I've seen No More Mr. Nice Guy! referenced here a few times, and since AWALT, and my marriage has imploded, I decided to hunker down into monk mode and take a serious look at myself and where my life is going. This meant rereading the sidebar and picking up a bunch of traditional Red Pill books, because, man, it's surprising what you forget when you get complacent, and I definitely put a lot of the blame for my failed marriage on myself, and I had known all about TRP for nearly a decade. I take this now as information and an opportunity to learn and grow out of destructive habits.
I was really surprised by how good this book is. I took 12 pages of notes and did many of the author's activities. I never really understood why I had become a nice guy. I thought it was something natural to me, and that's why I was a beta whiteknight, but now I think I know a little better. I wanted to share with you some of the key insights.
Nice guys usually didn't have a good relationship with their dads. That was me, because my father was emotionally absent. It was awkward to talk to him, I felt neglected, he would get angry super fast whenever we were doing man things together, like if I couldn't find the right tool, or if I forgot the name of a tool. This led me to be largely raised by my mother, and to seek my mother out for my problems, not my father. Also, mothers can't teach a boy how to become a man. Suffice to say, I had no idea how dysfunctional my family was or how that affected my development.
Doing things to please my mother always ended with my life messing up. The family dynamic was that my brother was autistic, so I had to be the good son my parents could be proud of and said and did things to please my parents. This led to me doing things to please others and never putting my own needs first. In NMMNG, a key aspect is to put your own needs first and create boundaries around those needs. It means you may have to have confrontation (a nice guys bane).
NMMNG also addresses sexual dysfunction. Nice guys aren't sexy, and they know it. This doesn't, however, negate their sexual needs. And so, this book talked about one thing that I had never heard anywhere else, and that is, healthy masturbation. Healthy masturbation is when you pleasure yourself but you don't fantasize and you don't look at pornography. What you are doing is tapping into your sexual self and learning to not feel shame and fear. This is one thing I think the NoFap community misses. In NoFap, masturbation is still seen as a shameful practice. It's damaging though, to see yourself as a sexual person being a bad thing, even if it's in the subconscious. To give an illustration, because I think it will help, I compulsively masturbated to porn for most of my post-puberty life. Marriage didn't change that, not even a little bit. It absolutely affected my sex life in negative ways. One of the things I couldn't get out of my mind was that sex, masturbation, sexuality, were all sinful things. I attended a fundamentalist church in my developing years and sex was an extremely taboo subject. It was seen as okay in marriage, but it was absolute utter sin outside of marriage and even sexual thoughts were sinful. Healthy masturbation was never discussed, never mentioned, no one ever said it was okay to be a sexual person (or, if they did, it was quickly contradicted by how sinful acting on thoughts was). A lot of nice guys have this sexual dysfunction of thinking sex is a bad thing, even if subconsciously. Healthy masturbation helps override these deeply imbued thoughts. I used to always get a low feeling after masturbating, like I did something wrong. If you are like this, then the next time you masturbate, don't fantasize and don't use porn. You will be amazed how you feel afterward, like you are permitting yourself to be a sexual person with needs and its okay.
NMMNG talks about the need to have male friends. I've had male friends in and out of my life and never knew the deeper benefits of having male friends. A lot of nice guys are loners, and I've been a loner more than I've been one of the crew. Other men help teach you how to be a man, but you can also hash things out with them without fear of losing sex (for obvious reasons). That's why you shouldn't pour your heart out to your girlfriend or wife, because there are dynamics to your relationship, such as sex, that you will fear losing, and could lose. Men will accept you, warts and all, and you will eventually regain your self confidence and get back to your self.
There were some other things, like covert contracts, where nice guys will do things for others and be a good guy but expect others to reciprocate without telling them.
I want to conclude now, and the conclusion is I feel like this book has laid a foundation. Reading a bunch of random Red Pill stuff over the years didn't seem to help me any, but reading this book made me realize specific things I can work on. It's not at all applicable to everyone here, but if you've ever had nice guy tendencies then you must read this book. I am finding it more helpful, like I said, foundation, than thinking of myself as a Beta who needs to become Alpha. Well, this book outlines how nice guys can make that transition, and it's certainly more in depth than "just lift" kind of advice.
P.S. no summary can do the book justice, you have to actually read the book. Ignore the stupid illustrated videos on youtube that attempt to summarize the book. This book is a workbook, not a quick and forgettable read.
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
I've never understood everybody's obsession with masturbation here.
I think nofap is a great way to blame your problems on something stupid instead of getting out there and accomplishing your goals. Masturbation isn't going to stop you from accomplishing your goals. People use the excuse as a crutch.
If you're masturbating 20 times a day to bdsm porn, your problem isn't masturbation.
This is the most meaningless thing I've ever read.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
I don't get it from a psychological point of view (porn is another issue - that shit rots your brain). But I found in college that I often couldn't cum from sex. I realized I was wacking off too much (too hard?) and my dick was getting used to the feel of my hand. So for me keeping masturbation down is entirely a physical thing, not mental.
TheStumblingWolf 5y ago
For me it was the porn, not the fapping. After laying off porn for a while I noticed a significant increase in drive and wanting to approach women and all that.
donkeydodo 5y ago
IMO, people who go NoFap and fix their lives is a bit like the people who find God in prison, becoming non-criminals; it's some sort of a placebo that works, a modus ponens argument - it's not only per se the quitting of masturbation that enables one to do whatever you manage to do when quitting masturbation, it's the mentality you've managed to build up for yourself.
Of course, masturbation COULD be affecting you negatively; masturbating 20 times a day to BDSM won't do good for your motivation, goals or dreams due to oxytocin release and (from what I've read) less testosterone, but masturbating 2 - 3 times / week won't affect that. For me personally, masturbation gives me clarity of thought - I can focus more on building myself and my own empire rather than following my erection to the closest meat clam. The times I've gone fully NoFap, I've started thinking with my dick more and for me that's something negative. Of course, I can't really blame the NoFap concept either; me thinking with my dick more due to NoFap has to do with my internal feelings and emotions and nothing else. What I SHOULD do, should be learning to control those without jacking my dick 2 - 3 times / week. However, I believe people should take one step at a time; I'll eventually learn to not think with my dick without masturbating, but mentally I'm not there yet because I have more things to attend to, and rather than having a mountain of "to do" things at the same time, I'll tend to them one at a time
majaka1234 5y ago
He's basically just proving how strong and independent he is as a new alpha male by parroting the exact point of views of the author of his new bible, I mean, self help book.
RPSilverfox 5y ago
I just skip the whole NoFap thing and go with semen retention. If you’re getting sex great, but otherwise there are many benefits of retaining, a few being increased energy for better results at the gym, more confidence for better results when approaching, and best of all better performance when you do pull that HB9 back to your place. There’s absolutely no reason to touch yourself.
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coopdawgX 5y ago
If you don't fantasize (if you call it that) and don't watch porn...how the hell are you going to get off?
Im not advocating yanking it 5x a week to August Ames (RIP) or Lana Rhodes, but there's really no harm if you're keeping your habit in check. You can masturbate to porn and still have the urge to game, and get aroused when you're about to get laid. the two aren't mutually exclusive.
You're horny and want to get off. that's natural. Porn helps. As long as you don't turn into a cuck who cares?
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Thinkingard 5y ago
A lot of us grew up in Christian households that made it feel like sin itself when you masturbate. Most of the time when men masturbate it's to porn or they fantasize about a woman. If you masturbate but keep your mind blank it's a different experience. You don't feel worthless or like a moral failure when you're done. This helps you overcome your subconscious feelings that it's morally wrong to pleasure yourself, and if it's morally wrong to pleasure yourself, you better believe you bring that into the bedroom.
reluctantly_red 5y ago
Why would anyone want to do it that way? Totally joyless -- no thanks!
Thinkingard 5y ago
Eh? I've done it a few times and it was anything but joyless. It is definitely an odd experience because you don't know what to think, but it does seem to be helping me overcome feelings of masturbation being an escape fantasy into women I want but don't strive to have. If I want to go ahead and masturbate, I will do so without shame, but I won't disassociate from my body and imagine myself somewhere else with someone else.
inSeason 5y ago
In Rollo Tomassi's book Positive Masculinity, Rollo opines, "deprivation is motivation" in relation to abstinence from internet pornography and masturbation. Eschewing masturbation is clearly a strong habit to increase desire for pro-social sexual behavior.
I would be careful to not underplay the biological effects of masturbation. There is a lot of research to show that Dopamine and Testosterone decreases sharply after orgasm. Invariably, this will lead to changes in behavior.
Your comment comes off as condescending and mocking, which weakens the overall strength of your statements. As you are a moderator and poster, you hold more sway than the average user, so I suggest you avoid such weakness in the future.
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
If you're literally unable to leave your basement because you can't stop jacking it- like I said, masturbation isn't your problem. Obsessive addictive personality disorder, perhaps.
But for most people, jacking it now and again isn't the cause of or solution to any of your problems.
And yeah, I'm mocking the all-or-nothing crowd. Because sometimes the spergs need a little jolt to wake up.
You can fap and go out and meet women, or you can not fap and go out and meet women. Using this behavior as an excuse is just that, making excuses.
I don't care if you decide personally to stop fapping. I really don't. But when you hinge your motivation (or delusion of it) on an activity like that as a proxy for success- it's easy to use falling off the wagon as an excuse for failure and then just go back to what you were doing.
All or nothing is the quickest way to burn out.
SoulRedemption 5y ago
Haha, someone finally called out on this masturbation shaming and no fap in here.
I see the downvotes. It is at times hard for people to understand that things arent black and white.
Trying to look at a root cause of something. "Masturbation is not good, go No Fap and you will progress!". Nope, No Fap doesnt make you more productive. "Masturbation is healthy, but you have to avoid porn, and follow these rules when doing it to make sure its okay". Nope, this wont help you magically become better. Procrastination and addictions are two root causes. You cant change that by fine tuning something without understanding where it is coming from.
But sometimes mental masturbation is enough for some people, oh well.
reluctantly_red 5y ago
Yeah! You would think this would be obvious -- but I guess not.
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
Imagine that a statement as obvious as "moderation is fine" is controversial on TRP. I think I bottomed out at -8 points earlier.
balalasaurus 5y ago
How is this even being downvoted? What ever happened to taking a minute to think?
donkeydodo 5y ago
Too many new people perhaps
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
The nofap crowd is just as religious and dedicated as the JP crowd. I think I hit -8 points there for a while.
iampattym 5y ago
I think NoFap works for the NoFap people because its all a part of maintaining a routine and good habits. They attach all their good habits together and then when they fail on one, they fail on all (hence them noticing negative side effects after a relapse).
So I feel like its part placebo and part of a symbol for a pact that they've made with themselves to be better.
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
This, and other platitude advice, is what children and boys who have no guts to face the truth come up with. It's abstraction on top of abstraction because looking at the problem analytically is too painful.
Stopping masturbation because of your failures is like taking a look at an awful bleeding wound on your leg and deciding the answer is simply to stop walking or moving around instead of take care of the wound.
You want something that's going to improve your life... well, the steps are already already here for the taking.
As a dude who has seen porn, I can safely say that this did not impede my desire to get real women. Nor was it an obstacle. If I turned to blaming it for my failures I'd probably still be alone. Jerkless and alone.
empatheticapathetic 5y ago
With all do respect man, your experience is not everyone else’s experience.
I had a serious porn addiction, had no experience with girls, and finally deciding to do nofap at 25 was the beginning of me starting to take control my life. It helped me build confidence in knowing I could stick to something and the physiological benefits helped me redirect my sexual energy towards actual women, letting the desire manifest and eventually start to override the shame I felt about myself pursuing women.
Whatever the problem specifically was, no fap was a positive step forward. Unfortunately I was still blue pill and thankfully soon found TRP to go from step 1 to step 2.
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
Right off the bat we've identified that the act of fapping isn't your problem. It's your self-control and addictive personality.
Of course quitting is the right solution for you if you were glued to your computer screen 18 hours a day jacking it.
But I said it once, and I'll say it again: Moderation is key. There is nothing inherently bad about masturbation.
empatheticapathetic 5y ago
Moderation is possible now, but to get out of that hole I just needed to know I was able to completely abstain if I had to, and honestly just achieving that lent its confidence to other situations in my life where I didn’t think I had the ability to commit. The significance was that it was the first situation I’ve had like that. And it’s only ever meant to be temporary (90 days).
clavabot 5y ago
Well fucking hell, if that doesn't describe me to a t
monsieurhire2 5y ago
The dude was raised in a fundamentalist Christian household, so these kinds of shame-based issues are common.
I wasn't, so I don't have that baggage. But I can imagine what it would be like.
iampattym 5y ago
Oh I agree that it’s not the solution, if anything it’s an indicator that you’ve made it (happy fulfilled people are too busy to jerk off anyway).
Using just NoFap won’t get you anywhere, but I think the sub is trying recently to encourage coupling with other positive behaviours namely lifting and waking up early.
I also think it’s personal and for some people might be a piece of the puzzle, but no ONE thing will ever actually greatly improve someone’s life. Even if it’s a placebo, I think NoFap pushes people in the right direction.
reluctantly_red 5y ago
BS! Happy and fulfilled people have the energy to bang one out in the shower every morning and another with the wife/SO/GF/FWB every night.
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
I disagree.
I disagree. Comfortable lies are still lies. Understanding that is what separates the boys from the men.
iampattym 5y ago
Yea I agree that NoFap is an extreme solution (I see it’s value if you actually have a masturbation problem, quitting cold turkey is always best way to rid yourself of a vice) but I see it’s place and think for some people it’s required.
As with everything, it’s moderation that matters. But some people can’t do moderation so cutting it out completely is the best option for them
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
I suspect that's why those who try to quit fapping are also the most likely to be trying to quit videogames as well.
Side Rant: I always laugh when I see a thread on here about quitting video games.
I think to myself, when was the last time a game good enough to get addicted came out?
Maybe it's because I have a busy life and no time, but I simply cannot get into a game these days, let alone end up addicted.
Most games have no actual game mechanism, instead relying on some shitty ass story to drive interest. I have yet to see one that the story is so compelling I want to sit there and grind for hours on end to see it unfold. If I want to watch a movie I'll do that.
The games that interest me are ones with strategy involved. Ones that you can improve on and fail. And frankly, aside from the early Sim City days or the good old RTS games, I haven't seen anything of the sort in a long, long time (aside from minecraft which was very engaging for a time).
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iampattym 5y ago
I know that I’m someone who’s not great with doing things in moderation and need a routine, so cutting out vices is in my best interest. Some I’ve cut out completely (like Twitter) and others I’ve just reduced.
And Yea last game I was HOOKED on was Skyrim. Mechanics aren’t great in that game either but I’m a fantasy nerd and love the world. Other than that the only game I play nowadays is MW2 when I go back to my parents place. I’ve always been afraid to try WOW because I’ve seen too many people get sucked in and I know I probably would too...
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SoulRedemption 5y ago
Your summary reminded me that I need to get back to this book. It really has some solid points which throws the nice guy into an uncomfortable, buy direly needed situation.
People call me a nice guys, until they see me get pissed. Then am just a dick, selfish and what not. What they actually mean is am a door mat. When I stop being one, it shakes their perception of me so they get pissed. This is not me tioned in the book but related. We all do it.
We hold certain people in high regard and out of nowehre they do something we disagree with or that we dont like. All of a sudden we feel let down, feel annoyed and see them in a bad light. Our values are based on our perception of them and filtered lense. Its ironic.
This happens with people when a nice guy tries to change and set boundaries. Truth is it may break certain relationships. But it is what it is.
Time to go pick that book up again. Some good points in your post, thanks buddy.
jonpe87 5y ago
learn to use the word "No" and you will see motives to not be nice ever!
omartrs 5y ago
Am I the only who here who find the book far from excellent?
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I mean, the message it conveys is true and important, but the way the book is structured and written is terrible. I've seen multiple posters here in TRP that have way better writing skills.
Thinkingard 5y ago
I won't deny that, but it didn't interfere with the message for me.
gabeangelo 5y ago
You should go and complement your reading with the book 'When I say no, I feel guilty'. No more mr. Nice guy is good, but this other one is a freaking bomb and a life changer!
Thinkingard 5y ago
Just downloaded it, thanks for the recommendation, never heard of this book but it does sound like a good supplement.
TheScarletScholar 5y ago
I think this is probably the best book to transition men to TRP. It gently eases in the topics without too much of an abrupt change that it causes cognitive dissonance.
iampattym 5y ago
I'm halfway through it myself rn and definitely agree that it really puts things in a different paradigm.
I don't think that I was ever the archetypal "nice guy" but I know that I did (and still do to some degree) share in some parts of their worldview. This book is great for "breaking free" and I agree, if the sidebar "makes sense" to you but isn't quite hitting the right notes, try this book out.
It's a short read, but not a quick process to work through, but you will see changes in your life relatively quickly.
whutyomamado 5y ago
Great write up very similar experience here growing up trying to please your parents trying to make them happy and putting your needs aside. I'm 26 and I still have my needs at the bottom of the list. I've read nmmng but I seem to fall back into my nice guy habits. My culture (asian) enforces beta behavior since you learn to talk.
I'm way better than before. But it's scary how ingrained this stuff is, that it's an automatic reaction to put others needs first.
I've always tried to please everyone and avoid conflict. I realize this. And I still catch myself accommodating unconsciously.
Duelist_Roger 5y ago
True. I can be asshole, but most of times I end up being too nice instead (Before somebody step on me, then I become asshole and there is a big surprise of other party).
And the relationship with my Dad was awful. It is so true. I am repairing It right now, but It is damn hard.Y know OP, like he kept bringing money but he was being absent as a Dad the whole life. Mother died at my early age so It affected me as well.
I'll take this book on my priority list. The Rational Male is the one I'm reading right now and It is decent as well.
It shows many TRP stuff, what you would rather not like to confront even after swallowing the pill. Like you "are" red piller, but deep inside the fucking bluepill seed is there and It eradicate this. At least I have this feeling/reflections after a mere few dozens of pages.
​
As example: Author was talking about the topic of "THE ONE" and even if I know It is bullshit, before reading it over and over again I didn't realise, that deep inside I would like It to be a true. So It is but one a sad fact. Even after swallowing the pill, there are various concept what need to be understand over and over again til the RED pill will overcome Blue completely.
jonpe87 5y ago
There is the one, the second, the third, the f...
Trenned_out 5y ago
We all have certain red pill concepts we can theoretically understand and grasp, but they never really "click" in the sense of truly changing our thought patterns until a real life experience hammers it home with some emotion tied to it.
In regards to your "the one" thing, I never believed there was just one person out there but I did get a similar feeling of that intense connection once can have in an LTR. I didn't think she was the only person in the world who could make me fall in love, yet that intense love attached me in a way where the thought of life without her was almost as scary as for a guy who though he could lose "the one." Throw the fact that I was red pill aware at the time on top of this, and you have alot of conflicting thoughts an emotions in my head. I was basically fighting with myself trying to shift my thought process too, yes this girl is great but you could find this again if need be.
​
Well fast forward, I'm no longer with this girl today and now actually having been through the rollercoaster of falling in and out of love, now I truly comprehend that there is no "the one." Once you truly get those emotional highs and lows, come out the other side, and are still standing. You see that yes, if you continue to be a high SMV man and strive to better yourself, you can eventually find a girl worthy of that again. Now if you'll want an LTR or not is another story, haha.
​
Hopefully my rant can be of some help to you in examining your own thought process about this.
Duelist_Roger 5y ago
It helped me for sure, thanks!
RightHandWolf 5y ago
Hmmm . . . .
The more I read through the threads (and I had been lurking for a while before signing up and posting) the more I realize how similar most of our stories seem to be.
My dad was absent a great deal of the time when I was growing up, since he worked for a large insurance company and would be off for seminars, conferences and meetings - all the better to climb that fabled and mythic corporate ladder. He did make the climb, but this meant a few transfers around the country while I was growing up.
We had lived in 3 different houses in two states by the time I started kindergarten. I attended two elementary schools, two junior high schools and one high school. Since I was always "the new kid" fitting in and making friends was kind of difficult. Even today, I have a double metric shit-ton of acquaintances but only a handful of friends, and I still feel like I'm on the outside looking in.
How do I cope? I focus on myself. I practice guitar, write lyrics, read a lot (about 1000-1200 pages a week) and I lift and do cardio 4 times a week. My game is being worked on, but I'm not really pursuing the n-count for its own sake - it's too much fun playing PsyWarOps and using their own weapons against them. I know some might want to burn me at the stake for daring to speak such BLASPHEMOUS thoughts aloud in the Temple of Poon, but this is my hardcore way of separating the wheat from the chaff - YMMV.
purplecabbage 5y ago
I'm all for healthy masturbation, as he outlines in the book, since it's better than the porn-addicted type. However, I think we should call a spade a spade: masturbation is the result of failing to attract women into your life.
Thinkingard 5y ago
It's exactly his point in the book that nice guys tend to have very poor sex lives, if they have any at all. The masturbation is not meant to be a substitute for sex, it's meant to learn to be comfortable with your sexual side, which many nice guys are not and don't know how to resolve that. But, what about masturbating regularly even after you have a wife who you have regular sex with? I was masturbating compulsively even when my wife was my gf and we had sexual contact every day. For nice guys, there is sexual dysfunction they need to overcome and this book was pretty good at pointing that out to me. There are other things in it about sex, but the masturbation bit stood out to me because it was the first time I had ever heard anyone talk about it in a positive way.
AceofRains 5y ago
Heh. Reminds me of my old oneitis. People would ask us all the time if we were together. Last time someone asked us that, she said, “Nah, he’s too nice.” Too nice...
I’m glad my life is far from there.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
as if that's a fucking compliment...
"Nah, she's too prude."
altiro15 5y ago
Yeah thats the world telling you “get your shit together”
I’ve been in those situations where i was referred as “i mean, he is a nice guy i guess” and it confused the fuck out of me.
AceofRains 5y ago
I was homeless, she was in no better position but with her parents. In my mind I was thinking, “we can start together and it can be beautiful.” When she said I was too nice I couldn’t understand how she couldn’t want someone who was nice. Very confusing. I work in a shop just behind her house growing up. Couldn’t give a fuck less about her existence today. I should thank her, because that was me chasing the white rabbit down the hole.
SilenceOnTheWire 5y ago
I don't know about your particular case but I know that in families with that kind of dynamic it's usually the mother who covertly sabotages the relationship between the father and the son by making them compete for her attention. The son can't do much and grows up without a male role model because the dad is too afraid of being replaced by the son and sees him as a barrier.
So you get nice guys who don't even like women all that much but grow up not liking or trusting men and masculinity, which is understandable. Then you get male feminists and the matriarchy, and a lot of nice guys who either genuinely believe women are the solution and nice sensitive creatures who can do no harm, or if they see them for what they are, believe they are somehow in control (they aren't) and that women are dumber than them.
​
?
Thinkingard 5y ago
You might have to read the book to get the whole part about healthy masturbation. It may not apply to you but it sure as hell applied to me.
SilenceOnTheWire 5y ago
I will take a look. I never think about anything when I masturbate anyway, porn and fantasies never did anything for me, if anything they just distract me. Also I'm not religious and never been ashamed of these things. If the OP is it would make sense why he'd feel better.
Trenned_out 5y ago
The male friends thing really spoke to me. I'm 26 and lived in 3 different states in my "adult" life. I have friends who are truly some alpha, red pilled, intelligent, self aware and caring guys who I can confide in. We have helped each other talk through and process a lot of big life events. However, I don't live anywhere near them and see them roughly 2 times a year. Now in my own life journey, moving back to the area where most live, wouldn't make me happy and would stifle my personal and professional growth. We stay in fairly frequent contact texting but it still makes me wish that I could find this level of healthy male friendship again in a new place. I've made lots of "friends" but not nearly of the same level.
I suppose this all takes more time, both to find people in a newer place and to form that bond of friendship. But if any older posts who have moved around a bit have any thoughts or advice I'd like to hear it.
SuuperLoud 5y ago
Which NMMNG are u referring to? There are multiple authors on amazon with this title
Thinkingard 5y ago
Hmm, I didn't know that. I read the one by Robert Glover
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embracingtheredpill 5y ago
Thank you for your thoughts.
[deleted] 5y ago
Been thinking about giving this a go for a while now. Thanks for your post.
ScribeThoth 5y ago
This book is not generally well liked by the “punch anybody who offends me, because I’m alpha” wing of TRP.
MobleUserNameMu 5y ago
Marriages fail because the captain (you) let the deck hand Gilligan (the female) run the ship.
Thinkingard 5y ago
Absolutely and it is often too late to do anything to salvage it but you never know. Gotta approach the future with a different mindset.
massivewang 5y ago
The book changed my life. My biggest takeaways were:
BlkLeatherCouchActor 5y ago
Biggest takeaway for me. People started to get pissed off at me because of this. In previous days I would have backed off.
the99percent1 5y ago
I feel like I'm on the borderline nice guy. I.e. i treat everyone with respect, until they do something to lose it.
I never had a good relationship with my parents, either one. So I'm not sure why nice guys don't get along with their dads. I think most alphas also didnt have a fatherly figure.
Masturbation for me has always been a release. Either I get sex or once a week, I release it through the best porn material I can find. You make it sound like meditation.. how do you masturbate without fantasizing or watching porn? Wtf is this Buddha? Jeez.. stop over analysing it.
Masturbation gets bad when it starts to affect your life, interfere with achieving your mission and becomes your default release mechanism in your life. When that happens, you need to cut it down and start improving on yourself first..
As for being a loner? I have a small inner circle of 5 male friends that I can count on and willingly give up my life for. I also have a group of friends who I formed a business with. Another group of friends who I play soccer with & another group who I go mountain biking with.
Bottom line is, males bond over mutual activities. The more male friends you have depends on how active your lifestyle is.
truecrisis 5y ago
Did you read the book? The "nice guy" is a person who was raised by the mother. Their subconcious sees reward in getting a female "atta boy" instead of a male "atta boy". Thus, the nice guy will have a covert contract with women to do something nice in exchange for reward.
The nice guy will buy a drink as a downpayment for attention or companionship.
Going_Black_Hat 5y ago
When you're ready to jump leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else on here, read "King Warrior Magician Lover"
HappyScribe 5y ago
If I ever have blue pill friends, I never mention the Red Pill. Instead I give them a copy of that book.
MonkeyMajik25 5y ago
Is it bad if I just keep TRP by myself and not mention it to my friends? Like what TRM states, that only those who are willing to find the truth are given these informations. Am I being selfish bc this gives me the upper hand when it comes to gender relationships?
Imperator_Red 5y ago
Not only is it not bad, it's the first rule of Fight Club. It has nothing to do with giving yourself an upper hand though and everything to do with protecting yourself from expressing socially unacceptable ideas.
If you could theoretically red pill someone with zero social risk you should absolutely do it. You aren't going to personally make a dent in the vast sea of the blue pill population so it's not like it's going to cut into your ability to get pussy.
ogkushinjapan 5y ago
I used to try to be Captain Save A Bro a lot earlier in college. Got burned more in the end so I just casually mention toned down TRP advice every now and then.
ogkushinjapan 5y ago
I find however as men age many do somewhat realize the gyncocentric laws. Most guys under 21 in college are hopeless for now.
BusterVadge 5y ago
No. I never talk about RP with my friends unless they bring up something that's tangential to RP. Even then, I don't ever mention the words "Red Pill".
Red Pill is for you, not for everyone else. It's inherently self-centered and that's good! It's not the gospel and it doesn't need to be spread.
WalterEArmstrong 5y ago
It's not your responsibility to rescue others.
Ramp_Up_Then_Dump 5y ago
Not because you are selfish. If they wont find by themselfs, trp doesnt works as intended. My friend became MGTOW after a bluepilled LDR.
HappyScribe 5y ago
I think when the time is right, the Red Pill finds you. No, you shouldn't mention TRP to your friends - they will hate you for it. However, if you have to point them in the right direction, NNMNG is an ideal start. I gave it to my dad after he finally divorced my mom, I don't regret it.
sorryforthelifestory 5y ago
Except that's just not true. Most people just randomly stumbled upon here and for every person who is helped there are a lot more who just remain confused and sad.
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AlexDr0ps 5y ago
That's exactly what you should do. Offer them a copy of Rational Male at most.
You can't make someone want to unplug
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DrMrJrSr 5y ago
Wait, were you trying to unplug a woman?
warlordchad 5y ago
Agree. And unfortunately, if you talk about some of this people will become furious. People don't like the notion they're being lied to on a regular basis. Remember the reference point: Morpheus offers Neo the option, because he knows most people will take the blue pill. He also knows that Neo, if he is the One, will want to see, "how deep the rabbit hole goes."
ChesterRickman 5y ago
I really don't understand how can so many men reject the idea of even just reading the red pill materials, considering they know about it. Everyone constantly bitches that their relationships/dating lifes suck, then why the hell aren't you trying to learn something new that might fix your shit
majani 5y ago
Childhood indoctrination is the strongest psychological force of them all.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
I won't read the communist manifesto or other works that I know are false. They feel the same about us.
yungassed 5y ago
That is actually a terrible attitude. You should read the communist manifesto and critical theory in general for multiple reasons, if only to know what a large percentage of the population believes. The idea isn't actually false, it's just an incredibly simplistic and naive ideology . People who say it looks good on paper but bad in real life are also retarded. IMO, it doesnt even look good on paper. I can understand the rationale of the author and how he got to the conclusion he did but he is being wilfully ignorant of so many other factors that to much it looks just as awful on paper. It's like the same as US drug policy saying drugs are bad so let's ban all of them.
I did the same thing about the flat earth theory and came out the better for it. First you hear about flat earth and think its obviously ridiculous, but then I thought to myself, if a child asked me how we proved the earth was round, I would struggle to give a strong answer other than using pi to accurately measure the size of the earth. That lead me into a journey of taking the time to learn about flat earth theory, find the flaws in the arguement and have a better understanding of scientific philosophy and practise in general.
Side note: the general conclusion I got about flat earthers were that the majority of them are Christian raised losers with a victim mentality wanting to feel special. They use this theory to feel like they are in the know and that the reason everyone else is more successful is because they are round earth shills being paid off. A good way I've found to try get them to snap out is to have try explain the motivation of why anyone cares to even have a conspiracy about this, as in what benefit does it actually provide them.
Imperator_Red 5y ago
I can see your argument for reading the communist manifesto, just to understand the enemy, but I just can't see what I'm going to learn from it. I already know what they believe, and that their entire ideology is based on a single concept that makes no sense - namely that human beings are not ants and will not be motivated to work for the collective, only themselves and their families.
yungassed 5y ago
What you will learn is that most people who follow a communist ideology have never even read a page of it themselves. The easiest way to disarm their entire arguement is from the source content itself, are they are completely at a loss when you tell them what you said is from the manifesto. One key thing all these groups painfully fail to realize (due to having never read it themselves) is that Marx actually said the systemic will arise organically out of sheer necessity over time (he thought via industrialization but really it will be from automatization). All these groups are trying to force the system to occur prematurely before the technology is even there to support it which it is why it will always fail in implementation. They are just mindless parrots repeating what their ideologues told them with no critical thinking skills of their own.
Chrisl19 5y ago
Because change is hard. I have been reading the Red Pill on and off for 5 years now, and still I consider myself to be Blue Pill. It's nice knowing the things taught here though, but like I said I just can't bring myself to change my lifestyle, I've been living this way for 29 years now and I have absolutely no discipline to change my shitty habits. The only thing I can really say it has helped me with though, is I no longer blame anyone but myself for the life I am living.
SmokinGrunts 5y ago
Don't keep waiting man. Now is the time to make some sort of change. Working on something until it becomes habit and part of your normal routine just takes repetition. It's your life, man - don't delay.
SoulRedemption 5y ago
Forget everything else, focus on building discipline. This key aspect will automatically change alot of things for you. This is the foundation that you will build rest up on. Mix discpiline in with SMART(acronym) goals.
TheBunk_TB 5y ago
I had to make changes myself. I was "sick" after I found out/considered many of the RP ideas/fundamentals. Its a process. Its hard but its your struggle
DerudOnlyone 5y ago
That's nice but reading isn't effortless and nowadays much less likely to happen
SmamelessMe 5y ago
It's been a while, so I will do my best to recollect my impressions of the book.
I agree with the premise of the book: Being overly selfless does not work.
I disagree with some of the ideas of the book. Such as: "covert contracts", and selflessness being bad.
My summary of the book is:
You have been conditioned to think that selflessness is good (correct), and that if other people are not reciprocating, your are not being selfless enough, and need to double down-on your selflessness (incorrect).
The book is great at showing you that you should not waste time on people who do not reciprocate your selflessness and take advantage of you.
The book goes overboard with this idea of "covert contract". The idea that you should not cooperate with other people, by being the first on who does something "for" the other party, because it somehow implies you expect a "covert contract" is not only wrong, it is insulting. Humans are social creatures. We cooperate. Those who succeed are those with capable social network of reciprocal relationship. The key take-away should not be to hate yourself for attempting to help others, and expecting reciprocation in return. It should be (and admittedly is), that you will not get reciprocation from someone who is not reciprocating your kindness already, by doubling-down on your kindness and selflessness.
Also, you can't kindness your way into a romantic relationship.
Also, you can't respect your way into a romantic relationship.
Ideally, especially if you're looking for LTR, both are needed, but alone they are not sufficient.
Overall, a good read I would strongly recommend. Beware of some of its less useful ideas.
daymi 5y ago
That's not exactly what he is saying. Nice guys are terrified of asking for something. Therefore, they will do all kind of things in the hope of getting something they need without asking for it. Then when the need inevitably doesn't get fulfilled they get all pissed why the other party didn't--as if the other party could read their mind.
It's a female tactic, but nice guys learnt it well.
Yes, but the reciprocity, if any, has to be made clear beforehand, with words. "Can you help me with my rusty engine compartment hinge?" "Sure thing, is us putting up the ceiling tiles in my room next week still on?" It's not difficult, yet so few people do it--and none of the nice guys.
I agree.
That's definitely a bad thing to expect for no reason.
SmamelessMe 5y ago
I think this summarizes well the part on which we disagree.
Don't get me wrong. I'm fine with doing random acts of kindness for which I do not expect anything in return. But if we're to be friends, and you want me to be out there for you, I expect you to be out there for me. Otherwise you're just a mooch.
daymi 5y ago
I agree, but demanding it verbally is necessary. At least I was phenomenally bad doing that in the past. I now pretty much say a version of your latest sentences to friends - and it works out fine. Once is enough, but many don't even say it once (in fact they try to imply the opposite as much as possible).
SmamelessMe 5y ago
I think we're on the same page here, with the reservation that I found there is plenty of people, who get this, without asking. And the older the other person is, the more likely it is they understand this. I found it easier to concentrate my efforts on those that get it without me asking.
But if I can re-phrase my post better: the critical point of NMMNG is for the reader to learn that not everybody is like that. And it is ok to ask for reciprocation.
TheBunk_TB 5y ago
Use the Bruce Lee philosophy: Use what works, throw out what doesn't.
SmokinGrunts 5y ago
Hell yeah. I've heard it as "take what you need and leave the rest." Everything I've taken from TRP has so far only benefited me.
matrixpush 5y ago
For all the hate that PC-liberal culture gets, it's forgotten that conservatism isn't good for men either. This book explains that.
BinRAXX47 5y ago
Would you say its a good book to read >!going into marriage? !<
redpillschool Admin 5y ago
But you know better than to do that.
donkeydodo 5y ago
I would say that you shouldn't go into a marriage, reading the book or nah. A marriage is essentially a trap for men; if you truly "love" a woman, your display of love should be enough to keep the relationship going - you shouldn't have to marry someone to prove your love to them.
And yes, if you DO fall for the trap, the book will help you
iampattym 5y ago
Yes.
A lot of his examples from his clinical work involve married guys, many of whom were recommended therapy by their wives.
If you follow the book and do the "breaking free" exercises then you will change, so I'd talk to your fiancé about it, he even recommends couples reading the book together
Thinkingard 5y ago
Of course. If anything, it will help you maintain frame as you will have a much better of grasp of what frame is and when your frame is faltering.
MarcosDomingues 5y ago
The only thing that will change after you get married is that you'll never be able to walk away. Also, your LTR will blow up in weight
linkofinsanity19 5y ago
I see no reason to willingly sign any papers that legally bind me to any woman.
B_llCl_nton_sARap_st 5y ago
If you know you're going to crash your car, you might as well brush up on emergency evasive procedures.
legitniga 5y ago
Cancel the engagement brother, you’ll thank us one day.
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