The Permanent [Game] Noob & The Autistic Alpha
Two of the most prevailing archetypes of men that are struggling in the manosphere:
Permanent [Game] Noob: struggles to learn game [or RP] no matter how much reading he does, how many questions he asks, how much support and coaching he receives, and what he tries out in the field.
Autistic Alpha: manages to successfully learn game through narrow and mechanical rote learning and application, but fails to successfully manage or maintain any of his relationships thereafter due to lack of social calibration.
(I don't know who, if anyone, ever coined the term Autistic Alpha, but I saw @redpillpusher use it here and couldn't find it anywhere else).
While somewhat different in levels of field success and ability to learn, BOTH archetypes of men struggle from the same underlying problem(s), which is primarily poor social understanding: poor understanding of social norms and social skills, not reading the room, not having an interesting social life, not understanding social contract or basic concepts such as reciprocity between them and other people.
The common reason both kinds of men have a foundational lack of social skills and social experience is from having a life trajectory of no or little to no friends to suddenly finding PUA/game/seduction or TRP and trying to game like Chads from a place of a fragile social foundation.
These are usually guys that have been fairly lonely most of their lives prior to discovering manopshere content and skip numerous requisite steps to actually understanding anything they learn in game and manosphere.
What Differentiates Them?
The Permanent Noob is just that, a guy perpetually stuck on tutorial island for game and RP, even with dozens of guys helping and coaching him on his dozens (if not hundreds) of posts and with a world of information and guides at his fingertips to use even half-correctly, the Permanent Noob has the perfect storm of misconceptions and misunderstandings preventing him getting anywhere at all, or at least anywhere faster than 2 miles an hour for progress.
The Autistic Alpha on the other hand, manages to succeed at game, but primarily through rote learning and rote application of game and NOT through a genuine understanding of the broader social dynamics that people operate on. He learns what works (mostly on easy enough and broken, horny sluts that will typically respond to copy and paste "asshole" game) without actually understanding why it works. The Autistic Alpha is usually the kind of guy that gets told that he "swallowed The Red Pill on an empty stomach" because he carries PUA rote learning into every facet of his social and relationship life.
*From the Wikipedia entry on rote learning in the second subsection "Versus critical thinking" [emphasis mine]:
*By definition, rote learning eschews comprehension, so by itself it is an ineffective tool in mastering any complex subject at an advanced level. For instance, one illustration of rote learning can be observed in preparing quickly for exams, a technique which may be colloquially referred to as "cramming".
The main difference separating the two is that the Permanent Noob has several, if not dozens, of misconceptions (be it game or just social knowledge) that actively work against even rote learning game, even when it is spelled out in plain English, whereas the Autistic Alpha is capable of digesting game concepts as though they are facts about trains. The Autistic Alpha also tends to have less empathy and investment in his sets as well as more capacity for non-personal and unemotional self-reflection of his failures, which is more conductive to rapid trial and error without becoming discouraged.
Why Lack of Social Foundation Hurts Both
As mentioned at the top, both of these archetypes suffer from a weak foundation of social skills. Most of them went from being relatively lonely to finding game and RP.
Game, and by extension sexual relations, at their core, are fundamentally derivative products of social dynamics (albeit mixed with sexual tension and sexual strategy).
The Permanent Game Noob and Autistic Alpha missed out on a lot of the social skills they would have developed if they had grown up with a lot of (real) friends. When you have real friends and consistent social experiences growing up you learn about basic:
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Turn-taking (talking, sharing, reciprocity)
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Cue-reading (boredom, interest, excitement, anxiety, attentiveness)
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Reactions to you (to the things you do and say, so you can calibrate)
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Reactions to others (how others make you feel helps you learn how to act)
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Mirroring (learning what to do based on others behavior)
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Planning (logistics, spur-of-the-moment hangouts, venue-hopping)
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Situational Awareness (the effect of different scenarios on people's behavior)
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Empathy (what others are feeling and how to respond to their situations)
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Eliminating Bad Habits (friends help you realize what you should NOT do socially)
- Humor/Banter (friends help you learn what humor works and good boundaries for banter)
The Permanent Game Noob loses at the starting line: if he were to understand social dynamics much better, it would clear up many, if not almost all, of his game misconceptions and he would be able to understand where game fits into socializing, how to suggest a girl go somewhere with you at an acceptable pace, etc.
The Autistic Alpha loses at the finish line: he gets the lays, gets the results, but fails to keep women in his orbit because he has no social life, character development, or nuance to maintain a reciprocal human relationship with another person for more than a few weeks (or limited months if he gets that far).
Both guys continue to do behaviors and other social snafus that end up ultimately killing all of their sets or relationships, and thus one of the only real solutions to their problem(s) is to fix their broken and under-developed social foundations.
How To Fix It
If the Permanent Game Noob or Autistic Alpha applies to you or a guy you know, the best way to fix it is to STOP trying to digest more game or RP. More game and more RP content will ONLY exacerbate the problem.
The reason you KEEP running into the problems you have with game or relationships is because you lack a lot of the social foundation that is required to integrate sexual dynamics into your life with women. By having a history or broad experience of different friendships (and not just with some other loner or two you know who is in the same boat), you actually gain a lot of the requisite skills that game and sexual dynamics are directly downstream from.
You cannot build a house that stands up without a foundation. Even if you somehow manage to get the house up (looking at you Autistic Alphas), it will collapse shortly after adding another floor to the house (i.e. a FWB/relationship).
You need a strong social foundation to be a Chad or to have meaningful and lasting social experiences with people (relationships, even just sexual ones, too). You CANNOT skip becoming a socially calibrated individual in your Red Pill journey. If this applies to you and you're a guy who found TRP while lonely and without much a history of friends, and still don't have real IRL friends, get on it ASAP:
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Find clubs (the hobby kind not the nightclub kind)
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Join groups
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Take group classes
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Join sports teams (coed, intramural, school)
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Socialize with people more with the intent to make friends (not lays)
- Strike up more small talk with people
Whatever you do, do not skip making friends and building that strong social foundation, having these skills will make everything else on your journey far easier.
To make friends (if you don't know how): be amicable, try to find common interests, screen for people with common values or similar backgrounds, have something of value to offer them (your skills, humor, etc.) and try to go from there.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago Stickied
Put Game Noob in brackets, because really it could be swapped out with "TRP" or whatever other fundamental misconception they are permanently stuck at*
RedPilledAF 2mo ago
The Autistic Alpha resonates with me quite well. As a nerd, I'm only good at talking about stuff related to my work.
When I get a girl, I try to get rid of her as soon as possible after a few hookups because passing shit tests all the time requires a ton of energy on my part.
I also suck at dealing with adversity from other men. When I walk around with a pretty girl, I get all these weird looks from other men. Some assholes often bump into me on purpose to start shit as well. I hate dealing with these situations and keep dates short as a result.
If I make a new male friend, I have trouble interacting with them because I'm always thinking about my work and making money.
Being autistic is depressing.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
I.e. not interested in them and probably talking about mostly yourself and venting to them. I take it that's what's happening
What do you generally look like? Nerdy? Thin, seemingly undeserving of the sexual success you have with women based on your appearance?
RedPilledAF 2mo ago
Yea, spot on. I have trouble being interested in other people unless they work in something related to my field. Even if they have the same hobbies, I tend to avoid hanging out because I see it as "waste of time" unless it's for something productive like getting bitches, making money, or learning a new skill. I can't see myself hanging out "just for fun" anymore.
My face is average and I believe bitches are attracted to my height of 6'5, along with my style since I started dressing properly. But I don't carry muscle naturally, so I'm a skinny guy with muscle here and there. Nothing impressive. I kinda look like a basketball player even though I never played that shit.
I think I just don't look dangerous is all. I also avoid eye contact, which makes me an easy target.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 2mo ago
Are actually autistic (diagnosed) or what?
Will affect how i answer
RedPilledAF 2mo ago
Of course not. I'm using the Internet version of the term.
Although, I'll probably turn out to be positive if I get diagnosed. Either way, it's possible I wouldn't have achieve the other things in my life had I not been an autistic nerd. For that, I'm thankful.
Can't have your cake and eat it too sometimes.
User4566 4mo ago
I made the first friend I made in YEARS last summer. I was working at a liquor store and made a comment about how “these fake IDs are getting better and better”. After some talk, he asked me for my number and how he needed some friends. The guy is a total chad, we got super wasted on new years in the city it was fucking awesome. I wasn’t even expecting to make a friend after I said that.
Another time on the bus at university, I saw a kid next to me reading a chart and I said “microecon?” And we got into a conversation about that for a bit to which I asked him for his number soon my stop came. I asked him “you drink?” And he even told me how he had no friends.
When I’m at bars and I see people by themselves, I usually ask them “what’s on your mind?”. Chances they have quite a bit to talk about if they need to drink in order to process it. When I was drinking on new years, some guy was talking to my friend while I sat there for about half an hour not talking to anyone. Then when they were done, I figured “fuck it” and talked to some guy sitting alone and I made his night by listening to his shit. Then it was my friend sitting alone and not talking. Not like it was his fault, we were drunk. I’ve been reading a self-help book recently and one of the things it mentions is whenever you’re in a room full of people, you get anxiety at the amount of people there but in reality all you need to do is focus on one person or group at a time rather than EVERYONE there.
I realized that the reason why I am not as socially-calibrated was mainly because I grew up surrounded by screens. I am addicted to video games. I remember all I did soon as I got home from school was play video games. I didn’t know any better, I thought it was normal. I was wrong. Then came the phones, which radicalized everyone and changed how we communicate forever. I wish I knew how infectious video-games were when I was younger. I would have been much more motivated to do more with myself.
Reading this post makes me pretty depressed because I thought all I needed in life was some “action” and I’ll finally feel happy and good enough but I guess that’s not the case. Something that almost brings me comfort is how common it is. Many people are lonely now more than ever. I’m going to try to change that this year but I was told that friendships should come naturally and shouldn’t be forced.
The only thing I did to make friends was make comments to people around me, those who wanted to talk would reciprocate. Another thing I do now is to stop overthinking about the PERFECT things to say. That’s when the anxiety comes in. Talk about dinosaurs.
mixedcids 3mo ago
What pushes you to small talk random people and hold these conversations? Part of me wants to do it more, but then when I actually do it I feel like it's such a waste of time that doesn't lead anywhere. Like I only get enjoyment when I get something worthwhile out of it or something.
User4566 3mo ago
Nothing. I just made comments and some people wanted to talk. At the bar, I drink a bit to get the over-thinking out the way and then simply try to shoot the shit with people. Girls, guys, old, young, who cares.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
They should be natural. All it takes is a synchronous vibe between you and another person. A singular comment that resonates with them and a lack of too many dissimilarities at face value between you and another person is really all it takes. It REALLY is THAT easy
I used to play ungodly amounts of RuneScape as a middle and high schooler. I'm talking 12 hours a day addicted. And as a mid 20s guy i sometimes played another game for 18 hours a day (I'm not even going to say what it was called on the off chance some poor motherfucker gives that game 2 seconds of his time it's that addicting. It really is hell but at some point I wanted women and quit those games cold Turkey.
You don't even need perfect, you just need good enough. I've fucked and pulled women with shit ass openers. They just liked my vibe. The vibe was gold enough, I was just attractive enough, and the chemistry was enough. You don't need perfect, you need to be natural in front of people you have synchronous energy with. That's it. It fuels itself when you have identical vibes with someone.
Depression is acceptance. Don't fight it, let it soak in. You'll be relieved after that. Depression is pain invested leaving your body.
deeplydisturbed 4mo ago
This is very good. RP content has been so well trodden over the past few years that it has almost gone mainstream. So any new nuances add to the canon, which is good.
There is one other type of culprit that I run into more often than I'd like - the troll. There are guys who come here in an obvious attempt to get someone to say something blatantly racists or sexist so they can prove to their constituents how evil we are.
I have run into this more times than I can count.
Not saying you should add this to your list, but most men here knows exactly what I'm talking about. I can say more about the red flags that indicate a troll is afoot.
Good piece. Keep writing.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
Thank you, I really appreciate that more than you realize. I have a lot of stuff in the pipeline and even some EC collabs on the to-do list, so there will be a lot more writings to come
Please do, either here or DM works. I'm so used to instantly and automatically banning overt trolls that I'm numb to it/don't look at it for more than 3 seconds. Can you elaborate from the perspective of someone who has paid more attention to what you've noticed (as I never pay more than a passing glance to it)
EurasianChad 1 4mo ago
Gold.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
Thank you, much appreciated
Redpillpusher 4mo ago
Thanks 4 shout out & I did make the phrase up. This is a thorough post
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
Thanks. You're welcome, Lmao I'm not 100% certain if I've seen it somewhere before but I couldn't find the phrase on Google or this site anywhere
Typo-MAGAshiv 1 4mo ago
lol
Permanent noob is usually an askhole as well, refusing to read anything beyond replies to his questions.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
[Insert 100 emoji]
They are almost always askholes as well. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a permanent noob NOT be an askhole unless they hid the fact by never asking the same question twice or barely responding to comments. Then again, treating AskTRP like Yahoo! Questions is also being an askhole by default.
At any rate, askholes would be punished IRL by actual friends for being blatant askholes, another sign they lack a history of friends and social foundation
Lone_Ranger 1 4mo ago
Can this be stickied or added to the side bar or both?
It's essential reading. It would be good to have it somewhere where we can link to it, when a noobie or askhole needs a constructive steer.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
I can sticky it to the Forum. I'm against sticky-ing my own content to the sidebar should I be the one to do it but if
@redpillschool or @mattyanon thinks it should be up there they have my permission to curate it into there on my behalf
Lone_Ranger 1 4mo ago
I vote in favour, on the basis that it is most likely to actually help guys that are struggling. I'm all in favour of humour / shit posting / satire / banter etc, but this post is just plain useful and helpful.
Let's get it on the sidebar.
Lone_Ranger 1 4mo ago
The 'how to fix it' section is very useful. I've tried explaining exactly that to a few of the younger dudes (not as well as OP).
After hearing the genuine distress of some of the younger dudes, I think that many of them might be suffering from social isolation, which makes gaming all but impossible. My advice has always been ..fix the social isolation first, then move on to developing game.
The stupid lockdowns have made it much worse for a lot of young dudes, that had a hole blown in a vital part of their development.
Vermillion-Rx Admin 4mo ago
Thank you, much appreciated. I try not to make any TheRedPill posts that don't have actionable advice/guidance. New theories I could see not having advice but yeah its always good to post the how-to's
for a couple of years on the dot reds side of RP I thought some guys were just very bad at game but they all had the same background (no friends) and it kind of was an aha realization recently
its good advice, and im sure a lot of guys on here would agree. I am suprised i haven't seen it explicitly written much on here or elsewhere though (outside of "have an interesting life")
This undoubtedly probably had heavy but thus far unmeasurable effects on the incel phenomenon and guys struggling. I wouldn't be surprised if it took a lot of these dude who don't have access to RP a decade to rehabilitate their already weak social skills
Overkill_Engine 2 4mo ago
It also magnified the effects of misocialization that the first world public education system inflicts on young men specifically. When you punish boys for existing and force them to act like psuedo-females in their formative years, it's going to fuck them over later in life.
And I noticed a few of the denizens covered in this post show signs of having come from cultures that force conformity over individualism by default on top of that. (you know who you are, Pajeet) So when they run into first world women they are completely fucking lost because they haven't fully actualized to function in an individualistic environment where you have to out-compete all other available men while being assigned hyperagency not just for yourself, but women too.
RedPilledAF 2mo ago
I'm trying to leave the conformity mindset myself.
How would you go about un-fucking yourself if you had such beliefs?
Overkill_Engine 2 2mo ago
Realizing that the people laying expectations upon you don't always have your best interests at heart for starters, deliberately or otherwise. Realizing that in the long run, a properly calibrated dose of self interest on your part is actually better for everyone, yourself included. To use an analogy, don't take up lifeguard duties (no matter how much others whine and shame you that you should) until you are sure that not only can you save others from drowning, but that you can keep yourself from becoming a casualty FIRST AND FOREMOST. And be achingly clear that you will only try to save those that are behaving in good faith instead of ignoring your guidance - because exhausting yourself saving all the random idiots of the world will only get you and decent people killed. And that you will insist on being adequately repaid for your time and effort on YOUR schedule.
And the people disappointed by that can use their disappointment and a nickel to pay someone that cares, good luck with that.
RedPilledAF 2mo ago
Yea I realized that people don't give a single fuck about me in general. But how do you avoid getting mad about it and cutting off social connections as a result?
I've been applying "How to Win Friends And Influence People" principles in my conversations where I ask a lot of questions, make observations, and allow the other person to talk their ass off for the majority of the conversation.
But whenever I try to share something about myself, they quickly go back to talking about themselves.
I noticed that even my mother does that. I meet her after 3 months and I'm about to share a cool adventure I did the other day and she'll just say "cool", then immediately start talking about how how the god damn neighbors did something stupid, which has nothing to do with me. And as a stoic person, I don't like to talk shit about other people behind their back. Fuck that.
So, I don't see the point in meeting people unless I'm about to get some pussy or some money. Basically, the relationship needs to be transactional for me to participate.
But I reckon it's not healthy because every time I see couples holding hands or people laughing together with their friends, I get fucking mad and sad at the same time.
Just the other day, I saw an asshole resting his head on his girlfriend's lap at the park and got fucking mad because I don't trust my girl enough to do the same thing even though I want to. As a matter of fact, I don't spend much time with her because in my mind, it's just my turn and she's gonna leave me for someone better at some point, so I'd better not simp and get too attached.
Anyway, I could keep on rambling but social connections are so complicated that I'd rather just cut them off entirely and be a workaholic.
Overkill_Engine 2 2mo ago
Sounds like you need to release your own expectations of people "not sucking". It's much harder to be upset or disappointed when you never expected or relied upon others to be worth a damn to begin with.
Suggested author/reading: Marcus Aurelius
RedPilledAF 2mo ago
I think this whole red pill and male self improvement movement bullshit is messing with my head. While normal people are busy connecting with other people and enjoying their relationships, I'm here reading shitty books and listening to garbage advice while my interpersonal relationships keep getting worse.
Time for me to go and get professional help for these issues instead of relying on red pill voodoo.