The ultimate shit test: withholding sex | TheRedPill

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redpillbanana

Posted 10y ago in Blue Pill Example - Permalink - Locked - 16.6K Views

If you're in any sort of sexual relationship with a woman, one of the ultimate shit tests she can give you (short of threatening you/herself/others with harm) is withholding sex. She wants to see how much power she has over you and how much you will grovel for sexual access. The irony is that the more you grovel and supplicate, the less likely it is that you'll be having sex with her.

If you are spinning plates, the test is easy to pass - soft next her, go radio silent and move on to your other plates. In a LTR where you're living together, the test is much more difficult and passing the test usually involves more time and effort on yourself and withholding time/affection beyond what is needed to manage the kids and household.

Here's an illustrative example from my favorite "don't be that guy" sub, /r/deadbedrooms:

Before I threatened with divorce, our sex life was dead as a parrot. We had sex a few times a year. I felt miserable.

This was 4 months ago. Now we have sex once or twice a week.

Dread game works.

The other day, right after sex actually, I asked her how she could change like that overnight, and her explanation was that she "changed her mindset". That sounded so simple, so I asked her why she didn't do it earlier. I had tried to talk about our dead bedroom several times; sometimes whining, sometimes joking, sometimes dead serious, and the only effect was that she got defensive and angry. Up until that time when I said that I wanted a divorce. Only then she bothered to change. Her explanation made me feel cold and empty inside: She wanted to test how far she could go.

She's basically saying, "I was shit testing you" in non-TRP terminology.

Note that she knew exactly how unhappy he was with the lack of sex and yet she refused to change until he passed her test.

I naturally asked her how she could treat me like that, willfully withholding sex even though she know how much it was hurting me. She tried playing it down and explaining it differently, but I do think that she was actually withholding sex as a test. Testing what? How strong my love was to not leave her anyway? My assertiveness, to see how much shit I can put up with before I take measures? I don't know, but at least I now know that she wasn't withholding sex because she didn't understand how important it was for me.

Here the guy describes the purpose of a shit-test and how to respond to it using non-TRP terminology.

Takeaways from this story:

The more your relationship resembles a LTR/marriage, the more important it is to pass shit tests.
In an exclusive LTR, withholding sex is a very serious shit test.
Your life as a man can become really miserable without basic knowledge such as passing shit tests and dread game.
Men who go through this sort of misery eventually start to come to TRP conclusions after they've suffered enough abuse.
When men like this discover TRP, they become fervent converts because they are seeing the truths in their lives confirmed and the lies exposed.

Permalink

BlackHeart89 10y ago

I'm dealing with this chick who is aiming strongly for an LTR. Well fell out 3 weeks ago and recently started back talking.

We hung out once and didn't fuck... What? The shit tests have begun and they are flying in furiously. I fucked up with holding frame when she hit me back. I thought everything was good. You really can't give this bitches an inch. They'll try and take a mile.

After typing this out, I see I'll have to begin soft nexting her. Damn. What a waste.

EDIT: After reading through the comments and thinking back on my successes and failures, once she starts witholding sex, go ahead and consider it a lost. At that point, whatever you say can't hurt you. You'll be better off telling her that you'll just have to fuck her sister than to suck up to her. The moment you give her an inch, she'll take a mile. You'll be having sex "up to" twice a month as opposed to every other day in no time. And as a bonus, she'll become more of a bitch.

cR3dd1t 10y ago

My wife withdrew sex one day. She just didn't let me touch her. The reason was that I didn't like that she and her brother made fun of me. That was rude and I made my displeasure clear to her. Her reaction, simply withdraw sex. Now, I am not a great badass, but I am not bad either. After my first attempt got a rebuff, I didn't touch her at all. Didn't even look at her. Didn't take her out for dinner or for any outing. And after a week, she got horny. Very horny. And literally begged to fuck her. And I did. But I took my sweet time to warm up.

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asksstupidquesti0ns 10y ago

Honest question. Ok I understand that you started ignoring her etc. after she threatened to withdraw sex and this worked out in your favour. But this can also go the other way right? What if she were to start banging someone else, call an orbiter or something? What does one do then? Leave her n move on?

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jaysire 10y ago

Wow, I had this same experience, but it was with my wife and our son. My wife kept joking with him (he's five) that I'm dumb for not knowing some character from a kid's show. It's fine once, even twice, but when it happened the third time during one meal I stopped finding it amusing and after a while she asked me whether I was upset. I told her and of course her reaction was to get mad at me. I just asked her "on what fucking planet is your reaction considered normal?" and she went to bed without a word. The next morning she sheepishly came to me and apologised.

If TRP has taught me one thing, it's that women often construct shit tests out of reversing anger. Basically "I hurt you in some way, you got mad and now I'll turn that around and get mad back at you to see how you cope". It's a devious shit test, because it defies all logic.

Chiveronreddit 10y ago

Damn I got this all the time early in my relationship. Basically I deal with it now by not showing that I am ever upset or angry about anything. Now she says she know's I'm angry but I have a really good way of hiding it. I tell her that's just a sign of maturity. You seem to have some experience with these types of tests, although your "on what fucking planet" question seems to indicate some loss of frame to me, but I could be wrong. Granted she did come back and apologize, but what advice would you have if you found yourself in these situations a lot?

jaysire 10y ago

I think you are on point here when you say "you deal with it by showing you are not mad". The key is not hiding any anger you feel, but to actually put yourself in a mindset where you don't get mad, because you understand that kids and wives don't always work, think and act the way you do.

I don't get mad either, but I do give the occasional stern talking to when it feels like someone steps over the line. In my previous example I felt my wife did just that, so I said what I said not in an outburst, but with a sort of amazement that someone would act that way.

I do agree that losing it in a fit of rage constitutes losing frame, because you shouldn't get angry at people who can't help acting the way they do. Like the proverbial scorpion that stung the frog. Especially if you've identified it as a shit test, since those are something we pretty much agree women can't help.

Taking the pill in the middle of a 10 year relationship with a 5 year kid is a whole different kind of beast and I often feel like TRP is working well outside my home, but coming along much slower inside it. But it is coming along and I see continuous improvement. The other day she said she was really afraid of falling in love with me again, since she didn't really know what level of commitment she could count on on my part. I didn't have a good response to that, so I sort of brushed it off, but it has been on my mind a lot and I see it as a positive sign.

Chiveronreddit 10y ago

Wow I cannot begin to appreciate the fine line I'm sure you are walking here. I wish you and your family all the best, whatever that may end up being.

I know the reversing anger all too well, which is why I am trying to maintain frame at all times. She sees it though. So now, instead of getting mad when she gets mad, I either ignore it or tell her I will not tolerate her throwing a fit when she gets upset about something trivial. She says, "Well you get mad about things too, you just have a better way of hiding it." to which I respond that it is a sign of maturity. I think this has been a successful way of getting her into my frame, because she usually says she will try harder at the end of these types of conversations.

It's an uphill battle, especially for those that have spent so long in the feminist frame. I wish you all the luck and keep fighting the good fight!

waitfor_ittt 10y ago

Ahhh you stuck up for yourself to her and her brother, she didn't like that, tried to betafy you down a notch by withholding sex, and you beat her at her own game. Shit test destroyed.

Obio1 10y ago

Always make it clear that men get sex one way or another.

Not going to be at home? Okay.

But much more importantly: It must be very firmly established that your desire for sex with her is not guaranteed.

Creating desire is her job. So many women live in a fantasy world in which they think men will (for some reason or other) always want to fuck them -- despite their sagging body. It must be clearly spelled out that creating attraction requires effort on her part.

The most common shit test of all is: "Do you still think I'm sexy?"

The world's worst answer to that question is : "Yes".

Do NOT go there. It's the easy way out, but it's ultimately just a license for her to behave however she wants.

Much better to tell her that she can be sexy sometimes. And leave it at that.

If she shit-tests again with "What? Not all the time?"... Just laugh at her.

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enticingasthatmaybe 10y ago

It must also be firmly established that she is not the only vagina in town.

I flat told my second wife that she doesn't have the power to cut me off unless she has the only pussy in my city.

Yeah... that marriage was pretty rocky.

Hydris 10y ago

One of my old girlfriends got pissy and tried to withhold sex. Her attitude changed when we went out to the bar to play pool and she realized other women were flirting with me.

Being reminded that I can replace you kind of puts a damper on your plan now doesn't it.

[deleted] 10y ago

Exactly. I've been asked shit like that before along the lines of "Will you still like me if I get fat?" Which is an easy question - hell no. Your girl has to understand that if she gets lazy or complacent, she's gone.

FattestRabbit 10y ago

What do you even say to the crazy shit like "would you still love me if I lost a leg?"

[deleted] 10y ago

Something equally crazy like "Yeah but you better buy some lube so I can put your stump in my ass." You can't respond to irrational questions with logic, doesn't do any good.

iamaguythrowaway 10y ago

I am into that. My prostate needs some loving too. No homo.

[deleted] 10y ago

Nothing like a good stump to the butt.

fentrix2 10y ago

Story time. So, I used to date this woman (you can see her in my post history as the most toxic person I've had in my life). She is married to this guy and has been for years. She once told me about how before him, she was in an abusive relationship and posted on an AOL forum asking for help and he responded. A few months later she's moving out of there and in with him and they get married.

Fast forward a few years, she's back online looking for something something. She has a lot of free time to herself and he works a lot. She meets a charming domination specialist online, specializing in Gor role play and she becomes one of his slaves. Well, he took on a lot of other slaves and, as I often see, didn't release the ones he didn't have time for, including her. Now it got to the point where she told him she was going to drop his collar. He said if she left him, that he would tell her husband everything. Basically he blackmailed her into being his slave for over a year. He still ignored her a lot but came around often enough to keep the sex tap flowing I guess. She was pretty phenomenal in bed (cums quickly, easily and with a lot of show. If you are into that, then she is one of the best).

So it ends up that the husband suspects something and puts a keylogger on her PC and finds out about her infidelity (but not really the blackmail). They go through a period of rought times, he wants a divorce, they see a counselor, blah blah blah. They end up back together. Apparently at some point in time, he calls her a "bitch".

She took this as the excuse to withhold sex from him. She moved into a different bedroom (citing health problems, which were legitimate but not really enough to sleep separately). He took a stoic route but they never got divorced. I don't know why, I don't know him well enough. I do know that he was running a dread game, but maybe because the divorce threat fizzled it was like losing chicken.

It was well after this that we got together. I used to call her "bitch" in bed, because I'm a giant prick. She also used to say "the last guy that called me bitch, I did this to...". Now she can't say that.

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thedude122487 10y ago

It's really just realizing that you're being put in a situation where you're about to get fucked around if you don't put your foot down.

Yespleasexx 10y ago

My wife does this a couple times a year. As soon as I know she is giving me this shit test I straight up tell her we are having sex tonight. This forces her to say yes or no, and she can't build up the excuse list as the night goes on. If she says no then I just happily say okay I am going to make other plans then. I start limiting conversations to children related topics only, going to the gym in the evening. Continue to tell her we are going to do this tonight and if she continues to say no, make sure I show that it makes absolutely no fucking difference to me what so ever. This usually only last a couple days but on the odd occasion that it last longer there is always one final withdraw shit test.

She has a friend who has not had sex with her husband since there 4 y/o twins were born. She will calmly says something like "you know most couples don't have sex every couple days... Maggie has not had sex in almost 5 years with her husband..." My response is always the same. " I feel sorry for maggies husband... If i was in that situation I would have filed divorce papers after 6 months... It's a good thing we are not in that type of relationship" Then I will usually walk out of the room and leave the house.. go to the gym, bar, golf course. There has never been a single instance this has happened that the night didn't end with my dick in her mouth.

TempusRerumImperator 10y ago

When i grow up i wanna be just like you. Im being serious.

[deleted] 10y ago

Except without the marriage

TestosteroneFilled 10y ago

Marriage is like a business. It's a huge risk, but with (subjectively) little reward. I say subjectively because even though its's probably not for all, it is for me, a huge reward. Having an amazing family at this day and age is something awesome that I'd risk shit for.

[deleted] 10y ago

What makes you think you can't have a family without marriage? This is a genuine question, I see a lot of people arguing this and I fail to understand it.

RealRational 10y ago

Maggie has not had sex in almost 5 years with her husband

I would love to hear her rationalization on this. "Do you think that's a good thing?" "Do you think that's healthy in a relationship?" "Are you saying that you want that to be us?"

Idk man, you've clearly decided otherwise, but I would never have the patience for that crap, after this happened one time I'd have the divorce papers filed with all my assets in protected accounts.

[deleted] 10y ago

I would like to hear HIS rationalization on this

Yespleasexx 10y ago

I don't need to hear her rationalization of this.. She knows just as well as I do what the answers are. We don't have that kind of relationship and never will. I have told her in no uncertain terms that is not a marriage that I am interested in participating in. and to this point have not.

RealRational 10y ago

She knows

If she knows then why does she keep trying to make it that kind of marriage?

She clearly hasn't accepted it.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

The guys I know in this situation want to keep their children.

RealRational 10y ago

Ah yes, I do almost always fail to consider that variable. For me the world is still far too hostile and chaotic to even consider bringing additional life into it; still far too much to be done before the time is right for that.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Yeah, you can have an epiphany later and say you put your bad boy ways behind you ;)

ToddSD 10y ago

Given that people expire after 80 years or so, it's a good thing we don't all share your opinion on that.

RealRational 10y ago

lol, yes yes, take any idea to an absurd extreme and it becomes silly.

Did I, at any point, say I would never procreate at any time within the next 80 years? Of course not, I fully intend to pass on my genes. Frankly, without them you lot are fucked!

edit: To that end I have made a lot of money as an anonymous sperm donor.

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BlaiseDB 10y ago

For a woman, this is the nuclear option.

redpillbanana 10y ago

I believe that /u/IllimitableMan also calls it the nuclear shit test.

BlaiseDB 10y ago

I am new here so I only speak from personal experience. My experience was that I ended the relationship, and all for the better.

RBuddDwyer 10y ago

When faced with losing her provisioning and support she finally puts out. It's like we talked about a few days ago:

When a woman says "I love you", what she means is "I need you". When a man says "I love you", he means "I am firmly committed to you".

ohsnapt 10y ago

Yeah but does she want to? Is she actually turned on or have you jist manipulated her into sex? If there was nothing to lose would she still fuck u?

RPSigmaStigma 10y ago

Yep. Love flows down, charm (sex, etc) flows up.

Asoka11111 10y ago

I don't understand what this means and I've been seeing it appear more frequently in recent posts.

robonubbins 10y ago

It means a woman wants a man above her smv, and the man needs to feel he is the captain of the relationship and she is along for the ride.

Kill_Your_Ego 10y ago

The hierarchy of love. Women love children. Men love women and children. God loves men, women, and children. Women honor and obey their husbands while men love their wives.

Recently it seems that people are asserting that women should charm their husbands while their husbands love them. Sounds like a good idea.

No ma'am had some good stuff about that on the blog. Also has the book of pook and other good stuff:

no-maam.blogspot.com

Soarinc 10y ago

On behalf of all the lurkers in this community--Thank you for this info!

trpMilo 10y ago

I like the word "respect" more than "charm" in this context.

cariboo_j 10y ago

The reality is much colder; there's not much evidence that God exists (or if he does, that he takes any interest in human affairs). Men are on their own.

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

That wasn't the point. He included god as a reference for meaning, whether people believe it exists or not.

oldredder 10y ago

neoreactionsafe is over-using it, it's getting boring already.

RPSigmaStigma 10y ago

I think it's a great summation. It combines the "women don't love you, they love the way you make them feel" with "men are the true romantics" concepts. I don't see how it's any more over-used than AF/BB, or any other RP concepts. If you're bored with it, maybe you should take a break from reddit for a bit. That's what I do whenever I feel myself getting bored or frustrated with the same stuff on here.

oldredder 10y ago

AF/BB is being over-used too. I don't need to take a break for that: this subreddit needs to take a break from sticking to 1 thing like it's the only thing that matters.

The rest of reddit is already a write-off. Only /r/theredpill and /r/mgtow have any real value, /r/asktrp is dicey.

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

Question on that, if we love the way Redpillers say we do, then why do we practice nexting someone? This is a question posed to me before that I couldn't figure out the answer.

oldredder 10y ago

nexting is what you do with EVERYTHING that's a lost cause.

Car busted so bad you can buy a new/used one cheaper than repair? NEXT.

Woman so fucked up a good sex-life with her can't be recovered, or can't be started? NEXT

Job is full of assholes who will make you work free overtime or fire you, disrespect you to your face, risk your safety for a dollar but you didn't sign up for that? NEXT

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

Right, I get that. But if we can so easily next a chick we "love", we obviously don't love as deep as we say we do. Just playing Devils advocate because I have received this question before and couldn't explain it away.

oldredder 10y ago

You're confused:

men who do love are ignorant of the outcome.

Men who aren't ignorant just erase love as much as possible.

For me I simply can't feel it at all.

We're 2 camps.

RPSigmaStigma 10y ago

Because you can't "fix" or change a woman, so if she shows too many red flags, or if you fuck up and ruin her opinion of you, you're better off nexting. Also, it prevents oneitis so you don't get stuck in a bad relationship feeling like you'll "never find someone else" or whatever.

anjkh 10y ago

Recently a FWB and I were getting into it, and she suddenly dropped a "I can't do this anymore without a compromise". She's approaching the wall, so I understood the message, chuckled at her and got off her. "Compromise? I hear that's a boring town. I'm going to (my town)". Put on shirt, giggle on the way out and hear hamster yelling at my back. Laugh off shit test, call another plate, life goes on.

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[deleted] 10y ago

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anjkh 10y ago

She actually said "compromise" in our native language (spanish), so I guess the word sounds a lot heavier on english speakers. Anyway, same warning sign!

itwasntme19 10y ago

this is why marriage and serious relationships suck. we are meant to have variety. we're only obligated to be the best version of us, and enjoy doing it. women today are very different and it's rare to find a good one to be honest. so if a girl withholds, punish her,replace her. they have to be good enough for you, not the other way around. be demanding of them and they will never try to pull something as retarded like that.

bat_mayn 10y ago

Using sex as a weapon is spousal abuse. There really isn't anything else to say beyond that. The spouse isn't entitled to sex, but if their partner is intentionally withholding it to control or manipulate their spouse, it's abuse.

No man should just accept being manipulated like that, period. Just walk away.

brotherjustincrowe 10y ago

Unfortunately divorce courts and SJW femicunt trial lawyers don't agree.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Yes it's abuse.

Everyone knows this. She knows this. You know this.

But it makes not one jot of difference.

DexterousRichard 10y ago

No, not in my case.

I have not had sex with my wife in years because she is too fat and has been too much of a bitch. That's not abuse, but a natural consequence of her letting herself become massively fat.

Once she gets back in shape and is nice, it will resume. I have had sex with other people instead. Although I haven't told her about it, she sort of knows, at least subconsciously. At various times she's said I should find someone else and she doesn't care, or that it's fine as long as she doesn't know about it. I haven't divorced yet because of the kids and because I hoped she would fix her issues.

Finally after three years of shit testing and hell bitch, she is dieting and working out and taking enough drugs to be nicer most of the time. Once she is fuckable again I think it will do wonders for her mood, but I'm not going to fuck her until I want to fuck her.

kevkos 10y ago

What in the world is the point of being married to this lady?

hikari-boulders 10y ago

Probably it's best for the kids. Can understand it somehow, although I don't have kids of my own.

denmaur 10y ago

It's better than giving her half your stuff and paying child support.

CryptoOrchid 10y ago

You are a patient man. I'm not positive as to why the downvote either. You let things go in the past, but are trying to correct it now.

I hope your situation gets better.

DexterousRichard 10y ago

I actually didn't really let things go, but I didn't know how to fix them in the beginning.

Screaming at her didn't work, and many other things I tried didn't work either. After I found RP, I had a choice. Divorce her or try to change the dynamic. I chose the latter because of my kids. But in the meantime, I fucked many other women. I decided that when things became too bad for the kids or it was clear that she would never improve, I would get a divorce.

See, her ultimate shit test is saying she doesn't care and I should just divorce her. But it's actually bullshit. I had to tell her that I would divorce her if she crossed certain lines (which I meant 100%), but I also wouldn't fuck her or return to a normal relationship until she lost weight and stopped being a bitch. Btw, I control the money, I come and go as I please.

It took a long time, but by being consistent and not showing betaness about sex, she is finally working to lose weight and trying to be reasonable. I don't know if it will work out, but I can always get divorced.

[deleted] 10y ago

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[deleted] 10y ago

i know it's just a joke, but it reflects a western way of thinking that we don't even realize, which leads to a lot of shit like OP quoted.

woman don't keep man in the house nor the dog house. the man keeps himself in whichever, or allows himself to be kept in one. sadly most guys have the "oh dude lol im in the doghouse and sleeping on the couch today i forgot our anniversary"

nah, youre in the bitchhouse, cause you're her bitch.

razikain 10y ago

It might have been Confucius who also said: If you want to keep your husband, keep his stomach full and his balls empty.

StinkyDiaper 10y ago

Confucius also stated: He who go to bed with itchy butt wake up with smelly finger.

-1

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SQQQ 10y ago

well in my case she was withholding sex and i insisted that sex is inseparable part of the relationship. she continued to holdout and we broke up.

happened 2x with 2 diff girls. i wouldn't call em "winning scenarios" but sometimes u need to take a stand n b prepared to next em.

they later regretted their own stupidity, but by then its too little too late.

crazydave1979 10y ago

I actually went through this a few years ago with my current LTR. She was pissed about something stupid.

Her: well maybe you just won't get sex for a month.

me: yes I will

Her: ummmm, well it won't be with me

Me: maybe not, but I'll still get sex this month.

So that threat lasted about 20 minutes

Edit: wow, more questions then I expected.

Just to clarify, seen comments about her calling my "bluff", I was not bluffing. I was a cocky bike rider and I was quite frankly surprised she even went there. she said she would dump me if I cheated and I just laughed and told her to do what she needed to do. After I laughed she didn't speak at all. There has not been another "test" like that ever since.

It saddens me that this even happens to guys, specially you young guys. If a girl has a medical issue that's one thing, but don't let a someone control you by dangling a carrot (pussy) in front of your face. Being single is better then being made into someones bitch. No dread game, no bluffs, make it very clear what you will and will not tolerate and walk away if need be

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ohsnapt 10y ago

Now riddle me this. If someone isnt horny its not like they can just will it to happen??? I think about reading dead bedrooms. It seems like a simple solution..... knowing you can get some decreases desperation.

But if the roles were reversed..... well you cant think your cock hard?

crazydave1979 10y ago

There is a difference between not wanting, and clearly using to manipulate

enkae7317 10y ago

Yep this was basically the exchange that went down between me and her too.

She was basically like "no sex unless this and that blah blah"

I literally laughed in her face and told her I was going to get some regardless.

She never did that again.

Manuel_S 10y ago

Never deny, never admit, agree and amplify, play with it, tell outrageous lies that are obviously lies, look comically sad when she doesn't believe, the works.

NEVER DENY - that sounds like a justification, removes your threat.

NEVER ADMIT - you explained yourself (BAD! STUPID) plus also you give a hard, open target where she can unleash.

Also:

Like with dogs, if you show no fear of consequence - even face off to it - then she becomes afraid to go further. I think its an old and primal reaction. If something is not afraid of you, then it knows more about the situation than you do, and its time for you yourself to be afraid.

thedude122487 10y ago

That story was so incredibly satisfying to read.

laere 10y ago

Abundance mentality destroys shit tests like nukes destroy cities.

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[deleted] 10y ago

/r/relationships and other sources of BP relationship advice bitch a lot about the universal advice of "Is she a bitch? Drop her ass." But that's damn good advice. If a relationship is bringing you more difficulty than rewards, then drop it. No chick is worth that bullshit.

PlanB_pedofile 10y ago

My ltr tried that and even wanted to call my bluff. So I said "I'm hanging out after work with Jenny" "who's jenny?" "A coworker in our group I eat lunch with. She also works weekends down at the bar."

Jenny is a full on lesbian. Met up with her while bartending. Hooked up with some great drinks. Went radio silent and home to 40 missed calls and a sobbing apologetic girlfriend. Pretty much told her that if she wants to be a bitch, she can be a bitch all she wants while I find more pleasant company to be with.

I hated using dread but damn effective.

crazydave1979 10y ago

Well, I wasn't bluffing. Back then I had two bikes, a vette, and was in shape. Honestly I'm surprised she even said it. Her face when I started laughing was priceless

[deleted] 10y ago

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crazydave1979 10y ago

Lol, honestly I never had a game plan back then (probably 5 years ago). I was just a cocky biker that didn't think things through, and basically didn't care. Being single has never scared me.

She pouted for a few minutes, changed the subject, then gave me a bj an hour later.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

I used to get "you're not getting any tonight". Delivered as a pretend-joke in front of other people. I look at the time... say "yeah I will..... bars are still open".

[deleted] 10y ago

Interesting how these fellows want to talk about how disrespected you were... when it's literally the most common shit in the world for a girl in a relationship to say. Makes me wonder how they managed to miss out on that very common experience, and I'm thinking it ain't 'cause they're "so alpha."

Your response is of course perfect. I've used much the same in similar situations (oh no, I must be a beta who let a girl disrespect me!), and it is exactly what she is looking for - not only personal assurance she is not dating a guy without options, but public assurance of that, just like her shit test was a public affirmation that she normally is fucking you, which is a public mark of respect. By her shit test and your response, she has engineered the situation to show everyone around how high value you are, and it does nothing but raise you value in the eyes of onlookers.

Of course, you already knew that.

copralalic 10y ago

She's still disrespecting you in public. I would not be cool with that, personally.

fentrix2 10y ago

It's always better to let it roll off your back in public and then deal with it privately.

[deleted] 10y ago

like the other guy said she's disrespecting you, which is way worse than not sticking your dick in a wet hole. 100000x worse

secondly, i wouldnt have even replied. you're bringing yourself down to her level and debating about something stupid and useless, and making it seem like her threat holds some value to you or even some follow-through. just give a laugh and shun her

but if she said that i'd probably just break up with her. i'm not your joke, bitch, wtf u thinking

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

I understand your viewpoint and I respect it.

But for me... a certain amount of back and forth banter is fine. I do it to them too. I'd rather have this stuff overt than have some weird unspoken threat thing going on.

ReddishTablet 10y ago

Women who use sex a weapon in relationship is one of my worse fears in my mind. It doesn't seem fair in a way but as said if she withholds sex you can withhold time/affection for her.

Would like to keep this in my mind for if it ever comes up for me... Would it also be good to point out that she is using 'sex as a weapon' in the relationship and you won't deal with that shit? Or should you just leave that out of it?

Pretty much you said with added, "If you're using sex as a weapon while we are in a relationship you can get out right now, I do not want a relationship like that."

Taikal 10y ago

It doesn't seem fair in a way but as said if she withholds sex you can withhold time/affection for her.

It is fair actually because it is a shit test and you are supposed to handle it properly. However, I wouldn't engage into "withholding" battle. I would rather make my expectations clear immediately. You want a woman to work for your relationship and never get complacent. If she chooses to leave, you will know that she wasn't into you enough. Better to look elsewhere.

_the_shape_ 10y ago

Which is why marriage is an incredibly risky (some would say downright retarded or suicidal) proposition

HumanSockPuppet 10y ago

No need to point out what she's doing. She already knows how it.

Just demonstrate that you're confident in your ability to get sex elsewhere. When she realizes that her only weapon has been taken from her, she'll shape up quick to win you back.

An important note: once a woman overtly uses the threat of withholding sex, you demote her to a plate forevermore (if she isn't already) and start looking for a replacement.

[deleted] 10y ago

It's the rule: I don't get any sex? Well, no emotional-availability soup for you!

crazydave1979 10y ago

Nah, to complicated. Once you start explaining in detail you draw yourself into an argument, and women are better at arguing. Keep it simple, set a solid boundary. She can figure out if she wants to test it or not

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Would it also be good to point out that she is using 'sex as a weapon' in the relationship and you won't deal with that shit?

No. You'll find your words to be meaningless. Never discuss this with a woman. She will not even agree to what is happening. She'll say "it's normal to not want sex all the time". You cannot negotiate desire (read the sidebar).

She'll pretend she's not using sex as a weapon in order to avoid controntation. She'll just be "not in the mood tonight". Or the next night. You will not win this discussion. At best she'll be calling your bluff.

Once this starts you have to take positive action towards increasing your other options, and getting other options. Plan your escape. Once it starts it just gets worse, and you have to figure this is not a woman you want to be with any more anyway.

It happens. It happens in every LTR. It is why women are not suitable for monogamy.

[deleted]

[deleted] 10y ago

Would it also be good to point out that she is using 'sex as a weapon' in the relationship and you won't deal with that shit?

You cannot negotiate desire: Negotiated desire only ever leads to obligated compliance. This is why her post-negotiation sexual response is often so lackluster and the source of even further frustration on his part. She may be more sexually available to him, but the half-hearted experience is never the same as when they first met when there was no negotiation, just spontaneous desire for each other.

By attempting such a negotiation you're showing her that you don't "just get it", further drying out her drawers. If your goal is to get her to want to fuck you this is dread game time.

ReddishTablet 10y ago

This is a great explanation, I can see how it could end up like that with the negotiation and the lackluster/half hearted experience if she feels forced to meet the guys need.

So running dread should sort of do the same thing but instead on a subconscious level without the negotiation and her feeling forced, but also having the experience a lot better and having that 'spontaneous' desire.

PlanB_pedofile 10y ago

Don't let it be a fear but more of an expectation. Be sure to have abundance and backup plans.

Not getting sex tonight? Go out for some fresh air and show her you have alternatives and they all don't involve her.

OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago

I would instantly downgrade this LTR once she goes here. Is that too harsh?

Taikal 10y ago

Is that too harsh?

Yes, it is. Hers is a shit test and you should simply pass it. But by all means downgrade your relationship if she keeps throwing this kind of shit at you. That wouldn't be worth the hassle because that is when the abundance mentality rescues you.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Is that too harsh?

Not at all. She's prepared to hurt you and destroy the foundation of the relationship, she is not worth being exclusive to.

Monogamy comes with responsibilities. Without those responsibilities she is behaving like FWB. So she becomes FWB.

HumanSockPuppet 10y ago

Bam, you got it.

Bitches are cheap. When one threatens you, she's overplayed her hand.

If bitches really were as strong as they think, they wouldn't try so hard to dress nice, to impress us, or to believe that we're all rapists who want to ravish them without warning.

nothere_ 10y ago

yeah a bit harsh if she's worth the relationship/you're that interested in investing long term into it,think of the other shit tests you'll get on average from then on and if they're all worth dropping a LTR -provided she proves her good worth time and time again

TA_2985_A6E1_9FC3 10y ago

How can you believe for a second that a woman who threatens to deny you sex to get her own way is someone you'd what to spend your life with?

nothere_ 10y ago

A miscalculation in judgment from me

smokingmonkey420 10y ago

What if you had said, "I don't care" instead?

crazydave1979 10y ago

Because I did care. I wasn't going to let someone control me like a puppet with a pussy. I wasn't bluffing, that's exactly what I would've done. My ex from college learned that the hard way

smokingmonkey420 10y ago

Do you think you'd be better off if you didn't care? Or at least not letting her know you care?

femmefatale1 10y ago

Look, you aren't going to convince a woman that you don't care about sex. It just won't work.

The best you can do is convince her you don't need sex from her.

smokingmonkey420 10y ago

Yes, but an overt expression like, "I don't care" is likely to confuse her. I think that's more effective than saying, "I can find someone else" because two can play that game and she's likely to win. Remember, it's the person that cares the least in a relationship who holds the power.

femmefatale1 10y ago

The thing is, she has to have a basic idea what you care about in order to give it to you. Keeping her confused is a bad strategy for an LTR because you can't set boundaries.

two can play that game and she's likely to win

Yes she can get sex elsewhere, but hopefully there are other things you bring to the relationship that are harder to find. And if there isn't, well you shouldn't have upgraded her from plate to LTR status.

crazydave1979 10y ago

I didn't care if she left me. I cared about her trying to control me with sex. I just don't play that game, no man should over something petty. Sex isn't worth being made into a bitch.

[deleted]

[deleted] 10y ago

Your life as a man can become really miserable without basic knowledge such as passing shit tests and dread game.

This. Once you become a Dread/Shit test master, you're life become simpler.

Philhelm 10y ago

The shit test I hate the most is the threats of paying child support.

Me: "I'm displeased with _____." Her: "Well why don't you divorce me and pay child support?"

bitches_be_crazy86 10y ago

Had a fucked up LTR going down. I fucked a bunch of other girls she found out and surprise surprise the moment that happened she was all over me again. That's when I learned that LTRs are just a tool women use to turn you into a pussy.

A hoe in an LTR or marriage can find a dude for fucking in 10 seconds. If you're married you have to support them. If they proove you cheated you're fucked legally so you have to limit yourself to only one supplier of sexual services and we all know that monopolies are good only for monopolists. Anything that comes out of their vaginas is assumed to be yours - you have to proove it that it isn't (and sometimes even that is not enough). You're her slave and she can punish you for pure amusment.

The more options you have the easier it is to score. It's a fucking ([in intended) chain reaction.

JovianTrainWreck 10y ago

"I do think that she was actually withholding sex as a test. Testing what? How strong my love was to not leave her anyway? My assertiveness, to see how much shit I can put up with before I take measures? I don't know"

Haha! Oh you silly rascals, trolling those poor subs like that, how naughty of you

There's no fuckin way that the concept of a shit test was just dangling on the tip of his tongue like that, the motherfucker was ^this close! Somebody unplug this motherfucker already if this is legit!

Linrraba 10y ago

Do you have any follow up to this dude's story? If I were him,after hearing that from her, not only i'd not enjoy sex with her anymore but i'd divorce the shit out of her.

OneTouchHowMuch 10y ago

Yeah, I've insta-nexted 1 or 2 girls the second they did that to me. Something about that attitude repulses me

redpillbanana 10y ago

It’s a pretty recent post in /r/deadbedrooms so I assume the story is ongoing. He said in the discussion that he was heavily leaning towards divorce.

[deleted]

www777com 10y ago

If your woman ever offers sex as an alternative to something that she should be doing, or offers sex to get you to do something, or to manipulate you, YOU HAVE TO TURN IT DOWN.

Example: she says, "How about I just give you sex instead of buying you a present?" The correct answer is, "Fuck that, I want a present."

If you ever get the, "If you do this, I'll have sex with you." You have to turn it down.

Don't ever beg for sex. She should be begging you.

Edit: you should do this from the very beginning of your LTR. She should never think that she can control you with sex.

bigcitytruth 10y ago

You can stop the withholding from spiraling out of control by containing it early.

When it first happens, she says for example, "I'm really tired tonight, let's just go to sleep," do NOT whine or respond like it affected you, and especially do NOT cuddle, kiss or give her any affection at all. Just say, almost cheerfully, "No problem! I'll get myself off here next to you if ya don't mind" and openly fap it while she attempts to sleep. Get really into it. Hell, even bring out a laptop and watch porn while doing it, right next to her in bed. Don't give her any attention, don't look at her or touch her while doing it. 90% of of women will get horny and "jealous" of you not giving her attention and she'll either help you finish or jump on top of you. If you do this EVERY time she denies sex, the behavior will eventually subside and she'll rarely do try it again. If she falls into the 10% camp and actually falls asleep, that's your cue to leave her place in the middle of the night. She's nexted.

ErasmusOrgasmus 10y ago

Simple, yet brilliant. Love it. I actually wish I'd done this to my plate when I went round to hers and she told me we couldn't have sex because she had cystitis. 'Alright cool, you don't mind if I help myself out do you?' and unzip immediately without waiting for a reply.

If she falls into the 10% camp and actually falls asleep, that's your cue to leave her place in the middle of the night

...and go to a bar with your best pair of shoes and a wallet full of rubbers.

bigcitytruth 10y ago

In a medical situation like that, she'll usually give you head if you ramp up the sexual atmosphere. Put on the porn loud.

ErasmusOrgasmus 10y ago

I got a handjob so it wasn't a complete fail but I wish I'd used a comeback I later read on this sub.

Her: We can't have sex because period / medical reason
Me: Do you also have a throat infection and the shits?
Her: ...No, why..?

There really is no excuse for the female mindset of 'my vagina is out of action therefore no sexual acts whatsoever will occur.'

dr_warlock 10y ago

What men don't seem to understand in the haze of infatuation is when a women says "I do", it means, "I do... right now". Any moment after that is subject to Briffault's Law. You cannot negotiate desire, and you cannot contract biological impulses.

brotherjustincrowe 10y ago

If she's pulling shit like this, it's her who's failed. Hard next. No man should have to put up with this kind of manipulative bullshit.

Unless you married her, in which case you already failed a major shit test as it is.

BluepillProfessor 10y ago

Men who go through this sort of misery eventually start to come to TRP conclusions after they've suffered enough abuse.

Or they blow their brains out. Or they become emotionally neutered like my father and nothing bothers them. Or they live lives of pain and desperation. Sometimes all three.

foldpak111 10y ago

You don't want to have sex with me? I can walk out the door and approach the first 20 attractive women I see, ONE OF THEM WILL.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Phrase it more carefree and less effort.

"No problem... someone else will"

foldpak111 10y ago

I wouldn't even say that, I would just walk out and go do it. That's just my inner dialogue and I decided to share it with you guys hashtag smiley face

-2

copenhannah 10y ago

I'm sure 20 women will just fall to their knees with that can-do fuck-you attitude. Good luck with that mate.

-32

robonubbins 10y ago

Reading comprehension is important. Work on yours.

[deleted]

RBuddDwyer 10y ago

In the right place at the right time, an literally just walk up to 30 or so different decent looking women and say nothing but, "hey, wanna fuck?" One of them will say yes.

NicCageForPresident 10y ago

That is very true, except for the "hey wanna fuck" part.

Ya might get a girl to say "yes", but she's not gonna fuck you.

That said if you approach 30 women, tell them you think they're attractive and talk to them for 5 minutes, at least one of them will be down to come home with you (providing you live nearby and are at least a 7/10)

RBuddDwyer 10y ago

You need solid confidence and some decent looks and clothing, but nothing spectacular. Just watch am those spring break shows.

foldpak111 10y ago

I'm not so sure about stating it that bluntly. Women are terrified of being viewed as sluts. Actually get to know her and have so much fun that she's begging for it.

-1

RBuddDwyer 10y ago

You ever seen Girls Gone Wild?

absolucion 10y ago

One of my favorite double-standards in LTRs: you have to respect a woman's wish not to have sex with you but she doesn't have to respect your need to find sexual satisfaction.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

she doesn't have to respect your need to find sexual satisfaction.

What amazes me is how many women try to pretend that a sexless relationship is a relationship. Never allow this pretense to exist even for a day.

Overkillengine 10y ago

A good analogy I read once here is that one should treat sex in the context of a relationship in a manner like unto a woman writing her name on a test paper- she can have all the answers on the test itself right, but without a name on the paper...no credit.

[deleted] 10y ago

[deleted]

DRMMR76 10y ago

You were trained not to see it by movies, TV, teachers, and likely with an absence of parental teaching to steer you in the right direction.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Women don't want a man for whom things are scarce, this applies to wealth, to options, to sexual access. Why are people so surprised?

The surprise is that men expect women to behave differently after they are married. The agreement is "foresaking all others" and "be there for each other". Men honour that. Women see his scarcity mindset and are turned off by it and/or use it to their advantage.

It's a classic bait-and-switch. I don't get why men fall for it so often.

redpillbanana 10y ago

Women don't want a man for whom things are scarce, this applies to wealth, to options, to sexual access.

This is a key concept in sexual selection, both in the animal kingdom and in humans.

I wrote this in another reply:

Conspicuous wealth and conspicuous muscles are both forms of excess resources that signal sexual fitness.

http://www.economist.com/node/14302009

The main characteristic of sexually selected features is that they are expensive to maintain. Since, whether competing or attracting, only the best will do, resources get piled into them, almost regardless of the consequences. In a study just published in Evolution and Human Behavior, Dr Lassek and Dr Gaulin show that this crucial characteristic is true for men's muscles.

oldredder 10y ago

Excessive fitness is the best peacocking there is, though hat-tip to Mystery for exploiting other peacocking when it was new. Now it's much less novel its effect is a little diluted.

mobius_stripped 10y ago

I think my wife is currently doing this to me, withholding sex. Background: We had a blow out two months ago and the sex dried up which led me to here and MRP. Prior to TRP, she told me to my face that she isn't withholding sex from me as punishment, she just doesn't feel like it. It made sense, she's still reeling from our fight and oh BTW, pregnant and, then, in her first trimester. Understandable-- morning sickness, soreness, etc.

  Now, she's well into her second trimester (horny phase for most women) and I was practicing some amused mastery, "So now that you're in your second trimester, are you more horny?"
The look on her face was like the cat that ate the canary. She sheepishly said, "Nope, not at all." My wife hasn't ever lied to me that I knew of before this point (she probably does, yeah, yeah, AWALT) but I could tell she was full of shit. I didn't press it, I found out her "tell" (think poker, movie Rounders) when she lies and thought that was more important.

  What I had suspected is she started masterbating again. I was out of town for a bit and her mother stayed with her. When her mother comes in town she hides her sex toy that's stored in her nightstand. When I came back her mother left had left a day prior to me arriving, so I looked and it was still there. My hamster just said, "maybe she forgot to hide it." I needed some hard evidence, so I took it upon myself to position it so if she did use it, I would know.

  So since I'm always around at night, she doesn't have the opportunity to jerk off but Saturday I was away all day. When I got back I checked the drawer. It was so obvious she used it. Like it was almost thrown haphhazardly back in from a fit of passion.

  Yep, she's withholding sex. My hamster says maybe she's getting more tingles now that I've started implementing RP/MRP. I'm still new and I have much to learn and think I'm just getting out of the anger phase of unplugging. Let's hope so, this might be a step in the right direction.

[deleted] 10y ago

BluepillProfessor 10y ago

I am impressed but why not take charge? Tell her we are putting the past behind us. Our baby deserves better. Blah, Blah. Then initiate hard and fuck her good. The time for words is already passed.

BTW: I encourage my wife to use the Hitachi wand. Female physiology is not the release and sudden return to not being horny that men experience. If she buzzed off, she should be even easier to arouse later.

DRMMR76 10y ago

she isn't withholding sex from me as punishment, she just doesn't feel like it

This fails the Brad Pitt test. It's an obvious lie. What she meant was "I don't feel like it...with you".

mobius_stripped 10y ago

Yeah, I realize this now. That was pre-RP and I was pretty much the Stevie Wonder of the Matrix back then.

DRMMR76 10y ago

Gotcha, didn't mean to lecture you.

truchisoft 10y ago

Why not? thats why we are all here.

DRMMR76 10y ago

Giving instruction to those who need it but may not want it is what teachers and parents do to children. Adult men interact as equals and do no scold unbidden.

truchisoft 10y ago

That's exactly the problem, we are teachers of men (I'm far from being the perfect alpha, but I am training friends in RP lore and boy are they like little children sometimes)

[deleted] 10y ago

[--removed--]

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

thats why they cry at work.

Those are not real tears. They can be screaming and crying one second and happy as a lark the next.

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

I was an Trainer at an extremely busy restaurant for many years. One thing I can say is some of thoae tears are more real than others. Perhaps it was a built in defense mechanism to soften us males in charge, but I completely believe most of them were real.

ubiety 10y ago

To give credence to your statement, a female friend of mine did this exact thing. She was crying and pouty with her boyfriend trying to manipulate him into getting what she wants (diamond earrings). She worked herself up so fast I was amazed at her acting ability (this happened over the phone).

When we left to get food together, she looked perfectly fine. I called her out on it, but she completely denied it, said I "didn't know how she was feeling." Right. If she was actually upset, she wouldn't have pulled so much of a fuss and recover just as quickly.

Illustrates her manipulative nature, complete denial of that nature, and the extent she would go to cover her actions to "save face" and get what she wants. Helped me separate what she says from what she does real quickly.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

I saw this once with an ex... screaming and crying at me for all the world as if she was genuinely upset. Her friend rang the bell and she laughed and hopped and skipped away like the world was full of rainbows and icecream.

Not only can you not trust their words, you can't trust that their feelings are real either.

And on a nicer but similar note: a more rational ex explained how she had to be with a strong man because she just didn't like who she turned into when she was with a weak one. ie she just couldn't help being a horrible person when given the opportunity, and it's her man's fault for letting that happen. very honest but also staggering when you think about it.

kevkos 10y ago

And then you have a relationship based on deceit and game playing. Why would you do that to yourself unless your self esteem was rock bottom? If that's the case, women aren't going to help you, you need to start improving yourself first.

[deleted] 10y ago

[--removed--]

kevkos 10y ago

Then leave her. No point in playing games, it makes everyone involved miserable.

Gyissan 10y ago

Exactly. Playing mind games are what women do.

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

It's not a mind game, if she is willing not to give sex, he is willing to find it.

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

You DO know that TRP is amoral right? Concern over cheating is for the SJW.

Postboned 10y ago

I disagree about concern over cheating being for SJW. TRP, or in this case, dread game, is not about cheating. It is about planting a thought into a woman's head that if she doesn't show you enough affection, some other woman will. Mind games =/= Adultery. This is basically saying "well I'll just find sex somewhere else" without actually doing it. Or you can do it. Whatever.

If you cheat on your loved one, then yeah you're kind of a scumbag (at least to me). Like I said, this isn't cheating: it is just mindfuck. If you hate it.. good job, you're a human. But people will use it because it works.

Moldy_Gecko 10y ago

Still, TRP is amoral. Your personal views are yours. I actually spun plates when I first learned of TRP (while being married) and realized that wasn't the best for me.

2akurate 10y ago

That test wouldn't work at all with me. Even when I love a girl deeply I remain on some level disconnected, I'm not jealous because I have supreme confidence in her attraction to me. I had this girl that would sometimes dance with other guys in a club when we had a small fight and I would see in her mannerisms that she was only doing it to get back at me. When she saw I was laughing and wholy unaffected she would come back like a kitten. I could see through her psychology as an adult can see through an 8 year old child's mind.

Men have to be older than their partners because they need those extra years of emotional game experience, we arn't used to the craftyness of woman and the games they play. But if you are 4 years older than your girl you will feel in control as you are wiser and more mature than her.

DRMMR76 10y ago

Note that she knew exactly how unhappy he was with the lack of sex and yet she refused to change until he passed her test.

This is another reason to never get married. Forget the divorce rape, lawyers, alimony, child support, etc.

Her vows are a lie. Whoever you already married, are thinking about marrying, or that "unicorn" you haven't even met yet who you'll end up thinking is different. Her vows were or will be lies. She will knowingly and deliberately subject you to anguish, misery, and stress in order to achieve some made up goal in her head. It doesn't matter what that goal is, how important it really is, or even how easily you can pass the test. The only fact you really need to concern yourself with is that she did or will pledge to not do that and yet does or will do it anyways. Because her vows are a lie.

If they have no moral problem constantly putting a man through pain in some never ending quest to ask "how can I depend on you to be there for me?" I have no moral problem with answering "I won't be. You don't deserve it.". Some of you might think that because they are genetically disposed to seek out the strongest mate, that shit testing is just fine and dandy and that our only issue with it should be passing. That we're all just apes following our ape brains and that things like ethics, morals, right and wrong are all pointless contrivances. Well I disagree. Shit testing, especially in the context of marriage, can very often be downright unethical, cruel, and even evil. The shit testing described in OP's post falls into this category. What if the husband would have fallen into depression and killed himself? What of her vows? What of all the so-called love she claimed she had for him? She tortured him. Plain and simple. She knowingly induced pain with callous and wanton disregard for him in any way, in complete opposition to her vows and her own so-called humanity. That's wrong. There is a such thing as right and wrong, and what she did was wrong. Period.

The woman who deserves marriage is the woman who can match your ethics with ethics of her own. Meaning the woman who deserves marriage is the woman who doesn't shit test. And as we all know, that woman is a make believe creature known as a unicorn. Don't get married.

158

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

Shit testing, especially in the context of marriage, can very often be downright unethical, cruel, and even evil.

Yes. This. It's one thing to shit test a guy you don't know in a bar... but shit testing your so-called one-true-love? It's just a power trip at someone else's expense. I've been on the receiving end of this shit (mercifully not married) and ended the relationship soon after because I just couldn't get my head around doing this to someone you say you care about.

Women wilfully do not understand they are not the only vagina in town. This needs to be spelled out to them on a regular basis in a way that they feel.

Don't get married

Marriage is immoral. The nature of women is unsuitable for marriage.

Steve_Wiener 10y ago

Great comment.

I think many people on TRP or the manosphere in general go a little too far with the evo psychology and use it as an excuse for bullshit.

RealRational 10y ago

This exactly! Very well said!

I was thinking, if OP had posted here, I would hope to see this as the top comment. Except targeted specifically at that guy telling him to start preparing for divorce, shielded bank accounts, moving assets into friends names, spinning plates. What she did broke the vows, and therefore ended the marriage. Now it's just a matter of making it official.

smokingmonkey420 10y ago

There is no such thing as right and wrong.

redpillbanana 10y ago

Well said.

This is another reason to never get married. Forget the divorce rape, lawyers, alimony, child support, etc.

It's all part of the big equation. The legal punishments for divorce remove any sort of recourse that a man might have when his wife breaks her vows - while at the same time rewarding women for divorcing their husbands (with "cash and prizes" as Dalrock always put it).

This leads to a situation where, if you're legally married, you suddenly have a woman in your house that can do almost anything she feels like, and if you disagree, you lose half your salary and/or go to prison.

buttholette 10y ago

Sad but true. Our culture has destroyed marriage... No accountability for women

DRMMR76 10y ago

Agreed. I was simply saying one can forget about those things for a moment, put them on the proverbial shelf so to speak. We tend to get caught up in those practical issues regarding marriage and divorce (for good reason. They can destroy your life) but I was pointing out that there are some more cerebral reasons to avoid marriage that are wholly separate from divorce rape and the like and wanted to point out that even totally ignoring those practical reasons, one still has plenty of philosophical reasons to avoid marriage.

j-coordinate 10y ago

She can shit test me by witholding sex,it'll just get my back up and ill just get it somewhere else.best way to drive a maj into the arms of another woman.plenty willing to put out :)

612magxl 10y ago

Great post, unfortunately I only have 1 unvote to give.

[deleted] 10y ago

[deleted]

Chikinhok 10y ago

you can have family without marriage

Mutch 10y ago

Holy shit you are one broken and run down man. Hope shit improves for you!

-16

BluepillProfessor 10y ago

She will knowingly and deliberately subject you to anguish, misery, and stress in order to achieve some made up goal in her head.

Regarding the bolded claim, I think you assume and assign more introspection to women than the evidence warrants.

Shit testing, especially in the context of marriage, can very often be downright unethical, cruel, and even evil.

I agree with this qualifier. Very often for sure.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

I think you assume and assign more introspection to women than the evidence warrants.

She knows she does it.

She does it knowing what she is doing.

She does it knowing the effect it has.

I've talked to women after passing and failing their shit tests about what they said or did. They always know exactly what they are doing, and they know exactly the effect it has.

Do not credit them with a lack of introspection. They know all the facts. They know what they do. They don't know why they do it, but they sure as hell know what they are doing.

buttholette 10y ago

They don't know why they do it, but they sure as hell know what they are doing.

This is true. As hard as it is for me to admit it, I know from personal experience. Don't believe the hamster! It's just the front a woman puts up.

RPSigmaStigma 10y ago

So much this. Shit testing is an important thing early in a relationship, but a quality woman will cut back on it as you continue to prove yourself. A woman who constantly shit tests you no matter how long you've been together or how many you pass, is a broken woman with a short term emotional memory. A woman like that is a validation black hole. And the unfortunate reality for us in the modern western world is that the vast majority of women are like that. We've created whole generations of narcissistic women who have no conscience or empathy.

couchpotatocarl 10y ago

Most experienced girls shit test you throughout but will settle for what they think is a beta. Inexperienced girls shit tests die down pretty quick if you passed the others but if they settle for a beta, they completely destroy the guy if they are stuck with him. This is a rule from what I've noticed.

Experienced girls learn they can't tie down #1 with sex and settle for #2+ with resignation. If they actually tie down an alpha, the shit test throughout the entire relationship because of relationship disasters with previous alphas.

Inexperienced girls still think they have a shot with #1 offering their sex, and resent their beta partner. All inexperienced girls I've known have one guy they've been pining over for yeeears and if she's settling for beta the running joke in her social circle is her crush on Mr. Alpha. If an inexperienced girl ties down an alpha however, barely any shit tests. They are not as insecure (pretty sure the cc takes a lot out of a girls soul), don't have previous baggage, and don't need to shit test constantly for alpha affirmation.

Inexperienced girls do mistake beta for alpha a lot more frequently though. Or maybe they don't have as jaded of standards.

tldr: CCrider marries alpha= shit tests, marries beta=shit tests (higher standards for alpha)

Virgin marries alpha=less shit tests, marries beta=more shit tests

BluepillProfessor 10y ago

if they settle for a beta, they completely destroy the guy if they are stuck with him.

It is even worse than that. They take a mostly Alpha guy and commit to one thing- doing everything in their power to make the guy Beta. THEN they destroy them.

[deleted] 10y ago

a guy who is actually alpha won't get destroyed by something that trivial. What they do is take guys who are fronting, and then break them down and let their inner bitchassness come out.

but if they find a guy who is actually alpha, they usually just commit to following him. everything they want to do is to please him and make him happy with her, and she actually will monitor what she does to not upset him and get herself rejected.

if they do try to just 'break down' a guy who is actually alpha, not only will it not really work, but she'll start to lose his attraction to her, and thereby lowering her perceived self-worth, which will stop her behavior

BluepillProfessor 10y ago

This doesn't happen overnight. The betafication process of marriage takes years and women will patiently wait it out in order to strike at your weakest moment. Very few men are "Alpha" enough to withstand the drip-drip-drip of betafication. She will strike at the lowest moments. When your mother dies. When the first and the second baby comes. Each moment she will probe and search for weakness and without moral support, almost no man is strong enough.

zulhadm 10y ago

But what if I want kids? Should I just adopt?

[deleted] 10y ago

If you find a girl who you could see yourself having kids with, then you're already set. Marriage would only complicate things.

HardBounce 10y ago

Get a surrogate mother in a man friendly country to provide your kid

RealRational 10y ago

I agree with Tom. But that advice is given in this sub because it's a GREAT rule of thumb. If you can't figure out how and exactly why marriage is dangerous you should never attempt it. But if nothing else, let that constant reminder of "don't get married" be a flashing warning light reminding you to take it so slow it feels like you aren't moving at all.

Frankly, if you can't establish a frame with a woman that shit tests will not be tolerated, she should never be anything more than a plate. It needs to be understood, ONE shit test, and you're gone bitch. You can't accomplish this with words, and so it cannot be taught with words.

Which is why the words we give you are "Do not get married".

magus678 10y ago

I suspect this wiIl be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's a great idea.

There are a lot of kids already out there who could use a good man in their life.

I will also say though, it will probably be tough to adopt as a single man.

kranos33 10y ago

You become a genetic dead end though.

vzhu 10y ago

Only if you don't have siblings.

TomSachs 10y ago

Live your own life and come to your own conclusions about marriage. Don't decide against or for something based off of some guys on the internets opinion. Educate yourself about the realities of marriage and then see if that is something you believe you can deal with. It isn't as black and white as it is made out to be on this.

jdoe5 10y ago

This will be an unpopular opinion but I think there's a lot of fear mongering on here about marriage. If things like having kids, being able to file jointly, etc. etc. are worth the potential risks of marriage to you, then it could work great for you.

buttholette 10y ago

There may also be more than a handful of religious guys reading this... and as we all probably are aware, marriage is an arrangement thumbsed-up by God when done properly

[deleted]

max_peenor 10y ago

You don't actually have to marry a woman to get her pregnant.

HardBounce 10y ago

I really need to move away from California. I can't even live with a women with out establishing a common law marriage

max_peenor 10y ago

As far as I know, CA doesn't recognize common law marriage unless it was formed under the laws while IN another state. To become married in CA, you have to go through the formal legal process.

zulhadm 10y ago

Of course. But that's not the best circumstance to raise children.

-6

flyingwolf 10y ago

In what way? My wife and I have been together for 15 years, have 3 kids, we are stable etc. In what way is this not a good circumstance?

Dwightlicksbuttholes 10y ago

Why? What's the difference if they just aren't legally married?

RPSigmaStigma 10y ago

Why not? How is it any different for the kid? What does that piece of paper do for him/her?

zulhadm 10y ago

Saves them from embarrassment. Also makes it seem like the parents aren't committed to each other.

-7

[deleted] 10y ago

saves them from embarassment? this isn't the 60's where you need to pretend mom is your sister and grandma is your mom.

[deleted] 10y ago

I'm a bastard child and I've been a lot of places and nobodies ever given a fuck about it. Maybe if I was looking to marry into Chinese aristocracy it could be an issue.

RPSigmaStigma 10y ago

I don't know how old you are or where you grew up, but most of the kids i knew in school were being raised by single mothers. I was the weird one with two married parents.

FattestRabbit 10y ago

Just reinforcing this; I too was raised by a single mom. I don't think it's any more embarrassing than having your parents go through a divorce, which is fairly typical anyway. Who cares if your parents aren't married?

DexterousRichard 10y ago

Not if you can have your own. Evolution depends on survival of the fittest. If you have any confidence that you are a valuable person with good physical and mental qualities, you should try to pass them on. If not (eg you're an idiot or have genetic diseases), sure, remove them from the gene pool.

[deleted]

Eppur_Si_Muove_ 10y ago

I can understand abundance mentality and dread game if you are just spinning plates but I don't see how it works if you are in a monogamous relationship or marriage.

Can someone explain how this would work in that setting? I feel like it could give her grounds for divorce if you cheat on her. She would just say: "Well HE cheated on ME, your honor!"

Same for a LTR, she'd make you look like an asshole if you cheated on her (and I believe it does make you an asshole if you cheat on someone in a monogamous relationship).

I'm not arguing with what's being said here, I'm just asking for examples and an explanation as to why it works.

theultmatecad 10y ago

The key is letting her know that your commitment depends on how well she pleases you.

Women will become afraid and attracted to a man who doesnt need them

ProductivityMonster 10y ago

you don't just go and cheat. You tell her in no uncertain terms that you will dump her if she withholds sex and you follow through on it. Dread game is always being ready to leave. Many people on this sub don't recommend marriage because your dread game is limited...it's time consuming/expensive/etc. to get a divorce so you really have limited control over a woman behaving badly. Women also get better financial deals in divorce in general so there's a perverse incentive for a woman to behave badly and initiate a divorce.

KyfhoMyoba 10y ago

Flirting, learning and practicing Game will do the job in almost all cases, and if they don't, then you are set up for post-divorce sex.

When she sees that you've got 3 lined up, all younger/lighter/hotter/tighter, waiting eagerly to suck your dick, the [attraction] switch flips hard.

[deleted] 10y ago

[deleted]

KyfhoMyoba 10y ago

Most states in the USA have no fault divorce.

ALL states in the US have a no fault divorce option.

oldredder 10y ago

How it works is you be clear you will get sex even with a ring on your finger, and club sluts will seek you out because you have a ring on your finger, so you don't have to put up with this nonsense.

Being married to just one then being denied sex is exploitation and a husband has every right to say so word for word then go get sex somewhere else.

This works so well I'm tempted to get a wedding band JUST to fuck girls who want to fuck a married man, without actually having a wife.

DexterousRichard 10y ago

If you don't have a wedding ring, how do you know it works well? I personally haven't run into chicks who actively want to fuck a married man, just those who hamster around it...

oldredder 10y ago

watching other married men get picked up and nailing pussy because of the ring, or turning it down because of wanting to stick with the wife.

BrunoOh 10y ago

All preselection and the taboo.

havelbrandybuck 10y ago

Silence and withholding attention is a greater tool than withholded sex.

theultmatecad 10y ago

So true. So man blue men are afraid to pull back because they fear angering the woman.

Nothing turns her on like a man she cant control

30303030303030 10y ago

Her explanation made me feel cold and empty inside: She wanted to test how far she could go.

women and children have that in common

In an exclusive LTR, withholding sex is a very serious shit test.

If it's only an ltr then it's not a problem, you drop her like a bad habit and that's that. Unless you are beta, then you suffer. In marriage however, different story. I don't remember when it changed, but back in the day, in marriage, there was no possibility to say no to a husband, you couldn't rape your wife. Nobody here is willing to rape women but when women knew that was not an option, they weren't using it as a leverage.

That changed though and they know they can control us withholding sex. Women, on average, don't need sex as much as we do.

oldredder 10y ago

If that were true women wouldn't be fucking other men behind the husband's back but they are.

30303030303030 10y ago

"on average"

Are you really claiming that women and men have the same libidos?

oldredder 10y ago

No, I'm saying women's libido is usually higher by a long shot. The exception is if she's getting all the provider-stuff she wants without having to give up the sex. Then her sex drive may crash but will revive itself upon finding the next non-provider male who probably has a big dick and decently fit.

bitches_be_crazy86 10y ago

There's much for you to learn. Learn shit, go out there and use them as cumbuckets. That will teach you a thing or two. An average woman is way kinkier and hornier than an average guy.

BrunoOh 10y ago

Difference is that the guy is horny for the average woman, but the woman is only horny for the alpha.

30303030303030 10y ago

Learn what?

An average woman is way kinkier and hornier than an average guy.

Hornier? No. Why men start majority of sexual encounters? And by majority I mean 90%+.

Kinkier. Yeah, kind of. There are more things you can do to a woman so spectrum is bigger. They give it only to the right man though.

bitches_be_crazy86 10y ago

Hornier, but not for average guys. Just the top 10%.

Women start encounters just as eagerly. You'll get there

Jamtastic1 10y ago

Lack of sex is actually one of the reasons I am divorcing my wife. There are other factors at play, but I just couldn't figure out how to beat her shit test (if this is actually what it is).

kevkos 10y ago

Congratulations on your divorce!

iamaguythrowaway 10y ago

How much alimony is she getting though?

Jamtastic1 10y ago

None. There is a lot of good info here, but also a lot of misconception and butthurt. Alimony isn't always awarded in a divorce.

[deleted]

Roughknot 10y ago

I was in a similar place as the poster from /r/deadbedrooms

After lurking deadbedrooms for a long time I was going to end the marriage and was sifting through deadbedrooms putting together an exit plan when I found TRP. The turnaround was 180.

By being that close to the brink made it very easy to take the pill. To this day I still have my exit plan and keep working on it because I think I'll need it. However this abundance mentality of walking at a time that suits me is probably the only thing generating desire. For clarification I've told her if I'm not happy end the marriage but I have told her that I have an exit plan.

She has the Sword of Damocles hanging over her head now after I had it hanging it over mine for so long living in fear of her emotions.

oldredder 10y ago

I am thankful this has never happened to me. Only 1 woman ever "withheld sex" as LMR and I won't hold it against her. I cut all contact, no need to waste my time, but I get her situation. Her ASD is super-strong in a way normal women won't have. She literally was schizophrenic and would hear voices all day every day telling her she's bad and wrong and about everything, not just sex. Oh well. Fucked her once but it wasn't so good. Was hoping for a good time for 2nds but it wasn't to be.

Tarnsman4Life 10y ago

Never stay with a woman who refuses you sex; unless you just split her cunt in two the previous night she had better be willing to meet your needs if she wants to maintain an LTR. My main plate is going through some "Hormonal" issues; she doesn't like taking the D when shes spotting or bleeding. But you know what? She's never even questioned sucking me off when things like that come up.

A woman who withholds sex from you because she can is not worth your time. A woman who uses denial sex as some kind of a punishment should be kicked out of your bed. I make it very clear; I am a man, a sexual being and I expect sexual release in a relationship. If your not willing to fulfill that as your part of the relationship bargain your not worth my time.

af505 10y ago

I've dealt with shit test like this in years past. It was during a time when I had let myself go. Getting chunky, or not being as socially active, or just not being as good of a provider. I'm TRP all the way, but I think that this type of shit test is the females way of waking you up before she has to finally walk out. It's like a final grace period before the end.

Because God knows that since I got my physique together, engaged socially, and moved my career forward, I have never dealt with these type of shit tests again.

ErasmusOrgasmus 10y ago

Because God knows that since I got my physique together, engaged socially, and moved my career forward, I have never dealt with these type of shit tests again

Because you inadvertently initiated dread game.

makethemsayayy 10y ago

It's so funny to me how people on this dumb ass site think OH MY GOD RED PILL SO LAME! Meanwhile everything we say is true. But that's what happens in a feminized society, being a goddamn, unfiltered man is a demonized thing, without being understood. It's like being a fucking Jew in Nazi Germany. No critical thought, just pure hatred without understanding. The masses are fucking retarded. They think they're so smart and advanced, too. It's laughable.

[deleted] 10y ago

Alternative medicine that works is still medicine.

theDarkAngle 10y ago

I think its different than simple hate. It is an intense loathing for any attempts by men to decode female behavior and share the findings with other men. Women have always exploited the fact that men worship them despite not understanding why they do and say the things they do.

Because men don't worship women if they understand how they really are. With the flaws revealed, women are not magical creatures. They are just people with vaginas, every bit as flawed as men, though in strikingly different ways.

foldpak111 10y ago

I was in the car with my father and his girlfriend (he's ultimate beta and I'm scared for him) and talked about how women send the most sexual signals to other guys when in an LTR. They got livid (the more you offend people, the more true it is, otherwise they wouldn't get offended) with me and went on this hilarious typical BP spiel about how NAWALT and you can't understand everyone and everyone is different.

"you do know we're animals, right. That's like me saying all lions like to eat gazelle and you getting upset then going on a spiel how nobody understands lions. Some eat grass, because some just aren't like that," then they got even more mad because social conditioning brainwashing people into believing that humans are this superior entity.

I then suggested they watch National Geographic's 'going ape', and Discovery channels 'science of sex appeal'. They said that the scientists are jaded and wouldn't watch it. Like, they actually believe what they believe. Like dude, they believe that. wtf.

It's a very, very scary realization when people disregard science when it comes to the nature of human beings. My conclusion is that people are extremely insecure and freak out when they see someone that doesn't live within the safety of the herd and challenges them to think beyond simplistic points. Which is not possible because most people eat cheetos and beer, and when you eat cheetos and beer you're like blehhhhhhh

NeoreactionSafe 10y ago

Here's a tip...

If you are by default a person who has things that capture your interest then you are mostly busy doing what you want to do anyway.

Women Charm to gain sex access and emotional access (Love) from a man they see as above her.

In pretty much every relationship I was ever in the women were always wanting sex because they wanted access. (they felt lonely)

The Beta mistake is in wanting sex as a type of "approval".

Sex is a reward given to a woman who demonstrates Charm.

No Charm, No Sex.

Don't reward bad behaviors.

Sex validates a woman as being desirable. If she isn't Charming you shouldn't even be thinking about having sex with her. It should actually turn you off.

Betas seem to get erotic excitement by upside down situations.

mobius_stripped 10y ago

It should actually turn you off.

  So much this. Before unplugging, I was so hard up to bang my wife and when she denied, I would pout. Since RP, One of the tips of a sexless marriage was to initiate every night. Well she was such a raging cunthammer that I was just mentally turned off to having sex.

NeoreactionSafe 10y ago

Men need Game to get that Charm out of women.

Gotta be a Player if you want women eager for sex.

(and I'm a white guy saying this)

The Love / Charm dynamic is the ideal and most will not attain it, so I'm not trying to create unrealistic expectations. We live in a world of low quality women that make no attempt to have Game and be Charming. The Feminists are telling women to act like men and have no Charm.

/r/RedPillWomen is our "opposite / complimentary" sub where women learn Game. (Charm)

Game gives benefits to either side, but ironically the best relationships are with two people with high levels of Game. It's natures version of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."

Patriarchy actually makes Game integrated into the culture. So in a Patriarchy things are easier because correct behavior is the default. We literally must "reinvent the wheel" to have successful relationships today. Conforming to Feminism is a kind of death sentence. Red Pill represents life.

southpawshuffle 10y ago

Needing clarification: an accepted tactic in a sexless relationship is to initiate every now night? Totally have not heard that before.

mobius_stripped 10y ago

It's part of married red pill, maybe someone other than a newbie like me can explain it better. Essentially you initiate sex, she rejects you and then you go do something else like it doesn't bother you. i.e. Outcome Independence for you and you don't come off as a begging, whiny butthurt beta. The leaving to do something else, well typically what's recommended is to leave the house without saying anything and let her hamster wheels spin.

JoeWim 10y ago

short of threatening you/herself/others with harm

How can you deal with a shit test like this? It seems like nexting and walking away could increase the problem.

DesertFox1986 10y ago

I think one of the best things for a man is to have control over his sex drive. Its our biggest weakness and can get us into a lot of trouble. Learn to say no once in a while. When that sloot at the bar wants to fuck, and your dick is saying yes but your better judgment says not to, then listen to your better judgment. If your wife turns you down once in a while, act like its no big deal and learn to say no to her if you're not in the mood. Just learn to have some control over your sex drive and get the upper hand with the women you're with. If you go without for a little while, big deal, your dignity and self control and your future is worth more than a nut.

MattyAnon Admin 10y ago

I kind of agree with you, but I think you're talking theoretically rather than from real life experience.

DesertFox1986 10y ago

Nope, I am speaking from real life experience. My horniness has gotten me into trouble before.

demetrios3 10y ago

If she's withholding sex there's a good chance she's getting somewhere else.

bluedrygrass 10y ago

The matter is important, crucial even, and the thread started good, but you omitted the most important piece: how to pass such kind of shit test.

All that your thread says without it, is basically "this shit test is important, someone managed to pass it threatening divorce".

Since i don't think you think the only way to pass this shit test is constantly threatening divorce, put some example or toughts on other ways. I think most of us already know what those other ways are, but without writting it, the thread is useless.

wisdom_is 10y ago

That is so harsh to know that women will intentionally make a man suffer in that way while proclaiming they love em. Makes me view men that also manipulate women in a positive light.

[deleted]

marxistbacon 10y ago

The poor husband wrote:

Her explanation made me feel cold and empty inside:

He's starting to get it, but if only he knew how deep the rabbit-hole goes...

beerthroway 10y ago

My assertiveness, to see how much shit I can put up with before I take measures?

This is an important lesson to learn as a man, specifically when leading others.

If you're willing to put up with a lot, you're actually seen as weaker than a man who calmly knows his boundaries and has consequences already in place for when those boundaries are pushed. You have to decide beforehand what the consequence is going to be when those around you push on a certain boundary. These boundaries don't have to be context specific. It can be as simple as understanding how you're going to react to a feeling.

A non-context specific example: if you catch yourself feeling like those around aren't pulling their weight, have a consequence. Are you going to tell them what they need to do? Are you just going to stop and let them see you stop so they react and compensate? You don't have to know exactly what you're going to do, but I'd you have a clear boundary set beforehand (the boundary here is that you refuse to let others take advantage of you) then you can see it coming and have plenty of time to rationally decide the best course of action without getting emotional like the guy in the post.

Another boundary is determining how others are allowed to talk to you. There are plenty of boundaries a man/leader should have. They are effective. It may sound idealistic to discuss boundaries, but realistically, having boundaries is effective, and a leader wants results.

Having a long fuse does not make you seem like a better man. Putting up with disrespect makes you less respectable. Having a short tolerance for others pushing against your boundaries and not reacting emotionally but instead having clear consequences is what makes a good leader.