've got 'true bro's' that won't break a lease when they're mad- won't become backstabbing turncoats/quizzlings over a vagina, won't screw you generally while you're studying for exams: roommates aren't worth the money.
There's too much Fucking drama people just don't get along
[deleted] 7y ago
When I first swallowed TRP at 19 (I'm 21 now), the very first decision I made was move back in my parents and attend the university that is located in my city. The reason why I did that was because I was already ~$10,000 in student loan debt from living in a dorm room at a university across my state. Since net worth takes time to accumulate, the very first step I did was kill activities that brought it down (in this case, student loans).
Now that I moved back in, I can proudly say that I am receiving what is basically a full ride through my undergraduate STEM degree, am already paying off my loans and have access to two different homes (my parents are divorced) in a quality suburban area.
The whole "live it up while you're young!" crap gets drilled into people's heads nowadays in the United States, and a segment of this idea is that you must move out at age 18 right away. To get to school now, I take a city bus and after talking to a good chunk of the students that also live at home instead of "living it up", the script is quite similar: everything is expensive as Hell in this day and age, especially tuition, and students who work and go to school at the same time aren't getting paid jack shit.
Johndoesmith67 7y ago
Went to Texas State for a semester expecting to graduate from there after a few years of community college. NO jobs down there, no potential, not finding a mentor, talking to Bar tenders who are 28 and never left. Sure it was fun but the second I came back I realized I had spent almost 8 grand in a semester! Now I have an amazing sales position in a very posh area I plan to move to. Just shows that college is for people who never need to worry about money. It's not all it's cracked up to be. I am still living it up and adding to my NW.
MeatCurtainRod 7y ago
What everyone is forgetting here, is that men who can't provide for themselves are of VERY LOW status. Even when the women are blowing their shafts, they do it condescendingly and out of pity. This dynamic is at best "mother-son", and at worst "princess-slave" kind of relationship. And they will NEVER want to be seen with that kind of guy in public. What a horrible life for a dude.
[deleted] 7y ago
[deleted]
MeatCurtainRod 7y ago
Well, ya, drugs and booze always lowers people's inhibitions. But this has nothing to do with the young men crisis we are talking about. If you always need drugs and booze to get close to women who will only get close to you when they are full of drugs and booze, there is obviously something wrong with this picture.
daddyj11 7y ago
Keep your faith boys. A year ago I was making 10/hr now I'm more than 4 times that. Luck obviously plays a role, but keep working towards your own goals and you'll be fine.
A_Becker 7y ago
Could you elaborate on your job? I'd love to hear your professional progression.
daddyj11 7y ago
For sure I'm an engineer transitioning to product management at a small consulting firm in tech. I work remotely and am very grateful for all I have in life.
Knew nothing about code 2 years ago (I'm not a geek), starting self teaching January 2014 as instinct told me it's an absolutely vital skill to have moving forward in this society. Got fired from then 13/hr job, had to move in w/ my parents, had a girlfriend get killed (this all helped me gain a ton of humility). Got a 'job' at a tech spot for 10/hr. Started cold called/emailed other local startups asking for internships (visualize the win), got a short gig w/ a dude which payed really well/gained confidence in myself. Got fired from 10/hr job. Tried to start my own house cleaning business (ala localcasestudy). Fail. Got a 15/hr job off craigslist managing a player's web content for his million dollar scamming empire, got that up to 25/hr a couple months later (just asked). Took a Javascript night course at a local JC for networking and pussy. I was working on my final project when I found the FB post (had a 'test' assignment. coincidentally the job was for Javascript). Obviously only finished one of them. Asked for 30/hr, got that up to 40/hr couple months later unannounced and again a a couple months ago got another raise, and am expecting another soon w/ my new role.
Part of the cherry is that company that was paying me 10hr is now one of my new companies clients.
Moral is fall 7 times, get up 8. Have that goal that you can focus/visualize on when times are hard and stay positive.
Copenhagen23 7y ago
just turned 31 and living at home. went to university for 2 years and dropped out. drank, partied, got hooked on drugs, and wasted ages 18-25. luckily my family tried to help me and I ended up going to trade school to be an electrician. I'm 6 months away from getting my e2. I have about $15k in total debt. my plan is to consolidate my debt, get my license, and save to hopefully move out before 32. any other royal fuck ups here getting their shit together later in life?
aznredpill 7y ago
3 years homeless, 29 yo, finally finishing my environmental engineering degree at a strong state school.
Life isn't a sprint. it's a rollercoaster.
You got this homie.
RICCIedm 7y ago
Unless they're the hot bad boy and all they do is work out and sponge of the parents
This is me, at 23. Why would I ever get a job, deal with stress and fuck up my workouts/diet if I can just stay and fuck girls who have their own place?
[deleted] 7y ago
A few things to note. Young people this era have much higher costs of everything than our parents and grandparents ever had. Housing in some parts of the country is 4 times the cost as it was 25 years ago. Most of my dad's friends bought homes when they were under $110,000 and now they are all $450k+. These middle aged men could not afford to buy the homes they have lived in for 25-30 years with the jobs they currently have.
Houses in my area are being bought by married couples who both partners are professionals so their household income is $120k+. I had a few friends that were saving money from the time they got out of high school and were able to buy a house for very low prices immediately after the crash in 2007.
Everything is much more expensive. Food costs significantly more, health care is a few multiples of what it was 25 years ago. My health insurance is $220 per month. 30 years ago comparable insurance was somewhere around $30-$40 per month. A weekly food budget of $100 today has a comparable spending power to about $30 did in 1991.
Also note. Saving money for a house is next to impossible because your money gains almost nothing year to year. With absolutely no financial literacy, just putting money in the bank, people could get 10-16% interest in the 1980's with some people briefly getting 19%. Save $100 and a year later it will be worth $115. Now if you save $100 a year later it will be worth $101. To really make it sound fucked, in order to make $1000 per year in interest, at 15% you just need a little under $7000 in the bank, and at the peak interest of 19% you just needed a little over $5000. Regular simps actually made this sort of interest just by putting their money in the bank. But today to make $1000 per year in interest you need anywhere from $95,000 to $110,000 in the bank.
Really extrapolate this out. The annual income in the 1980s was about $16,000 per year. If someone had $112,000 in the bank they would make enough on interest that would be equivalent to the average working person's annual pay. They could literally retire as their interest made them enough money they did not have to work. It was possible, and many people did this where they would work to get enough money in the bank and then have the interest cover their mortgage. This did not require any risk as everything was FDIC insured and did not require any sort of financial decision making other than putting money in a bank and keeping it there. Today this value is about $53,000. In order to make $53,000 at bank interest you need well over $5 million in the bank.
So working comparable jobs makes considerably less money, there are jobs which paid $10 per hour in 1991 that pay maybe $12-$13 per hour today. The basic costs are all much higher (food, energy, healthcare, insurance, education). Taxes are considerably higher on certain things (sales tax has gone up across the board). Saving your money in a bank offers almost no upside as interest rates are so incredibly small so gaining wealth via simple savings is much more difficult.
There needs to be an economic correction. It is inevitable. That which goes on forever will eventually stop.
Purecorrupt 7y ago
I wish $100 savings netted 1% interest. It's more like .01%
absoluteskeptic 7y ago
It was a 10 year period where rates were above 8%, and a 3 year period where they were above 12%. BTW, those rates weren't a good thing. They indicated the economy was in turmoil, and there was a lot of uncertainty.
The difference today is people have accepted low rates. It's fairly easy to move to an online bank with better rates, if more people did that then banks would be forced to raise rates, rinse and repeat. The only problem is people are lazy and have multiple accounts at one institution (broker, mortgage, credit card, bank account, 401k), so most accept the low rates because of the ATM network and other such nonsense. Add in low Fed interest rates and QE. It's great for borrowers, if you can borrow.
Lots of little things are either free or so cheap, it may as well be. Electronics. My 4th grade teacher showed off his $350 calculator (today it would cost $1000). You can buy one at the dollar store ($1) or it comes free with a phone. Air conditioning. Equipment and running costs have come down so much. It's helped (really, the main reason) for the South and West to get such migration from the East and Midwest. Every car has it, every home has it. Clothes. My mom would make her own clothes (as did many), it was really expensive to were nice fashions. Today, I don't know of anyone who knows how to sew. People buy clothes to last a few months, not several years or more. In addition, clothes materials are quality are much better today. Food is basically the same price, but the shopping experience is completely different. Fresh Veggies available year round, three times the variety, too. Home delivery and can order by the internet. Can get through the check out in less than 5 minutes (it took up to 20 minutes back then, price checks, no bar codes). Can't pay with cash? You need to have an approved account with the supermarket to use your personal checks. Convenience stores open 24 hours, supermarkets open 24 hours, ATMs open 24 hours, automatic bridge/toll systems for drivers. Computers and electric keyboards, plus dead cheap cameras: you could make a movie by yourself cheaper and better quality than what was often made in 1979. You can now record and album for almost free at home. Free long distance phone calls (used to cost $3 a minute for my dad, $10 in today's money). A incredibly safe and reliable car can be had for $15,000 today with much higher quality and about the same cost.
The list goes on, but nobody today thinks of spending nearly $1,000 on a calculator. People vacation in Hawaii or Mexico, not the campsite 5 hours from home (unless you are into camping). The big craze today is PokemonGo, an augmented reality smartphone game that connects you with cloud servers, Japanese inspired animation, businesses doing advertising, social networks, and the NSA (a person in the 70's would have no idea what that sentence meant, it may as well not been in English). In the 70's the big craze was the pet rock. 'Nough said.
chinese___throwaway3 7y ago
Didn't rates go down partly because Glass-Steagall was repealed?
Ifuckinglovepron 7y ago
I really hate to break it to you, but we are in the correction period. The 1950's through the 1980's was the fluke. It is all going back to the normal of human history now.
dabrah1 7y ago
This should be upvoted more. The US economy was so great from the 1950s to the 1990s because the rest of the world basically had to rebuild its infrastructure and economic systems after world war 2. We had virtually no competition. Things are indeed back to where they should be, and where there going to stay.
Tongsuyuk 7y ago
So fuckin sad America. Yall need to make america great again and make america affordable again.
thor_away92 7y ago
Can I get some sauce for this? My dad thinks I'm just crying that full time student working full time living on his own is stupid expensive.
He thinks I'm whining, because he did it. Which he's right, for the most part but he thinks my logic is askewed on the current economical situation. And how it was relatively more affordable for him years ago.
[deleted] 7y ago
Go look up prices for things when your dad was your age. Especially local rents and find rent controlled apartments (sometimes he people have been there for 30 years and are paying the 1986 price or not far off it). You can also just look at college tuition prices. You can also just ask your father how much he was making when he was your age and then compare that pay to the current pay.
Historically college tuition was far cheaper across the board. Peter Schiff did a thing a while back using the price of commodities now and then to compare the cost of tuition at Yale University and it was just a few ounces of gold a long time ago and today its 10x that much.
Rommel0502 7y ago
I get what you are trying to say but you cannot present your case by just showing the cost side of inflation.
(Eg - a $16,000 salary in 1980 equals about $47,000 today. Yes, you would make more on a bank account yielding 9%, but the 16% mortgage interest rate would take quite a bite out of your purchasing power.)
Next, call me cold but I dont give a shit about people making minimum wage. If your market value is so poor that you need government regulation to increase your wage then you really need to look at yourself in the mirror and ask how you can add more value that people will want to pay for. I would say the same thing for a fool who expects to live off of interest from a fucking bank account. For God's sake educate yourself and look for investments.
Last, I agree there will be a correction, and a bigger one than most are willing to admit. It will be because of conflicts of interest in our political systems that allow the same people who tax be the same people who spend be the same people who issue debt be the same people who print money.
[deleted] 7y ago
The low interest rate is government manipulation to get people to spend more. It is how George Bush fought off the recession right after 9/11 and created the housing bubble. The high interest rate limits how big of a loan people can get. The lower the interest rate and the larger the loan, the higher the interest rate and the smaller the loan. This is because they are limited by their monthly payment. The low interest rate jacks up the price of housing and other heavily financed goods considerably (higher education is another, and is in a bubble). The value of houses is more or less kept up by what people can get a loan for. If people can get a $400k loan then housing prices shoot up. If people only qualify for $150k then housing prices drop.
I am in agreement with you about minimum wage. But I am going to make the point of social commentary, a lot of baby boomers were total simps who got jobs that in comparison paid far higher in the 1970s and 1980s than those same jobs to today. I personally know people who were making $13 per hour at their job in 1985 (I also know their employer who hired them) and that same job today pays $15 per hour (same employer hiring new people). Yeah its more, but its not much more. The baby boomers will lead people on to think they were incredibly hard working and busted ass more than anyone else when it isn't true. They didn't particularly hustle hard. They didn't have to look for investments that required research, they just put their money in the bank.
ronsoness 7y ago
nice reply. the stats are all about economic changes. many developed countries are having the same issues with decreased home ownership, the need for dual incomes, and more underemployment or longer work hours. i read on cnn that british millenials will be the first generation to make less lifetime earnings than parents.
also, i want to add that investment advice from older people who enjoyed better growth of the market and high interest savings % can't simply be applied to the current economy. i keep seeing retirement advice based on a historic average 15%/year growth as if the market will grow ad infinitum.
finally, damn i wish i could live with my parents. been on my own since 18. if i put all that rent money in retirement, i'd be done with it already.
I_Need_More_Space_ 7y ago
Yeah, geezers keep telling me to invest for my retirement. Fuck that. I want to die penny-less having spent every dime living life to the fullest. I don't care if I end up eating cat food on the street when I'm old. I'll be fucking old, ugly, and dying. Who gives a fuck at that point? Really.
anotherswingingdick 7y ago
"I spent 80% of my money on liquor and fast women.... the rest was wasted!"
aDAMNPATRIOT 7y ago
You know that money loses 75% of its value every 20 years right...
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah but you can look at other comparisons. A job that paid $13 in 1985 and the same job paying $15 today means that in comparison that was actually a much higher paying job back in the 1980s. Likewise health insurance that was $35 per month in 1985 was much cheaper than the same health insurance which is $235 today. College tuition that was $2500 in 1983 was far cheaper than the same college tuition that is now $19,000. A house that was $97,000 in 1982 (year my dad bought his house) is far cheaper than that same house selling for $520k a few months ago (house recently sold).
aDAMNPATRIOT 7y ago
Yeah we are getting shafted no doubt
trancedj 7y ago
"There needs to be an economic correction."
An old time friend of the family has been talking about this. He calls it an "adjustment period."
Can you elaborate on this? What would a correction look like? A depression?
Great post btw.
[deleted] 7y ago
Economic Correction can be thought of as a rubber band releasing all built up tension.
Some times it's really easy to predict- people were calling the housing bubble and subsequent recession 2 years before it happened- that an economic correction would occur. One occurred to cause the Great Depression- people were investing money they didn't really own, effectively gambling and hoping that the investments would return favorably. They didn't often enough that many banks were taped out, causing Black Tuesday. After that people wouldn't trust banks fully for over a decade.
At the moment there's a huge number of continually escalating issues with no end in sight, most of which being the product of this collectivist political bend we've been on for a bit over 70 years. The US has accumulated so much national debt that our grand children wont be done paying it off, the US government- the Federal Reserve specifically- has been propping up the economy, individual debt just keeps going up, student loan debt keeps ballooning- that one's truly unusual because you can't escape it by filing for bankruptcy- numerous socialist leaning countries have all demonstrated that they have no remote ability to balance a budget, unemployment in the US keeps going up- people who are either unemployed and gave up finding work, or underemployed are not figured into the official statistic for some odd reason- and everyone's half way in between jeering and cheering for China.
Any number of events- probably an aggregate of them- could easily plummet the US economy- the global one for that matter- into a Depression because our economy is only as good as our word, and that word ain't really worth shit today. Granted, everyone else is either worse or basically considered dishonest as a point of daily business- EG: China.
BlackCombos 7y ago
As someone who is only economically literate in the most loose sense of the term I tend to believe the strength of the middle class prior to the start of this century was likely the exception, not the rule. For example the interest rates being talked about above occurred in basically a 4 year period from 79-83, although interest rates from the 70s to 00s were much higher than they are now, outside of that ultra high peak something around 5-8% was more typical and further those are all treasury bond interest rates, not the more useful liquid interest rates your bank offers on savings accounts (which are so low that you can essentially wholesale discount them).
Treasury bond interest rates are so low right now because they are set by the Fed and (according to the Fed, they certainly know better than I, but I'm sure you'll get a spectrum of opinions) that is an intentional strategy to moderate the US economy, which some may argue has been working fairly well, even counting the crash in '08 the US economy has essentially become continuously more stable overall since the Fed's inception.
The bigger issue would be the loss of effective financial instruments for people in the lower and middle class, which has an outsized impact on young people (as there are proportionally fewer upper class young people, for obvious reasons). I don't think there are many people that would claim that saving 8x the median income (in 2016 dollars that would be around $400,000) should qualify you to make a stable exit from the workforce, the impacts to the total base of US labor would be catastrophic if that were the case.
A large dimension of the discussion has been moving from a resource unlimited to a resource limited economy throughout the world. Global land utilization, rare mineral utilization, various fuel utilization is relatively high as a percentage of those resources on offer, which is a decidedly new phenomena of globalization. Economic expansion is more focused on innovation than capturing resources now - for instance real estate as it pertains to land is zero sum, the only way to capture value from real estate is to make the existing land more valuable by building something there or by going and finding some land nobody owns yet. Obviously we can't do the second one any longer, but we see the same phenomena happening with things like oil, where there aren't massive cheap oil deposits being stumbled upon anymore.
A lot of the "easy" innovation to capture has been captured, the next step (in my, again, economically stupid by a lot of people's measure, head) is to leverage the global workforce via improved skilled labor participation. We have 7 billion people on Earth and only a tiny fraction of them are involved in fields where their brain is what qualifies them (as opposed to their physical labor). A lot of the technological explosion over the last century could be cast in the light of the population explosion over same, and improved communication providing a better "social network" of intelligence to apply to problems. Computational tools continue that fight but until the Nerd Rapture (aka singularity) hits we will need to continue to feed the economy - on some fundamental level, with raw human grey matter.
Edit: to kind of head of what some people are saying here, I don't really think we should be laying this at the feet of the older generations. Some of the issues that have arisen from the modern economic alignment would have taken a crystal ball to predict, and although the 40+ voting block is still massive and strong, it is hard to complain when the 18-39 voting block barely ever shows up to the polls or produces attractive political thinkers.
And free trade is a touchy subject - yes it hurts the US economy, but it is a massive boon to the global economy, which ends up raising QoL back in the US (our lives would be shittier if there was no free trade, but life in other countries would be comparatively much much shittier) so come down on that issue where you will.
zedsdedforever 7y ago
great read. If you have the time, I am requesting a post that elaborates more of your financial theory along with reading material.
Shanguerrilla 7y ago
I really think you laid that out great, expounded well on some important points and offered what I think a big key to the cause and solution. The only way I differ from your brief exposition, is I think the FED is near criminally inept.
BlackCombos 7y ago
This is a very common perspective that I'm totally undecided on, I don't know enough macro-economic theory to really say what I would do differently than them. The thing that I see all the time is the Fed has radically different goals implicit in their actions than what a man on the street would say are the right goals. Things like holding a steady rate of inflation and targetting certain numbers for GDP growth provide a stable economic backdrop but are completely insensitive to the "actual" things people want out of the economy (increases in their purchasing power, for example). If I ever get the time I'll go back and read some stuff by/with Greenspan/Bernanke about how they see the role of the Fed and the service they are trying to provide, because I think that fundamental disconnect is poorly understood, and it generates a lot of negative perception for the Fed.
I'm no Fed apologist, particularly the fact that Ron Paul's "Audit the Fed" proposals get met with (essentially) laughter from the powerbrokers in this country is a real headscratcher for me, that sort of opaque operation just smells bad, but I'm no where near claiming that the Fed is bad at its job. I think it is just important to understand what the Fed is trying to do - which is stablize the economy. The fact that their method of stabilization has massively favored the people who are holding the capital is a negative, but if that is clearly outside their goalset, it shouldn't reflect poorly on them.
johnnygeeksheek 7y ago
You had me up until you said the Fed knows better than you. A ferret on meth knows more about the economy than the Fed. Either they are the most inept people on the planet or the Illuminati/nwo nutters have it right.
NietzscheExplosion 7y ago
The Fed was started by 100 individual shareholders(some cases a family held one share).
The purpose of the Fed (and other banks and national banks this cartel owns) is to simply have everyone in debt to them and use credit as money. Money is already debt that the governments promise to pay you. In the future it will be in reverse:
Wage salve owes debt of parents or ancestor or failed in debtors government he is a citizen of. Banks own everything. What he earns with his labour is : a little credit.
Even less than when he was paid in debt and MUCH less than when he was paid in trade.
Paying in trade or without credit (I fix your plumbing and you fix my car), will be the most serious crime in 30 years.
[deleted] 7y ago
Probably "The Greatest Depression".
If you look at the amount of debt today. People focus on public debt which is catastrophic enough in most developed economies, but the private debt is all far more severe. You also have to consider the dodgy financial instruments or derivatives that might number $10 or $100 to every $1 of debt. That's why subprime crashed the economy. Everyone looked at the bad sub prime and was preparing for a $200 billion loss but in reality there were $6 of derivatives for every $1 of bad debt. So it ended up being a $1.2 trillion crisis.
Just Deutsche bank has more derivatives on its books than the GDP of the entire global economy.
So you have all this bad debt - the central banks started printing money and slashed interest rates. Most of this money they created went into speculation and driving up asset prices and share buy backs. The central banks can't stop because if they didn't prop asset prices up then a lot of what the banks have on their balance sheets would be worth pennies on the dollar.
With this level of debt, putting interest rates up would be catastrophic because repayments at these interest rates are just about possible. What happens when interest rates go up to 20%? Mass default. Which would lead to debt deflation.
Another thing that also accompanied the great depression was productivity shock. Enormous amounts of labour had been automated in the 20 years before the great depression. Especially in agriculture. Its no wonder there was severe unemployment during the depression. Now we are going to see a lot of jobs automated by robots over the next 20 years.
Rommel0502 7y ago
Some really good here. And some really bad here.
For starters, your explanation of derivatives leaves a lot to be desired. I dont want to get into Hull here, but notional amount of a derivative does not equal the total risk of the derivative, which is what you have implied in your first two paragraphs. Most derivatives are constructed to lay off risk, not take it on, and with that there is a counterparty, so net risk is theoretically zero in many of these transactions.
I agree central banks over-printed money. For starters, any govt that is a debtor has huge incentive to debase its currency to repay that debt in a less valuable dollars/pesos/wampum/whatever. Printing up money is the best tax a politician can ever enact because its very stealthy. That it fucks savers is of no consequence to them.
You are also right about interest rates. Our debt payments would be absolutely crushing at 20%, ergo the govt (as a debtor) has a selfish reason to keep them low.
I dont agree with you about automation. That same stupid argument was made in the 70s regarding the proliferation of computers and how they would take away jobs. What was completely missed is that computers simply took away rote tasks and concurrently exponentially increased the productivity of workers who were now free to do other more sophisticated tasks. Now if we finally get AI that approaches human intelligence, you could be right, but IMO we are still decades away from that.
I'll sum it up. We are in this shit storm because of one reason, and that is because as good as the Framers were, capital markets were not developed enough at the time for them to foresee where the real power was going to be. With that, despite all of the checks and balances they tried to build in, at the end of the day, we have the same guys taxing who are the same guys spending who are the same guys issuing debt. A MASSIVE conflict of interest. The other MASSIVE conflict of interest is allowing the government to BOTH control the currency AND issue debt. As long as we have those two conflicts of interest in our political/financial systems, our long term equilibrium is bankruptcy. Any civilization that does not address these conflicts of interest amongst its leaders will end the same way.
Azzmo 7y ago
It's not going to be linear. It's going to be a compounding process that starts and becomes unimaginable to humans within a few days/weeks/months/maybe years. Once the first self-aware, self-optimizing AI is created (and it might actually already exist) it's going to evolve in a way and at a speed that most humans cannot comprehend.
Automation did take away jobs. Detroit and Cleveland and the rest of the rust belt (and the millions of displaced workers whose lives and progeny were reduced) would argue that those arguments were sound. We went from a system where unions guaranteed that even average people could work hard and earn a respectable lifestyle into the modern service-based economy where, unless you've got the brainpower and the degree and the massive debt, you have very little opportunity to attain those same circumstances.
Rommel0502 7y ago
Your argument about computers is at best conjecture. Eg, to posit that a machine can become "self-aware" no matter what level its AI is at the very best pure philosophical speculation.
And of course automation took away jobs locally. Just like the car took away buggy whip jobs. The part that you're missing is that now people were working assembling the Model T. As far as what happens to those people locally - I dont give a shit. Retrain yourself to add value elsewhere. That's the market - deal with it. And for the record, brainpower isn't the primary driver of wealth creation, its self-discipline. Personally, I lost my firm and my job on Wall St in 2008. Six months later I was opening my own business in a completely unrelated field. I saw what the market was asking for and I delivered it. In fact, that is the very core message of this entire site, just with women instead of employment.
I do agree, however, with the implication that moving to a highly service based economy has significant risks. IMO services should follow manufacturing, not the other way around. The problem is as the government grows, more and more services are needed just to do business in that highly regulatory environment.
What is needed is a return to a very free-market based economy and a government with no conflicts of interest. Unfortunately, we are going full speed in the other direction, right into bankruptcy.
ARUKET 7y ago
The federal reserve has been propping up this phony economy for a long term, and by letting the market do its job, there would be a crash but likely recovery within a few years
johnnygeeksheek 7y ago
I wonder if Yellen will let the bubble pop if Trump wins.
darkrood 7y ago
Trump is really hard to win because he talks too much.
He has a few good point, but his solution and rhetorics are way off.
[deleted] 7y ago
Hillary and Trump are both controversial enough that whomever wins wont be the most popular but instead the least unpopular. There are just as many people of all political leanings that just cannot stand one of these candidates, and typically both of them.
darkrood 7y ago
Spawn of Saran or antichrist himself. I vote for meteor......Gigantic meteor shower
BioshockBrah 7y ago
Basically, the Millennial generation is fucked.
I'm 30 and I live at home. I make 10/h. Almost done getting my AS in Accounting, although that will probably be worthless in the job market.
Literally every day, I'm depressed and in the back of my mind, suicide is there. At some point, life just won't be worth living in comparison how my parents lived back in the day.
Fly_Swim 7y ago
i could give you a good job/life working online, but i lived a terrible 15 years prior to myself learning about this work, so youd have to pay me for that information/sacrifice, as i only found out about this 2 years ago, TBF it was only invented 5 to 10 yrs ago
BioshockBrah 7y ago
I'd be willing to pay dude.
I_Need_More_Space_ 7y ago
Honestly, you need to consider how bad other individuals have it in other parts of the world. Your "shitty" life would be their golden lifestyle. Just the simple fact that you have plumbing and access to healthcare (ER departments must treat you) puts you over billions. Quit feeling sorry for yourself. And the simple fact that your parent's generation got it easier than any generation ever in the history of the U.S. should not trample your life. There's people who have it much worse, and they don't consider suicide. I lost my best friend to suicide. Don't fuck over your friends and family, dude.
i2amahandmodel 7y ago
I was in the same boat as you. The American dream of the 50's is dead, but there is hope. Basically the previous generation fucked up all of that. The new generation has to bring it waaay back. Give up the idea of buying a house and living your life via smartphone and soc media. Build your own life as men did before feminization.
There is a lot of land in the world where you can go and no one will bother you. Go and build your own house, craft your own things and learn to make something. You have no excuse when you can sell hand made stuff online from anywhere in the world.
I can already sense the replies of "thats not realistic, I need real money, that's not proper in the current year"
Making money that can't keep up with life costs, wasting time sending in applications to so many companies is a real choice? You tube videos can teach you all you need. Start gardening now. I moved to a small seaside town in Mexico. My parents send a couple bucks to keep me fed. Its a small amount but they would be spending more if I was living with them. I live modestly here. I'm not Hispanic and had to learn Spanish real quick. It's not a soft life but I enjoy it immensely.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
I really like your mentality.
[deleted] 7y ago
Its just going to be a very different life. If you had an AS degree in accounting 30 years ago it probably would get you a job that started out at 2.5x minimum wage and full health insurance (granted this depends on where you are in America).
BioshockBrah 7y ago
Yup.
I basically screwed myself out of every economic and academic opportunity to improve myself in my early 20s.
zedsdedforever 7y ago
If shit gets bad enough, join the military. Good restart point, but comes with four years of bullshit.
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BioshockBrah 7y ago
I wear hearing aids brah. Born technically and legally by "definition" 'deaf'.
zedsdedforever 7y ago
Damn son. Touch deck you got dealt. Follow the other brothers' advice.
Johndoesmith67 7y ago
Cooler heads have always prevailed. Suicide is never the answer. Coming from a 21 year old working for corporate electric. Find away to make bank as an accountant. Become a CPA, do taxes on a consulting basis so you pay yourself first.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
And I don't like your 'suicide is never the answer' dogma. You're fucking 21, you fucking prick. Go fuck yourself with 'nobody is allowed to commit suicide' mantra.
In existential philosophy, many philosophers agree that the last human right we'll ever battle in our lifetime is the 'end to life' right. The terminally ill in most states can't self terminate. Even though, I am not terminally ill, the 'right to die' is mine and nobody else's.
There's a reason why the state (depends on which state) wants to keep you alive. For taxes, to buy shit, to keep the economy going. If the low lives, like me, in society were to just one day, a sudden realization of our meaninglessness, to all jump a cliff, the economy would go to shit because those people are the ones that keep the economy's wheels greased.
I'm sorry to come at you like this at this time. I'm not a beta or alpha or omega or any of that stupid retarded shit. I'm an existentialist. A bodybuilder (I say this because you fucking twats seem to have the notion that a 10/10 body = getting laid). A guy meandering through life aimlessly, wondering when his life will end.
I'm not a man motivated by money but I am envy of it. In fact, I am not motivated by anything. "OH WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU GO SEE A DOCTOR AND GET SOME PILLS BRAH?" Fuck that and fuck you.
Johndoesmith67 7y ago
Yea not even gonna touch that....
BioshockBrah 7y ago
lol my bad brah, sorry went off on a tangent. Been stressful lately (I have bronchitis).
BioshockBrah 7y ago
To become a CPA, you need a Bachelors, then a Masters, then you can take the CPA exam to get your CPA. I'm not that smart to be honest.
[deleted] 7y ago
just do like 1 qtr at a time at a community college. That's what I am doing.
[deleted] 7y ago
Read enough books and practice your math enough, and you WILL be smart! You're on the right track buddy, the hustle will pay off
[deleted] 7y ago
Work in a trade. There's a huge variety of jobs that'll pay about 15 an hour starting, take about 3 months of training and only require that you're not a felon to qualify. There's a huge variety of disciplines people don't typically think of when you say, 'trades' either. Obviously there's electricians, mechanics, etc, but you can make good money for the skill grade necessary to service and repair refrigeration units, or ovens.
Not entirely sure where you see your AS in accounting going since you already know it wont end in a CPA. Frankly at this point accounting in general is staring down the axe of automation, and since it involves a huge volume of white collar jobs there's plenty of companies salivating at the idea of slicing their accounting department in half. The fallout is going to be that a lot of CPA's with a ton of experience are going to be perfectly willing to take a lower pay grade for having any job at all that's still on the market.
Or you could always go into teaching. One of the lowest IQ degrees by average. The kids are shit, and the pay's mediocre but if you can clock in and out for twenty, thirty years and you live in the right states you will get one fat retirement package.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
My mom was a teacher. She retired last year. Retirement packages will be a thing of the past in a few decades. Source: Look at Detroit and a few other cities.
We're a long road from that path but cities will be delaying, delaying, and delaying till it becomes a huge ass problem.
[deleted] 7y ago
You have to live in the right states, but you are correct that overly lavish retirement packages are only for the elite anymore.
Butthole_Mysteries 7y ago
Those years are going to pass any way. Find a way to be that smart.
fyeahsubaru 7y ago
Plus you need experience first.
My dad is a CPA and he studied for like 8 months every day. The pass rate is incredibly low.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
Yup. Fuck that shit. I ain't got the time for that. Johndoessmith67 ain't 30....
garlicextract 7y ago
Get the bachelors at a relatively cheap state school. You've already finished 50% of the degree with the associates. Take every class possible at a community college. In this job market, a BS is worth infinitely more than an AS. You don't need to get a Masters to do well man.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
I got accepted into a state school, called KSU. I just don't know how to get a loan. My parents are iffy about that. Either they think I won't do well or they want to see me out of their house asap once I get my AS and get an entry level job within the accounting field or anything better than what my job is currently paying.
I do know that a BS is worth more than an AS. It might be too late for me to sign up for fall semester classes.
edit I'll probably just get my PT certification and train people till I can go to school. IDK what I want to do man...fuck.
diablo_fuentes 7y ago
You would be surprised. People like to make their majors seem a lot harder than they are especially if they are talking to a meat head
BioshockBrah 7y ago
I don't eat that much meat...
Rufferto_n_Groo 7y ago
Also, experience. This will be far harder than the education or the exam to find.
Get out and grind taxes for H&R or Hewitt, learn and do payroll, grunt out as much practical experience as you can, and then you need to find a local shop to get the CPA experience. Don't waste effort at a midsize or larger firm. They're looking for that 20's MACC grad who they can burn at 80 hr's a week for an average $6 per hour. Yay, Salary exempt!
MustBeNice 7y ago
Just wanted to say good for you man. It's never too late to go back to college. You're already halfway to getting your bachelor's degree & from there you'll be able to re-enter the workforce to make twice what you're making now. Then from there it's merely another 2 years for your master's. Don't sell yourself short, I just graduated from a very respectable university in California, and tbh, a lot of my community college classes were just as difficult as the university ones.
30 is the new 20, and pretty soon you'll be on your way up and out
[deleted] 7y ago
It's never too late but you do need to be realistic about the debt.
A lot of college towns that also have a CC- and this is California you're talking about; they sent IOU's to professors because the people apparently have no problem letting a bunch of degenerates run the state- will have junior professors and other low level educators working at both facilities because up till the point you hit tenure, you're treated like disposable dog shit.
Unless you got into Berkley, MIT, Harvard, etc, there's absolutely no good reason to not do everything you can at the CC level first and then transfer. It's often the same material taught by the same instructors.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
I got into a University this fall but I haven't even looked at signing up for classes. They still want me to get a doctors note that I have all my vaccinations up to date. My biggest worry is just 'how do I pay for this shit'. I got awarded about 5k for the Stafford loan. Not once have my parents talked to me about this.
I think I'll just go in the Spring but the longer I keep delaying, the more I get weary of this world. I really don't have the energy as I did when I was 25. It catches up to you fast.
[deleted] 7y ago
Clean up your diet, work out, get enough sleep each night. You start to really appreciate just how much the three can affect you when you're not a kid anymore.
These days you can actually test out of classes for credit. I'd look into CLEP style methods as well. They were originally made with military personnel in mind who don't necessarily have the luxury of 4 years to go to university, but they're becoming more and more common.
MustBeNice 7y ago
I actually got accepted into Berkeley but I chose UCLA instead, but it's just a different environment altogether. With the community college most of your classes are 25-40 people, whereas with UCLA my smallest class was ~150. There are office hours and such but you don't get that one on one interaction with the professor.
That being said, both institutions had their perks, but overall I was impressed by the quality of the professors at both. Had a couple bad TA's but all the professors were on their game, whether it be at a world famous UC, or a community college in central California with 2 buildings total on campus.
As you said though, the financial aspect alone makes it worthwhile to transfer instead.
lovesfunnyposts 7y ago
Get out and work for free. Find the most successful company or person in your area and go intern and make yourself indispensable. Eventually they will find a role for you and you'll bust your ass and succeed. Don't wait for an opportunity to drop in your lap. This job market won't do that.
[deleted] 7y ago
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lovesfunnyposts 7y ago
Of course. No rights. But you want to succeed, right? Go out and give yourself a chance instead of saying the world is against me.
cmkinusn 7y ago
To work for free where i work, you need to be a 3rd year student in college and apply for a competitive internship. There is no room for free work, and the cost of a worker's pay is not the biggest cost of having them work here. 10-20/hr saved by not paying you is literally meaningless to the company I work for.
If you want opportunity, go to community college and apply for grants and scholarships or work part time or whatever and get an associates in something electronic or mechanical or whatever else that relates to manufacturing. Got an associates or a certificate? Great, apply at companies like Cobham Electronics as an assembly worker. In San Diego, they pay 10/hr and give you as much overtime as you desire. Imagine working 70 hours a week, complete with overtime and double time.
Find one of these places, work as much as possible to save money for college, then pull back to 40 hours a week and start going to college for your bachelor's degree in engineering or chemistry or physics.
If you do that, you are set. It's hard, somewhat, but totally doable. If you don't want to work so hard, join the navy, coast guard or airforce in a TECHNICAL position and try your absolute best to be on a ship or working on jets or something that will expose you to equally valuable experience.
MustBeNice 7y ago
A bachelor's in physics is not worth it really.
Also it's easy for people on Reddit to say "get an engineering major" or "start coding", but simply put, not everyone possesses the skill set to achieve this
cmkinusn 7y ago
Physics is a great degree, lol, just don't be a waste and focus on an applied arts degree in physics. Optics is one great field that pays amazingly if you get into applied physics.
If you can't work towards that degree, then say fuck it and pay for welding classes. About 8000 dollars would get you a full certification in every kind of welding, probably cheaper.
Maybe instead you get your associates and apply for various apprenticeships at manufacturing companies.
And also, I'm not talking like a guy on Reddit. I'm talking from personal, very recent experience and with knowledge of how dozens of coworkers managed to get to where they are at now.
Rommel0502 7y ago
One of my undergrad degrees is in physics. Although I went into finance, and the problem solving/quant skills it taught me were invaluable.
If you decide to go to college, dont waste your time there on a major that will not help you add value.
MustBeNice 7y ago
Anecdotal I suppose, but I lived in an Engineering frat this past year when I was a senior, & all the engineers immediately got hired at Uber, Linked In, Facebook, Spotify, you name it, while the 2 guys I knew with pure physics degrees are struggling to find a relevant job. My degree is crap too (sociology) but luckily my college has enough name value to get me an interview at least.
cmkinusn 7y ago
Remember, though, that you are supposed to be working in the field all through your college degree, so you should be building connections and setting up internships. I know 3 different engineers where I work that were hired recently and are applied physics majors. Just don't waste your time going toward theoretics, go straight for applied.
BoobToArmRatio 7y ago
A lot of top schools have physics, CS, etc. in the engineering department. Back when i was in school, pretty much everyone in engineering and physics went into software development. All the math, stats, etc majors went into finance (the good kind)
Smart people go where the money is, regardless of their degree.
cmkinusn 7y ago
If you want a cool job, go into either physics, chemistry or manufacturing engineering with a focus on process design/engineering. From third year on find every cool manufacturer you can think of and apply for internships during the summer. Think Siemens, Ford, Toyota (as in Japan, because that would be fucking awesome for you and your resume), CAT, Solar Turbines, General Dynamics, etc. Places that will put you in front of a good product and a quality product line and let you figure out how to get a part to production with the least failure. It is a really cool process to be part of.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
Brah, I gotta motherfuckin' eat and pay my health, car, and rent bills. Work for free? What motherfuckin' world do you live in?
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[deleted] 7y ago
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BioshockBrah 7y ago
The gym is not my problem if you look at my post history lol. I'v competed in two bodybuilding shows.
Rommel0502 7y ago
Sorry - if you have time to compete in bodybuilding you have time to increase your employment market value. Stop whining and get the fuck to work on yourself.
BioshockBrah 7y ago
I'm trying brah but not hard enough or at all. Thanks brah.
lovesfunnyposts 7y ago
That was my point. Turn the same energy you have for going to the gym to whatever your professional goals are. You will have the same success if you are consistent and aggressive and consistent again.
[deleted] 7y ago
Or stop spending money and time on steroid abuse and refocus it into a savings account and job experience...
BioshockBrah 7y ago
At 24k a year, I can't save for shit. Steroids are relatively cheap in comparison to bogus supplements (protein powder, creatine). Job experience? I work a job that has me doing overtime quite often and I workout after to relieve stress. Job is 1 hour one way. At the end of the day, it'll be 11 or 12 and up back at 6.
[deleted] 7y ago
That's a lie. Creatine is dead cheap. I don't know where you're finding steroids that cost less than $9 a month (roughly cost of creatine on amazon). Protein is more expensive depending on the brand and processing (hydro vs regular concentrade) obviously. However, extra protein supplements may not be required if you're getting enough protein from your diet. At 185 you shouldn't need the massive quantities that the 250+ pro bodybuilders require just to sustain.
The point of the matter is that you're spending a lot of money and time into something that isn't advancing you in your career (unless you're consider a bodybuilding career path). Which is fine - but you need to realize what you're sacrificing.
I don't know what your career field is, but you could take an hour or two out of your workout schedule (or some other time sink) to, for example, contribute to github projects (if we pretend you're in the CS field). Over time, those few hours a week really add up and it's ALL documented to your github account for resume purposes.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Almost everything is cheaper - food, clothing, transport, communications, entertainment. Food has gone up a bit recently, but not that much.
The only expensive thing... and it's a biggie... is housing which is now just batshit insane as you say.
sehajodido 7y ago
I think the real drawback is wages haven't gone up in like 30 years. Inflation makes everything rise in cost as you'd expect it to, the value is still more or less the same, but our definition of what a livable wage is hasn't moved in decades.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Wages have gone up a LOT in the last 30 years.
Inflation is the rise in cost, that's the definition of it. It's not a power that makes things go up, it's the actual resulting increase.
Yes it has. "Liveable wage" wasn't even something that people mentioned years ago.
Many people lived below a "minimum wage" and lived at home while they did it. But now everyone expects a basic first job to be able to pay their mortgage on a 7 bedroom mansion.
jackandjill22 7y ago
All the commodities are cheaper. However, the basics of life that allow for smooth transitions- property ownership, cars, degree etc. are definitely more expensive that's why everyone favours buying knickknack's over making attempts towards integrating socially. Also, subsidizes the juvenile lifestyle.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Cars are cheaper like for like. If you get one like they were in the early 90's (no AC, no powered windows, no powered steering) they cost less than they did in the early 90's. Cost of ownership for standard cars gets lower every year.
Degrees - the state is no longer buying people's crappy arts degrees for them. This is probably a good thing.
redthrow1125 7y ago
There's no such thing as a car "like for like." There are ever-increasing safety and environmental regulations that prevent the cost of cars from going down. You can't buy a car like one from the early 90's. It would not be legal to sell.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
True.
I bet a "cheapest good car" from now and a "cheapest good car" from then would be cheaper, cheaper to run, more reliable, AND meet all the new regulations.
lnTheRearWithTheGear 7y ago
Many employers don't care if you have a crappy arts degree... just that you have a degree.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Those "diplomamills" leave you with debt & no skills.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Buy me a 30k Tesla then. That's pretty Damn cheap for a fuel/energy-efficient gas-less car.
Grimsterr 7y ago
Just out of curiousity, what electric car from the early 90s did you want to use to compare the Tesla to?
jackandjill22 7y ago
The comparison of products from the 90's to contemporary conveniences wasn't my argument, /u/Mattyanon was making a point & holding the contention that if you compare the prices of technological conveniences to previous counterparts from the 90's; then everything's lower not higher.
Doesn't sound convincing to me but ask him.
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Yup, decent electric car cost $100k ten years ago. Next year it's $35k. It'll come down further too.
ABProsper 7y ago
strong agreement with what DarthExero said.
However there is an upside to this, tighter families mean a healthier society and there is no reason the atomized nuclear family needs to stay around.
Control freaks hate them but clans and tribes are power that with time and a little luck effort anyone can have. With a strong family, you can have nearly everything you need supplied by kin . This will gut the modern economy but so what, family above all else .
As for a correction, its not really going to be allowed to happen for as long as possible if the PTB's have anything to say about it. When it does probably by the house of cards collapsing no guarantee that it will help much.
Modern society is caught in an efficiency trap. Most of the new tech we create is destabilizing. The arch example is Craigslist
It created 35 good jobs in SF, worthy and noble. It basically destroyed the main revenue source for hundreds of newspapers, penny dailys and probably cost 35,000 or more jobs. Maybe 10x that
The same thing is differing measure effects every single industry, travel planning, marketing, manufacturing, you name it gutted.
No jobs, no consumption and even if housing prices are allowed to plummet and foreign and bank ownership banned, people still won't have stable incomes.
Here is the thing, this is not a new problem . The economy started to die back in the 1930's. Still back than we had a larger need for labor than now. We got a reprieve simply because Europe was destroyed in WW2 and the US was basically the only show in town .
Despite that we still had heavy regulation, 40 hour work week (it would have been 30 but that was sabotaged) child labor laws and a vast vast expansion of government .
Also re: low fertility Even the baby boom was only a reprieve and growth came from low infant levels combined with a normal birth level
Adjusted for those infant mortality levels the US was below replacement in the depression , and into WW2 (infant mortality was 6x higher than now in 1940 ) dropped back replacement native fertility on the US by 1970 to 1975 , dropped to below in 1976 and have never risen above it. Ever
And mass immigration to make up the difference isn't going to help. The only people with high fertility rates outside the religious have IQ's around 80-90 or so,
Hell even Mexico is at or near replacement
The new imports basically have guaranteed an ethnic war and social collapse since none of the new groups can sustain the society
In the end if society survives it will be authoritarian, patriarchal and economically heavily regulated and if it doesn't it will still be authoritarian, patriarchal and heavily regulated
[deleted] 7y ago
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ABProsper 7y ago
We have a top down religious state now , its designed around Democracy, Direction and Peace . Its typically called The Cathedral after the term Mencious Moldbug uses
Its a suicide pact basically, any society effected with it starts to die off. Every single society with that meme has subreplacement fertility both from its memes and from the economy
The only sub groups that don't and are not Muslim are patriarchal typically LDS and Orthodox Jews
The only other alternative is those for a political religion is Islam and that means an end to modernity
I'm not as sure about the house wife equation as you. In any case if few people have jobs , few people have families,.
In order to keep society operating you end up with a truly huge welfare state, one where people can afford something other than a concrete slab ala Stalinist architecture n plus medical. necessitates taxing and redistributing half of the GDP for that alone
On top of that day to day expense plus a functioning military is another 16% or more. Throw in state taxes and you have spending of say 75% of the GDP by the State.
Its defacto Communism and it will erode productivity badly
Now as for art output, its alas irrelevant. Hit YouTube or Deviant Art. Once you've sorted through the trash , you'll find there is more art output than there has ever been before, more content and more ideas,
They aren't growing the economy simply because the volume erodes the value. A few people an get a patron but its not a foundation for an economy.
An economy is material , mostly goods this can include E-Goods with a smattering of trades ot service based.
I suspect if we go full robot and you should never go full robot, we'll end up with a TFR of around 1.5 forever and either will be replaced with low IQ imports from Africa or other more natal areas, implode into war or if the border is closed, simply die back
The only option that will work will be authoritarian, patriarchal, economically regulated and traditionalist (I forget the last)
TheWaterTemple 7y ago
My favorite part. What an amazing fact. Social security or whatever you want to call it is literally a Ponzi scheme. I believe Ponzi schemes are illegal ha. It's all a lie.
Otherwise, mediocre post. Lots of work to put in to express the man's plight.
I lived with my parents for the last year before moving abroad and I was bringing home different girls on the regular. I had a job mind you.
I made sure to talk to my parents, discuss and establish boundaries, and I told them it was no disrespect. They never expressed a problem with it.
BardCollege_Dropout 7y ago
The best way to do this is to get one of those "female friendly job" and rock the shit out of it. Aint nothing wrong with being a nurse or a teacher, better than working for enterprise.
[deleted] 7y ago
My grandpa built a house on his own during the socialism, with help of friends and neighbors. There were no government restrictions, you just needed to buy land and material. My dad got apartment for free from the company where he worked. That company built a whole apartment complex just for their workers.
Socialism is long gone now. Jobs are scarce, and if you're a person with no work experience, your salary won't be enough to cover rent and food.
teeelo 7y ago
I live in my Moms (was parents, Dad died) basement on the family acreage. Well, mostly just sleep down there.
It's a beautiful plot of land and I am very fortunate to live there. Yeah, I had to suck up my pride when I moved back in with them at 25 (30 now) I honestly wish I had done it sooner. I plan on buying the property from my Mom when she retires.
Despite living in my parents basement I've somehow still managed to have sex with 3 different women down there. (Thanks TRP)
I exercise. Work out. Have toys and it's an awesome party spot. My cat loves it too.
Not getting married. Not having kids. Mom leaves for holidays and business trips all the time.
Get past the living with your Mom thing, and I'm a decent guy to party with.
askmrcia 7y ago
You have an advantage of your mom not being there alot. My mom was at my house all the time, no way I could bring women back to my place
ShatteredGold 7y ago
My story is almost the same as you, feel kinda good when i read your post, salutes my friend.
[deleted] 7y ago
lol same. Ive fucked two of the hottest women in my life in my rents basement. Like, I was getting laid less with less attractive women when I lived on my own near uni. If was more confident back then, this wouldnt be the case, but the point still stands. If youre using your basement dwelling position as an excuse not to get laid, it's on you more than anything
decrepitandcold 7y ago
26 here from NY, been back in my parents house since I graduated college & was getting ready to move out but why pay less for more? It's not like I freeload - I pay "rent" & my bills, buy my own groceries and do ALL the chores & yardwork. I like having a backyard, a spot to park my car, can have people over whenever I want and I have sex whenever I want to. The only downside is when girls decide to be obnoxiously loud but if my mom wants grandchildren and a happy son, she'll continue to mind her business.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Your parents seem incredibly chill.
Merica911 7y ago
Living at home will work for you while still in your mid 20s but it will get different with the girl situation when hitting 30s.
Once the girls get fucked by Chad, all around the house, loud as fuck, on top of the kitchen table at the middle of the day, when resorting back to you trying to be extra quite so you don't wake up Pops, it's not gonna work for these girls anymore like how it worked in your 20s.
I'm not dissing you, just letting you know don't get to comfortable as years go on. The girls that fuck you in your 20s that fuck you in your 30s will have different intention.
Bearhardy 7y ago
Well I get your point but I think should want to get out more for himself that the girls, cause he can just keep dating 20 something girls, now marriage and kinds is another deal.
wont_tell_i_refuse_ 7y ago
20-something girls who are open to dating 30-something men aren't dating 30-something men who live with their parents.
Bearhardy 7y ago
I have dated girls for months without them knowing my age and my sister (23) was dating a 30 something guy who lived with his parents.
There are girls that care and girls that don't, find those that don't and your life will be simpler, and that goes anything you think it may be holding you down in the dating game.
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Drenmar 7y ago
I come from a culture where living with your parents until you marry is normal. When you marry you move next door or move to a big house/apt and take your parents with you.
cynicalsimon 7y ago
I don't understand why there is no violence and violent protests, or war. the cost of living has become immensely high and mass corruption, on an international level, has never been this high, in the history of our species.
Also, that's not even mentioning mass censorship, drug policies and third wave feminism.
Apparently people enjoy being stepped on because this is the state of our species and it has never looked this bad.
dabrah1 7y ago
The people have been doing it to themselves for decades by slowly but consistently socializing our country.
shabaesky 7y ago
Wish I could afford to live on my own, rent in Los Angeles is ridiculous.
LLL3peat 7y ago
I live with family. It sucks. Getting my own place soon however at does suck knowing I have eyes watching me 100% of the time.
Yeah income sucks. As the man you're supposed to be a provider and she lives at home until marriage or so. That's supposed to happen in Spanish cultures or something. I have a feeling women are going to try and use me as a provider once I have my own place. Nah its not happening.
Little by little I'm stacking paper and investing. Living underneath my means and looking to come out and have that high SMV on top by the age of 35.
Lift, save, invest, and watch all my friends turn into fat slobs and can't afford anything.
Johndoesmith67 7y ago
Yo you are going to work and what...just wait till you are 35 to start fucking? WTF? Bro you will not have fucking as an interest by then (no offense to anyone trying to prove a point) Get that SMV pumping upwards on a daily basis and have it on the climb by 22-23. Girls aren't complex.
LLL3peat 7y ago
Maybe I should have worded it differently. Smv increases weekly but I'm playing the end game for 35 by financials. In in my late 20s for what it's worth.
Aiming to drop another 10 pounds and see what happens within the next 4 months. Previous fat ass now just under 20% bf. Goal is to be as ripped as possible by December and freak out the family and stat true to myself.
BigMan1844 7y ago
Half the problem is that colleges don't prepare kids for the real world with any meaningful professional skills. Short of a STEM degree or something like Finance/Accounting most kids graduate and have no clue where the fuck they will go or what they will do with their degrees. I went for the liberal arts meme in school; fortunately I stumbled into a sales job and it turns out I'm good with people so I make a decent living for myself at 24.
Furthermore most parents don't teach their kids meaningful financial skills or how to function around adults. I love my folks and they raised me well, but they didn't give me a damn bit of meaningful advice about getting by on my own-- not even about balancing a budget. The biggest lesson I ever got from them was watching them lose their pants in the housing market crash. That taught me to live below my means and put away money every month.
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TheBloodEagleX 7y ago
Initially that wasn't even the point of college.
CreamiestCream 7y ago
Probably want to ease up on the 'funnily' nest time.
Da fuk kinda jedi mind trick is this shit?
MattyAnon Admin 7y ago
Well of course. Women generally are supported by a slightly older man. So comparing both genders at the same age cutoff will skew the stats.
Overkillengine 7y ago
And then they get pissed when they get treated as no better than a whore....after subsidizing their finances via sex. Lulz.
[deleted] 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.9948
SirSubwayeisha 7y ago
I want to move back home with my parents. I'm trying to save to buy a duplex/triplex in the next 12 months. If you let your mission/goals steer you, a bitches' opinion on your living situation means nothing.
dabrah1 7y ago
I'm 25, live in an apartment, pay for all my own shit, and just bought a duplex at 25, and will be buying more very soon. Don't leech off your parents, they raised you up until now, its time for you to go out on your own and pave your own way.
[deleted] 7y ago
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dabrah1 7y ago
hey, if your paying that much anyway might as well be on your own too
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motel08 7y ago
Oh yeah. Blame women for stealing mens jobs.
AlerioX 7y ago
I am a 23 year old german and live with my parents because I had to move out of my appartment because I will move to munich in two month. I always use my parents house as a bus stop between switching from one city to another.
My older sister (25) would never move in again because she 'needs to be independent' (= needs to get lots of alpha cock through tinder and she couldn't do this in this tiny village my parents live at + she can't be a little slut while my parents are around).
Sementeries 7y ago
Sounds like all girls who want or are riding on the CC. Couple of girls I know have chosen to get a big house mainly because one of the girls dad owns the property than go to uni.
Marcus1138 7y ago
My sister's the same - refuses to stay at home or room with people - needs her own apartment. You'd think it'd be the opposite with guys wanting more sexual freedom, but I guess that's cultural indoctrination talking.
WeedDaddy 7y ago
Most guys are realistic of their chances and realize they don't need their own place for masturbation.
[deleted] 7y ago
Funny. But my parents have issues with me even dating at all. I do think think I could do it after college.
trancedj 7y ago
Guys like you are what keep me coming back here. Yeah, I enjoy helping the newbs swallow the rp - but I've met some really cool guys here. You're on the list, for whatever's that's worth ;)
The "Nerd Rapture" comment had me laughing so hard. I imagine I'm supplying the machine with a certain amount of brain power myself. Although some give more than I ever could.
Ecclesia_Andune 7y ago
What annoys me so much is people try to sell this as an alpha/beta thing, when it just isn't realistic or sensible to move out unless you're in a relationship imo.
I'm pretty much 100% sure i won't be doing any long term relationships, and as such, i would have to pay for a place on my own, the council tax, bills, food etc. I'm on 25K(£), which means i could probably do it, but throw in the fact that i need a car for work and suddenly that figure gets cut into.
The house i live in now (with parents) is in a safe, quiet, beautiful area, and i'm pretty much left alone. i don't really see a reason to leave, other than the fact that living at home means 100% i cannot bring chicks back. (Parents are total, total prudes)
Moving out will also limit my flexibility a lot. What if i want to change career? Go back into education? (I pay my parents a fair amount of rent so i'd have to work still, but it less)
Honestly the reasons why we're in this state have been listed below, Boomers, suicidal immigration policy, the neutering of modern men, their position in society, pathetic interest rates etc.
I don't see it getting any better
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
I'll bite. I live at home currently. I'm in my mid twenties. However this is purely just to be cheap. I even live in a cheap area. No northeast or westcoast high prices for me. I'm saving up for my own house and I'll be going to professional school soon. Most young men I know that live at home also live for financial reasons and to save money. Women can't do this because them having a slutty lifestyle is usually not compatible with parents. Its easy for guys though, my parents let me come and go as I please (the only stipulation was I needed a plan and a temporary job). When I want to fuck a girl I just go to her place, and rarely to my parents. I have not had many problems with dating. Girls in my area don't seem to care and I get plenty of pussy.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Girls don't question why you're always leaving to their house, because the majority I talk to prefer to get screwed away from where they stay especially when they're younger.
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
I usually just tell them I live at home. I give them the gap year argument and sometimes I lie and give them a fun story. Every once in awhile a girl gets turned off by it, but there are so many women here that I just say next and move on. 5 universities in my area also make it great. Including one that is over 50% girls.
[deleted] 7y ago
the situation is so common now is the thing. It might shift a bit depending on where you live and the attitudes therein, but for the most part people ARE adapting. Some of the hottest chicks ive fucked were when I was living at home in my mid 20s, and not one of them gave a shit. People really overstate the problem in my honest opinion
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
Definitely in my experience
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ScarletNumbers 7y ago
Aren't most universities over 50% girls?
maxbrooksmacbook 7y ago
When I went to Miami it was like 65% women as incoming freshmen
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
Yep, but this particular one is mostly upper middle class sorority girls. Its TCU. And there aren't enough men for them.
RedSugarPill 7y ago
I hear lots of girls at TCU have serious daddy issues. Would love to troll for some T&A around that area ;)
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
You are correct. Either the dads are in business or they didn't want to come home to vapid wives. It's awesome, you should definitely visit fort worth.
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ImagineGawds 7y ago
Serious question. I'm a 24 year old living at home.
What the hell can I do to earn more money and move out?
dabrah1 7y ago
If you have to ask that question on the internet, with no details about you whatsoever, you might as well just buy a fucking lottery ticket and pray.
ImagineGawds 7y ago
Well what other details you want fam?
dabrah1 7y ago
Degree? Certifications? Job history ? Marketable skills? It's hard to tell you how to make money when you literally don't say anything about yourself.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Always aim to get a professional degree, such as medicine, dentistry, accounting, or engineering. You want to be able to sell your knowledge and skills to people who value them.
egoisenemy 7y ago
Track your finances, know where your money is going, realize that most material things are bullshit (unless it's for your true hobby/passion), budget, build people skills and network (life is about who you know), change careers like going into STEM or figuring out how people are making bank in your career field
ImagineGawds 7y ago
This is the most useful answer here. Quick question what is STEM?
blackierobinsun2 7y ago
Science tech engineering math/medicine
hownao 7y ago
iCracked, Uber, various other ready-to-play entrepreneurship things
ImagineGawds 7y ago
Never heard of icracked before but this sounds promising
gjarreau 7y ago
What do you do now? You can have room mates but if you want to earn more money, you may need to do something different. I'm in IT and I wish I had gotten into real estate when I was your age. Seems like there is no ceiling in that market.
dabrah1 7y ago
If your talking about being an agent, the 80/20 rule is strong. 20 percent of the agents make 80% of the money, and someone just starting will def not be in the top 20% anytime soon.
ImagineGawds 7y ago
right now I'm a Jr web developer for a marketing agency but I've started buying and selling things on ebay for a little extra cash flow.
When you say get into real estate you mean flipping houses?
gjarreau 7y ago
Thinking about it, that and/or renting.
Mr-Ultimate 7y ago
I wouldn't get into real estate right now if I were you. I would suggest honing your skills and moving up in your career.
LYFT_PROMO_MN123 7y ago
move to big city, drive for uber, you might have to work 50 hours a week, but you will make 3-5 grand a montha nd that is enough to get your own studio or 1bd for 800-1400 a month
go to used car dealership, buy used prius or sonata 2014 with 20,000 miles. put 1 grand down, go to bank ask for loan, i went to us bank, make payments once a month over 5 years, should be like 300 a month
insurance for 6 months with rideshare added is like 800 bucks.
work mornings, you want airport runs, like 3am- noon shifts.
The work is there sign up, move out, go to the big city, get a place, work all the time, I make a grand or two a week driving for uber, i am 25, have my own place in MPLS, have 5 figures ina vanguard index fund and a 2013 sonata limited paid off, was just 3 years ago Iwas living at home.
SIGN UP FOR UBER AND LYFT, move to thriving white part of town just outisde of city, mine is uptown, but every city has a trendy area right next to downtown where all the rich hang, move there, or close to. Go to the money.
Edit: I have no college degree, and got a drug felony at 19(for weed, expunged now so I have a clean record now), was working at liquor store making 9 bucks an hour when I was 22, now 25, if I can do it, ANYBODY can, unless you have a DUI, lol Uber won't take you.
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TRP_Minor 7y ago
I assume this would work for LA, yes? Also, I wouldn't know the city well, but I assume I can just put the location on the phone's GPS and go, right?
Also I'm kind of worried becuase I've heard that uber is being sued for some reason but I might be remembering wrong.
LYFT_PROMO_MN123 7y ago
works perfect in LA, the uber app gives you step by step directions just like google maps.
call an uber right now, it costs 6 bucks, the driver will give you the 411, they are always helpful for those looking to sign up.
JUST DO IT TRUST ME
or just go to uber.com and sign up. sign up for lyft to, you'll be driving in less than a week.
edit: uberpeople.net go to LA section, see for yourself what X drivers are making in your area. I see guys driving X in LA clearing 1500 a week in 50 hours.
TRP_Minor 7y ago
Thanks man, this has been really helpful.
dabrah1 7y ago
Thats awesome man. I drive for Lyft/Uber, and am a lyft mentor. I make between 1-2k a week working maybe 30 hours. I have a college degree, haven't felt any need to use it yet though lol. Keep doing your thing.
kick_his_ass_sebas 7y ago
Ask for loan? Hahaha good one
IndescisiveUser 7y ago
Being 27, this makes me feel less bad for moving back in with my parents. Financially it makes sense til I have a stable job and building up a savings for a home. Then again I'm transitioning out of the military so I'd say it's a particular reason. I've heard my generation called the boomerang generation because we'll venture far away and the end up back home.
quaestor44 7y ago
This is more a symptom of excessive government than male social change.
meanwhile_in_SC 7y ago
Was looking for this.. absolutely a symptom of government entering (and as government is wont to do, becoming a legal monopoly on) the 'provider' market. Women don't need men so long as government can give them welfare and benefits for those poor poor single mothers.. I'm interested to see how professional women start reacting when they realize that their taxes (especially if men aren't working as much and paying less taxes) are going to their single mother sisters but they aren't having children themselves.. Wonder how long female socialist tendencies last then.
NotNormal2 7y ago
Wrong. We would be in much worse shape if not for government.
etherealembryo 7y ago
No parents but if i did have them i wouldnt be ashamed of living with them. Goals over relationships.
[deleted] 7y ago
Hmm the time for a revolution is getting closer and closer. Hopefully the disenfranchised males understand it is the oligarchy they need to liquidate instead of just lashing out at all the other unfortunate plebes.
worktillyouburk 7y ago
i get job offers all the time specifically looking for woman, its just not fair why is it ok to be so blatantly be so sexist, when will there be quotas to be meet for male hires?
PedophilePriest 7y ago
Ive lived on my own for years and moved home a few years ago. I love it. I get to know my parents as adults, and live a high quality of life. girls don't mind, plates dont mind they usually love my old folks.
The thing it made me realize is, I don't plan to marry, and don't care to cohabit....so why would I want to own a house? I mean ever. If you gave me a million dollars I wouldn't move out from my parents, what the hell would I do with a two bedroom that I live in alone?
Men don't need much to be happy, I'd be happier in a cabin in the woods than in a typical house, those are for betas who are living in a fantasy.
Might feel different If I lived in the city, and I have, but I prefer the country vastly more...Easy access to women is the only drawback I've felt.
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[deleted] 7y ago
No dating and tell us where you are 24/7 huh? Same. Can't do it.
drew967 7y ago
I feel your pain. If everyone's parents acted like asian parents, there would be no one living with their parents.
BlueFairyPainter 7y ago
If I get a cold, they'd nurse my body as well as they can so I can go to school asap. At the same time, they blame me for staying up late (sometimes for school work!), going out to have fun with friends even during the day, saying it's physically exhausting for my body and there are all kinds of germs outside, for not eating all kinds of veggies (you can never eat enough because this is clearly just an excuse), and give me hour-long talks about how I should have listened to them. Sure, if I listen to you, I will never catch a single cold. Suuuuuure.
I'm 17 and looking for a room in another city. I can't take another second of this.
[deleted] 7y ago
I got the opposite. Financially irresponsible black parents. If I kept living with them I guarantee they would start charging me rent that costs as much as an apartment. Hell, they actually did for the 2 weeks I lived there after getting a job.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
That's what some Puerto Rican families do around here.
All I can say is it fucks up the family and at least one of those kids will be insane or in jail directly because of it
goemon45 7y ago
My parents just bought a 300k house while I'm in college
tenin2010br 7y ago
I got white parents that do the same. Make me pay for my car and everything related to it, insurance, groceries and a small stipend for rent. Sucks since I'm just scraping by with minimum wage full time and paying my tuition. It's a fucking vacuum and I don't know where the money goes. I'd move out but I don't have friends who could be roommates and it's too expensive to live on my own here. Once I graduate college I'll be pulling up the roots and moving to the opposite end of the country from my parents. Can't stand them.
[deleted] 7y ago
Family is a motherfucker. He is asking me for bread to break then has the nerve, in the same sentence, to tell me he just got done paying for his truck (600-700) hundred dollar car note. So you tell me you need 1/3 of my pay check, then in the same breath tell me you had more money than that open up for you monthly? I tell you what, you show me your goddamn bills, I make you a budget and that way you don't end up broke at the end of every month.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Indian kid here, Asian/Indian parents, they're a blessing believe it or not. Asian/Indian parents care for the success of their kids more than anything. They will take care of your food, clothing, laundry, etc.
Sure they may drive me crazy from time to time and may be overprotective but in they end they care a lot. Now that I'm moving out in a few weeks (University), I'm going to miss them a lot. Count your blessings, once you leave them, you'll start missing them fairly quickly.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
Ok, just becareful what you wish for. Family, especially parents, are worth it in my opinion since they are the only people who give a damn about your wellbeing and will never betray you (traditional family members won't anyway, can't say the same about the current generation).
I've always been a very traditional person. At the very least don't dump them completely and try to take care of them as they grow old and weak since they took care of you when you were young. I expect my kids to do the same with me.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I'll probably get lost in the sea of comments, but I'm 23 and living with my parents. Let me explain it, though.
I'm a Veteran, who's getting 90% of the GI Bill because I tried to pop my dome piece with my service rifle after coming back from afghan. Fun times. Not looking for sympathy, that's just part of the explanation.
Because of that, I only get 90% of the GI Bill's Basic Allowance for Housing. Living in Hawaii, that means it's proportionally increased to adjust for the very high cost of living. Going as a full time student, even with that 10% missing, I still get a check of roughly $2,700 for every full month of class I complete (with half checks for half months, since the semesters start and end in the middle of months.)
I've been doing this for about three semesters now, moving onto my fourth. And even with spending boatloads of money on cigarettes before (recently quit) and booze (Had a bad drinking problem, thanks marine corps!) and having to take care of the auto repair bill for my family's only car(close to 4 grand so far IIRC), I still have $12k in my savings account.
Why?
Because not getting laid every other night is a small price to pay for living rent free.
Needless to say, not every young man who stays at home is a jobless loser. Some of us are lazy ass vets who just want to move on with our lives, but are having difficulty doing so. Or are going to college.
[deleted] 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.2235
[deleted] 7y ago
5.56. Bullet was a dud, surprisingly enough. Put the M4 barrel in my mouth, pulled the trigger, click, no fire. After that, I decided that was God telling me to not be a retard.
PoisonBlaque 7y ago
I have 3 sons and if every bit of money they have goes to college, they can hang in my garage as long as they wish. I'm sick of hearing this millennial bullshit too. They didn't choose their economy and had zero control over it when it counted.
Theotropho 7y ago
it's okay, Hillary is marching us off to war with Russia and that'll thin the herd a bit.
mykonos_rm 7y ago
Here's something to consider. At 29 I went from making six figures to out of a job for reasons beyond my control. Six months later the savings dried up as I searched for comparable work to finally having to move in with my fam. Fortunately a month later I was able to find solid work and resume my old lifestyle but the dawning point is...what would have happened if the family wasn't there? Fact is the nuclear family truly is a bedrock of a solid economy since it provides a non-government based helping hand for when you truly need it. But as today's society continues to diminish reasons for a man to get married whats gonna happen to following generations when shit hits the fan? Seriously puts the western decline into focus when you sit down and think about it.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.1007
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Francis009 7y ago
That reminded me of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjBuicfuJ8I
If you have less resources then women, your only option left is to be Hot if you wanna get laid.
Darkone06 7y ago
That honestly explains it perfectly .
grewapair 7y ago
I know lots of good looking losers who got married. Looks count way more than money.
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[deleted] 7y ago
They got duped, son, DUPED
Bearhardy 7y ago
Yeah getting married is the opposite of an accomplishment... ask any married guy!
HeatseekingLogicBomb 7y ago
It really depends on all the variables. We can't be intellectually honest if we don't address those. It's like the wage gap myth. There are plenty of factors that go in to the equation for both sides. Do they have kids? Marital status? Relationship history? Looks? Salary?
If it's a shit job, and they (men) are good looking, it balances out. If men are average looking and have a great job, it balances out. It's always a combination.
Philhelm 7y ago
It's definitely possible to get laid when you're unemployed and living with your parents, even when you're 30 and shouldn't have an excuse. You don't even have to lift, be an alpha stud, or have great game. Granted, you'll have to lower your standards a bit, but not nearly as much as one would think.
The only thing that I had going for me was that I have probably a 7/10 face, owned a vehicle, was in school, and was fortunate to have at least some cash from the GI Bill. I never even lied about my situation when asked. I was clearly better off than Mr. World of Warcraft, but the incel, six figure engineers have no excuse.
[deleted] 7y ago
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OmniscientOCE 7y ago
I would really be in favour of this kind of lifestyle if it just tweaked it a tiny tiny bit. What if you took your growing vegetables thing to another level, to the point that you could start earning some money off it? Selling at local markets or something. Now, imagine if heaps of people did this. You just made available a wide variety of fresh fruit and veg to a small community. Yes, I know this happens already but it's such a nice thing to think about.
ryno55 7y ago
You feed off of other people's taxes, pay your mom a pittance of rent, spend your time growing a garden, and nurse kids like a woman!
[deleted] 7y ago
Being poor exposes you to all kinds of shit.
Muslim rapefugees getting moved right next to your place? Tough luck, you got no cash to move away.
Muslim rapefugees wanting to start a new caliphate? Tough luck, you'll have to fight them in a civil war as your traiterous government doesn't give a fuck.
History is full of poor young peasant men that lived a short, uneventful life.
I'm rather in prison than living like a peasant but that's just me.
[deleted] 7y ago
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[deleted] 7y ago
I'm not afraid either but I grew up next to those subhuman pieces of shit. There is a reason their countries are 3rd world shitholes and they move to the west for welfarebux - they're genetic trash, unable to form collaborative societies and their IQs are pretty low in general.
Without the white man's oil bux arab countries would still be dirt poor and they would be fucking camels instead of russian hookers.
Red pill on race: Just like women and men aren't equal, neither are races.
Red pill on money: If you're poor you're likely to suffer from the consequences of poverty + only the lowest SMV women will stick around.
[deleted] 7y ago
100 a week in social welfare. Do you not understand that your existence is a net negative for your countrymen? That they would be better off without you? Doesn't this fucking bother you?
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attemptist 7y ago
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a proponent of checking out, but isn't the idea around here that society has failed us as men and we don't owe it shit until it cleans up its act?
aznredpill 7y ago
Red pill is about being your best and adding value around you.
Your lifestyle isn't the problem, it's your source of income that's a drain on society
garlicextract 7y ago
The point is to not play captain save-a-ho. You should still have your own job though.
garlicextract 7y ago
The point is to not play captain save-a-ho. You should still have your own job though.
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attemptist 7y ago
I have kids, two out of three being boys, so I am invested in improving things (honestly, I don't think it is achievable without a collapse and reset).
But I don't think the idea that we should "man up" and feed the current system is going to change a damn thing. Maybe prolong the decline.
I've never taken welfare - not even when I was laid off shortly after my divorce, laden with all the debts she ran up and none of the assets I earned, living with my parents and being chased by debt collectors (I worked my ass off and paid everything back alone). I don't think it's the best option for guys to check out. Things are bad, but if you have the information that is shared here, you can avoid the traps and win.
But I fail to see the connection between propping up this system with participation and changing it. I've seen how it'll repay you after your years of service. Let it fucking burn.
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[deleted] 7y ago
yeah there is no equivalent safety net like this in America. This was discussed in a previous topic, but if you want to live that life in America, it's significantly harder and more complicated.
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RedDeadCred 7y ago
Damn it's one thing to be a useless idiot, it's another thing to be proud of it.
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RedDeadCred 7y ago
You mean other people will work to automate jobs while also providing for you. Yes, you are a useless idiot.
Reordin 7y ago
Hey just curious, what sort of consequences are you saying there are for the older generation that judges you? Not sure I follow, so maybe you could elaborate a bit more on that.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Reordin 7y ago
There will be plenty of standouts in your generation that step up and shine. They will be the world changers. More than a few of them will be the type of man this sub strives to create. I'm happy for you and your isolationist life, maybe that will work out great. Then again, maybe it won't, and the world will miss the leader you could have become. Consequences, you know?
[deleted] 7y ago
I think world war 3. Probably women get too desperate and start doing crazy things.
[deleted] 7y ago
Those beta revenge fantasies. Women usually come out just fine in any situation because they have a product men always want "sex/reproduction". Men produce but not every man is capable of producing materials that women want. Women are born with something men want, not so for men.
Geckobird 7y ago
We'll leave trump for that one
etotheitauequalsone 7y ago
Isn't Trump more isolationist? He said he's tired of us having to ensure world peace
obama_loves_nsa 7y ago
Like when Hillary started a war in Libya her first week as Sec of State? Man you guys have 0 facts on your side. Complete blue filled emotion like every time. GIB ME DATS FREE MONEY. Getting pretty desperate I see. "BUT TRUMP IS LITRLARALY HITLER!!1111/!??1!!" give it up man, you look like a retarded nerd
[deleted] 7y ago
You're actually going to blame a religious war on Hilary? I don't like her either, but at least be realistic and use valid points.
You probably shouldn't call other people retarded when you're clearly far from an intelligent person. Also, your writing makes you look like a petulant child who lives to be contrary to other people's opinions.
yummyluckycharms 7y ago
The government in many western countries has pretty much setup this situation for the economy and western men.
Naturally, all of this would lead to men staying at home longer - but nothing will change since the Matriarchy doesnt care as it doesnt impact them yet.
The best way to enact change is to support men anyway you can, use tax shelters to starve the beast, dont volunteer unless its for male causes (ie. homeless shelter), dont help law enforcement, and dont enroll in the army. The last thing you want to do is to support the system that is oppressing you, and to slow down its collapse.
Darkone06 7y ago
Yeah but besides food ninen
AnindoorcatBot 7y ago
If I didn't have an amazing DINK (Dual income no kids) couple that basically adopted me and let me live in their mega house. I'd be living at home (already moved back once when I got laid off), or on a friends couch.
I still don't have anything of value besides a car & a drum set, bank acct gets wiped out every week for one thing or another. And I'm gainfully employed, I can't fathom being able to save enough money for a down payment on a HOUSE. I got 3 years till 30, don't see it getting any better then.
First post here, been around for a while. Hi.
IIIbrohonestlyIII 7y ago
DINKs are second only to DILDOs. Dual Income Little Dog Owners.
i2amahandmodel 7y ago
So how did that happen? Who do you have to sleep with?
My friend and his gf graduated college and were adult adopted by a millionaire older bachelor.
i_forget_my_userids 7y ago
You basically live with your parents.
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I_Need_More_Space_ 7y ago
I think people need to quit picking bullshit degrees. Your local university is like a used car lot. The counselor will sell you any dream you want, and the return on investment does NOT have to be there for them to keep making their $. They just need the steady stream of suckers who believe they can go after their dreams. Fuck your dreams. Find a degree or trade that has a good 10 year outlook, pays your bills adequately, and gives you freedom. Stop getting bull-shit philosophy/sociology/marketing/whatever degrees that are worthless.
[deleted] 7y ago
It all depends on the university you're at with respect to what degree you're working to attain.
Obviously a digital art degree from DeVry university, Full Sail, or some other bullshit for-profit college isn't going to get you anywhere other than in a boat load of debt.
If you get your B.A. in philosophy from Columbia University with a 3.5GPA or higher, you'll probably have a rather large network upon graduating and not be struggling to find employment that pays well.
If you go to University of Alabama, study sociology, and just spend all of college partying, not working, no internships, no network, and graduate with like a 2.7 GPA, then yeah… You're probably going to have a hard time finding work related to your degree because you didn't take your education that seriously.
A degree is only "bullshit" if you bullshit your way to earn it. Colleges don't really give a fuck if you retain anything you were taught or didn't get anything out of your courses to apply to the real world. That's your responsibility.
I_Need_More_Space_ 7y ago
You probably already have a rather good network if you get into landmark or Ivy League schools, or you are an affirmative action/feminist agenda acceptee. The VAST majority does not have the connections to get into such programs like Columbia.
So realistically, people need to have a plan for a career path with their degree and forego shitty degrees period.
I went to the U of A (Not Alabama) for my professional degree. I pick my employment contracts not due to the name of my school or my connections. I pick them through my proven resume and my place atop my profession. Connections don't get you everything. Nor does a fancy 1/4 million $ degree.That only works for the few lucky ones who get into such institutions based on connections.
I_Need_More_Space_ 7y ago
I much prefer to rely on own professional self worth over relying on fickle connections or an expensive Uni price tag.
[deleted] 7y ago
Not just Columbia.. I mean any private college that has a reputation for getting its students employment. A person could probably study english lit at NYU or anthropology at BU and find employment given they're passionate about their learning and do well in their courses.
There really isn't any such thing as a shitty degree, just shitty students who don't put in enough effort or just plain not passionate about the university/college experience.
I_Need_More_Space_ 7y ago
So you're arguing that you can make a living with a shitty degree from a school if you have the "drive?" Get real. There are tons of sheltered kids who get shitty degrees from reputable schools, have the drive, yet sink in the real world due to their lack of independent thought, leadership, and creativity. They are perfectly formed worker bee's who don't know how to produce honey, and their shitty degree does not work. That's why women, feminists, and Blue pill men are complaining to the Fed Govt. over their massive debt with no prospect to ever flourish. Baristas working at Starbucks with degrees hanging on their studio apartment walls are a prime example of this.
If these worker bees just got a real degree in health care per se, they would be fine. Then they couldn't complain and bitch about wanting free health care. If people want affordable health care, there needs to be a surplus of healthcare workers which would drive the costs down. But, nooo... people want to get their english shit and philosophy degrees (huge surplus of those degrees), fail, then demand free healthcare.
Woooooolf 7y ago
Millenials - feeling sorry for yourself isnt going to help anything. Lots of blame being placed on the current economic state or prior generations. The fact is, this is still America and you have the ability to have a very successful career. No, things arent the way they used to be. However, I will say that the millenial generation is indeed pretty lazy, and easily discouraged. Those who are willing to put in the effort will be rewarded by the sheer fact that all of your peers already gave up.
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rebuildingMyself 7y ago
Don't forget foreign investors buying up property everywhere (and not even living in them) which artificially inflates the prices for people that want a fucking roof over their heads that they actually own.
B_Campbell 7y ago
I think this is one of the negative aspects of income inequality too. Dumb money looking for somewhere to go drives up things like housing and commodities for people trying to live.
PlanB_pedofile 7y ago
That's just opening the homes up for squatters.
I remember stories of foreclosed homes sitting on the market for over a year and when the realator came to sell, he discovered some family of 5 living in the house. Then comes the months of eviction and court to get them out. Some rare cases the squaters won, getting a free house! Something about squaters rights.
bam2_89 7y ago
Another reason why property taxes should replace all other taxes.
allnamesfckintaken 7y ago
not everywhere, it's only in some big cities. it's not happening in 99% of usa. they are a negligible part of the high prices of houses in usa. even without foreign buyers, houses in san fran, boston, la and nyc would still be priced out of the middle class.
[deleted] 7y ago
Which is bullshit considering you couldn't buy property in China unless you were a Chinese national for decades. It's ridiculous that the average home price in Vancouver is $1 million plus when the average salary is $40,000.
perdill 7y ago
Last year something around 70% of all homes listed for sale in West Vancouver were bought by chinese.
The issue really is when they don't rent the place out - that's pretty fucking ridiculous. Tax increases are being proposed (may have passed already) for homes that aren't lived in or rented out.
[deleted] 7y ago
Interesting. I visited Vancouver recently and I did notice a good amount of wealthy asians...
Expectations1 7y ago
A one bedroom with a carspace 8km from Sydney CBD is about 600 to 650k now...
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Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
Goddamn that was the stupidest fucking thing. I understand ownership and like it, but a lot of the Chinese ones are doing it to hide their money or just keep it somewhere.
perdill 7y ago
Laws just changed making it harder for the chinese to invest in foreign real estate. Lots of people are expecting price correction in Canada, specifically vancouver and the GTA because of it. Occupancy rates are lowish and prices are appreciating literally month over month
OmniscientOCE 7y ago
Same thing happening in NZ
CreamiestCream 7y ago
So you want a government solution to a government problem? Statism is blue pill in its purest form, Nancy.
GetrichonIMP 7y ago
top-notch-alpha 7y ago
Hey my family is planning to sell the house and relocate should we wait or go for it? Living in ontario toronto
perdill 7y ago
Where in Toronto are you selling and where are you relocating to? Also, upsizing or downsizing? Can be a good or bad move depending on variables. Feel free to PM
SaiHottari 7y ago
Their solution is a tax on vacant properties' owners. We'll see if it actually works. If the tax isn't high enough it won't desuade foreign buyers. If it is too high, it will make renting out properties risky and those that can't afford to buy will take a hit.
perdill 7y ago
I've worked with a lot of foreign buyers myself, mostly Chinese.
I honestly don't see a reasonable tax that will dissuade foreign buyers but not scare domestic investors - these people have more money than you can imagine. Doubling or tripling the tax rate won't cause them to blink an eye (especially when the detached home pricing is appreciating more than 8% year over year anyways), but will make Canadian property investors think twice.
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
That's great, my hope is this starts a new trend with cities doing this.
wax_idiotic 7y ago
Agreed. It's prevalent in Los Angeles too.
[deleted] 7y ago
In California its really hitting the high end markets. There are huge homes in Newport Beach which have been empty for years and are just investment properties for Chinese and sometimes Arab investors.
TorboLeto 7y ago
So later, rather than now, be a better time to buy?
perdill 7y ago
It's pure speculation what this will mean for the market. Right now, the housing market in the GTA and Vancouver is insanely heated. Multiple offers on everything, everything going for more than it was just months ago.
A townhome sold in April for 525K and relisted and sold last week at 610K in 48 hours. This is not uncommon at all - depending on how you look at things, by not jumping into the market, you're losing money.
In my opinion, there's not going to be a massive correction, most people aren't even aware this change has happened yet. Personally, I think there's going to be a slow down before the fall and a terribly slow winter, but I don't think it's going to be nearly as bad as some are predicting.
RedDeadCred 7y ago
Reminds me of the big short...
altxatu 7y ago
It's a housing bubble and it's going to have to pop eventually.
We were doing the same thing a decade ago. It was easier to get a housing loan (to increase homeownership rates) so there was more competition. So people needed a larger loan. In our case those people couldn't afford the loan, defaulted and got foreclosed on. Then everyone realized the houses were overvalued due to increased competition and the banks couldn't get back a lot of that money. There was a bunch of other fuckery but that's the long story short.
The bubble will always pop.
TheBeardedMarxist 7y ago
It isn't so much hiding as property being one of the few investments they can make.
[deleted] 7y ago
Theyre treating real estate like stocks and saving the property to sell at a later date for profit.
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Diepolt17 7y ago
They make sure that there kids and wife has a safe place to live and emergency money for the family. I would do the same.
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
You need 10 to 20 houses for that? At least rent some of them out.
Diepolt17 7y ago
With renting you decrease demand. You want it to increase.
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
Not to where it becomes almost impossible to buy a house. It may be good for them, but its not good for me, so I don't care. Luckily they aren't in my area yet.
[deleted] 7y ago
No. Its a place to park money and they can sell it in a hurry if they need cash. The investors rarely ever even see the actual home.
BobPlager 7y ago
This doesn't make sense. There are umpteen better ways to make money on investment than buying up real estate and doing nothing with it. Why would paying property tax and not getting rent income be a good investment whatsoever?
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FunAndFreedom 7y ago
Outside of a few key markets, Chinese aren't buying at a rate that effects the country's aggregate price levels. They are scape goats for a nationwide problem.
The main reason property values are inflating is demographical. White people and asians do not want to live in multicultural areas and they don't want their kids going to schools rated below an 8/10 on greatschools.org.
This sucks, it's not fair, but when you look at buying patterns this is undoubtably the case. In my market if you took identical houses separated by less than 4 miles, the house with the good school system and low diversity would be nearly double the price of the house with a bad school.
The reason is pure supply and demand:
Imagine you have an area with 10 school districts and all 10 of them are homogenous and similar quality (think Midwest up until recently). Prices would be deflated because there isn't a strong reason to buy in one area versus another. Maybe the more convenient locations sell at a premium but nothing crazy like we see now. Now imagine the demographics shift and now half the schools have minority populations and their ratings on greatschools.org are subpar. You have effectively cut the supply of houses that white people are willing to buy without any reduction in demand.
The introduction of multiculturalism creates a bidding war among parents who are sensitive to school quality. Typical school conscious parents will pay up to the maximum allowed by their bank for a property (~32%-38% of their income). This creates de-facto segregation, but since you can't hang up a "whites only" sign, mortgage walls go up to keep the undesirables out. It's not that the parents want to put themselves in a high debt situation, it's just that the only choice is to take on a lot of debt or let their kids suffer in bad schools.
If multiculturalism is the gun powder for run away housing prices, the "spark" is the low interest rates. When people can borrow at 3.5% interest rates the buying power of a family with two people earning 120k combined is over $800,000 (est). At more historical interest rates of 6.5% their buying power falls to $580,000 (est).
So the government needs to keep pumping cheap money into our economy to maintain housing values. The moment interest rates go up the buying power of all the people in the market will decline. From the 1980's to the mid 2000's interest rates went from 18% to 3.5%. Without this, housing prices could never have gone so crazy.
Do you see the trap the public has been put in? If we make housing more affordable then millions of people lose their entire net worth, houses go into foreclosure, liquidity dries up. If we let housing prices become more expensive then the future generations need to accept lower quality of living.
Only a few outs for the government mathematically at this point:
1) Let interest rates go up. Boomers and Gen X'ers lose their retirements.
2) Keep everything the same. No appreciation and the housing market is ripe for a collapse if any event interferes with nationwide liquidity.
3) Reintroduce 40 and 50 year mortgages. Keep lowering interest rates. At 2.5% interest rates on a 50 year mortgage the 120k family can now bid prices of the same houses up to $1,010,000.
Now the problem is averted for 10-15 years and the next generation has to deal with the eventual housing crash. Low interest rates mean retiring seniors need to keep throwing their savings into the stock market which most of DC and Wall Street wants to see happening.
4) Income rises for Americans. Super unlikely with the amount of cheap labor that has flooded the market.
Not trying to be a doomsayer, just that housing unaffordability isn't due to the Chinese as is commonly stated. The same situation is playing out in Sweden where housing prices in safe areas exploded after they accepted millions of Muslim migrants. Safe areas now sell at a high premium and same as here, families are getting into massive debt to protect their kids.
[deleted] 7y ago
Another reason to reconsider kids.... such a shame.
allnamesfckintaken 7y ago
based on what you're saying, only asians and whites have housing price problems. instead, fact is, nobody wants to live with undesirables, even the undesirables themselves. they all want to get out and that's why all those places cost so much. basically anyone who has enough self control to reach a level where they can make enough to afford to leave bad areas is a good person. doesnt matter what race they are. that's why everyone who can, will want to live at a place away from people with no self control. is it really a problem of multiculturalism? you think in the south, white people aren't poor and live in fucked up neighborhoods?
perdill 7y ago
Chinese investors were responsible for 11 Billion of the 63 Billion in real estate sales in Ontario last year - more than enough to inflate sales price, especially when they have no problem paying much higher than list.
lacker101 7y ago
Bigger problem is rural areas of industry have been demolished. You play a massive risk trying to settle down in the country. Praying industry doesn't cut and run over the border and leave your small town unemployable.
So everyone tries to buy homes in the major metros. Of which there is only so many 1 hour away suburbs to buy into.
jackandjill22 7y ago
They're never raising interest-rates; especially not after the BREXIT. With the uncertainty in the markets, in fact institutions are probably using as an excuse to maintain their low state.
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
I agree that the government is going to do everything in its power to keep interest rates low. The fed especially is going to flood the market with cheap money as long as they possibly can.
But the problem is that the pain always occurs when interest rates go up. So if rates are reduced to 2.0% or 2.5% to encourage housing appreciation, the prices will normalize with income in a 10-15 year period. Then what can be done to increase housing prices?
Go to 1% interest rates? Make 50 year and interest only mortgages the norm?
At some point the wheels fall off the wagon. The bond market and secondary market begin to demand a greater return on their money. At that point the interest rates have to increase unless the fed wants to risk losing trust in the currency. When that happens it won't be pretty for a lot of people.
ryno55 7y ago
How do high interest rates move money into the stock market? You would see the opposite, money moving out of the stock market and back into bonds and savings to get the high yields. The government should not be price fixing money in the first place.
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
You read it backwards, I stated that a decrease in interest rates would force more personal savings to be invested into securities.
Mrb84 7y ago
If multiculturalism is the issue, how do you explain that the same phenomenon is going on almost everywhere, multicultural or not? Sydney or Melbourne or Vancouver don't have immigrant population or minorities anywhere near the US level, completely different education systems, and still price are skyrocketing.
I think it's really much simpler: the GFC created a deflationary period, every central bank in the world is trying to stimulate the economy by cutting interest rates and-- jackpot. Money has never been this cheap.
But the GFC was provoked by banks lending money to unfit people, so now they only lend to people who already have money (in some countries is basically the law now - if you're too big to fail, your borrowers have to match certain criteria).
Put it all together and: it's a great market for investment properties (China has a lot of rich people with a strong incentive to get their capital out of their borders, so they're first in line) - which drives up prices - which makes it even better for investment - and so on - cutting out middle and working class families.
Multiculturalism and school district might be a factor in some places but it doesn't explain why this is happening everywhere.
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
For the record, you're listing 3 cities where property values are notorious for being inflated by foreign investors, I could add London and NYC to that list as well. I would also point out that the housing prices are not following a similar pattern world wide. Russia, Ireland, Italy, France, and more than a few other countries have seen their nation wide housing prices fall.
There is no disagreement though that loose monetary policy fuels general price inflation. But let's focus on one country at a time here, for my sanity at least.
Analysis at a regional level is going to show extremely uneven inflation based on the demographics of the area. Professionals with children are in a bidding war across the country for the best school districts, and what makes a good school district in those parents eyes is to have a mainly asian/white makeup. Market data in the DC Metro area and Baltimore Metro area demonstrates this conclusively. I can practically plot school district maps by the comparable sales data.
Without these bidding wars for schools I find it highly unlikely that an educated professional would willingly spend 33% of their income on a house in the same way I wouldn't expect most rational educated people to buy a car far above their financial comfort level.
Mrb84 7y ago
I agree completely: school districts are a big factor in house price inflation in urban America. I'd like to see proper data about how that has anything to do with multiculturalism (correlation is not causation) but that's for another day.
But I'm also saying that that fits in a bigger context: there's a general, global phenomenon of house prices moving away from the financial reality of millenials: the phenomenon of 30somethings staying at home with their parents is spreading in the whole Western world. Even in places like Italy where the GFC has decimated realestate values, the youth unemployment rate and the insanely low wages for entry level jobs still puts buying a house out of reach for most.
And that is the result not of multiculturalism (which might have large, complicated social repercussions, but has mostly advantageous economic repercussions), but of 1) the disappearance of low skill manufacturing jobs that made the baby boomers middle class (due to globalisation) - combined with 2) historically low interest rates (due to the aftermath of the GFC and a sluggish recovery that has kept the interest rates low for 8 years and counting), that make it a golden time (if you already have wealth) to invest in realestate.
It's a weird combo that squeezes out millenials.
Truth is, we (the western economies) don't know what the fuck to do with the millions of bodies that don't outskill a Chinese or Bangladeshi factory worker while costing 5x as much. And on the long run, automation will chew away even more of those jobs. These people don't have enough economic value for a bank to bet a mortgage on them. Low skill, low added-value jobs are just not worth paying for at a Western wage level. They can't buy a house because they don't have enough economic surplus to contribute.
I'm not saying it's fair, or just, or good (there's a case to be made on both side of th argument): I'm just saying that's the reality.
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
I'm thinking of paraphrasing Yogi Berra, "no one buys houses anymore, they're too expensive".
Reality is that there is a butt for every seat, if housing were so unobtainable prices would be in a free fall. Yes more people than ever are living with their parents in adulthood but a great majority of 20 and 30 year olds are capable of purchasing a home. With interest rates so low it only takes a 40k a year job to get a 200k house, that's not lavish but if a person can't afford that then I don't know what to tell them.
edit: The magic number you are going to look for is 33%-38%. Under our current economy that is the greatest percentage of a personals income that they can apply towards a mortgage before they become a high risk for default. Unless we see a systemic change somewhere, that's most likely going to be the equilibrium housing obligation for the upcoming generation.
When you say correlation != causation I assume you're getting ready to hand wave away any data I were to give you, while that may not be fair I'll tread carefully here and avoid writing an in depth report. You can go to Zillow and cross reference with greatschools.org if you really need to start seeing patterns in a specific area. If you are genuinely interested, I can get some sample numbers if I have time tomorrow. Gotta know we are discussing this stuff in good faith, if you've put data together before you would know it's not exactly a 5-10 minute operation even if you do analysis for a living.
I'm using "multiculturalism" because it's the more PC term and that's a mistake, I'll be more blunt. White and Asian parents are running away from any school that gets an increase in blacks, hispanics, or Arab students.
Those respective races are perceived by parents to be more prone to violence, disruptive in classes, and they score lower on standardized tests. The question isn't whether that is a good thing or how can we save the children, the question is whether the introduction of these select groups causes parents to move to move expensive areas. That is undeniable. If I were to put my tin foil hat on, I'd say that's a reason why big banks donate to open border candidates.
Outside of showing a raw increase in GDP, you'll have difficulty defending that statement in any objective manner. But feel free to correct me if you can.
Mrb84 7y ago
I am genuinely interested in the data, and I'm not even disputing the "minorities-move-in/middle-class-people-get-out" effect. And, although a bit wide, I'm even going to concede that those middle class perceptions are not generically racists, but often founded in data.
What I would suggest is you look at these movements not through a cultural or ethnic lense, but through a economic one. Id est, if you look at the current situation and you plot for historical data, you'll find that has not much to do with specific cultures, but with income brackets.
Substitute blacks/Hispanics/Arabs (might be true today) for "poor people" and all of a sudden it works over centuries, and over different countries. In the US, that might have been Irish, Italians, Jews, Asians, Norwegians (hard to believe, but that was a thing, "fucking Norwegians coming to take our American jobs"). Poor people are, data shows, lower educated, more prone to crime, have lower life expectancy, and a bunch of other stuff that would disrupt a classroom made of middle/upper class students. Since capitalism was invented the debates rages on on how to deal with it, but those facts remain.
Use the economic lense, rather then the cultural/ethnic one, and it works in other countries too: the South to North migration in early/mid 20th Century Italy, North to South in France, East to West in 1990's Germany, rural to urban China, etc... Same culture (relatively speaking) different income levels, same dynamic.
Why in your country (I'm assuming you're American) blacks, Hispanics and Arabs are more likely to be poor then white and Asian people it's a very complicated and very simple subject. But I think that's what you're actually seeing: poor people, not ethnic groups.
And it's partially proven by the fact that, as integration in the economic system happens, those groups became middle class, and Italian-Amerian, Irish-Americans & the likes are the one that used to move richer people away, and are now the one moving away. Also, thought experiment: take 100 poor, White American students and put them in a upper-middle class school, and you're going to see the same effect.
Final thing about multiculturalism as economically beneficial: in Europe, immigrants pay more in taxes then they receive in welfare benefits. That's a net increase in wealth for the whole Union. There would be less money for services without them. I know it doesn't square with perception (and perception is important) but those are the numbers.
And that's without even going into what kind of economic apocalypse it would be to suck out of the system millions of consumers or who would found social security and the likes in the near future if it was left to white people and their abysmal fertility rate.
[deleted] 7y ago
Now now, Gen X has been getting rightly fucked over a barrel by the 'Boomers too, son. You guys got it worse, but there was no cheap college, 4x median income housing, union jobs out of high school for us either.
Ever notice how all the songs on the radio at Christmas are from the '40s and '50s? We're all getting to relive the 'Boomer's nostalgic childhood every year. It's their world - we just live in it.
i2amahandmodel 7y ago
I'm Gen X. I feel bad for Millenials. What's worse? Seeing the decline happen for the last 40 years or never having a chance even before you were born?
SmokeyMcBlunt 7y ago
to be fair the new christmas songs are just shit.
MuleJuiceMcQuaid 7y ago
The last memorable Christmas song was from WHAM!.
Docbear64 7y ago
"Last Christmas
I gave you my heart
But the very next day ,you gave it away
This year
To save me from tears
I'll give it to someone special
Definitely one of my favorite christmas songs to blast .
NormanoSilurian 7y ago
Correct. Gen X has been fucked by the Boomer scum too.
Baby-boomer's selfishness, irresponsibility, lack of patriotism, and pathological narcissism is truly impressive - Dr Spock has a lot to answer for.
disposable_me_0001 7y ago
the worst part is that boomers are more or less ignorant of the situation. They think today's kids are lazy. They should just go out and get any job. They think min wage can support a family of 4 still.
99639 7y ago
A boomer told me he worked in the summer at minimum wage and earned enough to pay for med school tuition and all costs for his whole year of school. I looked up what tuition was back then. $600 per year. Now its $48,000. Wages only went up slightly since then. Boomers don't realize how drastically they fucked us.
dblink 7y ago
Same story with my dad. He worked a job over the summer, paid for a year of school and enough to buy and keep a horse in a stable. Nowadays you can't even afford the horse on minimum wage!
[deleted] 7y ago
Get to know a lot of the boomers and their friends. Its amazing how many of them were completely uneducated and yet got well paying jobs when they were 19-20. Hell I am amazed by my dad's friends who are in their mid 50s and despite the internet being a thing for 20 years have never learned how to use a computer. Hence why I said earlier that a ton of these guys could not afford to buy the homes they have now with the jobs they have now. The ones who ended up getting fucked were people who waited to buy a house or lost it in a divorce in the late 90s.
There is no way a student today could work in the summer and make $48,000 to pay their tuition.
Goomich 7y ago
And for that 48k you can learn how white priviledge is working for you and then get accused for rape.
makeyourpoint 7y ago
why is lacking patriotism bad? and how can it impact the problem at hand?
im not american. i dont get a lot of what you guys relate to
[deleted] 7y ago
If you lack patriotism, you tend to care less about what happens to the place and people that live around you. This is affected on a macro level because if a generation of people has a "Fuck you, got mine" mentality to governance, then the generations that come after them get to deal with however that manifested in policy. In our case - destruction of unions, outsourcing of jobs, endlessly increasing tuition, and an incarceration rate that makes places in Africa look more free.
xx69bootyhunter69xx 7y ago
not to mention the refugees. The Muslims are flooding the world with their offspring and the boomer phase among them never ended, and doesn't seem like it will end ever. There are speculations that the whole world might become Muslim at one point.
Once I had heard from various sources on the internet how there is a chance of me, being 22, and a member of Gen X, living up to over 100 years or longer, or even becoming immortal (call it a hopeless fantasy, but I really used to fantasize living through this century at one point) , but the more I hear about how the future is fucked, the more I don't want to live that long any more.
RedDeadCred 7y ago
Societal cohesion is the bed rock of powerful nations with happy people. Forces have been at work over the last century to erode those values wherever they exist and replace them with cancers like atheism, hedonism, selfishness, consumerism, isolation, all of which allow the state to step in and replace the community. This is a means to an end, which is one world government and population control.
southernmost 7y ago
But the main thing is this: there have never been enough of us Gen X to do anything significant politically because there are just SO GODDAMN MANY boomers and they are neither retiring nor dying as fast as they need to.
[deleted] 7y ago
They're all on all sorts of medications or undergoing surgery that prevent them from just dying naturally from their poor health conditions. IDK, sounds kind of cruel putting it that way, but it's the truth.
surfbrobijan 7y ago
Even if they die, I think that the house(s) will pass to their own kids, who likely will rent the properties as it becomes more and more difficult to find affordable housing. The number of millennials wanting a house will not be able to afford it with the shoulder of debt from college, and the sheer number of kids baby boomers had will not be able to purchase.
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
Reverse mortgages are going to leave many kids with very little inheritance when mom and dad pass.
MeatRocket23 7y ago
Good you shouldn't bank on your parents dying
[deleted] 7y ago
You shouldn't but a lot of boomers inherited homes that their parents bought at even drastically cheaper prices. My dad's exgirlfriend inherited her grandmother's house that she bought in 1970s and due to some manipulation of the law pays a property tax rate based on a 1971 price evaluation. She is paying like $800 per year property tax on a home that if sold new would probably fetch $430k and thus be a $4300 per year property tax.
huoyuanjiaa 7y ago
And all other music is likely music they hate?
Seems like a less than ideal world for them.
cynicalsimon 7y ago
what type of delusional, warped perception did you get that from?
Ya, they manufactured a pretty shitty world
no generation deserves to be 'rightly fucked over'
hmmm blatant lies
Where do you get these 'facts'?
[deleted] 7y ago
Top hit from 1 minute google search in my area.. ~125k inflation adjusted in 1970 for a home where median income is 46k. Interest rates were higher, but a 20% down payment was actually feasible for a young worker.
It's not lies, bro. The boomers got some sweet deals from their parents, and kicked the ladder out from beneath themselves.
cynicalsimon 7y ago
oh, google search in your specific area, how cute.
that's anecdotal fun
[deleted] 7y ago
Aw, come on now. Anecdotes are "My friend said he sold his house for $125k". These are statistical facts about a major metropolitan county. It's valid, accurate and representative of the larger trend of the past 40 years.
cynicalsimon 7y ago
In ONE isolated instance
Yea, you have to be right? lmfao
[deleted] 7y ago
I'm an "X'er" and I haven't fucked you out of anything. Stop complaining, take responsibility for yourself, and do something about it. Work. I did. I do.
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Heathcliff-- 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.1645
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[deleted] 7y ago
Exactly. House/condo prices are getting too high, and the wages are getting lower, therefore, homeownership amongst youth will decrease. The question of course is, who is buying all the houses then?
LasherDeviance 7y ago
Nobody. I live in TX and I can point out about twenty new development neighborhoods with houses starting in the 350's that are completely empty and have been for 5+ years. Basically, real estate money pits.
The realtors won't budge on the prices though, that's the funny part.
Way_Of_Man 7y ago
Jobs are available a-plenty. Problem is the wages for some of them aren't where they need to be. And I'm not talking about the McDonald's 15/hr type situation. I've seen jobs advertise for less pay than that, but ask for a Bachelor's Degree or experience in one of the trades.
Wage wise, I've worked mainly in either admin or tech support on the lower end. I make a dollar fifty an hour more than I did 12 years ago. Gas is double. Housing prices have tripled since then. Education has gone up thousands of percentile since the 70s.
This is why I spend all of my free time on building my online businesses and learning marketing, coding etc. I feel like the direction of the US is heading to a place where if you're not Killin it, then you're probably poor.
[deleted] 7y ago
The young men of the 60s-80s didn't really have to hustle. They just had to show up. This idea of having their own business was absurd for the most part. Basically all they had to do was show up and doing that would net them enough of an income to punch forward.
dabrah1 7y ago
Yep. Thats why i'm saving every penny I make and buying investment properties, so when shit hits the fan I won't be thrown on to the streets
clearsmoke 7y ago
Im going down a similar path. Thanks for your comment.
jackandjill22 7y ago
That's right, "junk-jobs" & "high-flyers". That's the name of the game.
[deleted] 7y ago
Same - I feel like social and content marketing are actually a great place for entrepreneurship right now
cynicalsimon 7y ago
that's on the higher end of the wage. here in Canada, were still at 11.25/hr in Ontario and that's shit. what's worse is 11.25/hr, is not as low as it gets and 11.25/hr is basically slave labor..
missaudreyhorne 7y ago
it's $7.25 here in Kentucky. most jobs that require experience and prefer a degree still just pay about $9 as well as people who just slave away in factories.
jonknownothing 7y ago
you guys haven't been to third world country a lot aye? that $7.25 is for day work not for 1 hour and that is considered really generous
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Harlenrow 7y ago
That's exactly what a lot of experts are saying. The middle class is going to merge into the lower class.
RedDeadCred 7y ago
That's the world of socialism. A percent of wealthy people and an entirety of poor people.
Philhelm 7y ago
If they push too far, hopefully it might be a percent of dead people and an entirety of poor people.
StoicCrane 7y ago
When the gap between the rich and poor become too steep revolutions happen.
[deleted] 7y ago
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RedDeadCred 7y ago
So your solution to the problem of too much government is to have way more government?
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[deleted] 7y ago
where I live, entry level work pays around 15-18 an hour with a degree in the bio field. Some even pay lower. Almost all have an introductory period where you get no benefits and can be fired at will within a 3 month time span. The situation is really bad right now imo.
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
Are you in DC/NYC/Bay area/Seattle/other major market? If not, wages are going to be very low for those types of fields. But in the major areas I'm seeing 100k-130k incomes for young people regularly.
The non-business owning young people who are doing very well right now are in those major markets and generally in either IT, Engineering, or Medicine. The young people who are doing "pretty well" are the skilled tradesmen or working in government.
The young people that try to attach themselves to a company that doesn't meet those criteria are not doing well. They are earning 30-40k a year and sharing a flat with friends.
[deleted] 7y ago
no im not, but those wages arent enough for the costs just the same. You can kind of survive with lower rent, but with student loan debt among other things, you're most definitely not coming out ahead and saving a great deal. I mean it's all proportional
FunAndFreedom 7y ago
If you're not in a major market or a specialized field it's going to be very hard to get ahead.
For example, when I look at the salaries for mortgage bankers within the same company (top 10 bank worldwide), the mortgage bankers in the major markets are earning between 15-25 thousand per month. The bankers in the non-major markets are earning under 6 thousand per month.
Same skill level, all intelligent people, but the guys who associate with the right markets are making a killing. Same pattern happens across most other professions
max_peenor 7y ago
Come now, this is TRP. Let's stay on point here--it's entirely the fault of women.
Yeah, let that shake around in the cage for a second there.
But seriously, it's true. Allow me to illuminate, as my father did for me on this very topic. A couple decades ago I got my first e-staff spot, though this was back before the wild run-away MBA fueled idiot-tier salaries we hand out now. Nevertheless, in cash alone I took in about three times what my father did, who owned his own business (and a pretty substantial medium sized business, not some VHS rental place or something). My father owned his own home outright. He had several cars. He had a retirement war chest. He had pieced together a textbook 50’s beta-male WIN lifestyle.
I, on the other hand, could never get ahead. Not when I was making $20k a year. Not when I was making when he said that to me. It seemed like no matter what I did, I never could make enough money. My father was pretty quick to point out the cause, “you [kids] buy mountains of shit you don’t need.” Yup. Mountains of shit we don’t need. How many fucking sets of cookware do you need? Enough that at least one of them you’ll never see used. At Disneyland? Buy the kids those $15 Mickey Mouse heads that come with popcorn in it, just so you can throw away the beheaded mouse skull into the garbage when you get home, because you don’t know where to put it.
It wasn’t until I started hiding my income increases did the need to increase spending slowed down. And I’m lucky. My wife grew up dirt poor. She had relatively low expectations from the start. Women will expand their needs to fit the available resources and then push beyond. That last part is the important part. If uncontrolled, women will STRAIN your ability to provide resources—there is never equilibrium. My father was a classic blue-beta masculine male; he had boundaries and enforced them. My mother obeyed those boundaries. Me? Yeah, I was like the rest of the Gen-X mooks. If we didn’t provide the shrill harpy her desires, we were marked losers and expected to take shit from our wives and her peers for it.
Then I woke up. “Sorry, no bonus this quarter, dear. Tough financial environment.” And see, even that is a sad state of affairs. I started my RP journey by hiding and slinking in the shadows, instead of asserting my prerogatives. But we do what we can do when we can do them, right?
You may not feel like you have a lot, but compare your lifestyle to the typical middle class family in the 1950s. Start with the fact they had no idea what a fucking cell phone does nor why you need to spend three days in the hospital getting tests by unrecognizable machines when your little darling falls off a bike and hits his head. Our materialism is a fucking abomination. Our expectations have gone off the charts and men are doing nothing to constrain them. We are throwing money at our problem. We are throwing DEBT at our problems. We are accumulating piles of foreign made shit. This is not how it was five decades ago; in fact, we were on the other side of that equation.
You can complain about income inequality all you want, but the vast majority of wealth held by the 2% and up is funny unicorn paper. They don’t consume but a tiny, itty, teeny fraction of resources and economic activity, unlike the rest of the people do. If they were to even try, say by handing out piles of funny money so average people can consume more, inflation would explode. You have to understand this fundamental truth—paper money and economic activity are only locked as far as economic activity can support the paper. Just wishing you can hand out paper money and everyone can be prosperous is delusional and stupid.
So, yes. We would all love to be able to throw money at our problems (aka women) and live a happy carefree life. That’s just not how it works. Instead, as hard men, you should focus on what you need while striving to raise yourself. Don’t waste. Don’t chase fancy things. Live good. Spend money for things that meet your goals (yes, sometimes it will be frivolous). You’ll get where you want to be.
Ok, so I suppose it is really our fault. We are men. We let this happen. This takes me to the sad ending of my story. After my father retired, he basically let my mother take over their life planning. It took five years to tear through savings accounts and equity in their nice home. My father spent his final years in a smaller house with a wife that constantly bitched she couldn’t go to Europe twice a year any more—despite having NEVER been there until a decade before. He lost control and she ran off a cliff. It always ends the same way.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
Can't believe I had to scroll down this far for this comment.
yomo86 7y ago
"Shit you do not need" the way to go. A house clocked at 250k. Do I really need it? No, just wait till the next crash is around the corner. Buy shit once in your life. I am an avid cook so I used to have a lot of high end teflon and ceramic frying pans ending up spending more than $150 on pans a year but now I exclusivly use the hand made iron pans which last forever.
Same goes for cars the $ 1000 used Toyota from an old person will take me everywhere and is still running without a problem at 200k miles. People forgot the basics of economics.
I am a lawyer. My former firms never wanted to pay more than 150k (5 yrs exp. in a strange field of law) because, you know, business is tough son; as soon as I let it slip that one of my collegues and I are willing to leave and hang our own shingle on the door their tune changed suddenly.
Long story short: the economy is fucked but the guys and girls out there are pampered, entitled, whiney I-want-to-have-it-all-plus-social-security humans and now they have access to easy credit.
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
It might go back to how things used to be. Parents living with parents.
[deleted] 7y ago
Good luck finding a girl that wants to live with husband's parents indefinitely.
garlicextract 7y ago
Yeah seriously. Not like that happened for 5000 years of human history or anything.
Vasallo7G 7y ago
There would be plenty, once the Fed can not longer hold their shit.
whatsazipper 7y ago
It'll happen, but there's definitely going to be hostility between the different 'castes' forming amid this economic stratification.
TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
ALLAHHUuuuuAkbaarr..errererer... I mean, I meant, you do realize there are a LOT of conservative pockets of people where the culture did exactly this?
Indeed this was probably the standard the world over and we couldn't see it happening too far away from this model.
[deleted] 7y ago
I mean, if that becomes the reality, things will change in a cultural sense. It worked before, it can work again etc
TheRedThrowAwayPill 7y ago
I'm still working.
Ask the ones who practice it.
aanarchist 7y ago
no to mention 12 hour work days 6 days a week isn't exactly something someone can consider as more successful than chilling in the basement. why the fuck would anyone willingly be a wage slave when they can just play world of warcraft and watch porn.
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egoisenemy 7y ago
Because money and all the things money can offer as opposed to buying into perpetual virgin neckbearding
OmniscientOCE 7y ago
It's weird that youre getting downvoted. It's not like most people decided "I want to work super hard for not much money", they decided "If I want money I have to work super hard, I dont have much of a choice nor can I control the economy"
aanarchist 7y ago
hey just cuz you're a beta that can't get a lady to play with his balls unless you have provider potential doesn't mean it's that way for everyone.
DannyDemotta 7y ago
So you're going to be a crybaby about it then? Cool.
Money affords you much more than the ability to be a provider. It allows you to buy higher quality food, live in a better part of town, live closer to your job....so many things.
Me thinks you are projecting. Not OPs fault. Stop being a shitty worker, and go get paid.
dr_warlock 7y ago
We shall see if his ego is his enemy.
Rufferto_n_Groo 7y ago
We took the opposite approach. I bought an old farm, built on it, then had both sets of parents move on and they built on it, sharing capital costs and improvement.
When they pass on, the transfer is relatively easy due to the legal structures we used, and the houses will still be rentals.
My children can choose to rent and receive the business assets over time, but in the old school sense, not this split everything up attitude of fairness that Americans have.
So, rather than be hopeless, do some financial engineering and go multigenerational.
That's tough to do in the "me me me" world of boomers these days, but it's better than nothing.
Bearhardy 7y ago
I don't even think my parents would like that, but I think more than that it's the way we have been raise, success is been defined as independance and having it better that your parents.
starkhalo 7y ago
what a horrible definition for success
drumstyx 7y ago
Even those of us with decent jobs are getting hit too, it's not even a matter of lack of money on the 'normal' scale of income, property prices are so high that even high income folks are having a hard time getting on that ladder.
HEADPOCKET 7y ago
Not to mention that rent is so damn high it retards saving.
The baby boomers have done everything in their power through government to prevent asset prices from going down.. pumping up bubbles everywhere that are good for them and their retirement portfolios but terrible for young people who have been priced out of homes, stocks, etc.
PJKenobi 7y ago
Once Boomers learned they could vote themselves money they kept doing it evey 2 years. Thats why old people vote in droves. The gravy train became rocket powered and by the time their kids figured it out that train was already in orbit. There are two simplified solutions. Keep the train in orbit and out of reach of everyone but the ones already on it or make it crash land back to earth with the boomers losing an assload of wealth in the process. The boomers are doing everything in their power to keep that gravy train up there long enough for the party to continue until they die.
RPthrowaway123 7y ago
Agreed...I'm working on my master's, and I literally can't afford anything. I'm a GA, working 60+ hours a week and school on top of that, and my stipend is so small that I couldn't even afford rent. They pay us next to nothing because they can.
johnnygeeksheek 7y ago
Income inequality is only a thing because of financial illiteracy.
[deleted] 7y ago
This is defeatist bullshit. Anyone can be rich and successful in America if they try hard enough.
xx69bootyhunter69xx 7y ago
just curious, is it possible to be living inside a car treating it as your mobile home?
I don't live in the US, but I'm asking about how it would be in the US
allnamesfckintaken 7y ago
it's not baby boomers. it's low interest rates. 90% of homeworkers are on borrowed money and that allows them to contend for high prices. if suddenly no one could borrow money to buy, then based on what we know about americans' savings, who would be able to buy houses? the price would plummet to hell.
themanbat 7y ago
Government regulation and immigration prevents the building of new homes to match demand. Simply put, our population is growing and our housing isn't keeping up with it.
CreamiestCream 7y ago
Beta male blaming his unwillingness to exploit the economic system on previous generations. Man up and get ya money.
[deleted] 7y ago
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-ikkyu- 7y ago
I live in the suburbs of Detroit and while you can find a three bedroom house in the ghetto for $500 a month, finding even a shitty one bedroom apartment in a neighborhood where you won't have to come home to find your shit stolen will cost you more than $900.
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
True
I used to live in Iowa and I had a 1000 square foot apartment that was brand new and I paid $600 a month for it
Now I live in Seattle and have a 400 square foot apartment that I pay $1450 a month for plus $190 for a parking spot.
Once my contract is up here in Seattle I am moving back to a place where it doesn't cost so damn much to rent.
[deleted] 7y ago
It all revolves around jobs. The fucked up thing is like 80% of the people heading in to the city could do the same work from home, but the industrial-age need for managers to see the back of someone's head for 40 hours a week that drives the daily migration.
B_Campbell 7y ago
Gotta put in that face time. =) Funny thing is I've found when you're really valuable to a company they let you work from home more. It's only when things are tight that you have to worry about that stuff.
Legendary_Hypocrite 7y ago
I hate this line of thought. I love and am from DC where a one bedroom condo will cost you 350,000.
When I brought up that it is bullshit that the city I was born and raised in is now too expensive the first thing Reddit says is to move. Move where? Why the fuck should I move?
And you know why a lot of other cities are cheap, because no jobs and no one wants to live there.
[deleted] 7y ago
I feel like that's an unhelpful train of thought though.
I've been all over the US and very methodically picked where I wanted to live based on quality of living in that place. Got a 5 bedroom house for about 300K and its in an emerging, great area with tons of amenities. These places exist, but yeah you might wind up out of your comfort zone. C'est la vie
PJKenobi 7y ago
Same, Born and rasied in DC. Make pretty good money. Cant afford to live there. So I have to pack and up leave becuase I can't afford these asinine prices? You might as well put up signs that say 'Wealthy People Only'. Rich Boomers and their offspring shouldnt be able to take control of entire cities, kicking everyone else out with prices only they can afford.
Legendary_Hypocrite 7y ago
Absolutely agree. I make good money too and in any other city, obviously with a few exceptions, I could buy a house but not here where I am from. Very irritating.
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Mildsoss 7y ago
Pretty soon Charlotte will be like that.
Flash_Bandicoot 7y ago
You sound like the entitled women we rail against around here.
You don't have to move. One of the best ways to help create wealth is to lower your expenses though. I live in a medium sized Midwest city, make decent money and am socking it away right now.
Sorry if you're butt hurt about being priced out of the market, but that's a reality for many people, and crying like a little girl won't change it. Adapt and overcome.
wile_E_coyote_genius 7y ago
Toronto checking in, just bought a one bedroom for $570K (CAD).
Legendary_Hypocrite 7y ago
It's amazing, isn't it? That should buy you a three bedroom house with a huge backyard.
wile_E_coyote_genius 7y ago
Tell me about it - though in fairness it's a pretty cool place - old converted factory loft - but still...fuck me.
debashis22 7y ago
I'm with you, bruv. Stuck in DC because of the job market, and the houses are so expensive. Had a 7brm house on a golf course in Atlanta at 26, moved here and bought a 2brm townhouse for the same price.
SlinkyOne 7y ago
I'm here in DC too. I live in Sterling.. Townhome. $220,000. two bedroom. I got lucky.
[deleted] 7y ago
Not in that area it doesn't.
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ITworksGuys 7y ago
I don't know man. I was laid off this year and applying to jobs all over the country.
I ended up getting something close to home, but there was lots of stuff out there.
Lots of jobs in Virginia, North/South Carolina, etc..
I guess it depends on what you were looking for.
Seducibledotcom 7y ago
Exactly. Why the fuck should you move when you can kill the gooks and take what's theirs? They're the fuckin invaders.
Edit: I meant deport, same thing.
[deleted] 7y ago
bc u nonselfaware goy, murica has had a 100 +years of invading/occupying/colonizing asiatic nations,(well u guys invaded/occupied/colonized/ fucked up tons of brown,black nations too like Iran/Syria/Iraq/Yemen/tons of Latin murican nations) so u have have no right to complain about being "invaded" lol.
Call it karma, reparations or payback. Like how Germany has to pay billions in reparations in welfare money to israel even tho most Germans alive today never never made soap,lamp shades or shrunken heads out of jewish people.
And don't the Soros/Adelson/Faceberg liberal elites have an "invade the world, invite the world" policy and are going to open up murica's borders to hundreds of thousands of muslims from da nations u've been bombing for the last 15 years in order to depopulate the ME region to improve the national security for a certain ally over there lol?
CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 7y ago
Self driving cars will allow us to commute from further out (you can have a 3 hour commute and sleep / work during it)
Virtual office environments have exploded in the last 4 years. And VR just got real in the last 6 months. It might soon be that you can live much much further out from the city and have the same job. This will lower property prices everywhere.
[deleted] 7y ago
I think it's too early to tell what the regulations will be like with self driving cars. For instance, how do you know you wont be legally required to be awake and alert, in case something goes wrong and you have to assume manual control? The tech is in its infancy and thus far there has been very little discussion about how we'd go about it. Don't jump the gun just yet, that's all im sayin
justwasted 7y ago
You're not wrong, but fuck employers who look down on people working remotely. People can be connected all the time via cell phones and remote desktop easily.
At some workplaces, being 'in the office' makes you less accessible and productive, just because you're liable to be off shooting the shit with a coworker or scrounging leftovers from the kitchen downstairs, etc. Encountered this hundreds of times, but remote workers not being accessible only a handful.
[deleted] 7y ago
True. If a remote worker isn't answering the phone, they're likely taking a shit. Trying to track down an antsy cubicle worker between 11 and 2 can be like hunting for a metric bolt in an Alabama junk heap
[deleted] 7y ago
Exactly. Just move, they say. How? I was born here. My aging parents refuse to move. My friends are still loosely around here. My business connections are here. Starting over is for people who fucked something up, or need to escape. All I did was be born in the wrong place. Sigh. I will have to move, though.
Lord_NShYH 7y ago
Is your success more important to you than the feelings of people that share your genes? We have cell phones, email, social media, and video chat.
Go live in a thriving market and be the best version of yourself that you can be.
Or fucking perish.
I don't really give a shit either way.
[deleted] 7y ago
No, you're right, I did years away and kind of got suckered into returning. My parents don't do anything other than a landline and won't visit. At this point though I'm read to say, 'your loss.'
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TheD_ 7y ago
I live near Stockton, Ca. In literally the arm pit of Cali, the house across the street from my parents is listed for 360k. I don't know any 25-35 year old couples making around 175-185k to afford that property without being house poor.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Stockton is terrible. That's unbelievable pricing.
[deleted] 7y ago
Is this just like a regional saying? I've known a half-dozen people who live in Stockton and they all say the same thing verbatim
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Kalikoenig 7y ago
Bakersfield wants to have a conversation regarding who owns that nick name.
flat6turbo 7y ago
fresno is gunning for a podium spot also.
nowellmaybe 7y ago
Bakersfield is more like the taint, given its proximity to the shit spewing asshole that is LA.
nubfilter 7y ago
you can easily afford a $400k house on about $100k/yr income if you don't live too extravagantly.
TheD_ 7y ago
Huh? Generally you can't afford an asset worth more than double your income. Going 400k with 100k salary is a great way to be house poor.
maxbrooksmacbook 7y ago
It depends on the repayment plan. A thirty year mortgage is a long time with a lot of small payments.
NotSorryIfIOffendYou 7y ago
This is just entirely incorrect.
You might not be able to drive a Benz after, but if it's a necessity of your location you can very comfortably afford a 400k home on 100k/yr.
nubfilter 7y ago
Exactly. It depends on your other expenses. If you make $9k/month with a $2.5k mortgage (including taxes and insurance) you still have $3k to live. That's a LOT of money if you allocate it properly.
TheD_ 7y ago
How do you afford 400k mortgage that's AAA rated on 100k/year? 200k down?
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TheD_ 7y ago
That's an example of being house poor brah. ~75k after taxes. ~45% of your income is going to the mortgage. There also isn't a lot of first-time home buyers under 30 with 50k saved unless it comes from parents.
nubfilter 7y ago
25% taxes after your mortgage deduction get a new tax man. I pay less than 20% in cali.
nubfilter 7y ago
20k of 80k is about 25% not 45%
hva_vet 7y ago
VA loans, for one, if you can get one, but there's other ways to finance. No CC debt (that's a big one). A big mortgage carries with it bigger tax deductions so you have to account for that. Don't claim 0 on your W-4 if you have a family of four. It can be done easily with a little planning.
TheD_ 7y ago
And what percentage of home buyers are vets?
Gawernator 7y ago
Not sure but usage of VA loans has increased. I can't wait to use mine
skoobled 7y ago
I did it for a year whilst doing my masters a while ago and left immediately (actually a month or so before handing in my thesis). That was practical
PantsonFire1234 7y ago
If you're a girl on the back of your heels. All you need to do is fuck some rich guy. Get in with him and leach off his finances. Then build up your own and eventually move out in your own apartment.
It's a totally different experience than living in horrible if not suppressing living conditions, trying to make it out. I live in a capital city, finding a house by itself is a huge challenge. The only people I know that live on their own either do so in cheap student apartments or through rich family investments.
Point is, unless your rich and/or a girl. You are probably in for a bad time until you either make it, join the army, become a criminal or move to Colombia.
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godsnotdeadhesalive 7y ago
Its all about the quality pussy
vicious_armbar 7y ago
deleted ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0085 ^^^What ^^^is ^^^this?
eccentricrealist 7y ago
In Mexico it's pretty common to move out until you get married unless either you don't plan to or want to bang lots of girls. It's nothing out of the ordinary, and really lots of people around here think it's weird that some hurry up to move to their own place so much, what with the cost and all.
growing_alpha 7y ago
This is me right now.
I'm 20 and living with mom, with no job. No money in my savings. And damn near every day I dream my Lamborghini. I checked our No More Mr. Nice Guy from the library today. I am changing shit around.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I live with my parents because I enjoy saving an extra $2K/mo and they keep my dog company. I have a 6 figure income and I am doing pretty well.
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[deleted] 7y ago
I'm seeing a larger trend where I live, of people buying multi-generational houses so the grandkids don't have to be brought up in an apartment or condo.
e298f622X2 7y ago
Smart people, mostly immigrants, do this. Because of that its the future. The middle class is dying, people buy property now to be passed down generations with generations living in them.
LasherDeviance 7y ago
Isn't that the way that it's always been?
[deleted] 7y ago
I actually just moved back home with my parents in a city with a big technology sector. I just graduated with a CS degree. The job prospects are good, the rent is cheap, the city is beautiful. Don't see any reason why I shouldn't have done this, other than society's vestigial expectations from an era of cheap real estate.
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Genetically_Awesome 7y ago
90% of men don't fucking word hard AND smart either. So fuck em
Golden_Dawn 7y ago
This explains so much about the desperate need for grammar nazis.
victor_knight 7y ago
I'm glad I'm divorced and the wife is saddled with the kids. No way they are staying with me until 35. After all the brainwashing, they probably wouldn't want to either.
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Golden_Dawn 7y ago
Being a clan member can be a valid way of life in some societies, but us Americans typically value our independence. Once we're no longer dependent on our parents, we move out and begin functioning as an adult member of society. That's the theory, anyway. There has always been that percentage who lack the ability to make it on their own, and it seems like those numbers have risen dramatically. I would expect a large number of these failures-to-thrive to continue demonstrating dependence (parents, government, etc.) for much of their lives.
AnAbsoluteSith 7y ago
I'm beginning to think it's a cultural thing. I can never comment in threads like this because my experience and that of others where I live is the opposite. A lot of young adults here live with their parents well into their late twenties/early thirties. We're definitely a more family-oriented society (or at least relatively speaking). A shitty economy and overpriced housing is definitely a contributing factor though. If it isn't too intrusive to ask, where are situated country-wise? My theory is that those who live in more "traditional" societies aren't in as big a rush to leave home. That has been my experience here in the Caribbean.
arrozxpollo 7y ago
Especially the retarded thing about going into debt to avoid parents lol
Mithra9009 7y ago
First, you have to understand that a lot of America's culture is completely fabricated by corporations. Men express their devotion to their woman through diamond rings because of the advertisements of companies like De Beers. Women smoke because of cigarette companies associating smoking with independence.
In America, moving out of the home has become a Male Rite of Passage. It is the initiation of Manhood/Adulthood and it's also the point where you take on loans and debts in order to sustain yourself.
ShatteredGold 7y ago
I have the same question, dont get it why American's are so obssesed with the idea of moving out as soon as possible.
Layback 7y ago
if you had religious parents living in the suburbs you would want to move out ASAP too.
[deleted] 7y ago
You hit the nail on the head! Many n american parents never want to treat their little boy or little girl like a man or woman. There are definitely families like yours around here but there are also many where the children just get treated like children.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Dude how many people you know actually change their behavior? I suspect maybe 15-20% of thenpopulation is even capable of deep introspection and modified behavior.
TheBloodEagleX 7y ago
Depends on what group of TRP's are reading. I agree with you but for some folks in TRP, they just care about fucking chicks and living with your parents is a negative regarding being alpha that girls don't usually like.
I only had one parent and I would feel like a major cunt if I ditched them, not because of social pressure but my own internal compass.
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TheBloodEagleX 7y ago
I wish it was like that here too. In asian countries they have rooms just for watching movies with friends too. But I think people would just trash them and make them disgusting here in the states.
[deleted] 7y ago
Both of my parents are abusive alcoholics with personality disorders. I wish them the best, but I want absolutely nothing to do with them. Moving out was imperative to my personal mental health. My mother also stole from me when I lived with her. My father will throw punches when he doesn't get his way.
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PanzerBatallion 7y ago
The older I get, the more people I meet with stories similar to mine. It very much is normal to have physical/emotionally abusive parents, and to want nothing to do with them. It most certainly does not make them ungrateful fucks.
PanzerBatallion 7y ago
Cool, you have parents that aren't total shitheads. I've heard people like you exist.
Unfortunately, that's not the case for everyone. My dad kicked me out at 17 because I didn't want to get my hair cut. He kicked my sister out at twenty fucking two because she called them to tell them where she was spending the night (ie: the responsible thing) and they didn't like the answer.
There's no shame in refusing to associate with shitheads.
[deleted] 7y ago
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PanzerBatallion 7y ago
Well, maybe dont mmake blanket statements calling people ungrateful fucks when you clearly have no idea what life is like without good parents.
Maybe get some perspective. I mean that without sarcasm.
IIIbrohonestlyIII 7y ago
In the US, the mentality is that you're basically worthless if you don't own a piece of land. It's kind of an old way of thinking, but that's the ingrained 'american dream'. Owning your own land is essentially the american idea of freedom. I feel like it's even more obvious in the west US. My parents are from the east coast, and it's super common over there for people to live with their folks and not have it be weird. In the west, if you live with your parents in your mid twenties, people assume you're a loser working retail.
I mean, I don't know a single person with a good job who still lives with their parents. Most of my friends who still live at home are either in college or working a job that pays shit.
I'm not saying I agree with it, I like my parents just fine, and would be happy living there. The thing is, if you can get yourself into a nice house, it's way more financially beneficial to you than stockpiling money in the bank living with your folks.
TheBloodEagleX 7y ago
"Buy land", "own" a home, feel all that freedom and then have a homeowners association tell you what to do with it; it's great.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Dude, here's your problem:
-Fortunately personally my industries large selective & exclusive(not that an alternative to IT) however that's a proxy for one of the largest white-collar industries in America.
the places in the United States where there's a better job-market are rife with the highest inequalities & property values. It makes it unbelievably difficult to escape 'Middle-America' unless you already have leverage, resources, opportunities &/or high up social connections
IIIbrohonestlyIII 7y ago
I actually happen to be a Software Developer living in Utah. Idk what you mean about IT professionals being from 3-5 states or universities, but I'd agree that Silicon Valley itself would be an impossible place to live unless you made 100k+.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Listen dude. I can link you articles/documentaries discussing how the number of graduates taken from into a certain industry(the majority) are from probably- about 6 schools. Cal tech, Stanford etc...& also startups that are successful are essentially born from only a few states; coincidentally states that are probably apart of those same identical university circuits.
Yes, housing prices are so high that students first graduating from those areas leave to get started somewhere else before deciding whether or not they want to return to SV. Sometimes they go to Seattle/Portland or something.
IIIbrohonestlyIII 7y ago
I just don't know why you keep talking about startups, my original comment had nothing to do with the IT industry lol. I was just saying that it's more financially beneficial to own a house than to live with your parents.
jackandjill22 7y ago
It's simple: Someone said it in another part of the thread, you have to go to where the jobs are but the majority of the areas where there's work have an incredibly high standard of living.
jackandjill22 7y ago
You're missing my point did you read my original comment?
trpthroway123 7y ago
These guys are often the most attractive, contrary to your assumption.
Tons of free time to work out, pursue hobbies, perfect their game, chase women.
Can stay out late any night they want. Can go to the beach in the middle of the day if they want. Lost a job? So what? Not losing your place, not going hungry, just gotta listen to mom yell a few times a day until you find a new grill to stand over and flip burgers.
Access to all the luxuries Mom and Dad can afford, and simply present it as their own (hot tub, pool, vacation house, etc).
Can spend 100% of their income on DHV-cars, clothes, jewelry, boats, toys, etc. Often have no savings, as they know the parents will bail them out if they are in trouble (wreck their car, catch a DUI, etc).
When you make $1,000/week but have $3,500/month in bills, and need a buffer of savings, you have a lot less to spend than the guy who makes $300/week, lives for free, and needs no savings buffer.
Can't tell you how many basement dwellers I know with boats, motorcycles, and nice cars, who spend all day, every day, chasing women.
Most of them end up with a clingy low-smv girl that gets knocked up or otherwise wrangles them into marrying young.
NotSorryIfIOffendYou 7y ago
I'd be more than willing to let my son crash at my place after college as long as he was both working in some capacity and also trying actively to find a real job, but dear god if he had the money to afford a boat I'd punt his ass out the door in a nanosecond.
Sadpanda596 7y ago
Haha, all the dudes I know in this category average about 30 hours of video games a day and haven't seen a gym since pe class in high school.
trpthroway123 7y ago
I know quite a few of them. Heck, some of them are pushing 30 year old virgin status and have blatantly said they've given up and accepted they'll never get laid.
For every one of them, there's 2 or 3 that just never grew up, never decided to take on responsibility, and use living at home as an enabler to live a party boy lifestyle.
They rub their new toys and cars in my face, crack jokes about "you say you make all this money but drive an Acura".
I don't bother explaining how my property tax alone is twice the payment for their Corvette (which is in their Mom's name, as is the insurance...)
Invalidity 7y ago
A lot of guys in your position will see how much better they fare than their counterparts from high school who never amounted to much. But likewise, they will all fall into the trap that is marriage and they will be forced to pay dearly for it.
I hope for your sake that you aren't entangled in that mess. Because while that 30 year old virgin may be living a shit life, he doesn't have to walk around in a metaphorical leash and cuffs for the rest of his life.
trpthroway123 7y ago
Don't worry about me.
Self made, self supporting, very comfortable.
Don't plan on kids, don't plan on marrying, just spinning plates and enjoying life to the fullest. Not settling down unless a unicorn sits on my face and deepthroats me.
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massivewang 7y ago
I've got a good friend who's an unskilled laborer. The most he's ever made is 40k in year working as a retail manager. He spends every fucking dollar he earns, has an endless amount of clothing, he drinks excessively, and has a life/emotional crisis every six months. There is nothing stable about him or his life.
And he absolutely slays pussy. Women can't get enough of him. He is literally the most fun person I know. He lives in the moment, knows all of the most interesting/fun spots in town. He's got game, and he's witty/socially aware/intelligent.
Women know what they're getting into when they date him, and they do it anyway. Yet there's nothing about his life style that even hints that he has anything to offer besides fun in the moment.
Lsegundo 7y ago
Are you suggesting women fuck guys that give them tingles???
massivewang 7y ago
Just adding an anecdote to the conversation up top about the play boys living at home still slaying chicks.
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trpthroway123 7y ago
Didn't notice that caveat in your post.
Doesn't matter if they're a failure later in life, my point is, they are out pumping babies into 20-something women while those of us who are "successful" are too busy working, improving, and gaming to be passing on our genes or getting roped into marriage.
The failures living with their parents are the ones passing on their genes.
Tons of studies support this, it's not just my perception. It's been this way FOREVER.
1945 Social Security office report, check the page 5 chart. Clearly, the less you make, the more kids you have.
2010 report Clearly, it still stands.
2013 report, nothing changed.
When do they get knocked up? Overwhelmingly, age 20-29.
Wanna guess what kind of people have low income and are knocking up 20-something year old girls left and right? The ones still living with mommy and daddy...
TyrannyVengeance 7y ago
That's why F Scott Fitzgerald wrote. "One things sure and nothings surer, the rich get richer and the poor get.... children."
wolololololololo 7y ago
I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to live that life...
trpthroway123 7y ago
Shit no, and it's not the life I'm living.
A lot of my highschool friends, guys that were alpha teenagers, just never changed while the world around them moved on. Many of them have gone incel around 30. Girls their age won't waste their time with a loser, their game doesn't work anymore. Younger girls think they're creepy. They eventually settle for a former GF, generally one that was knocked up by another loser, or an older woman.
My 31 year old ex-roomate was recently dating an older woman. Her granddaughter is a bartender at the local dive bar, that's how they met. No fucking joke. My college room mate just MARRIED a woman 9 years older than him, with 3 kids (ages 9-17) from 2 men.
Not the life I want.
Sementeries 7y ago
That last paragraph. Fuhuuuuuck
BioshockBrah 7y ago
https://brobible.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/7xbhk.gif
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Sementeries 7y ago
That's almost like in the movie Idiocracy. You got this Gronk like football player who knocks up all these girls, and then you got these two baby faced couples who are very intelligent that wait till it's too late and end up dying kid less.
LasherDeviance 7y ago
It's usually the woman that wants to wait too long.
I have a friend in this very situation.
Marcus1138 7y ago
Now days it seems all women are having kids at 35-40, and then wondering why they have down syndrome or other issues. It's pretty disgusting how irresponsible it is.
LasherDeviance 7y ago
It's not only irresponsible, its selfish.
She stuck it out five years, and when he finally married her ass, only because he was ready to have kids, she's all like, "I've gotten used to not having kids."
He's like, "What the fuck did I marry you for?"
He just got his first taste of the pill.
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razormachine 7y ago
Well I'm thinking about all single moms that got pumped, and none of them got pumped by wealthy man.
From the genetic point of view only the man that pass on their genes can be considered successful. However that success cannot only be measured by number of children. The fitness is also important, because if those children do not spread their own genes, they simply do not count.
The thing is that children raised in "single mom" family are not as fit. Modern society is going to take care that they do not die out of hunger, but still, females have daddy issues, boys grow into beta-bucks. They do not have the money for education... and while their daddy had parents who could afford to have their 30yo son stay with them, they will not have that privilege.
The children produced in that way have seriously damaged fitness.
The strategy does work if the mommy manages to find herself a provider though.
trpthroway123 7y ago
Your thinking is flawed.
These guys will never be beta bucks, they won't make money, they won't know how.
Income is lower than ever for the next generation, guess what that means? More children, earlier. I'm not saying they're Chad, I'm saying they can get themselves laid with a 3/10 and pump out a half dozen welfare check recipients before the higher income kids get their college degree.
The reason we have such big income disparity in our country is because low-income people have so many fucking kids, all of whom are low-income as well. There's 5-10 low income children born for every 1 high income child (depending on your area).
It's been this way for generations.
razormachine 7y ago
Well I was raised by a single parent, and I have a bunch of friends who were raised by single parents.
I know what you are talking about, I'm calling them over-the-top alpha. Guys with lack of any kind of self restrain. They pump up a bunch of future welfare check recipients, then end up in jail, or getting shot.
But if everyone of them was like that, then every country in western society would be overtaken in a single generation.
Most of the male kids raised by single parents end up as betas (no male rolemodel), and they are fucked up in the head.
And nope. My father didn't just knocked up my mom and left. He died in a war.
SmokeyMcBlunt 7y ago
Don't want to get all personal but erm... what war?
razormachine 7y ago
Yugoslavia breakup war or more specifically Croatia independence war.
I'm guessing you are from the US, I'm from Croatia. That could explain the difference in our thinking. We are experiencing two different situations, comparing apples with oranges.
In my country if a working man dies his family is going to receive a pension. Enough to keep them in lower end of middle class.
However if a unemployed woman gets knocked up by a guy she is going to receive only the basic welfare help. If her man cannot provide alimony for her kid (he doesn't have a job, he is in prison) she has to find a job to support herself and her kid. If she can't do that the child services will take the kid away from her.
If she doesn't have a rich family to support her she is going to be limited to one kid.
Werewolf35b 7y ago
I would think fitness only matters in relation to survival, which only matters to pass on the genes. So, fitness doesn't matter, barring these kids don't die young.
razormachine 7y ago
It is way more complicated than that. Please do not try to teach me about evolution.
Werewolf35b 7y ago
Then please stop trying to teach us about genetics lol.
razormachine 7y ago
If you knew how genetics work I wouldn't have to.
Werewolf35b 7y ago
Well you don't. You could be a starving African covered in flies, and if you hump enough to have 5 kids, compared to say, a middle class german guy who has one, and in the big picture, you win. You passed your genes on. "Fitness" doesn't matter.
razormachine 7y ago
Well I will.
Europe and Africa are two fairly different environments.
I'm simply going to concentrate on the western world.
So, humans are generally K-strategy creatures. We invest a lot of resources in our children compared to other species. And among humans those investments can vary considerably. So human K-strategists make less children and invest more into them, while human r-strategists make less children and invest less into them.
People who do not make even one child are simply out of the game, so the top of K-strategy would be just one child and absolute investment (that German middle class guy you just mentioned), while... for top of the strategy lets simply take a guy who made 8 kids, and had invested absolute minimum into them (it can go lower, but lets just roll with that).
The thing is... r-strategy is the best strategy when there is room for expansion, and society is experiencing growth (western world was in that stage until about a decade ago). During that time society can get saturated with r-strategists. But now the western society had started to decline slowly.
The social system that handed out welfare checks made r-strategy even more viable. But the catch is that said social system can only work while the society is experiencing growth. We can all be witnesses of governments heavily borrowing money to keep that system in one piece, and after borrowing too much money making cuts to provided benefits. The importing of immigrants is simply speeding the things up a bit. Importing the labor, while there are no jobs is not going to kick-start the economy. Those people are going to become just a extra burden on the social system helping to bring the system down.
In the future humans will have to out-compete with each other for resources. I'm not saying that guy who makes just one kid is the winner in that future. But who do you think is going to pass on more genes. The guy who can compete for enough resources to raise 2.5 children and invest enough into them so they can raise 2.5 children in the next generation.
Or the guy who can't feed even one kid?
The same situation is going to happen in Africa too, once they reach the limit of expansion and growth. Compared to Europe, Africa is filled with resources. If properly managed they can probably feed 4-6 bilion of people.
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trpthroway123 7y ago
$7.50/hour, 160 hour/month, $1,200/month.
$12,000 for a used 22ft cabin cruiser, about $180/month for a 60-month loan. Leaves $1,000/month to cover gas, dock slip, $400/month Mustang GT payment, etc.
I'm really not making this up. They're up to their eyeballs in debt, (Often, more than annual salary, thanks to cosigning parents) but can afford to make the payments since they don't have any other expenses. They eat mom's food, use her laundry, internet, heat, electricity, etc.
Hop on social media, who looks cooler? The guy with no debt who works all day and has nothing flashy? Or the guy posting poolside pictures, driving a new Mustang, taking his boat all around the bay in the middle of the day?
askmrcia 7y ago
I've read all your post. And you're bringing up excellent points. I know many men in their twenties in which you described.
Social media has truly created a platform for both men and women to look much better than what they are. I know a girl who's in debt, single mother, but somehow took a trip to dubai?
I know guys who dropped out of college, in debt, selling used cars and bragging (lying) about their salary buying new cars and taking exotic trips.
My best friend dropped out of college and works at a restaurant as a manager saying he makes 60k a year. Mind you this is a fast food chain. Yea a guy who's been a manager for less than a year makes $60k. He gets women though because they are dumb to believe it.
And yes its much harder for me to get laid at 26 living in a shitty house in a bad neighborhood than some guy who lives off his parents and debt.
Its all an illusion. And honestly what you are describing is pretty scary.
[deleted] 7y ago
You just described the great illusion of our generation. People living it up on facebook and instagram but in reality their lives are shit.
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trpthroway123 7y ago
Oh yes. Lived it first hand. Former room mate abused it to the fullest. Looks like the coolest guy in the world on Facebook.
He lands fat single moms like you wouldn't believe. They stick around for a week, tops, before they catch on. Occasionally lands a hottie, but they're out just as fast.
He loves to brag about how he gets tons of girls. We usually counter with "it's not fair to go by weight, you get a ton every 3rd or 4th girl, it takes us like 15 or 20".
therpgrad 7y ago
It can be a fun lifestyle to lead in the short term and a worthwhile experience. After a while, though, it loses its luster.
A few years ago, I voluntarily changed to a lower-paying position that would allow me to telecommute for weeks on end before flying back for important meetings. Without any office distractions, I was able to complete my weekly deliverables within less than a day. I'd spend maybe fifteen to thirty minutes every afternoon checking, reading, and responding to emails, updating documentation, and checking nightly builds. The rest of my time was my own.
Since I wasn't tied to the office, I sold my condo and moved into an empty beach house that my folks owned. My lifestyle changed dramatically. I'd wake up whenever I felt like it. I'd sometimes go out and relax on the beach and just listen to the rhythm of the waves. I'd hop on the weight machine, treadmill and elliptical every day; if there wasn't much going on that day, I'd spend most of it just jogging on the treadmill while watching movies. If it was summer time, I'd go swimming in the pool or ocean for an hour or two in the afternoons. Multiple times per week I'd host cookouts in the evenings. These would usually lead to everyone getting hammered, partying, screwing around on jet skis, and all sorts of raunchy fun.
Living like this was initially very satisfying. It led to a huge boost in my sexual market value. It also stoked my ego plenty. As the months turned into a year, though, much of the lifestyle felt hollow. In essence, I was becoming someone that other people wanted to be around. I, however, increasingly did not want to be around myself, since I had stopped improving. Aside from working out, I wasn't doing much for myself. Sure, I had an amazing work-life balance; it will probably be the best I'll ever have these next ten to thirty years. I wasn't advancing my career, though, let alone chasing a higher salary or better connections. I also had set aside going back to graduate school. On the social side, partying had become my sole outlet for meeting and interacting with new people. Gone were the days of having intellectually stimulating discussions. They were replaced with monotonous conversations about immaterial topics with bikini-clad girls.
surfbrobijan 7y ago
Jesus you're like a mirror.
CardinalGuitar 7y ago
Who cares? You are completely ignoring the fact one guy is building valuable work experience/personal growth, creating business connections and investing his money in appreciating assets.
While the "social media badass" is spending his entire paycheck on consumables & depreciating assets.
Just give it 5 years and compare where their personal development has led them.
trpthroway123 7y ago
I've had a lot longer than 5 years to see where it goes.
Nothing has changed in their lives, except they keep on accepting fatter and fatter single moms. A few are now marrying the same fat girl they've been dating on and off since high school, as they've accepted they'll never do better.
It's clear what trajectory they're on.
I'm so thankful I never fell into that. My life improves every day.
CardinalGuitar 7y ago
Amen, I misinterpreted your post. I thought you were advocating that flashy social media lifestyle!
trpthroway123 7y ago
Oh no, not at all.
I'm pointing out that they look way cooler than someone like me does, at least on social media.
I find it hilarious that even the most desperate girls run for the hills once they see behind the facade. It's incredible.
j4c0p 7y ago
I would rather pay a monthly rent for room with flatmates to stay psychically sane than staying home with constant bullshitting.
Lot of guys willingly choose not to, due to some shitty inteligent arguments about saving little money.
It is worth to spend $ to live alone.
Quick comparison.
I found new job in another city and immediately moved there.
vs
Friend found job in his hometown , stayed home with parents.
Everytime we meet for a beer , you can see the dead eyes and exhaustion from everyday contact with same people (His parents and younger brother). The depression is real.
[deleted] 7y ago
My parents would do anything for me to move in with them after school, saying I'll save money and stuff. But they give me limited autonomy so why would I?
TRP_Minor 7y ago
Absolutely this. I'm 17 and I already can't wait to ge the hell out because my parents are strict Christians that never let me do anything. I love them, but they're really fucking up my social life and I can't see myself moving in with them when I get home from college, even if the collapse happens at that time.
[deleted] 7y ago
Yeah, parents are becoming more grumpy and annoying as they get older. Also "when I was your age" stories intensify.
Lambkin1 7y ago
To be fair, parents have pretty much been this way from generation to generation.
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[deleted] 7y ago
this is highly dependent on what your parents are like though. Some people have no problems with it. If anything, most of the depression comes from worrying about what others think I find.
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duckisscary 7y ago
How would one go about finding a job in a different city?
[deleted] 7y ago
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.0810
j4c0p 7y ago
valid point. IMO Still after considering all the pros/cons, it is better to go to another place.
Family relationships went straight from shitty and toxic, to bearable and even pleasant.
Guess why?
We appreciate each other company more, because we don't want to spend our time with no quality content :)
RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
Lots of hamstering in this post.
If you want to live at home during college, fine.
If you need to live at home for a few months after graduating to get settled in financially before getting your own place, fine.
But at some point you need to man up and take responsibility for yourself and become dependent on no one but yourself.
I get that times are tough and the housing market is not favorable to younger generations. But there are still plenty of cities/states out there with low cost of living. When I lived in Iowa I paid $600 a month for a 1,000 square foot brand new apartment. I could have afforded that with just a minimum wage job.
"But but but that's Iowa! No one wants to live there! That's why its so cheap! I'd rather live in a fun big city like NYC or LA"
Well then good luck! If you can afford it good for you. Living on your own in a big city is no different from a baseball player. A pro baseball player has to start in the minor leagues, they aren't starting off in the big leagues right away. Where you live is the same way. It's hard to start off living on your own in some big city right off the bat. You have to work your way up(if you want to do that).
Living in a big city is overrated. It's not worth the exponentially higher cost of living. I live in Seattle right now and pay nearly 3x as much as I did in Iowa for an apartment 2.5 times smaller. I'd rather have the extra money any day of the week. Plus in Iowa I didn't have to deal with SJWs everywhere and homeless people everywhere.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Dude, here's your problem:
-Fortunately personally my industries large selective & exclusive(not that an alternative to IT) however that's a proxy for one of the largest white-collar industries in America.
the places in the United States where there's a better job-market are rife with the highest inequalities & property values. It makes it unbelievably difficult to escape 'Middle-America' unless you already have leverage, resources, opportunities &/or high up social connections
Eze-Wong 7y ago
So you're telling 35% of men to go live in Iowa?
I know plenty of guys making 65k plus still living with family because that's the economical thing to do. Not because they depend on their parents.
Why the fuck would anyone choose to rent an apartment and bleed out $1800 a month, when they can choose to stay with their parents, save money for 10 years, and then be able to own a house in those 10 years time?
Whenever I hear the term "man up" it's never to get guys to do something in their best interests or to do something intelligent. It's always to do something really really stupid, or something that ultimately doesn't benefit the guy.
I've lived by myself paying $500 a month rent (on a living room mattress with 3 other people) vs living with my family in my own room. And it's fucking STUPID to live outside of the house for the sake of "being a man". I literally pushed out my student loan debts 4 years longer than it would have taken just living at home.
I could have paid off my student loan debt, started actual savings, and maybe ACTUALLY own a house with that money.
Also, the idea that everyone should just move to bumble fuck town is outside the scope for white collar people. Good white collar jobs are gonna be in big cities. You think people only move to areas because of low rent? They move to big cities because THAT'S WHERE THE JOBS ARE.
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RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
When you become a man you have to put away your childish things. Self reliance is part of being a man.
jackandjill22 7y ago
So, when older generations want to 'tighten their belts'(economically) to give us some leverage to do that, then come give me a call.
Otherwise save the "Man-up" lecturing/preaching because no-ones buying it or giving a Fuck about it.
Nodeal_reddit 7y ago
And your mom would do your laundry.
Where does it end? Following your logic, you could justify living at home forever.
Eze-Wong 7y ago
Yeah staying at home with your mom doing laundry isn't exactly so attractive to women. But neither is being in debt or having no money. It's the now vs the later.
Do you want to spend all of your money on rent and have no future savings and never be able to save for a home?
Or save all your money now, live with mom and be unattractive to women now?
Not everyone's situation is the same, and it's gonna depend on your circumstances as to which choice is better.
NotSorryIfIOffendYou 7y ago
I'm currently thinking about doing my residency in Iowa. It's in a shockingly urban area and it will be a great place for me to go ahead and continue building my net worth, while also living comfortably, while making only 45-50k a year.
Sure it'll suck going from lower NY/Long Island my whole life to a flyover state in many ways, but I feel the sense of exploration will be fun and I imagine my RP is going to be a lot stronger than the average male's there.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Any advice about housing or making your way around NYC for out-of-state types?
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RedditAdminsSuck_88 7y ago
I loved living in Iowa. Sure there isn't as much to do and its geographically boring, but the people are a lot nicer and mind their own business, its quiet, and its cheap. Your dollar goes a lot further. And there was more of a sense of community.
It depends. In Seattle the men are all betas, so its not hard to be in the Top 20%. But in Iowa its a lot more blue collar, so there are more natural alphas.
LLL3peat 7y ago
Being a person of a minority being Iowa sucked unless you were of high social status or played on a sports team. Otherwise it was why are you taking to me or you are a creep. That was my experience anyways...
[deleted] 7y ago
24M at home right now, have $$ to live alone (50k) and planning to do so this year, have previously as well. 50k cash on hand isn't even enough for a down payment where I'm at.
If either of my parents owned and I stood to inherit the house I would probably not leave (would be different if they had 30 years left, they don't). That might have something to do with it.
Higher fem stat is reflective of the easy ability to move in with a boyfriend, often for free to reduced share of rent, but also the higher proclivity of females to cohouse with their gender (roommates), as there is more social responsibility on men to provide a dedicated environment to host.
Vasallo7G 7y ago
this is not a TRP problem, its a Fed / Central Banks problem...
clonegreen 7y ago
I wonder what the rates are of people with roommates. Most guy friends I know don't live solo.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Most millennials don't live solo.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Battle-Scars 7y ago
I'm of the same generation and have lived through the attack of the middle class over the last 40 years. What mellenials don't understand is they can change things. Tuition too high? Look at the UC regents making 350k a year and fire them. The public sector is the new socialist welfare program. Fireman making 200k a year with full retirement that they didn't pay for? Really? The public sector corruption is rampant, they should all be fired and start over. Stop complaining, get into office and change things, give up your Bernie socialist dreams and re-build the middle class.
PanzerBatallion 7y ago
You can't get into a meaningful political office without money.
It's a noble plan, but it's absolutely impossible. Feel free to find anyone in any public office worth a shit who's not already upper middle class.
The problem is that money buys power. Until we have publicly funded elections, it will continue to do so.
MyLittleAtomBomb 7y ago
Yeah well that's what you fucking get when you purposefully neuter an entire fucking generation of men under the guise of progressiveness. Add that to the immense selfishness of the prior generations, mix in a little female sexual liberation and make sure only the top men have any sort of sexual motivation, and bam. 2016.
Make sure your investment portfolio has holdings in virtual reality dating simulators and dildos cause this entire generation of kiddies is fucked beyond all recovery.
LasherDeviance 7y ago
Don't forget about flooding the country with illegal workers, who drive down wages.
Philhelm 7y ago
Also don't forget about the campaign to raise the minimum wage, so that semi-skilled employees end up at the bottom again once the burger flippers make the same income.
Harlenrow 7y ago
Nah, corporate greed drives down wages.
gggreorge 7y ago
Consumer greed drives down prices. So what? People want the best price they can get.
[deleted] 7y ago
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Tman5691 7y ago
Give it 10 years and it'll go from "immigrants stealing our jobs" to "machines/robots stealing our jobs".
Just look at that Adidas automated factory in Germany, they get a gold sticker for not using child labor in the far east, but at the same time they save even more money by having even fewer workers!
That's the job market future. There will be very few basic labor jobs, and the few that are required will be either because machines aren't flexible enough to account for customer needs (think mid-higher end catering etc) or they want a friendly public front(aka eye candy receptionist).
Harlenrow 7y ago
It's difficult to prove how many illegal immigrants are present in the US (for example) and how much they saturate the job market. Just like how one cannot pin a number on how often rape isn't reported.
[deleted] 7y ago
Saturating job markets? They only have two job market, harvesting crops and construction.
What is saturating markets is this bullshit ideology that everyone should go to college. Some people have to flip the burgers. Not everyone should have a degree and it starts with those low expectation degree farms. They pump out people who flood the market and bring down the value of millions of degrees.
LasherDeviance 7y ago
They are also flooding the manual labor/warehouse/forklift markets. In TX, 6 years ago, you could get a forklift job paying about $14-16. For an unskilled single dude in his early twenties, that's decent money in TX.
Now, those same jobs are flooded with Mexican temps and only pay $8-9.
[deleted] 7y ago
How if they're undocumented? That's on the businesses conducting shady practices. Those jobs have fallen because of the shear amount of people in the work force.
[deleted] 7y ago
That's why liberals hate Donald Trump. He knows that this is the reason for actual Americans losing jobs and not being able to afford things. It's just not "politically correct" to say that.
[deleted] 7y ago
Trump has sweat shops in China making his shitty clothing. You're dreaming, Man. Trump doesn't give a shit about this country, the poor, or middle class. He wants to win because he's an egotistical fucktard.
bitregister 7y ago
Looking for this comment. Trump is all about jobs, it trumps everything else. He is exactly right about the rich globalists demolishing the middle class.
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[deleted] 7y ago
Exactly. Unfortunately sheeple are too stupid to realize that Trump is our last hope at making sure we don't completely cuck our country to other countries, like Saudi Arabia, China and North Korea. They just get brainwashed by the media.
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kick_his_ass_sebas 7y ago
I still can't decide if I will vote Stein or Trump. You guys make the best case for Trump I've heard yet.
[deleted] 7y ago
You want to support a person who is part of the problem? He takes advantage of NAFTA and say it's the worst thing ever to happen to trade. He has no integrity. He has no vision. He cannot bring this country back to what it used to be because he's never done anything. Besides ruin his own businesses and swindle many Americans.
[deleted] 7y ago
And please tell me why you think Hillary Clinton will be better. She would be 1000 times worse.
[deleted] 7y ago
I don't. I never said she was and if you look through my history, I have never said I am a Hilary supporter. I just don't think Trump is qualified to do anything. You obviously have a Trump bias judging by your name. So tell me why he is qualified. Does his numerous bankruptcies, failed business ventures, obvious hypocrisies qualify him?
I actually love Trump for the entertainment factor, but the laughs stop if he actually wins.
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MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 7y ago
To help understand this phenomenon, look at this graph of wages versus productivity.
Contributing factors include overseas production recovering after WWII, arab oil embargo, outsourcing US manufacturing jobs, executives paid many multiples of production employees, real estate speculation, stagnant wages. I was born in the late 60s, my parent's generation could buy a house and raise a family on one income. Today, there are millions upon millions of Americans who work full time and take home below poverty level wages.
Laying all of this at the feet of the 35% of men living with their parents is a bit disingenuous, don't you think?
I'm not talking about the ones who DON'T work and mooch off of their parents, I'm talking about men who work full time and can't afford the regional cost of living.
Way_Of_Man 7y ago
You know another interesting correlation with the "split date" on that chart (besides the massive bear market that took place in '73) is that 1973 is when the US Dollar officially became a fiat currency.
MentORPHEUS Endorsed Contributor 7y ago
Thanks, I hadn't made that connection yet.
jackandjill22 7y ago
Doesn't matter American narratives always going to blame the unproductive for their circumstances. Piketty mentions this. Average people aren't intelligent/educated enough to fathom huge institutions & social change outside of their control.
-You're just a stupid, lazy, Fuck even if a elementary school teacher twerks on Vine to get rich & you're a dashing PhD who's field isn't hiring at the moment. The latters successful & you suck. Bottom-line our society measures results. Nothing else.
Refigerator1043 7y ago
If you're not interested in marriage/children why bother moving out of your parents' house? You don't need your own house unless you're starting a family, and there's no reason to make some landlord rich when you can just help your parents out with that money instead.
If I had a family to live with I would definitely move back in with them, and I'm 30. Paying rent sucks and dealing with roommates is a pain in the ass.
LasherDeviance 7y ago
Maybe you move out because your parents, no matter how much they love you, want their lives to themselves again. The way that it was before they had the headache of raising you.
Refigerator1043 7y ago
Seems like most kids in the Anglosphere aren't really raised by their parents anymore. They're raised by social media. I was raised by TV since social media didn't exist yet.
EdgarAllanRoevWade 7y ago
I, for one, take comfort in knowing you limp-dick retards will never procreate.
DoobieEx 7y ago
That's harsh, brother. I mean I'm married and have my own money pit of a house, and everytime I break out the power tools to do work or drop my cash at 84 lumber I wish I lived at home or bought a cheap single wide trailer or something.
EdgarAllanRoevWade 7y ago
Well, the DIY lifestyle is definitely not for everybody.
[deleted] 7y ago
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DoobieEx 7y ago
Imagine maintaining a house that has 60 years of questionable remodels. I can't even do this shit justice. I don't blame the home inspector, I didn't find a lot of these shenanigans until I started tearing stuff out.
[deleted] 7y ago
Are you one of them? Do you have a plan to get out?
Where's the Acta non verba here?
Squeezymypenisy 7y ago
Not always a need to leave immediately. My friend owns three houses he rents out and still lives at home. Makes good money as a programmer as well.
jackandjill22 7y ago
It's not difficult having your own place actually- if you're families rich & owns several properties like mine.
ShatteredGold 7y ago
My parent's buy an small apartment 15 years ago and it had never been use, not once, in this hole time. Im moving there and my parent's are happy coz is close to their town and "finally that flat gonna be useful for somebody"
gomyaku 7y ago
This is the current situation for both myself and my brother. We both have jobs, just finished our bachelors and are working towards masters to be competitive in the fields we enjoy. Though, even with our combined incomes we are having a hard time getting a home in this market. We could do an apartment, but we'd both rather have property to invest in.
[deleted] 7y ago
My uncle lived the life. He's just died no wife no kids. Always did what ever he wanted whenever he wanted because he had money from being a captain for American Airlines.
b1polarbear 7y ago
I don't know how they can stand it. I moved out as soon as I legally could, at 18, and promptly moved 1000 miles away. There is no way I could bear the indignity of living with my parents. My mother once said we could move in with them when we were having some financial difficulties but I told her I'd rather live in a tent in the woods.
The "our generation can't afford a house" thing is bullshit. There are great houses all over the southeast for less than $100k whose payments would be far less than rent. I bought my first house in my early 20s by saving up despite making $5-$7 an hour. It can be done if you're willing to work.
[deleted] 7y ago
You're describing the issue perfectly. People aren't willing to work for the lifestyle they want. They'd rather find shortcuts in life - easiest being the delay of adulthood until they find their nonexistent dream job.
Lsegundo 7y ago
35% of men (that number must be in the millions) living at home. Just because property in bumble fuck can be bought on minimum wage earnings doesn't mean it is the same everywhere.
Some of the 35% are losers and fuckups. Others are not. Things are a lot harder than they used to be. Earlier in life I had my own 2 bedroom place with no room mate. Years later after getting a college degree in a technical field I can't afford my own place anymore. Its gotten that much more expensive where I live.
I keep working on myself so that someday things will be as good as they used to be. I get annoyed by comments that try to dismiss an article about millions of men because their experience as a one man does not fit the narrative.
Lsegundo 7y ago
Replying to my own post. I often fall into the trap of negative thinking. Even if things are hard the solution is to work on being one of the 65% that is doing alright.
Finding the balance between acknowledging that things have been getting worse for decades and working hard while being positive is difficult for me.
Golden_Dawn 7y ago
Well, yeah, but what percentage of 18-34 males are willing to do whatever it takes to make it as an adult? It's an unfortunate development, but the "our generation has an incredibly high failure rate" thing seems to be becoming more and more true with each successive crop. If this were a factory, we'd throw out that shitty equipment with the massive defect rate.
Congratulations on being an exception.
WeedDaddy 7y ago
Desperate people are easy to exploit and deceive. Company owners get more work out of them for less pay.
Golden_Dawn 7y ago
Is that perspective beneficial for you?
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jackandjill22 7y ago
That's Fucking bullshit you raise the bar everytime material conditions of society gets worse. These circumstances of life- no-one even knows if anyone's supposed to be capable of fighting these odds because it's never happened before & no-one had the foresight to plan for it.
Half the Fuckers who 'made it out the other side' were huge benefactors of their circumstances you've idea how hard some of us work.
Golden_Dawn 7y ago
What do you want, sympathy? Simply "working hard" has little intrinsic value. What does have value is being able to shape the world around you to create the desired results, and to position yourself such that luck just happens to keep finding you.
jackandjill22 7y ago
It's not just about "hard-work". It's about your "bootstraps" narrative & no, not interested in sympathy. I want Fuckers punished for their abuse of an already Fucked system. "Shape your world with luck" definitely sounds like 'talent' to me. Opportunism isn't talent bro. I'd wager halve the idiots you consider successful put in different circumstances would be shitting in holes.
(Side-note: referring to mindless drone-work. That's not the problem beating the odds is the problem. "Nepotisms" an ex. of a Fucking problem.)
Golden_Dawn 7y ago
I can easily think of circumstances where it would be 100%.
Define "talent bro". (Actually, don't. I think we speak different languages.)
HisokaMoreau 7y ago
IDC...pops died 6 years ago, still live at home with my mom & bro...I make like 120k (NYC/NJ) so I'm just stacking, no rush from me..I like living with my family (nigerian dude)
[deleted] 7y ago
As a Nigerian family in suspect that when your dad died you kind of inherited the man status of the house. Probably not bad at all.
HisokaMoreau 7y ago
yup basically, my mom makes good bread...she can live dolo...but why? lol I'm cool with the fam, RedPill really saved me around that time, got me focused & hitting the gym..got my career in a better spot & looking to finish my Bachelors then masters next...Its all about outcome independence and enjoying the ride
guisar 7y ago
Meanwhile in Denmark (where my son lived) it's 1.8%. It's societies choice how this is handled. Basically most minorities are shut out of the job market and then education is less and less of a priority for society (while athletics are celebrated). It's choices and alternatives with a lot of young men chosing the wrong ones.
[deleted] 7y ago
I'm one of those men.
I recently landed my first job in my field. The company happens to be less than 5 min away from my parents house. I will have no problem affording moving out, but I will stay home for at least a year so I can get settled in at work (and finish school. Only one semester remaining).
ConcealingFate 7y ago
I live in Montreal suburbs. I've been through my finances over and over again and I can't buy by myself. My parents have been nice enoguh to let me stay at home and rack money to put on house payment but then I'll just burn through my savings unless I literally live with food/mortage unless. Literally 0 extra expenses unless I'd live in like a fucking shed. I make about 45-50K a year before taxes which mean I have about 25K to spend. Most houses, basic stuff is roughly 250K before interests and all that jazz. I just can't buy alone and it's extremely frustrating.
bisjac 7y ago
31yo, single, renting alone in tiny 1br apartment.
am getting a little sick and tired of my living-with-parents-still guy friends who are just rolling in expendable income, even from their menial jobs. part of me hates them for it and is just waiting for reality to catch up to them so i can feel justified for my efforts ; ;
Ladyfeets 7y ago
Young women are probably more likely to take lower-paying jobs that can lead to nice salaries. I make 40k/yr more than my spouse because I took an entry-level job and was promoted quickly. He waited to start his career until he could start his own business. But in most partnerships someone gets to have fun and someone gotta make fat stacks.