I see very few posts and many negative comments on the topic of hookers on this sub so, as a guy with lots of experience in the area, I thought I’d share some insights into why I prefer pros to plates.
To start off with, I’ve never had any problems when it comes to getting laid. I’ve spun as many as 5 plates at once in the past and I’ve never fucked a girl below a 7 unless I’ve been blind drunk. I’ve had women cold approach me and ask if I’d be interested in a threesome and the extent of my “game” is approaching girls who I’ve noticed are checking me out and just asking them if they want to come home with me. I used to model when I was younger and still get approached by people from modelling agencies on the street from time to time; chicks often tell me I have good “bone structure”. I’m not saying this shit to brag – I’m saying it for the guys that usually have the “But I don’t need to pay for sex” attitude. I don’t need to pay for sex either, but I’ve done it at least a couple of hundred times anyway.
So why pay for something you can get for free? It’s for more or less the same reasons we pay for most luxuries in life – quality and convenience. The analogy I often use is that of bottled water – it’s in abundance and we literally have it on tap for free, yet it’s still one of the most popular bottled drinks.
Quality
While it’s true that you may not find many pros who are HB10’s outside of Eastern Europe (or their popular export destinations like London and Dubai), quality is more than just skin deep - the quality of the experience is what counts with sex. As we all know, becoming an expert in anything takes a lot of practice, and sex is no different; no regular girl will provide the same level of quality as an experienced whore as she is comparatively inexperienced and unskilled. I won’t go into detail about why good girls who have only had monogamous LTRs are relatively useless in bed – that should be obvious – but what may be less obvious is why hookers are better in bed than even the most promiscuous CC riding sluts.
For those completely unaware of how the transaction works; the specific services the girl offers are usually advertised (or at least implied in areas where prostitution is not completely legal) and this is then confirmed before any money changes hands. If she does anal, deepthroat, rimming (i.e licking your butthole), massages or lets you cum on her face, you will usually know beforehand and can confirm that she will provide these services if and when you ring to book her. It’s no different to hiring a cleaning service and asking if oven or outdoor cleaning is included (FYI – it’s usually extra)
Like any good businessperson selling a service, they do what they advertise and they want to do it well to get repeat business. Many are also natural people-pleasers and go the extra mile because they genuinely enjoy making their customers happy. The underlying factor is that the benefit the girl receives is money – she is not expecting to have any other needs met and is only there to meet yours. She doesn’t care if you make her cum, she doesn’t care if you eat her out, she doesn’t care if you fuck in her favourite position. She only cares that you pay her (and take care of your hygiene and appearance – even hookers won’t lick your balls if they look like unpeeled Rambutans and smell like ass)
Now compare this to a slut; a girl who does not receive remuneration for services she provides. What’s in it for her? It obviously depends on the individual, but if it’s not money, there will be another selfish reason - unlike a hooker, a slut’s motivation is not to satisfy you, it’s to satisfy herself. She may be horny and want to cum, she may want to lock down a provider, she may want to “experiment”, she may want to feel wanted – no matter what it is, she expects something in return. It’s up to you whether or not you give it to them, but if you don’t, the length of time you can spin a deepthroat-receiving, massage-giving, rimjob-enjoying plate is extremely limited. That’s if you can even find one in the first place - learning to do things like supressing one’s gag reflex to allow proper deepthroat face-fucking takes a hell of a lot of practice.
If you do happen to find one, can you continue to spin them by applying all of the advice in the sidebar and the rest of this sub? You bet your ass you can. But that brings me to my next point:
Convenience
You’ve probably heard the mantra “I don’t pay them for sex, I pay them to leave” and truer words have perhaps never been said, but convenience goes beyond sleeping comfortably after the deed is done. Convenience begins before your cock is even unleashed from your pants. Convenience is managing your time efficiently in order to spend it where it benefits you the most.
Now, perhaps my game isn’t as good as others in this sub, but I find it difficult to organise a plate to come over for ass to mouth with an hour’s notice. On the rare occasion I’ve had plates that actually enjoy everything I want to do, I’ve still had to spend time organising a time to meet up which is convenient for both of us and do it over a series of texts or messages which last for far too long. This is not efficient and does not help me if I feel like fucking her ass right now instead of tomorrow.
As many of you will know, this merely scratches the surface of the time commitment required to spin plates. It may not seem like much at first, but it often adds up and can get to the point where you feel the need to waste time posting on AskTRP for advice on how to waste more time on your plate(s). Time is money, and you can spend money on whores who will fuck you better than a plate.
The Epiphany
As you can probably guess, this is not a recent trend in my life; I’ve been fucking hookers regularly for nearly a decade now. I fucked my first hooker on an overseas trip and was instantly sold. I fucked at least one per day for the remainder of the trip and came back home to a few plates that just did not compare. It was like coming home to a garage of 6 cylinder road cars after racing turbo V10’s around a track for two weeks. I now fuck hookers as often as once or twice per week, but my long term average would not be anywhere near as frequent due to LTRs and periods where my disposable income is low (I should probably also point out that I live in Europe and half an hour with 21yo HB8 can be had for around US$80 if you shop around online).
Prior to that, I was one of the aforementioned “I don’t need to pay for sex” guys. I spent far too much of my free time navigating through a storm of shit tests from plates and far too little time fucking girls when it was actually convenient for me. I’ve put up with clingy bitches who thought we were in a relationship, crazy ones whose behaviour bordered on stalking, and girls who played hard to get so much that I stopped even bothering to contact them. Some could fuck almost as well as a hooker, but all of them wanted something in return. I still fuck regular girls, but I don’t actively seek them out anymore.
Now, I’m not suggesting that everyone should drop all their plates and start fucking pros. As with a lot of posts on this sub, this is just an insight into the knowledge I’ve gained through my own experiences. Where it’s likely to be most applicable for the average RPer is in breaking through plateaus in your abundance mentality – if you know you can have a hot little HB8 tossing your salad within an hour, you’re going to give less of a shit that the HB7 at the bar might reject you.
Obligatory pre-emptive response to STD comments: I’ve had Gonorrhoea twice; once from a FWB and once from a ONS. I’ve never caught anything from a hooker. Condoms work – the only reason I got infected twice is because I didn’t use one. I’ve never fucked a hooker without a condom, hence why I’ve never had any issues from them. It doesn’t matter who you’re fucking – wrap it up and you’ll be fine. You’re more likely to get injured riding a bicycle than catch something from fucking a hooker.

frzndesserts 11y ago
I am one of those guys who never had problems finding it for "free" either. Then the epiphany came when I went pro one night. higher quality and service and never any shit tests, unwanted knocks at the door, or "We just made love, where is this going?" bullshit. My perfect evening is this: 1st 7pm go to a pro 2nd 830pm eat dinner at a restaurant 3rd 9pm go to a rock show 4th 11pm go to bed quietly with having all my needs met and a cheaper evening out. My imperfect "traditional" evening is this: 1st 7pm go to dinner with a date 2nd 9pm go to a rock show with that date 3rd 11pm go back to my date's place and try and get serviced while sitting on cat hair. 12pm go to bed quietly with not having all my needs met and a more expensive night out. so guys, which one is more fulfilling?
feelinglazy 11y ago
The main gripe I have with pros is that they are kinda illegal where I live and because of that, really expensive.
Prostitute is a really expensive habit, so it's not for me, now.
Maybe when I move into the high earner bracket I'll consider it
PaulMurrayCbr 11y ago
With respect to the various comments about desire and oxytocin and whatnot:
First, a hooker is a living human being, not a plastic fuckdoll. Smells like a woman, moves like a woman, 'cause she is a woman. When you have sex with a hooker, here usually is a little man/woman spark there simply because you are having sex with another living human being. The exception is gay girls. Went there a couple of times, and afterwards it's "Well what was all that about, then?" But the very fact that there's something missing when you have sex with a gay hooker is telling.
Second, hookers don't hate the work. Oh - maybe there are exceptions for crack whores, the truly desperate, or the occasional girl trying it out for the first time and discovering that it seriously isn't her bag. But generally, if a girl works for more than a few nights then she's basically down with the work. The secret to making a living on the game is repeat clients, and that doesn't happen if you are just plain bad in bed.
(Pls don't bother mentioning trafficking and sex slavery - it's negligible to the point of doesn't actually happen. Trafficking women for sex makes no commercial sense. It's coals to Newcastle.)
Sure, sex with a prostitute is not earth-shaking emotional fulfilment. It isn't luuuuurve. But how often is sex like that anyway? Most of the time, commercial sex is sex with a woman who is pretty much ok with having sex with you. For a price, of course.
And most of the time it's - well - pretty good.
oldredder 11y ago
100% agree.
Women make the cost of vagina too expensive when it comes to logistics, time use and the bullshit games they play like LMR. There's no LMR or false rape accusations with hookers. No question of consent and almost no question at all what I get for sex.
This truly is an awesome option to have.
speakertable 11y ago
Yeah I definitely don't understand the aversion to hookers. Having sex with non-hookers is fun because the "chase"/hook-up process is fun, but some of the best looking guys I know (who pull a lot on looks alone) have no qualms about using hookers.
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oldredder 11y ago
plates mean constant bullshit not constant sex - every time you get sex you have to re-organize a shit-ton in your life for logistics because you have no idea when they'll decide it's time to come over or pull bullshit games, go fuck other guys they know and flake on you, and you can only do so much with "outcome independence" like be ready to make other plans if she flakes, etc.
With a hooker you get the timing precise. And the cost. And no bullshit games. Those bullshit games, being stood up, lied to, played add up to a dollar cost exceeding 120 bucks.
"Plus, I actually enjoy the company of the girls I'm dating. I like holding hands and kissing and hugging her and all that soft ass stuff."
Good for you. I hate those things. They are a waste of my time and money and I have zero desire to do this. Ever.
MGTOW_player 11y ago
Funny thing is these guys, who probably have never tried prostitutes, always think it is some emotionless robotic encounter. Sure, even in better whore countries there are those who are in it only for the money with a bad attitude. But if you're alpha, you can easily find a professional who is "real" with you. Even in the US the few pros I have hired never watched the clock and were legitimately flirting, having conversation, turned on, etc.
Again, I cannot stress it enough for these less-experienced guys:
All women are whores and all whores are women.
If you're attractive and irresistible for a decent number of hot "girl next door" types who aren't professional, the professionals are likely to show just as much admiration and certainly have more fun than fucking some fatass, old, negative attitude guy.
speakertable 11y ago
Yeah but time investment. Especially if you're both working. So maybe you guys have like a three hour window where both of you are free each week, and then maybe in that window you're really tired from work and you just want to go to sleep.
Like I said, I'm a student so I have a lot of free time, so I don't mind spending time for hookups. But I think my mindset will change very quickly once I begin working.
[deleted] 11y ago
Also, can't she just steal shit and run, are you gonna call the police and explain how she got in?
manwhowouldbeking 11y ago
Never have kids. In fact, Trombley, you should never have gotten married. Women will always cost, but marriage is the most expensive way to go. If you want to pay for it, go to Australia. For a hundred bucks you can order a whore over the phone. Half an hour later she arrives at your door, fresh and hot like a pizza.- Generation kill
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redbelleu 11y ago
Every woman is a kind of hooker-even our wifes...think- you work.. you bring money home-all salary goes to your wife..and have nothing- after few years of marrige even not good sex-if you are a single- you have all money for you-and from time to time can go to hooker- make what you want..and go home...amen.
no_face 11y ago
If that is true, why are Germany and northern Europe bluer than their blue blooded royalty
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Elodrian 11y ago
Isn't prostitution already legal in Nevada? Did any of that happen in Nevada? I read that your system was set up so the states could be "laboratories of democracy". Seems to me like there's a perfectly good test-case being run as we speak.
popthatpill 11y ago
Feminists are getting behind the "Swedish model" of prostitution, where selling sex is legal but buying it is illegal.
thepenismightiersir 11y ago
Wha? No... how? How can one settle this dichotomy in their mind?
darkstout 11y ago
Prostitutes are now seen as victims of sexual exploitation. The dichotomy is simple: women should not be held responsible for their actions while men should due to their patriarchal privilege.
Feminists would love to call prostitution rape, but the exchange of money implies consent, so it's being re-branded as "exploitation." This is cultural Marxism, just like how Marxists believe the capitalist exploits his workers.
easyrandomguy 11y ago
they want to stay sex positive and not slut shame prostitutes, but shame the men who actually give them money because they consider it rape. men = criminals. women = victims. how feminists think 101.
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baconrising 11y ago
Because it protects the prostitutes but allows pimps and clients to get arrested. Since prostitutes don't have to worry about getting busted they can be much more open and safe, they don't have to hide crimes and put themselves in dangerous situations.
nnniiiccckkk1 11y ago
Kinda the same as selling vs buying drugs. Selling is a criminal act, buying is legal/civil act.
xwm 11y ago
I believe it's called doublethink. 1984 was a hell of a good book. Depressing though.
MartialWay 11y ago
Not just good, it was Double Plus Good!
Elodrian 11y ago
For the first 1/3 of it, I actually thought it was a comedy. It... escalated quickly.
oldredder 11y ago
See, now we know it was actually a documentary from the future.
TekkomanKingz 11y ago
In the UK escorts are a no-brainer a they are legal. In the U.S. unfortunately we are a puritanical society so between the bait and switch fakers, pimps that rob johns and pigs that setup stakeouts it's a hostile environment that suppresses the true demand of the market.
I have no idea why the UK is a country with such insane strides towards a feminist republic still is able to maintain prostitution as legal.
Tman5691 11y ago
Just look at our big politicians. They're all from the "old boys club" side of life. They aren't interested in shaking that particular part of the tree.
changshuaidiao 11y ago
The only girls I've ever been with that didn't want me to raw dog them were prostitutes, so that should say something about who's really safer.
BadgerBurger 11y ago
I've never known a girl (non-prostitute) who wasn't okay with raw dick, at least for a little while.
Looking back, I've taken some bad risks.
Mjazz3 11y ago
I live in a place where prostitution is legal and have used them from time to time. On the whole it doesnt change the blue pill mindset of most young men as most dont use them, but instead still go out looking for love etc. I think their main clientele are omegas and married men, which means their main function seems to be to stop the omega guys from going crazy from a lack of sex and keeping marriages together by giving the married men an outlet without having to resort to extra marital affairs. I think the latter affect is actually quite important. It means a married man can fuck a girl with no added complications and head back home to his family afterwards.
Neo-ReactionaryHarry 11y ago
The difference in my mind is the difference between using a taxi and always calling your friend to drive you around town. Think about it. If I have a taxi(prostitution), I call them to pick me up at x-time, they do(if they don't I don't hire them next time), and take me where I need to go. A prostitute is the same process, it takes you from point A to point B.
The other option is that you call up your friend who has a car every time you need a ride(girlfriends, plates, whathaveyou). Sooner or later your friend is going to get sick of driving you around town. They might put up with it for a while but eventually they'll want things like gas money and hate being inconvenienced. This is the equivalent of men buying women gifts as well as being nagged to death.
You might ask why not just get a car? Well a brothel owner is like a taxi service and if you're in the top 2-5% of SMV then that may be an option for you. But for many in the dating game they'd be much better off taking the taxi.
Trail_of_Jeers 11y ago
The cheapest women tend to be the one's you pay for
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hu1MtT_S3bc
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RPenetrate 11y ago
I haven't fucked any hookers in NZ, but I've fucked maybe 30-40 in Oz. The majority won't give head without a condom, the ones that do will usually charge extra.
Some of them pull a bait and switch where they say it's included and then won't suck your dick without a condom unless you give them a $20.
I'm not sure about swallowing as it's not a service I often get. I know that it's quite rare in general and some girls stipulate that it's dependent on the taste of your cum. My only advice is to just ask and then drink a lot of pineapple juice beforehand....
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oldredder 11y ago
item number 3 is a good point: there's still many men here who desire that bond and wish women would have it, despite accepting most women we'll meet can not have it.
I am keenly aware no women I meet will be able to bond with men, much less with me, but because of my prior experiences with women (all negative,despite good sex, I'm talking emotions/relationships) and drugs (heavy: cocaine, methamphetamine, morphine, heroin, all injected), I don't have the ability to bond anymore.
I literally can't give a damn whatsoever. Purest zen of zero-fucks-given. So for me... it's sex or nothing. No point for anything else. That isn't the case for all men.
Above all else I'm looking at the nonsense about what is consent, what is rape, like "regret sex" is rape but it was consenting but now it isn't because "vagina" and "cries". Hookers don't do that and the cost there is... my entire life ruined.
Manuel_S 11y ago
Around here (south europe), in my generation and social class (middle bourgeousie), it was pretty common for a close relative to make sure a growing boy learned what’s what with a pro. Still is, less for city boys (too much fucking liberal crap) but happens enough in the countryside, particularly in old families connected to land.
Crude as it may sound, it breaks through some barriers:
1 – he no longer idolizes what he doesn’t know. He knows his stuff is in working order.
2 – no more virgin mentality. You got dealt with by a woman, makes a difference.
3 – abundance mentality. You know you can get it and how.
4 – you get to see the seedy side of that shit (those ugly-ass bars and stuff) and stop making dramas over it. You also learn a bit of the rules, may keep you from making an ass of yourself in the future. This part definitely made an impression on me.
Note: we are not prudes like you guys over there, but there’s some heavy catholic guilt-tripping going around. Doesn’t stop us really, and those that ARE stopped by that shit, its better that they are.
wiseclockcounter 11y ago
got any elaboration to offer on 4? stories or anything? I'm curious what you mean by the rules. local rules, or universal?
Manuel_S 11y ago
Basically, you get how it works. This is important. You know there's bouncers, and don't play smart or say goodbye to your teeth.
You learn they're all smiling at your money, not you.
You learn about paying girls to chicks - FUCKING DON'T, I mean just the bare minimum to pick yours, discuss terms and GTFO. You learn about having a bottle on tab.
Plus - come on guys, its fucking noxious. The colours, the lights, the fucking paintwork and scaffolding on the women. Fake fake fake - and you're a part of it, and get it.
You also learn about the aftermath - how the logistics work. How there's places that rent rooms by the hour.
I know, I know, pretty fucking obvious - but if you're a young boy of 16-17, it comes as a fucking big shock, let me tell you.
Later on - you don't romanticize that life. Its there, just that.
Limekill 11y ago
On point #2 - If you can make a girl orgasim she usually will be pretty happy and will want sex with you.
And yes #3 is pretty good.
sweetleef 11y ago
If you're a broke loser beta, you can offer her orgasms on demand and get scoffed at. If you're rich/powerful, she'll come begging for you to stain her blue dress and expect nothing in return.
Linrraba 11y ago
As someone that lives outside US i have to ask: considering pornography is legal couldn't one just shoot it and get away with it?
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Robdogx9001 11y ago
Yes, it is suspected that some porn companies are just fronts.
oldredder 11y ago
most "porn companies" are now self-hosted sites run by the woman herself using her web cam.
However many men or women join her is up to her. Or none. Solos are common too.
So by all means if that's the scene yet you're paying her to do the act ON CAMERA now it's porn. Just make sure she's legal age. No joke, check that ID. It's a legal requirement for porn production that someone did.
tits_out_forTheBoys 11y ago
OP does make a great argument and while I've never tried it, I can definitely see myself railing out some prostitutes when I'm wealthy enough to start traveling abroad. Why the fuck not? It's part of the cultural experience.
That said, one thing that would really bother me is your second point: the lack of attraction from a prostitute. Regardless of her SMV, you cannot under any circumstances negotiate desire. Therefore, hookers are rarely ever attracted to their clients because sex is an obligation.
And I think it would really take a lot away from the experience if the woman who you're banging isn't attracted to you. Not because it matters what she thinks or how she feels, but because a man's dominance in bed requires being in power. That is why the woman's attraction is a necessary element.
oldredder 11y ago
Also not true: many hookers returned to my car saying she would have done this or that guy for free, he was so hot. For all I know they did later - it's only my job to take the call and collect the money, not keep them from side-dealing.
vengefully_yours 11y ago
Get on a plane, fly to Frankfurt Germany, hop a train into town, when you get to the main station, go through the center archway, walk under the street, go down two blocks, turn left, go to the second block. Pick a building and start walking the stairs. You want one that is sitting outside her room, standing, and actively engages you. The girls watching TV on her bed will just lay there, don't even bother. They can make it feel like they want you, the good ones will be adept at it. No you don't bond with them, but it's a fun and memorable experience.
It's not like the movies or the street walkers in the states, they are good at what they do. They are tested weekly for infection, any size, shape, or color you want can be had, so go with a friend. The hottest are on the lower floors, usually.
hbPUA 11y ago
Thanks. I've thought about taking a weekend trip for awhile now.
vengefully_yours 11y ago
Do it, have some real beer while you're there.
easyrandomguy 11y ago
they're called "escorts". no one spends that much money for an hour with a bitch just to "hangout".
oldredder 11y ago
as a driver I consistently saw hookers spend 3 hours at $200/hr hang out and there was no sex. They're not shy to tell me about the sex so when they return and say there was no sex, I believe them.
Also one guy was so drunk he passed out after paying for 3 hours. Girl stayed 20 minutes then left with all the money. You pay up front, you fall asleep it's your personal problem. Deal is a deal.
easyrandomguy 11y ago
their loss. sex is usually part of the deal. but then again, there are guys who do use escorts like shrinks. but hey whatever, you pay for their time, right?
oldredder 11y ago
Indeed. I was stunned at first when the first girl came back after 3 hours saying they spent the whole time drinking and talking, and I'm like "200/hr for 3 hours for that?" but yes. Good on her, I guess, 600 for showing up and being nice. I guess that's the monetary value, to some men, for a woman who acts like a decent human being because she's paid to be on her best behaviour.
Given how common pussy is and how rare well-behaved women are... maybe that is the market value! But not for my wallet. That's why I'm the driver, not the customer.
easyrandomguy 11y ago
some guys have more money than common sense
oldredder 11y ago
Yup. Common sense ain't common but if you have enough life experience that can help round things out. Keep those eyes open.
aaron_the_great 11y ago
I love it. A fresh idea backed up with a good argument, bravo OP.
I'm late to the commenting game but it's funny what this is saying about women today: that they've become so low quality and offer so little value to a man that it's more convenient to just pay a nominal fee to have physical needs met.
Not to mention it's astronomically cheaper than Marriage 2.0.
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oldredder 11y ago
nothing's free. None of the sluts I've met put a hooker to shame: she has more experience and intends to keep it top notch to get money, not validation, because she has enough money she doesn't need orbiters and doesn't need to over-dominate men emotionally or abuse them.
A hooker might want 150/hr. A slut will want to control everything about me while I'm with her and won't go away when I want her to go away.
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oldredder 11y ago
Sluts normally are not obedient: they are the ones in control of most men they run into. That's why they're sluts. They want sex on their terms and a lot of men have no frame and are thirsty for sex so they'll give in.
Doesn't work on me but a slut will have power over most men.
Spiral-knight 11y ago
The op's outlook and RP could be looked at as primarily a personal improvement. Even after pilling a man could grow tired of the plate dance, moreso if he truly can afford to just pay
WeCantHaveFun 11y ago
I'm with you. The monkey dance to get laid from a "regular" women is too costly. If I spot an easy kill, I'll take it, but my effort level has dropped to nothing. The only effort I'll put in is to get an LTR with none once I have her. Doesn't take much to get those.
Speaking of STDs, non-intravenous drug using prostitutes are cleaner than non-intravenous drug using non-prostitutes.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
"Women are the worst terrorists, y'all hold the pussy hostage til you get what you want from men, like us listening to your problems and shit." - Patrice O' Neal
"If pussy was a stock, it would be plummeting, because you women have flooded the market with it" - Dave Chapelle
MGTOW_player 11y ago
You're going to catch much flak from egotistical players on this topic. I figure they are either too closed minded (how I used to be) about prostitution or paying for ass just doesn't work for them psychologically for whatever reason.
PAYING THEM TO LEAVE IS AWESOME!!! I seriously got more satisfaction out of pulling hot streetwalkers than I do gaming any "good" whores anywhere else. Although I did develop "tight game" and pulled dozens of hot girls in college, so I had that part down/perfected.
My recent trip to Thailand changed my life. It's a joke going out and wasting time/money with American hoes at the bars and clubs. I recommend every guy take a "sex vacation" as soon as they can. It may radically change how you view sex and women. Pussy is worth almost nothing. That's what I learned. Paying $15-20 for 8s and 9s who treat you better than most "free" hot girls will change your view.
bobbatosakosanose 11y ago
in the free market, prices are tend to reflect real value because people give up their hard earned cash. what you get for free (your time and attention) people dont value, even though it is far more valuable than cash. SO people give it away like they throw away money they inherited. This keeps bubbles from forming. In the blue pill world, attention is given away like there is no tomorrow and men spend hours, months, years trying to get with a girl. This drives up the price of "free pussy",
drallcom3 11y ago
(Europe here) Prostitutes are convenient, awesome and expensive. Too expensive to do it regularly. Now I rather save my money.
cherrypoptart27 11y ago
"If you need it that bad Johnny...rent it"
spoetnick 11y ago
Great read. I don't have an interest in paying for sex but that's probably because it is a social taboo.
I've talked to guys that fuck hookers, but none of them ever made a strong case about why that would be better than a ONS or a plate.
For me, this is an eye opener. I probably won't be running to the red light district any time soon, but you make a strong point.
Thanks for sharing!
[deleted] 11y ago
Sometimes I explain why to people. But it was harder to explain for me, I usually just say it's because it's low effort required on my part.
But kino wise it helped me learn to initiate. If I can pick up a chick and throw her on the bed and fuck her, I can certainly build the nerve to put my arm around a non escort and touch her.
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speakertable 11y ago
It's also taboo because it lets unattractive guys have sex. Ergo, if you fuck hookers, there's the implication that you're fucking hookers because you're not attractive enough to get free sex.
FLFTW16 11y ago
It's not a strong taboo because 1. we're able to discuss it and entertain the idea of doing it and 2. it's institutionally legal in many places. It's a moral and ethical issue, certainly.
A true taboo is something that could never be entertained, has virtually no advocates, and is not legal. Examples might be having sex with toddlers, having sex with your immediate family members, eating other humans, and murdering for fun.
mcgruntman 11y ago
No.. it's taboo because until very recently (condoms preventing STI spread) it meant a fistful of STIs which you would then bring home to share with your wife and whoever else. This plus the fact that it facilitates cheating in a marriage, and society until fairly recently was dominated by religious morals.
'Morals' take a long time to change because they feel like they should be absolute (as indeed some are, like 'do not murder'), so even considering an alternative feels wrong.
[deleted] 11y ago
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mcgruntman 11y ago
Sorry I worded it poorly. I didn't mean to say that the market has changed, I have no idea; I meant that in a time before condoms things were very different.
spoetnick 11y ago
You are right. Every social stigma should be examined. To agree with a taboo for the sake of agreeing is nonsense. But while I am aware that social taboo's aren't necessarily logical, doesn't mean that I've had the time or awareness to examine every one for myself yet.
MGTOW right? Guess paying for sex could be another one of those things.
TheMarsianMan 11y ago
It makes a hell of a lot of sense if you go back to the biological/evolutionary basis of The Red Pill.
If a man has the wealth to hire a prostitute to satisfy those inherent urges and there are prostitutes available who will voluntarily deliver those services in an honest no-nonsense business transaction, why should he ever go to all the trouble of picking up a woman in a bar or plating women? Because feminist/Blue Pill society says he should? Lol. It's a rat race that should have run its course centuries ago. We're no longer cave men bumbling around hitting each other with clubs to get the woman. We have the intelligence and the knowledge and the means to be beyond that. Sex is physiological but the "satisfaction" of being the one to court the girl and then fuck her is completely psychological.
The end result of prostitution is basically the same, except you have cut out all the bullshit in the middle and leveled the playing field. In fact the end result is better because you get exactly what you want at the price you're willing to pay, for less time and effort.
The only reason that mainstream society sees it as taboo is because it removes power from women and levels the playing field. If it were actually legal and socially acceptable, you wouldn't have these repulsive armies of white knights, betas and blue pills defending feminism and subjugating themselves to women.
Shame and taboos are archaic social constructs designed to control and manipulate people. The prostitution taboo is no different.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
Women ARE, the mainstream.
Just like the street ballers, those guys know the tips and tricks to entertain, to ooh and ahh the crowd. They break "rules" and get cheered, and get a fan following.
The contract NBA players are higher paid, but the rules are constricting, the game is more rigid, and it is far less entertaining.
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leredditaccounts 11y ago
Whilst it is convenient, you have to be careful. Let's say you lift and do cardio, but you still have to look out for your sexual health, and just using condoms is not enough.
It would be a great shame to have ONE aspect of your health so hugely compromised that you start to have health problems.
imjgaltstill 11y ago
So why pay for something you can get for free?
Every boy pays for kisses
[deleted] 11y ago
This is what NBA players do, saw it myself in Raleigh. It makes lots of sense for them, too. Why risk false-rape allegations and some whore trying to get a settlement out of you? Fuck that, a prostitute knows what it is, and is happy to get paid and fuck your brains out. Get your nut off with the least risk, I ain't hating on prostitutes, almost bought one last night, and I saved her number.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
This is a major governing factor in the decision making / risk assessment process.
We pay a fee to be with all females, so why not pay to play instead of paying to be miserable?
[deleted] 11y ago
Cosby should have done this.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
.. And the majority of womendo not stand by him now. So sad.
speakertable 11y ago
Heck, Bieber paid for a prostitute. As if he couldn't get sex from hordes of 19 year olds.
[deleted] 11y ago
Yeah not super shocked, I mean he probably has tons of girls who would love to be impregnated by him or claim rape and make millions from him.
[deleted] 11y ago
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oldredder 11y ago
You think commanding money and pussy with status is NOT alpha?
Sure, it would be good for him to lift but some alphas are intellectuals, some are brute strength and some use art/music and that's how he's done it.
He commands more pussy and other men with his money than you ever will. I don't like his looks but I'd be a liar to disrespect what he can do as if it weren't real.
LeGrandDiableBlanc 11y ago
The only problem I have with prostitution is that it does nothing to satisfy my ego.
If I want to cum, I can jack off by myself for less time and money than any prostitute.
What a prostitute can never give me is the sense that she is awe-stricken by me because I am awesome.
oldredder 11y ago
some of us don't need our ego satisfied. It's been a decade or more since my "ego" had any say in my life whatsoever.
"What a prostitute can never give me is the sense that she is awe-stricken by me because I am awesome"
I can't have that feeling at all - that's unhealthy narcissism and will always be bad for me if it happens.
LeGrandDiableBlanc 11y ago
A few points:
Everyone is motivated by their ego. In the Freudian sense, ego just refers to the conscious mind (as opposed to instincts [id] and socialization [superego]). In normal colloquial usage though, it more refers to a sense of self. To do something out of ego is to do something because the self will benefit from it.
So every time you eat to not be hungry, sleep to not feel tired, or do anything to either elicit a good feeling or suppress a bad feeling, you are acting out of ego. Even if you endure some hardship intentionally, you are doing it for some further benefit. Working out can be painful, but the rewards are awesome. No sane person, however, takes a pill that makes all of their muscles ache for no additional benefit.
As for narcissism, there is a fine line between a state of ego which has high self-esteem (which is merely a conscious understanding and appreciation of one’s value) and narcissism (which I would define as a self-esteem inflated to the point of it being harmful). The point is that narcissism is by definition a disorder, so to conflate the term narcissism with ego and valuing one’s self (and even enjoying external validation of that value) wrongly ascribes the disorder status to high self-esteem and its related motivating capabilities.
To that end, in my experience the purely physical gratification of sex is roughly equal to that of masturbation. So barring some sort of other benefit, prostitutes have little value-add to me. If I understand, their value to most is that of some sort of real-life pornography. In my mind that classifies them as a masturbation aid, though, and I can get that for free.
All that said, I am all for their legalization and don’t hate on anyone who visits them (or even them). I only made my top post because I thought about trying prostitutes after reading a bunch of threads recommending it, and had reasons for why I decided against it.
oldredder 11y ago
That's not ego. That's chemical reflex outside the brain. Hunger. Sleep. Etc. It's rooted in biochemistry, some of which is in the brain, some of which isn't.
Study up on your biology and you'll find this is true.
The ego only motivates a weaker, lesser man. I have no ego. No motivation from any such thing. All my needs are mathematical, be it the balances of hormones or nutrients in my blood or the facts around me that compute into various outcomes and I pick one to avoid damage or maximize needs like time & nutrients, etc.
It's all math, no ego. Calculations only.
All sex to me is nothing more than masturbation with a partner. There's no emotional bond for me. That's not the case for you - fine - but it can never be more for me. Women flat out have no emotional value to me. They've chosen to be no good in this area. A generation ago that wouldn't be true and maybe in a generation it will change again but in this generation they have no such emotional value.
To believe in it would simply be personal delusion. I choose no self-delusion.
MGTOW_player 11y ago
If you've got a body like Patrick Bateman they will be awe-stricken by you. They are still women.
aguy01 11y ago
This. You can still give a hooker genuine orgasms.
[deleted] 11y ago
I started with escorts. I was a young 22 year old raking in serious dough. Lost my virginity. Most of the time I had a great time. One particular Asian with a perfect ass had me feeling like I was on cloud 9. I go back to school and I spin plates, and face the shit tests. And sometimes I wonder why I bother.
Hookers have stds, you can get it for free if you follow trp blah blah blah.
I don't plan on stopping I will most likely see another one in a few weeks.
I did get the clap, just once through a bj. That's a risk you take and it's my discretion, I walk if I smell bad breath or a stank box. 90 percent of the time this is a safe hobby if you're smart.
beerthroway 11y ago
In the U.S., soliciting prostitution is not something I want to get caught doing. My career would be over. How do you go about making sure that you aren't being set up by a cop? In other words, how do I go about actually finding them?
oldredder 11y ago
go to another country where it's legal. Canada is right across the border, very safe.
jagrmeister721 11y ago
I've been with hundreds. Not one such problem. Use AMP's (asian massage parlors) or escorts that have reviews in The Erotic Review or similar. Use RubMaps to find good AMPs. There are local escort review sites- SF used to have one, Seattle has one, so does Portland. With a little legwork, you can get legit options.
The opposite of what I've said is to go trolling on some random street for a streetwalker in some unknown part of town. There's a way to do this that minimizes risk.
I did the same thing as the OP. I went from 2 FWB to the escort option. So much more convenient; girls are hotter, way better technique, and if you see them a few times, the girlfriend experience is usually better than the real thing with women today.
Deebo33 11y ago
r/hookers is a good place to start
antariusz 11y ago
Learn from those with more experienced than you, use a forum for like-minded individuals like usasexguide.info
If you're in a extremely sensitive position, it probably just isn't even worth it. But for the vast majority of men, our life would not be over, just extremely inconvenienced, if we got busted.
Bortasz 11y ago
In Poland Prostitution is semi legal (No Brothels, Private in Home yes)
There are side that girls/women advertise. But even better are site of "szwagrów" in-laws I think is translation. Were men who actually go to prostitute share there experience. Tell about how it was organize, how room/apartment look does girl is similar to the photos etcetera.
Plus If I remember correctly there are state that Prostitution is legal.
BlackHeart89 11y ago
This is my concern. I'd be devastated if I ever got caught.
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csehszlovakze 11y ago
As far as I know it's legal in the USA to make amateur porn (someone from there correct me if I'm wrong), so you just take a camera with you and record the whole thing (with her consent of course, might up the price too).
Bortasz 11y ago
I think even Family guy make fun of this:
Found it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3K7doCvpcFU
[deleted] 11y ago
Just bring a camera, set it up on a stand, and don't bother turning it on.
RPenetrate 11y ago
I'd definitely re-think it if private soliciting was illegal here. I have been stopped by the police as I've left a hooker's place before but they were only after information on the girls. I made up a story about meeting them in a bar and just went home.
There's websites here with thousands upon thousands of listings, most with face pics too. I don't have to worry about cops as it's not illegal online.
BlackHeart89 11y ago
Wait. Its not illegal online? Are you from the U.S.?
hekatomba2 11y ago
He is not. Here u have an example how it looks in Poland. http://www.roksa.pl/
vandaalen 11y ago
Those prices! They are about 1/5 of what it will cost in Germany. I think I just found out about my next holiday destination.
BlackHeart89 11y ago
WTFFFFFF
I'm sort of glad I didn't have this option. I would have went broke as hell during my darkest days. Lol
oldredder 11y ago
WTF - if these were your options you wouldn't have HAD dark days.
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Bortasz 11y ago
Roksa is just one site. There are more. But better is finding the site of "szwagrów" in-laws.
Those sites are for men who share there opinion/experience with prostitute.
Example of such site is: www.onlyfun.com.pl
You can post question about concrete advertising, or search if others already give opinion about a girl.
Espada18 11y ago
For someone that's starting up, paying hookers is in the right direction. I believe it puts you into that abundance mentality which kicks girls off the padastle. Having the option to just pay a hooker when girls act high and mighty should be one of the powers at your disposal, as a man. Where I'm from, there are lots of student prostitutes that are 9s if not 10s who just want to pay for university etc.. As OP mentioned in his post, their customer service is pretty impressive. Just make sure to use a condom and not fall in love with a prostitute.
Prattler26 11y ago
And this is exactly why prostitution is banned. Women would go insane if they actually had to compete.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
Women like a challenge, but they don't like competition.
s0und0fyell0w 11y ago
I have been injured riding a bicycle plenty of times.
SQQQ 11y ago
finally.... someone who openely supports my position.
seriously man.... with plates i gotta spend so much time, effort n gotta fear getting sperm jacked all the time. with pros... hell i m outta here.
Pussypluspoprocks 11y ago
AWESOME quote that sums up why I am probably going to spend a great deal of time in Thailand and the Philippines:
"In the States, women hold the balance of power in sexual matters. No one questions that they are used to having a total monopoly. The power lets them set the terms on all the fun stuff: sex, foreplay, afterplay, even the sexual vocabulary that can be used. Like all monopolists, they abuse their power. Tough, strict, exact, no bargaining terms.
Then they come oever here (Thailand) and find the exact opposite. Men hold the power over sex. men set the terms, and the terms are loose, vague and open ended. It blows their minds. bad for them, good for us. As a man, give the choice, where would you choose to live?"
Christopher Moore - "The Big Weird"
[deleted] 11y ago
This post reminds me of something I always wondered about in regards to the character Charlie Harper from Two and Half Men. I always wondered if Charlie was such a player with money and an awesome house, why did he buy hookers?
Because he could and it was fun. It's as simple as that.
someguysomewhere321 11y ago
I have lived in Bangkok, where prostitution is very openly practiced and the average hooker didn't appeal to me at all (mostly bored slobs speaking 10 words of English).
Model types or younger girls that were not hardened pros yet seemed to cost $150+ (incl all fees associated with the transaction), which is not very economic for average joe.
Dressing decently and having some game goes a long way with the local girls, which are much more pleasant to deal with than western girls.
If god gave you shitty genetics or an unchangeable personality that is not suitable to game - by all means go for it, but there are lots of places out there with relatively pleasant women for red pillers.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
"Whores are the most honest women, they present the bill right away."
"The whore and the housewife both are thankful, that at least they aren't each other"
The Art of Seduction
[deleted] 11y ago
I'd rather hunt for a meal than go to a drive-thru.
STDs aside you're risking potential imprisonment, however unlikely. Get caught and you're usually stuck in your home country for 10+ years, possibly life. Good luck flying anywhere without intense scrutiny afterwards.
Rationalize it however you'd like, unless you're banging world-class call girls (and even then...) this is weak.
oldredder 11y ago
in my home country there's no crime - prostitution is legal.
Almost all the hookers I saw were 8-10 in hotness, literally only 3 out of 40 were not. I was the escort driver. I deliver them & collect the cash, not a customer.
Robdogx9001 11y ago
Question op. Do you wear rubbers when getting head?
johnhello 11y ago
these girls are hot and more sexually experienced than a regular chick so yeah I see the appeal. If you can pull of your charisma and charm it feels more of an accomplishment and a better memory.
ihaphleas 11y ago
To each his own, but you've forgotten the thrill of the chase, my friend. ... if it's not thrilling, you need to find bigger game.
oldredder 11y ago
the chase isn't thrilling - it's a pain in the ass that isn't worth it. Never in my life have I ever, or will I ever, think the "thrill of the chase" is real or a good thing.
Ever. It literally is nothing more than a consumption of my time leading to 0 benefit when the chase can be reduced to zero. And the outcome, sex, the same.
Any man chasing the thrill is inexperienced and hasn't figured out what life is about. Mortal life is short, having women waste my time chasing them is a waste of my limited life-span.
MGTOW_player 11y ago
Eventually you get tired of seeing the same girl in all the 8-9s you're fucking. Most guys will never reach that level, however. But I can confirm, as well as friends, that yes the game gets stale even when having much "success".
NeoreactionSafe 11y ago
Makes sense to me.
If you are looking at the total energy required to maintain plates and compare it to paying a professional $80 per session that seems like a great deal.
$80 is maybe an hour or two of your income (depending on how much you make) and so it's not a bad bargain.
I'd probably prefer a good massage actually.
I have had professional massages before and they are fantastic.
Red Pill for me is more about cracking the most challenging issue which is actually "Taming the Shrew" called the modern women and that's a lot harder if you would like a family.
The professional "usually" doesn't create babies.
BUT...
Wouldn't that be awesome?
Professional baby mamma's that get pregnant and give you your offspring for a fee. Aren't they called "surrogate mothers"?
http://www.reproductivepossibilities.com/parents_exp.cfm
...that's another option. (prices on that website seem high)
[deleted] 11y ago
Man I could not wear a condom constantly, it just doesnt compare to the real thing. I get where you're coming from with the convenience aspect. It seems older guys are into that. I'm nowhere as experienced as you. My big thing is (and id wager most guys are the same) conquering the girl, knowing that you got her, that she wanted your dick anove all others. The act of sex itself isn't all that enjoyable in comparison
oldredder 11y ago
the enjoyable act of sex is unloading the load. Conquering means nothing to me. As for condoms I could never trust a plate / FWB with no condoms. Ever. That girl is the most likely girl to have STDs because of the same habit with other men, and the most likely to lie about being on the pill and nail you with the ooops pregnancy.
TylerDurdenRP 11y ago
By using a prostitute you are conquering the entire female demographic. You are taking the only thing they have away. Just think of it as...they are all after money anyways...you just are smart enough to get a deal. I guess it depends on how you look at it, because I know what you mean also.
Mjazz3 11y ago
Someone raised the issue about how some highly feminist societies can tolerate prostitution and coming from a place where it is legal ill try explain what I think. The issue as well as being a male v female is also an intra-female issue. Where it is legal, a lot of politicians would prefer just to ignore it, as its a bit too controversial and most dont really know where they stand because of the complexity of it. Also there are always going to be associations of retired pros who will speak out for the industry publically (and the media are quite happy to give them a stage). Mostly these spokeswomen argue that : the opponents are a bunch of prudes, pros are just girls struggling to make a living and government shouldnt make life more difficult for them and finally that making it illegal wont make it go away it will just mean that organised crime will take it over. In the face of the arguments most feminists are quite.
Finally behind the scenes the law enforcement people say that they really dont want to be enforcing any sort of laws suppressing this sort of thing as it pretty much is a waste of their time.
The whole thing is a giant can of worms that on the whole the politicians would prefer just to ignore. As long as prostitution is low key, and mostly out of sight people dont make a big fuss about it.
QuantumHumanMyAss 11y ago
I don't like this post.
I'm 42, and I have traveled a lot in my lifetime. Most of Europe, latin america, australia, japan, etc.
There was a time when I used those girls a lot.
Not anymore.
I find that it eventually degrades your alpha status.
There is NOTHING alpha about you paying someone to give you 20 minutes of pleasure. Even if the girl is a perfect ten...
You did not dominate her, you did not impress her with your opinions and world views, you didn't really make her laugh, you did not seduce her, you did not convince her to do anything.
If anything, prostitutes represent EXACTLY the kind of woman mentality that I hate: She fakes a smile and pretends to have interest in me, only to use me, get my money and discard me.
No way, bitch.
I have value. I am intelligent. I have strenght & integrity. I have honor. I am a MAN.
You should call yourself lucky when you share my bed.
Sure, I could still call a hooker some night, if I'm bored, or if I'm drunk, but the fun will only last as long as I'm paying for it. When those bitches leave, the only things that remain will be a hangover, a grand less on my bank account and a grin on my face (If I'm lucky).
You can't compare that with the feeling of being a real ALPHA, with a real woman.
You will NEVER spend more than you want to spend.
You will never do anything you don't want to do.
She will beg to suck your dick, she will give you gifts, she will cook you breakfast, and her grand prize will be you, fucking her again and again.
And when it's time for her to leave, instead of leaving you with a cocktail of hangover & regret, you will be left alone, smiling, feeling like a fucking BADASS, basking in the glow of a huge sense of accomplishment. And you deserve it. From as many women as you want.
Sure, you can use prostitutes from time to time, to have fun. But don't even think for a fucking second that it's a good substitute.
Using prostitutes regularly, is just being lazy, sloppy, and calling yourself alpha.
oldredder 11y ago
alpha/beta doesn't even matter anymore.
It shouldn't.
If the goal is sex, get sex. Care nothing for alpha.
If the goal is to dominate socially outside of sex, be alpha there.
MGTOW_player 11y ago
Prostitutes are the most honest women out there.
Believe it or not there are guys who are top 5-10% of men who do love paying for ass upfront regularly.
Once you've gotten over NAWALT you'll understand.
tyofwa 11y ago
early '40s here..
Agree with this in principle, but I agree that breaking a beta pattern of vagina worship is possible through prostitution. Like Aristotle said, "Moderation in everything"
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 11y ago
I'm with Quantumhuman on this one. Not to shame or disrespect those who do choose this option. Personally I don't find it a sufficiently lofty goal to present to younger generations of men as predigested sexual prowess or enlightenment.
Furthermore, like too much porn, it can intrude on your ability to interact naturally with "real life" women. Like seeking bliss through heroin instead of goal achievement, or wealth through embezzlement instead of hard work and a better product/service; it's not even in the same class of satisfaction of primal urges, and can damage your very will to strive naturally for them.
Use with caution; recommended primarily for anger phase and committed MGTOW.
oldredder 11y ago
neither porn nor hookers degrade your ability to deal with real life women. Never has.
It simply means you have more of your time by efficiently converting time to money to sex.
This should never be a "anger phase" thing - many of us have no anger phase (I didn't).
Your analogies are incorrect and apply to no one, or just you. Doesn't apply to me.
trp_s 11y ago
The goal of the post was not to provide guidance on becoming/being alpha. It was a fairly clear cut cost vs. return analysis of pros versus plates. The RP takeaway that /u/RPenetrate points out is that it helps with abundance mentality, which could be useful to some beginners in this sub.
As a person who comes from a country where solicitation can be part of business, I find this statement of yours to be particularly ironic.
Paying for a prostitute is hands down the most honest transaction you will ever have with a woman. Also, it's the other way around. You give her some of your cash, and then you discard her. If you had other expectations, then that's on you.
QuantumHumanMyAss 11y ago
"Paying for a prostitute is the most honest transaction you will ever have with a woman"
Dude... really?
No man... No...
There's sooo much more.... Relationships, when properly managed and controlled, are very rewarding... And I'm not even talking abour LTR's...
Would you think that NOT FLYING is the fault of every single fish you will meet? Or maybe it could be your misplaced expectations?
We have to KNOW women, and recognize their strenghts and faults. We will not place them on a pedestal, and we will not accept any romantic bullshit society has been feeding us for decades... But don't fool yourself, there's lot of value there to be discovered.
Each of us men has a specific challenge, to better yourself, to learn, to grow, to become more stable, mature and stoic in the face of an ever changing world.
Having a proper woman (or women, as you like) by your side in this adventure is fucking awesome. Just keep it under control and under your terms.
oldredder 11y ago
really it is - so much yes - it is not for you but it is correct.
"We have to KNOW women, and recognize their strenghts and faults"
NO, we don't. YOU do if you choose.
I do out of curiosity for their nonsense being so prolific.
I can happily live my life just erasing their nonsense and blockading them from getting close enough to burn me.
That's red pill. It's sexual STRATEGY and part of that STRATEGY is ensuring the cost of sex is not so high (non-monetary terms: risk, time, etc.) that it's dangerous and not worth the taste.
trp_s 11y ago
Relax, this is not the dispute. No one is arguing that prostitutes substitute LTRs or any sort of relationship. The functions are fundamentally different. The rewards sought after are different. I haven't read all the new comments in this thread, but AFAIK no one is conflating prostitutes==emotional fulfillment.
You don't get less romantic than paying for a prostitute. This conflicts with your statement here:
The problem here is that you appear to give a shit about how prosties "use you for cash and discard you". The only reason this would bother you is if you gave a shit. That's pretty much the definition of putting a woman on a pedestal.
The entire point of this thread, and the entire point that /u/RPenetrator is making, is that prostitutes can fulfill a base purpose for an alpha male and that the solicitation of these women is not inherently blue-pill. Prostitutes can serve as a healthy alternative for men just swallowing the red pill and are still in the process of building up their value.
Prostitutes are the most honest transactions because there are no hidden intentions. It is literally tit for tat. I have yet to have an LTR, ONS or platonic relationship with a woman where there wasn't some form of negotiation as a subtext. The concept of game and seduction is navigating this subtext, which can be entertaining in its own way, but you dispense with all of that by paying for a hooker.
[deleted] 11y ago
I hate to break it to you but have you considered that some individuals simply don't find pursuing women worth the effort/time and simply need their sexual needs sated?
Don't give me any of that "real men/alpha's do X" blue pill crap, a man does whatever he wants. Your logic follows the same logic that says "a real man pays for the child even if its not his!" - sure your logic is more redpill but guess what, red pill is breaking social norms. Red pill is saying I don't care what people think a real man is, i'm going to do what I want. Trying to push your definition of "alpha" is endorsing the same social ideology that created the blue pill, only difference is yours is slightly more red pill but the principle of pushing your definition of a "real man" still follows the same ideological fault.
QuantumHumanMyAss 11y ago
Red pill is "breaking social norms" and "being able to do what you want"?
What are you? 19?
Red pill is to recognize and respect the value of being a man. For yourself and by yourself. It's hard work, buddy.
As I said, nothing wrong with using prostitutes once in a while, for fun.
I stand by my statement that it will skew your views and integrity in the long run. (And that's NOT good, for any man, at any age).
I think you are confusing being Red Pill, with being an irresponsible jerk. It's a common mistake.
[deleted] 11y ago
You missed my point entirely. Compare
and
One is what you think a man is and the other is what society says a man is; both force a preconceived notion of what a "man" is.
You think that using prostitutes "You can't compare that with the feeling of being a real ALPHA" degrades the status of a man by YOUR definitions, my point is that not everyone follows your definition of what a man/alpha is (i.e. criminals)
To a larger extent, that is why this sub has soured these last few months. Everyone tries to push their own notion of "alpha" and new individuals ask how they can be more alpha. There is no set definition of alpha outside of doing what you want. In your world an alpha is honest, has integrity etc. thats what you want to do. In my world, an alpha does not inherently possess these qualities because that is not what I want.
You state
Yet try to push your own definition of what a man is, thus negating "for yourself and by yourself".
Tarnsman4Life 11y ago
$80 US for a solid 8? Must be a poorer European country. Here in Chicago a good solid 8 costs around $200 to $300 an hr. 9s and 10s can be had but for about $3000 for a longer GFE date, ontop of that many won't see "new" clients until you build a reputation with typically lower quality girls to prove your not law enforcement. I've used such services three times in 4 years, the third time didn't feel right so I just walked off. They didn't stop me, because I was smart about it and turns out it was indeed a sting. A healthy life is a mix of both whores for money and just plain ole whores(plates). Paying for it reminds you its just pussy, nothing special, nothing to put on a pedestal. It can be good to.just get what you need and relax. Spinning plates maintains game which is useful outside of relations with women, it reaffirms confidence and if done right its cheaper than a good hooker in money. To each their own, to someone like me an hr is worth right around $300 . To others that hour might be worth $30 or $30,000 so your mileage will vary.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
My pal from the east says his father taught him something when he was young:
"There are 2 things you should never have to pay for, and should never pay for. Women, and water"
My friend still abides by his fathers wisdom, but I told my friend..
You were from the east, a different time, a different era, a different realm. The west, is not so. Here, everything cheap, is expensive in other ways.
JayViceroy 11y ago
I understand your point that it can be convenient. But how is plating women not more convenient and at least in my experience 100 times cheaper?
Step 1: pick up girl at bar or club. Get number, physical or f close. Step 2: take out on date with drinks, max $80 for a night unless I'm interested in spending some money. Step 3: take her home and fuck her or get close. Step 4: invite her over for date 2, make food have a couple drinks and f close. Step 5: repeat step 4, with movies, drinks and/or Netflix at your place.
Worst case you next a girl or you get to step 5 and don't have to pay more than $20-40 on a night when you hang out with her unless she pays for everything which your cost is then $0.
Prostitutes are more expensive the hotter they are, so unless you're fucking post wall prostitutes (ew), I don't see the point or value in it.
Lastly convenience wise, a plate is a text away, and honestly I've never fucked a prostitute before so finding ones in my city doesn't seem like an easy task. (Backpage/craigslist website listing girls all look disgusting from what I've seen).
oldredder 11y ago
Games they play and numbers. Step 1: pick up girl at bar. Will take 10 to 100 tries to get 1, the other 90 to 99 will lead me on then leave with another guy. So already my cost is at 100 to 1 loss.
Step 2: date with drinks, max 80/night. That's already the cost of the hooker right there in dollars. Girl can flake, leave mid-date, lead me on then LMR and if I push or she's unhappy that I think sex is such a high priority she'll consider the rape-card even if I never touched her.
NOW My future and safety are on the line for YEARS worth of jail time. And I've already now shelled out the hooker money. We're at step 2.
You already lost this one. The cost you're paying is actually more than the price of the hooker. And more dangerous.
"Lastly convenience wise, a plate is a text away"
No. Plates are text-game meaning if you text too much she's out, if you text content showing too much interest she's gone, she'll fuck another man, because until you've paid the right cost to her validation machine - which is always unknown to you - you're not welcome.
You seem to be under-pricing the real cost of what you're doing.
JayViceroy 11y ago
All of your comments are too bitter to respond to. If you became a more positive person girls would become more positive around you. I have a good time pretty much every time I go out with any plate of mine. Not sure if you've been burned too many times or just not worked through the anger phase. Women are not evil; sometimes they just have evil tendencies. I'd argue they don't even do those things spitefully. Get that out of your mind.
oldredder 11y ago
really?
No.
My comments are rooted in the fact of what the world is. Period.
Girls are not "more positive" because you are. Girls continue to be manipulative, exploitive and play games no matter what you do and that includes not even letting you get close enough to play game, flaking, while acting on calls or in text like they're interested, or in person letting you get her number, or a number, and then intending to blow you off from the get-go.
I never had an anger phase. It's beneath me. I simply call it like it is.
Evil tendencies = evil period.
But that's a side-topic, not this topic.
Women absolutely act spitefully to men: get that INTO your mind. It's the facts. They spite each other, spite men, do it for entertainment.
When a woman toys with a man and messes with his day, his life, that's entertainment to her. Women don't think like men. Get that INTO your mind. It's the facts.
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JayViceroy 11y ago
If you don't enjoy female companionship that's on you. It's not like hanging out with a girl is or should be a burden. So many guys say that girls are a waste of time and completely worthless, but really id like to know how many of them have social anxiety because they have no social skills. These are the same guys that complain that they don't get girls, but are fat and lazy and looking for an easy way into the top 20%.
Stop making excuses. Stop procrastinating. Stop eating Doritos and better yourself.
oldredder 11y ago
Most of us don't enjoy that "companionship". Female behaviour is negative, hurtful and annoying. There's nothing about it to enjoy. If you enjoy their bullshit game-playing you might also enjoy being punched in the face for fun.
Sure, guys join up for sparring, cage fighting, etc., literally do enjoy being punched in the face. That's a personal choice but it's for you - not me.
I certainly have solid game and no social anxiety. I simply get angry when people waste my time. I feel precisely the same about paying $20 for a dime bag of coke and getting flour, as playing up women and getting blown off for nothing. If you keep at the numbers you'll pay a HIGH cost but eventually get your coke / woman.
Or, you can go to a more reliable source and pay an average good price and get ripped off ZERO times.
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JayViceroy 11y ago
I simply made a hypothetical situation. I wasn't talking about you. What I'm tired of is guys just sitting around making excuses for their shit mentalities and behaviors and hamster an easier way out.
[deleted] 11y ago
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Forever_Unbroken 11y ago
That's if you can f-close in 5 hours which 99% of guys can't
psylord 11y ago
Factor in the cost benefit analysis the potential of getting caught by the police and the hooker costs far far more than that.
oldredder 11y ago
factor in the places we live where there are no police because it's not a crime and the cost is far, far cheaper than you think.
Where I am in Canada it's legal 100% to pay a hooker.
The world is not the united states. The USA is one small pocket of the Internet and the rest of us live in places - Canada, Thailand, UK, Australia, etc. - where no police will be involved because it's as legal as ordering pizza.
psylord 11y ago
It is illegal to pay for sex in Canada. That's what my cursory research has brought up. They punish the buyers and not the providers. Actually that's the way it is in Sweden, Norway and Iceland too. Based on your characterization of prostitution in Canada as 100% legal I question your veracity on it's legality in other countries.
oldredder 11y ago
You are wrong.
It is illegal to SOLICIT (written or spoken) for sex for money in Canada.
It's 100% legal to PAY for sex. And to pay for time. I can pay a woman for sex. I can pay a woman for 30 minutes of her time. I can pay her for 30 minutes where sex happens. I just can't SAY I want to pay her money for sex or that she wants to trade sex for money. Not written, not spoken. We are legally allowed to trade time for money with no implicit / explicit promise there will be or won't be sex in that time.
Based on your legal illiteracy I suggest you try school all over again so you can handle these "book" things and then try handling that LAW stuff.
It's right in the criminal code of canada and more changes are coming, http://www.parl.gc.ca/About/Parliament/LegislativeSummaries/bills_ls.asp?Language=E&ls=c36&Parl=41&Ses=2&source=library_prb
Try reading. You failed.
JayViceroy 11y ago
No college girl takes $100. She takes $25 a couple times and then becomes a plate. Then in which case she's free. I can fuck that college girl 10 times for your 1 dirty pussy prostitute fuck.
oldredder 11y ago
No college girl is that cheap. They average out to far more than 100 each because they play games and disappear, leave you at the last second to fuck another guy or get drunk enough that if you do lay her you're up for a rape charge and the girl MOST likely to accuse you of no-consent drunk-rape is a college girl.
Also the college girls have far more unprotected sex than the hookers so they are all far dirtier. College pussy is dirty pussy; hooker pussy is cleaner. They get checked every month no matter what and always use condoms unless you can somehow get a one-off situation.
"She takes $25 a couple times and then becomes a plate"
Never.
That is a lie right there.
JayViceroy 11y ago
You win the award for the most generalizations in a reddit post. However, there are many slutty college girls that fuck guys without condoms, but I'm not that guy. Strap up and you're good. I'd rather fuck college girls because at least they can pick the value of men they fuck. The fat homeless guy with an extra $50 to spare just smashed your hooker 30 minutes before you. I'll pass.
oldredder 11y ago
You're wrong. I was an escort driver. The hookers pick the quality of men they fuck much more selectively than the bar sluts in college. They have ample reason to do so: they can. They know a man will come along with money who isn't a fat homeless guy with $50 and will pass on him.
[deleted] 11y ago
For a lot of guys, it's not the cost of going out - time is valuable. The time I would lose - spending 2-5 hours doing something I don't want to do for the chance of getting laid - is worth hundreds of dollars to me. As far as convenience and "difficulty finding one", just go to a strip club and give the bouncer $20 and ask him which girls do private parties. Then pick one out like you're at the butcher shop. There is zero chance that an undercover cop is going to commit to the point of jiggling her tits around on the main stage.
psylord 11y ago
Huh that sounds like a good idea, possibly. But dropping $20 on a bouncer just to probably have him tell you no is not a good investment to me.
speakertable 11y ago
Yup. I'm a student right now, so I have no issues taking a few hours out of my schedule to meet up with a girl and then having sex with her (plus I'm free most evenings), but once I start working - ain't nobody got time for that.jpeg
JayViceroy 11y ago
Don't give me that time is valuable bullshit. None of these fuckers are Wall Street executives and Fortune 500 CEOs. These guys are 18-30 year olds looking for a short cut.
Stop the male hamster in his tracks. Your "time spent doing something else" is really just like saying my time is worth X, when really instead of meeting girls at a bar you sit at home on the couch eating Doritos watching Star Trek reruns.
oldredder 11y ago
"Don't give me that time is valuable bullshit"
I'll give it to you TWICE since you asked so nice.
The core of a man's being for all men in all history is that time is the highest value because it's the one thing we can't buy back when it's gone.
Period.
[deleted] 11y ago
Is this where we compare dicks?
Sure, many guys use excuses to not get out there and tame strange, but if you actually do have abundance (not the mindset, but actual options on a given night), then your perspective changes. I don't like Star Trek per se, but 90% of the time, I go fly fishing or build rc planes instead of meeting girls. Same thing. I have very limited free time and I'm going to use it to do things I want to do. I don't place a premium on snatch. If you aren't getting laid, then it becomes important, but if you are, what's it really worth. $150, that's what it's worth. I've had more and I've had zero, but I usually have 1-3 plates. It doesn't hurt to remind yourself that snatch isn't priceless, it's worth $150.
JayViceroy 11y ago
Very good comment. I agree with you entirely.
[deleted] 11y ago
Thanks for saying that. Its pretty rare that I throw down money for sex, but I genuinely think its important. It puts things in perspective. It puts a price tag on cunt. $150, thats what pussy is worth. When youŕe sitting across the table from some broad who thinks her snatch holds the key to endless happiness and world piece and you realize, nah, I can buy one just like that for $150, it makes ¨maintaining frame¨ trivial.
As an aside, the convenience of whore shopping is admittedly very dependent on where you live. If you live in a major city close to some venue that draws a lot of upper-middle class to rich men then youŕe going to be surrounded by a lot of very attractive whores. If you live in suburbia or in the ghetto, its not going to be convenient trying to find someone fuckable, much less attractive. Men fuck whores when they are traveling for work. The hotel bars next to convention centers are 50% dudes and 49% working girls.
[deleted] 11y ago
And what is the problem with taking a short cut?
If they don't feel like going out and getting laid, why do you care? More girls available for you in the bars then.
Bet you also think steroids are "cheating" but at the end of the day, you can work out for 5 years with a strict diet and be smaller than the guy on steroids for 6 months. Sure its cheating, but at the end of the day the guy on steroids looks better.
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ROIVeritas 11y ago
Truth. Anytime a process is automated for the sake of efficiency, there will be harsh opposition from those who cannot adapt to a new way, because the old way works for them.
They thought their way was THE way, the only way, so when you choose to struggle in other areas of life, or you struggle naturally but choose not to do so when the topic shifts to pussy, then you are villified and demonised.
Imagine. And all for respecting and valuing yourself and your time, the money of life. The nerve.
[deleted] 11y ago
You bring up a good point, I had not considered that showing an individual an easier way could be considered an attack on their identity but now that you bring it up it is clear as day.
They most likely take pride in their efforts through the "right" way and so any deviation from the "right" way or showing that the end results of the "right" way can be achieved in a much easier/more direct/less effort manner seemingly invalidates all the effort they put in and makes their achievements seem lesser (in their own mind) as someone who did not put the same effort as them but got the same results.
Limekill 11y ago
$80 for a night!
Obvously you have to come to Eastern Europe or Aisa.
JayViceroy 11y ago
Not really enticing when I got a girl that'll give me head with no condom for an average of a quarter of that or less when we kick it
Limekill 11y ago
ngrats... You can spend a quarter of that and get head.... I can spend nothing and get head....
My point is that you have to spend up to $80 "unless I'm interested in spending some money" and unless you are better than Roosh and the other PUAs then your not going to bang every time you meet a woman. The point is pros are good fun, you can bang some very hot girls (and I'm -extremly- picky) and then you can wipe your hands and you don't have to game plus they will actally do what you want.
And eastern european women are very enticing. Plus they can cook and clean (go Western Feminism). And hot women are usually not that expensive depending on where you go.
If pros aint your thing - fine. No one really cares, but don't knock it unless you have tried it.
JayViceroy 11y ago
So you completely skipped over the fact that I usually don't have to spend anything for a plate to have sex and just went to the highest number to satisfy your argument? Congrats. I don't need to fuck a prostitute to know that her fucking 3 other dudes that day makes my dick go limp.
The reason I don't like the idea of prostitutes as a RP way is because it promotes a sense of laziness. A guy can just say fuck it I don't need to get fit and better myself, I can just make money and fuck prostitutes.
That's all good and well but that's not promoting TRP ideas of men becoming better men. That sounds very much a MGTOW mentality and that's not what this sub is about.
Limekill 11y ago
Not all prostitutes fuck men three times a day. Do avoid those ones imo (but hey thats just my opinon).
I know guys who use pros who work out and guys who don't who don't work out. Deciding to work out should come from within you to be the best you can. This filters out the laziness (but point taken!).
I think pros can fufil different needs, from learning not paying above the odds for pussy (by being beta in relationship), -> avoiding oneitis <-, and other lessons.
Also easier to bang 9s instantly.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
You seem to be under the impression that a man exists to hunt and court women, however nonsensically the odds are stacked against him. Opting for a guarantee vs. a gamble has nothing to do with laziness. You think you know about male game, so you think a man should go for women 100 tries a day and get shot down and keep trying, sure.
But what about female game? If you knew how they have it, and how men are levelling the playing field, which has little to do with mgtow, or laziness, THEN you'd know what this sub is really about.
Some men, white knights of course, truly believe that the acme of a man's existence, the pinnacle of his life, the most he could ever hope to achieve in the realm of happiness, is to kiss a woman's ass jumping through hoops and chasing her around despite head games, effrontery, psychic vampirism, false seduction, manipulation, and deception.
Do not be one of those men.
redzorp 11y ago
Man, get off your high horse.
First of all, "making money" IS bettering yourself.
Secondly, powerful men throughout the ages, from princes to presidents, have ALWAYS fucked hookers. Why do you think that is? For centuries in Europe it was the rich and powerful that had access to "courtesans" while the poor village schmucks only had access to their dumpy wives.
Time IS money, maybe not for some of the younger guys here. But for any guy over the age of 30, if time is NOT money for you - then you are doing something very wrong in your career.
I'm 49 and have done it all: girlfriends, plates, LTRs, cheap ho's, high class escorts - and I can definitely say that my most exciting and fulfilling (and cost effective) experiences have been with the latter group.
Frank Sinatra famously set up President John F. Kennedy with high-end hookers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNNI38Ny_as#t=253
JayViceroy 11y ago
If you have a TV and watch it more than only a few hours a week (under 5), you have plenty of time to go meet women.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't want guys to go straight to the pro option because many of them may forego the betterment of their physique out of laziness.
Pros are an option, but should be after the fact. To each their own.
oldredder 11y ago
I don't have a TV and wouldn't have time to watch more than 2 hours per MONTH.
Guys who have value don't have all that free time.
Bortasz 11y ago
In my opinion is go down to what you have more.
You have more money than time: Prostitute are better option.
You have more time than money: Plate are better option.
Time=Money. You will spend one of this thing.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
Great point.
Especially when you're paying a fee to be with that male.
Briffault's Law
oldredder 11y ago
but for men it's fairly easy to convert time to money hence getting the better deal. At some point all free time can be consumed for plates giving less sex and less quality than what a hooker will deliver.
Bortasz 11y ago
I agree.
It all comes down to what you prefer spending. I totally see older men with great career spending money on prostitutes because it is more convince than trying catch, or maintain a plate.
BlackHeart89 11y ago
Honestly, I'd do the same thing if I had the funds. So I'm sticking with plates until then. If see a hot enough prostitute, I'll consider it. Calling it a gift to myself or something.
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icanhazTRP 11y ago
You should consider writing something about your experiences at /r/GEOTRP
sandboarding 11y ago
Do you go on websites that specialize in these services (as in take a cut of the payment and provide accommodation) or do you book them from places similar to craigslist? I'd be scared of being robbed or falling into a trap when using the latter.
oldredder 11y ago
in Canada the escort agencies have phone numbers, are listed IN the yellow pages and have web sites.
RPenetrate 11y ago
It's semi-legal here and there's a couple of large websites that have feedback and ratings systems. It's not any different to buying something on eBay really. The same rules apply - if something looks too good to be true and the seller has no feedback, then best to give it a miss.
hekatomba2 11y ago
Here u have an example how it looks in Poland. http://www.roksa.pl/
MentORPHEUS Senior Endorsed 11y ago
Thanks for the well written information. I've known guys who swear by escorts. For some incel men, they're as close to angels as they'll experience on earth. I think it would be better and safer overall if it was legalized and sensibly regulated. Whatever creams your twinkie, go for it I say.
As for me, I've never been interested in prostitutes because I only want sex when there's a mutual desire and connection with the woman. It's a pretty strong and visceral feeling for me, so I am biased when I wonder aloud, does this really even belong on Red Pill? It's like bunting and being allowed to run the bases- not a sexual strategy I'd brag about or recommend to my stepsons or nephews.
oldredder 11y ago
because it is red pill and the desire to be validated by another woman's desire for you is not - that's an emotional personal need that isn't reflected on the rest of us, nor is that a sexual strategy. It's more like a fetish.
NeopolitanAfterglow 11y ago
I feel like I'm on a video game forum reading a lengthy post about how a guy started using cheat codes years ago and never looked back.
To each their own, but I feel that bagging that unicorn for free is the ultimate challenge, the very challenge I live for, and I would rather fail at a game legitimately than win on easy mode.
MGTOW_player 11y ago
I almost thought you said "begging," heh. ;)
Sounds like you're staying stuck in the gynocentric game they want you to be "too proud" to leave.
Although if the "high" of the chase gives you more pleasure than busting a nut in a hot whore, more power to you.
I used to think like you did, but then I tried fucking prostitutes overseas and it was amazing. US prostitutes just didn't do it for me, I agree.
AlphaXpipubs 11y ago
To me it is pride. If you can buy it, I can fuck it for free.
oldredder 11y ago
So your time has no value, it's free?
[deleted] 11y ago
You rely on women for validation?
[deleted] 11y ago
That's pretty gay. Believe me, anything you can acquire through talent or hard work and cunning, I can buy...piss on, and burn it to the ground and not give a fuck. The only people that brag about not "having" to buy things are people that can't.
juanqunt 11y ago
Exactly. You think filthy rich people care about saving a dollar on their groceries by clipping out a coupon?
Better to earn more and save big on the huge investments, than trying to save on every little thing.
[deleted] 11y ago
Rich people are often cheap, but not when it comes to saving time or effort on menial tasks. No matter how rich you are, you can't buy time back. I'm not "filthy rich", but I don't clean or do my laundry or my dishes or wait in line. My time is worth way more to me than the $20/hour I have to pay for someone else to do it.
oldredder 11y ago
I guess if you have a lot of laundry. I can do everything else while my laundry's going and it will cost me no more than 5 minutes of my personal time - since the rest is done by machine and multitasking - so how many dollars is 5 minutes worth? I suppose if I was a rich father of 3 with a wife too and all her clothing I'd pay someone else to do it but I'd at least have the machines in the house so it's not far to go and waiting for some employee return with laundry done from some other place.
[deleted] 11y ago
Having my laundry done isnt that much help for the reasons you stated, though most of my dress/work clothes cant simply be thrown into the dryer. I wouldnt hire someone to come do my laundry. But since I hire them to clean my toilets, wash my dishes, do the floors and windows and so on...and it only takes them 5 minutes between the other things, I really only have to pay ~$1.
oldredder 11y ago
That number doesn't compute.
[deleted] 11y ago
Unless there are 100 minutes in an hour, you are correct. lol. It's closer to $1.67.
bobbatosakosanose 11y ago
You can never fuck above your smv. And your smv has limits.
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8n0n 11y ago
I think the homeless guy that sleeps around with women for shelter would be of interest for you.
http://redd.it/2ghf7q
AlphaXpipubs 11y ago
That is not true... your SMV is perceived. The rich, great lead singer may be a little bitch as seen by all the news articles of his divorce to his hot wife. The whole point of game is dating above what you think your SMV is.
bobbatosakosanose 11y ago
You cant bed a playboy model if you arent a "somebody." But you can if you have the money to pay her off. You are limited. You can sleep with strippers, pornstars etc if you are willing to pay for it. You dont stand a chance otherwise, with all the attention they get. And the rich lead singer is a "somebody". Most PUAs are avg joes.
AlphaXpipubs 11y ago
Not true.... I have done it with just attitude. I am 44, and my hot girls is 22. And I am broke. It is all in your view. This is us. http://www.pipubs.com/about-us/ Most guys have your limiting belief, which is why we have this thread.
juanqunt 11y ago
Well said. Read Charisma Myth and books on sales. You can pitch yourself at whatever SMV level you want. You just have to wait for the right sucker who buys into it.
aptway 11y ago
If anybody here knows where I can find good value girls in LA, hit me with a PM. It'd be very much appreciated.
TekkomanKingz 11y ago
Nowhere. You need to move and get out of the palimony state along with the state where a girl can put your name down as father of her child without DNA test proving relation.
twistedbrother2 11y ago
The way it works here is instead of paying the hooker directly, get to a club on Hollywood, get a table, and boom free hookers all night (pending you pay for drinks, fast food on the way home, and provide a venue to fuck in).
DoesNotMatterAnymore 11y ago
Well, if you happens to be in Budapest....
http://www.callgirl-list.com/lap/sexpartner_frontpage/index.php
obviously it's NSFW
bobbatosakosanose 11y ago
If you have the money, your time is more valuable. You could be out there making millions instead of at a club trying to impress a subpar 5 or 7. Paying for it gives you more sex and a larger variety. Its a real harem. Harems were never about mutual attraction. Felix Dennis is rumored to have had a three some every night with hookers of the finest variety. You can't do that unless you are a celebrity. Even then, look at the bill Cosby ending. If you earn a lot and are in a field where your image is everything , pros are safer and cost effective (when it cones to casual sex). Remember, women mostly want the sex to get them something from you, be it money, status, commitment, etc. Its their only resource and they will be stingy with it. And if they don't get what they want.... They have rape claims. And plate spinning isn't always safe as a celeb. Tiger woods, the football player who had his house burnt down by "Lisa left eye ". of TLC. Just some examples. Plate spinning isnt honest. You are trying to bed the woman by lying about your SMV and about the nature of the relationship. This naturally opens up room for a woman to be pissed and try to fuck your life up.
speakertable 11y ago
Yepppp. I get bored if I have sex with the same girl for >3 weeks.
Also true. Stuff like waiting before responding to texts or faking outcome independence is an artificial inflation of your SMV (implies you have better things to do although you don't).
Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago
If only. In the US where I live it's more like $150/hh if you want anything above a crack whore.
oldredder 11y ago
in the North US it's not far to get to Canada and in my country it's legal. $150/hr will get you 8 to 10 hotness regularly.
Sandkasten 11y ago
This topic has such a social stigma that even some of my close friends, who share some of the beliefs of this sub, are completely against it. I never tried to address this issue and probably never will.
So I'll just say a few words on this topic because OP already made a good post: Here in Germany prostitution is legal. Most of the brothels are clean and full of pretty Eastern European women. Pros are more conscious of their sexual health. They use condoms and test regurarly. Of course there is still a risk, but the risks are exaggerated. The real risk to catch a STD is way lower than you think.
I think my first experience with a pro played a major role in my abundance mentality. The only women I still put an effort into are those I'm really attracted to.
This thread also reminds me of this AMA: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2204367/slept-with-over-100-hookers-AMA/?&page=1
riverraider69 11y ago
Notes on STDs. While it's true working girls are extremely clean for the amount of exposure they have, a few extra comments:
beware of the young and stupid, especially those who just came to the big city. They tend to be a lot less educated and more likely to take risks.
for stuff like gonorrhea condoms are only a partial solution, and you can also catch them from unprotected blowjobs. Fortunately they're not really dangerous when treated, just very annoying.
the really dangerous stuff like HIV is stopped by condoms
strange enough, performing oral sex on a woman is a lot safer then the other way around.
Again, the advice above is not really directed at prostitutes. In my experience most of them are very clean. But having sex with 100+ women will bring its share of risk, so better to lower it if you can.
[deleted] 11y ago
One of the worst posts I have ever read on here.
I am a pretty attractive guy, not model status as you claim to be but definitely in the top 10% of guys, and choosing hookers over plates would be the last thing I'd do, for two main reasons.
1) A girl that is actually into you will fuck you way better than some hooker staring soullessly at the ceiling while you plug away with a condom on. My main plate at the moment has the mirena implant and every time I fuck her I am reminded how much I hate condoms.
2) If you are actually attractive, muscular, alpha etc, you can get sex easily with little to no cost. I get 10-20 tinder matches a day so I have a constant stream of women I can proposition from the comfort of my couch at home. Last weekend I had one come to mine and the next day, drove to some asians place and fucked her.
oldredder 11y ago
nope. Once the money/time is paid the girl is the same.
Doesn't matter if hooker or not.
But a girl who's a hooker wants repeat business, a girl who's validated that you want your penis in her doesn't care now if you're satisfied or not.
My VERY FIRST girl ever got off then ENDED sex before I could cum. She knew I was a virgin. Bullshit. No hooker would do that to me.
"If you are actually attractive, muscular, alpha etc, you can get sex easily with little to no cost."
Never. For even the richest man, the hottest man, this is untrue. The cost is always there in dollars for dating, in time for meeting and logistics, all of it. It's the same. Often more expensive for non-hookers.
RPenetrate 11y ago
I don't believe for a second that my approach would be for everyone. Most of my friends think I'm crazy for lots of reasons, including the two you've mentioned. In any case:
1) I almost always use condoms with plates and hookups now anyway so it makes no difference to me. Hookers get a bad rap for the whole staring up at the ceiling thing. I get one like that occasionally but, in my experience, it's only really the chicks in huge tourist trap red light districts that are like that (Patpong, Amsterdam etc)
2) There's still a time cost with Tinder. I live in a large city and even on Tinder's closest setting, the girl can still be a huge pain in the ass to get to - I'm talking like an hour and a half stuck in traffic or on the train. I can go online, search by postcode and find a hooker who's a 5-10 minute walk away. I can't find out where a Tinder chick is until after I've broken the ice.
speakertable 11y ago
God knows how many girls I've stopped talking to on Tinder because she was >20 minutes away
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cover20 11y ago
Doesn't take being top 20% in meaningful ways to get alpha results. That's why there is game.
Maybe you have to be in the top 20% in gaming skill. But that's a lot easier than so much self improvement. Just a little targeted self improvement as you feel the need is plenty. It's more fun to get a girl without doing so much to "qualify" for her.
[deleted] 11y ago
Ah, but isn't it cheating to pay? I guess I thought of it as a shortcut i would regret..
Just lower your standards; that's the best advice to get laid IMO.
oldredder 11y ago
lowering your standards is a cost too: it's disgusting to sleep with 4's and borderline to sleep with 6's. I will go as low as 7 but I've had 8 - 10 and will stick to that.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
This is what feminist society wants you to do.
Sink your level, and drown in regret. Or have no morals or care for yourself. If you don't get something that you want in life, a man will go insane.
speakertable 11y ago
ewwww
SwagYoloJesus 11y ago
Thing is, I like to know that the girl genuinely wants me as well. Knowing she's only in it for the money is the biggest turnoff ever.
RPenetrate 11y ago
The good pros will have you believing that they genuinely do. You just have to look out for the ones that advertise themselves as "GFE" (Girlfriend Experience) specialists.
I see one semi-regularly (she's a bit pricey unfortunately..) that jumps into my arms when I arrive, brings me beers, acts all disappointed when I leave, tells me how much she misses me. I know she's just bullshitting and doing her job, but I couldn't care less when I'm there. I guess it's kind of like watching WWE.
[deleted] 11y ago
Who gives a fuck what she wants. Basing your self-worth or even the value of an experience on what some broad wants is straight down the checklist - blue pill hall of fame.
SwagYoloJesus 11y ago
My enjoyment of sex depends on how much I am able to make my partner enjoy it. There's nothing bluepill about that, no one likes a lifeless doll.
lemonparty 11y ago
"wants you" as in pure lust? because maybe one in ten wanted you just for your cockmeat
beyond that, "wanting you" is a complicated equation that is going to include your time, your money, etc no matter how you slice it
SwagYoloJesus 11y ago
If a hooker could choose between fucking you and getting paid, or just getting paid without fucking you, they'd choose the latter.
I want to be with girls, who, given the choice, would rather fuck me than not. Who want to get fucked.
oldredder 11y ago
Nope. Hookers can choose any time to take the money or give it back or come back another time for no money. They'll choose as they please without a pattern.
All girls want to be fucked it's just a question of time/context. All girls want to toy with men & exploit them: choosing hookers is how you remove that from the equation when getting sex.
rickyboy 11y ago
That is a good point. Wanting each other is part of having good sex.
WeCantHaveFun 11y ago
You're deluding yourself.
Everything has a money value, and since they seek value, they are always and only in it for the money.
cover20 11y ago
It's sort of fun to fuck a gold digger and then not deliver the gold she's after. A cynical attitude I know. OP likes women enough that this doesn't give him a lot of fun any more.
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saltinado 11y ago
Women also like emotional responses from men. It definitely isn't all about the money.
WeCantHaveFun 11y ago
Which has value therefore has money value.
The best male prostitutes don't fuck, they provide that emotional bullshit and coax out their dead husband's wealth. That level of concierge service gets the best pay.
An economic number can be put on anything quickly.
oldredder 11y ago
The vast majority of male prostitutes are fucking men, just how it is.
saltinado 11y ago
Could you clarify that? Because if you're creating a situation with rich widows, I will remind you that the vast majority of women are not rich widows.
WeCantHaveFun 11y ago
They pay for "companionship", another femeuphamism for emotion. They get looted because "he really loves me!", just like how the 18yo girl really loves the 50yo.
Women don't want to fuck. They like all of the steps pre-fucking, but they find the actual act a bore and a bother.
Otherwise, we'd all be in the streets fucking until we starved.
The rich widow example is, in fagspeek, reductio ad absurdum.
saltinado 11y ago
You have never met the right women. Let me tell you, some women reeeally enjoy the actual act of sex.
WeCantHaveFun 11y ago
They enjoy the validation.
They do not enjoy orgasms as we do; otherwise, we'd be...
oldredder 11y ago
They do but most men lack the skill. When you have the skill those women will fuck non-stop and not for validation but for pussy-dripping orgasms.
Sex God Method.
Look it up. Pro here.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
"Men desire a woman; women desire the MAN's DESIRE, that is all"- The Art of Seduction
Id recommend to all the Art of Love by Ovid, the Art of Loving by Eric Fromme, and The Art of Seduction. These books show that even the ancients knew and delierated the truths in this sub.
You can even see in certain porn flicks, where a particular girl is servicing a man who is ooohing and ahhhing and seems to be over the moon for her and enjoying her abilities compared to the guy in another flick with the same girl who is strictly plowing.
If the guy is sweet and tender with her, she's orgasming and enjoiying herself, because she is validated through the man's reception of pleasure from her.
If the guy is simply plowing but not oohing and ahhing, then the girl is less typically present mentally. She will let out sounds of discomfort and displeasure, because this type of man does not care about her pleasure. They tear up.
Women want one or more men to desire ONLY them, make her feel like no other girl exists.
Men want only to attract and have their way with as many women as possible. Patrice O'Neal has a good metaphor for this, where we as men are sport fisherman, women being the fish.
Men catch a fish, show their pals, take a few pictures as mementos and proof that we can land a big catch, then we release, because it's for sport.
Women who we catch and release flop back into the boat and go "hey so are you gonna be fishing around here next week??"
The difference in attachment is evident.
Errol Flynn was quoted as saying the similar. How he was attracted to the feminine, that is the woman's form. But her mind, her mannerisms, her inflections. That is not desirable to most men, when they analyze why it is they want a woman in the first place.
SquareScrewdriver 11y ago
I got nothing against pros, but man, you are seriously into the buttlicking yah?
rickyboy 11y ago
I was wondering if OP kisses the whores. Maybe it is just me, but i just feel that would gross
[deleted] 11y ago
Doesn't bother me, but if you're paying then you don't need to. I can't afford it, and don't want to pay anyways.
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friggindoc 11y ago
I hate condoms and thats why i don't like fucking hookers. Better to turn a plate imto your personal prostitute and go rawdog once you know shes clean
oldredder 11y ago
Can't ever know she's clean. Women who like to be plates or FWBs are careless with condoms with other men at the same time. That level of trust is unearned.
JakofClubs 11y ago
I just can't stop picturing Patrick Bateman in American Psycho fucking two hookers. No offense.... Bateman obviously had high SMV but enjoyed the convenience of prostitutes.
BayStreetBaller 11y ago
hes also the epitome of the Dark Triad Alpha
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Fuck_shadow_bans 11y ago
For a high powered trader like that, time is waaaay more valuable than money. The time it would take to go to a club and chat up chicks until you found one to take home would be significantly more expensive to him than just paying outright in cash.
ROIVeritas 11y ago
You can have a guaranteed trade with a trader, or a trade with a potential traitor.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Don't hate the buyer, hate the market.
tits_out_forTheBoys 11y ago
Srs bro, when you are next doing a girl doggy, do the arm flex in a mirror if possible. I have managed it once and it was a great feeling
[deleted] 11y ago
Got a mirror in my room for that exact reason. Feel like high giving myself.
Bortasz 11y ago
You mean this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ymZ6sxFBbU
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justskatedude 11y ago
What about herpes or warts?
oldredder 11y ago
no change in risk: same for hookers, plates, one-night stands or a wife, much less a cheating wife.
justskatedude 11y ago
Hookers have sex with hundreds of guys though, normal girls don't. The odds of running into herpes I feel like would be greater then a normal.
oldredder 11y ago
sadly: normal girls DO.
That's the kicker. Those hookers have a strong business incentive to avoid any STD and those girls who pretend they aren't hookers aren't nearly so careful. They'll look and see if someone's got herpes and decline whereas the drunk bar slut won't care or even think about it.
WeCantHaveFun 11y ago
Non-intravenous drug using prostitutes are cleaner than non-intravenous drug using non-prostitutes.
What little research there is on the subject, confirms this almost 100% with some clustering every now and then.
We all know why this research is conducted every decade or so.
TK-85 11y ago
Here's my take on herpes at least.
It has terrifying name, most people have it, and it doesn't really do shit. (Your dick doesn't fall off, no pissing blood, function remains intact)
My conclusion is that if you're playing this game (bangs, plates, ONS, ect) you either have already banged a few, have it yourself (but haven't noticed, because it doesn't do shit), and will bang someone who has it.
If you aren't blood testing every bang you come across, you really aren't scared of the herp anyway. You're just reacting as you have been taught by advertising companies and those who don't know better.
RPenetrate 11y ago
An old LT girlfriend of mine had herpes. You can only catch it if it flares up and, in her case at least, that was only roughly once per year. I never caught it as we simply stopped having sex when it flared up. It lasts about a week or so and it appears to cause quite a bit of discomfort, as such, I'm not sure if hookers would even work if they had an outbreak. Either way, it's a risk I'm willing to take as there isn't much that can be done to prevent it.
In terms of warts, I always have a quick look under the hood before I start any work and I believe you'd also be able to feel them with your fingers beforehand anyway(?). As far as I know, they're quite rare and I can't imagine too many girls would work when their pussy looks like a toad.
grewapair 11y ago
This is not true. You can catch it other than during a flare. You can catch it wearing a condom as it may be in the nearby skin or her mucous.
You probably caught it multiple times, but are asymptomatic, as 80 percent of the population is.
RPenetrate 11y ago
Shit. Well I guess the bitch lied to me. I can't say I'm surprised.
Imapancakenom 11y ago
Yeah, he's right about the asymptomatic thing. You can totally have the virus in your system despite never having had an outbreak. Try getting tested sometime if you're curious, you may very well test positive.
justskatedude 11y ago
If herpes is so easy to avoid why is it spreading like wildfire? Are you sure you can only catch it if the girl is having symptoms?
TekkomanKingz 11y ago
Because people are dumb and have drunk sex without checking for symptoms in their partners?
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oldredder 11y ago
What? Drug companies will lie to us? Say it ain't so.
cuthrowit 11y ago
The only people who say that are the ones who already have it and don't like feeling shitty about it. Besides, I can guarantee any quality girl you might actually see a future with isn't going to see it that way when the time comes to disclose that shit.
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TekkomanKingz 11y ago
The only ones who make a big deal of it don't have it. I don't have either but I used to be a paranoid germaphobe just like you. Most people have it Doctors don't test for it unless there are symptoms. You need to specifically request HSV-2 or HSV-1 anti-body blood test.
Same with HSV, males are not even screened for it because it's assumed they have some strain. They only screen Women for it because it mainly causes cervical cancer in Women.
Also remember - If you got chickenpox you have HERPES!!! Ooohhh the cootiesssss...LMAO, the same fucking virus family causes chickenpox which resurfaces later as shingles in those who are immunocompromised later in life.
The more you learn about microbiology the less you are gonna care about this shit. Prevent what you can prevent but life does not end because you have a non-life threatening communicable disease.
Do you realize how many millions of dollars the sales of "cold sore" meds are? Tell me it's a big deal other then the dollars lining the pockets of the OTC producers?
[deleted] 11y ago
I literally can't even. Thanks for contributing, I really think you should work harder to fuck normal women because it's less dangerous, cheaper, and in my opinion, more fun. I don't think this post breaks any rules, but it sure makes the rest of us look like a bunch of incels.
Kill_Your_Ego 11y ago
Sounds a hundred thousand times safer then getting married though. I doubt the government is going to withdraw money from your paycheck to give to a hooker for ten years...
[deleted] 11y ago
Certainly. We were debating whether it's better than fucking chicks the organic way though.
NillKiggers9 11y ago
LOL! beep boop! Prostitution is the same as a realtionship with a woman. TRP is teaching me how to be a soulless manwhore. Yay, i win the game!